1 It would be sweet if he could do it. I so loathe the Huck and St John, they give me real bad gas,maybe I'm not the only one.

2 Note to all Romney, Giuliani and Huckabee supporters: Don't be afraid to change your vote to Thompson, if you care the least bit about true Conservative principles.

3 Wow, an article that is not about the huckster.


Whats going on here.....


ASW

4 I sure hope this is true. I really don't want to vote for McHuckabee.

5

Fredmentum? Catch the Fevah!

Hillary cackled on MTP this morning when confronted with the vast right wing conspiracy remark, Timmy seems to set her on edge.

6 Fred!

F*ck Yeah!

7 Fred, Fred, Fred, Fred, Fred, Fred...

8

I consider myself a fairly typical conservative- limited government, leave me alone, smite our enemies.

Every candidate with the exception of Fred and Romney will make feel that a huge part of the GOP is being screwed by phonies like McCain, Rudy and the worst of all, Huckabee.

Thompson/Romney can win this.

Romney/Thompson maybe can win this.

Nothing else will win because people like myself will have felt that the party I love has been taken over again by the losers that Goldwater and Reagan defeated (ie Rockefeller wing).

 

9 I think any Fred combo can win except Huck/Fred -Fred/Huck

10 It's certainly a starting point and we can all hope that this will be the time the campaign changes from infighting midgets to one strong conservative leader that we can all rally around. Fred is that guy, he just needs to step up. A win in SC (a state with a sizable number of delegates) would be the way to make that happen.

11

Thompson is our last and best hope for a return to conservative policies. I put my money in the gas tank and I'm headed to SC to help out.

Thompson '08

12 The Case Against McCain

13 Freddylicious.

14 YAAAAAY!!! Good news on a Sunday morning. Hope it keeps going.

15  A Fred vs. Hill debate in the Fall would clarify and summarize the last thirty or forty years of debate and struggle in this country.

We need that.

16 Thompson/Guiliani wouldn't be bad either. Here's Fred playing whack-a-huck and Guiliani playing whack-a-clinton.

And, Governor Huckabee, let me start with you, because it was you who wrote that the Bush foreign policy reflects an arrogant bunker mentality.

HUCKABEE: And when I made those statements, I was speaking to the fact that there were times when we gave the world the impression that we were going to ignore what they thought or what they felt, and we were going to do whatever it is we wanted to do.

And the fact is, we're going to do what is best for the American people. And as president, I will always act in the best interest of our country.

But I'll always try to make sure that we're the strongest nation on Earth, the most powerful, the most prepared, but also the one that uses that strength in a very, very understanding way of making sure that when we use the strength we use it with full understanding of the implications of it.

Let me just finish the thought, Charlie, if I may.

There were times when the arrogance was reflected, for example, in the former defense secretary who, despite getting advice from the Defense Department that we would need 400,000 troops to be able to successfully bring stability to Iraq, insisted that we would only use 180,000 troops and we would go in with a light footprint.

HUCKABEE: And there was one particular statement that he made that I found especially troubling. He said, "We don't go to war with the army that we want; we go to war with the army that we have."

I felt that the proper way for us to approach this is we don't go to war with the army we have, we go to war with the army that we need, and we make sure that we have what we need before we go to war, including a clear definition of what we're going to do, irresistible force when we do it, and once we do it, we don't let the politicians interfere or interrupt the battlefield decisions of the commanders with blood on their boots and medals on their chest.

GIBSON: Senator Thompson?

THOMPSON: Well, I think that maybe the governor has rethought his comments that he made about an arrogant foreign policy, because it seems now what he's saying is that we were arrogant because we didn't go in with enough troops.

THOMPSON: I think that's kind of a different impression than the one that he originally sought to leave.

I don't think our foreign policy has been arrogant. Presidents are not perfect; policies are not perfect.

But the bottom line is, we are in a global war with radical Islam. They declared on us -- war on us a long, long time ago. We took note, really, for the first time on September 11 of 2001.

We must do whatever is necessary to protect ourselves.

We weren't considered to be arrogant in Afghanistan when we went in there and won that conflict.

I agree that we made a mistake in terms of going into Iraq as far as the number of troops are concerned. And I think a flawed strategy also. I think that's been rectified now. And I think we're on the -- on the way to prevailing there.

And because we are prevailing there, I think it's going to be for a safer United States of America.

GIBSON: Mayor Giuliani, would you run on the president's foreign policy record or away from it?

GIULIANI: I think you run on your foreign policy ideas, theories and policies, which I've laid out in articles.

And I think the president got the big decision of his presidency right: the big decision that he made on September 20th, 2001, when he put us on offense against Islamic terrorism. And I give him great credit for that. Because we had been dealing with Islamic terrorism incorrectly up until then. We had been on defense. We had been responding.

The president set a whole different mindset. It was: Let's anticipate, let's see if we can prevent another attack.

That led to Afghanistan, it led to Iraq, it's led to the Patriot Act, it's led to electronic surveillance, it's led to changing our intelligence services. All that is very, very good.

Mistakes have also been made. Mistakes were made particularly in the period of time after the capture of Saddam Hussein and, now, a year ago, when we got to the surge policy.

GIULIANI: ... if I may add, I think one of the things that would help answer some of the issues that have come up is, we should increase the size of our military.

Bill Clinton cut the military drastically. It was called the peace dividend, one of those nice-sounding phrases: very devastating. It was a 25, 30 percent cut in the military.

President Bush has never made up for that. Our Army had been at 725,000; it's down to 500,000. We need at least 10 more combat brigades. We need our Marines at 200,000. We need a 300-ship Navy.

This president should do it now. If I'm president, I'll do it immediately.

17 Oh. It didn't look that long on the WaPost page.

18

I am a Fredhead also, but they need to get their act together.  TWO months ago, I was told Fred would visit CLT for a fundraiser, I was in for a couple of grand.  Nothing ever came of it.  WTF. Fred get it going boy.

Another plug for red state update.  These rednecks are outrageous and there Fredheads.

http://www.travisandjonathan.com/RedStateUpdate

How did the hobo hunt go????

Kemp

19 eman

That's a great point.  It could be a true watershed election over the fundamental differences between movement conservatism and liberal statism. 

If nothing else, if Fred can torpedo the Huckabee campaign in SC, we'll owe him a debt of gratitude.

20

I started off for huck, but the more i learned, the more the wheels came off. Now, I can't stomach the sight of him.

The more I researched the others the more I kept finding myself saying " Well, I like everything Fred says, but he really hasn't jumped out there..." Finally, I decided that I didn't care. I like Fred on every issue, he's consistent, and I can back him with a clean conscience. So, for the first time in my life, I got on a candidates site, got some yard signs, a hat, a bumper sticker and donated a fairly decent chunk of change and I'll be damned if he didn't come out and do well in the SC debate a few days later.

