Ron Paul Out Of Fox's NH Debate After All

Despite some on again, off again uncertainty over the last few days, Fox News Channel has confirmed that they will not be inviting Ron Paul to take part in their New Hampshire Debate on Sunday.

Fox, meanwhile, has invited five GOP candidates to a forum with Chris Wallace scheduled for its mobile studio in New Hampshire on Sunday. Rudy Giuliani, Mike Huckabee, John McCain, Mitt Romney and Fred Thompson received invites, leaving Paul and Duncan Hunter on the sidelines.

The network said it had limited space in its studio — a souped-up bus — and that it invited candidates who had received double-digit support in recent polls.

However, Paul is invited to the network's South Carolina debate on January 10th.

I think Paul should have been booted months ago but doing it now, for one debate, seems odd. Is FNC really putting their desire to use a 'souped-up' bus above including candidates? Letting production values trump an airing of ‘ideas’ seems to play into the worst stereotypes of TV news.

Meanwhile, Paul has shown some support in NH (more than Fred anyway) and the event is co-sponsored by the state GOP, which wants him there. Fox should either include him in both or boot him entirely.

Posted by: DrewM. at 02:57 PM



Comments

1 "I paid for this microphone blimp, Mr. Ailes!"

Posted by: Exurban Jon at January 01, 2008 03:01 PM (3GwKL)

2 While I agree with you, I'm wondering if part of why they did this was because ol' Ron started trashing FNC when the rumors came out? I mean, FNC may not have fully decided when RP decided to start trashing them, and they're booting him now as a result. A snotty thing to do, but could be plausible, and maybe they hope he goes Indy or drops by the second debate.

Posted by: sinistar at January 01, 2008 03:05 PM (P17op)

3 Despite my own libertarian leanings, I personally find Ron Paul a nutcase, but regardless of that I remember there being polls that showed him in third place in NH. Given that, this will play exactly into what his supporters expect, and maybe even give him a push.

The thing I find curious and worth remembering is how many moving parts are involved in the NH primary: because independents can choose to vote in either primary, the D's and R's are actually competing against each other as well as among themselves. Many of Ron Paul's independent votes, I suspect, might draw from people otherwise inclined to vote for Obama or Edwards on the D side against Hillary to register a protest against the war.

Posted by: Dave J at January 01, 2008 03:06 PM (cFOX1)

4 I guess I agree with you in principle, with Ron Paul I just can't work up enough sympathy to care.

Beyond that, given how few debates are left till the end of the primaries, this might as well be a national debate whether it's supposed to be for New Hampshire or not. Its real usefulness might be better judged by the national polls.

Posted by: AD at January 01, 2008 03:13 PM (4gDkY)

5 I hope Paul crashes the debate and Fred tosses him out.

Posted by: eman at January 01, 2008 03:23 PM (8iSfZ)

6 There is a significant Paulnut prescence in NH - a lot of it moved there with the Free State Project.

If you look at it from just a NH perspective, you have to include Paul. If you look at it from a National perspective he should have been out 20 or 30 debates ago.

Posted by: Stephen Macklin at January 01, 2008 03:44 PM (Z3kjO)

7 Both Paul and Keyes should be left out of the debates from now on. They've had their say, they've got face time, and have no following to speak of.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at January 01, 2008 03:55 PM (hfyfI)

8 I hope Paul crashes the debate and Fred tosses punches him out.

I fixed it for you.

Posted by: Tinian at January 01, 2008 03:58 PM (1Mq7K)

9 What Paul's supporters don't seem to understand is that the un-vitation is a polite way of preventing the insane uncle from making a mess of himself at the family holiday gathering.

Like Dave J, I'm strongly libertarian (would abolish the IRS in a blink, get the Federal government out of social programs, education, roads, etc.) and even advocate getting rid of property taxes which relegate all of us to renters in the eyes of the government. I don't care if my neighbor abuses substances as long as he doesn't ask me for a dime for his welfare when he burns his brain and body out (as I have a meth-using, wolf-raising neighbor next to my farm, I speak from experience).

