1 We'll see if anyone else does their reportorial job and troubles the Messiah with such questions.

Surely, you jest.

(and no, I am not calling you Shirley....)

2 Root cause of Hamas and Hezbollah: the existence of Israel.  Claims: Israel must be exterminated.

Yeah, I can see lots of common ground there, and plenty of leeway for negotiation.  Perhaps we can get them to agree to only exterminate half of the Jooooos.  Bet Jimmy Carter would consider that a very promising beginning.  Reverend Wright can assist, along with Samantha Power.

3 This is another example of how MSM Obama love is going to hurt him inadvertently. This isn't the sort of thing that can be covered up by the press. There isn't "context" that can make his statements seem okay. And continuing to "help" him discredits the MSM in the eyes of more and more people.

More please.

4 Whatever the "root causes" are, I'm sure that a really well-organized midnight basketball league can solve them.   Surely the U.S. navy could sell just one super-carrier and use the proceeds to build a string of half-courts across the Middle East?

5 This focusing on my words and positions is simply a distraction from the real issues facing America.  Quite frankly some might even say it's racist.

6 Obamamessiah references the legitimate claims of Hamam and Hezbollah. Those claims call for the extermination of the Jews and the Destruction of Israel. Sounds like to me anti-Semite can be added to his list of motivations. Nice guy there, Barry.

7 None of this matters. The wheels are in motion, he has successfully created a movement, he will be the next president.

The R party has successfully shot itself in the foot and is limping into the woods for the next few years.

8 This focusing on my words and positions is simply a distraction from the real issues facing America.  Quite frankly some might even say it's racist.

Let's not mince words here, Barry.  It IS racist.  I mean, OF COURSE it is racist!  It is mostly certainly the most vile kind of racism one can find anywhere.  Why the very idea of using someone's words to illustrate their points is the kind of bitter, odious, racism one might find in some of the most hideous parts of America.  You know, like at Trinity Church.

9 He's from Chicago.  He will ban rockets in the Gaza strip.

10 Root cause of Hamas and Hezbollah: the existence of Israel.  Claims: Israel must be exterminated.

You beat me to it.

And they ain't none to happy that we exist either.

11 This is too much even for me. Obama is simply not a serious or credible candidate. I am voting for McCain.

12

As has been pointed out above, Hamas will openly and explicitly tell anyone who cares to know that the "root cause" of their terrorism is the existence of Israel.  When they are not using this polite diplomatic language they will substitute "Jews" for "Israel."  I'm open to hearing Obama's suggestion for addressing these root causes.

I like to make this analogy:  The people who bomb abortion clinics make it very clear that legal abortion is the root cause of their terrorism.  In this case, no one on the Left is interested in "adressing the root cause," by banning abortion or making some kind of compromise with the bombers.  When it comes to terrorism against abortion providers, the Left seems to "get it" that the solution is to take out the terrorists.  Why can't they follow the same logic when Israel is the target?

 

 

13

I think it's a good thing the liberals are letting him act all Presidential and stuff.

It's in-line with their usual fetish for non-reality based activities to make them feel good inside, like affirmative action for black people like Barry.

Surprised Sowell hasn't put it together in a column.

14 By the way, I am starting to wonder if the Obamamessiah isn't just plain fucking bone stupid.  I had always assumed he was a smart guy, but when you get him away from a teleprompter he just can't spit it out.  Uh Uh UH UH Jeezus what the fuck are you trying to say?  You think a guy that communicates like that could command an aircraft carrier or an armored division?  McCain (who I loathe) will crush this guy in the debates.

15

Root cause of Hamas and Hezbollah: the existence of Israel.  Claims: Israel must be exterminated.

This isn't true and while it may seem a nit, there is an important distinction in what Hamas' and Hezbollah's,al Qaeda's and all other Islamic militant groups root causes are and what they have been allowed to become. 

All extremist muslim groups can trace their origin to Hassan al Banna in the 1920's, long before there was an Israel.  al Banna is the inspiration for the goal of both Shia and Sunni, an Islamic ruled Middle East and beyond.  While Shia and Sunni may have their differences they pale in comparison to their mutual goal, Islamic supremacy.  Israel is important to them inasmuch as it exists within the Middle East.  If Sweden was located where Israel is, we would be hearing "Death to the Ice Backs" instead of "Death to the Jews".

