Only Three Terrorists Have Been Waterboarded?

An ABC News investigation has turned up an interesting piece of information:

For all the debate over waterboarding, it has been used on only three al Qaeda figures, according to current and former U.S. intelligence officials.
As ABC News first reported in September, waterboarding has not been used since 2003 and has been specifically prohibited since Gen. Michael Hayden took over as CIA director.

The report can be found here. I think that most people believe that waterboarding has seen much more widespread use. I know I did. While it's apparent rarity doesn't say anything about the appropriateness of the practice, it does fly in the face of Lefty hysteria about an out-of-control "torture program."

It appears from the report that the use of "enhanced interrogation techniques" has been carefully considered by the CIA and used on a total of only 12 Al Qaida detainees. I'm sure we've discussed the six techniques before, but it doesn't hurt to remind everyone:

1. The Attention Grab: The interrogator forcefully grabs the shirt front of the prisoner and shakes him.
2. The Attention Slap: An open-handed slap aimed at causing pain and triggering fear.
3. The Belly Slap: A hard open-handed slap to the stomach. The aim is to cause pain, but not internal injury. Doctors consulted advised against using a punch, which could cause lasting internal damage.
4. Longtime Standing: This technique is described as among the most effective. Prisoners are forced to stand, handcuffed and with their feet shackled to an eye bolt in the floor for more than 40 hours. Exhaustion and sleep deprivation are effective in yielding confessions.
5. The Cold Cell: The prisoner is left to stand naked in a cell kept near 50 degrees. Throughout the time in the cell the prisoner is doused with cold water.
6. Waterboarding (as demonstrated in the picture above): The prisoner is bound to an inclined board, feet raised and head slightly below the feet. Cellophane is wrapped over the prisoner's face and water is poured over him. Unavoidably, the gag reflex kicks in and a terrifying fear of drowning leads to almost instant pleas to bring the treatment to a halt.

This story should come with several caveats, however:

First, they haven't named their sources. It sounds like there are many more than one, but they are nevertheless unnamed.

Second, the report appears to apply only to the CIA. No word on separate detainee treatment by the military (although the six techniques listed above are also contained in the army field guide), or occasions in which extraordinary rendition has been used. I mention this because the military, rather than the CIA, presently have and have had the majority of War on Terror combatant-detainees.

Posted by: Gabriel Malor at 12:28 AM

Comments

1 The conspiracy theorist in me has to wonder why this report was published on a Friday...

Posted by: Gabriel Malor at November 03, 2007 12:29 AM (1Ug6U)

Meanwhile, lest we forget, the other guys employ the Stoning, the Car Battery, the Electric Drill, the Dull Knife Beheading, the Honor Killing, and the Suicidal Death Cult.

Posted by: Secundus at November 03, 2007 12:37 AM (0BsU3)

3 And we know the name of one of them - it was Khalid Sheikh Mohammed.

Posted by: Al at November 03, 2007 12:44 AM (Lk931)

Allow me to play Devil's Advocate:

Lefties are against all of the things mentioned above because they do not trust ANY confession brought about my physical interogation. They seem to think that these guys are only confessing to make the pain stop, whether they really are terrorists or not. How is this rebuted?

Posted by: Mike at November 03, 2007 01:06 AM (+XDhk)

5 Lefties are against all the things mentioned above because there is a Republican in the White House. They don't care about the way foreign terrorists are treated any more than I do. If Hillary wins in 2008, you won't be able to swing a dead cat without hitting a federal-bureaucracy-run health care system sales piece, masquerading as an MSM news article. But you won't hear another peep about waterboarding.

Posted by: Steve at November 03, 2007 01:11 AM (Sg7ZN)

Hey Gabriel Malor,

Will you go to your earlier post on this topic HERE and read my final two comments along with Ron Carne's link?

This is something that I think would make for a good post and I would be very interested to hear other peoples' opinions.

The bottom line question is this: if we waterboard our own special forces, can it really be torture?

Posted by: Rosetta at November 03, 2007 01:16 AM (omkIU)

7 That's what I have been saying from day 1...only allow the CIA to water board. Only allow a select few agents and at a select facility. That way you severely limit the amount of "torture lite" you can do and stop any slippery slope actions (hawt!) where we end up with the Boy Scouts waterboarding Kabul taxi drivers.

Posted by: Aaron at November 03, 2007 01:39 AM (o2i9S)

8 Oh, I forgot to mention that this should all be kept secret?

Posted by: Aaron at November 03, 2007 01:57 AM (o2i9S)

9 Are you f@#!ing kidding me? Three times?

You'd think we had our own Waterboarding line of products with labels and all after all this yapping.

Posted by: runninrebel at November 03, 2007 02:05 AM (o/KrO)

10 Do you mean to tell me the taxpayers paid for all those Damn Waterboards and they've been sitting idle while ANSWER rallies went on all over the country?!

