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Huckabee: Constitution Must Be Changed To Conform With "God's Standards"

At Exurban League.

"[Some of my opponents] do not want to change the Constitution, but I believe it's a lot easier to change the Constitution than it would be to change the word of the living God, and that's what we need to do is to amend the Constitution so it's in God's standards rather than try to change God's standards."
— Mike Huckabee, campaigning in Michigan last night.

This statement should shock every American to their very core. It is theocracy, pure and simple.

To those evangelical Christians supporting Huckabee, ask yourself this: What if Hillary or Obama said this line while speaking in a left-of-center church? Or Mitt said it to an LDS ward? Rudy to a Catholic assembly, or a Muslim congressman to a mosque? How would you feel if a presidential candidate was promising to revise the Constitution — the foundational legal document of this nation — to comply with the theological dictates of Rome, Salt Lake City or Mecca?

I don't have much of a problem with religion-based policy impulses. All of our impulses come from somewhere, after all, and I don't see why a religious person's core beliefs should affect his worldview less than my own secularist/humanist worldview. The left's insistence that only secular beliefs should impel policy stances is inconsistent but convenient in that it would, if accepted, lead to a secularist-only public polity.

However, I prefer such prescriptions to be couched in secularist terms. There are numerous reasons to be pro-life or pro-traditional-marriage that don't have much to do with religion. It's not deceptive, I don't think, to argue in terms of sound policy, without mention of God, even if, at root, it is a belief in God's will that ultimately leads one to embrace those non-religious rationales for one's positions.

I have little doubt that most pro-lifers believe as they do because God, they think, and not 18th century Jeffersonian political thinking, supports the pro-life position. And yet when arguing about this I strongly prefer arguments which do not explicitly invoke an appeal to the ultimate authority, God Himself.

Is this a distinction without a difference? I don't know, but I'm inclined to think it isn't. An argument based on the physical and moral, and not the metaphysical, can appeal to or possibly persuade all, not only those who believe in a certain interpretation of a particular holy text.

I find Huckabee's express reliance on the What Would Jesus Do style of policymaking 1) alienating, 2) a crass attempt at identity politics, 3) self-defeating, as it loses as many supporters as it gains, and 4) characteristically glib and shallow and lazy. I hope I do not offend any religious readers when I say of all possible policy arguments, "Well this is what God wants and that's all there is to it," is the easiest and laziest of all.

I don't know if this is theocracy per se, but it does seem walking up to that line. I don't mind, not at all, sharing a party with those whose politics are shaped greatly by a belief in God (and a particular belief in what God would deem the Just and Good Society). I have a bit of problem with those who nakedly offer only God's vision of the Just and Good Society (as they see it, at least) as a reason for supporting a policy.

It's also a bit disquieting. As they say, you can't reason someone out of a position he wasn't reasoned into in the first place, that is, you can't use fact, logic, or likelihood to argue someone out of a position that is accepted purely on faith, whether of the religious or quasi-religious sort (global warming, etc.) With Mike Huckabee admitting that his belief as to what God wants is such an outsized part of his political thinking, how on earth would you argue a man out of wrongheaded policy? If it's really what God wants, what have piddling earthly arguments to do with it?

Color me a bit skeptical that Mike Huckabee is now anti-amnesty. After all, just a year or two ago it was What God Wanted to offer illegals in-state tuition and other benefits. I can't imagine that God Himself has changed his mind on this, even though Mike Huckabee claims that he himself, and God Himself, apparently did.

Posted by: Ace at 04:18 PM



Comments

1 Huckabee can fail on his own merits, well enough.

William Jennings Bryan would like a word with the n00b.

Posted by: Techie at January 15, 2008 04:25 PM (AV8Z6)

2

The governor from Arkansas just signed a  DEATH WARRANT.

Posted by: oneolcop at January 15, 2008 04:26 PM (HDR6d)

3 Eh, it's just his shtik to keep the evangelicals who support him from facing the reality which he, and everybody else in the world seems to know: that there isn't going to be any amendments to the constitution for anything.

Posted by: runninrebel at January 15, 2008 04:29 PM (0n9wc)

4 I'm still anticipating that this rhetoric will continue and culminate into a Fire and Brimstone speech after he loses in Michigan and SC.

That's gonna be sweet.

