1
If leftys really had any honor they would commit sepuku.

2

The poor poor Left.  They had all those essays on the lessons to be learned from our failure in Iraq ready to go. 

Crap, sez they.

3 I want to see Chris Matthew's bulbous head explode. Now that would be entertaining.

4 Things must be getting incredibly better in Iraq.  In his column this morning, Thomas Friedman admitted that there is actually a smidgen of hope in Iraq.

Bu, of course, it could all still come crashing down unless they do as he suggests, like now have a "surge" in diplomacy (after left-handedly admitting that the military surge has shown a little progress.)  But he still needs to find something to complain about, so his take today is that, even though a lot of positive things are happening, they are not passing laws to force them to happen, they are just happening organically.  (Because, as we all know, only laws can fix things and make people behave.)

He does make one rather telling admission, though.  "My Iraq crystal ball stopped working a long time ago."  Would that be the crystal ball that you have depended on for the background for your columns, as opposed to actual reality, Tom?

5 I pretty much hope that the war is won before Bush leaves, because I have already wrote his speach for him.

Congratuation

You have fought a great war.
You have prooved the justice of our culture.
Go now and rest our heroes!

6 That's why you see them harping contantly on the cost now.  "It'll cost 600 BILLION to care for our diabled vets over the next 50 years!" "The war is costing every person in America $22,000!!"  They've got to make this fail somehow dammit! 

7 "desperate mud-flinging twit" says it all. Beautifully written!.

8 How do you pronounce 'reprehensible'?

9 The Elite MSM are invested in our defeat. Sould we win an unequivocal victory, I would hope that window jumping will be the new vogue for the MSM. Perhaps Pinch will lead the way.

10 wiserbud: "...Thomas Friedman admitted that there is actually a smidgen of hope in Iraq."

Piped through a Friedman-to-rational-English Babelfish, that cipher means "Holy crap! It's practically Utopia there now. I cannot believe how freakin' wrong I've been and how hard I'll need to work to walk back my years of BS to save face. Let's hope no one notices either the success, remembers the lamentations from those who claimed it was unattainable, or notes the drumbeat we've been pounding to discourage the nation."

The abbreviated version is "I'm in a world of hurt."

11

However it all comes out, the price we've paid is too high.

What's this 'we', pale face?

~

12

It's late in the fourth quarter, the other team is ahead by two touchdowns, and the camera pans accross your sideline catching the grim, angry and sad faces there.  You had a big lead at half-time. What the frick happened?  Was it the fumble, the penalty?

The Left is like a particular type of team that endures a tough loss.  What kind of team?  The kind that bitches about injuries and bad calls and bad luck and the wind and the sun and whatever else they can think of - never the fact that they were outplayed and beaten fair and square.

No-class losers.

 

13

Applebaum even concedes that she and her fellow MSMers have ben inundated with complaints that they are spiking the good news. That's one of the first concessions of that fact I have seen.

So, what does she have to do? She doesn't concede the MSM was working for the enemy. No, she just comes up with a distraction type talking point about "the cost" in order to deflect criticism.

Goven Friedman's column today as well, I wonder if at the last big cocktail party, a bunch of them were working out a unified line of argument to pursue for their columns.

 

14 Cookie What'shernameonABC...well, if we had only used the surge at the beginning of the war, we could have saved countless lives, etc.

That's General Cookie What'shernameonABC to you partner. Military genius.

15 As an addendum to my earlier post, I believe these columns were written in a manner to concede to the victory crowd that, yes, things are going better. But the "BIG BUT" they have used was their "pivot", to use a political term, to appease the MediaMatters crowd and keep from getting booted from teh DC Social Circle.

16 "The outcome hasn't even happened yet"

You stupid cow. It's been 5 years, and still: Victory! A million dead Iraqis, 2 million displaced and homeless, the country fractured buy civil war, and you screech like a hyena in heat: Beachhead!

You'll be saying the same stupid shit 5 years from now.

You are a fucking loser. Too bad you took the rest of us on your drunken hayride.

17 However it all comes out, the price we've paid is too high.

And we spend 69 Billion a month on HHS entitlements and programs. Funny how they never bemoan the cost of that, isn't it?

18 Hamid almost seems personally invested in a loss.

19 A million dead Iraqis

Hilarious.

You have no credible source for such a claim yet you believe it to be true. What does that make you?

the country fractured buy civil war

Parody.

20 Like I said, you malicious assholes will be saying the same dumbass shit 5 years from now.

21 You stupid cow.

Hi, ergastularius. Whatcha been up to, buddy?

22 Like I said, you malicious assholes will be saying the same dumbass shit 5 years from now.

What is most comical about this is that you leftists have been saying the same (false) things for the last 5 years.

In other words, you're projecting. And too stupid to see it.

23 It's unbelievable the stupidity here. After 5 years of non-stop cowboy horror show, trillions wasted in democracy-boy's blackhole of murder, you fucking frat boys and the bitch who empties your puke buckets are still howling victory.

It's the Mexicans. They're destroying our country. Eyes on the prize, fuckheads.

24 I'm not sure anyone is disgruntled about things going well in Iraq.  I think people are still unsure about why went in.  So, now it was to create a beachhead of sanity in the Middle East?  What happened to the whole WMD racket.  It's the lying and incompetence of handling this war that's the bigger issue.  Iraq was never and existential threat to the US, but we had a social experiment we wanted to conduct so we just invaded a country which led the to death of thousands of innocent civilians.  We should have kept focus on Afghanistan.

