NYT: Violence, Extremism Have Turned Many Iraqis Away From Islam

Invade their countries, kill their leaders, and convert them to Christianity.

I don't mean that -- not really -- but it seems apropos.

After almost five years of war, many young people in Iraq, exhausted by constant firsthand exposure to the violence of religious extremism, say they have grown disillusioned with religious leaders and skeptical of the faith that they preach.
The youth prison wing of the Iraqi police compound in Baghdad. Many young people have taken part in Iraq’s sectarian violence.
In two months of interviews with 40 young people in five Iraqi cities, a pattern of disenchantment emerged, in which young Iraqis, both poor and middle class, blamed clerics for the violence and the restrictions that have narrowed their lives.
“I hate Islam and all the clerics because they limit our freedom every day and their instruction became heavy over us,” said Sara, a high school student in Basra. “Most of the girls in my high school hate that Islamic people control the authority because they don’t deserve to be rulers.”
Atheer, a 19-year-old from a poor, heavily Shiite neighborhood in southern Baghdad, said: “The religion men are liars. Young people don’t believe them. Guys my age are not interested in religion anymore.”
The shift in Iraq runs counter to trends of rising religious practice among young people across much of the Middle East, where religion has replaced nationalism as a unifying ideology.
...
Such patterns, if lasting, could lead to a weakening of the political power of religious leaders in Iraq. In a nod to those changing tastes, political parties are dropping overt references to religion.
“In the beginning, they gave their eyes and minds to the clerics; they trusted them,” said Abu Mahmoud, a moderate Sunni cleric in Baghdad, who now works deprogramming religious extremists in American detention. “It’s painful to admit, but it’s changed. People have lost too much. They say to the clerics and the parties: You cost us this.”
“When they behead someone, they say ‘Allahu akbar,’ they read Koranic verse,” said a moderate Shiite sheik from Baghdad, using the phrase for “God is great.”
“The young people, they think that is Islam,” he said. “So Islam is a failure, not only in the students’ minds, but also in the community.”

Read the whole thing.

Islamism seems, thankfully, self-limiting; it's great at promoting itself, but once the Islamists actually take over, they quickly turn everyone into anti-Islamists.

Caution: Bear in mind the most elemental sort of media bias: The reporter's determination to find a capital-T Trend in everyfuckingthing; otherwise she doesn't have a story, she only has scattered anecdotes which mean nothing at all.

Posted by: Ace at 11:01 AM

Comments

1 After almost five years of war, many young people in Iraq, exhausted by constant firsthand exposure to the violence of religious extremism, say they have grown disillusioned with religious leaders and skeptical of the faith that they preach.

I think the same, or a similar, thing happened in Europe around 300 years ago. After a century or so of religious wars that devastated the continent, everybody decided that because the consequences were so horrific, religion was simply not worth fighting over.

And so for better or worse, religion was slowly but surely relegated to the private sphere, which resulted in the secular state we live in today.

Posted by: OregonMuse at March 04, 2008 11:06 AM (zTfCf)

2 this was always the only way we could actually beat this stuff. make the rank and file look around and see what they've lost and wonder what for.

Posted by: carl carlson at March 04, 2008 11:06 AM (hUuGu)

3
Weren't they beheading teachers and girls for teaching/attending school? Now all we have to do is introduce legislation making alcohol, the bible, and porn legal over there and our mission will be complete.

Posted by: Rinnie at March 04, 2008 11:16 AM (LoDJC)

4 This story was planned for publication a few days after Messiah/President Obama took the oath of office. It got published early because of human error. The editor involved has been forced to agreed to commit suicide. We regret the error.

Posted by: NY Times Editorial Board at March 04, 2008 11:26 AM (IlgNp)

5 I'd like to believe that there's a trend away from Mohammadism in response to all the jihadi violence. But the Saudis, Iranian mullahs, and Palestinian terrorists have used Mohammadism as an excuse to be total assholes for decades, but are any of those places experiencing such a backlash?

Posted by: Churchy McChurch at March 04, 2008 11:27 AM (Wat21)

6 So much for the religion of peace its like many arabs are getting disgusted with it

Posted by: Spurwing Plover at March 04, 2008 11:29 AM (XGDTE)

7 Is that Obama in the UnderArmour ad at upper right?

Posted by: Barry in CO at March 04, 2008 11:35 AM (aJtCl)

8 Tushar... hahaha! awesome!

Posted by: IreneFingIrene at March 04, 2008 11:36 AM (7nV1N)

There is one way to find out if the yelping is real. Let your pet dog listen to the video. If he perks up his ears, the yelps are real. If it does not, they are man-made. Dogs are very good at picking up the voices of puppies.

I was once dog-sitting a cousin's blind old dog, and discovery was showing something about wolves. They showed a wolf pup yelping, and the dog could tell that this was not a happy yelp. He got very disturbed, and sniffed around searching for the pup.

