1

I'd be fine with Rudy, but then I lived in NYC from 1996 til this year.

Definitely, any of the Democratic candidates are more objectionable than him.

2 Wouldn't an all-NY race be a hoot? (Not that Hillary is a real New Yorker, but whatever.) I think Bloomberg would throw his hat in the ring just to make it three New Yorkers running... not that I see anybody voting for him.

3

"Could you live with him as nominee if you had to?"

Yes.  As long as he fulfills his promise to appoint judges in the ilk of Stevens and Alito, then your soical con positions should be preserved as best they can.

4

Romney needs to learn how to get people to refer to his evolving on issues as tacking instead flip flopping. 

5 Rudy all the way.  We need a wop in the White House.

6 Yes.  As long as he fulfills his promise to appoint judges in the ilk of Stevens and Alito,

I am going to guess you meant Roberts and Alito. Because I am not sure what kind of judge would be in the mold of Stevens and Alito. My guess is he or she would be very confused.

Now that I think about it, I guess Sandy O'Connor would fit that description (Stevens on some issues, Alito on others, confused and confusing on all of them)

7

Wouldn't an all-NY race be a hoot?

It would tank in the ratings worse than a Subway World Series.

8 Would I vote for him if he is the nominee? Sure. Will I be happy about it? Meh.

9 Would it help ease the sting if it's kept in mind that Giuliani would likely spank Hillary! Clinton in ways she could only dream her husband would?

Why, yes. Yes it would.

10 Sandy O'Connor preferred complex "balancing tests" of a welter of factors (none of which ranked in terms of priority) which would, when "balanced" according to standards she did not set, yield the answer whether or not the Stevens approach or the Scalia approach was to be favored.

Nuance.

And confusion.

11

Yes, I could live with Giuliani, although he's not my first choice. 

Past behavior -- including charges of flip-flopping* -- is not directly relevant.  A vote for President is not a vote to ratify past actions, but a hope for specific future actions.  Past action serves as a useful guide for future behavior, but is not necessarily a predictor.  So if Giuliani supported (for example) gun control in the past, but promises to keep his hands off guns in the future, his past actions are irrelevant, unless they convince you he's not being honest when making future promises.

So call it tacking, call it flip-flopping, whatever.  If he can convince me he will in the future govern as a conservative, then he's got my vote, and I'll be happy to give it to him.  Same with Romney, same with The Fred.  (Not McCain -- in addition to not believing his promises, I just don't like him much). 

* John Kerry's problem was not so much the statements he made thirty years ago -- although they were disgraceful -- as it was the flip-flops made on the campaign trail.  It wasn't a question of past statements as a predictor of future action, but that his present statements concerning future action were inconsistent, meaning we could not rely on him to fulfill and specific promise.

12 About Hillary! getting the nomination: how fucking stupid are the Dems? Right now the Republican party is fairly fractured and no one really loves the top tier candidates. Rudy alienates a lot of the social-cons enough to make them stay home in 2008.

But with his opponent being Hillary!, there is no way in hell anyone on the Republican side will stay home. Some may even take a page out of the Dem playbook and vote multiple times just to keep her out of the White House.

13 Giuliani would likely spank Hillary! Clinton in ways she could only dream her husband would?

Well, there's goes any hope I had of getting an erection anytime soon.

Thanks!

14 >>Posted by: Sobek at August 14, 2007 04:26 PM (6GK9U)

I agree completely.

I'll tell you one thing, Rudy better keep his wife under wraps if he wants to win. Not only does she have crazy eyes, she appears to be full-fledged batshit nuts.

15

Rudy will implode, whether during the primaries or, god forbid, during the real race with Hillary!  He's a head case and a closet fascist and if he sneaks through all the way to the White House it will not be a Good Thing. 

Fred is the one true hope; Mitt would be competent, and competence can go a long way; Newt is not going to run and doesn't stand a chance anyway (if I got the only vote Newt would have a very good chance of getting it, but there's no way with his negatives that he can even seriously contest the nomination).

