1
And how many of those dots should be blue? That's the stat I'd like to see.

2 Darling, I love you, but give me Park Avenue!

3

Come on now!  Those grow-ops qualify for government subsidies!

 

4 Is anyone here really surprised by this? I know I'm not.

5 Do those dots represent community gardens. You might not believe this but NYC residents grow a lot of fruits and vegetables in a very limited space.
In fact in my very small backyard I grow tomatoes, figs, peppers, zuccini, squash, basil, parsley, etc. So I don't think that giving NY'ers money for farm assistence is such a stretch. I would have to know more about this to have an
opinion.

6 Funny. Central Park is the only green area in Manhattan, and has no red blobs. I would think the guys who tend to Central Park would qualify.

7 As long as you can get John Cougar Mellencamp to sing for them, the subsidies stay.

8

McLovin -

I grow tomatoes, peppers, squash, basil, and parsley in my humble Dallas garden too.

Where do I sign up for my quarter million dollar subsidy? (Do you know how much the water alone costs to grow tomatoes in Dallas in August???)

For a quarter Mil, I'm even willing to let my neighbor help me weed, so that it meets your community garden standard.

9 Darn! I was guessing subsidized dog fighting.

10 I have a small garden in the backyard, as well.  Tomatoes, peppers, basil, green beans, lettuce and peas.

Where's my money?

11 Farmer Lokki,

It is not clear how much financial assistance each red dot equals, so I can't
make a judgement if this is a boondoggle or just another government program that  NY'ers are taking advantage of..

12 I have two heirloom tomato plants in pots on my deck (courtesy of Lauraw).

GIMME MY CASH!

13 Slublog,

The fact that the government does things with our money that would seem crazy is nothing new. Find the program and sign up.

14 The fact that the government does things with our money that would seem crazy is nothing new. Find the program and sign up.

No, but it's always good to point out when it happens.

As for seeking the funding, there's no way in hell.  That damned conscience of mine gets in the way of me doing stuff like that.

15 Check the last issue of National Review for an article on farm subsidies and how the subsidies distort market prices.  I suspect most of those red dots are receiving money to not grow things therefore keeping the prices consumers pay higher. 

16

Belly up to the trough, then, eh?

It's not like seeds and potting soil are so ridiculously cheap that any crackhead could afford a few pots of vegetables.

17 More information on subsidies as pork, and Congress' refusal to reform the system, here.

18 Slublog,

I agree with you. I would never sign up for such a program, but there are many
people who live in NYC that do in fact grow a great many fruits and vegetables
and use this to make a living. I would need to know more about this program in order to give it a yay or nay.

19 I think there was a reason, ages ago, to pay farmers for not growing stuff. What exactly is the current reasoning? They will start growing stuff if we stop the payments? I double dare them to get the hoe out and get to work.

20 Many of those red dots are public gardens in my neighborhood.

21 I agree with you. I would never sign up for such a program, but there are many people who live in NYC that do in fact grow a great many fruits and vegetablesand use this to make a living. I would need to know more about this program in order to give it a yay or nay.

I understand that, but many people manage to make a living without being assisted by the federal government.  There is a farmer in the area who sets up a small stand in season and according to the farm subsidy database, receives no federal assistance to survive. 

22

>>but there are many
people who live in NYC that do in fact grow a great many fruits and vegetables
and use this to make a living.

McLovin, do you live anywhere near NYC? It is a ridiculous notion that anyone in NYC, and especially Manhattan, makes a living by growing and selling fruits and vegetables.

Also, to get the subsidies that are given out for not growing stuff, you have to possess land that you let lie fallow. Show me a guy who has an acre of fallow land in Manhattan, and I will show you a billionaire.

23

Dude, have you people ever tried running a corn farm in Manhattan????

I didn't think so. It's hard! Nearly impossible to make a living forming corn in a condominium. They have associations that look down upon these things.

You need subsidies or else it just wouldn't be possible!

And without indoor greenhouse farms, how would Manhattanites get locally produced starfruit so they could avoid the large eco-hateful earth destroying footprint of transporting unneccessary food diversity from Tahiti?

Al Gore's carbon credits only cost $400.00 for a reason you know! Because the government pays for the rest of it.

If rich people had to pay for all this shit like this, they wouldn't be rich anymore! Then who the hell would lead you?

24

Community gardens qualify for a farm subsidy?  C'mon, that's ridiculous.   I can't believe this is anything other than pork.  And people defend this?  Yeah, keep stuffing 15 lbs of sh*t in a 10 lb bag.

