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| US Raids Net Nearly 100 Al Qaeda In Iraq, Including Four Alleged LeadersSadly, the great majority apparently tucked tail and surrendered, with only three Brave Warriors of Allah actually eager for DoD-catered martyrdom. In news closely related on top of Drudge, Bush will address the nation tonight to ask the country to take a "fresh look" at the new facts on the ground in Iraq.When top Democratic leaders visited him at the White House this week, President Bush told them he wanted to “find common ground” on Iraq. But when the president said he planned to “start doing some redeployment,” the House speaker, Nancy Pelosi, cut him off. “No you’re not, Mr. President,” Ms. Pelosi interjected. “You’re just going back to the presurge level.” The testy exchange, recounted by three people who attended the session or were briefed on it, provides a peek into how Mr. Bush will try to sell Americans on his Iraq strategy when he addresses the nation at 9 p.m. Thursday. With lawmakers openly skeptical of his troop buildup, Mr. Bush will cast his plan for a gradual, limited withdrawal as a way to bring a divided America together — even as he resists demands from those who want him to move much faster. The prime-time address will be the eighth by Mr. Bush on Iraq since the invasion in March 2003, the latest iteration of his efforts to sketch what he calls “the way forward.” It will be the first time he has described a plan for troop reductions, a radical departure for a president who has repeatedly defied his critics’ calls to bring the troops home. Yet as the president outlines his plan, his critics say he is trying to have it both ways. He is, they say, taking credit for a drawdown that has been envisioned since he first announced the current buildup on Jan. 10 — a withdrawal that had to be carried out unless he was willing to take the politically unpalatable step of extending soldiers’ tours further. The White House declined on Wednesday to preview Mr. Bush’s speech, but one senior administration official, speaking anonymously to avoid upstaging the president, said the reductions would be heavily conditioned on the situation in Iraq and would fall far short of the rapid withdrawal Democrats want.The fact is that the military is seriously overtaxed at this point. Bush surely should have created two new divisions prior to the Iraq War, but it's questionable how much such an impact such a common-sense move would have had. Meanwhile, the super strong, tough Democrats agitate further for surrender, and suggest the exciting new mission of "counter-terrorism" and training Iraqi forces in Iraq. Gee, why didn't we think of that. Killing terrorists and training Iraqi forces. Why, it all sounds so obvious when you put it like that! Comments1
Bush surely should have created two new divisions prior to the Iraq
War, but it's questionable how much such an impact such a common-sense
move would have had.
How much impact? It's only questionable if your fat-assed Cambridge-Boston nerdly assholio self is so isolated from any soldiers or Marines or their families so as to have no clue of the effect of these repeated deployments on them. Which you obviously have. No clue, that is. You should cruise down to Southie for a beating from some three-tour Iraq Marine vet. And this has had an effect on the conduct of the war, as both the Army Chief of Staff and the Commmandant of the USMC have warned that their services are in danger of breaking. And the families who are involved in the war, as you are not, have a voice too. Dude, Rumsfeld was testifying against expanding the size of the Army and USMC in 2004 (the McCain/Reid bill), long after any "common sense" dictated that the services should be expanded immediately. What a lickspittle dolt you are. Posted by: icus at September 13, 2007 04:12 PM (OTNlI) 2
Pay no attention to those jihadis under the dirt.
Posted by: Wizard of Odds at September 13, 2007 04:20 PM (0rl7n) 3
icus
I'm a nerdly assholio. What's the effect? Posted by: carl carlson at September 13, 2007 04:22 PM (sC8uT) 4
Icus:
There are 130,000 troops stationed in Iraq. The combined strength of the regular Army, National Guard, and Reserve is 1,030,000. The Marines have an additional 180,000. How the heck can having less than 10% of your force deployed to a low-intensity conflict "break" the armed services? What a fucking idiot you are. You should cruise down to MIT for a swat with a clue stick from someone capable of basic arithmetic. Posted by: Trimegistus at September 13, 2007 04:23 PM (aHeFG) 5
Trimegistus, Where are you getting your numbers? Active duty strength of the Army is around 470,000. 70% of all comabt vehicles in the United States Army are in Iraq. We only have a 10 division Army. Despite the fact that he is a douche, icus raises a good point. Two new division created in 2002 would make a big difference right about now. Only a republican could get away with not increasing the size of the military during a war. face it, if a democrat did the same thing we'd crucify him around here. And rightly so. George Bush shouldn't get a pass on this. Posted by: Oclarki at September 13, 2007 04:30 PM (ueol2) 6
You know that when the troops de-surged back from Iraq, the Congressional Dems would have taken credit for it, claiming that Bush was being forced to cave in to their MoveOn-crafted demands. But the moron Bush pre-empted them by claiming credit first. And PavlovPelosi contradicted him! He actually baited her into telling the truth! It's... Rovian.