Finally, it wasn't like the post conquest peace keeping effort was going to be tough...just look at the British in Afghanistan, the Turks in Arabia, the French in Algeria, or the Indians in Kashmir.  It was text book situation that the Bush administration failed.  Let's talk about the real story here that the MSM isn't covering...the improvements have been mostly driven by an alliance with Sunni militia's that the Bush administration in all their wisdom shunned for nearly 4 years.  General P (to his credit) shelved this foolish policy.  The real story is that we could have had this progress 4 years ago with more soldiers and better leadership...leadership that had actually seen a bit of the world before taking the helm of the largest and most powerful democracy in the world.

(posted at skewz.com)

25 And here I coulda' sworn it was one billion dead Iraqis...

26 We have killed jihadists from Yemen, Somalia, Saudi Arabia, Syria and of course, Iran during our little adventure in Iraq.  If they keep coming, we will keep killing them. 

This is why the left is so upset.  They don't give a shit about Iraqi civilians, which is why it is so easy for them to lie and call a pre-invasion Iraq "stable".

27 Oh boy, we've got a live one.  Now, don't you guys go scare him off too quick. I've got an afternoon to occupy.

28 It's always instructive to look at current wars in the context of previous ones, especially in terms of domestic social and media impact.

I'm currently re-reading "The Civil War: A Narrative" by Shelby Foote (all three massive volumes), and I'm struck by how much the media of the time resembles today's MSM. Back then the newspapers -- both north and south -- were alarmist, ignorant of military doctrine, prone to euphoric highs in the wake of victory and sloughs of despond in the wake of defeats, and not above printing rumor as fact if it would boost circulation. The invective directed against Lincoln and Jeff Davis is truly bilious; it makes some of the stuff directed at Bush today seem positively tame.

This was all incredibly harmful in terms of how the war was fought; for example, hysterical media exacerbated the New York Draft Riots and probably made the riot much worse than it might have been otherwise. Military commanders also used enemy newspapers as a gauge to public opinion, and were thereby misguided as to the relative mindsets of their political enemies (however much the Northern newspaper editors -- in particular the Know Nothings and later the Copperheads -- might have wanted peace with the South at any cost, Lincoln had no intention of quitting.)

The *true* history of the Civil War was written first by the men who lived it: the commanders, the soldiers, the politicians. Later, professional historians picked up the thread and tried to put the war in a broader context. But the *final* history of the Civil War is not yet written because it is woven into the fabric of the country; there are always new facets, new insights. Even a century and a half later, we are still experiencing side-effects of that war.

The same is true of every way, including this one. It will be many years before we know for sure whether the war was "worth it", for only history will show if our sacrifice of blood and treasure was in vain.

For now, all we can do is look at our own motives. Did we act honestly? Were our intentions honorable? Did we act in good faith with the American ideals? I suppose these are questions upon which men of good will may disagree, but personally I think we can answer "yes" to all of them, and thus live with a clear conscience...come what may.

29 <em>I'm not sure anyone is disgruntled about things going well in Iraq.  I think people are still unsure about why went in. </em>

Well, people <em>are stupid</em> so there is little you can do to fix that.  And, that first sentence is a hoot.

30 graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2007/11/22/world/22fighters.PROMOGRAPHIC.jpg

Hmmm...Wow. "We've killed" a few hundred jihadists while turning the region into  a jihadist recruitment center.

Nifty.

Can't "we" just kill Mexicans? Cxheaper. The real enemy. The external enemy. Eyes on the ball, bitches.

31

Arguing with a wall is better than arguing with a liberal because the wall doesn't contradict itself.

wiserbud, famed dog-ball-licker Bob Munck is flailing around on the athiest thread if you want to give him another wedgie.

32 Hamid, we can't kill Mexicans! Who's gonna do my lawn?

33 trillions wasted

Hilarious. Another "fact" you believe that is not true.

Again, what does that make you?

34 . "We've killed" a few hundred jihadists

Where do you get that figure?

Another "fact" you believe that is not true.

35 It's a silly and superficial article.  Her arguments for why Iraq has hurt our foreign relations and damaged our efforts vis-a-vis Iran are of the same quality and if not to the same high degree, then almost so, as it was in the runup to the war in Iraq.  And where was the 'Iraq" that caused that then? 

I'd think the entire article was satire it didn't read as though she seriously thought all this.  As such, I'm surprised at Applebaum's naivete.

36 Wow. "We've killed" a few hundred jihadists while turning the region into  a jihadist recruitment center.

...this complaint from the same fellow who mocked the "flypaper" strategy.

37

Is Hamid Majid Mousa a fun new troll?  Ooooo....me likey.

Hey Hamid, is freedom better than living under a despot?

If yes, might those that give you freedom be your ally?

If yes, might it not be a positive to have allies in that part of the world?

If yes, might the cost be worth it?

Your turn. GO!!!

38 Hamid is arguing that the coalition has killed 1 million civilians and a few "hundred" jihadists.

The only reason a single American has died over there is we are trying to fight the good fight.

If we wanted Hamid's numbers, we could always carpet bomb.

39 Keep your eyes off my balls.

40 Is Hamid Majid Mousa a fun new troll?

Naw, as lauraw pointed out above, it's just erg.

41 What Applebaum and others don't get is that how we're viewed by "others" around the world is up to them. It's not up to us.

To complain that the campaign "made" them hate us is silly. They CHOSE to hate us for it. They chose to decide that America was worse (worse!) than Nazi Germany.

Today, China causes more harm to human life and natural resources around the world. Iraq Campaign or no Iraq Campaign. But where, dear Anne, are the people who hate China? Where is the protesting? Where is the WORST THAN MAO poster?

42

However it all comes out, the price we've paid is too high.

You can only make that claim if you know the ultimate outcome AND you know what would have been the outcome if we had not paid the price.

