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| Mickey Kaus Goofs Mightily on the NYT's Iraq/Basra CoverageI mostly gave up fisking a while ago, as it seemed, what's the word, childish. Just snarking after quoting someone. Kaus seems similarly embarrassed to employ this old school technique, but it's so much fun it reminds me of why I used to do it. The NYT is determined to see looming instability and political collapse; but their case is made difficult by the facts (which they report with some amount of chagrin) that stability appears to be increasing. But there's always theThe Iraqi army and Iraqi government planned and executed the operation themselves. Failure? Don't think so. This is progress. As time passes, it is increasingly clear the Iraqi army did a far better job than the Shia gangsters. But we all know why the complex chart gets ignored and successes are glasses half-empty: A presidential election campaign is on, and the Democratic Party has bet its soul on defeat. "Hear no progress in Iraq, see no progress in Iraq, but most of all speak of no progress in Iraq." Thus Sen. Joe Lieberman, a member of the Armed Services Committee, deftly summed the last two years of Democratic Party posturing as well as the Democrats' talking points in the latest hearings. Mr. Lieberman's maverick pal, Sen. and Republican presidential nominee John McCain, spoke more bluntly, "Congress should not choose to lose in Iraq, but we should choose to succeed."Ted Kennedy had a bit of snark himself, noting that when violence is increasing and we appear to be losing hope of a victory, Bush says we have to stay the course, and when violence subsides and we appear to be on the verge of actual, unambiguous victory, Bush also says we have to stay the course. He presents this as some sort of a contradiction, when in fact the same imperative runs through both: We cannot afford to lose in Iraq and indeed have a fair chance of a cataclysmic victory. Cataclysmic for Al Qaeda and Islamist lunatics, I mean. But what is the imperative that runs through both of Kennedy's flip-side claims, to wit, that we must withdraw when violence is increasing and hope of victory seems diminshed, and also that we must withdraw when violence is subsiding and hope of victory seems... well, rather hopeful, actually? On the first point, I can't fault him: If a situation looks dire and unwinnable, withdrawal may in fact be the best of a pile of bad options. But how about on that second point? Is he saying that when a situation looks like it might actually result in a major victory, we should still withdrawal and force a sure defeat on ourselves? What possible logic animates that latter proposition, except for the obvious, the viciously partisan position that sacrifices national security (not to mention the fate of millions of Iraqis) to the ostensibly greater moral imperative that Bush must be repudiated and America soundly defeated in order for the Democrats to prosper politically? A house burned, but the heroic efforts of Americans (and Iraqis, and also Austrialians and Czechs and Poles and, earlier, Brits) put out the blaze almost completely, so that the house still stands and only small pockets of fire crackle here and thee to threaten it. Bush (and McCain, and Hillary and Obama too, sometimes) say "Well, gee, maybe we should put out those fires once and for all so that this house may stand forever." Ted Kennedy is saying "Let the winds and circumstance play with the flames and let's see if we cannot invite the inferno once again. Just... to see if we can get it to burn." Bush and Kennedy both have clear and consistent positions on the War in Iraq. Neither is engaged in contradiction or inconsistency whatsoever. It's just that Bush always wants to win the War in Iraq, whatever the circumstances, even when they are the most dire, and Kennedy always wants to lose the War in Iraq, whatever the circumstances, even when they are the most hopeful and victory seems almost in reach. They're both consistent. There is no hypocrisy on either man's part. But there is obviously a chasm of integrity, morality, and statesmanship between each position. Bush can well be faulted for stubbornly insisting on victory even in the face of circumstances that caused many of us -- myself included -- to despair. But compare that to a man stubbornly insisting on defeat even in the face of circumstances suggesting not merely the possibility of victory, but the strong likelihood thereof. And what does he gain? Why, his party has a marginally better chance of taking the White House and picking up a few more Congressional and Senate seats. And he will reap the great personal satisfaction of finally winning a political argument, the argument that the War in Iraq was unwinnable, even if he himself needs to intervene to make sure it is not won. Stay classy, left-liberals. Stay classy. Comments1
But fisking is all these phony political propagandists deserve. If they [the MSM] are going to be farcical in their journalism, why not treat them like farces?
Posted by: Bart at April 11, 2008 02:19 PM (lSCIc) 2
Is he saying that when a situation looks like it might actually result in a major victory, we should still withdrawal and force a sure defeat on ourselves?
Yes, yes, I believe that's exactly what he's saying. Posted by: Sean Bannion at April 11, 2008 02:20 PM (epqk/) 3
Democrats and the MSM have sought, do seek, and will seek failure to whatever degree possible in Iraq.