So for me, I'm in the Fred camp. If he doesn't win, i can respect it, but at least I feel like I backed the best guys play.

21
Help us Obi-tehFred.  You're our only hope.

22 The press is doing its best to keep Fred a secret. The only secret they have ever kept! They are frightened by a conservative that also doesn't do their bidding.

23

Like Rudy and Mitt, and even the Maverick Senatorial Rage Boy, Fred passes the core test of being strong and unapologetic on defeating our enemies abroad.

But, Fred alone seems to recognize that there is another enemy that must be defeated, the media.  While the others still curry favor with the MSM out of habit, or fear, Fred confronts their biases and dirty tricks straight on.  Fred alone sees the smiling snake-that-wears-suits for what it is, a stealthy ally of our political rivals to be sure, but even worse a tireless advocate for the dream of leftists everywhere, a weakened America.

Fred alone seems to understand who he is really running against now and as a nominee.  The Democratic candidates are fatally flawed (again, thank God) but this time the media will go to any extreme to make sure one of them becomes POTUS.  Smarting from the failure to Cronkhite Bush the way they did LBJ, the media is lusting for revenge, and both blood and dirt will fly in the upcoming campaign.

Fred alone understands that the MSM must be challenged NOW, before they can mount their creaky rotten pulpit one last time to lash out at the incarnation of their worst nightmare, a conservative American patriot.

24 Hmmm. maybe Thompson/Guiliani isn't terribly likely. I won't paste in any more of the debate transcript. It's interesting though that this was the 1/5/08 NH debate, where the MSM/hotair narrative was that Thompson was boring, detached, "lazy" or whatever. The transcript really doesn't bear that out.

GIULIANI: That is not amnesty. That is not amnesty.

If you have a fine, if you have conditions, if you have a whole bunch of steps that people have to go through, it is not amnesty.

Ronald Reagan gave amnesty, straight-out amnesty.

THOMPSON: The question is, are you rewarded for your illegal behavior in any way?

If the answer is yes, it's amnesty.

GIULIANI: But if you have to pay a penalty for it, it is not. For example...

THOMPSON: Do you get allowed to -- but you can still stay in the country?

GIULIANI: Pay money, have to follow...

THOMPSON: But you can still stay in the country?

GIULIANI: Well, but you have to pay penalties.

THOMPSON: But you can still stay in the country?

GIULIANI: There are all different kinds of penalties.

GIBSON: What would you do, Senator?

GIULIANI: Someone gets amnesty from a crime...

THOMPSON: You can have -- you can have -- you can have enforcement by attrition if you obey the law and you enforce the law that's on the books today.

If we started securing the border, as we are supposed to do -- and we're all in agreement that it must be done now.

THOMPSON: I mean, we arrest thousands, over the years, of people from countries that are state sponsors of terrorism. I mean, it's essentially a national security issue, as well as an issue of fairness, as well as a social issue with regard to what states and communities have to face nowadays, and workers who are in competition with this.

If we enforced the borders so people couldn't go back and forth, if we assisted employers with a system that we now have on the books that 20,000, 30,000 employers now are using, a verification system so you could essentially punch a button, the Homeland Security folks will tell you whether or not this person is illegal on the front end, and if we stop sanctuary cities where we're telling local people that you can't cooperate with federal authorities, and stop inducing people to come here with employment and protection under sanctuary cities, as Mayor Giuliani did when he was mayor of New York, then we would have -- we would have attrition of these numbers and start reversing...

25 It is about damn time that Fredmentum caught on.

Fred!  The only conservative choice in '08.

26

The story of the Fred surge is a lie, because Fred always had numbers down here in SC. "Surge" in MSM speak means "we've gotten around to actually paying attention now".

I saw "Fred '08" bumper stickers in the neighborhood not long after Fred announced, and before he had official stickers printed up.

27 sherlock AMEN. I think Rudy and (I like it) Senatorial Rage Boy have the cojones to withstand the MSM attack in the general election as well. I'm quite nervous about Romney in that regard.

28

Great point, Sherlock.  I agree and I'm sure this next "memo-gate" will come only in extra~habero spicy.

I hate those ass clowns.

29 Oh, hell. I'm gonna break my promise, but it's the last time, for real

THOMPSON: All right. Go back and look at the record. In 1996, Congress -- the United States Congress, when I was there, when I was in the Senate, we passed a bill outlawing illegal amnesty.

THOMPSON: I'm serious. Rudy went to court and sued to overturn what we'd passed in legislation. We weren't trying to throw children out on the street either. I think if you...

GIULIANI: Those are the three narrow categories that I was objecting to. They all had to do with humane conditions. It was a policy that was...

THOMPSON: We were (inaudible) inhumane conditions.

30 "Senatorial Rage Boy"

LOL

31 Fred '08:

Kill the terrorists
Secure the borders
Punch the hippies

32
The story of the Fred surge is a lie, because Fred always had numbers down here in SC. "Surge" in MSM speak means "we've gotten around to actually paying attention now".

Heh.  That sounds about right.

33 On Friday night, local fire marshals had to close the doors at Fred's final stops..

34 OMG, Fred! on "windfall profits" taxes on oil companies, and the need to drill at home, and have more nuclear and to build more refineries is perfect, just pitch perfect.

Again, I'm reading the 1/5/08 debate transcript. Why were people so negative about his performance there?

I'll be good and not post the excerpt unless anybody wants me to, it's relatively short.

35 To follow up on angryoldfatman's good point, I find it interesting that the MSM claims to be merely an observer at one moment then acknowledges being a player the next.  Fred is refreshing in part because he speaks past them.  This tactic rightfully acknowledges their proper observer role, and by omission rightfully disdains their player role. 

36

"...I think Rudy and (I like it) Senatorial Rage Boy have the cojones to withstand the MSM attack..."

Cojones ain't the problem.  Rudy is already pretty much media-whipped, so that horse is out of the barn.

And as soon as Senatorial Rage Boy is blind-sided by his oh-so-dear admirers in the MSM, he'll cook off in a fireball that will make Howard Dean look fucking thoughtful.  Then we will have us a nominee that is media-certified "unstable".  Good luck with that.

37 15  A Fred vs. Hill debate in the Fall would clarify and summarize the last thirty or forty years of debate and struggle in this country.

We need that.

Totally agree.  Fred needs to systematically dissect the liberal agenda as a good lawyer would, and convince the American people how bad it is for our way of life.

38 Anybody who thinks illegal immigration will be the driving force behind who's elected is out of their mind.

It will be the ECONOMY...FRONT AND CENTER.

Period.

39 Tom is right.  The abysmal state of the Mexican economy will be the paramount issue this year.

40

Does this line I imagine from a future Fred v. AnyDem debate remind you of anyone:

AnyDem: "Well, in my experience...."

