1 Great.  Thanks, GOP, for lacking the stones to push Craig out of office.

2
Damn it's gonna be a long 8 years.

I don't even know why they're bothering with this ploy at all.  Once the Dems have even more airtight majorities in the upper and lower chambers come election time they are gonna pass some big time amnesty shit anyways.

3 It's gonna pass eventually you know. We can't stop them, we can only hope to delay them, for a while. They're damned determine to destroy the country piece by piece while packing their pockets with our money and the only thing that will stop them is armed revolt or some horrendous catastrophe. Every republic ends this way.

4 CT:  just hurry the process up and kill yourself, you fucking idiot.

5

Ughh. They're just never going to stop.

Of course they. When President Maverick makes them citizens, we'll no longer have this illegal immigrant problem. Just one big, happy family with an abuser for a father.

6 CT:  just hurry the process up and kill yourself, you fucking idiot.

Dude...?

7 Thank God the GOP would never nominate someone who supports this.

Oh, right. Never mind.

8 Meanwhile, the Dems are out there lamenting the rising unemployment rates and stagnant wages.

I guess it's okay to allow the illegals to steal jobs and pay them low wages...if they're picking fruit.

9 Sessions is going about it all wrong. He needs to say that Americans need those jobs and corporations must start paying fair wages for the labor.

Sessions is playing right into the Dems hands by talking about "deporting them" and "keeping them out."

10

“This amendment provides a consistent, stable workforce for an industry that depends almost exclusively on undocumented labor - agriculture

Yeah, because God forbid all the fat fucks in this country that are on welfare be asked to pick some fucking fruit in exchange for that check.

How about we bus all the unemployed residents in Detroit out to some Iowa farms and get them working? 

 

 

 

11

I can see now how a goddamn wall would have solved all our problems. It's all falling into place for me now.

12 How about we bus all the unemployed residents in Detroit out to some Iowa farms and get them working?

Interesting choice of cities to from which to conscript and "bus" field workers.  Surely Iowa has it's own unemployed citizens at hand.  What a slimy little fuck you are.

13

Idiot. Detroits unemployment rate is over 9%. Iowa's about 3 1/2%.

Idiot.

14

Interesting choice of cities to from which to conscript and "bus" field workers.  Surely Iowa has it's own unemployed citizens at hand.  What a slimy little fuck you are.

Yeah.  Especially since everyone in Detroit is going to be too drunk, fat or coked out to pick crops.  What was he thinking?

15

“This amendment provides a consistent, stable workforce for an industry that depends almost exclusively on undocumented labor - agriculture"

IOW, we subsidize their illegally begotten profits, so they can pass on further contributions to our 'representatives.'

Corrupt fucks.

16 "Dude...?"

If you really believe the "we're all doomed" defeatist BS, have the balls to live it.

Or shall I say, in the old Usenet style:  "Imminent death of the US predicted.  Film at 11."

17 Ah, good, it had been almost a whole day without a reminder of why I can't stand John McCain.

18 I'm not particularly bothered by the details of the amendment other than the five year period. Two years would be acceptable now with one year or seasonal in the future. Our food is cheep because we dump subsidies into Ag and allow them to use cheep and illegal labor. So I'm fine having that group temporarily protected.

That said, it doesn't belong in this bill and should be thrown out with due prejudice.

19

Whimper.  Not Wide Stance again. 

IOW, we subsidize their illegally begotten profits, so they can pass on further contributions to our 'representatives.'

Corrupt fucks.

Posted by: MlR at May 20, 2008 04:39 PM (N7h3D)

Well, looking at the farm bill, they do get a good return on their investment. 

20 Yeah.  Especially since everyone in Detroit is going to be too drunk, fat or coked out to pick crops.  What was he thinking?

Posted by: Hollowpoint at May 20, 2008 04:35 PM (rf03a)

Chortle. 

21

Simple answers are not available.  The right answer is allow them in but provide no taxpayer funded subsidies or benefits to guest workers but only to citizens and to insure they're in the country for no more than 8 months a year with no right of birth citizenship. 

It makes too much sense to ever pass our federal congress.

I lived in Mexico for nine years and had no access to even their limited citizen benefits. Is there something wrong with equal rights between nations?

22

Surely Iowa has it's own unemployed citizens at hand.. 

Surely they do, but not as many as Detroit.  And I was referencing the need for farm labor, since that's what the justification is for letting illegals stay.  Are there any farms in Detroit?