For example, lets say the price ends up being 5,000 American lives and 1 trillion dollars.  If the ultimate outcome is a sh!t hole theocracy in Iraq AND the ultimate outcome if we had not gone in was the Iraqi people eventually overthrew Sadam and installed... a government that turned the place into... a sh!it hole theocracy, then I would agree, the price was too high.

On the other hand, if the ultimate outcome turns out to be a stable democratic Iraq that has influence over the region and keeps Iran from doing anything stupid AND the outcome if we had not gone in was a nuclear Iraq, a nuclear Iran and a large muslim only parking lot in the area currently known as Israel, then no, the price was not too high.

43 "Cookie What'shernameonABC...well, if we had only used the surge at the beginning of the war, we could have saved countless lives"

I like that, akin to "If we only dropped two A-Bombs on Japan at the start of the war we could have ended it a lot sooner, saving countless lives" head bowed in remorse.

44

All we killed is a lousy million Iraqis?!

What the hell have my taxes been paying for?

We should have at least 10 million splats by now.

I blame Bush.

45 Erg, why won't you stay banned, fuckhead? What is it about us that arouses you?

46 Caught a few flies, tortured a bunch who were most likely shoe salesmen, and then managed to fashion the country into the kind of abattoir bush likes to call "democracy."

Yes, yes. Something must have been done about saddam. But whatever matchbook cover upon which was scrawled the bush "doctrine" could never achieve anything but incompetent ruin. And all at the expense of defeating our enemies in Afghanistan. We're losing there too, geoff.


But, prattle on little brothers. Victory!

Anyhow. It's all about the mexicans. Don't fucking forget.

47 "Hamid Majid Mousa"?

We all know that's not his given name. More  like  Seth Wilson or something like that, with a rich Daddy he's ashmed to claim while while he listens to 50 Cent.

48

Ahem.  I was the one who called you prescient, lauraw.

 

That was me.

 

Monty!  Greets my friend.  Looky who got erg's panties in a wad, Miss Prescient.

49

ten to the sixth dead

Hamid Majid Mousa say

phantoms dance in mind

50 Do you remember what thread or what day that was from, Dave? I want to see exactly what I said. Didn't really expect this to happen so soon, I don't think.

51 And all at the expense of defeating our enemies in Afghanistan. We're losing there too, geoff.

Naw. We're losing in Pakistan, but then, we only have 50 guys there. Nice to see that AQ is following the same exact losing strategy in Afghanistan that they used in Iraq: indiscriminate bombing of civilians. I don't think the Afghani Awakening will take as long to manifest as did the Anbar version.

52 The real story is that we could have had this progress 4 years ago with more soldiers and better leadership...leadership that had actually seen a bit of the world before taking the helm of the largest and most powerful democracy in the world.

Well, ya know, it also might have helped if the loyal opposition focused themselves a little more on the "loyal" part and a little less on the "opposition" part.

Has Bush made mistakes? Yes But did we need to go into Iraq? Yes. Unless you think the worldly-wise and incredibly competent members of the previous administration were lying to us?

"One way or the other, we are determined to deny Iraq the capacity to develop weapons of mass destruction and the missiles to deliver them. That is our bottom line."
- President Clinton, Feb. 4, 1998 | Source

"If Saddam rejects peace and we have to use force, our purpose is clear. We want to seriously diminish the threat posed by Iraq's weapons of mass destruction program."
- President Bill Clinton, Feb. 17, 1998 | Source

"We must stop Saddam from ever again jeopardizing the stability and security of his neighbors with weapons of mass destruction."
- Madeline Albright, Feb 1, 1998 | Source

"He will use those weapons of mass destruction again, as he has ten times since 1983."
- Sandy Berger, Clinton National Security Adviser, Feb, 18, 1998 | Source

I guess these people also fell for Bush's lies, huh?

"In the four years since the inspectors left, intelligence reports show that Saddam Hussein has worked to rebuild his chemical and biological weapons stock, his missile delivery capability, and his nuclear program. He has also given aid, comfort, and sanctuary to terrorists, including al Qaeda members ... It is clear, however, that if left unchecked, Saddam Hussein will continue to increase his capacity to wage biological and chemical warfare, and will keep trying to develop nuclear weapons."
- Sen. Hillary Clinton (D, NY), Oct 10, 2002 | Source

"We begin with the common belief that Saddam Hussein is a tyrant and a threat to the peace and stability of the region. He has ignored the mandate of the United Nations and is building weapons of mass destruction and th! e means of delivering them."
- Sen. Carl Levin (D, MI), Sept. 19, 2002 | Source

"We know that he has stored secret supplies of biological and chemical weapons throughout his country."
- Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002 | Source

"Iraq's search for weapons of mass destruction has proven impossible to deter and we should assume that it will continue for as long as Saddam is in power."
- Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002 | Source

"We have known for many years that Saddam Hussein is seeking and developing weapons of mass destruction."
- Sen. Ted Kennedy (D, MA), Sept. 27, 2002 | Source

Hmmmm, one would think that you would be more upset that all of these well-traveled, super-intelligent people were so easily fooled by the so-called "lies" of that "idiot" Bush, huh? Oh, well, I guess having that magical "D" behind your name makes you immune from any and all criticism by the likes of Viper and ergisanidiotcockgobbler.

53 The Iraq Battle (of the great War Against Islamofascists) reminds me of the Little Red Hen story. The Left keeps saying not I while the Right does the heavy lifting. Now the "bread" is ready to leave the oven and the Left wants to help eat it. However, they are still complaining about how long it took to make the bread. Amazing!

54 JavaJoe:

Hindsight is always 20-20, as they say. Armchair generals (including me) can always look back on a battle or campaign and airily state that this or that was a disaster, a fat-headed mistake, or ill-timed disaster...and sometimes we're right. But this is in hindsight. What civilians tend not to sufficiently understand is that the so-called "fog of war" is a very real thing -- if you are a commander, things are rarely so clear-cut. Particularly when the battle is yet to be fought.

