1

Fred as VP would take a lot of sting out of a McCain ticket for me. I'd vote for McCain if he gets the nomination anyway. But I would feel a lot better with Fred on the boat.

Actually, I'd say the same thing about Romney and Rudy are each have their own baggage.

 

 

2 I would support McCain/Thompson, but only if McCain promises to die immediately after taking the Oath of Office.

3

...oh, and I also like Fred with the tie breaker vote in the Sentate.

 

4 How long until some pissed off Fredhead sues for fraud to get his/her campaign contribution back?

5

I would support McCain/Thompson, but only if McCain promises to die immediately after taking the Oath of Office.

Maybe he has a deal set up. Cheney will leave his cock behind in the top desk drawer before he returns to Asgard, and Fred will use it to annihilate McCain and the left side of the House at his first State of The Union address.

 

6 Blah, I don't buy it for an instant.

7 Cameron's lying?

8

Ah, and thus begins the next meme designed to undercut an actual conservative being anywhere near a high government position.

There's only one possible point to a post like this.  Even if it's not true, even if Fred had no interest in being Veep, if he were to consider it -now-, well then everyone will believe that it was his plan all along, and the "he cheated us" meme will make the rounds running over the scorched "he was lazy" meme.

I can't blame him for not being excited about campaigning, when his own side has done more to discredit and belittle him than the MSM has.

Qwinn

9 Big turn-off. I don't appreciate being misled.

Your analysis seems pretty solid, Ace. It does seem to make sense now. His kid-gloves approach, particularly with McCain most recently, seems like he was angling to retain favor with McCain at the expense of Huckabee who Fred would be sabotaging.

Seems like it could have been another trial balloon for a McCain/Thompson ticket. It's one, should it pan out, that I'll try to shoot down.

What a disappointment.

And what's this "sworn to silence" stuff? Are beat reporters going to report Presidential candidates or not!? Isn't Cameron kinda obligated to do a job and not feed campaign restricted info? The campaigns should shut their yaps, else, it's reportable. Cameron... do your job and don't hide these little bombshells that mislead voters who take the Presidency seriously.

10 Sorry, this sounds like horseshit to me. It's been pushed by way too many people from the start. I'm thinking it's sour-grapes if it did come from inside the campaign.

11 From a tactical standpoint, it kind of makes sense - given how long he's been out of politics (been out of the Senate for a while) - introduce yourself to the American people, and establish a national record and presence.

Serving as VP helped George H.W. Bush become a more platable Presidential candidate, especially to the party. (I think.)

I doubt the rumor, though. Who jumps into any race with the intention of  placing second?

12

I'm not accusing Cameron of lying, but he could be perceiving a conversation to fit his desires. I think this says more about his reporting than it does about Fred Thompson. Don't forget how many other "staffers" have made claims that political reporters carried that turned out to be bull pucky. The "Fred is going to quit after Iowa" crap leaps to mind.

However, even if what Camaron says is gospel truth, I got no problem with Fred over it. He is a practical man and probably always knew his strict conservatism wouldn't win the general public over like Reagan did, who balanced that out with a genuine nice-but-tough guy personna. Fred knows many people see him as cranky. 

And though I supported a Thompson/Romney ticket before, I can handle a Romney/Thompson one as well. I can't handle a Huckabee or Paul anything. I can deal with McCain, but I think he and Thompson would be a bit redundent. However, Romney/Thompson would be a nice mix of legal sholarship, business knowledge, and experience in state and federal government, IMHO.

 

Ray Robison is the author of Both In One Trench: Saddam's Secret Terror Documents

http://www.bothinonetrench.com

13 >>> The "Fred is going to quit after Iowa" crap leaps to mind.

Um, actually, I think that looks less like crap and more like credible reporting.

14 It's surprising if true. Definitely don't think Cameron is lying but I wouldn't mind finding out the name of the source.  I wouldn't hold it against him though, but I wasn't a Fredhead. If I were I might be a little pissed.

15 >>>And what's this "sworn to silence" stuff? Are beat reporters going to report Presidential candidates or not!? Isn't Cameron kinda obligated to do a job and not feed campaign restricted info? The campaigns should shut their yaps, else, it's reportable. Cameron... do your job and don't hide these little bombshells that mislead voters who take the Presidency seriously.

I was thinking that myself.  For a big story, "sworn to silence" gets trumped by "public's need to know."