No.  No, there are not.

Let's see if you can follow along:

Detroit = very high unemployment

Iowa = farms that, according to amnesty lovers desperately need labor

Solution = move the unemployed labor to the farms that need labor

There will be a make up quiz tomorrow.

Thursday we'll cover anger management.

 

 

 

 

23 How about we have all the  groups that lurv's them some cheap illegal immigrant labor compete against it , like a lot of us do. Ship in some illegals to run academia, congress, wall street,teachers unions,lawyers, all the usual suspects.
Hell , an elementary school teacher from Mexico would probably work for 18,000 a yr. with no benefits. How about a lawyer that charges 40 bucks an hr., a stockbroker for 20,000 a year.
Why should the construction industry have all the fun. Think of what it would save us in taxes every year.I bet we could slash my counties budget by at least 60%.There's no need to just hammer the blue collar workers when we could import 3rd. grade math teachers from Venezuela or nurses from the Phillipines.

 Come on Congress show some solidarity with your third world comrades.

24 It isn't over until the illegal alien wins.

Nice touch tacking the Ag amnesty (and yes, it will transmogrify to an amnesty) on to the emergency military funding bill. Now if you vote against it, you clearly Hate The Troops^TM. I can see it now. Every POS legislation from now on will be tacked on to emergency war funding bills. It's the new carte blanche of Congress.

Government, especially locally, has been doing this forever. You want your fire department operational? Your potholes filled? Your debris collected? Well, you're going to have to accept funding the Pornographic Art and Vomitorium Center along with city services monies. The Feds are just especially egregious now.

Also, despite the blossoming of the bill's price tag and scope, Bush very likely won't veto it. This particular amendment is one he would welcome. The military necessity of it would provide cover as would the bipartisan Congress that passed it. Plus, he's not up for reelection.

25 So the people who can't keep a job for $8 an hour at the Blockbuster in Detroit are going to move to Iowa and work the fields for $6 an hour? Whatevah.

Fruit picking is one of those jobs that Americans actually won't do. Maybe if we had a boutique ag industry we could rely on vagabonds, students, and backpackers but unless we want to export ag production then we do need immigrant labor in the fields.

26 I always suspected the reason reb was a McCainiac was because he agreed with Amnesty.

Personally, I think it's worth another couple of bucks in grocery bills to preserve our national sovereignty. The lower wages paid to illegal farm-workers are, in fact, subsidized by illegal alien access to our education, health, and welfare systems, paid for by American citizens.

The Japanese have the right idea... automate those jobs, build robots. The technology is there, it just takes removing the artificial subsidies on illegal immigrant labor.

27

Fruit picking is one of those jobs that Americans actually won't do.

I will pick all your fruit for $25/hr, cash.

28 No.27....What he said.

29

As a student I made extra cash picking the potato crop in my home state.  There's a real trick to the technique, you gotta stradle the row and bend at the knees a little.

30

Warden - #22,

I agree with most of your argument.  However, Iowa (which is actually an acronym for "Idiots Out Wandering Around") is the wrong target state.  Farming in the Midwest and Plains is capital rather than labor intensive.  Take them from Detroit and send them to California or southern Texas or somewhere like that.

Keep up the good work!

NP

 

31 runninreb, it's not that they can't keep a job, it's that welfare pays better than that lousy job.  Change that equation, and there will be enough Americans to do this work.

32

"I've never been particularly incensed about temporary guest worker measures. I suppose it's a "reward for law-breaking," but it's not granting citizenship for lawbreaking."

Guests have to be invited, and I didn't send out any fucking invitations. That's the whole goddamned problem. They invited themselves across the border and to our health care system, welfare, and benefits they have not earned.  Temporary, my ass.

33 Not ag work, funky. You'd have to pay Americans $25 bucks an hour like above to get people to move to Iowa to do hard labor. That doesn't mean food prices would go up a smidge more as the nativist V the K says. It would mean that our ag industry would go overseas for everything besides organic and other boutique crops, the average food expense would go waaaaay up, and the produce would suck balls.  There simple aren't enough vagabonds to service our farms.

No, we need a temporary immigrant workforce in the ag industry.

34 Nah.  Make that welfare check contingent on hopping a bus and picking some crops, and you've got all the low skilled labor you need.

Admittedly, this is a pipe dream in a culture that thinks attaching any stipulation to receiving government welfare is inhumane.

