1 ^{I CONVERT! All hail Joseph Smith!}

Wait a tic... you wrote that without even including a South Park clip? You're dead to me Slublog.

2

I saw the speach and thought it was very good. I came away with a better perspective of Mitt, who I really didn't pay to much attention to prior to this speach.

He did well.

3 ^{I...um...never saw that episode of SP.}

4 slublog,
You should, very funny stuff and pretty accurate.

5

It's funny as hell slu....dum,dum,dum.

Take Mitts speach about his religion and compare it to any of the dems speaches concerning their religion. It might be comparing apples to oranges but just the difference in sincerity stands out to me.

6

I expect that John Edwards will soon stab both palms so that he can make a campaign appearance and display the stigmata.

-

 

7 Well, I won't know what to think until Tom stops by and blesses us all with his wise and considered opinion on the speech (and us, of course, for caring.)

Oh, and I'm sure whatever he will have to say will be witty, insightful and completely informed, as only a super-intelligent business-class-taking genius man like him can be.

8

I tried finding the Joseph Smith Song on Youtube, but all I could find was a bunch of .....mormons, singing some actual real Joseph Smith song.

He stuck his head into his hat....Dum dum dum dum dum.

9

www.allsp.com

Season 7, "All About Mormons"

10 ...never saw All About Mormons Slublog? omg...

Here are the Joseph Smith sequences http://youtube.com/watch?v=6fbzoNT7iKY

11 Slublog,

The point of the speech wasn't to defend the Mormon faith, but find common cause with those who value faith.

I would add that this speech also forces people to take a stand on the issue. The bigots will scream louder and the rational folks will accept what he said and vet him according to his record as a public servant. Thusly, the bigots, just like the WBC, will draw the spotlight and consequently, the disgust of decent people.

12 aka the Joseph Smith Song

I goddamn hate Macs... unless in copy/paste (luckily only have to deal with them at college).

13 Posted by: csdeven at December 06, 2007 02:32 PM (M5cP1)

Good point.

What happened to you over at HA?

14 You've got a lot of growing up to do. Suck my ****s!

Bwahahahahaha

15
I read the transcript. It's thoughtful and well-argued. Being a Catholic myself, I have no problem with anything he said. Given that the rank of presidents have included Unitarians (Taft), Quakers (Nixon), Catholics (Kennedy), Calvinists (Teddy Roosevelt), Deists or non-Christians of various stripes (Jefferson, Lincoln), genial cynics (FDR), and born-again Christians (Carter), in addition to the usual mainstream Protestants, I think that a Mormon is just one more kind of nut in the bowl.

I have to say, though, that if I were an atheist or agnostic, I would be disturbed that the speech's ignored my position. Granted, Romney is speaking about faith, as a believer, to other believers. But a word or two acknowledging that atheists can be good Americans too, would be helpful. I don't see this as a big deal, perhaps because it's not my ox being gored, but others probably will disagree.

16 What happened to you over at HA?

Things were just getting too narrow. I figured I'd take a break for a while and see what else is out here. I really like it here. Been over to Redstate, Hugh Hewitt at Townhall, and LGF. LGF is way too busy and most comments get lost. I was surprised that MKH's blog wasn't busier so I settled into HH's blog. Lots of Mitt bashers there and that keeps me pretty busy. ;-)  Redstate seems to be pretty quick on the ban button, though it really doesn't apply to me because I don't push mods to that point. I don't like it because, except for personal insults, I don't have much of a problem with any ideologies.

I lurk at HA and I'm sure that I'll find something there that I don't find anywhere else that I'll want to comment on, but for the time being, I'll let others deal with the insane Fred supporters. The normal Fred supporters are OK, but the groupies are kinda nuts.

Are there any other blogs out there that I should check into?

17 Slu, my post 14 wasn't directed at you. I was quoting the last line from the Mormon kid on the SP episode. What a riot!

18

The fact that Romney is a Mormon makes no difference to me. All religions are equally absurd. But did he address the racism issue? I don't think he did. If he wins the nomination, he will be forced to discuss it. The MSM may let Hillary get away with murder, but they won't let Romney skate through to next November without having to confront the LDS racism issue. He should have done it today.

Those who say that Romney (or anyone else) shouldn't have to justify his faith would be singing a different tune if the candidate was a Muslim or an atheist.

19 Slu, my post 14 wasn't directed at you. I was quoting the last line from the Mormon kid on the SP episode. What a riot!

That's what I figured.

Are there any other blogs out there that I should check into?

Of course not.  THIS IS THE ONLY BLOG IN THE 'SPHERE.

20 THIS IS THE ONLY BLOG IN THE 'SPHERE.

hahaha! That's what I though you'd say! That's OK because so far I'd say that AOS is up there with the best of em.