It seems minor but it's important to keep in mind that the Palestinian-Israeli issue is more an excuse than a cause and it allows the Jihadists and their symps in the western media to focus the problem, erroneously, on the Jews instead of where it belongs, on the muslims.  It is also extremely arrogant of the western media to buy into this crap that somehow outside forces are the "root causes" of Islamic lunancy and contributes to the infantalism of their culture.  Muslims need to grow the fuck up, look at the problem and admit that the root cause of their problem is their own twisted and backward culture.  It would be great if we would stop letting them get away with blaming the victims of their backwardness.

16

...I cannot quite yet come to grips with an American presidential candidate who equivocates that genocide is a legitimate claim.

Wow-fucking-wow!

Hez:  "The holocaust didn't happen."

Hamas:  "Hey, give us a chance."

 

17

He loves Farrakhan. Cuz they both have a common "root cause" regarding the Jooooos.

18

Barry's favorite Chuck Mangione song is called "The Land of Make Believe".

19

JackStraw at May 16, 2008 03:18 PM (t+mja)

Not disagreeing with most of what you said but I would note that a number of hard line Islamists had grabbed onto the Protocols of the Elders of Zion prior to the creation of Israel. 

20

sockpuppet off

21 Trying to slove terrorism by looking at the root causes is like trying to cure mad cow disease by finding out what the cows are so mad about.

22 >>Not disagreeing with most of what you said but I would note that a number of hard line Islamists had grabbed onto the Protocols of the Elders of Zion prior to the creation of Israel.

True, but again, not the problem. Remember, Hitler also referenced the P of the E Z when he was building the Nazi cult. Exterminating the Jews wasn't his goal, dominating Europe and spreading Nazism was his goal. Scapegoating the Jews was one of the many tactics he used and, shamefully to the west, he gained many sympathizers. Many people where all to willing to throw the Jews under the bus in an attempt to appease Hitler. The P of EZ where created by the Russians to help them justify their purge of the Jews, then Hitler grabbed it and now the Muslims. Jews have long been the canary in the coal mine.

It's no great shock that the Grand Mufti who was allied with Hitler during WWII and actively supported the P of E Z, escaped to Egypt after WWII where he continued to employ similar tactics to the Nazis, blame the Jews and other groups to disguise the broader goal of domination by his cult.

23

Ace--stop being a divisive dishonest distractor!  Obamessiah doesn't appreciate that.

 

He's a thin skinned putz who won't brook disagreement.  I wouldn't let him negotiate what's for dinner tonight--in a restaurant with just two items on the menu.

 

 

 

24

Eleanor Clift just wrote a piece for Newsweek recommending Obama to pick John Edwards for VP.  Two thoughts:

1)  Would that be excellent, or what?

2)  How can someone that dumb write about politics for a living?

25

I think he just likes saying things like "root causes" b/c it gets him laid in Berkeley

All the granola munchers love shit like that

"Root causes" - oh Obama, you are such a CAD!!!!

26

Help me find my root causes Barry!

We all know you are really talking about finding the root causes of my white racism, we all get it brother!

I found a recent vid of his wonderful wife Michelle talking about white people.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=GkaSzzRfue4

27

JackStraw, I agree with you, which is why I limited my comment in #12 to Hamas.  Al Qaida was largely founded by Egyptians and Saudis who have a vision of a united Islamic Middle East that does not leave any more room for Palestinian nationalism than it does for a Jewish state.

Hamas is officially for the same Islamic supremacy program, but as a practical matter most of their rank and file fighters are locals who really are fighting for that specific piece of land which Israel occupies.  The stupidity of Obama's comment lies in the fact that any of the Pali's who would consider negotiating a political settlement for a piece of it are already in the Fatah camp, which gets undermined every time someone like Carter or Obama legitimize Fatah's terrorist rivals.

I did not include Hezbollah in my comment, because I see them largely as Iranian proxies.  The "root cause" of most Hezbollah violence can be traced directly to Iran's geopolitical goals in the region.

28 Heh,
 He said root.

29 theDonks (Obama, Pelosi, Dodd, Biden, ...) squealed pretty long and hard, so you know they got hurt. Wonder what their internal polls said. They need to be smacked long and hard so that their response increases in irrationality

30 Israel isn't the root cause of mid eastern terrorism. The root cause is the shameless demagoguery of Islamic politicians, kings, crime leaders, and religious folk.

31 Americans cling to their religion and guns because of economic woes and such. Terrorists cling to the religion and guns because of "root causes."

