Whoa: WTO Supports Antigua's Claim Against US That Ban On Online Gambling Violates Free Trade Agreements

You're kidding me. The WTO is going to wind up giving us back online poker?

You magnificent Trilateral Commission bastards!

Dean wants to know why this isn't a big story on the internet. I wonder that too.

Antigua Demands Right To Piracy In Response: Intellectual property piracy, that is. Antigua claims that if the US is free to to violate their (asserted) right to free competition for US entertainment (gambling) dollars, Antigua should be unburdened from abiding by US intellectual property laws.

Thanks to someone.

Posted by: Ace at 06:29 PM

Comments

1 You realize that Antigua wants to be allowed to commit total piracy in retaliation, right?

Posted by: someone at August 26, 2007 06:34 PM (LS1TS)

Washington responded to Antigua’s complaint by claiming it was within its rights to seek to block online gambling on moral grounds, just as any Muslim country would be within its rights under international trade agreements to ban the import of alcoholic beverages. The W.T.O. rejected this argument as inconsistent with American policy. Link

Wow. Just....

wow.

This position is so absurd as to be offensive given all the state-run lotteries and online horsetrack wagering that goes on in the US with the full sanction of its government.

And the Muslim shit? Yeah, let's play that game. If it's good enough for a bunch of theocratic shithole societies, it's good enough for us!

Fucking ridiculous.

Posted by: Warden at August 26, 2007 07:01 PM (4H3hL)

3 block online gambling on moral grounds

This is a completely lame excuse. I'm shocked they'd even offer it its so lame.

For it to have any cred at all, it would require the Feds to ban all that "immoral" state sponsored gambling like lotteries, horse/dog tracks, casinos, etc.

Posted by: Purple Avenger at August 26, 2007 07:08 PM (5KwlV)

4 I'll be happy to start gambling online again when it's legal.
Yeah, Antigua!

Posted by: Nom de Blog at August 26, 2007 07:15 PM (EkG0f)

You know, corruption is only corruption if it isn't supervised? Maybe "internal" corruption, like in sports could be corrected if the managers excercised "internal" oversight. Why shouldn't people gamble? It's their money, and a well trained craps player only has a .987 comparisson to the house, and while the "market" is better than that (though those in the know get the best rates, that is one truth to the two america's) but not much for general investment.

Why shouldn't people be allowed to put their chips down and take the risk. At least in well regulated gambling it's an honest game.

How many people who were caught up in the fraud of enron got their money back? NONE, worldcomm? NONE! At least in the game, you KNOW you will lose your money.

I'm just saying. </libertarian>

I'm not a poker or blackjack or roulette guy, those are sucker games trying to get rich.

Craps is communal and fun as all shit, I LITTERALY! stood at a craps table for about 12 hours, held the dice once, and only threw 4 times, it was EXCITING, and I won a fair bit of money, gave 100 buck tips, and not into the bra's of servicegirls, but rather daintily placed the chips on the tray. Throwing 10 buck chips to the assistints, and even throwing my first 20 buck chip at the pit boss, as in actually throw.

It was fun as all shit, when I was winning, and the only reason I was winning? Is because I wanted to lose.

I wanted to play the game, I saw my 50 bucks starting, that turned into more, I would say much more, but I can't remember the various trades I had with other players, into at least a thousand, if not in truth (cuz of crazy tips) much more than a thousand bucks. All I wanted to do was walk out, have a couple beers and dinner, and I ended up spending about 20 hours floating around vegas.

Gambling is life, simply have a good standard to keep the game honest, as long as the game is honest, let the people play.

Posted by: Wickedpinto at August 26, 2007 07:18 PM (QTv8u)

OH! I left this out, sorry,

For the most part people gamble KNOWING they are gonna lose, like the people who visit the carnival arcades, you KNOW you are gonna lose, but you can try, but gambing games actually allow SOMEONE to win. Why are carnival games legal in every state, but non-state sponsored gambling illegial in 46 states? (not including states with "sovereign native nations")

You can't win a carny game, but you CAN get lucky and win at roulette, or at blackjack, or at poker, or at craps.

Why are Carny scam's okay, but honest gaming illegal?

Makes NO sense to me.

Posted by: Wickedpinto at August 26, 2007 07:24 PM (QTv8u)

If Muslims countries chop of heads and hands and clits, why can't we too!?!?!

/Washington

Posted by: DoDoGuRu at August 26, 2007 07:33 PM (72nfo)

8 How many people who were caught up in the fraud of enron got their money back? NONE, worldcomm? NONE!

And at that, their Enron and Worldcomm stock is still worth more than the Social Security Trust Fund.

'Mjusane...

Posted by: Drumwaster at August 26, 2007 07:42 PM (JxTHJ)

You want to know why this isn't a big deal? Because the United States government really doesn't give a shit about its obligations under international trade treaties. President Bush imposed illegal steel tarrifs thinking it would help him win Pennsylvania and Ohio in '04 and the WTO called him on it. The tarrifs were recinded .. a year later.