Fred: "See?!  There you go again!"

41 Sherlock, I'm with ya, but if we can't have Fred!, Rudy would be able to deal with the media and opposition better than Romney, IMHO.

42 Good point, sherlock, except this time Fred will not have to add "with all due respect".  But, being a gentleman, he will anyway.

43

Senatorial Rage Boy- hah, perfect! But he cannot withstand the MSM attack- he will feel like a cheap date the next morning (they don't love me?)

I still remember him jumping ugly with some reporterette when he had to concede in 2000- he can be rattled and the Clinton machine knows how to do it.

 

44 Yes, for once Tom is right... the media's relentless attempts to create a recession for political purposes WILL be an issue.  Because Fred will ram it down the MSM's slime-encrusted throats!

45

"...he can be rattled and the Clinton machine knows how to do it."

To be fair, it ain't that hard - you just tell him he's wrong about something.  Imagine if McCain had to endure the slagging that Bush has for the last 7 years... he'd be in the psycho ward!

46 Look for a series of dumb ass economic stimulus bills this year that are designed to create free commercials for the Dems in the form of news stories about troubled times and heartless Republicans.

Fred can and should shoot them down like a Patriot missile.

47 "...the media's relentless attempts to create a recession..."

Right.

It's the MEDIA who's creating the worldwide economic situation we're facing.

It has nothing to do with the sub-prime debacle, banks and investment firm taking massive losses, the homebuilders at their lowest ebb in ten years, the newly created report being about 10% of what was expected, the inflation rate scaring the hell out of economists, oil at $90-$100, gasoline averaging $3.30,  our weekly Iraqi expense hovering at the 2 billion a week mark...it's that bad, bad...MEDIA.

And you wonder why I think some here are dumb as a bag of rocks??

Duh.

48

meanwhile, did anyone notice that Sid Blumenthal got busted for drunk driving?

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/13/us/politics/13blumenthal.html?ref=politics

 

 

49

I finally made up my mind. I donated to Fred. I like him, I like his attitude, I like where he stands on the majortiy of issues. My husband, father, father in law and brother have decided to vote for him as well. Of course we all live in Maryland so our vote in the primaries will be a lot like spitting in the wind. But we will vote anyway. I hope he wins in S.C.

 

50 Sid was celebrating Hillary's dramatic win in New Hampshire.

At least he had something to celebrate.

51 At some point - possibly already, possibly not - Fred! could re-generate the enthusiasm in something the same way he did last Summer when his wave crested, but, for good or bad reasons, he refused to dive in, and instead let the other candidates swim away from him for close to six months.

If he gets back into the race, then he'll by definition have high momentum.  His money will surge also, since the main thing holding his fundraising back has been uncertainty among his potential backers that he a) was really in it and b) really had a chance. 

There'd be a huge potential advantage for the Republicans if they nominated Fred:  He'd have an aura of magic around him - the candidate who defied everyone - pollsters, pundits, party regulars, and even his own supporters, insisted on doing things his way and also the way that everyone says they wished it was done, and who turned out to be right.

He'd also be the guy who saved the party from all the other guys.

It's at least a good a story as the McCain comeback or the Huckabee phenomenon.  Unfortunately, it may not have any better odds of working than Rudy sweeping FL and Super-Tuesday big states to a commanding plurality or any of the other scenarios up to and including brokered convention.

52

Fred might just be the last man standing here.  Rudy's unacceptable to some so-cons, Huck offends the economic/foreign-policy conservatives, Mitt's too obviously saying whatever people want to hear (and evangelicals don't seem overjoyed about electing a Mormon), and McCain has his "maverick" history of regulating speech and offering amnesty to illegals.

I still hope Rudy's proportional strategy works out, because I think he'd be the best President, but Fred's definitely better than the rest of the field.  His main liability has been he doesn't seem ambitious enough about being President, but as a minarchist I think that's the highest qualification a man could have.

53

Even a bag of rocks knows that economic well-being is all about perception.  If you look at the data, the economy is doing just fine in most areas, and specifically outperforming the EU in most ways.

But if you look at opinion writers in the media, we have been on the verge of economic collapse for the last several years.  There's a reason they are doing that.  It is purely political and they don't care how many lives they hurt if they can make something bad happend that can be blamed on a Republican.  And I would rather be dumb as a bag of rocks than filthy lying sacks of shit like them.

54 Here's hoping. I'd love to put off the collapse of American civilization for a few more years.

55 Geroge F. Will's column today purports to be an analysis of the Republican candidates' chances.  Fred is not mentioned.  I hope Will enjoys looking really stupid real soon.

56 Tom,
Could both the assertion that the media is cheer leading for a recession and the difficulties you mention be true?
Was the media negative about the economy two, three and four years ago before gas prices soared to this level, the sub-prime difficulties surfaced, et cetera?

I don't expect an honest answer from you. But I do want to point out that your "refutation" @ 47 above did not accomplish its intended task.

57 bag of cocks? Jeebus Tom, don't you ever think of anything else?

58 Nom,
When you ask; "Could both the assertion that the media is cheer leading for a recession and the difficulties you mention be true?"

Exactly what "media" are you talking about?

The Wall Street Journal?
Washington Times?
San Diego Union?
Investor's Business Daily?
Fox News?
The Weekly Standard?

All have run extensive arguments relating to signs that point to a recession that is either already in effect or coming soon.

The "media" doesn't create job reports or inflation or sub-prime meltdowns or homebuilder woes...they merely respond to what they see and hear.

And what could possibly make you believe that the "media" is "cheer leading for a recession??"

Why...because then a Democrat would be elected...and have to deal with what you say they're creating?

Ridiculous.

59 Frank,
You just can't stand having to actually discuss or defend specific points that are raised, can you?

Always the silly "cock" talk when cornered.

Why not provide discourse instead of the standard homophobic crap?

60 I'm surprised that there hasn't been any polling in South Carolina since Thursday night's debate. The last poll on Real Clear Politics was taken on Wednesday, so we haven't seen any reflection of a Fred debate bounce. That also limits the ability of Fred's South Carolina supporters to use that Fredmentum to convince their neighbors that Fred has a chance of winning.

I question the timing.

61

We need a true Conservative like Fred Thompson in our government right now to stop the incremental slide toward socialism and the Marxist philosophy that has all but taken over since Ronald Reagan's Presidency.  Our very own Republicans have taken on the montra of socialistic values, and this is a very dangerous circumstance for liberty loving-freedom loving people like me and many of you.  Republican candidates like Romney, Guiliani, McCain, Huckabee are all social liberals.  How they came to be tauted as Republicans is perplexing to me.  In Mass. Romney would be looked upon as a Conservative; in N.Y. Giuliani would be looked upon as a Conservative; in Arkansas Huckaby would be considered a Conservative; BUT - in conservative states they all are liberals! Oh yeah!  Let's not forget Ron Paul!  As we all know, Ron Paul's supporters are mostly leftists who have attached themselves to him as a means of promoting someone who will produce a winner for the Democrats by drawing off Conservatives from all the other candidates.  His unrealistic take on foreign affairs; his completely obnoxious supporters; and his constant banterings about how the Iraqi war is so terrible forces me not to ever consider casting my vote for him. 