Drawing another example from the Civil War: did you know that the battle of Gettysburg was fought over shoes? The battlefield was purely accidental: the invading Southern army had heard that a warehouse of shoes existing in Gettysburg, and was trying to re-outfit their troops for the long march ahead; the Union Army uncovered their movements and converged on them. The largest land-battle ever fought in the Western Hemisphere was fought in this place and this time largely due to circumstance.

I imagine a leftist of today crying, "How could the government cause the deaths of so many over shoes? It's an abomination!" And so it is, as all war is abomination. And yet is false to say Gettysburg was fought over shoes. Gettysburg was fought for the same reason other battles in that war were fought, and the men there died in such great numbers because both sides believed in what they were fighting for.

More men were lost in the three days of Gettysburg -- by far -- than have been lost in the entire four years of our war in Iraq, but I would consider it profane to suggest that this sacrifice was "wasted" or in vain. The blood was spilled, then and now, to serve the country.

We may argue whether some other course might have led to some other outcome, but it is folly to suggest that some other course inevitably would have led to less bloodshed. The alternative history of missed chances is forever lost to us. All we can do is the best we can with what we have, and look to our own conscience as the light in the darkness.

55 But whatever matchbook cover upon which was scrawled the bush "doctrine" could never achieve anything but incompetent ruin.

spittle is flying as you type this...

56 You need the dialectical tension, lauraw. I'm fascinated by the steepening extremism of this blog. Last night I spent several hours waxing my genitals and thinking of all of you. I imagined you dressed in Nazi-themed leotards, rolling down a hill toward a dry lake bed. This is the waking-dream that arouses me but I dare not talk to my therapist about it. I don't know how far you'll keep tumbling down, but the ideological rabbithole is infested w/ mexicans and the Other, dujure. You're such an apocalyptic pessimist.

I'd say my fascination and horror is akin to Freud's as he watched his beloved Vienna turn on the great city's jews. Man is a bad animal, lauraw. You the Man, lauraw. I need somebody to be the man, lauraw. If you know what I mean.

57 Rosetta, Yeah, I'm watching the munckey flail around like a dying trout who doesn't know when he's done.  I'll leave him to you.

I like his incredible child-like wonder at the possibility of creating a whole new universe simply by choosing which Laotian boy to bang, but thinks that the human eye is "eh, sorta cool, I guess."  But he's not a man of faith, that's for sure.

58 Dave in Texas: Werd, homie! (Or perhaps, "Hail, fellow, and well met!")

59 What's with the Mexican fetish here? 

60 "I don't think the Afghani Awakening will take as long to manifest as did the Anbar version."

Same stupid shit 5 years from now, geoff. No doubt.

Hey, just as an aside, any of you guys want to see pictures of me fucking a pumpkin?

61 This silly troll is boring.

(and I think, perhaps, mentally unstable.)

62 Didn't take long for the grouper to admit he thinks Al Queda is oppressed.

You know the the Jews in Europe.

63

lauraw, I pointed it out here.  I'll look for the post

 

Montague!  Thou art well met.

64 like*

65 Same stupid shit 5 years from now, geoff. No doubt.

Yeah, whatever.

...and "Hi," Monty!

66 I am definitely putting 'new and more interesting trolls' on my Christmas wish list.

You'd think the Best Conservative Blog would attract a commensurate level of lefty idiot and yet all we get is erg.  Come to think of it, maybe erg is the best the left has to offer.

How was Olympia Washington erg?  Or don't you have the balls to go put your ass on the line protesting the war machine? Are you a chicken dove?

67 I never read your blog entries, drew. I don't understand them.

68 "We may argue whether some other course might have led to some other outcome, but it is folly to suggest that some other course inevitably would have led to less bloodshed. The alternative history of missed chances is forever lost to us."

Monty's the man.

Guys, let me know when it's time for Erg's favorite show, 'Alternative Uses For Produce.'

69

HAMID!!

Keep your eyes on my ball!

70 Guys, let me know when it's time for Erg's favorite show, 'Alternative Uses For Produce.'

Awww, laura - I've got proposals to write today. You know I can't get any work done when you start doing that.

71

NO!!  ERG!!

Keep your eye on my ball!

72 You're a really shitty writer.

Savor the rich deep taste of irony here, folks. It doesn't get any more delicious than this.

73 Snicker. Somone's doing the funny.

74 Ooops. Sorry Monty. I'll stop.

75

wiserbud,

Ever since you made the following joke...

Why does a dog lick its balls?

Because Bob Munck has to work sometimes?

...I have a hard time hating on Bob Munck.

That is still the funniest thing you've ever said.  Ever since then you've pretty much been phoning it in.

76 Ooops. Sorry Monty. I'll stop.

No, you must continue. For only your flaying of erg (or Hamid, or Gaylord Throatwobbler Gobulcoque, or whatever he's calling himself now) can give me the vicarious thrill I need to get through the day.

77 No, it's funny lauraw. Hamid/erg is a really shitty troll.  They should have a troll school.

78
Is erg/hamid the guy who likes to pound his poor dog on the beach?

79 Oh well - proposals can wait. They're only due on Tuesday.

80 Is erg/hamid the guy who likes to pound his poor dog on the beach?

You're thinking of Mike, the idiot who used to cut-and-paste long articles to every thread. Erg believes in pure Marxism, and that the economic elite of both parties are colluding against the interests of the lower and middle classes.

81

I think it's called Columbia

 

82 Erg believes in pure Marxism

Oh, so he's retarded. Jeez, now I feel bad for bagging on him. It's like kicking a crippled guy.

