This is a Republican?

FN, NQ!

Remember when Rudy was too liberal?

At least he has the excuse of being in New York City.

For all of Bill Clinton's rutting, I still do not look forward to having some Promisekeeper squish with a I Love My Wife bumpersticker as President either.

Huckabee is a soft, weak man.

W-would you like syrup with those w-waffles?

What the hell is wrong with this guy?  I wouldn't elect him as dogcatcher- he'd let all the rabid dogs loose if they licked his hand.

More importantly- what the hell is wrong with his supporters?  Have they not bothered to do any research on their guy at all?

Dateline January, 2009, at the Clinton/Obama inauguration:

Remember when people cared if James Dobson said he wouldn't vote for a candidate, or people cared if James Dobson said they just weren't Christian enough to be president?

Heh.

I like how it points out not to long ago we were making fun of Obama for saying he wanted to negotiate with Iran and invade Pakistan.

Because that's totally idiotic and unworkable.

Now we're nominating his pasty-white pro-life doppleganger.

Hey Ace!  Wouldn't it have been nice to have Huckabee as your governor back when you were doing month long hobo killing sprees?  You could've run wild with no worries of ever staying in jail longer than a few hours!!!

Recent evidence suggests that the Huckster was quite willing to overlook 12 victim letters - pleading against release - about uncharged, untried rape events in the case of Wayne Drumond.

Also, apparently, he would be all too willing to release Jeff Dahmer and Son of Sam if a minister or other clergy spoke on their behalf.

?

It cannot be other than certain that a bright future opens for minister-lawyers, minister-lobbyists and minister-contractors.

.

Bah, another comment eaten by the New and Busted Comments Thingy.

Someone please tell Pixy to take a long enough break from fucking kangaroos dressed in henati costumes to fix it.

I've said it before, I'll say it again.  Fuckauntbee isn't the problem, he's a symptom.  The problem we have is our primary process which gives a wildly disproportionate weight to the votes of evangelicals and hard core social cons in the early states.  Demographics would suggest the problem is only going to get worse unless our primary process is modified to be more representative of the entire party.  Don't forget, Pat Robertson won the Iowa Straw Poll before eventually losing the caucus to Dole.  Pat fucking Robertson.

Huckabee proves the point.  The only thing he has going for him is the Southern Baptist preacher angle and it seems powerful enough to override a record that would destroy anyone else.

For Baptists, it's all about faith--faith alone saves, so having faith makes one's sins basically irrelevant, especially those sins committed before one was born again

That's got shit to do with shit.

You're right, but it's irrelevant to what you're trying to say with it, which is wrong.

Faith alone saves and sin becomes irrelevant - with regard to eternal salvation. Baptist theology does not teach that sin becomes irrelevant in terms of prison sentances.

That's just fluffy headed idiocy on Huckleberry's part, something he's no newbie at.

Wow! This guy makes Howard Dean look sane and electable. If we nominate this guy, we deserve to be crushed in '08. He's about 13 points ahead in Iowa. Come on, Iowa, get your heads out of your asses. As a certain tennis player used to say: "You cannot be serious!"

The Iowa democrats came to their senses in '04; let's hope their GOP counterparts do the same next month.

The evangelicals did exactly the same thing to McCain in 1999 in support of Bush.  The run-up to the SC primary then was extremely ugly with lots of whispers about how McCain was an Episcopalian, he fielded repetitive, obnoxious abortion questions (despite a long, long pro-life voting record), nasty push polls telling people Bush was the only "real" Christian and other nonsense.

It worked to get Bush the win in South Carolina.  I guess it shouldn't surprise me to see Huckabee's supporters (probably many of the same folks as did it to McCain last time, actually) do it again.   Mormonism is an easier target than Episcopalianism too.

Hey, remember when there was a political party that believed in liberty, and the responsibility to deal with the consequences of your liberty? 

Yeah, me neither. 

Clarification--a lot of McCain supporters in 1999 thought Bush and Rove were either running or participating in the religious campaign against McCain.  I didn't believe it then and still would guess they weren't into that.

Huckabee shows himself to be a much worse individual and politician than Bush is, and he will/would do much worse damage to the GOP if he was to gain the nomination.

I'm a Presbyterian, but I am well versed in Baptist theology and doctrines as I attended a Baptist school for most of my junior high and high school days, and there was extensive doctrinal teaching there.  My beliefs about things such as predestination and dispensationalism are things over which I have had spirited debates with my Baptist friends, but I have NEVER had to have a debate over whether prisoners who have committed violent crimes should be freed if they have had a conversion.  No Baptist I have ever spoken to has expressed such a desire.

For this reason, I am not entirely sure whether Huckabee is familiar with the particulars of the Bible or of his denomination's beliefs.  If he is basing these commutations on his religious beliefs, he is reading something into the Bible that many Biblical scholars would have some disagreement with.

what the hell is wrong with his supporters?  Have they not bothered to do any research on their guy at all?

They've done enough research to see themselves in him: They'll forgive any political sin if only a candidate declares himself pro-life and he'll forgive any criminal sin if only a thug declares himself pro-Jesus. It's a match made in heaven.

I've even had Baptists explained to me that because they're saved it doesn't really matter what they do, so they can do pretty much whatever they want

Well anecdotally that's the exact opposite of my experiences and theologically, it's a bunch of crap. Those are bad baptists.

(Again, speaking theologically) the bible does teach that many of the people who claim to be Christian and are seen as Christian will in fact wind up in hell, and the actual Christians will be fewer in number.

