1 I like the second comment: [regarding Edwards] "He has the courage to lead."

Its like a bizarre lefty version of retard strength I guess.

2

"Please bail us out of this disastrous turn of events by making calls for defeat bipartisan and thus providing us poliitcal cover!"

What's really perverse is that they probably won't have to look too hard to find some Republican takers for this.

3 I link to Kos?  Can't you just quote it?

4 Get this: with Bush and Petraeus talking about the ability and desire to withdraw some troops next year, the perfidous Democrats will claim that it was always, all and only their idea. They'll try to spin it as being their victory all along. By constantly pressuring America to withdraw, it was really a stealth ninja plan to force the Iraqis to reconcile.

If what's his ass-hat can say on television that the war is being won in spite of America's efforts, there really is no debth of dishonesty and vileness these guys won't go to avoid having to admit that they were both on the wrong side, and wrong about the outcome.

They've been doing it for 60 years. There's no point in stopping now.

5

When I was going through My courtmartial trouble,  A friend of mine gave me this advice, (he was a TRUE fundamentalist, talked about how the catholic church was the whore of babylon, and how, as an atheist, I was more clean than the catholic church, WIERD GUY, Smart as all shit, but FUCKING WEIRD!!!)  "Deny, then Accuse, if challenged, make counteraccusations, and hier (spelling) a civilian lawyer, then, get a ticket to australia, you have a passport right? fly to australia, and enjoy yourself for 7 years with (he knew where "my girl" lived) come back, do your 30 days, and get the fuck away from this shit."

Okay, now that I think about it, I don't know how that applies, he was kinda crazy.

6 That is actually true, the fucking guy even had gold wings, and was merit sergeant.

7
We iz winnin in Irak!  Halp us John Kerry!

8 z ryan, you're not missing much with Kos.  Its just a bunch of circular whining about Obama and Hillary not kissing bin Ladens ass fast enough.

He does hold Edwards in a certain messianic light but the first guy who turns tail aint the right sort of leader.  Oh sure, he's leading alright but he's leading the retreat.

9 Pinto, I don't think the guy liked you at all.

10 It's Blowback.

It's their just desserts.

And it's gonna be as fun as flopping a straight flush to watch the train wreck next week.

11

My favorite part:

"The emerging proposal by Mr. Levin and Senator Jack Reed, Democrat of Rhode Island, would still order the administration to begin pulling at least some combat troops out of Iraq, probably by the end of the year. It is not clear what other provisions the measure may include."

What part of "Separation of Powers" do these dickheads not understand?  I'd love to see Congress try to ORDER the president to pull out the combat troops.  They can try to cut off funds, but that's about it.  Fuckers.

12 The president should order flags pulled at half mast considering both chambers of congress are now run by pussies who are entertaining the same notions of "victory" that our sworn enemies do.

13

Well, Ralph, he knew that the love of my life was australian.

So If I vanish for 7, come back do 30, and go back, all my children would still be citizens.

He was a retread, with a conflict bastard child, I think.

14 Look, the facts are unambiguous.  The military doesn't have the troops to sustain current levels past next spring.  Now, think REALLY HARD about what that means will happen next year, no matter WHAT Bush orders.

Got it?  Have you figured it out yet?

Bin Laden must be f**king ECSTATIC about Bush's destruction of the US military. Bush is doing what bin Laden could never do alone.

Yes, troop levels will come down next year.  Yes, republicans will claim that the exhaustion of US troop strength is a "victory" -- as will bin Laden.

I will never forgive the right for what it has done to weaken this country. And those who supported this disaster will never forgive the rest of us for being right.

15 Take a pill, Tubby.  Yer scarin' the neighbors.

16 tubino, you asshole. You're stealing John (Abscam) Murtha's talking points. All lies.

17 Just out of curiosity, when you're confronted with the facts about the millions of internal and externally-displaced refugees, the reduced oil and electricity output, the lack of fresh water,... how do you manage to block all that to maintain your own version of reality?  And when you learn that even the long-promised Petraeus report is NEVER going to be published, obviously to hide the truth, how do you cope, and manage to not admit you were wrong?  If over 2 million (closer to 4 ins some accounts) people leave the country out of sheer desperation, doesn't that mean a safe and stable Iraq is RECEDING, instead of approaching?

