1

'Since Our Boys withdrew from Basra’s city centre and palace to the airport a few miles away back in September attacks on them have fallen by 90 per cent.'

'Mr Brown quoted Sir Winston Churchill and Field Marshal Montgomery as he thanked Our Boys for their “courage and bravery”.'

Mr Brown knows nothing of courage and bravery, and is not fit to use Churchill's words.

2

The Brits may have fucked some stuff up, but they went in with us, and many of them didn't leave Iraq alive.  So, they deserve plenty of slack.  Hell, we made plenty of fuck-ups, too.

I think the IA can handle what the Brits leave behind.

3 Yon doesn't seem to think the Brits are screw ups either.  He's wrong?

4 What eman said - Thanks for the help mates .



Brit and US military leaders have never agreed on much.. WWII is a prime example of how our military strategies have never quite meshed.

PS: Aftenposten-english has a small article about Condi Rice lobbying the Norge PM for more /combat/ NATO troops in Afghanistan. Nada.

5

I have nothing bad to say about Our Boys.

My critique was against PM Brown, who - this article makes clear - hasn't used Our Boys in the surge. Bush through Petraeus has, against great opposition in the US, risked the lives of US troops to clear out al-Qaeda from the Sunni Triangle. Brown on the other hand has chosen to pull UK troops out of harm's way, allowing Shi'a militias to terrorise the locals; and now he's pulling them out of Iraq entirely.

Brown has robbed the UK's army of its honour.

6 I don't think the British troops are screw ups but I think the Brit political leadership has been less than stellar.

That said, the British Army has never shown any enthusiasm for doing the kind of COIN work did at first and are now doing again.  They seemed to have taken a very hands off approach to letting the Iraqis work things out for themselves.

The IA or perhaps more accurately the Iraqi government, doesn't exactly have a great record of taking on Shiia militant groups, do they? I mean, it's very dangerous for them to do so politically.

So violence may subside in Basra but what if these militant groups, many with ties to Iran, take over and start strong arming the population? Is that going to be good for the long term stability of the region and the country as a whole?  I don't think so.

And Brown is really bad news for the UK armed forces. As Chancellor of the Exchequer (the Brits do a great job with their government titles) he was responsible for budget cuts which have gutted their manpower and equipment. It's likely to get worse now that he's PM.

7

The Brit politcal leaderhsip has been less than stellar.  Ours has been five star worthy?  At the moment, at least according to Allah, the Shia militias are concentratiing on terrorizing one another.   Maybe it would be a good idea to let them? http://hotair.com/archives/2007/12/07/sadr-brings-out-the-long-knives-for-rogue-mahdi-army-members/

Look, I'm a big supporter of the Iraq mission.  I'd just as soon see the Brits stay.  But you know, sooner or later the Iraqis are going to have to control Basra. The Brits easing up now might end up being a good way to guage how far they have to go.  As long as we're living in hypothetical land.  What if the Iraqis handle it okay (meaning as well as we handled Selma Alabama in the 1960s) ?  Will you call the Brits genuises and enshrine Brow in the Churchill Hall of Fame?

8 And by "how far they have to go..." I mean the Iraqis.

9 We just can't tell the Brits how to fight a war. It just don't work like that. My god, people still argue about shit that happened in The Ardennes Offensive..  60+ frakkin years ago.

I'll play armchair general - What came first .. the chicken or the egg? COIN or the Anbar Awakening? I think its very difficult to tell what really tipped the scales in our favor. Did COIN prompt it or did Iraqis finally have their fill of death and gore and rubble and blood. Or was it just plain synchronicity and fate and a damn good general and decent Iraqi men finally standing up to the bullies?. People will be debating this for years to come.

10 the British were dealing with the Shia the Americans were dealing with the Sunnis
The Sunnis represent 20% of the Iraqi population with a tottally different agenda.

11 "What if the Iraqis handle it okay (meaning as well as we handled Selma Alabama in the 1960s) ?"

Uh -- WTF?

12 Meaning the Iraqis are going to screw plenty of things up as they take more control of the country,  but so have we  (Selma during the sixties wasn't exaclty the magic kingdom.)  What we're looking for is  a representative Democracy that doesn't export terrorism or breed Islamist insanity or produce a civil war.  If they mange that, and I begin to think they might.  They will be far, far ahead of our Middle Eastern allies.   Predicting disaster every time they assume control of anything is the MSM's job, not ours. 

13 the Americans were dealing with the Sunnis

Uh, yeah. 'cuz there are no Shiites in Baghdad and no Kurds in the North.