Posted by: Bob Hawkins at September 13, 2007 04:34 PM (eZ0vq) 7
Reading comprehension for the loss:
"The combined strength of the regular Army, National Guard, and Reserve is 1,030,000. " Posted by: leoncaruthers at September 13, 2007 04:34 PM (7iTO9) 8
I guess two additional divisions would have gotten us to Baghdad in two weeks instead of three?
Posted by: polynikes at September 13, 2007 04:36 PM (m2CN7) 9
I love being called "nerdly" and apparently eastern elitist by a faggardly liberal calling himself "icus."
Posted by: ace at September 13, 2007 04:38 PM (1UCRY) 10
>>I guess two additional divisions would have gotten us to Baghdad in two weeks instead of three? Wasn't 3rd ID late to war because Turkey caught the asshole bug? Didn't make much difference. Saddam was still toast. Posted by: Tushar D at September 13, 2007 04:39 PM (IlgNp) 11
That said, our military is very overtaxed.
Posted by: ace at September 13, 2007 04:39 PM (1UCRY) Posted by: Tushar D at September 13, 2007 04:39 PM (IlgNp) 13
Troop levels are dictated by congress, not the president.
Posted by: Purple Avenger at September 13, 2007 04:46 PM (VNLlR) 14
icus,
I'm ascared. Will you hold me tight and safe in your big, strong arms? And maybe rock me gently as I sob into your flannel shirt drenched in Old Spice and engine oil? Posted by: ace at September 13, 2007 04:47 PM (1UCRY) 15
Ace, don't give him any ideas. He may show up at Acepalooza with a jar of jelly, and a bottle of syrup.
Posted by: Tushar D at September 13, 2007 04:49 PM (IlgNp) Posted by: pajama momma at September 13, 2007 04:56 PM (Tbl5c) 17
PA beat me to it, troop levels are authorized by Congress. Bush can certainly make the case for it, but it's up to them to make it happen. They usually (but certainly not always) act on recommendations from the Joint Chiefs. Does anybody, including icus really believe this Congress would choose to do this? NFW. The crazies would go ape-shit and everybody knows it. Posted by: Dave in Texas at September 13, 2007 05:00 PM (pzen5) Posted by: SEAN at September 13, 2007 05:05 PM (igcvF) 19
Sorry I was not sarcastic enough for you Tushar Posted by: polynikes at September 13, 2007 05:17 PM (m2CN7) 20
Al Hamdu Lillah. Will you hold me tight and safe in your big, strong arms? Posted by: TheEJS at September 13, 2007 05:24 PM (KINJc) 21
So of course the surrender and demise of these Jihadis gets the full court press, above the fold coverage etc right?
Posted by: Iblis at September 13, 2007 05:27 PM (9221z) 22
Isn't this putting the cart before the horse? The issue shouldn't be troop levels, it should, be what constitutes winning in Iraq? But this is never discussed. By anyone.
Posted by: ricpic at September 13, 2007 05:34 PM (sHJlf) 23
How about pressing the 30,000 or so human trip wires in South Korea into action.
I've been advocating this for a while now. After 50 years, I think the training wheels can come off the ROK...particularly since they're being prickly retards lately. Same goes for Germany. We don't need standing armies in western Europe. Their training wheels can come off too. Posted by: Purple Avenger at September 13, 2007 05:40 PM (VNLlR) 24
Instead of worrying about what the "left" is up to you should be watching out more for the Republicans who are taking new positions on Iraq.