Personally, I'd make all welfare contingent upon reporting to a drug and alcohol-free work camp.  You work 8 hours a day like the rest of America, get 3 squares a day, child care is provided for as well as schooling during the day for the kids and at night for the adults.  Doors are locked at 10pm  No one comes in after that. 

I know, I know....I'm a scumbag for expecting people to earn their keep.  Why, it's downright unAmerican to restrict the freedoms of those who live off the hard work of their fellow citizens.

35 Just to clarify though, V the K, are you in favor of deporting or otherwise forcing all illegals out?

36 We don't have to deport them. Cut off the supply of jobs and welfare and they'll deport themselves. It's working in Arizona and Oklahoma.

If growers can no longer get slave labor, they'll have to automate or pay Americans decent wages. We're smart enough to automate crop production, just like we're smart enough to extract oil from ANWR without damaging the environment, contrary to the beliefs of certain geezers.

37

yup, its working great, freeways are open a lot now.

Call them now, amnesty for these invaders is like giving free out of jail to the raping murderous scum......

They are trying to head off the local efforts before the people wake up

38 Make that welfare check contingent on hopping a bus and picking some crops, and you've got all the low skilled labor you need.

Admittedly, this is a pipe dream in a culture that thinks attaching any stipulation to receiving government welfare is inhumane.

Personally, I'd make all welfare contingent upon reporting to a drug and alcohol-free work camp. You work 8 hours a day like the rest of America, get 3 squares a day, child care is provided for as well as schooling during the day for the kids and at night for the adults. Doors are locked at 10pm No one comes in after that.

I know, I know....I'm a scumbag for expecting people to earn their keep. Why, it's downright unAmerican to restrict the freedoms of those who live off the hard work of their fellow citizens.
Posted by: Warden at May 20, 2008 06:59 PM (QoR4a)

Warden for POTUS.

39 I've picked strawberries, and tulip bulbs, hayed, and pea-vined. I'm about as white as they come. I started in 7th grade, my wife did too. Can't say that it hurt me any.

And runninrebel, I favor deporting ALL illegals, I'm not interested in any bullshit excuses. If there will be tough times involved as a result, let's get it done now. We're killing ourselves by putting it off.

40 CT: just hurry the process up and kill yourself, you fucking idiot.

I suggest less caffeine in your life.

41 V the K,

Obviously you aren't serious in thinking we can automate our ag industry to the point of not needing cheap labor since you use Japan as an example. And obviously even if that were possible you would surely understand that it would be so expensive that food costs would skyrocket anyway. So, why don't we just deal with..."or pay Americans decent wages."

Which is really what you are expecting, no? A big increase in food costs for everybody? Just so you can rest assure that there aren't platoons of the "invading army" left over, right?

So what would the wages have to be to get Americans to stop what there doing and become migrant farm workers?

42

 So what would the wages have to be to get Americans to stop what there doing and become migrant farm workers?

$25/hr cash and I'm there, except for chopping cotton, been there done that, and I'll pay to be excused. 

Travel, fresh air, gardening.  It sounds like retirement. 

43 I think you've made your position clear, reb. You support amnesty because it gives you cheap exploitable labor (subsidized by taxpayers government health, education, housing, and welfare benefits). You think saving a few cents on your groceries is worth the higher taxes, worth the trauma centers that have to close, worth "Press 1 for English," worth the people who get killed by drunk-driving illegal aliens, worth the MS-13 gangs, and worth importing millions of socialist-oriented voters who will ensure liberal democrat majorities. Your passionate support of John McCain is now understandable.

44 Typical nativist response. Don't address the question. Just appeal to emotion and hyperbole.

45 And... rr shows his true colors.  Is he docweasel in disguise?

46 How's that, someone? V the K is a nativist if there ever was one.

47 Nativist:  A word used by amnesty supporters to describe anyone who wants the borders secured and immigration laws enforced.

48 That's right, V the K. Avoid the issue and retreat to victimhood. Just like always.

49 ACTS OF TREASON THEY SHOULD BE PUT ON TRIAL FOR TREASON I HOPE THEY GET VOTED OUT OF OFFICE THIS REALY RUFFLES MY FEATHERS SQUAWK SQUAWK SQUAWK

50

Don't we have a Department of Agriculture, and believe it or not, a Department of Labor?  What the fuck do these people have to say? Anything?