The Americans have been dealing with all three factions in Iraq since 2003.

14

Things turning out alright in spite of his cowardice wouldn't suddenly make Brown a great stategist.  He's a pussy regardless of the outcome.

The Iraqis may be alright with the Brits gone, but it is foolhardy to think that Brown's decision was anything but a political one.  He's pulling the troops because Iraq is very unpopular with the Brits and he wants to keep the proles happy.  Declaring victory as if he were a military leader is just a smokescreen for the retreat.

15 Your site Cool
I am very pleased with the service. Thank you for the extra 4 samples. When dealing with people so far away, and through the internet, I sometimes wonder if I will even receive anything for my money. I would not hesitate to use your services again or to recommend you to friends. Again, Thank You.

16

I would like to thank all the commenters for their kind words about our UK military forces, for whom I have as much respect and awe as I do for the US forces. I hope you all appreciate that this withdrawal is NOT  supported well in military circles.

You have to bear in mind that since Blair left, we now have a cabinet much more akin to your congress, politically speaking, than we used to.

Brown and the rest of his f*ckwit nanny stater morons are desperately trying to pitch Iraq as "Tony's War" to suck up to our defeatist left.

I just live in hope that the UK, like France and Germany will vote for a conservative government come the next election.

Always assuming of-course that we have any sovreignty left after Gordon the Moron sells us down the river to the EU bureaucrats!

17 HEY!

Where are MY samples?!

18

Napier sounds cool

Montgomery sucks.

By chance, watched the classic Charge of the Light Brigade again. The movie, claiming an element of authenticity, portrayed events as occuring in INDIA when in fact, those events were part of the Crimean conflict in SYRIA. British anti-India sentiment at the time of independence when the movie was made warped generations of Westerners' passer-by conception of historical content. 

On record, where things happen and why matters.

Time will tell how Brown rues the day.

19 You know what the Brits need?  A refresher course on the "cunning use of flags."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=djMFKYTrckA

20

I got your samples right here.

Anyway, the British Army is getting screwed by its political masters again. Big shock, happens to us every now and then too. The problem is stability in the South means "pro-Iranian thugs enforcing Sharia Light".

21 ... those events were part of the Crimean conflict in SYRIA.

You're kidding, right? You can't be that stupid.

22
The fact that the UK has only a part time minister of defense tells you how much they value their fighting men and women. Oh where are the Thatchers of yesteryear . . .

23

Hey, let corvan put lipstick on his pig.  It makes him happy.

Too bad our AF still has a base down there in Basra.  My guess is that things will not be quite so wonderful down there once the Brits leave, and with Bush bringing divisions of our forces home too.

Our guys in Basra will be left with their asses hanging out, and just wishful thinking to protect them from those lovely Shia fellows?  Well, wishful thinking and fighter jets....but will they be allowed to use them, or will there be too much concern about collateral damage?

24 Oh, and our guys hate going down to Basra already.  It ain't gonna get better once the Brits leave.

25 ... those events were part of the Crimean conflict in SYRIA.

did we quit when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?

26 Brown had to leave because his countrymen have almost all become socialists who want their benefits and see no self interest in Iraq. Blair wanted to do the right thing but he also did not want Britain to lose its relationship with what is still the worlds most powerful country. In return for this he was given a less taxing job in the south of Iraq which was handled well in most respects. He probably also did not think the war would last so long. Primitive Islam will not be overcome with munitions. It will persist  even if we occupy Iraq forever. It can only be broken by the forces of capitalism in its classic sense, materialism and  the eroding effects science has on faith.

27

Funky Chicken-what with the Brits leaving Basra I can see it either falling to us to patrol (some brigade will get rerouted to that AO as opposed to where they might otherwise have been sent) or maybe we will get the Poles to pick up the slack.

Regardless, we will still have places like Bucca, Cedar II and Talil that need to be kept up, so someone will get tasked with keeping the roads clear.

28 I got an idea funky, why don't we let you surrender, and scream epithets at the Brits while you do it?  That's real helpful.

29

corvan, it's the brit politicians who are surrendering.  making nice speeches about it before doing it doesn't change what it is.

and it leaves our people exposed to more danger.

but I guess that's OK by you. 

30 No, it's not okay.  But it is too early to claim all of Southern Iraq a complete disaster, as well.  Time will tell, but signs right now are hopeful.  Try to be patient.  And try not to spit on the Brits.  A lot of them have died to give the Iraqis this chance. 

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