I get penny-ante little scoops and stuff that I'm not allowed to mention, so I do know that giving one's word, personally, sometimes trumps other considerations... but still, this was sorta big. 

16

I also call BS. He could have gauged intrest in him as a VP at anytime during the nomination process with whoever the frontrunner was. Also by going after the VP slot lets say after Feb 5, the announcemenet as Thompson would have made a bigger splash. I think Cameron is full of shit, and if had that info the Fox should can his ass for not doing his Job.

17

My $.02:  Initially, Fred had an interest in being on the bottom of the ticket.  He floated a trial balloon.  It took off, to his great surprise. He had a decision to make.  He decided to go for the whole enchilada.  He crossed the Rubicon.  But he wasn't prepared.  His campaign was unprepared.  He did the best he could with what he had.  It wasn't enough.  Having made the decision he did, I find it hard to believe he'd accept a VP position.  And nothing about Cameron's blog contradicts that.

18 Posted by: angler at January 22, 2008 07:50 PM (kSuu1)

Sounds credible.  Why would Cameron lie?  There's no benefit in it for him.

19 I doubt the rumor is true as well.

But if so?  Why would this make a difference? Why would I feel cheated?

You just started this blog to rub O-Chub's nose in it, and discovered an unexpected demand for Paul Anka, Pat O'Brien meltdowns, potty-mouthed liberal bashing, and Hobo Hunting.   So you ramped up the blog to meet the demand.

I feel cheated, Ace.  I want all my money back.

20 That sounds plausible except the part about not accepting the VP spot now. WHy not? It happens all the time.

21 Oh, my mistake, I thought Fred quit after South Carolina, over two weeks and two primaries later. Guess Carl had it dead on after all, with that time machine Ace is using

22 >>> And nothing about Cameron's blog contradicts that.

Well, I do think Huckabee's right on this:  If you're willing to settle for Veep -- if in fact Veep is your real goal -- obviously you're not going to sweat not being President very much, yannow?

That would just be a bonus.

23 ray,

The report was that Fred was CONSIDERING dropping out of Iowa.  I don't see why that's so preposterous.

I never thought it was preposterous, myself.  He ramped up his campaigning schedue to make a serious (well, belatedly serious) stab at Iowa.  I would think it strange if someone, after getting little traction, *didn't* at least consider dropping out.

24

Sounds possible.  Doesn't bother me either.  A lot of politicians have run for office they didn't expect to win to set themselves up for the future.  Clinton was probably pretty surprised when he ended up with the presidency in 1992- he ran when Bush I looked unbeatable post-Gulf War and all the top Dems were sitting it out.  And this year, Bill Richardson ran a pretty transparent campaign for Hillary's Veep.

The thing that did bother me about Thompson is that he didn't really give it that much effort, even though it was clear that he had a decent shot.

25 Two options. This is either true, he started floating the VP wish and then got so caught up in the idea that maybe he could make himself even more wanted by running a half-hearted campaign and demonstrating some demand that he did just that, ran a half-hearted campaign or he ran one of the worst presidential campaigns in modern history.

Pick your poison.

26 What Ray Robison said: "I'm not accusing Cameron of lying, but he could be perceiving a conversation to fit his desires. I think this says more about his reporting than it does about Fred Thompson. Don't forget how many other "staffers" have made claims that political reporters carried that turned out to be bull pucky."

One furtive, sworn to secrecy conversation after CPAC does not make it true.

I mean, Stephen Glass wrote about all kinds of things going on at CPAC.  They could have been in some kind of crazy coke-fueled right wing polyandrous sex-orgy and Cameron just misheard.  "Pass the lube and pot" might have sounded like "Thompson's going for the VP slot".

27 see-dub,

Because you were kinda-sorta misled, that's why.  (Assuming it's true, of course.)

I'm not saying you SHOULD feel cheated.  I'm not arguing here.  I'm seeking information.  I was sorta into Fred but never a real Thompson guy so I'm just asking questions of you guys, like a reporter.

I have no idea if you feel cheated or burned or not.  I'm asking if you do.  If you don't, then Thompson can still be a decent VP pick.  If you do, then Thompson would hurt a ticket more than he would help.

Just asking.

I'm curious about it, that's all.  I'm not making pronouncements or dictating how anyone ought to feel, I'm guaging sentiment because I don't know but want to know.