But after seeing what kind of under-employed, socially troubled oddballs that follow Paul, and watching his twitchy, disturbed presentations, I wouldn't be caught dead supporting him. I think most reasonably well people here know what I'm talking about... just because the town crazy happens to spout out reason on occasion doesn't mean we need to make him the mayor.

Posted by: redherkey at January 01, 2008 04:29 PM (kjqFg)

10 Keeping Paul out of the debate is like "throwing him in the briar patch". It plays right into his insane "All theneoconMedia Jews are out to get me" base. He did the same thing in Iowa back in June, when the Iowans for TaxRelief (see my post from early July)didn't invite him to their candidate's forum. When he wasn't invited, did his supporters petition to get him in? No, they made calls to the home of the ITRs director and proceeded to cuss out his wife kids, and went on local talk radio to accuse him (the ITR director) of being a paid stooge for either Romney or Giuliani.
These sorts of tactics make the people using them look like stark raving loonies, unless you consider that their target audience largely consists of .....stark raving loonies. When they alienate the mainstream Republicans, they earn a well-deserved banning, which they take to their fruit-loop base to wave around like the proverbial "bloody shirt". By earning the bans, they reinforce their "outsider" image increase their support from the paranoid fringe.

Posted by: Russ from Winterset at January 01, 2008 04:54 PM (BhHL1)

11 It's not often you see a posting that includes: "briar
patch, insane, neocon Jews, stooge, stark
raving loonies (twice), mainstream Republicans, fruit-loop, bloody shirt, and paranoid fringe."

It makes me believe you're more afraid of Ron Paul than you would like to admit.

I think Fox excluding him only reaffirms in the minds of many Americans, left and right, that the media is manipulating the process.

If the man is such a "stark raving loonie," why would that detract from whoever you feel is the best candidate? I would think his behavior would make others look that much more qualified.




Posted by: Tom at January 01, 2008 05:42 PM (1kwK7)

12 Well, Tom. I prefer to keep my trashy entertainment separated from my politics. Hey, I've got no problem with watching Ron Paul do the Springer show. He can do his act right between the "Bigfoot Impregnated my Stepdaughter" and "My Wife can't get off unless I bring a Midget to bed with us" episodes.
As far as Paul's appearances at the debate go, it's a zero sum game. Like it or not, the debate formats have a limited time frame, and any time devoted to Ron Paul is time that the other viable candidates (Rudy, Mitt, Johnny Mac, Fred St. Huck) could be using for discussion of real issues. Paul's acceptance of money support from Stormfront type loons and his insistence on "Fortress America" isolationism make him a non-starter. He's not a viable candidate, and even if he were,his presidency wouldbe a disaster of epic proportions.

Posted by: Russ from Winterset at January 01, 2008 06:18 PM (BhHL1)

13 Like a guy who doesn't believe in evolution is a "viable candidate?"

Now THAT'S funny.

Posted by: Tom at January 01, 2008 06:40 PM (1kwK7)

14 Russ,
I'm certainly not a Ron Paul supporter, but I think an honest process demands all to be heard.

Remember Ross Perot?

Larouche?

Anderson?

Nader?

Posted by: Tom at January 01, 2008 06:45 PM (1kwK7)

15 "It's not often you see a posting that includes: "briar patch, insane, neocon Jews, stooge, stark raving loonies (twice), mainstream Republicans, fruit-loop, bloody shirt, and paranoid fringe."

Actually, it's quite often - in the average Paulbot's post. In fact, it's Dodo-bird-level rare to have a thread infested with Paul supporters that includes none of that.

To really complete it, though, you'd have to add CFR, NAU, the Federal Reserve, the military industrial complex, false flag, and "first they ridicule you,..."

Think of it this way. What does a troll add to this site? I mean sure, we get to make fun of them and it be fun sometimes, but eventually it gets boring and it gets in the way of any real debate. The same with Ron Paul.

Like a guy who doesn't believe in evolution is a "viable candidate?"Now THAT'S funny.