I'm also reconciled to Hillary! winning.  I watched a couple of the dem debates.  I don't like her, but she's a professional and she won't screw up.  The rest of the donkey field are midgets.

 

 

16 "Could you live with him as nominee if you had to?"

With Krugman viciously attacking him in a recent oped, I could if only to cause Krugman ulcers.  I live to see Krugman's head explode if Rudy is elected.

17
Giuliani/Huckabee '08?  SecDef Hunter?

I could live with that.

18 she's a professional and she won't screw up.

She's pre-screweded up.  Look at her negative numbers.  You can't win with higher negatives than positives.

19 I hope Fred! works out, but I would def vote for Guiliani over a dhimmicRAT.  The only thing that bothers me about Guiliani at this point, is I saw on the news recently that while he was mayor of NYC - he supposedly invited illegal aliens to come to there, touting NYC as a "sanctuary" city for illegal aliens.  Not cool. especially these days.  I'd like to hear what he has to say about his plans to do something about the illegal invasion. 

20

Could I live with Rudy as the nominee?  Nope, I'll vote 3rd party or stay home instead.  Ditto with Romney.  After 8 years of Bush, I'm not voting for RINOs who are pro-illegal immigrant, pro-big government or pro-gun control.  Newt, Fred, Hunter- they I can vote for.

Also, the CBS poll is bogus- only some 300 people polled, and on a weekend.  I wouldn't put too much stock in it.

21 Oops- wrong poll; more than 300 people.  Still over a weekend though.

22 I will vote for anyone on the Republican side rather than vote for hillary or obama (or any of the dems currently running for that matter).  They are both socialists/fascists - and I really think obama would be in over his head as pres. He'd probably be calling Hugo Chavez for advice.

23 While, I'm still not convinced that being 20 points ahead of a candidate that's not yet declared is that amazing, I could vote for Rudy in the general. Indeed, I will vote for whatever candidate the Republicans nominate, even McCain. (please save me from myself you primary voters)

That's just how we bushbots roll.

24 If there were a Giuliani/Huckabee ticket I would not mind at all voting for him. My reservations, when it comes to social conservatism would be gone all together with Huckabee. Poll after poll shows that he has the best chance of beating hillary, which is very very important. He and McCain even do well on Iraq which is surprising. And he probably would be the most ruthless on terrorism which is also a plus.

25 Sandy O'Connor preferred complex "balancing tests" of a welter of factors (none of which ranked in terms of priority)

Nor of course could they actually be found in the Constitution.

Back to Rudy, I really get excited about him sometimes and then I just remember things (like his immigration stances as Mayor) and it just sucks the air out of the room for me.

I know his actions of mayor may not be a perfect predictor of what he'd do as President (but it is what he's running on after all) but I just have this nagging worry about him. Somehow I am more comfortable with Mitt's outright pandering for some reason. Maybe it's because I  was living in close proximity to NYC during the Giuliani years and saw the good and the bad.

I'd never vote for any of the Dems and would certainly though reluctantly support Rudy (which I guess it's all he cares about in the end). I think the problem is the pros and cons of the guy kind of equal out intellectually and it comes down to a feel thing and I just have this inability to be comfortable with the idea of him as President. 

On the upside, as a New Yorker a Rudy/Hillary! race would be fun because NY would be in play and my vote would be part of a real race for once in this state.

26 Romney.

27 If the choice was Hitler versus Rudy, I would take Hitler.

But only because I prefer Ron Paul.

If not Ron Paul, I'll go for Hillary.

28 I still have Fred! at the top of my personal list, but Guiliani is #2, because as much of a social con as I am, I want a president who will FIGHT this little war we are in -  plus, he pisses off the right people, and promising to appoint judges like Roberts and Alito is the other big thing I want from a president.  Picking a solid conservative VP would also help seal the deal, and being well positioned to win already is nice.