Posted by: runninrebel at January 15, 2008 04:32 PM (0n9wc)

5

Behold the laws.

 

Posted by: Joe Mama at January 15, 2008 04:32 PM (QA8jC)

6 The only argument you can mount against him is "my God says you're wrong" and let him try and defend the truthiness of his Supreme Being.

Posted by: mike at January 15, 2008 04:34 PM (JalPh)

7 HUCKABEE. Our constitution must be scrapped in favor of one that has ANIMAL RIGHTS,RIGHTS FOR FREE ABORTIONS,RIGHTS FOR KIDS TO LEAVE THEIR PARENTS,RIGHTS FOR MEDICLY ASSISTED SUICIDES,RIGHTS TO ENTER THIS NATION ILLEGALY,RIGHTS TO RUN AROUND NAKED,RIGHTS TO BE STUPID LIKE HIM AND OTHER LIBERAL WACKY WAD PIN HEADS

Posted by: Spurwing Plover at January 15, 2008 04:34 PM (lIqve)

8 "...and that's what we need to do is to amend the Constitution so it's in God's standards rather than try to change God's standards."

And that's the end of that. Can't say we didn't have a good run, though. **sigh**

Posted by: Huckabee's Campaign at January 15, 2008 04:35 PM (Y0gTb)

9 Well put Ace.

As an evangelical Christian, the sort of thing Huckabee is spouting is chilling.  Heck, our various churches can't even agree between ourselves on what constitutes God's will for our personal lives (which the Bible speaks to in much detail), much less what constitutes a "Good and Just Society" (which the Bible doesn't even attempt to define outside of Israel in the OT).

Though I may share many of his core Christian beliefs, I can virtually guarantee that I would disagree with some of his interpretations of what the Bible says about how we run our society.  That is not only annoying--it's frightening, and it's repellent that this guy is posturing as the authority and interpreter of "What God Wants For America".

I never thought I'd say this, but better Hillary than this clown.




Posted by: Kevin Canuck at January 15, 2008 04:36 PM (sS03U)

10 How would an effort to  'amend the Constitution so it's in God's standards' differ from implemention the Christian version of sharia law? 

Posted by: PHenry at January 15, 2008 04:40 PM (ZCbq9)

11 This is why evangelicals/fanatics cannot be trusted in positions of power, they will ALWAYS subordinate the oath they take to defend the constitution to their own religious beliefs. After all GOD SAID IT so a little thing like the US constitution is irrelevant. The danger with this idiot is that there may be enough evangelical nitwits in the GOP to get him on the ticket.

Posted by: thatguy at January 15, 2008 04:44 PM (t42kf)

12 That's it. You're dogmeat, pal.
                   
                    /Hudson

Posted by: Vercingetorix at January 15, 2008 04:45 PM (N8eC4)

13 From a christianet.com Mike Huckabee interview:

While he makes it look easy, Huckabee revealed that it is a constant challenge to keep the faith and work balance on a daily basis.

"Maintaining balance between my personal faith and the many pressures that one experiences in the political arena is the biggest challenge I face," He told ChristiaNet. "I have to make sure that I stay fresh with my personal walk with God. At the same time, I don't use the law or my position to impose faith. I certainly feel the freedom to share my faith and use it as a point of influence, but I have to stop just short of ever coercing people into a point of view because I have a position of authority."

Posted by: mrp at January 15, 2008 04:45 PM (HjPtV)

14 Here's the thing.

If God says "This is the right policy," that is because the particular policy is the best way to do things. Therefore, it should be possible to confirm by empirical study that the particular policy is, in fact, the best. Indeed, there is a lot of research out there that does precisely that, in realms such as the sociological effects of strong families and so on.

Ergo, God's will should have no overt place in secular politics, since it can be buttressed by scientific research.

Posted by: Mastiff at January 15, 2008 04:46 PM (yKeTI)

15 Other conservative politicians in the past have referenced religion when pushing for certain policies. But it's disturbing when Huckabee does it because given the fact that he's a minister and his previous governing record, we're inclined to believe he really means it. The problem is that religion-based policies are not generally amenable to debate or compromise. That makes them a bad fit for democracies. Who going to win out when a majority of the american people oppose God's policy?