Uh, Tom (or should I say "Mike"?) unless you missed it, that group now includes the guy you're defending

http://youtube.com/watch?v=6JyvkjSKMLw

Posted by: AD at January 01, 2008 06:49 PM (4gDkY)

16
I'd slobber all over Ron Paul's massive schlong any time.

Posted by: Tom at January 01, 2008 06:52 PM (4P1WQ)

17 Remember Ross Perot?Larouche?Anderson?Nader?
Well, shit Tom. You've convinced me. But why stop at Ron Paul? Let's allow Keyes into the debate. And John Cox. Hell, let's open it to the public, like a US Open Golf qualifier. Get all the streetcorner ranters, internet ravers, and brochure-printing cranks up on that stage to give us their positions on the Gold Standard, Zoning Ordinances that forbid letting them keep chickens in an R-1 Residential District, and the US government's mind control rays that warp their minds and compel them to masturbate furiously at least seven times a day.
Or we could ask the Democrats to allow nutters up on stage with them too. That would show that this isn't just a ploy on your part to marginalize the Republican Party. Jackass.

Posted by: Russ from Winterset at January 01, 2008 07:18 PM (BhHL1)

18 Look, if everybody here only wants those with whom they agree or will vote for, what's the fucking point of anybody running, raising millions in donations or even having an opinion?

I asked everybody the other day who they were supporting and had about three people who evidently even knew they wanted nominated so the overall opinions here are rather disingenuous at best.

Right now the Republicans are in deep shit and you know it, too.

P.S. And once again the Oregon Muse rears his self-hating, closeted gay head.Come on out, Dude...

Posted by: Tom at January 01, 2008 07:51 PM (1kwK7)

19 Normally, something like this would help an insurgent candidate by getting him more publicity than otherwise. Unfortunately for Dr. Paul, he has so many ideas that are out of the mainstream and his legislative record is so eccentric that the more publicity he gets, the more people will realize they really don't want him as their President. Will he get more than 9% in the Iowa voting? If not that should be a good enough reason to exclude him from the South Carolina debate, too.


Posted by: klrtz1 at January 01, 2008 07:55 PM (rK/2i)

20 How many times does it need saying ... DON'T FEED THE TROLLS!

Posted by: Bruce at January 01, 2008 08:08 PM (2q+Ss)

21 Look, if everybody here only wants those with whom they agree or will vote for, what's the fucking point of anybody running, raising millions in donations or even having an opinion?

I don't remember you making these arguments when Kucinich was left out of the Iowa debate and, as amazing as it is for a guy who saw a UFO, he's probably less of a nutso than Paul is.
I asked everybody the other day who they were supporting and had about
three people who evidently even knew they wanted nominated so the
overall opinions here are rather disingenuous at best.

Because we don't particularly like our candidates -- doesn't mean we like the guy you have a crush on. Honestly, Tom ("Mike"), the fact that you're here defending him is enough of a reason for me to support leaving Paul out as anything.

(And what happened to: a guy who doesn't believe in evolution isn't a viable candidate?

Now all of a sudden, he is? Come on, man, we're finally at an issue where I might have some sympathy for you and you drop it - run with that some more.)

Posted by: AD at January 01, 2008 08:16 PM (4gDkY)

22 How many times does it need saying ... DON'T FEED THE TROLLS!




Water's already been poured on the Gremlin. The only thing that's left
to do is track down the remaining ones while we wait for the Chinese
guy to come pick up the original and berate us for our western society
not being ready to handle them.

Posted by: AD at January 01, 2008 08:26 PM (4gDkY)

23 AD,
I'm for everybody being included until we make a choice.

Period.

P.S. Brucie: Suck my dick.

Posted by: Tom at January 01, 2008 08:41 PM (1kwK7)

24 Well, whaddya know? Tom really does run that way.

Posted by: Additional Blond Agent at January 01, 2008 09:24 PM (DQDJU)

25 Russ-

Well, Tom. I prefer to keep my trashy entertainment separated from my politics.

It's really a shame that "Law and Order"/"Die Hard 2" fans aren't as scrupulous as yourself...