28 I sent Fred money and I'm fine with him targeting the VP slot instead of the top job. I'd be happy to have someone who is ideologically close to me somewhere he can influence the administration like Cheney has. As others have noted, the "/Thompson" would take a lot of sting out of Giuliani, Romney, or McCain.

Hell, at this point I'd just like to get through 2012 with someone in the administration who a) isn't nuts and/or a blimp fan and b) has something that looks like principles. If I can't have it in the top slot, I'll take #2. Not exactly pure-bred conservatism, but at this point I'm in damage-control mode.

29 see-dub:

"Several insiders."

30

Ace,

Check your e-mail.

31

I warned all teh Fredheads I knew that he wasn't a serious candidate. I could never reconcile the fact that he quit acting to go into politics and then back into acting and then back into politics. That's not a very good endorsement in my view.

Although, he is the most successful quitter I've ever seen.

I agreed with a lot of what he said but then I rarely saw him say it anywhere except YouTube or AoSHQ.

 

32 Plus, we'd Jeri back!

33 I will believe it when Fred! confirms it. 

But even if it is true, isn't the VP the natural nominee once the current prez is finished?  I'm okay with him taking an indirect route to the nomination by delaying it 4-8 years.  It is just a different approach.

34 29 see-dub:

"Several insiders."

Ahem:  "crazy coke-fueled right wing polyandrous sex-orgy"

I rest my case. 

35 Cameron's lying?

Possibly, or mistaken, or misheard, or us using the words of another source and claiming them for his own. I don't buy it for an instant.

36 And sorry if my first reply sounded snappish--I just meant it as an explanation.  No, I don't really feel misled or cheated; he got in thinking he was VP material and found he was trying to ride a much bigger wave of conservative enthusiasm.  I don't blame him at all for trying to make the most of it.

37 Hell, I wish he'd kept being bold and decisive like that.  That was (sigh) teh Ferd! I fell in love with...

38 I will believe it when Fred! confirms it.

I don't think he would ever confirm it. It's the the sort of thing a politician ever really confirms. If he accepts the VP slot, that will be confimation enough for me.

39 "Pass the lube and pot" might have sounded like "Thompson's going for the VP slot".

Posted by: See-dubya at January 22, 2008 07:58 PM (CLmpi)

Okay, that's just ridiculously funny

40 see-dub,

it's okay, I just want fredheads to know I'm not baiting (like, um, other bloggers).

I had no real emotional investment in Fred.  So I don't know what effect this report would have on someone emotionally invested in him.  So I'm asking.

41 Why would anyone want the VP slot?  He'd be what, 69 in four years?  73 in 8?

I don't fault the man for taking it if offered.

42

http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=24267

"The rumor that Fred Thompson will quit the Republican presidential race if he finishes poorly in Iowa is not only false: it rises to the level of a political dirty trick aimed at reducing Thompson-backers� turnout in tonight�s Iowa caucuses.

The story, which began as a rumor and caught fire as a result of a piece in today�s Politico, said that Thompson was likely to quit after Iowa if he did poorly there, and might endorse Sen. John McCain before next week�s New Hampshire primary.  The article painted a glum, almost resigned mood among Thompson�s inner circle.  

Thompson and his top campaign advisor Rich Galen both denied the story�s claims today. "

43 >>I will believe it when Fred! confirms it.

Since this is a thread about questions, I have one. Why? Fred is a lawyer/lobbyist/actor/politician. Not one of those professions is known for it's high mindedness. What is it about Fred, who let's face it, was a pretty nondescript Senator and never a standard bearer for conservatism before this campaign, that generates this undying adulation from some people?

I honestly don't get it.

44

I'm not buying it.  I don't take journalists at their word and "cronies" seems out of place when not applied to the Clintons.  It sounds like he is trying to spice up or exaggerate.

45

lol. I left a comment here a while ago saying this was the first time I had seen a candidate run for VP. The VP doesn't do shit and Fred! could do it better than anybody.

46 Does Rich Galen know what he is doing? I was pretty excited when I heard he was working for Thompson, because I read Mullings regularly and I think Galen has the right ideas. It's very disillusioning to hear from so many sources that the Thompson campaign was such a train wreck.

47 Also, don't trash Fred! He did everybody in this nation a favor when he nailed Huck's ass to the wall. Long Live Thompson!

48 Mitt's woody just got an inch bigger.

49 Fred was my no. 2 guy, after Hunter. I honestly feel nothing. I am perhaps dead inside.

50 Ray,

Oh, a politician denied a damaging story.  My bad.