Posted by: But I repeat myself at April 11, 2008 02:24 PM (Uy68a) 4
What possible logic animates that latter proposition
Gin, mainly. BTW, one of your better efforts, ace. Posted by: jdub at April 11, 2008 02:26 PM (0t6Ct) 5
Democrats are beyond repulsive... I no longer can summon up polite words to express my contempt for them. MoDo's column yesterday cites the "Maliki debacle in Basra" as if it were an established fact that the Iraqis lost. If the casualty figures I saw are anywhere near true, a few more victories like that and Sadr will be down to his kitchen staff. What kind of person takes so much pleasure in lying to hurt their country and help its enemies? These are sick, and dangerous, people. Posted by: sherlock at April 11, 2008 02:27 PM (ojW85) 6
You know who benefits the most from long-ass 2,000 word posts from Ace that don't contain a single Val-U-Rite, hobo-hunting, or Scarlett Johannsen reference?
Mitt Romney.
Posted by: Hugh Hewitt at April 11, 2008 02:27 PM (iw0v8) 7
Ace, you're wrong. Fisking for accuracy is not only entertaining, but also educational. Fisking for condescension, also known as "T-bogging," is what's undeniably childish.
Hey that reminds me, whatever happened to that mock-T-Bogg blog you put together? Posted by: Granddaddy Long Legs at April 11, 2008 02:29 PM (Y9fG5) 8
There does seem to be a parallel of intertwined urgencies: losing the war; the tanking of the economy; the execution of Hillary; the silencing of naysayers; the mainstreaming of "social justice"; etc.
I hope this is leading to an anticlimax. Posted by: Brad at April 11, 2008 02:30 PM (LZs5x) 9
We cannot afford to lose in Iraq and indeed have a fair chance of a cataclysmic victory. Cataclysmic for Al Qaeda and Islamist lunatics, I mean.
I was certain you meant cataclysmic for Dems/MSM... As for despairing about the war back in '06: the strategy was broken, badly. Every COIN fight that was won, was won at the small unit level. Operations above platoon level generally don't have the agility, or the ability to cover enough battlespace to be effective. Having said that, the absolute, single most important part of a COIN war is very, very simple- Don't quit. Very few insurgencies have the ability to last more than 6 years. Even if we stuck to a craptacular strategy, we would eventually win by default as other folks just got tired. Posted by: XBradTC at April 11, 2008 02:48 PM (KGak3) Posted by: Tushar D at April 11, 2008 02:48 PM (IlgNp) 11
>>>Hey that reminds me, whatever happened to that mock-T-Bogg blog you put together?
I used a lot of pictures I found on the internet for it. I didn't save and upload them myself, though, so they expired and/or were changed. The thing just doesn't read right without those pictures of the Basset Hound, "Mayor Harvey Milk," and T-Bagg's kids, etc. Posted by: ace at April 11, 2008 02:54 PM (SXBHu) 12
the absolute, single most important part of a COIN war is very, very simple- Don't quit.
We learned these lessons in the 1920's. We just ignored them. I remember an old quote posted in my unit dayroom: "One of the serious problems in planning against the Americans is that they do not read their own doctrine and they feel no compulsion to follow it." At least we arrested that intellectual slide in this case. If you think anyone of Ted Kennedy's (or 95% of most Democrats) staff has any clue about things military you'd be wrong. It's OK as a Senator or a staffer to a Senator to not know it all. It's not acceptable to be uncurious. Posted by: Sean Bannion at April 11, 2008 02:57 PM (epqk/) 13
Darn it! I broke a nail.
Posted by: Lemons at April 11, 2008 03:00 PM (+Elxb) 14
Sometimes the day just looks at you wrong like that.
Posted by: Lemons at April 11, 2008 03:02 PM (+Elxb) 15
Sean, I know I'm preaching to the choir with you. And I would prefer a smart strategy over a dumb one, but either way it takes roughly the same amount of time, the question is more on the cost side. BTW, who was the quote, Rommel? Heard it many times, can't recall. I'm rereading Strategy for Defeat by USG Sharp (at the recommendation of a moron) and it is enough to make you pull your hair out. Many parallels with today. Posted by: XBradTC at April 11, 2008 03:03 PM (KGak3) 16
T-bogging? Isn't that what rich gays do for entertainment out on Cape Cod?
Posted by: Roy at April 11, 2008 03:06 PM (cB77O) Posted by: Eastcoast Toddler at April 11, 2008 03:19 PM (evdj2) 18
Brad, it was a quote from an old Soviet manuscript.
Petreaus has done good things with both the re-write of the COIN manual and his strategy now. He just needs to close the deal. It takes time. McCain is right, there's no problem staying there for 100 years if there are no casualties. Posted by: Sean Bannion at April 11, 2008 03:25 PM (epqk/) 19
I mostly gave up fisking a while ago, as it seemed, what's the word, childish. Just snarking after quoting someone.