Posted by: Maetenloch at January 15, 2008 04:47 PM (Jryku)

16

Fundamentalist-types always run into this problem because they found churches based solely on a "strict reading" of the Bible. In so doing, they ignore a couple thousand years' worth of scholarship, people (mainly Roman/Orthodox/Anglican Catholics) who've studied the texts and history intensely, making mistakes along the way and correcting each other, and subjecting what they've found to review and discussion before laying down their catechism.

You get some guy starting up a mega-church, he has nothing but his own divinity degree behind him. So when he takes up his "strict reading" approach, he has, oh, a couple thousand years' worth of potential errors ahead of him before he arrives where orthodox Christians have been all along.

The problem is, the fundamentalist ends up reading his own ideas into the scripture. It's entirely natural; anyone will do the same, working on his own. But then he drags a thousand followers along. And we're back to making the same blunders it took the great councils centuries to resolve.

God has a place in our governing principles, but I don't trust Huckabee for one minute to decide how He fits in.

Posted by: Michael Rittenhouse at January 15, 2008 04:49 PM (zS9LP)

17 Interesting point about his amnesty position.  Funny how God amends his stances to reflect the current political climate.  See:  Mormons on polygamy, Egyptian priests on Ptolemy being divine...

Posted by: Secundus at January 15, 2008 04:50 PM (ttFq9)

18 I don't know what's worse -- atheist socialism, or theocratic socialism. 

Posted by: Phinn at January 15, 2008 04:52 PM (NLtoU)

19 Hey, if you question the wisdom of editing the foundation document of this country based on his flavor of religion's interpretation of God's will it means you are anti-Christian.

Posted by: steve_in_hb at January 15, 2008 04:52 PM (7FHPf)

20

I have to stop just short of ever coercing people into a point of view because I have a position of authority.

RESPECK mah AUTHORITEH!!

Posted by: Cartabee at January 15, 2008 04:53 PM (GFaLW)

21

I don't know if it's theocracy per se either, but it sure pours fuel on the fire for people who see one lurking, and to your point it's off-putting, unnecessary and counter productive.  I agree (said something similar in an earlier thread) this kind of rhetoric is a feeble attempt to shut down debate with an appeal to authority instead of a reasoned argument.

I hope I do not offend any religious readers when I say of all possible policy arguments,

It's not suck up to ace day today (I don't think, I didn't get the 08 planning calendar), but no, that isn't the least bit offensive to me.  I'd add for a guy whose worldview is secularist/humanist, you consistently demonstrate (IMHO) a pretty open and respectful acceptance for the religious viewpoint held by many.  I appreciate that.  I'm too lazy to look it up but your post a couple of years ago on Christian symbols in the public square was a good example, not that there aren't many (including this post).

 

Posted by: Dave in Texas at January 15, 2008 04:55 PM (pzen5)

22 Jeez, Dave. That was unseemly.

Posted by: spongewing plover at January 15, 2008 04:59 PM (a00go)

23 mrp,

Good catch. It's going to be a bit difficult for Huckablech to square this circle:

"...At the same time, I don't use the law or my position to impose faith. I certainly feel the freedom to share my faith and use it as a point of influence, but I have to stop just short of ever coercing people into a point of view because I have a position of authority."

with this revelation:

"...and that's what we need to do is to amend the Constitution so it's in God's standards rather than try to change God's standards."

Maybe he'll borrow Jesus' carpenter skills to do the shaving... or beg/pray for a miracle.

Posted by: Huckabee's Campaign at January 15, 2008 04:59 PM (Y0gTb)

24 I don't really mind someone telling an evangelical audience that the Bible teaches certain laws should/shouldn't be passed.  In order to get a consensus, though, good secular arguments are needed to win over the humanist crowd.  It's called building a coalition: the so-cons, econocons, defensicons.  You need to convince them all in order to succeed nationally.  I think that's why Huck will ultimately fail.  He's only "appealing" to one leg of the stool.

Posted by: jd at January 15, 2008 04:59 PM (iXWYc)

25 Whoops. Sockpuppet got away from me there.

#23's mine.

Posted by: AnonymousDrivel at January 15, 2008 05:01 PM (Y0gTb)

26 It's not suck up to ace day today (I don't think, I didn't get the 08 planning calendar), but no, that isn't the least bit offensive to me.

Suck up to ace day is February 20th this year.