Posted by: richard mcenroe at November 03, 2007 02:15 AM (AZziM)

11 More liberals have been waterboarded by each other to testify how evil we are!

Posted by: Z Ryan at November 03, 2007 02:24 AM (PDeVA)

12 Rosetta, I see the comments and link. I've also been thinking about how to define torture (actually, I'm in the middle of arguing about it with a buddy from school) and you're right: it is an interesting topic. It's going to be one for another day, though. I've got to get some sleep. I've got both the MPRE and Aceapalooza West to do tomorrow.

Posted by: Gabriel Malor at November 03, 2007 02:53 AM (1Ug6U)

13 They seem to think that these guys are only confessing to make the pain stop, whether they really are terrorists or not. How is this rebuted?

KSM gave good information...so it works at least 33% of the time even if you assume the other two water boarded were total dry wells.

A batting average of .333 makes you a pretty elite hitter.

Posted by: Purple Avenger at November 03, 2007 03:46 AM (FAa83)

Waterboarding. Is that anything like snowboarding?

Posted by: Ostral-B Heretic at November 03, 2007 03:47 AM (8myaM)

15 You might be thinking of "Boogie Boarding", although the end result is usually the same - the board goes that-a-way, a brief suspension of the Law of Gravity, and then a face plant at speed.

"If it weren't for the honor, I'd druther have walked."

Posted by: Drumwaster at November 03, 2007 04:20 AM (hJWio)

Only three waterboardings?

Clearly, this was an oversight on someone's part. I demand an investigation.

Posted by: SWLiP at November 03, 2007 06:31 AM (prKWh)

Actually, we did many more waterboardings, but we had the diagram backwards and we kept pouring the water on the guy's feet.

Some confessed anyway.

Posted by: eman at November 03, 2007 07:06 AM (NPwKI)

18 "4. Longtime Standing: This technique is described as among the most effective. Prisoners are forced to stand, handcuffed and with their feet shackled to an eye bolt in the floor for more than 40 hours. Exhaustion and sleep deprivation are effective in yielding confessions."

Chinese people do this regularly, while riding the trains across the country. The cheapest ticket is standing room only, and people often stand for stretches of 40 hours or more.

Posted by: chinotex at November 03, 2007 07:24 AM (/KjuU)

It's not about confession; it's about verfiable information. We ALREADY now the people are terrorists; we're trying to find out what they have planned nexr. When they give up info, it's checked.

The whole "torture doesn't work" line is NOT logical. It DOES work to elicit what we're trying to get.

And as for the definition of torture, waterboarding doesn't kill, main, or leave lasting scars (physical or emotional). It isn't torture. Terrorists do not deserve the application of the conventions of warfare anyway as they do not meet the definition of uniformed combattant. I would accept that genuine uniformed POWs be exempt from the procedure, but "militants" deserve no such protections.

Posted by: goddessoftheclassroom at November 03, 2007 07:27 AM (2JYad)

20 Is it torture if our people threaten to have Teddy Kennedy take a terrorist for a ride in his Oldsmobile?

Posted by: Reiver at November 03, 2007 08:37 AM (Tq70s)

21 Political football. This plays well in the press and is redefined as torture...you know like chopping off a finger..or impaling a man's head through a fence to make him talk...and if he doesn't well....kinda fun watching him scream and yell now wasn't it? Next, asking someone questions with a bright light in his eyes and depriving him of a cigarette will be considered torture.

Posted by: Water Bored at November 03, 2007 10:02 AM (Am6n/)

I thought we knew that Rumsfeld only approved waterboarding (or was it harsh interogation techniques) for one dude. You know, Rosie O'donnell's less anti-American twin we captured in Pakistan.

The disconnect between reality and fantasy in this respect is further illustrated by this story. Libs are walking around thinking that most americans are a dixie chick album away from being water-boarded. I think water boarding should be like abortion, safe legal and rare. Ok, well, maybe not that rare. And I think abortion should be illegal. Whatever, I need more coffee.

Posted by: joeindc44 at November 03, 2007 10:08 AM (eQF5r)

23 pfffft....

The purple nurple, the atomic wedgie, the locked in the locker and the spit ball to the back of the head didn't make the list?

Yous guys is weak

Posted by: High School Bully at November 03, 2007 10:24 AM (Am6n/)

24 If these confessions are verifiable, we should be telling the Dumbocrats how they are. And if we can't because it would foul up an existing investigation, we should say that is the reason without going into specifics. Otherwise the media will act like Bushitler is torturing innocent brown yak herders.

Posted by: Mike at November 03, 2007 10:37 AM (+XDhk)

25 I would accept that genuine uniformed POWs be exempt from the procedure, but "militants" deserve no such protections.

Excellent point. If they abided by the Geneva Conventions themselves (e.g., wearing uniforms or some other insignia, not deliberately targeting non-combatants, treating captured U.S. prisoners in accordance with the laws of war) I'd be against this sort of thing. In fact, I'd be on the protest line myself.

Since they aren't? Fuck 'em. Fuck them and all their heirs, assigns, successors, agents, employees, tenants, licensees, bailees, trustees, devisees, and legatees. If they want war to the knife, let them have it. Send Khalid Shaikh Rosie O'Donnell's head back to his tribe with his severed cock sewn into its mouth, along with a Burger King bacon double cheeseburger.