I mean, doesn't it just drive you kinda bonkers?

Right. Got it.

18

tubino:

Take your forgiveness and shove it right up your ass. Buh bye.

19 Wait, some of you here maintain that your own military is lying about what troops are available?

Some of you believe that the troops exist to maintain 160K through next year?  And that the numbers are being fudged by the US military brass?

Wow.  That takes some serious mind-f***ing.  How do you BELIEVE that?

20 mikeyslaw:  take your right-wing Constitution-shredding country-destroying bin-Laden-supporting US-citizen-kidnapping faith-based bullshit agenda and SHOVE IT TILL IT SQUEEZES OUT YOUR EARS.

I trust I've made myself clear.

21 Tubby - Huh?

22

Hey Tubs, my party isn't the one bin Laden is always appealing to for support.

And as for making yourself clear, it is a known fact that liberal, scandi loving, God hating, wouldn't know a Constitution if it hit them in the face, U.N. suckup, defeatist, blow-hard bunch of fascist mothers could not make themselves clear if their lives depended on it.

I leave you to the loving embrace of wickedpinto, if he's still here.

23 What the right has done to weaken the country?

While the aforementioned scandals made bold headlines, Clinton's most significant failings as President concerned less publicized but far more ominous matters of national security. Clinton's loathing of the American military led to his failure in his primary responsibility: the protection of the American people. His actions with regard to military preparedness speak for themselves. In less than three years, deployments increased while manpower decreased from 2.1 million to 1.6 million. That decrease was the foundation upon which stood Al Gore's purported "reinvention" of government. Of the 305,000 employees removed from the federal payroll, 286,000 (or 90%) were military cuts.The statistics for America's defense during the Clinton years reveal the deep-seated animosity of the administration toward those who served in the military. The Army was cut from 18 divisions to 12. The Navy was reduced from 546 ships to 380. Air Force flight squadrons were cut from 76 to 50.

http://www.discoverthenetworks.org/individualProfile.asp?indid=644

Reduced oil and electricity output?  Well Saddam wasn't supposed to be selling very much oil now was he?  So unless you agree with the fact that he was selling it illegally to Russia, China, and France, piss off.

Lack of fresh water? Once again, compared to when?  Are you suggesting that the Kurds and Southern Iraqis had water fountains all over the place and now can't get any water?

If over 2 12 million (closer to 4 20 in[s] some accounts) people leave the country out of sheer desperation, doesn't that mean a safe and stable Iraq  Mexico is RECEDING, instead of approaching?

Shooting fish in a barrel.

24 wow, that's some crazy, is it real?

25 sadly, yes

26

"Democratic leaders are showing a new openness to compromise as they try to attract Republican support..."

Democrats: please, and I sincerely mean this - PLEASE GO FUCK YOURSELVES TO DEATH WITH A DIESEL-POWERED ROTO-ROOTER, and leave the running of this country to those that put it as their first priority, instead of filth like yourselves who regard it as a "lucky day for America" when your political interests accidently coincide with ours.

Let me know if I can explain this in more detail for you.

27 Anyways, my mom's husband is working in Iraq, right now, and will be there for 1 to 2 years, he  is trying to get my bro a job there, through haliburton, so if haliburton is looking for more contract workers, I take it as a good sign.

28

Wow.  I was going to ask tubino where he got his military info, but then he blew a a whole bank of breakers and fuses. 

Um, I guess I'll ask anyway.

Tubino, what are your sources of information?

 

29 >>Tubino, what are your sources of information?

Same as bin Laden's, Chomsky and Cole.

30 Didn't mean to scare away the troll with facts and logic guys.  I'm sorry, won't happen again.

31

Oh, and did Osama just throw his turban into the Democratic ring?

32 Damn, it's too bad the troll left before Jackstraw could work him over.

That would have been fun.