One other very important point that has thus far been hidden is the leftists' push to force this country toward Globalization.  Clinton and both Bush's have actively pushed this agenda ever closer to reality, and we have to stop it before it goes any further.  The illegal alien problem is a main avenue toward the globalization effort too.  I think most people don't realize that globalization will abolish our Constitution AND our freedoms along with it.  After that we will be left to the rule of a global leader to decide our fate, and that leader will cloak himself in a robe of Socialism. 

Fred Thompson is the ONLY man among them all who will assure our continued Conservative values and continuation of our country as we know it today.

 

 

62 Blumenthal was going 70 in a 30 mph zone. When I used to have to make my way home after a night out drinking, I never broke the speed limit.

Is it stupidity or arrogance to more than double the speed limit while intoxicated?

63 Has Tom figured out the definition of a recession yet? 

64

Not to sound like a Fredhead but why hasn't there been a likely GOP voter poll in S.Carolina?

Anecdotal evidence is encouraging but  pretty thin gruel.

Sherlock, you are right about McCains temper- he would've been led away in a strait jacket 1 year into his term if the MSM ripped into him like Bush .

Hillary" I'll show you tears" vs. John "don't you ever question my purity"- Save us Obi-Fred! indeed.

65

Why...because then a Democrat would be elected...and have to deal with what you say they're creating?

Ridiculous.

Uh, yeah, just like they didn't do to George HW Bush when he was running against Clinton, right Tom?  I mean, it's not as if they painted a picture of bread lines and cheese rationing for months prior to November 1992, only to have America transition drastically into the Bestest Economy Evah! (TM) as soon as President Lecherous Hillbilly was getting his pole shined in the Oval.

Something sure is ridiculous here, clown, but it ain't Nom's assertion.

66 Job reports and inflation have both been consistently positive, Tom.
Those particular statistics belie your argument.

67

Job reports and inflation have both been consistently positive, Tom.
Those particular statistics belie your argument.

Now you've gone and done it, Nom.  Prepare to be barraged by a series of public opinion polls that trump your silly bean-countering.

68 Speaking of Fred vs Hildebeest, both were staff lawyers during the Watergate hearings. Fred worked the R side, and Hildebeest worked the D side. No one here should take lightly the effect Watergate had on the Hildebeest. She is more Nixonian than Nixon ever was.

69 His gas-tank was at 200,000 before the debate in Myrtle Beach. That's really, really impressive. And it's not like there was a big push by the campaign to get the donations (a la Senor Paul), it's all regular folks going to the website.

70 "Job reports and inflation have both been consistently positive, Tom.
Those particular statistics belie your argument."

Inflation is way, way up and the job numbers were abysmal last month. Google either and show me where the numbers "belie" what I said.

P.S. Chicken-Boy: "Is it stupidity or arrogance to more than double the speed limit while intoxicated?"

A little of both, but why do you think they call it "intoxication."

P.S. Warden: A recession is basically a period of reduced economic activity., or..."a significant decline in economic activity spread across the economy, lasting more than a few months."

71

The unemployment rate leaps to a two-year high, record numbers of people are forced from their homes and Wall Street nose-dives again. Such is the fallout from a housing meltdown that threatens to slingshot the country into a recession.

The big economic question these days is whether the weakening economy will survive the strains or collapse under them.

1. The odds have grown that the economy will slip into a recession. At the beginning of last year, many economists put that chance at less than 1-in-3; now an increasing number says it has climbed to around 50-50. Goldman Sachs, the biggest investment bank on Wall Street even thinks a recession is inevitable this year.

2. "The recession gorilla is there. The question is can the Federal Reserve do enough to avert a recession?" asked Brian Bethune, economist at Global Insight. "We think the odds are close to 50 percent that there will be a recession. It is high — no question about it."

3. "The Federal Reserve is not currently forecasting a recession," Bernanke said last week. "We are forecasting slow growth."

4. The Dow Jones industrials plunged nearly 250 points on Friday. Also, consumer confidence tumbled in early January.

5. Bill Cheney, chief economist at John Hancock Financial Services, "There are a lot of headwinds and the economy probably has enough momentum to get through, but when things get rough, there are a lot of ways things could go wrong," Cheney said.

6. The fear is that people will clamp down on the spending and businesses will put a lid on hiring and capital investment, sending the economy into a tailspin.

7. By one rough rule of thumb, a recession occurs when there are two consecutive quarters — six straight months — when the economy shrinks.

8. The current housing slump, made worse by a credit crunch, is weighing heavily on economic activity.

9. Upcoming reports are expected to show the economy grew at a feeble pace of just 1.5 percent or less in the final three months of last year and will be weak in the first part of 2008. 

10. High energy prices, weaker home values that make people feel less wealthy, and a deteriorating jobs market all figure into more caution on the part of consumers.

11. The unemployment rate jumped to 5 percent in December from 4.7 percent, fanning recession fears. It was the biggest one-month gain since October 2001.

12. Lawrence Summers, one of President Clinton's treasury secretaries, said "It is now conventional opinion and many fear that there will be a serious recession," Summers wrote recently in the Financial Times.

72 A recession is two consecutive quarters of negative growth. Definitions matter.

73 5% unemployment is historically quite low, Tom. The fact that we've had lower than 5% unemployment for a while does not make 5% high. But it does point to your lack of understanding of basics.

74 Hell, weren't economists at one point getting worried at the consistently low unemployment numbers.  Concerns about it actually dipping below the 5% mark.

75

P.S. Warden: A recession is basically a period of reduced economic activity., or..."a significant decline in economic activity spread across the economy, lasting more than a few months."

Wow.  At least when you consistently refused to answer the question you left open the remote possibility that you knew what the answer was.

Now you've gone and proven that you clearly don't know what the hell a recession is, even as you try to work it into virtually every one of your non-cock-oriented posts.

A recession isn't "basically" anything, jackass.  It's not a condition derived from feeeeeling but one of metrics.  Metrics that have shown a consistenly strong, expanding economy over the past five years.

76 Inflation data here.
It's currently calculated at just over 4 percent. That is higher than the recent trend but well below the average from the 70s and 80s. Some of us have memories that run back that far. And it's not particularly high by the long-term average.

But don't let that interfere with your argument.

77 This is the worst economy ever!!!

How do I know this? There's a Republican in the White House, duh.