Again, as per Baptist theology, the difference here is purgatory. Most protestants don't beleive in any form of it, and I've no idea where the hell the Catholics get the idea from. But in the afterlife they beleive faith absolves sin (without confession or any ritualistic duty, merely faith). They also beleive repentance can be sought without any ritualistic duty, merely honest intent.

 And they beleive repentance is not neccessary for salvation...however, it is not costless either, as your sins are said to weigh heavily upon you in this life and give you much grief and suffering which only repentance can lift.

In addition, they teach that, along with alot of Christians not actually being Christian - they don't presume to judge who - that once you 'accept Christ into your heart" that Christ will in fact change your heart, and an honest conversion will be expressed in deeds as well as words. So if you're running around raping people with no care in the world or repentance - yeah, most baptists are probably not buying that. It's not a legitimate faith, or (the baptist reasoning goes) you wouldn't be still doing those things if you had Jesus in your heart.

So there are some theological differences, but none of it equates to you running around jacking other peoples shit free of guilt.

 a religion that says your actions don't impact your chance of salvation

But it does teach that your actions will impact the quality of your life.

I'm neither baptist nor catholic. I'm just arguing theology.

The Baptist view of running around sinning with no repentance is 1) you will suffer personally for it (2) if it's bad enough, you're probably not really Christian at all. Most Baptists would probably say the attitude you describe is probably evidence of an insincere faith that won't cut the mustard on judgement day, because had they ACTUALLY had Christ in their heart - rather then just going through the motions and the ritual and faking it - they wouldn't think that way. Though they can't presume to judge.

You're right in that deeds don't matter. But they beleive deeds follow faith. Faith will itself, result in good deeds (not perfection, but as much as any Catholic or Jew who beleives deeds matter). They don't believe good deeds are neccessary for salvation, but they do beleive that salvation results in good deeds and saved people don't just run around raping and pillaging with impugnity.

Same thing...different order. You say "a person must do both". They say "you must only do one, because it's impossible to do just one, so the other will happen without your doing once you nail the first"

Can we not have a Bible thumper for our next Prez?

Not that I have anything against the Bible- I'm just a little weary of the preachiness.

The first link above, from a Mormon, explains that yes, in the same sense that all of God's created beings are his "spirit children" and are hence his sons and, to one another, "brothers," Satan is held to be a brother of Christ, as are we all. But that is the extent off the familial relationship. It's not as if Mormons have elevated Satan to an exalted status called "spirit child of God" and thereby deified him or put him on par with Christ.

The first error here is that Christ is not a "created being". So if that is the basis of Lucifer's "brotherhood" with Jesus Christ, then such brotherhood does not exist.

It's hard to explain but let me try it this way:

What you're saying looks to me like this:

'When you look at the mafia, it's no wonder all these people are running around being proffessional killers when 30 hail mary's is all it takes for absolution"

It's OK to sin, so long as you say you're sorry afterwards and pay the cost. It's like a purchase. A stereo costs $5. Or stealing the stereo costs 5 hail maries and a month in purgatory. If you feel like you can afford the penalty, go ahead and purchase yourself some debauchery.

So long as you're a good accountant, you stay all squared up with God and everything will be spiffy and you've earned salvation.

Would you agree?

I'm guessing no.

"it’s"

Hope you're doing a grammar check, too.

The fact that Huckabee granted clemency to murderers based on the recommendation of minister friends brings his theology, and how that theology colors his understanding of the world, into the discussion.

No, when you put it that way, I don't disagree. It probably has a lot to, a tremendous deal, with his theology.

The key  change being the substitution of "baptist" with "his". That's what I was trying to say. This isn't "baptist" like you were saying you thought it was. This is pure Huckleberry. Huckleberry theology. But not Baptist theology. He's got his head up his ass again is all.

I'm not baptist, I take no offense. I'm just arguing with you for the sake of veracity. I think you were wrong to see this as a direct result of Baptist assumptions.

Gabe....you missed the context completely if you're answering my rhetorical questions. Or rhetorical example, as it were.

That was the point. It wasn't suppose to be a valid assessment of Catholicism but a quickie glance centered on bad actors.

As to compare to baptists who think "I can kill you where you stand because Jesus allready forgave me".

As far as purgatory goes, Entropy, it comes from the biblical belief that "nothing unclean will enter Heaven." We also know from the Bible that even those who are saved are not without sin. So Purgatory arises as a place between mortal life on Earth, where even those who are saved are unclean, and eternal life with God, where nothing unclean can go.

Yes, that's what it is.

But why-ever it arises, it seems to arise a purely theoretical concept. No biblical source (outside the Church itself) ever mentioned nary a peep of any such thing.

It's like the Higgs Boson or the Graviton in the Catholic Standard Model I guess.

No one enters Heaven unclean, OK, but no one said anything about a health quarantine in metaphysical Ellis Island. If you can purge you of your sins in Purgatory over 5,000 years, he could just as easily purge you of your sins in Elevator over 5 seconds.

But why-ever it arises, it seems to arise a purely theoretical concept. No biblical source (outside the Church itself) ever mentioned nary a peep of any such thing.

It's like the Higgs Boson or the Graviton in the Catholic Standard Model I guess.

The man seems incapable of abstract or logical, disinterested thought or adherence to general principles.

Right on the money.  And I'm not just sucking up because I want to date your sister.

You can be religious withoug being an idiot.  This man is not grounded.  I can see him being easily swayed.  How is he going to stand up to powerful forces?

Reading this I come to one conclusion. Huchabee is the Republican Jimmy Carter.

I wonder what the tragedy will be?

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Well, with four Seattle officers dead, what say you now pollyanna?

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