"These are issues that conservatives will be receptive to and they are also issues that Republicans need to hear about."

...the issues conservatives will be receptive to being that conservatives are ALREADY dealing with, Republicans REALLY need to hear about, like we can't hear the sounds of our own voices? Well, so long as we fight the Left together on the domestic front...

But it's as if Ronulans' foreign policy is based on the experience of kids who could only play at home and NEVER leave their own yard, cloistered by over-protective parents who did not approve of anyone else's kids.

Ask any Ronulan and they'll tell you: Freedom is too precious to entrust to the shambling, unwashed sheeples. Fortunately they're here with their smarterishness to tell what the Founders REALLY meant because obviously you can't because you aren't smart enough to vote for Ron Paul thus demonstrating your hatred of freedom.

So don't worry about your silly elections. They'll just lie their way into nominating the guy the shambling, unwashed sheeple were never smart enough to vote for and everything REAL freedom.

Because they're smarter than you are...because they vote for Ron Paul and you don't. He knows that the Gulf of Tonkin means any other attack on the US is also a lie, the bird flu is a ploy to impose martial law, your money has micro-chips to spy on you and Saddam was overthrown because he wanted Euros instead of dollars.

you can list credentials- soccer coach, bible study teacher, veteran, home schooler...

hermit ...

Hey!  Them's fighting words!

as if they were the teacher Mr. Turner of cartoon fame about to scream "FAIRY GODPARENTS!

The teacher is Mr. Crocker. The kid is Timmy Turner. The only reason I bring this up is because it's something I actually know. I hate to quibble about this one minor item, because the rest of your post was dead on, but I'm like a Paulnut who can't help himself. FIAT MONEY!!! NEOCON!!! JOOOS!!! HALLIBURTON!!! TOWER #7!!!!

I'm not convinced there's more than one or two left...

There are plenty of them slithering around the Emerald City. Skull fuckers.

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/washington/2008/04/ronpaul.html

If the GOP continues to push the ACE of Spades Neocon agenda they'll get blown out of the water in November.

We morons are neocons?  And we have an agenda (beyond killing hobos)?  Why didn't I get the memo?

Gold and silver should be freely circulating in the economy

Gold and silver are freely circulating in the economy.  Last I checked I could buy or sell any precious metal at spot, +/- a small broker fee.  The biggest problem with a purist gold standard is this:  What happens if the total size of the economy grows faster than the supply of gold?   There are other major issues, of course.  Fiat currencies are pretty much necessary in a large global economy.

Anyway, I hate to feed Paulbots, but William actually sounds like a reasonable version.  Paulbot 2.0 if you would.

Sure you can buy gold and silver, but it serves no monetary purpose.  It should be allowed to circulate as money and let the people decide what they want to use.  It's called free market money.

http://www.fee.org/Publications/the-Freeman/article.asp?aid=3233

No one, not Ron Paul is advocating returning to a fixed price of Gold Standard.  The daily Gold Market would set the price.   Gold has been around for 6 thousand years.  Even Larry Kudlow favores letting people choose

http://youtube.com/watch?v=FJhMwxL_KR8

OK, Williaim--riddle me this:  How do you make an 11 trillion dollar economy work on 200 billion in gold reserves?  Don't hurt yourself.

Follow-up:  Those pesky fureners have their own rules and stuff for trade.  Without a rulebook, how do you keep them honest?  Seriously, try not to expose your spleen or other vitals during the sure-to-come contortions.

I should just let this go, but I can’t.  In a nutshell, here is the trouble with Professor Science and his supporters:

They are dangerously unserious people.

You can’t issue Letters of Marque and Reprisal in the modern world.  You can’t power modern commerce without fiat currency.  You can’t defend liberty in America without defending its interests outside the lower 48.  You can’t cut Israel adrift without destabilizing the entire world.  You can’t have international trade without international agreements about said trade.  You can’t ignore Iraq.

Governing is not a theoretical exercise.  It’s serious business and people who see conspiratorial boogeymen behind every corner or who tout kindergarten-level solutions to extremely complex SERIOUS issues should get another hobby, because your “truth” is, to quote Monty Python election results, very silly.  I hear bonsai gardens and fantasy football are pretty good alternatives.

Well said Circa.  It's the problem with any purist ideology, made worse when you add the tinfoil hat stuff to it.  I consider myself a 'practical libertarian'.  There are many, many more realistic issues that can be worked on than worrying about fiat currencies.  Hell, for starters, I'd settle for legalizing prostitution and/or repealing anti-gambling legislation.