25

When I saw the post's headline, I thought it might be the location of backyard BBQ's, where the rising smoke from slabs of juicy pork ribs was causing global warming and offending Muslims at the same time.

26

>>Community gardens qualify for a farm subsidy?

AFAIK, they don't. To qualify for a quarter mil farm subsidy, you must have hundreds or atleast dozens of acres. So all these Manhattanites probably have huge tracts of useless land somewhere in Arizona or Wyoming and are getting paid to ignore that land.

27 Tushar D,

I live in Queens, and you would be suprised at how much you can grow in a very limited space. Am I saying that they make their sole living off of growing fruits and vegatbles, no. But their
are people who augment their income by doing this.

I would have to know how much of a subsidy NY'ers are getting to know if this is a boondoggle or not. If we are talking about a couple of mil. then that is not something I would get too upset about.

28 If we are talking about a couple of mil. then that is not something I would get too upset about.

Well, I would. 

Since it's my money and all.

But I'm funny like that.

29

I think there was a reason, ages ago, to pay farmers for not growing stuff. What exactly is the current reasoning?

 

Still the same as it was back then:  limit supply with quotas to keep the prices high enough to maintain the industry.

30

But their are people who augment their income by doing this.

What the hell is your point?

They augment their income by growing fruits and vegetables

therefor

The government should give them farm subsidies......why?

If it's augmenting their income why the hell do they need a subsidy?

31 What is so surprising about this?  These people are obviously being paid not to grow things and, living in Manhattan, they are simply keeping up their end of the bargain by not growing anything. 

And if you're not going to grow anything, why the hell would you stay on a farm?

See, it all makes sense!

32

McLovin,

I am almost certain that the land which gets these quarter mill subsidies is hundreds of miles away from Manhattan.

They don't give out subsidies for terrace gardens!!!!!

Sure, you can grow cherry tomatoes on your roof and earn a few hundred bucks by branding them as carbon-neutral and selling them at $20 a pound to gullibliberals*, but you won't see a penny of farm subsidy on it.

* Hey! I invented a new word!

33

Many of those red dots are public gardens in my neighborhood.

Care to back that statement up?

34 I think Tushar nailed it in #26.  Might the dots be where the checks are mailed?  Perhaps these people own land outside of Manhattan?

I should look into seeing how much farm subsidy money I can get from the 20 acres I own in WVa.

35

Mikey,

I was wondering whether I shoudl buy some farmland somewhere. What is the going per acre rate in W VA near your land? And how big is a typical parcel of land?

36

Fuckin A.

I am so goddamn sick of not taking other people's money.

My integrity and $1.25 will buy me a cup of coffee.

37 Entropy,

My point is that the government allows for farm subsidys, who should get them? If NY'ers qualify under the rules set forth by congress, so be it.

38 So there's this traveling salesman whose car breaks down on Park Av. between 75th and 76th, and he says to the farmer's daughter...

39

Yeah, OK, I just went to the link...d'oh.

It's pretty obvious this has nothing to do with community gardens and everything to do with rich manhattanites who get paid to not farm land they own elsewhere.

It is good to have the government providing welfare to wealthy landowners.

I would like to declare that I own a plot of land that has lain fallow for several years, but I fully intend to seed it with wheat next Spring and glut the market with my cheap wheat, causing poor dirt-farmers to teeter on the brink of bankruptcy and starvation.

I might be persuaded to abandon this plan, however. I'll just be over here looking at this yacht catalog.

40 Well, shoot, we all been working this land hyar on Central Park South for nigh onto 4 generations an' ain't no way none o' you sumbitches gonna get us offen it, y'hear?

Now git off my land before I pops a cap in yo ass!

41 Lauraw,

The fact that the government is giving out money should not be suprising. The article doesn't even begin to outline if this an abuse. We have no idea under what conditions the money is being given out. Let's not go gettin' all knee jerky when it comes to NY.

42

There are very few forms of welfare that I approve of. That's the knee-jerky part. NYC is only secondary to the point; people who are living on some of the most expensive real estate in the world do not need my tax money.

43 It isn't just NYC - there have been stories over the years of rich people (Scottie Pippen, Sam Donaldson) getting agricultural subsidies.

These stories, and many of the comments you see here, McLovin, reflect the desire of conservatives/Republicans to reduce welfare, whether it's for corporations, rich people, or able-bodied less wealthy individuals.

Consistency, you see?

Meanwhile, the only thing I consistently expect out of you is an obtuse response to everyone else's comments.

44 Wean people off farm subsidies and let the free market do its work.  It will be painful, but eventually necessary.

Of course, the entire state I live in (Iowa) would march on DC with pitchforks and torches, but what are you going to do?