Are Feinstein and Craig assuming new roles in the Executive Branch?

51

runninrebel,

Title 8 of the  U.S. Code :

US law on illegal entry:

US Code Title 8 Section 1325.

(a) Improper time or place; avoidance of examination or inspection; Misrepresentation and concealment of facts:
Any alien who (1) enters or attempts to enter the United States at any time or place other than as designated by immigration officers, or (2) eludes examination or inspection by immigration officers, or (3) attempts to enter or obtains entry to the United States by a willfully false or misleading representation or the
willful concealment of a material fact, shall, for the first commission of any such offense, be fined under title 18 or imprisoned not more than 6 months, or both, and, for a subsequent commission of any such offense, be fined under title 18, or imprisoned not more than 2 years, or both. Any alien who is apprehended while entering (or attempting to enter) the United States at a time or place other than as designated by immigration officers shall be subject to a civil penalty of -
(1) at least $50 and not more than $250 for each such entry (or attempted entry); or (2) twice the amount specified in paragraph (1) in the case of an alien who has been previously subject to a civil penalty under this subsection.
Civil penalties under this subsection are in addition to, and not in lieu of, any criminal or other civil penalties that may be imposed.

Federal Law regarding the hiring of illegals:

Section 274 felonies under the federal Immigration and Nationality Act, INA 274A(a)(1)(A): “A person (including a group of persons, business, organization, or local government) commits a federal felony when she or he:
Assists an illegal alien s/he should reasonably know is illegally in the U.S. or who lacks employment authorization, by transporting, sheltering, or assisting him or her to obtain employment, or encourages that illegal alien to remain in the U.S. by referring him or her to an employer or by acting as employer or agent for an employer in any way, or knowingly assists illegal aliens due to personal convictions. Penalties upon conviction include criminal fines, imprisonment, and forfeiture of vehicles and real property used to commit the crime. Anyone employing or contracting with an illegal alien without verifying his or her work authorization status is guilty of a misdemeanor. Aliens and employers violating immigration laws are subject to arrest, detention, and seizure of their vehicles or property. In addition, individuals or entities who engage in racketeering enterprises that commit (or conspire to commit) immigration-related felonies are subject to private civil suits for treble damages and injunctive relief.”

Those who aid and abet:
Federal Immigration and Nationality Act
Section 8 USC 1324(a)(1)(A)(iv)( b )(iii)

Which states, in part,
“Any person who . . . encourages or induces an illegal alien to . . . reside . . . knowing or in reckless disregard of the fact that such . . . residence is . . . in violation of law, shall be punished as provided . . . for each illegal alien in respect to whom such a violation occurs . . . fined under title 18 . . . imprisoned not more than 5 years, or both.”
“It is a violation of law for any person to conceal, harbor, or shield from detection in any place, including any building or means of transportation, any alien who is in the United States in violation of law. Harboring means any conduct that tends to substantially facilitate an alien to remain in the U.S. illegally. This provision includes harboring an alien who entered the U.S. legally but has since lost his legal status.”

It's the LAW, not hyperbole, sweetpea.

52 Yeah, I'm aware of the law, sfcmac. Thanks though. But we're talking about a hypothetical temporary work program for the ag industry here. Which would in fact be another, you know, law. At least I was. V the K is railing against the invading hoards again, and how any mention of a deviation from a policy of total deportation is "amnesty" ( a WORD that will apparently suffice as an argument for a certain group of people) which will, of course, insure the demise of the empire. Or something like that.

53

runninrebel,

Honey, we ARE being invaded. Have you actually been to the Southwest, in particular, or seen the films of illegals traipsing across the border by the thousands. They just walk across, because no one stops them. 

To suggest that they "do jobs others won't" is patently false. Employers hire their labor because it's cheap and they have, until now, gotten away with it.

In adition, these illegals have no intention of assimilating into American culture or learning English as part of becoming a citizen.

Along with the "hard working" illegals, we've absorbed the dredges of society from Mexico and Central and South America; rapists, pedophiles,thieves, and other assorted felons.

Title 8 is finally being enforced, and it's about time.

The problem with your "hypothetical temporary work program for the ag industry" is that it rewards illegal aliens for being here in the first place, and let's the employers off with a free pass for breaking the law.

I'm all for deportation. As they are caught, kick their asses back across the border, and shut the door behind them. If they want back in, let them knock.

54 I've quoted you and linked to you here.

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