Posted by: Slublog at January 15, 2008 05:04 PM (R8+nJ)

27

I have posted this before, but listen to the man:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gP0g4T-Egqk

At one point he even says that the only reason he is a republican is because he is pro-life. He wants to move the country "back" to our christian roots by adding amendments.

Posted by: bleh at January 15, 2008 05:05 PM (/InkS)

28

Suck up to ace day is February 20th this year.

I thought it was February 30th every year.

Posted by: Rocketeer at January 15, 2008 05:06 PM (GFaLW)

29 This statement should shock every American to their very core. It is theocracy, pure and simple.

Shrug, that's not particularly theocracy, it's just someone with strong beliefs wanting the nation to adhere to those beliefs. Everyone who runs for president has that point of view, he's just being open and honest about it and attributing those beliefs to his version of what God thinks. That's neither good nor bad in and of its self; where it takes on a character of morality or propriety is what he wants done.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at January 15, 2008 05:07 PM (hfyfI)

30

Ace, this post is just outstanding, one of the best you have ever done! (February 20th is not a good day for for me to suck up to ace, so I am doing it today.)

Posted by: Mikeyslaw at January 15, 2008 05:10 PM (yrptY)

31 Why go through the bother of amending the Constitution when the Great Huckster has the healing touch?

Posted by: John at January 15, 2008 05:20 PM (cXlCg)

32 If Jesus were standing right next to me, I'd shove Huckabee down a flight of stairs, complete with the tin cans so it'd sound like one of those sound effects. And I believe in turning the right cheek in Spiritual matters. But this is no Spiritual matter; it's affecting the lives of millions to their detriment, which far outweighs me hurling this dingus down the stairs.

Posted by: art at January 15, 2008 05:21 PM (q/BUE)

33 "I didn't get the 08 planning calendar"

I believe the co-bloggers' calendar has every day marked as "Suck Up to Ace Day".

Posted by: someone at January 15, 2008 05:24 PM (2z2WN)

34 No, it's not theocracy per se, because in a theocracy, you'd have to put a church explicitly in charge of the government, such as making the Pope POTUS.

It is, however, a flavor of fascism, which, <a href="http://liberalfascism.nationalreview.com">according to Jonah Goldberg</a>, is any attempt to thoroughly impose, through the apparatus of the State, a set of "morals," whether they come from the Bible, the Koran, Origin of the Species, Das Kaptial, or Sesame Street.

See, in LDS theology, the reason that Lucifer was cast out of heaven was that he wanted to force everyone to be good, thereby saving all of us, with "no child left behind," instead of allowing us to choose good or evil ourselves, which is God's plan.

It's just  the desire for easy salvation on the part of the voters and malignant narcissism on the part of those who want to deliver it. That goes for Hillary and Obama and Edwards and all the other "progressives" who will stop at nothing to save us from ourselves. As long as they get to be The Savior, of course. I doubt there's a bigger head rush than that.

Posted by: dicentra at January 15, 2008 05:26 PM (HyYBP)

35

I never thought I'd say this, but better Hillary than this clown.

When people say that about Rudy or Romney or McCain, it pisses me off. This guy? Eh, not so much.

 


 

Posted by: TiredWench at January 15, 2008 05:38 PM (Kx1hM)

36 Evangelicals love Huckabbe !!
This is the single largest base in the Republican party.

Posted by: john Ryan at January 15, 2008 05:43 PM (TcoRJ)

37

"See, in LDS theology, the reason that Lucifer was cast out of heaven was that he wanted to force everyone to be good, thereby saving all of us, with "no child left behind," instead of allowing us to choose good or evil ourselves, which is God's plan."

Since you brought up the LDS theology, I have a few questions.

-From what I have been told the LDS church says there is no hell. Other christians seem to believe that lucifer/Satan lives in hell where he will torture you forever if you don't join their specific church and accept christ. Where do mormons think Satan resides? What happens to the non-mormons according to your church?

-What % of mo's define people as either mormon or anti-mormon?

-How similar are your (LDS membership and more importantly leadership)opinions to Hucks as far as moving the country towards your religion? Is it acceptable to try and create some sort of biblical standard through government?   