On another note, I was driving down the highway yesterday and saw a huge banner hanging from an overpass that said "RON PAUL REVOLUTION!!!!"  Creepy.

45

Farms now aren't farms like they used to be when subsidies came into being.

I'm felloing cornholed (pun intended) by the ethanol farce and subsequent monstrous inflation we are now starting to see from it. And this too?

I know of several scam artists here in the Sacramnento area who get rice subsidies. They have no intention of growing rice but their land meets the 2 reauired crieteria. Flat and flat

46

>>the entire state I live in (Iowa) would march on DC with pitchforks and torches,

Feh! Iowa has 2 senators, 5 congressmen and 4 electoral college delegates. Fcuk them.

47 Michaelt,

Obtuse? How about measured and not knee jerk? If your saying the government should not be willy nilly with our money, I am with you! The fact of the mater is that we have no idea from the article weather this is an abuse or not. I know the default positon is to be against NY, after all were all rich and stuff, but
could we keep the attacks based on facts and not perceptions about what NY'ers should get in terms of subsidys. After all we give far more to the federal governmanet than we recieve.

48 Tushar, I purchased 20 acres on the southern end of a mountaintop within 2 hrs of DC.  It's not technically farmland although they used to farm trees for paper there.  Maybe I could get Senator Byrd to help.  He already built the "road to nowhere" almost to the foot of the mt. I'm on so it's not so bad a drive from DC.

I'm not sure what valley farmland near me is going for.  My cost was for the view and the proximity to DC.  Lots in my area are from 20-110 acres and depending on elevation and slope, go from 6-11k per acre.  My concern with the valley near me was the flood potential.  Good luck!

49

After all we give far more to the federal governmanet than we recieve.

Heh - I make less than $50,000 a year and give far more to the federal government than I receive, too.  Small world.

50 The San Joaquin valley is full of ag-subsidy scammers, especially the dairy farmers (at least, when I was living there in the 70s-80s. probably hasn't changed much). It's pretty obvious when you see a prominent dairy farmer on TV talking about subsidies being necessary to prevent the demise of the family farmer, but his son (who's in your high school class) drives a new, customized pickup truck every year, he has new ATVs, dune buggys for off-roading at Pismo Beach, and takes two weeks off from high school every year for a ski vacation at the family cabin at Shaver Lake in the Sierras.

51 At least that explains all th John Deer caps I see on central park west.

52

Thanks, Mikey.

4 years ago, when I was living in DC, W VA would have been a good idea. Now I am in NJ. I guess I will be better off with something in PA.

53

McLovin, how about no subsidies for farmers and landowners who have no intention of actually farming?  They are merely used to guarantee a minimum price will be paid to the farmers for crops or to restrict supplies and keep prices high.  Why should your money be transferred to them?  Why do you want to pay more for a farm product than the price an open, unsubsidized market would demand?  Think in terms of your economic rational self-interest.

54 Editor,

I can't quite figure out what your point is? Do you have one?

55 Cranky,

I agree with you, but there is no indication from the article who exactly is recieving the funds and for what purpose the money is being used. The fact that people are taking advantage of a program that was set up by congress should not be a shock to anyone.

56 Farm subsdies, eh?  That must explain why so much of Manhattan smells like manure.

57 Feh! Iowa has 2 senators, 5 congressmen and 4 electoral college delegates. Fcuk them.

Well yeah, except it extends to the entire farm belt, so it would be a lot of states.  Plus the media would trot out story after story about Farmer X put out of work and living on the streets thanks to Politician Y who wants to end farm subsidies.  It's worse than SS...I can't see anyone really ever getting rid of it.

58 54 Editor,

I can't quite figure out what your point is? Do you have one?   Exactly - what was your point?

59

The fact of the mater is that we have no idea from the article weather this is an abuse or not.

Of course we do.

They're giving farm subsidies to people who live in Manhattan.

Bullshit.

You tell me 1 plausible reason why I should be paying for people in Manhattan to not grow food I don't eat.

60 I do have a problem with ag spending by the federal government anyway, but we should be careful: professors working on agricultural projects and studies might live in Manhattan so this might not simply be graft or corruption, it might be genuine spending on agricultural themes.

Might.

61 Actually I thought the dots indicated everywhere some hirsuit feminist has performed "The Vanginal Monologues".

62

McLovin will support her own badly flawed argument to the death because it is better than admitting she might be wrong.

Just a hint; you can't 'agree' with cranky's comment above and then still write the rest of that first sentence in #55.

The two ideas are mutually exclusive.