A true "Fisking" is quotes followed by refutations, not snark. 90% of what you are doing should be rebutting assertions with facts. This can be pointing out illogic (true illogic, not just his-logic-is-based-on-liberal-ideas-and-we-all-know-those-are-wrong) or pointing out false facts. A little snark can be good for spice, but that's not what Fisking is all about. Few writers' works are actually amenable to Fisking. That's what set Mr. Fisk apart from so many other writers. His columns were so jam-packed full of stupid lies that they could be "Fisked" without ignoring facts. Posted by: Daryl Herbert at April 11, 2008 03:31 PM (YvLui) 20
Come on already...this is Ted freakin Kennedy we are talking about. Of course he wants to run away from doing what is right. He ran from a car submerged in a canal with a woman drowning in it didn't he...
Posted by: Tex at April 11, 2008 04:07 PM (73eJg) 21
Let's not forget the Dems are so committed to defeat because of political expediency. They cynically pander to the "Bush is a monster" crowd, so they can't afford for the US to actually win in Iraq. They don't give a shit about chaos in Iraq after we leave, or the future ramifications of a defeat there. They want the White House, and an American military defeat to terrorists is a small price to pay as far as they're concerned.
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The (Almost) Complete Paul Anka Integrity Kick
Primary Document: The Audio
Paul Anka Haiku Contest Announcement Integrity SAT's: Entrance Exam for Paul Anka's Band AllahPundit's Paul Anka 45's Collection AnkaPundit: Paul Anka Takes Over the Site for a Weekend (Continues through to Monday's postings) George Bush Slices Don Rumsfeld Like an F*ckin' Hammer Top Top Tens
Democratic Forays into Erotica New Shows On Gore's DNC/MTV Network Nicknames for Potatoes, By People Who Really Hate Potatoes Star Wars Euphemisms for Self-Abuse Signs You're at an Iraqi "Wedding Party" Signs Your Clown Has Gone Bad Signs That You, Geroge Michael, Should Probably Just Give It Up Signs of Hip-Hop Influence on John Kerry NYT Headlines Spinning Bush's Jobs Boom Things People Are More Likely to Say Than "Did You Hear What Al Franken Said Yesterday?" Signs that Paul Krugman Has Lost His Frickin' Mind All-Time Best NBA Players, According to Senator Robert Byrd Other Bad Things About the Jews, According to the Koran Signs That David Letterman Just Doesn't Care Anymore Examples of Bob Kerrey's Insufferable Racial Jackassery Signs Andy Rooney Is Going Senile Other Judgments Dick Clarke Made About Condi Rice Based on Her Appearance Collective Names for Groups of People John Kerry's Other Vietnam Super-Pets Cool Things About the XM8 Assault Rifle Media-Approved Facts About the Democrat Spy Changes to Make Christianity More "Inclusive" Secret John Kerry Senatorial Accomplishments John Edwards Campaign Excuses John Kerry Pick-Up Lines Changes Liberal Senator George Michell Will Make at Disney Torments in Dog-Hell Greatest Hitjobs
The Ace of Spades HQ Sex-for-Money Skankathon A D&D Guide to the Democratic Candidates Margaret Cho: Just Not Funny More Margaret Cho Abuse Margaret Cho: Still Not Funny Iraqi Prisoner Claims He Was Raped... By Woman Wonkette Announces "Morning Zoo" Format John Kerry's "Plan" Causes Surrender of Moqtada al-Sadr's Militia World Muslim Leaders Apologize for Nick Berg's Beheading Michael Moore Goes on Lunchtime Manhattan Death-Spree Milestone: Oliver Willis Posts 400th "Fake News Article" Referencing Britney Spears Liberal Economists Rue a "New Decade of Greed" Artificial Insouciance: Maureen Dowd's Word Processor Revolts Against Her Numbing Imbecility Intelligence Officials Eye Blogs for Tips They Done Found Us Out, Cletus: Intrepid Internet Detective Figures Out Our Master Plan Shock: Josh Marshall Almost Mentions Sarin Discovery in Iraq Leather-Clad Biker Freaks Terrorize Australian Town When Clinton Was President, Torture Was Cool What Wonkette Means When She Explains What Tina Brown Means Wonkette's Stand-Up Act Wankette HQ Gay-Rumors Du Jour Here's What's Bugging Me: Goose and Slider My Own Micah Wright Style Confession of Dishonesty Outraged "Conservatives" React to the FMA An On-Line Impression of Dennis Miller Having Sex with a Kodiak Bear The Story the Rightwing Media Refuses to Report! Our Lunch with David "Glengarry Glen Ross" Mamet The House of Love: Paul Krugman A Michael Moore Mystery (TM) The Dowd-O-Matic! Liberal Consistency and Other Myths Kepler's Laws of Liberal Media Bias John Kerry-- The Splunge! Candidate "Divisive" Politics & "Attacks on Patriotism" (very long) The Donkey ("The Raven" parody) News/Chat
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