Posted by: bleh at January 15, 2008 05:53 PM (/InkS)

38 I'm an evangelical...despite my statement above which might show otherwise. But in political matters; SEPARATE FROM POLITICAL MATTERS, I'm a conservative first with no second choice. Huckabee is a danger to this nation. Conservatives used to be the - I hate to use this freaking word - base of the party. Hell, the vast majority of the party I would say. The more fractious 'groups' that are allowed to steer and influence the fundamental stances of the Republican party, the more the Republican party looks like the *ick* Democrats. That is why I left the party in 2004, after Bush's Prescription Drug Entitlement. I was willing to stay with them till then. The more the Democrats shift to the left, the further to the left the 'middle' is that the Republicans try to score with.

Posted by: art at January 15, 2008 05:53 PM (q/BUE)

39 I meant separate from Spiritual matters...oops.

Posted by: art at January 15, 2008 05:59 PM (q/BUE)

40 ryan, the polls I've seen have him getting about a third of the evangelical vote. How does this translate into overwhelming support?

Posted by: anon at January 15, 2008 06:05 PM (WuPk/)

41 Huckabee just proved that he is not a thinking man. I am sure he meant well, but that was a stupid thing to say. If you read the writings of  the Founding Fathers, amongst them were various individuals who thought they were doing God´s work. If you notice, though, none of them appealed to God as a motive to ratify the Constitution. They appealed to Reason, because they understood the Constitution to be eminently reasonable. They would have probably been offended by his comments on the Constitution. While they would have realized that he has every right to offend them, they probably would have dismissed him as not being worthy of their time.

Posted by: Harry at January 15, 2008 06:12 PM (6VPHl)

42 Bleh wrote: "...Other christians seem to believe that lucifer/Satan lives in hell where he will torture you forever if you don't join their specific church and accept christ...."

Just to clarify: the Bible teaches that Satan is here on earth.  He won't be doing any torturing in hell as he is the prime reason that hell was invented---as a punishment area for Satan and his angels.

It's an easy mistake to make---confusing Egyptian/Greek/Roman/etc beliefs with Christianity.

Posted by: jd at January 15, 2008 06:12 PM (iXWYc)

43

Huckabee is getting to be really really annoying. I can't claim Jesus as my personal Savior,  and neither can I claim adherance to the Constitution. Since I am a Mormon, Gov. Huckabee doesn't believe that I am a Christian and feels the need to tell me that my moral code is lacking. Now I find out that, according to him (or should I say Him) the Constitution is also flawed.

Posted by: elliott m at January 15, 2008 06:16 PM (xj5FC)

44 John Ryan, I'm an evangelical Baptist like Huckabee, yet I'm the one who wrote the Exurban League piece ripping his disgusting religious pandering. This country was founded on freedom of religion and I don't want this guy forcing his religious beliefs down my throat even if I agree with most of them. I have yet to meet an evangelical who supports this crank, but sadly 30 percent seem to.

We all worship God (or not) as we see fit. And we don't need a President Huckamullah to tell us "the right way" to do it.

Posted by: Exurban Jon at January 15, 2008 06:27 PM (3GwKL)

45

The thirteen original states were founded, for the most part, by people fleeing the religious turmoil in England.  I think a theology/divinity student ought to take a few classes in sixteenth, seventeenth, and eighteenth century English history, and they might begin to understand why the descendants of those refugees wrote the US Constitution with a specific provision for 'no religious tests'.

Neutrality is what they wanted from the new federal government - and for darned good reasons.

Posted by: Mikey NTH at January 15, 2008 06:31 PM (kAnhF)

46 "You can't legislate morality"

I don't know who said it, but he was correct.

Huchabee is a moron if he thinks he can through Constitutional Amendments, and I don't care how many Huckabangelicals he has supporting him, the majority of America is not going to go along with it.

Posted by: Mr Minority at January 15, 2008 06:34 PM (rV8wK)

47 Exurban Jon:  The Anglicans had fun in England when they had control, and the Puritans had fun when they were.  I agree with your article - no way do I want government here claiming that the divine is now subject to the state.  Gathering various powers together is what a totalitarian state does, and I prefer the US system of keeping various power bases seperated.  Life is much safer that way.

Posted by: Mikey NTH at January 15, 2008 06:38 PM (kAnhF)

48 "Is this a distinction without a difference? I don't know, but I'm inclined to think it isn't. An argument based on the physical and moral, and not the metaphysical, can appeal to or possibly persuade all, not only those who believe in a certain interpretation of a particular holy text."