51 The only way this makes sense is if Fred figured that the Republican was going to lose this time, and he was looking to use the #2 slot on the ticket this time as a springboard for the 2012 nomination.

Otherwise, this sounds like an effort at some sort of political sabotage.

52 Fred '12 or Fred '16 isn't terrible to consider.

53 Ace, but the Politico never put forth a source. All kinds of dirty tricks going on and Cameron could have got caught by one as well, just saying....

54

It makes no difference to me what his initial intentions were.  I think the problem is that he makes a much less attractive VP candidate than Prez candidate, almost entirely due to his age.

Plus, McCain can't redeem himself no matter who he picks as veep, because he's way too arrogant to listen to and/or effectively use his veep.  He'll just tell Fred! to go hang out in a secure location with Jeri's boobs for 4 years.

If Romney gets the nod, I'd much rather see him pick someone young and dynamic as veep.  Picking Fred! would be fine, but I think he can make a better choice than that.

As to whether this is true or not, I have no opinion, and it really doesn't matter much to me either way.

55 Fred would be great Veep.  He's Cheneyesque.

56 I'd like him as veep, especially as a veep put in charge of the border problem.  And no, I don't feel 'betrayed', nor will I be asking for a refund on campaign contributions, even the one I made just a few days ago.  I think that even if he doesn't get the VP nomination, he moved the centerpoint of the candidates to the right, which hopefully moved where the final candidate will land to the right.

57 >>>The only way this makes sense is if Fred figured that the Republican was going to lose this time, and he was looking to use the #2 slot on the ticket this time as a springboard for the 2012 nomination.

>>>Otherwise, this sounds like an effort at some sort of political sabotage.

I think it makes perfect sense if he was really interested in the veepslot all along.   Why is that so hard to believe?  A lot of people run "for president" to be veep.  See Richardson, Bill and Huckabee, Mike.

58 Kaus and Traffic Non-Santa both just predicted Romney-Thompson as the Republican ticket on the Hewitt show, which I'm sure tickled the host to no end.

59 I think the story makes sense.

Fred's campaign always seemed opportunistic and not one that was trying to shape events.

First, there was the "whole will he, won't he" dance this summer.

Then he wasn't going to compete in Iowa when it looked like Mitt had it wrapped up. But when Huck ballooned up and there might be a chance to sneak in the middle if he and Mitt blew each other up (like Kerry did in '04), he put together a 17 day bus tour (in the middle of the holiday season.

Before that plan, he was going to sit out IA and NH and make his stand in SC on the assumption everyone would beat each other up in those races and it would be him and Mitt on ground favorable to him.

You could say he was thinking strategically but it just seemed he was always relying on something happening to other candidates and not making his own opportunities.

But he did kill Huck in SC and that ain't nothing, as they say. So thanks for that Fred.

60 >>>I think that even if he doesn't get the VP nomination, he moved the centerpoint of the candidates to the right, which hopefully moved where the final candidate will land to the right.

I don't know about that.  We'll see.  I worry that Fred has frozen a bloc of classic Reaganites from picking among the real candidates, and so the real candidates haven't bothered trying to woo them.

Maybe that will change now.

But it may be all but too late to stop McCain.  Who is, I guess, okay, but damn, you know he's at his happiest sticking the dagger of Straight Talk into our hearts.  And sometimes backs.

61 Given that, is Fred's thoughtful brand of consistent conservativism still attractive in the Veep slot?

Yep.  Senate tie breaker.  With Fred as VP, I might consider eating the McCain or Romney shit sandwich.  Still a no-sale with Huckabee though.

62

"A lot of people run "for president" to be veep.  See Richardson, Bill and Huckabee, Mike."

Well, Cheney didn't, and I can't remember but did Gore do this in '92? I know he ran in '88, but did he in 92? Did Bush Sr. run for Pres of was he picked for VP by Reagan. Whats the precedent here?

63 I don't see McCain having all that much momentum to be honest, he has fewer delegates than Romney, and lots of hate toward him.

Anyway I can't see Fred running again in 2012, that's gonna make him pretty old.

64
If Fred stopped Huckabee in South Carolina then I could care less his intentions.  He called a spade a spade when spades needed to be identified.

I'm good with that.  The dollars I sent him are good with that too.

65 I'll be a little annoyed if this is true, but I would still feel better if he was on the ticket.  It probably wouldn't help with my McAmnesty problem, though.