Of course, those are both AoS lifestyle issues, so it's not terribly suprising that's what I'd like to see done.

http://www.fee.org/publications/the-freeman/article.asp?aid=6378

No shortage of Gold

As for trade, put an across the board 15 percent tariff on good coming here.  Foreigners like to buy our products, they don't need to trade deals to make it happen.

Exhibit A and B of unseriousness, William:

A.  The wacky link you cite (from 19 friggin' 73) contains exactly ZERO numbers to back Professor Probably-can't-balance-his-checkbook-and-I've-never-heard-of-him-anyway's assertions.  I asked how you how to power JUST the the U.S. economy (25% of the world's) on $200 billion in gold reserves, which is approximately what we have.  Try again.

B.  "Foreigners like to buy our products, they don't need to trade deals to make it happen."  The U.S. interest in international trade deals is to ensure access as open and equitable as possible for American exports.  If you're a California wine exporter, think how annoying the import duties on wine are in, say, Thailand.

Not serious.  QED.

That Wacky site has only had 4 Nobel Laureates in Economics be regular contributors.  Milton Friedman, F.A Hayek, Vern Smith, and James Buchanan.

I'm sorry it sailed right over your head.

Also that Wacky site just happened to be Ronald Reagan's favorite magazine

http://www.fee.org/publications/the-freeman/article.asp?aid=4644

As for the trade, of course its serious.  You just can't grasp the idea that people have been trading for thousands of years. We don't need thousands of pages of bureaucratic BS for people to trade.

I note that the Nobel laureates you mention weren't the authors of that piece of drivel--from 1973.  I apologize for not grasping how a piece of theoretical unpracticality applies to $200 billion in gold reserves to facilitate an $11 trillion economy.

So, you haven't answered my question, genius.  And I must have missed where Reagan instituted all your fantastic ideas--because I remember him as being a serious person who understood he had to govern--not pontificate.

Yes, people have been trading for thousands of years.  Most of it without nation-state borders, technology export controls, dozens of convertible currencies, multinational corporations, futures markets, or even--GASP, capitalism itself.  Your...um..."solution" on trade is not fit for serious discussion.  Try again.

The world is C-O-M-P-L-I-C-A-T-E-D.  If anyone is out of their depth here, it's you.

No, but Hans F. Sennholz was th Chairman of the Economics Department at Grove City College for 36yrs.  Grove is regarded as one of the best schools in the country and perhaps the best Conservative school

http://www.gcc.edu/Rankings_2.php

You just keep digging yourself a bigger hole. 

As for your question, you wouldn't move to a 100 percent gold backed currency right off the bat.  Let gold and silver regain their monetary function.  People would begin to conduct business with it.   Slowly over time it would begin to find it's market value in the economy.  The market would adjust.  Sennholz explains it nicely.  There's enough Gold. Just don't let the government manage it.  Let the market find its niche

What is this love affair the Paulbots have with Reagan?

I realize that he was a great President and is a hero to the right, but did he do anything while in office that looks remotely like Paul's agenda?

The short answer to your question, TomB is:  No.

Back to William:

An economist in 1973 in a theoretical piece devoid of numbers or practicialities says there is no shortage of gold.  You say it is appiclable as a blueprint for monetary policy in 2008.  Yeah, I'm stumped and in a deep hole. 

Project much?

As for your question, you wouldn't move to a 100 percent gold backed currency right off the bat.  Let gold and silver regain their monetary function.  People would begin to conduct business with it. 

I guess I'm still confused about what you mean by this - are you suggesting that we should start using actual gold and silver coins? You do realize that actual physical currency is ony a small percent of the overall money supply. And if you're talking about special gold/silver certificates, there really isn't any practical difference between these and the bills we have today.

Willie R Maybe,

So you want gold. BFD. I just got done reading Ben Franklin's autobio and he talked about printing "fiat" money in Pennsylvania and it was a economic boon; not because they just printed money but because there was actual economic activity going on and the lack of printed currency was restraining the growth associated with that activity. I mention ol' Ben b/c Ronulans like to erroniously quote the "those who sacrifice liberty for security..."

Anyhoo...you want a gold standard but you pin your hopes on a racist, paranoid old Chamberlain-esque crank who runs with and attracts the worst of the worst. Who is gonna be his SecDef Alex Jones? SecState Sheehan? SecEd Duke?