You are right. It is the difference between conservative republican democracy and theocracy.

Posted by: potosi Joel at January 15, 2008 06:38 PM (TPRbZ)

49 You can't legislate morality

Depends what you mean by this. You can't make people good through the force of law, but almost every law that is created is based on some moral judgement: it is wrong to do this, so we as a society will sanction it legally.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at January 15, 2008 06:41 PM (hfyfI)

50 Depends what you mean by this.

I mean you cannot enact a law and force people to accept the morals of a religious group. It won't work and it is wrong.

I am pro-life, but I am also smart enough to realize that in today's society it would impossible to pass a Constitutional Amendment outlawing abortion. And I am also smart enough to realize that if the Federal Gov't were to allow States to decide this issue for themselves, the outcome were be that would be states that do, and states that don't because the people themselves decided the issue.

Posted by: Mr Minority at January 15, 2008 06:49 PM (rV8wK)

51 Mikey, we agree completely. And thanks for the link!

We have enough trouble swinging between Dems and Republicans every four to eight years. Can you imagine switching beliefs systems along with them?

Posted by: Exurban Jon at January 15, 2008 06:51 PM (3GwKL)

52

God's Standard™ would still need 2/3rds of both houses and 38 states approving. 

I'm untroubled at the prospect.

Posted by: toby928 at January 15, 2008 06:53 PM (evdj2)

53

The mind would boggle, Exurban Jon.  It would be as bad as the Soviet system:

"Comrade Brother, you are not politically religiously reliable."

No thanks, law enforcement has enough to do already.  Monitoring mens' souls?  Again, no thanks.

Posted by: Mikey NTH at January 15, 2008 07:03 PM (kAnhF)

54 True Republicans Barry Goldwater and Teddy Roosevelt warned us about injecting religion into American politics. After the decimation of our party by W and Lott and Delay and the rest of the Southern Republicans, if Huckabee is the nominee I fear they’ll be no more GOP north of the Mason-Dixon. The last Republican in NY, please shut out the lights.

Posted by: Tony Iovino at January 15, 2008 07:51 PM (85Zmb)

55 Mike Huckabee is the Sanjaya of the Republican Party nomination contest.  If everybody could vote for the worst candidate, he'd have been tossed out in the first few weeks.  But the system only allows you to register votes for your favorites, damnit.

Posted by: Z as in Jersey at January 15, 2008 07:55 PM (kZT4X)

56

Exurban Jon - it was Mike Hendrix that gave the link, not me.  I blog there, but he is the host, I am Mikey NTH - Not The Host.  I'm just a favored guest.

We still agree, though, and thanks.

Posted by: Mikey NTH at January 15, 2008 08:09 PM (kAnhF)

57   Z as in Jersey, that's the funniest comment I've read today.  I'm gonna go give it a post of it's own to highlight it for everyone to see.

Posted by: Russ from Winterset at January 15, 2008 08:10 PM (BhHL1)

58

Recently, I spoke briefly directly with God. (At least it seemed brief to me, no idea how long it seemed to God.) I asked his thoughts about Huckabee. His reply: Who? Since we were already talking about it, I inquired into his opinion of the race for President. His response was that it seems like it has lasted forever, even to a guy with no sense of time.

Just thought you might want to know, Huckleberry.

 

Posted by: Mikeyslaw at January 15, 2008 08:14 PM (yrptY)

59 Gotcha Mikey -- thanks. As I commented at Cold Fury, "Let the government figure out how to get me a passport on time. THEN they can teach me how best to save my soul from eternal hellfire."

Best,
Jon

Posted by: Exurban Jon at January 15, 2008 08:28 PM (3GwKL)

60

Shrug, that's not particularly theocracy, it's just someone with strong beliefs wanting the nation to adhere to those beliefs.

Maybe so, but the rest remains true: if a Muslim, Catholic or Jew said something like this, evangelicals would crucify him/her.

Depends what you mean by this. You can't make people good through the force of law, but almost every law that is created is based on some moral judgement: it is wrong to do this, so we as a society will sanction it legally.

Emphasis on society, not the personal views of a presidential wannabe.

The rub is the Huckster never elaborated on what he wants to cram into the Constitution.  I'm sure they are doozies.