Posted by: Tushar D at March 04, 2008 11:53 AM (IlgNp)

10 Thanks, Irene!

Posted by: Tushar D at March 04, 2008 11:53 AM (IlgNp)

11 oops, wrong thread!

Posted by: Tushar D at March 04, 2008 11:57 AM (IlgNp)

Sara: “Most of the girls in my high school hate that Islamic people control the authority because they don’t deserve to be rulers.”

yes, Sara--it's nice and all, but that and a dime will get you a cuppa joe. Y'all are going to have to do a bit more than 'hate' the situation. A few of you folks need to get Bickle.

Posted by: railwriter at March 04, 2008 12:08 PM (/ZX77)

But the Saudis, Iranian mullahs, and Palestinian terrorists have used Mohammadism as an excuse to be total assholes for decades, but are any of those places experiencing such a backlash?

Good point, and it highlights the absolutely essential factor that is present in Iraq, and not in those other places... thousands of young idealistic soldiers from America and a few other nations who have demonstrated through their actions a level of honor and courage that totally negates the lies that the mullahs have been spouting for centuries. Not to mention the little fact that the very presence of their fearsome power makes it possible for the people to express themselves in this way at all.

Somehow the NYT overlooked those parts. They would have you believe that the muslim fanatics' overplayed their hand out of some political stupidity, and the people rejected them. The NYT reporters probably have trouble imagining a world where it doesn't matter whether the people agree or reject, they do as they are told, or die horribly. But without American power, that is exactly the world you have, folks.

Posted by: sherlock at March 04, 2008 12:36 PM (fKPuo)

14 Some notes for the AoS ~~Life~~Style Guide:

- *apropos* is not a synonym for *appropriate*;
- when one misuses *which,* using it in place of *that,* one sounds like an attorney;
- the word "fuck" should always be spelled out completely, or the writer looks like a fucking pussy.

Posted by: Attila Girl at March 04, 2008 01:33 PM (ROU8v)

- the word "fuck" should always be spelled out completely, or the writer looks like a fucking pussy.

I'll fucking second that.

Posted by: Eleven at March 04, 2008 02:01 PM (7DB+a)

16 she doesn't have a story, she only has scattered anecdotes which mean nothing at all.

Actually, "which" is being used to introduce a non-restrictive clause here, so it's being properly used. Ace just needs to add a comma to make it correct.

Posted by: Warden at March 04, 2008 07:19 PM (QoR4a)

17 Well, it depends.

If Ace means "she doesn't have a story; she just has scattered anecdotes, and taken as a whole these anecdotes reveal nothing at all," then I'm right and it's restrictive--and the word should be *that.*

Perhaps Ace means "she doesn't have a story; she just has scattered anecdotes. Therefore, nothing at all is revealed." In that case, the word *which* is correct, but he needs a comma.

It hinges on whether there are other anecdotes out there that might reveal stories, and to which Ace might theoretically have been referring in the abstract, which necessitated his explaining that THESE particular anecdotes don't suggest a story.

I'm sure he'll get right on this and deliver a thoughtful answer to our editorial queries.

Posted by: Attila Girl at March 04, 2008 07:43 PM (ROU8v)

18 And maybe he'll condemn you all for a bunch of pussified OED-ist edumacated hobos and lead a party with a lvl 20/10 halfling thief/bard, a lvl 30 elf ranger, an undead puppy and several lvl 20/10 Marine fighter/wizards to hunt you down as a sacrifice to the Great God Gygax.

Hey, anything's possible.

Posted by: Greg at March 04, 2008 10:21 PM (cjwF0)

19 Creative Zen Converter,BlackBerry Video Converter,Mod Converter for Mac,Tod Converter for Mac

Posted by: hgfbvcn at March 10, 2009 08:34 PM (DURsg)

20 links of london
london links jewellery
links jewellers
london links
links necklaces
links bracelet
links charms
links rings
links earrings

Posted by: linksfromlondon at October 02, 2009 01:32 AM (x6SNH)

21 Buy Discount ugg shoes
ugg boots
boot ugg
mbt shoes
nike running shoes
cheap nike shoes
nike footwear
cheap nike footwear
nike air max shoes
FREE SHIPPING!

