Anti-War General Quits VoteVets.org (A MoveOn Front Group), Joins Pro-War Vets For Freedom

Because, see, the surge is working, and General "BetrayUs" apparently isn't betraying us at all.

Comments

1 If you remember about a year ago I defended Batiste here, saying that he wasn't necessarily a partisan democrat, but simply a man who thought that Rumsfeld's strategy was wrong and damaging the army.

Just a reminder that the opposition isn't always in bad faith.

Posted by: MlR at December 08, 2007 05:10 PM (mX6h5)

2
If he joined a MoveOn.org front group, yeah, he did act in bad faith.

Posted by: aoshq janitorial & escort service at December 08, 2007 05:27 PM (km7Lo)

3 No, judging by his testimony and subsequent actions he's someone who was pissed after watching his army put in a difficult position, but not being a political genius, went to the side that was yelling a lot about it and ostensibly pretended it gave a shit. I know a number of them.

Posted by: MlR at December 08, 2007 05:39 PM (mX6h5)

4 Not everyone has domestic political acumen, particularly when they're distracted on the issue they most care about.

Posted by: MlR at December 08, 2007 05:39 PM (mX6h5)

MlR, would those be your comments to this post?

I'm reading through the comments now, and your main point would seem to be:

Rumsfeld is like McNamara, because: both got some big ideas right, particularly about hearts and minds of the occupied population; but hamstrung their own cause by coupling these ideas with some rotten ideas, primarily concerning the hearts and minds of their own troops.

As for the generals who had cried foul back then, you handled them incidentally and you didn't name any of them (including Batiste). You didn't get into whether the generals had integrity. However you did make this comment:

"20 Problem is that while the Democrats are happy to let these guys speak, I don't trust them for a minute to actually back them once they get to power. "

And you later linked Colonel Hamm to "Democratic talking points"; which admittedly lies out of scope both of your argument then and your post now. (And you were certainly not the "RlsWQ" hit-n-run wingnut - Moby? - who was accusing all these guys of being paid shills of MoveOn.org; which someone else mistakenly attributed to you.)

As Batiste-defences go, yours was very implicit; but it was fair of you even to defend him implicitly, given the paranoia of some of the other commenters then.

Posted by: David Ross at December 08, 2007 05:41 PM (doif8)

6 The Kostards were defending Keith Kerr eventhough he wasn't even a General in the military but the California Reserve.

Posted by: Dirk at December 08, 2007 05:52 PM (AJx67)

7 Not everyone has domestic political acumen, particularly when they're distracted on the issue they most care about.

So, your defense is that the general is an idiot?

Posted by: aoshq janitorial & escort service at December 08, 2007 06:01 PM (km7Lo)

aoshq: No, his defence is that the general is headstrong and careless. It may make him a bad general, even a bad short-term analyst; but it says nothing about his ability to think when he is clear headed and sober.

We just have to hope he's sober now.

Posted by: David Ross at December 08, 2007 06:08 PM (doif8)

9 The important thing to remember here is that there are a lot of unsucked cocks in the world, and I'm just the man to solve that problem.

Posted by: Tom at December 08, 2007 06:12 PM (rZ5uY)

10 I wonder what kindergarten insult the MoveOn crowd can make out of his surname?

Posted by: Trimegistus at December 08, 2007 06:22 PM (CpuBG)

11 That's nice and all, but fuck him and the horse he rode in on. This guy has the vision of a freaking blind cave fish. The handwriting was on the wall a year ago even before the so called surge happened as long as one was willing to you know...look at the telltales, read the tea leaves, and actually pay attention to what Yon, Roggio, Fumento, etc were writing.

Posted by: Purple Avenger at December 08, 2007 07:00 PM (wWoFq)

12 I still won't forgive this guy.

Posted by: Michael Laurence at December 08, 2007 07:23 PM (M0QEs)

13 In other cheerful news, Medea Benjamin and Code Pink arrested in Paklistan,

http://www.nbc11.com/news/14781666/detail.html?rss=bay&psp=news

Screaming, "But I'm an American! I'm an American!" as she was hauled off.