63

but there is no indication from the article who exactly is recieving the funds and for what purpose the money is being used

There is also no plausibly legitimate explanation for same.

It's like you're saying "Yes, the murderers should be put in jail. But just because we found this guy standing over a dead girl with a bloody knife, wearing her entrails as a hat and jibbering about the alignment of Pluto, does not mean he killed her. We haven't heard any indication from him yet of why he might be doing this. We don't know what he was doing yet."

64 Entropy,

Your argument is not with me, but with congress and how it doles out our money. I have no idea what the basis is for giving out his money and neither do you.

65

Being the son of a farmer, and an escapee from a childhood of rural drudgery, I'm pretty much the expert here so you fuckers listen up.

What are New York megarich cocksuckers famous for? Well lots of shit probably, but I'm talking about they're famous for having a summer home in Connecticut or Vermont or New Hampshire or somewhere that doesn't totally suck like NYC. All of these states are always screaming about how the New Yorkers are fuckin' up their pristine little states. So what do summer homes usually have? Adjoining property, duh!! So you're a rich New York cocksucker and you buy a quarter of a section of productive farmland in New Hampshire or somewhere and you build you a simple yet charming 8000 square foot country home complete with pool, hot tub, steam sauna, and a putting green. Are you gonna farm the other 155 acres? Fuck no. How fucking bourgoise would that be? So you discover that Uncle Sugar will pay you for taking valuable farmland out of production and allowing it to lay fallow. Do you think this rich fuck will bother to get his lawyer to fill out the paperwork so he can take the money? Damned straight, how do you think he go rich in the first place? So a program that was originally designed to help small farmers make ends meet while they let their land rest, ends up putting money in the pocket of some greaseball who never had any intention of growing anything anyway?

True story. Got a friend whose uncle is a ranch foreman on a place up near Pagosa Springs, Colorado. My buddy hunts and fishes the shit out of it every fall. It's six sections of Rocky Mountain beauty. Guess who owns it? 1) A native Colorada rancher who  is struggling to keep the bankers from foreclosing? Fuck No! 2) A rancher from Texas who needed some summer pasture for his herd? Get the fuck out! 3) A rich NY lawyer (probably consigliere) who only shows up about two weeks out of the year to ski and doesn't bother to even try to make an honest dollar from it. No livestock, no logging, no hunting licenses, nothing. DING DING DING!!

But I'll betcha my boots that he's one of those red dots on the map.

 

66 This can be solved by changing the rules to say that the farmer must live and pay income taxes in the same county where his subsidy generating farm exists.

67

Actually I thought the dots indicated everywhere some hirsuit feminist has performed "The Vanginal Monologues".

That, too.  For some reason, the dots indicate both.

I'm getting a $20,000,000 government grant to determine why.

68

I have no idea what the basis is for giving out his money and neither do you.

So if'n there's one thing and only one thing you know about how congress spends my mine, it's that everyone on the world is as ignorant of it as you are?

That's what your sure of?

'I have no clue what's going on here, but I know you don't know either.'

Mmmmhmm.

69 Entropy,
The only thing I am 100% positive about is that you are a dick!

70 Looks kinda like a tenderloin, actually. Mmmm... pork.

71

Yes, it was very rude of Entropy to point out that you are doggedly pursuing a non-argument as if you have some kind of point.

BAD ENTROPY.

72 I would argue that some of this money may be - presuming congress has any constitutional power to spend money on agriculture in the first place - properly spent. Living in Manhattan does not mean you cannot own a farm somewhere, nor does it mean you are prohibited from being a lab researcher working on, say, better pesticides or a study on farming history in the US.

The mere fact that these people live in Manhattan does not mean the money is misspent or being spent on people who have nothing to do with Agriculture.

However, I'd argue that the federal government is breaking the law and violating the constitution by sending any such money anywhere.

73 in some cases, people that live in the cities also own land in rural areas and receive farm subsidies for the land.

74

Chris Taylor, it is a sham.

Look -

Farm subsidies were created to protect farmers who no longer exist from natural market forces that otherwise might have benefitted consumers. These subsidies failed to freeze time in place and changes happened anyway, and now these subsidies are actually blatantly counterproductive to their own stated goal. They now give millions and millions and millions of dollars (they give the MOST free money) to the guys who are the richest! The rich farmers with lots of land and the huge agribusinesses. They get most of the subsidies since they have most of the land. The little guy (if he still exists at all) doesn't get nearly as much, and it makes it HARDER for him to compete instead of easier.