21

15, as a non-believer I  am more concerned with the leadership remaining secular and not making decisions based on prayer or "what I think god wants me to do". 

LDS can be kind of weird though and it will probably be a problem in the general election if Romney wins. Most of the weird stuff people hear about them is BS from evangelical christians and ex-mo's, but some of the weird stuff is what the church is based on. (Becoming gods, Native Americans came from Israel, civilizations that there is no evidence to show they existed etc.. and it also may involve aliens of some sort)

As far as I can tell Romney is a competant guy and that's going to be important in '08 because we have lots of problems to deal with. Things going against him are the LDS thing, people don't trust people with names like Mitt and Tag and he seems like a slick politician.  I don't know if it is a good thing or a bad thing but he looks like a President from a movie.

22

"Those who say that Romney (or anyone else) shouldn't have to justify his faith would be singing a different tune if the candidate was a Muslim or an atheist."

 

I'm an atheist and I would only make a muslim justify his faith. I do agree that every religion is weird.

23

Those who say that Romney (or anyone else) shouldn't have to justify his faith would be singing a different tune if the candidate was a Muslim or an atheist.

You forgot Scientologist, Satanist and Wiccan. 

Anyway, we are a Judeo-Christian nation.  It may be inconsistent or hypocritical but you are talking a different scenario when you go out of that religious sphere.

24

#15 I have to say, though, that if I were an atheist or agnostic, I would be disturbed that the speech's ignored my position.

Brown Line,

I would have to agree with this statement and Romney should have included a blurb about our non-believing brothers as well.

Decent speech but I doubt there will be much benefit.

cdsteven,

I'm glad you stopped going to HA for a while but Vanceone seems to have picked up where you left off. He always takes the bait right2bright offers. Personally I get tired of every Romney post turning into a theological discussion over at HA and you know Alaahpundit just rolling on the floor every time he posts on Romney.

I'm with Slublog, this is the only blog that matters.

Lug

25 I'm with Slublog, this is the only blog that matters.

Heh.  I LOVE THIS PLACE.

^{if only because they let me post here.}

26 Those who say that Romney (or anyone else) shouldn't have to justify his faith would be singing a different tune if the candidate was a Muslim or an atheist.

I think a Muslim should  have to "justify" or otherwise answer for a faith that basically calls for the subjugation or murder of unbelievers.  As far as I know, Mormons don't have that as a part of their creed. 

As for atheists, if they are not the smug, radical, evangelical "holier-than-thou" atheists of the Micheal Nudow/Bob Munck stripe, who want to remove every single hint of religion from the public square, I don't really care if they believe or not.  Just don't pretend to be a believer to pander for my vote, then live your life otherwise.

My problem is that so many Christians get so bent out of shape because Romney is "not the right kind of Christian"  to them.  This makes about as much sense as Emo Phillips' joke about God and religion. 

Well, that, and how some of the "true believers" seem to want to force their faith (or lack thereof) and morals (or lack thereof) on the rest of us.

If we could get beyond what is the so-called right and wrong version of faith regarding our politicians and just respect that that they have a faith to begin with (or not), we would probably all get along a hell of a lot better.

(okay, flame on.)

27 I'd say that AOS is up there with the best of em.

According to the Wizbang competition it's The Best Conservative Blog (so it must true). How good is it? So good that Ace doesn't even put up the banner. Why? Cause that would just be showin' off.

28 I also notice that while Mitt seems to be under the gun for his faith, very little was made by the media of Keith Ellison's religion, except to attack anyone who brought it up as a racist/bigot/ignorant hater.

29

I read the text of Romney's speech. I liked it and felt he hit the right notes. He went out of his way to note that Mormonism sees Jesus Christ as the Son of God and mankind's Savior, just as Catholics and Protestants and evangelicals do. To my mind, 'nuff said.

I do not take a candidate's religion into account when I vote, unless that candidate be muslim, in which case forget it. 9/11 told me all I need ever know about islam.

I could even vote for an atheist, as long as that person revered the Constitution and swore to preserve protect and defend same.

30 Michael Laurence:

You think Romney should have addressed the issue of racism? You mean like those upstanding Christians up to the late sixties who were riding the night in their hoods, hanging blacks, turning water hoses on them, barring school doors to prevent any from entering, keeping their churches segregated and lily white? That kind of racism?

My Mother marched in Montgomery, AL and knew Martin Luther King. She was a strong advocate for civil rights in public and in her personal life. She raised me to be the same. The LDS church has had outreach programs since their inception and never excluded blacks except from holding the priesthood and that was overturned 30 years ago. Catholics still exclude women from the priesthood, should we hold Catholic candidates responsible for that?