78 Fred! has surged !! His odds have dropped from 250-1 all the way to 100-1
Fred! is on the move !!

79 Economy ?
Definitely nothing to cause any concern here
Currency devalued 50% and massive deficits and a doubling of the national debt in the last 7 years, NO PROBLEM !!
Real conservatives would not worry about such things.

80 Tom has hijacked this thread.

Back to Fred:  something must be happening, they actually mentioned Fred on FNS this morning.

81 I wonder why Fred didn't want that asteroid to hit Mars?

82

Currency devalued 50% and massive deficits and a doubling of the national debt in the last 7 years, NO PROBLEM !!

Oh, yes, currency devaluation is such a tragedy, until you mongoloids decide you want to back to bleating about "outsourcing!!!!111" and "the trade deficit!!!!!1111".  Then our currency will be "too strong".  Or, more likely, you'll just be looking for some other reason to bash Republicans without understanding how stupid you look.

As for the shrinking deficits, since you represent an ideology that cheerleads for every initiative (unless it's for the military, natch) to spend, spend, spend this country into oblivion, why on Earth would you even bring this up, much less oppose it?

I mean, if you're such an intrepid anti-deficit crusader, john, you must be vexed by the insane degree of constitutionally suspect "non-discretionary" expenditures allocated for taxpayer-funded hand-outs, right?  You know, what with those expenses being far, far, far more responsible for both the budget deficit and the national debt you decry than Iraq or any of your other drop-in-the-ocean bogeymen, right?

Better yet, could you drooling retards just save us a lot of time and bandwidth and just admit that you don't know the first damn thing about economics or consistency of argument?  Thanks!

83 1.  Currency was overvalued - may have gone too far in the opposite direction - but the result has also de-valued Chinese holdings and oil increase
2.  Deficits and national debt are meaningless if judged in absolute terms, must be assessed as fraction of total output, in which case are within historical norms - should be brought down, but are not at critical levels - we've sustained much higher levels of relative debt for decades.  Also, you might want to check your figures:  Total national debt has not doubled over the last 7 years.  In absolute terms it's increased by around 50%.  In relative terms, it's increased much less.
3.  Unemployment figures will probably be revised down, are still historically low, and even at the reported level - 5%, an increased from 4.7% - hardly represent a trend at this point.

We MAY be entering a recession, but the jury is still out.

84 Nom de Blog,
Correcto mundo.

Right now economists, based on existing and current data...are concerned about a possible recession...so...I guess we'll see.

Right?

Why can't you accept the facts of the situation instead of burying your head in the sand??

85 Vjay..."a significant decline in economic activity spread across the economy, lasting more than a few months."

...is a direct quote from The American National Bureau of Economic Research.
(A "private, nonprofit, nonpartisan research organization" dedicated to studying the science and empirics of economics, especially the American economy.)

Are you saying they don't know what a fucking recession is??

86

Why can't you accept the facts of the situation instead of burying your head in the sand??

Uh, sorry, but you're the one who has been arguing for months on this board that, based on public opinion polls, the economy is and has been in bad shape and even in a "recession".  When called on your bullshit and asked to provide the definition of a "recession" as you keep applying it to an objectively expanding economy, you've consistently responded with "Yes -- I know what a recession is, and so do 52.7% of adults surveyed by blah blah blah".  Only now did you let the mask slip and provide incontrovertible evidence of what we knew all along -- you don't know shit about economics.  But at least 52.7% of the nimrods waiting by their phones to talk to pollsters share your deficiencies, so you're not alone.

Don't try to shift the timeline to the future now just because the past and present have been so embarrassing for you.  No one here has ever argued that this country wouldn't see another recession or even that it wouldn't happen in the relatively near future.  The business cycle rules us all.

87 I realized I was correct, Tom. I need no affirmation from you. One of us has a background in economics and finance. The other calls himself Tom.

The NBER is at odds with most of the rest of the world in their definition. If you followed your own links you'd see that. And the NBER specifically adopted that definition in order to say a recession was occurring before the evidence supported the traditional, and most widely accepted, definition.

But then I'm sure that bunch of academics headquartered in Cambridge, MA wouldn't ever use their position for political gain. Never.

And again I'll ask:
Was the media negative about the economy two, three and four years ago before gas prices soared to this level, the sub-prime difficulties surfaced, et cetera?

88 Nom, your: " Inflation data here."

Is from July of 2006. Here are the stats for 2007, with December still to come:

YearJanFebMarAprMayJunJulAugSepOctNovDecAve 20072.08%2.42%2.78%2.57%2.69%2.69%2.36%1.97%2.76%3.54%4.31%
P.S. Eman, The thread is about Fred and how he's going to save the universe. Do you not consider our nation's economy important? Do you think Freddie has the tools to deal with it?

89

...is a direct quote from The American National Bureau of Economic Research.
(A "private, nonprofit, nonpartisan research organization" dedicated to studying the science and empirics of economics, especially the American economy.)

Are you saying they don't know what a fucking recession is??

If that's the extent of their definition of a recession, then yes, corky, that's exactly what I'm saying.  Nom's definition above is the ONLY meaningful definition of a recession, and it's the ONLY one by which a recession has been "officially" declared by economists for decades.  I don't give a shit what some "research organization"'s dumbed-down-for-your-half-literate-ass, so-nebulous-as-to-be-impossible-to-apply-consistently pseudo-definintion states.

"Longer than a few months"?  Does "few" mean "two" here, or are we back to the same gut-feeeeeling bullshit on which your indefensible, it-depends-on-which-party-controls-the-White-House definition rests.  For crying out loud, is there a corollary in there that equates the condition of a recession with how "down in the dumps" a certain percentage of people feeeel?

How about I start a "research organization" tomorrow that redefines "recession" to be any period in which the sun rises in the West for six consecutive days.  Then I can claim, just as Gore and Clinton did, to have "solved" the business cycle and ended recessions forever.  Yay!

I can't believe that you just googled some random organization's definition of a recession and threw it out there as authoritative.  As if every Macro Economics textbook ever printed was using a definition that was just too "certain" and not "nuanced" enough in its objectivity.

Imbecile.

90 Nom,
Look, if you, being the financial genius you say you are, think everything is A-OK...stick with it.

As for ME, who, by the way, does have a firm business background, I'll plan my investments, etc., based on those who actually know what the fuck they're talking about.

To continue to yap about how the "media" is creating the situation or that we're really not heading for trouble, is nothing more than blind faith in what you want to be the case, not what is.

*Better yet; ask any of your local homebuilders or realtors or factory workers or auto sales people or construction trade workers or retail companies what they think...

91

P.S. Eman, The thread is about Fred and how he's going to save the universe. Do you not consider our nation's economy important? Do you think Freddie has the tools to deal with it?

Says the retard that thinks that the President exerts godlike influence over a societal sector shaped by trillions of freely chosen human interactions every day.