You don't understand free markets . 

Nice and simple.  With free market money the government has no control on the quanity or quality. 

First congress would have say the constitution actually means what it says and delcare that Gold and Silver would be legal tender again.  Then banks or private mints could start issuing gold and silver.  These coins would be measured in grams.  Their  value would be set daily by the gold and silver markets.  As more people began to use them there might be a demand for more gold.  Then the mining of gold would crank up.  The only function of government in this free market money would be to insure that banks and private mints are putting out an honest product.  That's it.  Places of business would soon begin to install cash registeres that could check the spot price of gold and silver.  Gold and silver would beging to push out paper due to it's stronger purchasing power.  Laissez faire

The Freeman is a magazine.  Hayek was long time contributor to the publication.

A 15 percent tariff is a low across the board tax.  End all other barriers on trade.  The revenue generated from the tax could be used to give domestic producers a  tax cut.

Then banks or private mints could start issuing gold and silver.  These coins would be measured in grams.  Their  value would be set daily by the gold and silver markets. 

You know, if you send me some free samples of this gold Free Market money, I'm willing to consider switching. Hell, send me weekly sample lots and I'll spread the gospel among the morons.

Here comes the Ron Paul is a racist anti semite BS.  Gawd, simply pathetic.

Lets see, He was very good friends with Milton Friedman and Murray Rothbard. Both Jews. 

Smearing of Ron Paul

The revenue generated from the tax could be used to give domestic producers a  tax cut.

This could be...could be, until the next Andrew Sullivan statement, the stupidest thing I've ever read.

You see, William--what you don't grasp with the "let's just do x" statements is that there are around 200 other states to trade with (no I don't count the EU as a unitary actor).  They each have an independent trade policy.  So do we.

American goods face daunting duties (far in excess of 15% in most cases) on an almost infinite variety of goods.  Without codified agreements, American business would capricious and utlitmately crippling disadvantages. 

Also, one of the reasons why the Great Depression was so bad...

Was the Smoot-Hawley Tarriff and the reciprocal acts from our trading partners.

The Ronulans don't talk about that, either.

Finally, a source of knowledge!  William R., maybe you could help my pal Bedivere and me with a problem - it involves women, and wood, and ducks, and the detection of covert thaumaturigal practicioners.

The whole thing hinges on the proper use of a balance scale.  Given your economic insights, you'd be a whiz at solving this one.

Whaddya say?  Help a (regal) brother out?

I'm not interested in toting around a knapsack full of coins.  They're fucking heavy and can be easily stolen.

If you put them in a sock you can beat the thieves with them.

64 I'm intrigued by this gated community notion though.  As long as the locks are on the outside rather than the inside, I'm all for it.

PA, that's hands-down one of the funniest comments I've read in a long time. Pure comedy gold.

66 #63  You wouldn't have to.  Gold and silver checking accounts would be created. See how simple that is.

William, you forgot to provide us with a link to an obscure website or blog to support that assertion.

#59 Actually from 1929-1933 the FED was hoarding Gold instead of getting it out to member banks thus creating the huge bank failure.  The Federal Reserve created the Depression.  Not Gold!

http://www.fee.org/publications/the-freeman/article.asp?aid=4082

Its just elementary Money and Banking.

I'll tell ya, the posters here are among the dumbest in cyberspace

I'll tell ya, the posters  trolls and Ronbots here are among the dumbest in cyberspace

Fixed that for ya.  Not that the rest of us are terribly bright ... we are morons after all ... but given the standard for the competition, we do pretty well.  Plus, we get to kill hobos and have a laugh afterward, not do 12 hours of useless research to find some obscure document which might support our pointless arguement.

That's more like it William! For a moment there I was afraid you'd lost your touch.

But do you have a link that can prove  we're among the dumbest in cyberspace? Until you provide one, I'll continue to be skeptical.

#75.  People were trying to exchange their paper for Gold. The banks didn't have any gold so they shut their doors.  They didn't have any Gold because the Federal Reserve was hoarding it.

As everyone knows, the following four years, 1929–1933, were a deflationary disaster. Not quite so clear is what the Federal Reserve did, or, more important, did not do during that time. Fed spokesmen have often alleged that the Fed tried “everything in its power” to turn around the contraction, and that it used its gold reserves to their utmost. Again, nothing could be further from the truth.