33 Not that former republican didn't do a capable job, of course.

34 Not that former republican didn't do a capable job, of course.



I was hoping for some more insane statements to pick apart.  Oh well, I do what I can when I can.

It was so bad under Clinton that when we went to the range to qualify, the targets had so many holes in them you couldn't shoot center mass (they way you were trained) because if you did, your bullet would pass through air and not hit anything.  The reason for this was because the budget was so strapped, there wasn't enough money to buy new targets.

You either had to try for a headshot, not easy at 300 meters, or try to aim at the dirt in front of the target to kick dirt up on it and hope there is enough force from the dirt to knock down the target.

But, Boooooooosh weakened the military, no one else.

35 Hi, still here.  Let me get ONE THING STRAIGHT.

Is there ONE among you who knows what the US military is saying publicly about troop strength?

Cuz all evidence suggests you haven't got a F***ING CLUE.

former republican:  are you aware of statistics, published regularly in mainstream outlets, of measures like electricity and water production?

Do you know where the latest ones are in relation to Iraq prior to invasion?

Cuz all evidence suggests you haven't got a F***ING CLUE.

If you think comparing economic emigration from Mexico is comparable to the millions leaving Iraq for Syria and Jordan, then you have shit for brains, and you imagine that Syria is offering a ladder up for Iraqis. How about you explain how that works for Iraqis there?

Shooting a goddamn brain-damaged squirrel in a trap. I feel cruel.

Not one honest response about the situation of the US military.

mikeyslaw, your party is carrying out bin laden's agenda of weakening the US by getting it into Iraq, as the USSR got into Afghanistan.  No need to appeal for help when you're doing HIS BIDDING.  In between anonymous gay sex in public places, of course.

36 I'm trying to be kinder and gentler, Deb. When I see a lefty like tubby start shrieking about the Constitution, I just can't take it seriously. It's like me arguing about tampons, it's something I have no idea about. I leave that to Rosetta.

As you said, former republican dispatched him nicely.

37 former republican:  simple question for you:

troop readiness now, or as Clinton left things. You get to pick. Which is better?

Is there one among you who understand that the US is borrowing hundreds of billions from China, to secure Iraqi oil, the principal customer of which will be China for the coming years?  Anyone understand what percent of discretionary fed budget will go to service those loans, and that 70% of that debt occurred under Reagan, Bush1 and Bush2?

Guess I'll come back with sources for those who can't use google.

38

Well, don't just suggest you know all the statistics, tubs, let's see them. Bring them on out here and let's go over those bad boys.

I really give a shit whether Iraq has all the electricity it needs. We got into this deal for oil, remember? That sure worked out well, didn't it?

How are we weakening our country by being in Iraq? Last I heard, our economy was still kicking ass and taking names. AQ has its hands full in Iraq, and not one Democrat seems to recall we haven't had an attack in our country since 9-11.

Anonymous gay sex in bathrooms, I remind you, was for no charge. Barney Frank was doing for money. 

39 WTF are you talking about dipshit.  Troop readiness was horrible under Clinton, did you not read what the hell I posted earlier.  At least under Bush, we got targets that we could shoot.

Yes, I'm quite aware of what Iraqi electrical output was before the invasion.  It is true that Baghdad is getting less electricity than when Saddam was in power.  However, under Saddam nearly all the electricity went to Baghdad.  Since Saddam's fall electricity has been distributed throughout the country more evenly.

So people who got 0 before are getting more than they ever had. 

I would give you a dollar to buy yourself a clue, but you would have no idea where to begin looking.

You accuse me of not having any accurate sources for anything I say.  I have provided one link and provided first-hand experience.  What have you provided?  Not a damn thing. 

Please do all of us a favor and abort all of your offspring.

40

tubino, you're a pussy. Guess I'll come back with sources for those who can't use google.

I was there when Clinton did his best to weaken the military he despised.  Your concern for the troops, although insincere, is touching.  Clinton gave us Mogadishu, mission creep, and no fucking resources for what that pussy ordered done.  You want to suck his dick go ahead.  Wipe your face afterwards, dick smoker.