I thought Romney's speech was terrific. But then I'm a biased Presbyterian who made up my mind to vote for Mitt because in my mind he is the smartest and most qualified candidate running from either side. And, because my overall experience with Mormons as a group is extremely positive. I don't think I've ever met a faithful Mormon who was a good person and a great role model, especially for my own children when they were younger.

31 Oh and let me add, this is a great blog, one of the best in my opinion, and a good place to hang out, but you are all invited to visit Pal2Pal (http://www.pal2pal.com). We haven't been around very long, but we try to cover all the issues and would cover more if we got more comment feedback. Help us grow. All subjects and views are welcome, we only have one rule, keep it clean and civil.

Sorry for this shameless pandering, but you did ask.

32

"The LDS church has had outreach programs since their inception and never excluded blacks except from holding the priesthood and that was overturned 30 years ago. Catholics still exclude women from the priesthood, should we hold Catholic candidates responsible for that?"

LDS still exludes women from the priesthood also.  What counts as priesthood in LDS anyway? I was under the impression that the preisthood was for all adult males who wanted to enter the top levels of  heaven.

33 who was not a good person and good role model. Yikes.

34 <i>we only have one rule, keep it clean and civil.</i>

Well, I'm out.

35 Women in the LDS church are considered equal to men, each with very special roles that work to make the whole better and stronger. Young males receive the Aaronic priesthood when they receive what in other churches or in Judaism would be confirmation or Bar Mitzvah, age 12-13. As you progress through learning and teaching, males can be ordained as Elders or the Melchizdak (sp?) priesthood. However, the LDS is a lay ministery and different people will be "called" for different positions at different times and intervals. These include, but not limited to: teachers, counselors, bishops or higher. But these are more like management positions. You can be called to teach the 3 year old Sunday School class or to be a 1st Counselor in the Bishopric. The Mormon Ward in our neighborhood had a bishop who was an active duty Navy Admiral, the 1st Counselor was a veteran FBI agent. I, a non member was asked (not called) to teach their genealogy class. They still said a prayer over me that I would do a good job. The second most powerful position under the Bishopric, which included the Bishop and the 1st and 2nd Counselors, was the Relief Society President, always a woman. And if anyone thinks the women don't control, they are sadly misinformed. Women are very powerful within Mormon tradition.

36 Catholics still exclude women from the priesthood, should we hold Catholic candidates responsible for that?

Yes.  Also LDS, and any other religion where the priesthood is overwhelmingly male. 

One of Romney's main points seemed to be that the country should not have a "religious test" for public office.  That's very true, but there's nothing that says the parties can't have religious tests for nominees.  The Republicans certainly do, and it trumps everything else for them. 

37

I've met lots of Mormons. Nice, upstanding people, every one of them. They stand for a lot of what's good and right about America.

Where I always change the subject with them is when they want to give me their book or talk to me about their church. It's seriously kooky stuff. The only sensible people who accept it were brought up within it and never stopped to question it.

Of course, it would be exceedingly difficult to live within an LDS community if you dared to leave the church. No more business and social contacts; they'd shun you. Unless you were self-sufficient and willing to be looked down on every day by the people you've known all your life, you'd have to leave.

There are lots of former Mormons (Google them) living away from Mormon communities. But very few outsiders convert to the faith as adults, despite all the missionary activity which, as I alluded above, does net some gullible types through sheer volume.

 

My question to Romney would be, Do you really believe you'll get your own planet when you die?

His answer would tell me a lot about his willingness to believe something ridiculous just because his parents, friends, and authority figures told him so.

Or it would expose him as someone willing to say anything just to be popular.

38 The Republicans certainly do, and it trumps everything else for them.

Much like the abortion test that all good Democrats must pass, right? Either follow the party line or get the fuck out, right Bob?

Besides, I'm a a Republican and I don't have a religious test for my nominees, other than the fact that I don't like people who lie to me and tell me they are religious, when they are simply pandering.

So, wrong again, Bob.  There is quite a large segment of the Republican party that doesn't consider religion to be all that important in the final analysis.  But thanks for attempting to speak for all Republicans. 

39 Dammit!  My bad.  That's what I get for trying to fool the omnipotent and truly brilliant Bob Munck^tm.

40 Ah Wisebud, we aren't prudes.

41 Do you really believe you'll get your own planet when you die?

His answer would be "no," as he walked away laughing at such silliness.

42 Ah Wisebud, we aren't prudes.

43 Michael Rittenhouse: There are 13 million Mormons and the LDS church is growing at about 1 million new members every three years. There are lots of people who join and find comfort there. I am a non-Mormon, but I sent both my son and daughter to the local Ward from about age 8 through their high school years because it had the very best youth programs and community outreach programs of any church in our area and because all my Mormon neighbors were people I admired. I have never been sorry and as far as I know, neither are my very adult children now.