By 1929, the Fed’s monetary liabilities—commercial banks’ reserve-deposit accounts in Fed Banks, and the public’s holdings of Federal Reserve currency—were $4.25 billion. These monetary items exceeded the Fed’s gold asset holdings by only $1.39 billion. Put another way, the gold that came into the Fed Banks, which the commercial banks would have held in the absence of a central bank, was $2.86 billion. Federal Reserve policy actions had created the remaining $1.39 billion. By August 1929, the Fed’s gold and other reserves had grown to $3.12 billion (not shown in the table). The Federal Reserve Act required half these gold reserves to back outstanding Fed liabilities, but the other half of them, $1.56 billion, were “excess” and available for whatever monetary purposes the Fed managers thought appropriate.

During the following three-and-a-half years, the Fed Banks’ managers continued to build up the Fed Banks’ gold holdings—even as the financial system spiraled downward as a result of three serious banking crises. By February 1933, owing to the Fed’s tight money policy, the economy was in shambles and constricted to the point of monetary suffocation. The Fed Banks’ gold stock had increased to $3.36 billion, and “excess” gold reserves were still $1.35 billion! (The higher figure in the table is for June 1933.) This damning statistic is seen in the column labeled “Fed Gold.” While the Fed had enjoyed an increase of $700 million in its gold and other reserve holdings, its monetary output had increased by only $680 million: Commercial banks had $20 million less in reserves than they would have had with no Federal Reserve System.
http://www.fee.org/publications/the-freeman/article.asp?aid=4082

#78 wins the thread ... most intelligent argument I've seen yet.

80#  Well what do you have now.  Paper sitting in a vault and you write checks .   Well instead of paper people would have gold coins and bars that they could write checks.  Geesshh  LOL 

Anymore dumb question.   The only time this flop house is good is when Ace is bashing Andrew Sullivan.  

The only time this flop house is good is when Ace is bashing Andrew Sullivan.

Gotta admit, that's a pretty good point.

Gotta admit, that's a pretty good point.

I dunno', Dave...it's always pretty funny when Dave in Texas embarrases himself by trying to talk about football.

ghenghis, AD ... funny stuff ... sorry if I haven't been as serious as I might in this thread ... but damn, this has gotta be one of the sillier, pie-in-the-sky arguments by a Ronbot I've seen recently.

Plus, actually demolishing him would be (1) impossibe, the damn Ronbots are industructible, (2) boring, too easy, and (3) there is no three.

Why be serious Dave?

Also, according to the author of the post at SoundPolitics, the Ron Paul site is now offline. Why doesn't that surprise me.

Hermit Dave, you're a blithering idiot.  Get out of the house.

Ouch... oof ... don't put me in the comfy chair again!!!!!eleventy!!!!  No!!!!! No!!!! Not  a cup  of tea!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'm sorry, dude, but you're clearly an academic of some sort ... most likely undergrad given your phat skillzzz ... but, hell, given how far downhill higher education has gone, you may be a PhD candidate for all I know.

This is the first time you've responded directly to me in this thread.  If you had shown even a modicum of humor I might care.  But no, you're just another bad joke ... well read, but zero real world experience.  The next Krugman, if you weil.  Enjoy your life ... which will certainly be far more miserable, humorlous, and hobo-deprived than my own.

Humorlous is the  key here, by the way ... as I said upthread ... you remind me of me ... 20 years ago ... but I had a sense of humor and a willingness to  adjust to reality and I survived to snark  another day.  Best of luck.

Sorry May but your messiah is a bigot.

At best he deflected saying Lew Rockwell wrote the controversial parts but lo and behold Dr Nutsack still posts at lewrockwell.com. Kinda hard to say, "it wasn't me! I don't think that way!" and still run ruin with the other libertardians.

Of course you still got Alex Jones frothing about wanting to kill the "neocons" under his bed. Dr Nutsack hangs with that dick too.

And then there's his rambling about money spying on us, the Iranian speedboats being the new Gulf of Tonkin, bird flu being the gateway to martial law, etc etc etc.

Care to discuss those or does that take the shine off your messiah's halo too much? You're following a crank, get over it. Nobody here hates Paul because they love big government but because they have enough sense to shun a paranoid POS.

McCain Strategy Revealed:

http://soundpolitics.com/public/2008/05/mccain_strategy_revealed.html

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