As far as troop reductions are concerned they are going to happen regarless of what the situation in Iraq is. Posted by: John Ryan at September 13, 2007 06:04 PM (TcoRJ) 25
It's not like those troops in the ROK don't go to Iraq. Korea is a one year tour. US soldiers aren't stationed in the same place their whole careers. So those troops in Korea you want to go to Iraq probably have, or when their next duty assignment takes them to another unit.
Posted by: Oclarki at September 13, 2007 06:09 PM (zZKSp) 26
The point is they are not needed in S.Korea. They are put there to be killed. Triggering the U.S.A defense of S.Korea. Posted by: SEAN at September 13, 2007 06:22 PM (igcvF) 27
Sean's right. There's no way 30,000 US troops are going to defend SK from over a million NK troops. Of course, right now is probably not a good time to pull them out as Lil' Kim is sort of going along with the plan. But I fail to see why a country with one of the largest economies in the world can't be responsible for its own defense. And I don't mean Germany. Posted by: Scott at September 13, 2007 06:53 PM (xYPjq) 28
Bush surely should have created two new divisions prior to the Iraq War, but it's questionable how much such an impact such a common-sense move would have had. Whoa, Ace--any clue to how long it takes to set up two divisions? I'm a former Air Force pilot, but even I know that this means two divisions worth of NCOs, company grade officers, and senior officers. You don't just wave a wand and make that happen. Keeping your experienced troops is tough enough even with stop-loss programs. It's wayyyy easier to disband an Army than it is to build one. Just ask Hillary's husband. My uninformed guess is 4-7 years after Congress funds it. How about an Army personnel type to set us straight? Posted by: lifter33 at September 13, 2007 07:12 PM (vTP+Y) 29
Lifter,
Ace didn't say it would be easier and or quick, to be fair. The only question therewithin is how would Bush have held out against moving on Iraq in the face of universe intelligence suggesting that Sadaam would eventually be free of sanctions and able to harbor, fund, and arm AQ. Bush chose not to gamble with that. Posted by: adamthemad at September 13, 2007 07:35 PM (3jNT9) 30
The testy exchange, recounted by three people who attended the session or were briefed on it, provides a peek into how Mr. Bush will try to sell Americans on his Iraq strategy when he addresses the nation at 9 p.m. Thursday.
Note the implication here: The American people must be sold on the idea of not abandoning Iraq and surrendering. Americans are all for just giving up and President Bush has to convince us all otherwise! Posted by: Christopher Taylor at September 13, 2007 07:40 PM (wmgz8) Posted by: Tushar D at September 13, 2007 07:54 PM (9ULFg) 32
Oh, children, children, children. Where to begin.
First, it was the 4th Division that was kept out of the first part of the war because they couldn't get in through Turkey. Their commander at the time is now Petraeus' three-star corps commander, a guy named Ray Odierno. Ace, the Army didn't necessarily need two more divisions, what it needed was more deployable brigades. See, pre-'04, you took a brigade of three manuver battalions, and it had to borrow stuff like artillery, engineers, signal units, and so on from the Division's pool of stuff for it to work. Under the new system, the brigades now permanently own all its own stuff, while usually trading one of its three infantry battalions for a light cav outfit with more gun trucks and recon assets. It works a little differently in tank/mech infantry outfits, but I'm a light infantry guy so I don't know their MTOE as well as I do mine. Anyway, when we invaded in March '03, we did it with the 3rd Infantry Division (Mechanized), the 1st Marine Division, backed up with my own 101st Airborne Division (Air Assault), a largely helicopterborne unit. Think of the scene in Apocalypse Now where LTC Kilgore's 1-9 Air Cav hits that village. Now do it at 0300 with night vision equipment and better trained and equipped guys. Oh, and without the loudspeakers. The Army lost its sense of humor. Anyway, that is what the 101st does these days. The traditional parachute assault was executed by the 173rd Airborne Brigade out of Vincenza, Italy. There was also an orphan brigade (2nd Brigade, the 325th) kicking around, then the 2nd Armored Cav showed up