83 Hey Laura,

Does erg hate you because you rebuffed his sexual advances at some point?

I am sure they were clumsy because practicing with your mom, sister and puppy only gets you so far.

84 Hamid you are obviously filled with rage, and I sort of pity you.  This rage blinds you.

1 million Iraqis dead?

Only "hundreds" of jihadists killed?

I mean....if you believe these things, what else would you believe?  Anything that gets you filled with more rage?  You are addicted to it.  Calm yourself.  Develop some serenity.

85 I think we should get back to that drunken hayride mentioned in #16.

That didn't sound half-bad.

86

Monty - Excellent post. 

 

Viper -

"I think people are still unsure about why went in.  So, now it was to create a beachhead of sanity in the Middle East?  What happened to the whole WMD racket.  It's the lying and incompetence of handling this war that's the bigger issue.  Iraq was never and existential threat to the US,...."

I believe that the invasion of Iraq was directly related to 9-11, but not in the sense that Saddam was believed to be directly responsible and therefore had to be punished, but in that 9-11 forced America to examine the true state of the world and deal with it. After the fall of the Soviets, we had been living in a peace garden with - we wanted to believe - no real enemies worth noting.

Before the fall of the twin towers, we viewed the terrorists as mosquitos to be swatted but we chose to ignore the swamp that breed them. 9-11 made our leaders realize that  despots of the middle east and the poverty that allowed radical islam to flourish must be dealt with.  

The only available - and frankly the best - beachhead for such an assault was Iraq. Afghanistan is too remote and being there does nothing to protect our oil interests (Yes, Virginia, time to grow up; oil IS important).

Iran has been our enemy for twenty-five years now, and has a desire to control all of the middle east using radical Islam as a tool.

The whole bit about weapons of mass destruction was a sham from the start (although it was believed to be true, it was still a pretext) because the proles would never agree to go in and  start removing the problems in the middle east without a pretext for war. Sometimes it's necessary to lie to the children to get them to the Dentist's office.

Bush will be remembered well in the history books two hundred years from now when the petty distractions and chaff of the moment have settled out and a clear view of what he (is doing now) did  will be visible.

Through the process of the Iraq war, and subsequent civil wars, revolutions, and other such turmoils, the second to last area of the planet where savagery and dictatorship flourishes will be brought into the modern era and made members of the world society.  It is time, and the battle must be fought. There is no choice but to free the peoples of the middle east, no matter how much we'd like to remain snug in our beds.

The other area of the planet where barbarians and dictators reign unopposed is Africa. Africa, I'm afraid will have to wait for the next century to get the attention it needs to modernize it. 

 

 

87 Monty,

Good to see you back. I hope everything is working out well for you.

Great point about Gettysburg and history in general. The thing is very few on the left have any use for history. Everyday is a new day and the past is simply irrelevant, unless of course it can be used as a club to beat others with. 

The left can't acknowledge history because it would but the lie to everything they  are selling. 

88 I'm with you, Geoff, that did sound pretty good.

Just make sure there's plenty of hard cider and NO PUMPKINS in the wagon.

89 The left can't acknowledge history because it would but put the lie to everything they  are selling. 

90
So, it's all about marxism and this guy hamid not being able to get laid? Maybe, lauraw should fall on her sword, so to speak?  Come on, lauraw, take one for the team!

91 Just make sure there's plenty of hard cider and NO PUMPKINS in the wagon.

...and then we can while away the hours kvetching about the broken "New Comments" sidebar.

92

I think you all skert him away.

Pity that.  He's so, what's the word I'm looking for, eager?

Eager.

93 Maybe, lauraw should fall on her sword,

Wouldn't that be more like falling on his "sword"? Of course, it's most likely a _tiny, _tiny, flaccid sword.

94
Drew:  I'm too skeered of lauraw to be that graphic.

95 He's so, what's the word I'm looking for, eager?

No matter what name he uses, he's so ergie.

96 The left can't acknowledge history because it would put the lie to everything they are selling.

I've always found it interesting to see what the motives and goals of a war are after the fact as opposed to early on. For example, if you pose the question "Why did America fight in World War II?" to an average person, you'd probably get something along the lines of "to defeat Hitler" or "to topple world fascism". This would have come as a shock to Americans of late 1941, however, who were fighting because we were attacked by the Empire of Japan. At the time, it seemed fairly uncomplicated. Which is why it came as a rather nasty shock when our first major land engagements were in Africa against the French? What the hell? (Hitler actually doomed himself by unilaterally declaring war on America; had he refrained, it's quite likely that FDR wouldn't have been able to convince Congress to go to war against him...which in turn probably would have led to the defeat of Britain and the USSR at the hands of the Wehrmacht.). Warfare rarely matches the neat lines drawn on maps by historians years later.

97

The lefties live in an abyss of historical ignorance and ineptitude

After WWI and WWII, there were many in the US, including vets, who believed it wasnt "worth the price of blood and treasure"

Of course now, the lefties use WWII as the example of the war that America "universally" agreed was a noble and just cause, as contrasted to the ever vilified "quagmire" and "imperial project" of Iraq. This is simply not the case.

There were many who didnt understand why defeating nazism, facism and Japanese imperialism was so vital and necessary.

The leftist liars/propagandists of today would have us believe that everyone was in agreement and we had some mythical consensus when 500,000 of our finest were dying in the fields of Europe and in the seas of the pacific.

Thats what liars do. They re-write history.

Fuck you Anne. Your a fucking Stalinist to the bone. Either that or your an idiot. Neither is particularly flattering to your leftist agenda

98 There were many who didnt understand why defeating nazism, facism and Japanese imperialism was so vital and necessary.