Posted by: NIKE AIR MAX at October 27, 2009 07:46 PM (sS5lD)

22 discount Discount Boots
Womens UGG
UGG Shoes
UGG Australia
UGG UK
UGG USA
discount ugg boots
cheap ugg boots
air force 1 shoes
Nike air force
air force 1 mens
air force 1 boots
air force onefree shipping

Posted by: discount ugg boots at November 01, 2009 03:27 AM (MlIdd)

Posted by: ugg boots at November 14, 2009 07:03 AM (s7MB5)

Posted by: replica watches at November 17, 2009 02:54 AM (xpuiO)

Posted by: replica watches at November 17, 2009 09:56 AM (xpuiO)

Posted by: replica watches at November 17, 2009 10:00 PM (xpuiO)

Posted by: replica watches at November 18, 2009 03:43 AM (C/zDM)

28 The proper function of man is to live, but not to exist.ugg classic cardyConquer fear of death and you are put into possession of your life. ugg classic tallThere is a time to speak and a time to be silent. ugg knightsbridgefree shippingmbt cheap
mbt sale
mbt uk
mbt shoes cheap
buy mbt shoes
shoes mbt sale

Posted by: mbtshoesbuy at November 25, 2009 02:32 AM (fd1jz)

Posted by: replica watches at December 04, 2009 11:29 AM (bsW/x)

30 The womens mbtchallenges the hard to reach
muscles in your legs, but also works the abdominal, back, buttock, and thigh muscles.
With every stride, the instability activates the whole body in concert and tones as it
stimulates different areas.mbt
footwear have a curved pivot sole that copies walking on soft moss. The sole of
href=http://www.mbtshoesbuy.com/products_new.html>new mbt turns even, flat ground
into uneven terrain. The mbt anti shoes challenges the muscles to work harder with
every step you take. The unique curved sole works by providing instability and makes
the muscles of your body more engaged and also helps burn more calories.
The mbt shoes walking shoes have been
highlighted for its ability to cushion your feet while challenging your muscles.
Clinical studies suggest that regular use improves balance, posture and circulation.
mbt lami shoes re-establish
the natural conditions for standing and walking.You will get more results out of your
workouts ? MBT shoes have technology in the sole design that make your working more
efficient and burn more calories. With every step, the instability activates your
muscles and the whole body is stimulated as your walk more and more.Free Shipping
1Week on Select Styles Of discount
mbt Walking Shoes Reviews !

Posted by: mbtshoesbuy at December 09, 2009 05:02 PM (B0M1x)

Posted by: wholesale jewelry at December 21, 2009 12:54 AM (1dySH)

32 Nike Air Max
hot sale nike shoes
nike air
buy Air Max shoes
nike max air

Posted by: cheap Air Max at December 25, 2009 12:07 PM (ZgK+c)

33 Support by UK shopping links of London earrings was intuitive and nowadays we have matured internationally with stores in 1990.links of londonThe party resulted from a clean exact for her wife, links londonJohn Ayton, founded the jewelry mark,links of london sale Links of London. Relations of London were founded in the UK, Hong Kong, links of london charms USA and Canada.links of london charms Links of London is one of the chief jewelry brands in the United Kingdom.links of london sweetie bracelet It lays a lot of weight on producing jewelry featuring newer, exceptional designs.It has been reported that silver tiffany & co was regularly melted to oxidization are general accessories. links of london braceletJewelry designs however did not been fixed;

Posted by: links of london at January 02, 2010 07:51 AM (jhDD/)

Posted by: replica watches at January 05, 2010 06:44 AM (ndMAX)

Posted by: nike air max at January 20, 2010 04:48 PM (CZv6h)

Posted by: air max shoes at January 28, 2010 05:46 AM (JOSIc)

37 Factors Replica Watches About The Rolex replica watches Oyster The Oyster is so closely get in touch with Rolex, and it is inevitably that some people think these are the only Replica watches Rolex manufacture. Others suppose that there is a single Oyster watch. But as a matter of fact, the name Oyster does not actually meant for a rolex Watches particular watch you can buy rolex watches or even to a series but to a type of case that available in some of the Rolex ranges. History The Oyster case was first released in 1926. The objective was to protect the workings of the watch from dust and moisture. Early watches were far from waterproof. The Oyster tag heuer Watchescase was an tag heuer watches innovative design to eliminate these problems. It had a new double locking crown that screwed into place. It has been compared to the hatch on a submarine. Like a submarine, the Oyster case was waterproof. In 1927 Mercedes Gleitze swam the English breitling Watches Channel breitling watches . Before she set off she was presented with a Rolex Oyster. When she arrived, the watch was still working perfectly. The resulting publicity gave the new case a massive boost. Why is it called Oyster? Legend has it that Hans cartier Watches Wilsdorf cartier watches, who invented the Oyster, chose the name because the new case reminded him of the difficulty he had experienced prising open oysters at dinner. Since then the Oyster has further, particularly advanced. Many Oyster watches today are omega Watches perpetual-self-winding, in other omega watches words, it does not require to expose the mechanism to the outside world in order to wind it. The Osyter Perpetual is one of the toughest, most durable, most reliable watches (under truly adverse conditions). It is probably the best mechanical watch money can buy.

Posted by: replica watches at February 05, 2010 11:31 PM (TUJDt)

Processing 0.02, elapsed 0.0297 seconds.
15 queries taking 0.0082 seconds, 46 records returned.
Page size 66 kb.
Powered by Minx 0.7 alpha.