Posted by: Kickback Jack Murtha at December 08, 2007 07:32 PM (l3IrE)

14 It took him a year to figure out what Moveon.org is all about? It took him three months after the 'General Betrayus' add to figure this out? The guy is either an idiot or a poll-follower. He clearly could care less about our success or failure in Iraq. Possible candidate for Hillary's Chief of Staff?

Posted by: Mark in Portland at December 08, 2007 08:01 PM (CQo+M)

Sorry, but no. He turned into an idiot somewhere along the line. Maybe a blow to the head or a stroke. They don't make headstrong, careless idiots general officers. It looks like he sustained a brain injury about 2 yrs ago.

Let me be the first to say "Welcome aboard stupidass!", now go and get everyone a juice box.

Posted by: rickinstl at December 08, 2007 08:31 PM (6XDdL)

16 It looks like he sustained a brain injury about 2 yrs ago.

He got the standard liberal lobotomy and spine removal.

Posted by: Purple Avenger at December 08, 2007 09:24 PM (wWoFq)

17 US reversal on Iran intel reflects breaking of the ranks: analysts

"It's a fundamental reversal of civil-military relations, and intelligence and political relationships, that were obvious in 2002," said Ray Takeyh, an expert on the Middle East at the Council on Foreign Relations."This is ours," a senior intelligence official said this week, telling reporters that policymakers had no input in the conclusions of the National Intelligence Estimate, as the assessment is called.

The US reversal on Iran's nuclear weapons program has exposed a breaking of ranks within a waning administration, with US intelligence and military professionals asserting themselves on issues of war and peace, analysts said.

Senior US intelligence officials said this week they were responding to new information, subjected to more rigorous analysis than in the past, in declaring with "high confidence" that Iran halted a covert nuclear weapons program in 2003.

The US military also increasingly has taken its own tack since the ouster of Donald Rumsfeld as defense secretary, quietly but firmly distancing itself from White House saber rattling on Iran.

The tough talk reached a peak with President George W. Bush's warning on October 17 of the threat of "World War III" if Iran acquires the knowledge to make nuclear weapons, language reminiscent of US rhetoric leading up to the Iraq invasion.

"In many ways this narrative suggests the irrelevance of the Bush White House, the irrelevance of the president himself," he said.

Posted by: Tom at December 08, 2007 10:02 PM (1kwK7)

18 See, I love to plagiarise crap without attribution. Especially while commenting on a thread which has nothing to do with whatever point I'm making. And while masturbating to pictures of the Bush daughters. In my own feces.

Posted by: Tom at December 08, 2007 10:06 PM (doif8)

Lemme guess who wrote the fucking hilarious (unintentionally) NIE hack piece above- Joe Klien (aka Hillarys designated MSM cunt licker)?

No? Wait- was it Krugman? No? Hmmm, gotta be the Times or the Post.

Either way, its some funny shit.

Im sure a few idiots will look at it and actually think the NIE is "the truth" and that Bush is a "lame duck" (as he shits on the heads of the entire anti-war wing of the Dem party by repeatedly getting them to roll over like little bitch dogs on Iraq war voting).... LOL

Posted by: TMF at December 08, 2007 10:16 PM (+Ac3z)

"Senior Intelligence" officials. LOL

WHich one, the one that took it in the ass over missing 9-11 of the one who took it in the ass over missing Iraqs WMDs?

And "Roy Takeh". Guffaw!

Posted by: TMF at December 08, 2007 10:19 PM (+Ac3z)

21 No, they make a lot of careless idiots general officers. I have seen officers make general who weren't even competent battalion and brigade commanders.

Batiste was one of the guys who was passed over for higher rank after a rather ordinary combat command tour with the 1st Infantry Division (Mechanized). He wasn't the sort of agile counterinsurgency-minded officer who even Rumsfeld wanted to see advance. Rumsfeld had a lot to do with getting Petraeus his third star and a tour right back in Iraq after the 101st came home from OIF1.

I think the reason a lot of these former division commanders hated Rumsfeld was the fact they didn't get their third star since he deemed their skill sets as relevant as horse cavalry.

Posted by: SGT Dan at December 08, 2007 10:38 PM (oOQel)

22 Do you idiots know how to GOOGLE???

Good lord...