Obama isn't so much a politician as he is a shrink from the school of Oprah. Everybody is basically good, and when they're bad, it's society's fault.

32

Root cause:  Evil fucks who kill innocent people.

Result:  Dumbasses who rewrite history to underpin their dumbassery.

Legimitate grievances...gaaack.  Boy do we have a serious language problem developing.

33 >>I did not include Hezbollah in my comment, because I see them largely as Iranian proxies. The "root cause" of most Hezbollah violence can be traced directly to Iran's geopolitical goals in the region.

aldo-

I'm not disagreeing with the current state of Hezbollah, just pointing out the "root"of all root causes of modern Islamic radicalism can be traced to one man, al Banna. al Banna inspired Qtub and Azzam which begat Zawahiri and bin Laden on the one hand and Maududi and Khomeini on the other. All, long before there was an Israel.

I don't disagree that they want Israel gone, they say it daily. But if that were the root of their complaint it would stand to reason that if Israel was gone they would be satisfied. They wouldn't be. Israel is only the cause du jour. Islamic radicals believe in a fundamental Islamic state as their ultimate goal. Yes, there are differences between Shia and Sunni. But their primary goal is more important than their differences. It is akin to saying Repubs and Dems don't get along but their primary goal, democracy, is more important than their differences.

Yes, we tend not to chop each others heads off but that's only because most of you gave up your scimitars. I repeat, you. So watch your step.

34

root causes: code word for "Tight Slacks".

35

Israel is the root cause of Pakistani muslim terrorists blowing up Indian hindus?

Israel is the root cause of Iraqi Sunni terrorists murdering Iraqi Shi'ites and vice versa?

Israel is the root cause of Thai muslims terrorists murdering buddhists?

Who knew?

36 I agree that the Jews are just a handy scapegoat - and they have been so handy for so much of history that educated sophisticated people reflexively shrug and say "of course - it's always those people at the bottom of everything, isn't it?

But it remains that the destruction of Israel is explicitly called for in Hamas's charter.  It's part of their mission statement.  It's a core value.  Sure, they're just as happy murdering any helpless victims they can find, so long as they can tie it into Islamic expansionism.

And hey, whaddaya know, anything can be tied into that, and apparently Allah will let you into Paradise, no questions asked, just so long as you can demonstrate you died trying to slaughter the innocent.

But Obama was specifically addressing the "Israel question," as a late 19th century statesman would phrase it.  Arab Islamic aggression is always going to be a serious problem, regardless of the existence of Israel.  However, that isn't what the O-man was discussing.  For him, as for nearly every lefty, the Middle East is all about Israel.  As as with every lefty, everything is negotiable.  Literally everything.

Granny goes under the bus?  Okay.  Robert Malley under the bus?  There you go.  Rev. Wright, under the bus?  Yeah, fine.  Samantha Power?  Sure, no sweat.  Is anyone really stupid enough to believe that Obama has a line in the sand, beyond which he will not budge?

37 >>But Obama was specifically addressing the "Israel question," as a late 19th century statesman would phrase it. Arab Islamic aggression is always going to be a serious problem, regardless of the existence of Israel. However, that isn't what the O-man was discussing. For him, as for nearly every lefty, the Middle East is all about Israel. As as with every lefty, everything is negotiable. Literally everything.

Exactly. The point isn't Israel but radical muslims and the Dems always try to make it the point. The point is, the root cause of muslim aggression, is muslims. That's what needs to be addressed and that's where the problem will be solved. Everything else, is to quote a well know liberal, a distraction. It's what children do, I don't like the question so I'll pretend its about something else. We shouldn't allow them to distract us.

The question is how are you going to deal with radical muslims and their fucked up world view?

38 Compare and contrast:

The U.S. needs a foreign policy that “looks at the root causes of problems and dangers.” Obama compared Hezbollah to Hamas. Both need to be compelled to understand that “they’re going down a blind alley with violence that weakens their legitimate claims.”
-Senator Obama

"It has always seemed to me that in dealing with foreign countries we do not give ourselves a chance of success unless we try to understand their mentality, which is not always the same as our own

"We should seek by all means in our power to avoid war, by analyzing possible causes, by trying to remove them, by discussion in a spirit of collaboration and good will. I cannot believe that such a program would be rejected by the people of this country, even if it does mean the establishment of personal contact with the dictators.”
-Neville Chamberlain

Hmmm...