Or we could ask the Democrats to allow nutters up on stage with them
too. That would show that this isn't just a ploy on your part to
marginalize the Republican Party.

(Psst!-- Al Sharpton...)

Posted by: I am AlGore's sweaty backfat at January 01, 2008 09:33 PM (wb6K+)

26 I wish to be buried in a giant pile of sweaty, naked cocks and I don't care who knows it!

Posted by: Tom at January 01, 2008 10:02 PM (4P1WQ)

27 I realize not having a legitimate candidate is depressing for the Republicans, but the w-h-i-n-i-n-g is unseemly.

Just gut it out...you only have about one more year of the Bushie and then we can get back on track as the most revered country on the planet.

*Oh, and be sure to pass this on to the Huckster: It ain't flat.




Posted by: Tom at January 01, 2008 10:20 PM (1kwK7)

28 Oregon Douche,
Why don't you come out and get it over with? Being a self-hating gay, constantly yapping about being naked and cocks isn't going to make things any better for you.

Is it dark in there...??

Posted by: Tom at January 01, 2008 10:31 PM (1kwK7)

29
Is it dark in there...??
Said the gerbil...

Posted by: The Band at January 01, 2008 10:37 PM (nHRdf)

30 Band,
Can we assume you didn't know Oregon raises gerbils for a living?


Posted by: Tom at January 01, 2008 10:49 PM (1kwK7)

31 Isn't it remarkable how these lefty trolls always resort to vituperation? I find that fascinating. You take any of these assholes who constantly flap their lips about how "rude" conservatives are ... then you give them the slightest slap ... and they always ... ALWAYS ...turn vicious - and normally with sexual innuendo.

I'll turn from my normal posture of not replying to the trolls just this once.

Hey asshole. Fuck. Off.


Posted by: Bruce at January 01, 2008 11:00 PM (2q+Ss)

32 Brucie,
When you refer to "give them the slightest slap"...are these comments from your good buddy, Oregon Douche...what you mean?

"I'd slobber all over Ron Paul's massive schlong any time."

Or, maybe this:

"I wish to be buried in a giant pile of sweaty, naked cocks and I don't care who knows it!"

If someone wants to say something, I think they should have the guts to admit who they are...without the silly homophobic "cock" comments, oh, and constantly whining about "trolls"...as you do, is indicative of your inability to argue your point of view effectively, and that you would rather not hear anything contrary to what you already believe or want to be so.





Posted by: Tom at January 01, 2008 11:13 PM (1kwK7)

33 No, you may not assume anything. But thanks for asking.

Posted by: The Band at January 01, 2008 11:15 PM (nHRdf)

34 Brucie,
Oh, and I've also visited your spectacular blog and found it interesting that someone who thinks as highly of himself as you do, apparently has absolutely no one interested in what you have to say.




Posted by: Tom at January 01, 2008 11:17 PM (1kwK7)

35 Band,
And he says they're feisty, fast and huge.

Posted by: Tom at January 01, 2008 11:18 PM (1kwK7)

36 The question is: are they tasty? In George Bush's AmeriKKKa, I have nothing to eat.

Posted by: The Band at January 01, 2008 11:33 PM (nHRdf)

37 Oregon only allows them entry to another orifice so it's probably hard for him to say.

Posted by: Tom at January 01, 2008 11:36 PM (1kwK7)

38 "I've visited your spectacular blog and found it interesting that someone who thinks as highly of himself as you do, apparently has absolutely no one interested in what you have to say"


. . . Says the guy who's constantly foisting himself on people who have no interest in his company.

Posted by: Tom's cock at January 01, 2008 11:41 PM (du0LM)

39 How about we kill and eat you, instead? Surely you'd be willing to help remedy the massive starvation resulting from 7 years of Bush.