66

I dropped $100 on Fred and got a letter stating how they needed another $2k. I laughed because, well, I'm poor white trash, but I would have sent it if I had it to send.

I like Cameron, and I doubt he's lying, but now that the "conditions" of those conversations have been lifted...how about some names? Some titles? Perhaps the 'insiders' aren't exactly reliable. I mean, afterall, we're to believe that Thompson was so foolish as to openly discuss his thoughts about the VP slot but now, surprise! those in which he confided are less than worthy of keeping that confidence.

Thompson said months ago that the VP slot did not hold interest for him and, if this story is true, that one fact would be the only thing that would get my goat as it would show him to be dishonest.

Otherwise, I'd be damned glad to see at least one decent candidate on the ticket. Were it a Romney/Thompson ticket, even better. I'd have no qualms whatsoever about casting that vote.

Thus far, the only known fact with regard to this story is that there are 'insiders' within Thompson's camp that; a. Can't keep a confidence or, b. are lying their asses off.

67 Christopher Taylor,

Plus, and you may have made this point previously (I just don't remember), McCain's "popularity" has been predicated on success in very early positive returns in moderate/liberal states and ones with open primaries where indies play a weighted role. Once McCain gets to closed primaries, especially red states with closed primaries, McCain will get absolutely hammered if there's a conservative option. He is not liked by the base. At all. This also explains why the MSM is selling so intently the concept that McCain is the "best conservative." If they can drag him long enough for attrition to thin the field of conservatives, he might be the only one left standing come red state/closed primaries/West and South time.

Which is more the shame that Fred! didn't stick around for a couple more weeks. That actually supports the idea that he really didn't want the Presidency, that a default-VP selection outside of the most scrutiny would appeal to his desire to play a more laid back role. We'll get to see how well Giuliani does with his strategy of skipping the weak conservative states for the stronger ones... or at least ones with more pronounced conservative input as opposed to moderates who wouldn't mind a liberal (in the mold of Huckabee/McAmnesty).

68 History lesson: 

Al Gore technically "was" in the 1992 Democratic race, but he was waaaay far behind.  I mean, guys like Jerry Brown and Paul Tsongas were in front of him come Convention time.

69 Get this, Clinton chose Gore as his Veep to give him the "experience" factor.  Bob Graham (D-Florida) was his number 2. choice.

70 In 1980, people forget that Ted Kennedy tried to take his party's nomination away from the sitting President Carter.

Reagan's first Veep choice was Gerald Ford, but decided on "uniting the party" by taking Bush Sr. after Ford made too many demands on the potential administration.  (Cabinet seats for Kissinger and Greenspan, among others)

John Anderson ran as an independent after losing to Reagan in the primary.

71

Fred would be great Veep.  He's Cheneyesque.

Gotta disagree. I adore me some Cheney and would happily let him ravage me with his gargantuan love viper, but the absolute last thing any pubbie candidate needs is a veep who reminds people of him.

The electorate always tends to go for the new thing on the menu after 8 years of eating the same thing, so any candidate who offers what they perceive to be more of the same will be swimming upstream.

We need someone who is, substantively, Cheneyesque but who possesses no superficial resemblances to him. Fred meets the 1st requirement, but not the second. In essence, he's too Cheney to be stealth Cheney.

72 I guess what I am wondering is if this report is true, then how did Fred come to the conclusion that running for president would make him a strong VP contender? It doesn't seem to be a successful strategy in any meanigful way, except maybe the Al Gore run in 1992 as Techie states. I don't know why anybody would invest such time and money in a strategy that hadn't been proved out yet when he could have just as easily waited for a leader to emerge in the primary and throw an endorsement and some campaigning to vie for the VP spot. Anybody know of a successful VP using this tactic before? 

73 HW ran for president in 1980. I don't that he was aiming for VP though. It's about name recognition and capturing some portion of the Party to make yourself attractive to the candidate.

74

As a fredhead, I'm not bothered a bit. He's increased his name recognition enormously, hasn't pandered or bent his principles one bit and hasn't played McCain's game of currying favor with the msm.

If he's selected as the VP candidate, it will only help the ticket. And his being on the ticket after his 'trial run' will help it more far more than it would have if he'd hadn't run for the president's slot initially.

PS I'm still convinced that Obama started out his campaign as a way of becoming Hillary's VP choice, and that somewhat like Fred, his reception was so positive that he switched gears and is now running seriously for the presidential slot. Which won't stop him from being Hillary's VP selection in the final event.