It goes deeper than that, as illustrated by that stupid shirt/slogan of lefties: "War never solves anything."  To say they are ignorant of history is to vastly understate the case.

99 These jerks don't seem to realize the message they are broadcasting worldwide:

"Democracy is a nice idea and all that, but we don't consider it worthwhile to fight for. It's better to make peace with dictators."

100 qrstuv, I think they understand that message.  I think they are banking on it.

101

tumescent?

 

something.  I'll keep trying.

102

Well said, Lokki.

But, I think Africa will not wait for the next century.

103 fahs ibair,

Some of them, maybe. But why would preferring dictators make these assholes so angry? That's the part I kinda don't get. Our pal Hamid here is absolutely frothing with rage. Assuming he's not insane (a stretch), I doubt it's because he actually misses Saddam Hussein, the Baath party, the rape rooms, the torture chambers, the gassing of villages, and all the rest of it.

I think the Left is so deeply invested in their idea of themselves as the good guys, and their idea of the opposition as the bad guys, that the cognitive dissonance here is frying their brains.

104 The Left is like a particular type of team that endures a tough loss.  What kind of team?  The kind that bitches about injuries and bad calls and bad luck and the wind and the sun and whatever else they can think of - never the fact that they were outplayed and beaten fair and square.

The Bengals?

In all seriousness though, I'm wondering why our trolls are all the same.  They're all so vapid anymore.

105

Without the helicopters on the embassy roof, their narrative falls apart. No helicopters, no humilation. No humilation, no redemption from our European betters.

Unpunished hubris really pisses our leftist friends off.

BTW - 1 million Iraqis dead? I think he means over 1 million served.

106 I doubt it's because he actually misses Saddam Hussein, the Baath party, the rape rooms, the torture chambers, the gassing of villages, and all the rest of it.

The left simply hates America more than they love anything else. They are all for doing good, as long as there's no direct or collateral benefit to US security. 

Bomb the Serbs? Sure.

Invade Hatti to restore Aristide ? They're in.

Do something in Darfur? Okay.

Topple Saddam? No Blood for Oil!!11!!!

Stop Iran from getting bomb? Hell no!

Oh and the other criterion is that it has to be painless because it's not like anything good in the world is actually worth fighting over.  So much for this idea:

"...we shall pay any price, bear any burden, meet any hardship, support any friend, oppose any foe, in order to assure the survival and success of liberty.

This much we pledge-and more."

Hint to some of the dumber lefties that may be lurking...that quote isn't from Bush.

It's a good thing I read a lot of history, otherwise I might not know that Democrats were once sane and put country over party.

107 Erg is the classic example of the matter touching antimatter situation of a hate America leftist aligning with those who are the most ideologically opposite from them, save their hatred of the West. As a result, all you get are the deranged rantings of erg and others.

108 Has anyone seen my goal posts?  Leftists have been moving them around a lot lately, but now the fuckers done stole'em outright last night.

109 Erg isn't saying anything that someone's whose ass got kicked up and down the street wouldn't say. He is not screeching as a fellow American. He's screeching like the defeated dog he is along with his terrorist and marxist brothers.  Anytime you or your partners care to face us egr, we will just kick your ignorant ass again.

110

Drew,

Honestly, how long would it take from the time we decide to militarily intervene in Darfur until Newsweek, CNN, Valerie Plame and Keith Olbermann condemn it as American interventionism or a Sudanese oil connection?

I'm guessing you could measure that time in minutes.

111

I'm guessing you could measure that time in minutes.

My guess is never, provided a Dem is president.

112 Did read all the comments...

That is one of the stupidest editorials I've ever read.

She actually uses France and Germany teaming with Britain to put pressure on Iran as --- her biggest example of how the war in Iraq has damaged our ability to have an effective foreign policy because of how much we've turned the world against us????

How does that work?

Everyone should go read the full editorial...

She somehow missed the fact France just elected a gung-ho pro-American leader --- and that this has actually REVERSED the decades long French foreign policy directive dating back to De Gualle that France's best way to have power in the world was to find ways to disagree with the US?

Next, she claims Europe is dead set against the US using force in Iran, including just limited strikes at nuclear facilities, not because they are against military action, but because they scream it wouldn't work?

My jaw hits the floor again...

Does she read her own newspaper?

How did she miss the fact that Israel just stunned all rogue regimes of the world by demonstrating that US-level air technology and equipment could fly through what Syria (and Iran) believed were "state of the art" air defenses and blow the hell out of Syria's apparent nuke facility totally unmolested?

I mean, seriously, somebody needs to pull this woman's head out of her ass, because she has clearly shoved it so far up there, she can't even pay attention to world events....

....AND SHE WORKS FOR THE WASHINGTON POST - for Pete's sake!!!

If the price we have to pay diplomatically for Iraq War II is a pro-US leader in France who is willing to apply pressure on Iran, we probably should have invaded years ago....

113

We can only hope that if Iran does get nukes, they kill the whiny anti-Americans first.

114

Hey, just as an aside, any of you guys want to see pictures of me fucking a pumpkin?

It depends.  Are you going to be the "bottom"?

 

115

Hey, just as an aside, any of you guys want to see pictures of me fucking a pumpkin?

You mean,  more pictures.

116 Oddly enough, Anne Applebaum is the author of the excellent <i>Gulag</i>, which illustrates in no uncertain terms how godawful Stalin was.  Just goes to show you that the left has managed to remain reflexively anti-American while dropping the whole "Soviet-apologist" thing.... which I suppose is progress of a sort. 

117 You stupid cow.

I believe you have erred, Hamid, by referring to Laura as a "cow."   She has a misshapen physique due to an unfortunate genetic defect that resulted in her hunchback, and yet she bravely soldiers on, offering to the public the service of packing and shipping our parcels, despite her hideous deformity.  This deserves respect. 