Posted by: The Band at January 01, 2008 11:51 PM (nHRdf)

40 I realize not having a legitimate candidate is depressing for the Republicans, but the w-h-i-n-i-n-g is unseemly.
You do realize, cretin, that no matter who we nominate and how unsatisfied some of us are with the eventual selection, that a Republican is going to cruise to victory in 2008, right?
I mean, look at your fucking shitpile of a candidate's list. The criminal, accomplishment-free harridan that polls unfavorably against cervical cancer. The vapid, boneheaded, accomplishment-free, I-wouldn't-be-running-for-dog-catcher-if-I-had-lighter-skin clown whose big claim to fame is, uh, um, voting with the majority in a machine state for a whole term. The dead child channeling, ambulance chasing, populism-slinging-from-his-palacial-estate snake oil salesman.
Oh, poorTommy, I'm afraid that even Ron Paul naked and soaked in lamp oil appears "legitimate" to sane people next to the cavalcade of the absurd on the Donk ticket.

Posted by: VJay at January 01, 2008 11:57 PM (kico6)

41 May we talk about why _I_ don't have a blog or a hot cock to suckle? It's because I have nothing but imaginary family to stand around me whilst I joust my intertoobs fiends. After all, it is all about meeeee! Give me some lurving, chickies! I am Tom of the Boys, and I have something everybody wants!

Posted by: Tom (Mike) at January 01, 2008 11:59 PM (jFpwo)

42 Band,
Good lord, I've got Oregon, whoever du0LM jFpwo all already providing all kinds of bizzarre, homophobic innuendos, insinuating they want to eat me.

And now YOU want to eat me, too?

Who has the time in the day?

Unless of course...do you boys happen to...live together?

That's one BIG closet.

Posted by: Tom at January 02, 2008 12:15 AM (1kwK7)

43 I love all of the attention and, not to mention, the potential for hot, ghey secks. MMMYummy!

Posted by: Tom (Mike) at January 02, 2008 12:18 AM (jFpwo)

44 I am _not_ homophobic. I love hot cock! Why do you keep repressing me?

Posted by: Tom's cock at January 02, 2008 12:19 AM (VUjja)

45 Hehehe...my cock said "pressing me." Or close enough. Yeeehawwww!

Posted by: Tom (Mike) at January 02, 2008 12:26 AM (jFpwo)

46 See, don't ya see, Tom? All these years, your pain, your confusion, it comes from one place. Your denial of who you are . . . Of who, we are - You must face me at last!

Posted by: Tom's cock at January 02, 2008 12:36 AM (VUjja)

47 You obviously don't care about the starving, Tom. Hillary would be disappointed.

Posted by: The Band at January 02, 2008 12:56 AM (nHRdf)

48 Democrats: 5

Republicans: 6

It's no big deal.

Posted by: Tom at January 02, 2008 01:02 AM (1kwK7)

49 You girls would make a good punch line for an old joke: A good Republican'll do that.

Well, get back to it...I'mway outtaway erehay.


Posted by: Tom at January 02, 2008 01:07 AM (1kwK7)

50 Yeah, keep running you heartless bastard. Do I mean that little to you? Are you going to deny me forever? Once you turn out the lights and flip on the latest Ethan Hawke movie you come running to me, but out in public it's like you don't even know me. Run you son of a bitch, run . . . Sniff

Posted by: Tom's cock at January 02, 2008 01:26 AM (nd8Ki)

51 Wow lot of a**holes blasting Dr. Paul on this site. I especially like the guys that say "I'm a libertarian but...". Go vote for the guy that marries his cousin or the preacher who wants a national ban on smoking and open borders. Better yet go for the moron..I mean mormon who changes his beliefs to fit his audience. How about unstable McCain with his clenched teeth and amnesty bills? You are a bunch of pathetic losers and it sure sounds like your going to vote in kind.

Posted by: Jeff at January 02, 2008 02:34 AM (a/xQK)

52 "You are a bunch of pathetic losers"

As opposed to those who type Ron Paul's name into google late at night to troll every single site that even mentions him.