39

Was that really erg up there? 

40 Erg, really, was that you?

Am I racist if I say Obama is an idiot? This guy has only studied policy at cocktail parties.

41 JackStraw,

One more thing to consider about the root cause and how to "solve" it when those attacking don't want it solved: oil.

While the most militant surely aim to destroy Israel and then move on to the next target, whatever it is that stands in the way of some global caliphate, I think there are now others who enjoy this proxy war just fine and don't really want Israel to be disappeared due to purely economic profit. Oil is that new commodity that came online relatively recently. As we've seen, the underlying conflict keeps their main export, besides terrorism, artificially over-valued and highly rewarding. This proxy war with Israel serves both as a relief valve for the indigenous as the scape goat and a business model for the money-makers to maintain artificially inflated returns on their oil.

I think this may even partly explain Russian interest in bonding with Iran (even though they've been allied against the West for some time) both for access to untapped reserves and the engineering to sustain it. Conflict with Israel, or in the region generally, keeps their own fuel prices elevated, and we've seen how they manipulate that commodity to effect political and economic advantage in eastern Europe.

Sorry about the diversion, but I think more than ideology is in play here and is worth considering. Root cause is probably now brutally cold economic profiteering in addition to an ethnic hatred. That's not to say we should be drinking tea with them to discuss it, however.

42 Hey, guys, put down the machete. Maybe we can talk about this.

43 >>I think this may even partly explain Russian interest in bonding with Iran (even though they've been allied against the West for some time) both for access to untapped reserves and the engineering to sustain it.

Indeed. My only disagreement would be about Russia having a recent interest in Iran. They've been as interested and involved with the middle east and Iran in particular as we have since before WWII.

Let's dispense with the nonsense that most if not all of our interest in the middle east historically has been about oil, it has been. Were it not for oil, the middle east would be of less import to us than Africa which is to say not at all. Oil is the, er, oil, that drives the world economy. So? Most of our reason for dealing with other countries is economic. Trade is the reason for much of human activity, from hookers to oil sheiks, they have it and we buy it.

What has made this region particularly noxious is the combination of tribalism, religion, the meddling of Russia and lately China and our own mixed history. We, and the Brits before us, didn't always deal well with the middle east and all during WWII Iran was a fulcrum between the allies and the Nazis. We all played with Iran because it was strategically and resource rich. After the war, when BP was effectively expelled, we attempted to exert our influence and so did the Russians. We won, for a while, but the war never really ended. All the while, nationalists and religious fundamentalists built movements and against us. They also grew together, the enemy of my enemy and all that. The Russians never left either.

When the Shah, our creature, was finally driven out payback was coming. If people thought that the war was over when the hostages were released following Reagan's election, they weren't paying attention. What we got was the ayatollah's taking charge with nationalists partnering up for the ride with oil as the weapon to force power. Saudi Arabia took the same route with the positions reversed, House of Saud driving with the Wahhabis in the co-pilot seat with oil as the hammer, a couple generations earlier. Both have the same effect, tribes with their strain of Islam using oil as a weapon to achieve power. As our influence waned in Iran, the Russian's rose. The AK-47 isn't ubiquitous in the region for nada. Take a good hard look at the Hezbollah flag. Yes indeed, that's an AK-47.

None of this is to say that we should be drinking tea with anyone in particular, even if they are buying. We have interests, the interests of a free democracy. Our root cause will be to open markets to our goods and services in exchange for the goods and services of other nations. Our weapons are openness and free trade. Others have different root causes. The root causes of radical Islam which reigns in Iran and by extension Hezbollah and Hamas are subjugation and domination and their weapons are terror and economic extortion in the form or oil. Israel is a distraction they employ and one they toss out to appease the nutroots in their midst much like the Saudis allowed the wahhabis to screw around with the Great Satan till that fucked them in the ass.

If and when we decide we need to end this we will stop fucking around and speak plainly. We want and need their oil. We would prefer to trade for it on the open market but we won't allow for it to be used as a weapon against us. We would prefer that they opened their societies and stopped living in the dark ages but we won't interfere as long as they play nice. But, we are the baddest mother fuckers on the block and if they continue to screw around we will stomp them.

This talk of root causes and feeling their pain makes my ass itch. This isn't Dr fucking Phil. We are the world's jolly green giant. We're fucking jolly, keep us that way and all will be well.

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