It was ungentlemanly of you to mock her appearance in such a callous manner.  Have you no heart?

118

Monty,

Great post, BUT it was NOT a civil war, it was a war between the states.  Each Southern State succeed from the union, which they reasonably thought they could.  It was the Yankees who refused to remove their troops from a fort in a state that had left the union and had given the troops time to safely leave.  Would we let Canada have a fort in NY?  I don't think so.  Lincoln wanted the Charleston confrontation. Period. He got it.

Oh, I guess you didn't read this up North. Winners write the history books.  That is why the MSM is so dangerous.

We can not let them write the history of the our victory in Iraq.

Kemp

 

119

He has nothing.  No heart, no brain, no stomach, no courage, no strength, no wisdom, no sanity, no modesty, no humor and no value.

What lauraw drops into the toilet occasionally possesses more of all these qualities than he, even on the very best day of his life.

Sorry if I got too personal, L, but you know what I mean.

120 Hamid you want boom boom?  Me love you long time big boy!

121 This would have come as a shock to Americans of late 1941, however, who were fighting because we were attacked by the Empire of Japan. At the time, it seemed fairly uncomplicated.

It wasn't all that complicated for Japan, either.  We had previously threatened to choke off their oil supply line, upon which an industrialized Japan was entirely dependent, having no energy resources of its own.

As Kemp said, history is written by the winners.

122 BTW, the whole "sneak attack" theme about Pearl Harbor is bullshit.  The Japanese are on honorable people.  They tried  to give us advance warning that the negotiations were off, prior to the attack, but they fucked up due to the lack of a competent stenographer at their embassy in Washington.  Still, they tried. It's just one of those accidents of history.

Even so, the attack should not have been a total surprise, given the technology of the time.  The Zeroes should have been detected on approach.  It was American incompetence that made the attack such a complete surprise, so that our planes were grounded and the fleet was at anchor.

123 BTW, the whole "sneak attack" theme about Pearl Harbor is bullshit.

Michael,
I think that's going a bit to far. The memo they couldn't get decoded in time was simply an announcement they were breaking off negotiations. They weren't tardy in passing along a declaration of war.

Simply ending negotiations didn't mean a state of war automatically existed. 

Even if they did meet the legal standard, it was scheduled to be at the same time the attack was taking place, just because they were a few minutes late doesn't mean their original time line was exactly honorable notice of war.

124 The Japanese are on honorable people.

Yea right.  The porked me pretty hard.

125

The Japanese are on honorable people.

Well, now they are, at least their government now is much much better.  But, back then the Imperial Japanese Empire was a nightmare.  Just ask, the Chinese, Malasians, Koreans, Indonesians, etc.

We were right to threaten their oil supplies, they had been slaughtering Chinese since 1931.

 

126 We were right to threaten their oil supplies, they had been slaughtering Chinese since 1931.

You say that like it's a bad thing.

127 Ask my mom's Indonesian friend, who spent time in a concentration camp, what he thinks about Japanese honorability.

128 Ask my mom's Indonesian friend, who spent time in a concentration camp, what he thinks about Japanese honorability.

Your Mom's Indonesian friend was not subjected to waterboarding.

129 The Chinese and the Indonesians today are the two most populous and rapidly industrializing nations on earth. Collectively, they represent the greatest threat to the Crisis of Global Warming.

Just sayin'.

130 Yea right. The porked me pretty hard.

You were asking for, Nanking.
We saw how you were dressed.

131 Who's Raoul?

132 Michael, you're such a dork.

133

Your Mom's Indonesian friend was not subjected to waterboarding.

Are you freaking kidding?  Most of our troops are waterboarded during their training.

I seriously hope that was a lame attempt at humor.

Qwinn

134 Slightly more interesting than a flea's belch, but tErg's current handle, Hamid, is a curious choice. Obviously he was trying to make us morons piss our collective panties at the thought of an Iraqi addressing us here, but like a good leftist, the story has a few contradictions.

Hamid Majid Mousa , according to his wiki, was a exile from Iraq, but returned in 83 to the Kurdish area.

Hmm, why would someone leave immediately after Sadaam's rise to power? And why would tErg want to adopt the persona of someone who found the American-loving Kurds good company? I just can't figure it out. But then again, I'm just an evil inbred conservative.

The real 'Slim Majid was/is a member of the Iraqi Communist Party and was their secretary in 1993. See Michael Totten for the whole Iraqi Commie situation.

Greg - well, tErg's not exactly trying to hide his true allegiance, is he?

The real 'Slim Hamid helped draft the post-invasion Constitution.

I guess to tErg that was another BusHitler failure. Brown people, having a constitutional government. That'll never do. Uppity Brown folks.

No, all good progressives want Iraq under the yoke of some form of fascism; Secular, religious, whatevah. It's all sheet music for the Righteous Symphony of the Latter Day Progressives.

135 I'd ask my grandfather, but the Japaneses killed him in the PI. Apparently they wanted his land more than he did.

136 Michael, you're such a dork.

I know my place.

Are you freaking kidding?

Yes, I'm freaking kidding.

Sheesh, people used to have a sense of humor on this blog.  Like, six years ago.  It all went downhill when Ace banned Cedarford.

137 You called?

138 Thanks, Raoul, for coming back with some funny.

139 Test

140 So, Trimestigus has not been banned yet.

What does he have to say?

141 De nada.

142

Okay, you -were- kidding.  Phew.  Sorry for missing it, but I don't know you from Adam yet, and you were making some seriously trollish statements prior to that, was pretty easy to think you were being serious.    God knows we have some trolls that -would- say things that insipid.