75 runninrebel, yeah, that's just it, the people who I know of who ran for Pres who settled for VP, nobody is really saying it was a put-up for VP. Just a failed candidacy that gave them a boost. Don't know why this would be different just because Carl Cameran, who all but used a digital filter on Fred and most likely air brushed Fred from the still shots said so. 

76

I don't think it makes much sense for Thompson to have gone into this just to get the Veep job, especially if he's viewing it in its traditional light: as a springboard to the presidency.  He'll be too old.  He's already fought off cancer once.  He'll have to endure 8 years of watching "consistent conservatism" get the bum's rush by one of these other moderates and get tarred with the same brush that all the morons here will be painting with when Mitt (or whoever) floats his "Massachusetts miracle univeral health care coverage" scheme, or his "sensible assault rifle ban" with his good friend, Ted Kennedy.  Or whatever third way bullshit is coming down the pike if lightning strikes and someone with an (R) after their name wins.

No, he'll play Jeremiah, crying out in the political wilderness, after Obama takes the election by acclimation in November.

Oh, and it won't be the first time that a political beat reporter "misheard" some shit like this and then reported it later as fact, buttressed by sources who are "insiders".

77 It does seem a little strange to have the ambition to be VP, but just not quite enough to be president.

78 > How long until some pissed off Fredhead sues for fraud to get his/her campaign contribution back?

Believe it or not, I made my first donation to Fred this morning, about four hours before AoS informed me he'd dropped out. I hope he can use the money to buy a good steak and a few good beers. There's got to be a way to expense it to the campaign.

79

"Believe it or not, I made my first donation to Fred this morning, about four hours before AoS informed me he'd dropped out. I hope he can use the money to buy a good steak and a few good beers. There's got to be a way to expense it to the campaign."

yeah, I donated the other day as well, but I think he will have be content with a Happy Meal for my donation.

80 P.S. I meant that sincerely, not bitterly. I don't envy him his stint on the miserable campaign trail. I tried to watch a three-minute digest of the Hillary/Obama yapping match today and couldn't get past twenty seconds.

81 Another possibility is that someone on Fred's staff was secretly working for someone else trying to damage Fred's campaign by spreading rumors, hinting that he is lazy to journalists, not reading resumes, not getting back to prominent conservative bloggers.... anything is possible in Washington.  I suppose it is possible Fred only wanted to be a Vice President but why not play to win especially when the other candidates seem so beatable.   

82

I'm not saying "Ha-ha, you been bamboozled."

 

No, because that's my job.

 

 

83

That is very strange.

That would explain his not endorsing anyone. If he wants the VP spot then he can hardly endorse one of them now and then that one not get the nomination.

If McCain wins, I can't see him picking Thompson. I mean, he  needs someone youthful (Romney?)

If Romney wins then I can see it more.

84 I think it makes perfect sense if he was really interested in the veepslot all along.   Why is that so hard to believe?  A lot of people run "for president" to be veep.  See Richardson, Bill and Huckabee, Mike.

This does beg the question: Why would he want the veep slot all along? Does he enjoy state funerals or something? The typical reason you run for VP is to use the VP position as a springboard for the Presidency at a later date. That's clearly what Richardson and Huckabee are about. But Fred is too old for a 2016 run.

Now, Cheney had no presidential goals, but took the job based on a prior close relationship with Bush. Cheney expected to be adviser-in-chief to the President.

It now occurs to me that when I made my initial comment (#51), I was kind of focused on the possibility of a Romney/Thompson ticket. And I didn't see it as reasonable for Thompson to expect anything like the consideration from Romney that Cheney got from Bush. (so I ruled out the adviser-in-chief motivation).

But, if we're talking about a McCain/Thompson ticket, Thompson might be angling to be a VP/uber-adviser as well. You'd expect an immediate endorsement of McCain in that case though.

85

If I had changed career tracks to work for Fred's campaign, and if this story is true, I'd have a bad taste in my mouth for, oh, about a year.

Interrupted only by the bile I'd have to slug back when I cast my eventual vote for ... whoever.

86 >>What is it about Fred, who let's face it, was a pretty nondescript Senator and never a standard bearer for conservatism before this campaign, that generates this undying adulation from some people?

I am a FredHead.  But my skepticism about this story is that in politics anything goes.  It isn't about Fred!  It is about the rumors and inside sources that all too often amount to a pile o' crap.