But I'm not being fair.  The Dems have a concrete plan for "dealing" with the economy.  Something about "hope" and "audacity" and "change".  And stealing even more of my money to give to their buddies and buy votes from the lowest common denominator.

92

As for ME, who, by the way, does have a firm business background, I'll plan my investments, etc., based on those who actually know what the fuck they're talking about.

Says the retard who had to come finally clean in this thread that he has no fucking clue what a recession is.  And then tries to legitimize his embarrassing ignorance by citing a bizarro-world definition cooked up by some "research organization" that no one has ever heard of.

Tell me, Tom -- how hard is it to get a "firm business background" from the Bayou School of Law and Agriculture?

93

Look, if you, being the financial genius you say you are, think everything is A-OK...stick with it.

Once again pretending that the argument has always been about the future, and not the past and present.  You know, the ones which you've claimed repeatedly have been beset with "recession" despite all empirical evidence to the contrary.

*Better yet; ask any of your local homebuilders or realtors or factory workers or auto sales people or construction trade workers or retail companies what they think...

Polls!  We knew you'd go to the well eventually, Tom.  Thanks, monkey, for dancing so predictably for us.  Here's a peanut!

And I love that whole "finish my posts with an asterisk-prefixed, bolded-and-italicized-for-special-emphasis gotcha statement".  The formatting is like a radon alert that the stupid is about to be cranked up to a whole new level.

94 Vjay: Keep that head of yours buried in the sand.

Let's touch base in about 6-9 months and see who's on the right rack here.

P.S. Nom: These are the people who are "at odds with most of the rest of the world?"

Founded in 1920, the National Bureau of Economic Research is a private, nonprofit, nonpartisan research organization dedicated to promoting a greater understanding of how the economy works. Simon Kuznets' pioneering work on national income accounting, Wesley Mitchell's influential study of the business cycle, and Milton Friedman's research on the demand for money and the determinants of consumer spending were among the early studies done at the NBER.

The NBER is the nation's leading nonprofit economic research organization. Sixteen of the 31 American Nobel Prize winners in Economics and six of the past Chairmen of the President's Council of Economic Advisers have been researchers at the NBER.

The more than 600 professors of economics and business now teaching at universities around the country who are NBER researchers are the leading scholars in their fields. 

95 Vjay,
Good luck holding onto that trailer.

96 VJay,
The NBER is actually pretty important. But their definition of a recession was developed so they can forecast recessions instead of waiting for the data.

Not that that would ever be manipulated for political ends. Just like the Lancet.

97 Tom,
Did you read your own links?
Go check the definition of recession from Wikipedia.
You'll see that the NBER is at odds with most of the rest of the world's definition, right there in the link you provided.

98 And Tom, just so you know, I linked that particular page because it had a pretty, pretty chart to condense the data.
And by that chart you can see your claims about inflation are largely unfounded, as I mentioned earlier and which you have yet to refute.

99

Let's touch base in about 6-9 months and see who's on the right rack here.

Sorry, Tom, but you can wait for eternity, but you're never going to be right about the United States being in a recession for the past several years.  Which is exactly what you've been arguing on this board for months.  See, Tom, when you're inarguably, objectively wrong about something in the past or present, the future isn't a lifeline that's going to vindicate your stupidity.

Get it now, corky?  The United States is not, by the only meaningful objective standards which apply, currently in a recession.  It wasn't in a recession last year.  Not in 2006. 2005. 2004. 2003.  You've argued to the contrary, repeatedly and with hilarious results.

But keep swinging for the future, Tommy, beating those meticulously crafted strawman of yours to death.  You've crapped out on actual reality that has come to pass, so the unknown of tomorrow is really the last frontier you've got.  And despite the fact that not a single poster here has ever argued that the economy won't slide into recession at some point in the future, you'll be ready to pounce when it does so you can come back here -- with 20% more asterisks and bold/italics than ever before! -- and beat that same strawman to death again.

Please, Tom.  Just let that poor thing rest in peace.

100

Good luck holding onto that trailer.

Please stop sucking the chrome off the hitch.  Practice your deviancy with your own property.

101

Is Tom seriously arguing that we are in a recession -now-, when the third quarter 2007 GDP increased by 4.9%, and the second quarter GDP increased by 3.8%?

I don't know if there's an appropriate response other than BWAHAHAHAHAA.

Oh, and he's bitching about 5% unemployment?  I wonder if it'd make any difference to him if I showed him press reports from 1996 of the Clinton administration heralding news that the unemployment rate hit 5.3% (down from "already low" 5.6% unemployment, that "already low" according to CNN) as "ecstatic" news.

Of course it wouldn't.

Qwinn 

102

But let's try anyway.  Reconcile your current evaluation of the unemployment figures with this article, Tommy boy.

Qwinn

103

Is Tom seriously arguing that we are in a recession -now-, when the third quarter 2007 GDP increased by 4.9%, and the second quarter GDP increased by 3.8%?

Well, Qwinn, you've got your gaudy "GDP" (whatever that means; probably some false flag number invented by Faux News) statistics, and Tom's get poll after poll of unemployed drunks suggesting that the economy just feeels like it's in a recession and therefore is.

Q.E.D.  So thanks for playing, chump.

104 Currency devaluation's a good thing, right? It should reduce the "trade deficit" anyway.

105

Without a doubt Fred Thompson is the "only" Conservative in the Republican race. It is easy to see, upon investigation, that McCain, Romney, Giuliani and Huckabee are RINO's.

For a clear view of all five Republican candidates visit www.pinnaclecascade.com

No signups, no logins, no registrations, no blogs, no emails; just the facts on all five Republican candidates full of videos and links to news articles.

106

Qwinn : "Is Tom seriously arguing that we are in a recession -now-, when the third quarter 2007 GDP increased by 4.9%, and the second quarter GDP increased by 3.8%?"

Why not post the comment where I did.

Just for grins and prove whether or not you know how to read.

* But, for your edification, this is actually what I DID say:

"The Wall Street Journal, Washington Times, San Diego Union, Investor's Business Daily, Fox News, The Weekly Standard, etc...(ALL conservative publications or news sources)...have run extensive arguments relating to signs that point to a recession that is either already in effect or coming soon."

This isn't some kind of big secret or left wing conspiracy, Qwinn. It's something could dramatically effect everybody whether you're left or right of the aisle.

Again; if you want to ignore the situation we have...that's up to you.

107 funky chicken,
Currency valuation changes make very little difference in the short term and are not good or bad in the long term. It depends on whether you're an importer or an exporter, as you mention above. And America is well positioned to handle currency fluctuations because of our diverse and dynamic economy.

Sclerotic (usually caused by government intervention) or non-diverse economies are not as well positioned to handle these changes. For example, China is very likely to experience severe dislocations if they are forced to re-value the Yuan. (And for anybody who cares to know, China is *forced* to hold American debt because of their pegged currency -- which is a net negative over the long term for China.)