41 Well, if the unsustainable troop thing is true, then it is time to get out of countries we no longer need to be in.  Read Germany, Kosovo, Japan, England, Italy, etc. and we will have plenty of troops.

OMG we can't sustain 160k troops per year in Iraq is total bs.  One remedy, keep them there until the job is done.  Trust me, you get some 0-5s and below stuck somewhere, they will become more creative in winning instead of trying not to make a mistake in the current officer culture of "zero-mistake" cautionality that we currently have. 

Tubino, if troop levels are really your concern, why don't you enlist.  We could always you some people like you to fill up sandbags.

42 I was really hoping that trolldouche would come back.

When I left the Army 2 years ago, there were 450k active duty troops.  This does not count National Guard, USAR, AF, AF Reserve, Navy, Navy Reserve, USMC, USMC Reserve.....just active duty Army.

If the troop levels are unsustainable it is because of regulations....not volunteers.

43 Unforrunately, Republicans in oriface are general retards.  They may give the Democrats what they need in order to assure Republican defeat.

44 Yeah, I wish it'd been me instead of Monica; so what?

45 "former republican:  are you aware of statistics, published regularly in mainstream outlets, of measures like electricity and water production?

Do you know where the latest ones are in relation to Iraq prior to invasion?"

In other words, "would you please go do my homework for me, and hopefully find something that will cover my ass?"

46 #44..well, put on a pretty new blue dress, buy a couple cigars and go a'courtin.  I'm sure Hillary's busy doing something else....not that she's any competition anyway.


(and yes, I know you're a spoof on turbino)

47 Is there one among you who understand that the US is borrowing hundreds of billions from China

I guess the PRC has more faith in the USA's future and belief in its missions than you do eh?  I give a lot of credence to people who vote with their cash.

48 On the progress rebuilding Iraq, you might look at:

http://www.grd.usace.army.mil/

Click on "Reconstruction Fact Sheets" on the left.

But since it's from the Army Corps of Engineers, and not Keith Hernandez and Clyde Frazier's newest "Just For Men" buddy, perhaps it's not reliable.

49

U.S. really pisses China off = 10 pairs of panties pissed in NYT boardroom.

China really pisses U.S. off = 100 million Chinese out of work, totally pissed, and tearing fucking country apart.

Deal, mofo.

50 Here's something recent on troop strength.
http://www.nctimes.com/articles/2007/09/01/military/18_16_528_31_07.txt

But the same story about mil chiefs telling Bush about troop strength was printed 1000 places. If you can dodge all that, you've got powerful blinders.

Or you can read George Packer's recent piece:
http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2007/09/17/070917fa_fact_packer

"Currently, there are a hundred and sixty thousand troops in Iraq. The natural life of the surge will end in 2008, when the brigades sent earlier this year will finish their fifteen-month tours and return home. After that, it will become virtually impossible to maintain current troop levels—at least, for an Administration that has shown no willingness to disturb the lives of large numbers of Americans in order to wage the war. Young officers are leaving the Army at alarming rates, and, if the deployments of troops who have already served two or three tours are extended from fifteen to eighteen months, the Pentagon fears that the ensuing attrition might wreck the Army for a generation. Activating the National Guard or the reserves for longer periods could cause the bottom to fall out of public support for the war. Beyond these measures, there are simply no more troops available."

"According to a Pentagon consultant, a strategic-planning cell of colonels serving under the Army chief of staff, General George Casey, has estimated that the number of soldiers and marines who can be kept in Iraq into 2009 will be, at maximum, a hundred and thirty thousand."

You can pretent 130K isn't less than 160K. Or you can believe in unicorns and magic ponies and limitless troops, stick your fingers in your ears and sing I CAN'T HEAR YOU at the top of your lungs.  But it still won't change reality, which is that the number of US troops in Iraq will be lowered next year, no matter what happens politically.

As for what Bush has done substantively to the military, you can look at the morale (very low and dropping), Walter Reed, PTSD, traumatic brain injuries, refusal to provide medical care for mental and physical problems, or you can look at the scandalous lack of planning to provide and replace equipment, or you can look at the incredibly corrupt practices in contracting outsourcing, costing us and the Iraqis billions and billions of dollars...