Now, everyone who looks closely at this business knows this. But the reason these subsidies exist today, is corrupt. Agribusiness has a huge powerful lobby, and politicians have friends and buddies and political donors they want to sleep around in bed with because they're whores and it's what they do.

ALL farm subsidies are corrupt pork, whether the farm subsidy system is being cheated or gamed or not. The wholy system is just a giant game, even when people don't cheat (if there's even anyone who doesn't).

It's pork.

Even if it's funding agricultural research - researching what???

We pay people not to grow things!! What the hell would the point of researching pesticides and improved land use techniques that would allow us to grow more food on less land?

So that we can pay for more food per square acre to not get grown on even more land not growing food? Is he trying to make the food cheaper? OK, well, isn't the whole effect of the farm subsidies, and their original (and supposed) justification that we need the food to be artificially scarce so it stays expensive enough? Or it would be TOO cheap?

We're supposed to governmentally fund this researcher trying to discover ways to grow more food cheaper on less land???? WHY?!?!

The whole point of the subsidies is that we have TOO MUCH food and it is TOO CHEAP. The problem the government faces is that the food isn't expensive enough, so why fund people to research how to make it cheaper?

This is like hiring researchers to study how to make health care more expensive and less effective.

I guess, when you add that professors salary to the real cost of corn, it does indeed accomplish what it's meant to.

It's meant to fuck me twice and pad the pockets of Robert Byrd's favorite donor. I'm PAYING the government to keep the cost of the food I buy UP. I'm paying them for the service of making the things I need more expensive.

75

<blockquote>I would argue that some of this money may be - presuming congress has any constitutional power to spend money on agriculture in the first place - properly spent.</blockquote>

 

Kindly point me to that section of the Constitution.

76

Hey I just thought of something else. The USDA funds the free lunch program for public schools. This may just be a map of all the public schools in Manhattan that have kids on free and reduced lunch. It wouldn't take a whole lot of schoolkids to run up a grocery bill of $250k+ for a year.

OK I'm just bullshittin'. It's definitely pork for the wealthy.

77

Kindly point me to that section of the Constitution.

I think it might be under an interstate trade-related court decision, that gives congress the power over who/what/how it is grown.

_{(I suck at court cases' names, but i think it is one of the big ones)}

78 Even if it's funding agricultural research - researching what???

Better farming techniques, superior pesticides, genetic engineering, etc. Universities hire people who live in Manhattan too. I'm not saying this money is valid, I'm just saying it's possible that it could be at least in part. The map doesnt tell us enough in and of it's self.

Kindly point me to that section of the Constitution.

I can't which I pointed out later, I was just making the argument that, were it constitutional some of this spending might be Kosher. But it's not.

79 I remember reading long ago and far away (probably 10 years ago) of the subsidies paid to that slicked haired guy who happens to own some ranchland in New Mexico.

I was properly shocked and amazed at that time.

We all know him as farmer Sam Donaldson.

80 Hey, there are a lot of Chinese restaurants in NYC!  You need a lot of rat farms to supply them with "beef", "chicken", and "pork".

81

Better farming techniques, superior pesticides, genetic engineering, etc.

Just like I said.

The problem is, please don't say we're subsidizing some people to increase the price of corn, and subsidizing other people to decrease the price of corn, and claim this "justified".

We pay the farmers to not grow the food so it stays expensive, and simultaneously pay researchers to research ways to not grow food cheaper so we will have to pay the farmers more to not grow it.

82

My integrity and $1.25 will buy me a cup of coffee

So integrity is worth $4.50 at Starbucks?

Who knew?.

83 StickyB is right. These asshole own some land in the Poconos. Proably 3-20 acres. They register their cars here for the cheaper insurance too. Usually get a P.O. box (for the cheaper income taxes). Then the pricks create a "land trust" whereas they promise to never subdivide/build other houses  on said land. They can put additions  onto it all they want. They usually put up a pole barn for boats, jets skis, snowmobiles, 8 quads to tresspass on neighboring propeties (don't get me started on that topic) and cars they can't afford to park in N.Y. This makes everything but the footprint of the property, including man-made ponds, tax free. This is OK/encouraged by the Pa. tax code. And since they are "preserving land" that is either too rocky or marshy to build on, they get to feel all warm about saving land they didn't already fuck up. Throw in some cash for not farming the useless part of the property you have left, and you have an Amerikan dream right there folks.

84 Sure the whole farm subsidy system is a pile of crap and we have to take a bite literally every day. It should have been ended long ago, but it's partly how the Republican party won several elections in a row back in the early 20th century. Now it's entrenched part of the way things are done and nobody can imagine changing it.

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