Qwinn

143 Sheesh, people used to have a sense of humor on this blog.

Things were really funny until we poked all those people's eyes out.

144

Hamid's parody, right?  C'mon Entropy, Tushar, whoever you are.  Great job!

Ms. Applebaum's a liberal.  She thinks she shouldn't have to pay for anything, right?  The government should provide every single one of her desires all for "free."  Of course she thinks the price of Iraq is too high.

But aren't these the same idiots who just a year ago were screaming because the war hadn't cost them enough?  I'm kinda dizzy......

145 Things were really funny until we poked all those people's eyes out.

And you are to blame for that, Geoff.  You drove the amusing trolls away.  Yes you did!

Bastard!!!

Next time I'm in Denver, BTW, it's your turn to pick up the tab, you low-life wanker.  Don't you forget that.

146

From the article "Collateral Damage" by Anne Applebaum

"Casualties are definitely down." This is a measurable, and in fact measured, item.

"The surge is working" She’s heard this, from others; why then does she evade rather than deny it? Could it be that the measured item (above) shows the truth?

"Why doesn't the mainstream media tell the truth about our successes in Iraq?" Strangely, she never answers this question (again, why?), even though she says she’s heard it, and has an opportunity to answer it.

"Though I don't especially want to perpetuate any stereotypes about the mainstream media, I have to say that this optimism is totally unwarranted." Based on what?  The measured item (above) says different.  Further, why does she "have to say . . ."?  Editorial policy?

"Not because things aren't improving in Iraq -- it seems they are, at least for the moment – . . ." So Applebaum admits that things are improving in Iraq. Why then is "this optimism" "totally unwarranted"?  The measured item (above) says different.

There seems to be a logic problem in Applebaum’s writing.

". . . but because the collateral damage inflicted by the war on America's relationships with the rest of the world is a lot deeper and broader than most Americans have realized." Ah, a new direction to attack, to shift the discussion, and judging from the rest of Applebaum’s article, tangentially relevant at best.

"So fresh are the memories of American claims about the extent of weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, and so vast, therefore, is the skepticism about any assessments of anybody's nuclear program, that even a report bearing any United Nations or European Union label would fail to convince, even if Iranian nukes were on display in downtown Tehran."

So "a report bearing any United Nations or European Union label would fail to convince . . ." who? The UN Members / Europeans that wrote it? As a side note, what is the link between this and US credibility, and where is it in the article?

"All analysis coming out of the United States is, of course, automatically discounted." No. We’re dealing with men who understand the real world, not a group of Manhattan Mommies who make and break play-dates based on whose kid has committed the most recent faux-pas: Eddie Bauer Quallofil® jacket instead of the LL Bean goose down model, Che t-shirt made from the poster of his victims (NOT the correct one) etc.

"Since no one takes analysis seriously, it's hardly surprising that no one takes the possibility of a nuclear Iran too seriously either." Obviously wrong. Seriously, "analysis" has a bit of a bad name outside of those who have the money to indulge in having their personas, psyches, ids, egos, "habits", "tastes" or whatever, examined, discussed, medicated and generally shaked-and-baked (make sign of fist connection here; all hail Ricky Bobby). BTW, has anyone asked her what color the sky is in her world?

Applebaum’s article is crap.

Anyone with at least a 6^th grade education would pick up on the logic problems.

In fact, anyone with at least a 6^th grade education could a better article

This is why the WaPo and other major newspapers are slowly going bankrupt.

147 And you are to blame for that, Geoff.  You drove the amusing trolls away.  Yes you did!

How could I have known that they'd break so easily?

Next time I'm in Denver, BTW, it's your turn to pick up the tab, you low-life wanker.

Sure, but can we please go to a hetero bar this time?

148 doofus kamas?

149

I noticed that too, fc.  Kinda odd.  Must be really important too, since I see it in there at least 5 times.

Qwinn

150 Sure, but can we please go to a hetero bar this time?

Oh, that is so unfair.  I am cut to the quick.  You  picked the bar, you chart-drawing, math-geek, Ph.D-candidate intellectual poseur.

I only tolerate you because your wife is hot.

151

152 I only tolerate you because your wife is hot.

Likewise, I'm sure.

153

Wow! I go out to see the tree lighting at Francis Park in STL with the wife and daughter, go on a carriage ride and pet a reindeer, and look what happens.

 

Sheesh. And to think the Eagles are fucking up the spread.

154

#86 Lokki -

Most excellent post!  May I copy it on my blog?  With credit and link to here, of course.

155 Likewise, I'm sure.

Well, thank you.

*Michael calms down*

I'm sorry I called you a poseur.

It was wrong of me to insult you with a French word.  You don't deserve that.

156 Eyes on the ball, bitches.

Walking and chewing gum, dingleberry.

Don't tell me you drove off another troll, guys.  Admittedly erg isn't that smart, but trolls have been scarcer than healthy hobos lately.  It's about conservation, people.

157

Don't tell me you drove off another troll, guys.

Maybe Ace mistook him for a hobo.

158 Erg was more fun way back when he was still pretending to be interested in mounting an argument. He got banned a few times for good reasons.

159

trolls have been scarcer than healthy hobos lately

If it's any comfort, just remember, we'll always have Michael.

160

Elisa  -

You're more than welcome to my post..... Just let me know the link for your blog, if you would.... I'd be interested to see a place where I fit in...

 

Lokki

 

161

The Thunder Run has linked to this post in the - Web Reconnaissance for 11/26/2007  A short recon of what’s out there that might draw your attention, updated throughout the day...
http://thunderrun.blogspot.com/2007/11/web-reconnaissance-for-11262007.html

162 So when did erg learn to use capital letters anyway?

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