51 Not one of you explains how you reconcile the refugee numbers with your other claims -- because you can't.

Troop readiness?  Read this and WEEP:
http://www.americanprogress.org/issues/2007/03/readiness_report.html


If you can't handle the analysis of troop strength, try something like this:

– An Army survey revealed that soldiers are 50 percent more likely to suffer from post-traumatic stress disorder if they serve more than one tour.

– The suicide rate among troops deployed to Iraq hit an all-time high in 2006

Oh, and still no facts from you BS'ers about US mil strength. former repub just blows smoke out his ass.  If you've got a shred of integrity, read that link above, or this PDF (http://www.americanprogress.org/issues/2007/03/pdf/readiness_report.pdf), and keep in mind what has happened since that was issued in the spring.

I'm bloody sick of this head-in-the-sand shallow patriotism that's too timid to face the facts.  The comments above are full of it, and the toll it has taken on our nation is immeasurable.

52 LeAnn opined "In other words, "would you please go do my homework for me, and hopefully find something that will cover my ass?""

Here you go, silly girl:

http://www.tomdispatch.com/post/174815/the_numbers_surge_in_iraq

Note as you scroll down that the statistics are all sourced.  Hopefully you will find something that cover your shamed face.  This occupation to protect the pride and ego of cowardly foolish "patriots" is causing anguish, malnutrition in kids, record suicide rates among troops, over four MILLION (internal displaced + leaving Iraq) refugees leaving due to attacks, kidnappings, ethnic cleansing (former republican thinks it's cute to compare them to Mexicans -- a shameful comparison).  Can you imagine having to leave your country with your family because of the violence unleashed through occupation by a foreign military?  And you dare compare that to economic immigration?  Have you NO SHAME???

Percentage of Iraqis now living on less than $1 a day, according to the UN: 54%.

Iraq's per-capita annual income: $3,600 in 1980; $860 in 2001 (after a decade of UN sanctions); $530 at the end of 2003, according to Asia Times correspondent Pepe Escobar, who estimates that the number may now have fallen below $400. Unemployment in Iraq is at around 60%.

Percentage of Iraqis who do not have regular access to clean water: 70%, according to the World Health Organization. (80% "lack effective sanitation.")

Rate of chronic child malnutrition: 21%, according to the World Health Organization. (Rates of child malnutrition had already nearly doubled by 2004, only 20 months after the U.S. invasion.) According to UNICEF, "about one in 10 children under five in Iraq are underweight."

----------------

53

Lighten up, Francis.

54

Hey Tubbs, you would think that because of all the 'disasters' you cite, that military reenlistments and retention would really be suffering.

Well, you would be wrong.

As far as the number of troops in 2009, you seem to now be arguing for more troops and to extend their time in country when you cite the following:

"According to a Pentagon consultant, a strategic-planning cell of colonels serving under the Army chief of staff, General George Casey, has estimated that the number of soldiers and marines who can be kept in Iraq into 2009 will be, at maximum, a hundred and thirty thousand."

 

55

Predictably, cranky thinks that 130K is more than 160K. 

But here's the best up-is-down quote of the day, from mikeyslaw:

How are we weakening our country by being in Iraq? Last I heard, our economy was still kicking ass and taking names. AQ has its hands full in Iraq, and not one Democrat seems to recall we haven't had an attack in our country since 9-11.

Nice job forgetting the anthrax. Mil estimates of AQ are higher than ever, with techniques learned in Iraq being exported worldwide, = opposite of tied down.  Anyway, here's your ass-kicking economy, with 50% chance of recession:

Although the unemployment rate held steady at 4.6 percent, the percentage of adults with jobs fell to 62.8, from 63 percent in July and a peak of 63.4 percent in December. The number of people who were neither working nor looking for work, and therefore were not classified as employed or unemployed, rose by almost 600,000 in August.

“That’s a sign of economic weakness,” said Scott Anderson, a senior economist at Wells Fargo. “Perhaps people just gave up trying to find jobs.”