Ever stop to think that the last enemy we had that provided even a token adherence to the Geneva Conventions was Nazi Germany? That says rather a lot about the type of enemy we've had in recent decades, doesn't it?

Posted by: Dead Career Sketch at November 03, 2007 10:54 AM (NdG3x)

26
All this emotional hand wringing over giving a couple of titty twisters to a couple of terrorists. Sheesh.

Posted by: aoshq janitor at November 03, 2007 11:01 AM (yg4bv)

KSM gave good information...so it works at least 33% of the time even if you assume the other two water boarded were total dry wells.

Actually, even the CIA debates whether KSM gave good information. CIA questioned the "reliability" of his information. Do you have a source that can validate all the KSM info derived from torture was true?

Posted by: Ron Carne at November 03, 2007 11:07 AM (LFuhi)

28 I'm actually disappointed that it's only three, so far.

And why do we have to keep broadcasting to the terrorists every technique we use to extract information from them?

Something tells me that this @#$%! tendency we have of openly discussing our methods and strategies, and then agonizing over them, isn't helpful.

Posted by: Nice Deb at November 03, 2007 11:09 AM (RbUTt)

29 Mike at November 03, 2007 01:06 AM It's called corroboration. Confessions are only one piece of the puzzle. They can be matched against other evidence and sources. What someone like KSM tells us, can either back up and confirm other bits of information or start us down another road of information gathering. As far as 3 people being subjected to this technique...judging by the outrage you'd think at least that many Dkos posters alone had been whisked off to Gitmo and dunked. Can we just move on now?

Posted by: Drew at November 03, 2007 11:20 AM (hlYel)

30
You took the words right out of my mouth, Drew. I get tired of these leftard opinions based on nothing.

Posted by: aoshq janitor at November 03, 2007 11:37 AM (yg4bv)

31 You want to hear some torture stories, get assigned next door to a Ukranian unit with a high number of Soviet Spetznaz veterans with Afghanistan service. The worst one I heard involved a pair of handcuffs, a pair of pliers, and a good cigarette lighter. No, I am not kidding. I couldn't make the procedure up if I tried.

Posted by: SGT Dan at November 03, 2007 01:42 PM (oOQel)

32 There should be mass demonstrations around the country where we line up to be waterboarded. Torture, my ass.

Posted by: VRWC Agent at November 03, 2007 02:23 PM (Z3AmO)

33 the six techniques listed above are also contained in the army field guide Check out FM 2-22.3 (Human Intelligence Collector Operations). It's the Army's Field Manual on interrogation, and does not, in fact, contain those techniques. Ever since the Detainee Treatment Act of 2005 went into effect, only "approaches" listed in the FM are legally authorized for use by the Army.

Posted by: Jack at November 03, 2007 03:09 PM (5aI5x)

34 Bah. Sorry about the screwed up format.

Posted by: Jack at November 03, 2007 03:12 PM (5aI5x)

35 Y'know, Jack, I thought I'd seen them listed in FM 34-52, but I can't find 'em in there. As you note, 2-22-3 superseded 34-2 anyways.

Posted by: Gabriel Malor at November 03, 2007 04:00 PM (1Ug6U)

36 "Actually, even the CIA debates whether KSM gave good information. CIA questioned the "reliability" of his information. Do you have a source that can validate all the KSM info derived from torture was true?" -- Ron Carne @ 11:07am

Ron Carne,
All the info? Really? So if KSM said he was famished but was really only slightly hungry you'd say that's not enough? Come on. The question is not whether KSM was completely truthful. The question is whether he gave us information that could be developed into useful, actionable intelligence.

And the people in the CIA debate everything. That's part of the job. An intelligence agency that didn't debate would be as useful as tits on a boar hog.

And the CIA is a liberal bastion. And that's not just conjecture based on leaks provided to the NYT. I happen to know something about the culture and a few agents. So the idea that they wouldn't support the Administration's policies hardly surprises.

Furthermore, I (and you) shouldn't know whether or not certain practices work or are in use. That's the nature of a clandestine intelligence agency.

Finally, using scare quotes around the word reliability signifies something about your POV. You might want to see to that.

Posted by: Nom de Blog at November 03, 2007 04:25 PM (6Ie+q)

37 Google

Posted by: xprqf at November 03, 2007 08:24 PM (zh7Vn)

38 About five times as many journalists and thirty times more Jackass You Tube Darwinistas have self-waterboarded in that time. It's much more popular with Hollywood, media, and the kids than it ever was with the government. It never produces admissible evidence. So the only times it makes sense to do it you'd pretty much do it whether it's legal or not: pending terror strike.

Posted by: Chip at November 03, 2007 10:42 PM (sOtz/)

39 We should do just enough water boardings a year (perhaps one) to prompt journalists to water board themselves "exposing" it.

If one actual water boarding were to generate say 5 journalist water boardings, I'd see that as a major victory.

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