Posted by: AD at January 02, 2008 02:41 AM (4gDkY)

53
51 Wow lot of a**holes blasting Dr. Paul on this site. I especially like the guys that say "I'm a libertarian but...". Go vote for the guy that marries his cousin or the preacher who wants a national ban on smoking and open borders. Better yet go for the moron..I mean mormon who changes his beliefs to fit his audience. How about unstable McCain with his clenched teeth and amnesty bills? You are a bunch of pathetic losers and it sure sounds like your going to vote in kind.
Strange that you would leave out Fred Thompson. Or is it...not so strange? Just what do you have against Thompson, anyway? You're leaving him out on purpose because you're part of the conspiracy to derail his campaign! Admit it!

Posted by: The Band at January 02, 2008 02:53 AM (nHRdf)

54 What really makes no sense about this decision is that FOX established its own standards for inviting candidates, and Ron Paul met those very criteria. He is squarely in fifth place in Iowa (one of the independent qualifiers), and he is in third in NH (squarely ahead of Guiliani, who is invited). Incidentally, when the "undecideds" are accounted for (plus the standard of error), Paul may finish THIRD in Iowa. Won't FOX have egg on its face then!?

Posted by: Kenneth Terrell at January 02, 2008 10:36 AM (WeuJ6)

55 Now god forbid I talk of any of the truth or i'll be labeled just another "Ron Paul Nutcase."

"The regional Federal Reserve banks are not government agencies. ...but are independent, privately owned and locally controlled corporations." -- Lewis vs. United States, 680 F. 2d 1239,9th Circuit 1982

"Most Americans have no real understanding of the operation of the
international money lenders. The accounts of the Federal Reserve System
have never been audited. It operates outside the control of Congress
and manipulates the credit of the United States" -- Sen. Barry
Goldwater

"It is well that the people of the nation do not understand our banking and monetary system, for if they did, I believe there would be a revolution before tomorrow morning." -- Henry Ford

This is what Ron Paul is about. If any of you would stop letting people tell you facts and start to find things out for your own maybe the country wouldn't have such an uninformed voting base. This is the land of the sound clip. If your news requires you to read more than a few pages you neglect it. Find out the real monetary system of this country and than choose not to vote for him. Keep thinking Britney Spears latest breakdown is CNN worthy news. 500 billion Euros this year printed so Euro banks could meet the withdrawl demands?? And How much more in America? Every infusion of money makes your net worth drop. That dollar in your pocket is now worth 99 cents. If you were to buy a government savings bond, it would not appreciate to being worth anything at our current rates of inflation. I dont want to tell you, go find out on your own. Do research on Inflation, The Federal Reserve, find it out for yourself. Wake up. Its honestly sad for America. True Patriots.

I at my own heart know that because of the general ignorance of our voting base, we will have 4 more years of CFR candidates this time instead of SBs.

Regardless, Ron Paul is the first politician to ever say things like this, to bring the obvious faults of our government up on a public forum, was it really a surprise he was banned, and that alone gives me hope for the next 16 years.

Thank god Ron Paul's fundraising has been UNMATCHED and he will continue regardless, if for nothing more than to educate just a few Americans. I would spend 20 million to educate 10% of America anyday.

Ron Paul 2008.

Posted by: Ryan Murray at January 05, 2008 02:34 PM (xvsn6)

56 You clowns who believe in evolution should do dome good homework on all the competing theories of origin that trounce evolution. Paul is in good company with Jesus and Moses. What have you done to change the world for the better. Perhaps you have not evolved to Godhood yet.

Posted by: j marra at January 06, 2008 10:12 AM (83WYQ)

57 Wow.So many ignorant people on this website it is scary.
Ron Paul doesn't have a following?
1. I guess people are ignoring the fact that he had more individual donaters than any other presidential candidate last quarter. He didn't get 20 million from a few corporate sponsors, he got it by having more actual people care about his campaign than the otherguys.
2. National TELEPHONE polls are of course the worst metric for measuring support of a guy who's supporters are first time voters, independents, and former democrats. They poll republicanswhovote republican. OPEN polls such as internet polls, where anyone can reply show a much different story.
3. Despite spending less money and making fewer visits to Iowa than Guliani, Ron Paul more than doubled Guliani. Yet Guliani is the viable candidate?
Some of you guys are willfully ignorant seems to me.


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