Then there's the matter of the Clinton and Bush administrations raping Canada with illegal softwood lumber tarrifs, despite being told by both the WTO and the NAFTA arbitration panel that United States was acting illegally. President Bush responded by saying that he looked forward to further negotiations with Canada, which is a lot like O.J Simpson wanting to negotiate with the Goldman family after the $33,5 million dollar verdict against him was handed down.

That's but one of the reasons that I nearly piss my pants laughing when Bush describes himself as a free-trader and respectful of international law and its why I nearly have an embolism of Joy when Americans piss and moan about Chinese and other foreign "unfair trading practices."

As much as the Democrats sicken every molecule of my body, I at least respect them for being honest about not liking free trade very much.

If nothing else, the Bush presidency has decided one of history's great "what if's." Unfortunately, it happens to answer "What if Eugene Debs was elected president?"

Posted by: skippystalin at August 26, 2007 07:46 PM (ZSmqU)

And another thing.

Because WTO membership is the result of a treaty submitted by the President and ratified by the Senate, it has the full force and effect of federal law. Accordingly, anything the Congress passed and the President signed prohibiting Internet gambling is illegal unless and until the U.S signature to the WTO is repealed.

Or maybe not. It's hard to tell without the Supreme Court getting of their asses and deciding <em>Goldwater et all v. Carter, President of the United States.</em>

Posted by: skippystalin at August 26, 2007 08:06 PM (ZSmqU)

11 "Because WTO membership is the result of a treaty submitted by the President and ratified by the Senate, it has the full force and effect of federal law. Accordingly, anything the Congress passed and the President signed prohibiting Internet gambling is illegal unless and until the U.S signature to the WTO is repealed."

Wrong. Treaties only have the legal force of their enabling statute, meaning that their US effect can be unilaterally changed or repealed by subsequent enactment.

Posted by: someone at August 26, 2007 08:33 PM (LS1TS)

12 I really hate to go against my own country here, but we're wrong to impose this ban, it was done in a shady manner to begin with, and it absolutely violates Antigua's or any other WTO members right to trade. The US ought to reverse the ban, and just say they fucked up.

Oh, and I'm from Pennsylvania, and I thought that Steel Tariff was fucking bullshit, it didn't even fucking help him anyway, he lost PA both times! Course, I'm in central PA, not southwestern...

My thoughts are here, if anyones interested. Bill Frist is a stupid fucktard, look at the mess you've caused, Frist, stupid fucking Nanny Stater!

Posted by: sinistar at August 26, 2007 11:14 PM (uk8VC)

13 Let's be honest about what this is all about guys.

It's about Europe and China bankrolling Antigua to get to pirate "legally" US Drugs, Software, and Entertainment. Along with Aerospace and everything else they can think of.

You don't honestly believe that the WTO made this decision based on the merits or would dare make a decision against China or Russia now do you?

China, Russia, Europe, almost ALL nations (Japan too) violate massive amounts of the WTO agreements because they have to in order to placate domestic constituencies or various internal monopolies. So, let's get real here.

What this REALLY presages is a trade war. We are filled with poisonous, dangerous, defective Chinese junk. China for it's part finds US products in some areas dangerous since they'd kill Chinese products. No one really wants to trade freely under the WTO. Add in nationalism and the sure-to-fight it efforts by Microsoft, Apple, Time-Warner, Merck, and Boeing and you have a trade war.

But let's get down to it: this is all about China, Europe, and Russia wanting to pirate our stuff.

Posted by: Jim Rockford at August 27, 2007 12:43 AM (4878o)

14 Then, of course, there's the dreaded Elephant In The Room^TM.

Picking on tiny little Antigua is one thing. But keep in mind that a bunch of the online gambling sites the Feds want to keep away from U.S. consumers are based in places like Gibraltar and the Isle of Man - British territories. Now that the WTO has ruled, will London back them up? If they do, is Washington really willing to go toe-to-toe with its closest ally over something like this? Somehow I doubt it.

Posted by: Joshua at August 27, 2007 01:38 AM (8Qis3)

15 I miss my internet poker, but this issue means less than nothing to the vast majority of the country. This ruling has been expected since the very beginning and now we need to see how it plays out, but Antigua isn't going to get to pirate whatever US intellectual property and patents they want.

Also, to believe Bush hasn't been a free trade president after all the trade agreements signed is to not see the forest for the trees. Just because it's your pet issue doesn't make it so. Canada's been raped? Please. You respect dems for being honest on free trade? They aren't honest at all. They're against it except when they're for it.

Posted by: Patrick H at August 27, 2007 12:49 PM (3qKz4)

16 Signing a trade agreement is a very different thing that living up to the terms of one.

Posted by: skippystalin at August 27, 2007 01:09 PM (ZSmqU)

17 Signing a trade agreement is a very different thing that living up to the terms of one.

And like Ace keeps pointing out, the plural of anecdote isn't data. I don't see 95% compliance as failure. Trade agreements always have disputes, but that doesn't mean the whole thing is a failure. This is an example of why we're the stupid party. Insisting on ideological purity thus making the perfect the enemy of the good. Just like tearing down the Republicans over pork has only benefited the Dems, we continue to eat our own ensuring our own defeat.

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