108 Quinn: Maybe this will interest you:
By Rex Nutting, MarketWatch
WASHINGTON (MarketWatch) -- The U.S. economy grew slightly faster in the fourth quarter than previously thought, but inflation was slightly higher as well, government data released Thursday show.

U.S. real gross domestic product grew at a 1.7% annualized rate in the quarter, compared with the earlier estimate of 1.6% and an original estimate of 1.1%, the Commerce Department reported Thursday. It was the final estimate of quarterly growth. Read the full report.

Despite a bigger bottom line, the GDP revision actually shows the economy was weaker than thought in the fourth quarter, with the strength coming from inventory building, not final sales.

Even if the final estimate for the fourth quarter past matches the largest of these errors -- the upward revision in the third quarter of 2003 - we would end up at just 2% annualized growth for the quarter, still well below expectations.

109 Tom,
There are always signs pointing to a recession. There are always bears. And there are always bulls. That said:

Could you please find the articles in the liberal press, e.g. NYT, LAT, NBC, CBS, ABC, MSNBC, CNN, et al, that were touting the amazing performance of the economy during the previous five years? I looked and looked but never saw it.

There was always a 'but' or a 'women and children hardest hit' or some other bugaboo about. And the positives seemed to consistently find their way below the fold. Could you explain that?

110 "...below expectations"...????

Tom,
You expect a recession. The information you posted states that the economy grew at 1.7% (of $13.5TR or about nearly $250BN on an annualized basis) so we were obviously well above your expectations.

Please reconcile that we are experiencing negative growth, but really it is positive, but either way it's below expectations.

111 Nom,
I don't "expect" anything.

I think we're in trouble right now, for a variety of reasons relating to real estate, the monetary markets, deficits, corporate earnings and losses, homebuilding being flat, retail sales being flat, oil prices, gasoline prices, the job report being so dismal...and a vast majority of the country's economists are in agreement.

What exactly are you saying?

That we're in good shape, that we shouldn't be aware of the consequences of not addressing our economic problems and signs of possible recession? That it's all just some kind of "media" ploy to get Democrats elected??

Explain yourself or fuck off.

112 Nom, you say: "The information you posted states that the economy grew at 1.7% (of $13.5TR or about nearly $250BN on an annualized basis) so we were obviously well above your expectations. Please reconcile that we are experiencing negative growth, but really it is positive, but either way it's below expectations."

Well...

"Despite a bigger bottom line, the GDP revision actually shows the economy was weaker than thought in the fourth quarter, with the strength coming from inventory building, not final sales."

If you think this is GOOD news...you're out of your mind...and if we were experiencing "negative" growth we would be looking at what many would refer to as a possible depression.

113 It's not really possible to be in a big ass war without major inflation.  And once the war ends, the correction always results in a huge economic boom for the US.  The 90s had on, the post WWII period had one. 

Fred will help end the was faster because he'll fight it.  Some of his opponent would try to escape it, but I don't think that's possible.

Anyway, things aren't perfect, but they are very nice, and economies do have downturns.  Just as the one in 2001, I think it's not a crisis.

114 My points, Tom, is simple.
There are two of them.
I'll type them slowly so you can keep up.
1)    The MSM has been cheer leading negative economic news and burying positive economic news for the last 5 years.
2)     We are not in a recession currently.

Economists predict a slowdown. We are likely in a slowdown. Your prediction of a recession is fun for you but your success rate is likely abysmal. The record of professional economists is no better.
Krugman, for example, has correctly predicted 6 of the previous 1 recessions.

115 are simple

Darn it.

116 Fred.

117 And I missed that little bit of delusion at the end.

Hey, guys! Tom thinks negative growth would mean we're in a depression.
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA. BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA. *cough* *snort* *catches breath*
BWAHAHAHAHAHA!!11eleven!!!!11

118 Tom, in this thread you did what MSM would do: you promoted the idea that the economy is either in trouble now or soon will be so.

Our economy is not in a recession.  Fears or worries or thoughts of a looming recession are not the same as an actual recession.  

Once a recession does occur, the MSM and other political entities will insist that someone or something takes the blame for it.  Usually, the party in power gets that honor.  If a recession comes this year,  the MSM and the Dems will make sure the Republican Party gets the blame.  Specifically, the recession will be blamed on GWB, Iraq, tax cuts for the rich, obscene profits, failure to fix healthcare, anti-immigrant racism, regular racism, sexism, global warming, guns, voter ID, the Patriot Act, Gitmo, and, of course, the Surge.

119 A Depression?  No!!!!

Edith Keeler must die!!!!!

Khaaaaaaannnnn!!!!

120 Dear faggot Tom,

Why are you changing the argument to whether we're heading for a recession when just a month or so ago you insisted that we are in one.

Bender,
I have no idea what you do for a living, but if you don't think we're in a recession right now, you're dreaming.

Posted by: Tom at December 12, 2007 04:06 PM (1kwK7)

You've embarrassed yourself again, Tom.  Time to switch handles and pretend this never happened.

121 Oh, and this would have never happened if you knew the definition of a recession to begin with.

You're so easy to bait.  All I had to do was drop that one line, walk away, and let you spend the rest of the afternoon making a fool of yourself.

122

Fred Thompson is the Presidential Timber for this forest we call America.

 

123 When I sucked Lance Armstrong's cock, my sex life officially entered a recession.

See...I expected 2 balls, but I only got to play with one.

On second thought, maybe it was a depression. I know I've never been so sad.

124

Here is a question for Tom.  Does any EU country have an unemployment rate of less than 5%?

NOT.

So socialism is really great, if you don't want a job.

Oh, by the way we are not making all the markers for Iraq.  The message is never positive, as long as a Republican is in office.  I am surprised we haven't had the homeless come back. I guess they are all working for John "pretty boy" Edwards.

Kemp

125 All these declarations of the death of various campaigns are making pundits like yourselves look pretty foolish.  Let's review some of the actual facts:   Delegates nominate the candidates; not polls (so accurate in NH), not pundits, not even any early 1st place finishes. 61 delegates TOTAL have been selected, less than 3%. 1191 needed to win.   - Romney     24     (In the lead, and his campaign is dead??)  - Huckabee  18 - McCain     10      ('Leading candidate'??) - Thompson   6      ('But Fred's campaign is dead?  Based on being 18 delegates behind?) - Paul           2 - Hunter        1   Even Rudy, with no delegates despite high expenditures is not out of it.  Remember how dead you all proclaimed McCain just a few weeks ago?   Since Fred does not kowtow to the MSM or the pundits, animousity and lack of coverage of him is most pronounced and certainly smacks of retribution.  I've been in conservative politics since the Goldwater years and am suffering MSM deja vue; however, last time it was with Reagan in 1976.  Hopefully, we'll do better this time.   Here's my punditry: with the full balkinization of the GOP votes, we'll see no one (except maybe Hunter) dropping out for quite some time, if at all before the convention.  The convention could very likely be brokered.