later. At that time, the Army consisted of ten divisions, and maybe 28 deployable brigades. Two brigades of the 2nd Infantry Division were in Korea. Scratch them. Two of the 82nd were in Afghanistan. Units in Germany were doing their normal turmoil of shutting down and moving back to the States, etc. Since that time, most every division in the Army has added a fourth brigade. The 10th Mountain Division, which was only two brigades, now has three. It's not a matter of making more division HQ's, it's a matter of growing more infantry battalions and cav squadrons. And when you look at the Army's full strength, a whole lot of that is useless. That number includes everyone from the lieutenant colonel and flunkies who do housekeeping for the Chief of Staff to a E-4 X-ray technician at Brooke Army Hospital. Active duty infantry is only maybe ten percent of the total, and even then some of those are busy teaching our replacements. I can bore more people with this over e-mail, and direct the interested reader to some reference materials. Start with anything written by BG Daniel Bolger. Posted by: SGT Dan at September 13, 2007 07:56 PM (oOQel) 33
And the one reason we're there in South Korea is to act as a deterrent to both sides. The South Koreans are quite capable of starting a war on their own, probably winning it, and going all the way to the Chinese border and dragging them into it. We're just there to stabilize the whole unholy mess as six nations have a stake in that fight should it kick off, and the Japanese are downwind should it go nuclear-chem-bio.
Posted by: SGT Dan at September 13, 2007 07:58 PM (oOQel) 34
Oh, children, children, children. Where to begin.
Might I suggest you start by dialing back the patronizing and arrogant tone? Posted by: Christopher Taylor at September 13, 2007 08:30 PM (wmgz8) 35
Look, man, I just spent another fourteen hour workday dealing with company-grade officers who don't know this stuff. My knees feel like shit so I know it's going to rain tonight, my wife's sick, the cat puked on the kitchen floor, and I log on to my favorite waste of brainpower to have another argument like we have at the office, only with less facts involved.
Sorry if I came across as a dick to open the lecture, but trust me, even if I'm having a rotten fucking day and I'm letting it show, I know what I'm talking about. Posted by: SGT Dan at September 13, 2007 09:00 PM (oOQel) 36
I didn't mind the patronizing tone -- which I took to be tongue-in-cheek -- because I believe SGT Dan has earned his knowledge of these matters the hard way and I thank him for his input and his service.
Posted by: Nom de Blog at September 13, 2007 09:09 PM (etc1C) 37
Nom, thanks. If you're ever just north of Nashville I owe you a beer.
Posted by: SGT Dan at September 13, 2007 09:11 PM (oOQel) 38
So, we are adding more units by increasing the number of brigades?
Also, I think Icus was saying that more troops would mean shorter tours, i.e. 12 months instead of 15. Probably should have added the additional troops on 09/12 2001 when it would have sailed through Congress. Hindsight of course. Posted by: Aaron at September 13, 2007 09:55 PM (rpKdj) 39
SGT Dan,
I lived in Nashville from 2001 'til 2003 so I may be back that way some day. But I'm afraid if you tried to buy me a beer instead of the other way around we might have to test all the things my Marine father taught me (And his WWII Army father taught him and me, btw.) about fighting and I wouldn't want that. So let's just agree that I'll be buying any rounds if I get back that direction. Lord knows you've earned them! Posted by: Nom de Blog at September 14, 2007 12:53 AM (EkG0f) 40
OK, Nom, I never turn down beer. You win. As for the adding brigades issue, at the time we were fighting a spec-ops intensive campaign in Afghanistan, and looking at a fast takedown of Iraq using three divisions. No one was interested in fighting a long counterinsurgency there, because we had no idea how fucked up that country was behind the facade. Also, a lot of the cadre for the new brigades came from units that had already fought over there and then refitted to the new model, so there's a time lag between authorization and it being ready to go. It would have been nice if the post 9/11 flood of recruits had worked out. Posted by: SGT Dan at September 14, 2007 12:32 PM (jCQ+I) 41
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