Posted by: Blogluddite at January 15, 2008 08:31 PM (uPPY/)

61

Unfortunately life is not a computer/video game, Exurban Jon.  We can't hit 'quicksave' before going into a new situation, not activate the cheatcodes and just power through.

I think real life needs to be redesigned - and without having to download patches!

Posted by: Mikey NTH at January 15, 2008 09:34 PM (kAnhF)

62 Nobody has been harder on Huck than me. But there is nothing wrong with what he said.

If I support laws against murder and theft because God says they're wrong, am I a theocrat? Ronald Reagan supported  the Human Life Amendment--theocrat? Pres. Bush supported the Marriage Amendment--theocrat? Congress passed the defense of Marriage Act and Bill Clinton signed it--theocrats all? Voters in many states have passed Constitutional Amendments--are they all theocrats, too?

A theocrat would be when a president simply decreed the law--not when he called for a  Constitutional Amendment.

A Constitutional amendment is the most authentic act of self-government in our system. It takes 2/3rds of Congress and 3/4ths of the states to approve. If it passes, it is because almost everyone in the country agrees. That's theocracy? I doubt it.

On the other hand, both Gay Marriage and Abortion on demand were invented and imposed by Crotch-Worshipping Theocratic Liberal Judges who short-circuited the Constitution to get what THEY wanted, citizens be damned. What they did was Judicial Tyranny--yet we're going to bash the guy who calls for doing it the right way while not even mentioning the real, actual tyrannical acts of judges who got us here?

There's your theocracy.




Posted by: Noel at January 15, 2008 09:55 PM (IKz6D)

63 Mike Fuckabee can fuck off. Seriously. His supporters can fuck off. I'd rather deal with the Paulbots than the drooling Jesus freaks. The first car I see in this town with a Huck sticker, I'm liable to "huck" a rock at it. If the GOP nominates this idiot, I'd back a Ron Paul third party bid first.

Can y'all tell I'm pissed?

Posted by: SGT Dan at January 15, 2008 10:39 PM (oOQel)

64 Maybe so, but the rest remains true: if a Muslim, Catholic or Jew said something like this, evangelicals would crucify him/her.

Possibly, but no more so than atheists are with Huck. I'm no fan of his, he won't get my vote and I'm not happy with this position - I find nothing in the US Constitution at present that violates the Bible or God's laws. It's just not an unreasonable position to take just in terms of its presentation.

The rub is the Huckster never elaborated on what he wants to cram into the Constitution. I'm sure they are doozies.

Oh, sure, I would reject most of his additions, but I'm glad to see the discussion happening at all. Ron Paul's a freak I'd not vote for but he has at least gotten people talking about it.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at January 15, 2008 10:40 PM (hfyfI)

65

What if G_d inspired the Founders, so that the Constitution is exactly what He wanted? There are a fair number who believe that, and I sort of suspect it myself, mackerel snapper that I am.

Posted by: Oldsmoblogger at January 15, 2008 11:58 PM (ulxKl)

66 Good for you.  However:

"The left's insistence that only secular beliefs should impel policy stances is inconsistent but convenient in that it would, if accepted, lead to a secularist-only public polity."

...is a strawman, and a pretty tired one at that.  As a card-carrying member of the Secular Humanist Left, I couldn't care less what *inspires* your policy stances.  All I ask is that if you want it to become an actual law, you provide secular justification.  BIG difference.

Posted by: bonk at January 16, 2008 10:35 AM (omP8N)

67 Typical Republican stuff. Every time  you turn around Republicans are proposing another constitutional amendment. Personally I think if Mike Huckabee or anyone else isn't 100% satisfied with the constituion as it is, they should pack their stuff and get out of my country.

Posted by: JW at January 16, 2008 10:59 AM (1d2JI)

68

Every time  you turn around Republicans are proposing another constitutional amendment.

heh.

Posted by: toby928 at January 16, 2008 11:14 AM (evdj2)

69 None of these amendments will pass now, and especially Huck's Fair Tax / Income Tax repeal. Democrats will NEVER give up the power that comes with the income tax code. In fact, the Bill of Rights wouldn't pass today. But still, proposing an amendment is hardly a theocracy. In fact, it's the opposite.

ps; Barry Goldwater said "You can't legislate morality." He was talking about Civil Rights & race;  he meant a law can't change a human heart, which is true. But every law ever written was based on somebody's moral code

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