87

Please!  This is such crap.  Do any of you really think Carl Cameron would have let his great friend Jim Mills leave a lucrative position at Fox for Fred if he was told this by anyone?

Fox and Campaign Carl are full of $&!^

88 Hmm, I used to know somebody named Tim Buckley.

89

1. I don't know if this is true.

2. Even if it is, it doesn't bother me in the least.

Why should it? I haven't been lied to. If Fred thought about an active VP spot, then realized he had a chance to take the Presidency, why shouldn't he go for it? The fact that the he may not have realized his true chances until late in the game might help explain the disorganized and ineffective campaign.

Why should we be interested in an X/Fred ticket? Why should any of you be interested in a VP of any kind, ever? The VP does nothing, never has done anything, and never will. Cheney is the exception and we won't see it happen again, ever. So quit thinking that some enemy of Free Speech like McCain somehow becomes palatable if he chooses a stooge that doesn't make you want to barf in your Cheerios.

90 Hmmm. Well, McCain on spending, Thompson on the border would be OK, I guess.

Romney just does nothing for me. He's like warm mashed potatoes, pleasant but bland. And he is way, way too fond of government "help."

91 Carl's story is suspect until his sources are fully revealed.  I don't think he is lying.

As for anger at Fred, nope.  I'm angry at myself for substituting wishful thinking for hard-headed reasoning.  Fred tried to shimmy and saunter his way into the presidency.  You can't get there that way.  You have to run for it. 

Fred is the kind of guy the Nation would hire as President, but he is not the kind of guy the Nation would elect as President.  Hiring and electing are not the same thing and Fred has learned the difference.

Mitt and Rudy are acceptable alternatives.  Maccheese and Huckycream are not.
So Fred, endorse either Mitt or Rudy and then insist to them the price is they will be the ticket in the Fall.

92 I think I'm tracking with the other Fredheads.  The dude doesn't owe me the secret  thoughts in his heart of hearts.  He said what needed to be said.  He had a record that made it more credible than Mitt saying those same things.  If he would have accepted the job, he didn't deceive me.  The votes just didn't happen and the lesson is that you don't really do a presidential campaign without doing a whole lot of groundwork first.

I do like the impulse to blame the candidate better than the theory that the voters are stupid and let us down.  I don't believe the guy is lazy but I do think he failed to show passion for the job.  I like a guy who serves reluctantly much more than one who grasps for office as a validation of his ego. (Every other Senator running for Prez: I'm looking at you.)  But I think people sense that it takes a lot of drive to carry the ball past your adversaries.  Fred didn't show it and even people who loved the Reaganite message stayed away in droves.

So, no.  I'm not mad at Thompson in the least.  I don't think he's done any harm; just pushing his message during the primaries was a service.  But I do plan on completing a very thorough and ironic drinking binge before getting in line behind Mitt in the morning.

93 Fred reportedly likes to drink warm buckets of spit too.

94 Actually, James Nance Garner's original quote about the vice presidency was that it "was not worth a warm bucket of piss".

95

"This does beg the question: Why would he want the veep slot all along?"

Because it is a sweet job.  You  don't really have to do anything and  if you feel like doing something  or have an opinion you call the President and tell him. Just hang out, drink up and throw parties. It's the best job in America..

96 Why would we be mad?  I know most of us were willing to out-and-out draft him if he didn't declare. So we got exactly what we were buying: someone we were trying to drag kicking and screaming into a terrible job he didn't want, but that (in our view) he was uniquely qualified to fill by temperment and adherence to ideology.  If I'm mad at anyone, it's myself and the other Fredheads - we obviously didn't do enough to sell that platform to the rest of the electorate, INCLUDING the candidate.  My opinion of Fred might stay the same, and might even go higher.

I think the tipping point for possibly going in the other direction would be who he ends up being the nominee for. If it's McCain, it will probably start to feel like a cheap stunt, being that they're old friends and McCain works so hard to cultivate a contrary image. If it's anyone else - and Fred accepts an offer - he'll look a lot more like a principled conservative counterweight to any fears that the other guy is too liberal or isn't sincere.

For the sake of my affection for him, and for the sake of the coalition he was trying to hold together (in as much as he was "trying" to campaign), Fred better hope somebody other than McCain wins.

97 I'll go one step further: if the splitsville races continue and we end up in a brokered convention, we now know for certain who the REAL best man for the job is.  Keep the engines idling, Fred just became the darkest horse we could find.