Posted by: Tom at December 08, 2007 11:40 PM (1kwK7)

23 That's nice and all, but fuck him and the horse he rode in on. This guy has the vision of a freaking blind cave fish. The handwriting was on the wall a year ago even before the so called surge happened as long as one was willing to you know...look at the telltales, read the tea leaves, and actually pay attention to what Yon, Roggio, Fumento, etc were writing.

In a word, bullshit.

Posted by: MlR at December 08, 2007 11:45 PM (mX6h5)

24 David Ross, etc.

What it it with you pussies?

Constantly posting comments, but not using your own name or moniker?

Come out of the closet for Christ's sake.

Gutless punks.

Posted by: Tom at December 08, 2007 11:47 PM (1kwK7)

25 David Ross: "I'm something of a religious-history fan:"

No, you're something of a gutless sycophant.

*I love it: "a religious-history fan."

Which team do you like the most, Dave?

Posted by: Tom at December 08, 2007 11:50 PM (1kwK7)

26 Now that the "surge" is working so well...how long does everybody think we'll have to stick around?

Posted by: Tom at December 08, 2007 11:51 PM (1kwK7)

27 One more thing. If anyone here wants a blowjob, I charge $10. Half off if you let me swallow.

Posted by: Tom at December 09, 2007 12:04 AM (rZ5uY)

28 When the Iraqi government says so.

Posted by: Captain Obvious at December 09, 2007 12:05 AM (i1jdV)

This "tom" person is starting to sound an awful lot like Goldstein's buddy "deb".

Uh, "tom", you may be a few milligrams away from having your meds completely dialed in. Why not get that checked out? Getting sane might be a welcome change for you.

Or you could just fuck right off and die. Doesn't affect me either way, but for all I know your mom still gives a shit.

Posted by: rickinstl at December 09, 2007 12:51 AM (6XDdL)

30 "When the Iraqi government says so."

You're kidding, right?

Have you mentioned this to the families of the fallen?

Disgusting.

Posted by: Tom at December 09, 2007 01:00 AM (1kwK7)

31 Warden,
I always wondered about the "Warden" moniker.

You're gay.

Why would you not admit it?

Are you ashamed?

Posted by: Tom at December 09, 2007 01:00 AM (1kwK7)

32 rickinstil, When you say: "This "tom" person is starting to sound an awful lot like Goldstein's buddy "deb"."

Are you referring to me or Warden, Cuffy, Entropy, or the other little guys trying to be...cool?

Posted by: Tom at December 09, 2007 01:09 AM (1kwK7)

33 Sigh.

Germany, Japan, South Korea, yatta yatta yatta.........

Posted by: Captain Obvious at December 09, 2007 01:23 AM (i1jdV)

34 Captain,
Sigh...dumb, dumb, dumb.

Posted by: Tom at December 09, 2007 01:49 AM (1kwK7)

35 Tom, I take it it's raining where you are, so you can't go out to the playground.

Posted by: Muskwa at December 09, 2007 11:50 AM (QjOMK)

36 Huh. I find this very strange. The flip must have been really REALLY recent, because Batiste just spoke at my school like, a week ago, against the war.

So yeah... my initial reaction: wtf?

Though apparently some old guy from the community here gave him a pretty good verbal arse-whipping during the discussion(I had class and couldn't actually see him speak myself).

Posted by: Revvy at December 09, 2007 01:48 PM (24JYo)

37 Uh yeah, just checked up on it - 4 days ago actually, the 5th of December.

So yeah. Color me confused.

Posted by: Revvy at December 09, 2007 01:54 PM (24JYo)

38 Tom = PLV? He has just the right combination of arrogance, lack of self-awareness, internet tough guy syndrome, and generally being a pussy. Then again, that describes any number of leftard trolls...

Posted by: hhuummbbeerrtt at December 09, 2007 02:43 PM (Do9Q1)

39 Sigh...dumb, dumb, dumb.

Our military presence in Germany, Japan, and South Korea after their respective wars was dumb? Wow, I didn't realize you were such a political and military expert. And here I am like a sheep thinking that it worked out great.

When you publish the correct strategy to keep the peace in a foreign war-torn country, I promise to study it, Five Star General Tom.

Posted by: Captain Obvious at December 09, 2007 07:54 PM (i1jdV)

40 Five Cock General Tom.

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