44 Long time reader, first time commentor (commentator?).  People at AOS seem generally more level-headed and moderate than at HA or Townhall.com.  Every Romney post at HA or TH ends up getting filled with tired anti-mormon jabs and squabbling over who misinterpreted whose comment.  Pats on the back to all you morons here!

45 Much like the abortion test that all good Democrats must pass, right? ...

So, wrong again, Bob.  There is quite a large segment of the Republican party that doesn't consider religion to be all that important in the final analysis.

Interesting juxtaposition.  Obviously it works for both cases, and there are a great many Democrats who are against abortion to a greater or lesser degree.

However, religion is the ultimate litmus test for Republican candidates.  How many of this "large segment" would automatically disqualify a Muslim candidate for President, knowing nothing else about him?  How about a Sikh?  A Hindu?  An atheist?  It doesn't matter what some percentage of the rank and file of the GOP thinks; their choices for candidates are tightly controlled by the big business/big religion white males who run it.

Coming out for easily-available abortion on demand wouldn't do much for a Republican would-be candidate, either.  Or being gay.  Or favoring legalization of drugs. Or...

46 their choices for candidates are tightly controlled by the big business/big religion white males who run it.

Yeah, it's just the Republicans who are controlled by rich white men.

You really need grow up, bobbie.

47 Sure, we have too many rich white men in positions of power in the party, and nowhere enough people who are not-rich, not-white, or not-male, but we're working on it.  Last year, a female Speaker of the House; next year, a female or black President.  Which of the GOP candidates aren't rich, white, male?

And thinking that George Soros controls the Democratic Party, that's beyond absurdity.  If you actually believe that, you simply can't be taken seriously.

I notice you didn't answer any of my points.

48

"Which of the GOP candidates aren't rich, white, male?"

Michael Steele.  You may recall how he was treated by the Democrats.

49 Michael Steele.  You may recall how he was treated by the Democrats.

I wasn't aware that Steele was ever a candidate for the presidency.  Obviously the GOP has candidates for lesser offices that aren't rich, white, male.  Steele was treated the way he was because he was a party-line Republican.  Including their belief in the power of lying: the Oreo incident.

50 I notice you didn't answer any of my points.

Because none of your points are worth answering.  You want to define us all with the same stereotype.  I, as a Republican (and as someone who knows quite a lot of people like me), do not hold the racist, homophobic views that you ascribe to us, as much. Therefore, your idiotic definition of what a "real Republican" is is ignorant, meaningless and, quite frankly, not worthy of discussion.

Now you say, after totally misunderstanding or, more likely, ignoring my point,  "You're afraid to discuss this with me and, therefore declare that Victory belongs to Bob Munck!" and then go away, okay?

51 The Democrat party needs to realize that Pelosi, Boxer, Clinton and the like are not representative of the great women of the world.  These women are shrews, connivers and power-hungry men-haters that simply seek power over others.  That is not  what the average American woman wants to be viewed as.

" next year, a female or black President.  Which of the GOP candidates aren't rich, white, male??"

What a line of bullcrap!  Obama has had to fight more democrats to be accepted as a black man in politics than Republicans.  Remember - he isn't "black" enough for Sharpton and Jackson, not to mention the thousands of "religious" leaders from the south.  Hillary isn't being pushed as a candidate because she's a woman, but because she is Mrs. Bill Clinton.  Stop pretending its anything else. 

52 do not hold the racist, homophobic views that you ascribe to us, as much..as you would like to think.

Yeah, pretty funny typo there, bobbie.  Have at it.

53 The Democrat party needs to realize that Pelosi, Boxer, Clinton and the like are not representative of the great women of the world.

I do have to agree with you there, but they are pretty representative of women who can rise to prominence in the current situation.  Look at women who have made it to the top in other countries: Margaret Thatcher, Golda Meir, Angela Merkel, Indira Ghandi, etc;  Pelosi, Boxer, and Clinton would fit right in with that crowd.   Actually, I'm not sure what you mean by being "representative of the great women of the world." Who is "representative?"  The great (and lesser) women of the world are all individuals, with their own particular characteristics and idiosyncrasies. Just like men.

Obama has had to fight more democrats to be accepted as a black man in politics than Republicans.

I don't understand what you mean there, either. Do you think that Obama will get more votes from Republicans than Democrats?  Or that more Democrats than Republicans will vote against him solely because he's black?  Both suppositions are wildly wrong.

54 >If you actually believe that, you simply can't be taken seriously.

Posted by: Bob Munck at December 06, 2007 06:15 PM (n0BzT)

Smug self-righteousness- You've got it nailed, skippy!

 

55 self-righteousness

I don't think that term means what you think it means.  Especially judging from the contents of your own blog.  I really liked the one about LEDs.

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