98 And just since I'm waxing so lyrical ...

I cannot fathom supporting McVain.  The man is an ego-driven, unprincipled horse's ass who has made a point out of sticking his thumb in our eyes for as long as I can remember.  His main claims for support within the GOP are that it's his turn and he did good things in the war of his youth.  On this, he's Bob Dole without the grace or humor.  Sure, he wants to fight the war - but how?  Even Democrats were saying we needed more troops when McVain was - Senator Spotlights just didn't change his mind when the strategy was implemented.  Fine enough, but that's offset by his bleating over waterboarding, judicial access for prisoners of war, etc.  He's a fiscal squish, an opponent of free speech and a big government guy.  Screw him.

Rudy's cooked.  His appeal is based on a projected sense of strength - you might be able to tolerate the 25% of things he's wrong about because he can advance the ball so far with regard to the other 75%.  But he's not looking all that strong since adopting a strategy of just standing aside in hopes of being the last man standing when the other candidates have worn themselves out.  He's exactly the wrong kind of candidate to hope that the rest of us will push him back out to the front of the pack.  We only tolerated him being there because he looked tough enough to stay on his own.

I considered supporting Huckabee but realized that I'd first have to change my polling place to some inner circle of Hell and the cold weather there would probably keep me home anyway.

Which leaves Doktor Science and Mitt.  Easy call but something tells me it's going to be a tough year for us.

Time for another drink.

99 Egads, without any hope for real conservatism coming any time soon, withdrawal symptoms are starting again.  I'll think I'll join you in that drink, VRWC.

100

Did Bush Sr. run for Pres of was he picked for VP by Reagan.

Wasn't Bush the front runner for a while ahead of Reagan before falling behind in delegates and accepting the VP slot?

 

101 I am so glad I didn't go nuts for Fred.  I sorta liked him but something held me back.  I am not totally easy with a guy who would accept money for a presidential bid he didn't really have any intention of going for.  And perhaps he wasn't easy with it either.

102

If this is true, I am gonna feel real used. Still, I suppose I have done far worse things for my country than get used by a Presidential wannabe.

I can't figure why he'd want the Veep job though.

 

103

I can't figure why he'd want the Veep job though.

Maybe he didn't think he had a shot at the big chair this election and hoped to establish credibility for a later run?

104 I just think it's funny that Pajamas Media is still desperately-running that "information revolution" Thompson-ad (which says absolutely-nothing!). I suspect we're in a countdown to the kissing of a different butt now, though, and from the look$ of thing$ it'll be Mitt'$. JMR

105

Why should we be interested in an X/Fred ticket? Why should any of you be interested in a VP of any kind, ever? The VP does nothing, never has done anything, and never will.

Actually, Veep nominations send signals--strong ones. They also mend fences and rifts within a party. Uncle Ron initially considered Jerry Ford as Veep to mend the 1976 rift, but then Jerry Ford talked as if it would be a con-presidency and Uncle Ron balked. To mend fences with the Northeastern Rockefeller RINOs, he picked George Bush, who was also his strongest primary rival.

So quit thinking that some enemy of Free Speech like McCain somehow becomes palatable if he chooses a stooge that doesn't make you want to barf in your Cheerios.

True, Amnesty John, the McManchurian McCandidate, is beyond the pale with me too. But Fred! as a Veep in order to ameliorate concerns that Mitt is too much of a squish? That would work very well. I do hope Mitt is talking to Fred.

If Tancredo could look at the field and endorse Mitt, that tells me all I need to know. And if Fred! was truly the Reluctant Candidate as this story indicates, then the lack of support from conservative hardliners makes a lot of sense.

 

106 Actually, Veep nominations send signals--strong ones.

Not really, but people take it as that. The thing is, that does nothing for the VP whatsoever. It just makes the candidate look good, and how's that help Fred? He's got an acting career, he's doing fill in on radio, he's got a regular column, how does he gain by being someone's meaningless second banana?

107

Actually, Veep nominations send signals--strong ones. They also mend fences and rifts within a party.

Right, yes. But people keep saying that they would vote for candidates that they find ideologically unacceptable if a good choice in VP was made. This makes no sense to me at all, since the VP has no policy-making power of any kind, save for the occasional tie-breaking vote, unless the President intentionally involves him. And a President is not going to hand over policy-making power to a VP with whom he disagrees strongly on policy, which is the scenario people are describing here.

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