The number of people with part-time jobs who said they would prefer to work full time has also been rising in recent months. In August, the Labor Department classified 4.5 million workers as “part time for economic reasons,” up from 4.3 million in July.

 

56 Still no one stepping forward to explain how US victory comes about with 4 million displaced Iraqis...

57 Republican suckers are gonna make it happen, there's absolutely no question. Once again McCain, Bush, and other assorted marks are gonna get haunted by the "spirit of bipartisanship."

Watch . . . just f***ing watch: Ted Kennedy and Harry Reid are going to be riding in the first car in the motherf***ing victory parade. Watch . . .

I'm already livid about it.

58 Still no one stepping forward to explain how US victory comes about with 4 million displaced Iraqis...

Posted by: tubino

Tubino,

US victory means Iraq is a stable strategic ally of the United States.  Recent events suggest that such an outcome is likely.  If those 4 million displaced Iraqis return to their homeland and aid in its recovery from despotism and war, well fine.  If they stay away and do not interfere with that recovery, also fine.

You seem hell bent on focusing only on the negative and the tactical.  Statistics about electricity and water are not very useful in this context.  Security and the sense of security are paramount in Iraq.  The surge is working in large part because US and Iraqi forces are staying in cleared cities and villages and are helping the locals to recover.  The locals respond well when they see we are no longer clearing and leaving.  They rat out bad guys and spread the sense of success and a better future.  That sense then propels the actual construction of such a future.

You may be interested in this: one of the biggest items in high demand in Iraq since the surge has been, wait for it, glass.  Glass?  Big deal, you may say, who cares about glass?  Glass is important because it is fragile and it is useful only to those people who expect it to not be broken.  People like Iraqis who have experienced the surge.

 

 

59

Tubbs, for an indicator of morale take a peek at the reenlistment rates.  And pay particular attention to first-term reenlistment rates.  It was at the link I provided earlier.  You'll probably really enjoy reading about the reenlistment rates for units currently in Iraq.

Your source cites an annoymous Pentagon consultant who "states" what some other group reported to General Casey on the max number of soldiers and Marines who could be in Iraq in 2009.  I would be interested in knowing who the consultant is and if he was privy to the report or is just taking a wild ass guess regarding what some other group may or may not have said.  Please remember that the Navy and Air Force also make up part of the 160,000 that are there now.  If the number of troops in Iraq in 2009 falls, perhaps it is because of the success of the COIN tactics being employed by General Petraeus.

Please clarify your insistent point of how the U.S. could win with 4 million displaced Iraqis.  If there are 4 million less Iraqis in Iraq does that mean the U.S. cannot win?

One more question for you Tubbs:  do you want the United States to lose, or to win?  A simple 'yes' or 'no' answer.  You shouldn't have any trouble with that requirement, should you?

60

Predictably, cranky thinks that 130K is more than 160K.

Tubbs, after I retired from the service I went to school and got my BS in Accounting.  Accountants, like almost everyone else know that 2 + 2 = 4.  But we also always ask that if you have 2 + 2 what number would you like the answer to be.

Another question for you:  you said there's a 50 percent chance of a recession,  does that mean there's a 50 percent chance there won't be a recession?

61

   Anyway, here's your ass-kicking economy, with 50% chance of recession:

Oh noes, the skies falling, the NYT's is talking down the economy! The rich are getting richer....the poor are getting poorer....only a Democrat can save the day, right tubs?

Because the media has been so fair in its reportage about the economy with Bush in the White House.

 

62

Me and Osama want the the freedom fighters to win in Iraq.

 

Ssincerely,

Tubino 

63

Tubino your a douchebag. You are on a military blog spouting left wing talking points did you get confused on your way to Kos? The only thing missing from your rambling about how much everything sucks is your not blaming it on the hated  "Bush" in name in every post. Funny to hear you talk about military morale what unit you in that has low morale I would like to know?

64 Worst economy ever!  Impeach Bush!  (No, I'm not Bob Munck, but we share the same brain.  I'm using it right now.  He gets it every other weekend and for two weeks at Christmas.)

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