126 MikeO,
Next time you're doing a little drive by trolling, read the comments to know where the conversation is. That way you won't look like such an ass hole.

127 I was for Fred before Fred was Cool!!!!  So given the Cheese Heads' attire - what would a Fred Head's attire look like???  We could all shave our heads ---  Really I hope this SC surge is for real, kicks the begesus out of the Huckster et al.and finally jabs a stake in the heart of those pessimistic, socialist, surrender monkies on the left.  

128

I wonder why it is never mentioned that each of the major Republican candidates, including the one the MSM never mentions, Thompson, has more experience that the top 3 Dems combined?  The bias and spin and push polls of the MSM are the ONLY reasons Democrats can get elected to anything... if they had to actually run on their policies (hope, change, and hope for change) or their voting records (Al Qaeda rating - 100%), they couldn't get elected as a fucking dogcatcher.

What a pathetic bunch of empty suits and lying traitors.  Just like the phoney war hero they rallied 'round last time.

129 I could get behind Fred, yep, sure could.

130 Fred laid out the current strategy several months ago IIRC, and like his earlier runs for public office this one seems to be following a similar path. A big success in SC will start a "Fred! Tide" that will prevail in 2008.

131 And that just reminded me of John Kerry riding a fucking ferry across the harbor to the Dem convention!  Calling Kerry a "fatuous poseur" doesn't even begin to describe what a loser he was.  But to the Dems, he was a real war hero, the kind they love - that bears false witness against their comrades and country, and negotiates secretly with the enemy.  Most honest people would call them filth, of course, but those kind of people are in short supply at any Dem get-together.

132

Everybody's been waiting for the same d--n recession for 3-4 years now.  Meanwhile the economy's grown for +20 consecutive quarters.

But no, wait...it's comin'....just right around the corner...any day now...

133

Nice slogan Mockin'bird.

 

Go Fred08

134 Send this video to EVERYONE of your contacts. The truth must come out Mike Huckabee and this video will shock people. Humor always has a way of sticking with people

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=faKzzgXVAv8

135 Actually, Fred/Huck makes sense. In days of yore it was common for The Party (either one) to deal with a troublemaker by giving him the Veep slot on the ticket. The Veep does nothing of substance without the express written permission of POTUS (and major league baseball). Thus Huck, who draws Evangelical votes in droves, could get the 2nd banana slot, bring his votes along, and then be shunted to a sideline for 4, hopefully 8, years. << insert tongue in cheek >> The Veep mainly goes to state funerals, and having a Baptist preacher in the slot would certainly be fitting, provided he doesn't start saying the departed is in Hell. That's Fred Phelps' job. << remove tongue from cheek >>

136 Thank you, syn. Thank you, very kindly.

137 I hope that it is true.  I think this is about the last chance.  The media is close to ignoring him completely.  For example, I saw his Christimas commercial.  I hope that he had the money to air it in Iowa.  It was the best of all the candidates', expecially since he did not even appear in it or even give the "disclaimer" at the end.  The forcus was solely on the troops.  Contrast this with Hillary's ad showing her as Santa Claus dispensing taxpayer money.  He is the only Republican (with the possible exception of Mitt Romney) who I could vote for.  I would hate to see McCain defeated in November by Hillary.  The very best thing is for Fred to concentrate on simple talk to the American people, who know that something has to be done in many areas.  He should be the "un-candidate."  The bus tour is just the right touch.

138

If you think this is GOOD news...you're out of your mind...and if we were experiencing "negative" growth we would be looking at what many would refer to as a possible depression.

You were standing in a ditch before, shoveling furiously, and now you've moved on to soaking yourself in lamp oil and juggling lit torches.

Stop doubling down, jackass; the dealer's already taken your money and is now gesturing security to shovel you out the door.

Negative growth is a "depression" now in Tommy's alternate universe.  Just like in the early eighties, when the Three Stooges and Babe Ruth kept America's hopes and dreams alive.

139

But let's try anyway.  Reconcile your current evaluation of the unemployment figures with this article, Tommy boy.

Qwinn

Great post Q

140

Fred save us!

He's the only real conservative in the race.

141

Negative growth is a "depression" now in Tommy's alternate universe.  Just like in the early eighties, when the Three Stooges and Babe Ruth kept America's hopes and dreams alive.

Don't forget Will Rogers and Annie Oakley!!

142

burnitup,

Thanks, but didn't you know that Tom would completely fail to address it?  Somehow he thinks he can make ridiculous statements like "5.0% unemployment heralds a recession" and thinks he can maintain any credibility.

Qwinn

143

Re giving, let's keep on.

I gave first 100$, then 250$ after Iowa, then $500 after he called down Huckabee on his most glaring bad points(as a potential POTUS).  If he's still in after S. Carolina, maybe its worth maxing it out to $2300.  I'd had my eye on a a new SigSauer.   Thing is, it's more critical to invest in the very right to have such a thing than to add another one to the collection.

144 Explain yourself or fuck off.

Hark! What ho yon retard flappeth his asscheeks to the wind from highest rampart? Why, privy and verily, it is Gaye Tom!!

145 Why are you changing the argument to whether we're heading for a recession when just a month or so ago you insisted that we are in one.

Bender,
I have no idea what you do for a living, but if you don't think we're in a recession right now, you're dreaming.

Posted by: Tom at December 12, 2007 04:06 PM (1kwK7)

You've embarrassed yourself again, Tom.  Time to switch handles and pretend this never happened.

Gee, Warden, thanks for denying me the pleasure of smacking down that ignorant little know-nought.  I had post at-the-ready as well.

146 I had post at-the-ready as well.

You know what I meant.

147

Something about "hope" and "audacity" and "change". 

Damn. You forgot "unity." What's wrong with you?

148 There are some energy things on the horizon that could change everything.

<a href="http://powerandcontrol.blogspot.com/2006/11/easy-low-cost-no-radiation-fusion.html">Easy Low Cost No Radiation Fusion</a>

<a href="http://powerandcontrol.blogspot.com/2008/01/wb-7-first-plasma.html">WB-7 First Plasma</a>

149

Bender,

I deeply apologize for raining on your parade.  To make it up to you, Tom has offered to suck your cock.

150 What is going on with this country?  Why are we settling for anyone that will give amnesty?  It is wrong - and I am not prejudice!  I can't even go to my neighborhood park with my granddaughter because it has been taken over by Mexicans!  They look at us as if we were in the wrong for coming to the park.  I could go on and on but FRED is the only candidate that stands for the good of this country.  I have never backed a presidential nomoniee with a donation until FRED amd I will do everything I can to back him!

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