29 Still uncertain about Rudy.  My beef is not the man himself, but his rolodex.  The new president will have to make a couple dozen major appointments and thousands of minor appointments in his first year.  Regardless of what he says, I'm not sure Rudy knows and trusts enough pro-lifers (for example) to staff a conservative administration.  More likely we'll end up with a few symbolic conservatives in prominent public roles, and the upper bureaucracy (where policy gets made) will be filled with NYC apparatchiks.  Not an outcome I welcome, at this point.

Ask again a year from now.

30

I would doubt this poll Hollowpoint if Giuliani hadn't been way ahead in so many other polls.  He might be ahead less, or ahead more, but ahead he is.

Being from Michigan I remember Romney's dad, capable and honest with lots of management experience, so is Mitt.

But I would eat glass for the chance to vote for Giuliani against Hillary.

A vote for a third party is a vote for Hillary.  Nuts to that.

 

 

 

31

26 Romney.

RINO.

Listening to Romney's fanboys tout the fake and meaningless Iowa Straw Poll is no different than listening to Ron Paul cultists tout his showing in some silly Internet poll they rigged.

A week from now it will be completely forgotten.  I doubt Romney will ever break 20 percent in national polls, even with another 10 million of his own money pumped into the race.  I'm still baffled as to why the base hasn't tossed Rudy into the same shitcan they threw McCain in.

32 I'm not convinced that Giuliani can win the hearts of conservatives outside of the north east. I wonder if he can pull in Tennessee, Oklahoma, etc. considering his liberal stands on immigration and abortion.

33

Hollowpoint, if that illustration is any indicator, Romney isn't a RINO so much as he is a raving psychotic.  I didn't post the link for the text.

I guess we know what Cox and Forkum think about him.

34

Listening to Romney's fanboys tout ...

Ain't that the truth.  Listening to Hewitt's show or reading his website is a friggin' clinic on going in the tank for somebody.  Seriously, I know next to nothing about Romney other than he's a Mormon and Hewitt adores him.

35

I'm not convinced that Giuliani can win the hearts of conservatives outside of the north east. I wonder if he can pull in Tennessee, Oklahoma, etc. considering his liberal stands on immigration and abortion.

 

You left out Gun Control. Big negative in the South.

 

36

Hollowpoint, if that illustration is any indicator, Romney isn't a RINO so much as he is a raving psychotic.  I didn't post the link for the text.

Ah, I ignored the picture and read the text.  On HA the Romney fans are convinced he'll win because he did so well in a fake fundraiser poll in IA.

37 I can fall in line behind Rudy if he's all we have, but it would only be falling in line.  I like his mule-headedness when it comes to support for the war but that quality is a two-edged sword.  I'm not sure he and I mean the same thing when we talk about judicial conservatism, he's soft on guns and abortion, and the fiscal creds are kind of there but kind of not since being a "conservative" mayor in NYC shows more about how persistent you are than how far you will go.  Reaganite fiscal conservatism is never really on the table there.

The thing is, putting Rudy in the White House does not even do as much for the war as putting Fred!, Mitt or even Hunter there.  The problem with electing a guy who is a strong hawk but has weak appeal to the base is that the left will still hammer him even when he has alienated his natural allies on the right.  Maybe even more so.  Exhibit A:  George W. Bush. 

Strong war leadership is going to depend on having strong support overall.  I'm not convinced Rudy could pull that off.

38 >>Ain't that the truth. Listening to Hewitt's show or reading his website is a friggin' clinic on going in the tank for somebody. Seriously, I know next to nothing about Romney other than he's a Mormon and Hewitt adores him.

As opposed to what, the Fredheads? Nobody ever argues about any specific thing he has done but damned if they don't love him cause he's just the bestest!! At least the Paulites, unstable as they may be, argue about what they like about their candidate. Fredheads haven't got a clue about Fred's record.

Romney has been running for about 6 months now. His record is out there. If people don't know his record it's because they aren't looking. Funny how the places where he has concentrated his time, Iowa and NH, he is winning big.

39 And Mitt would have to prove himself early and often, BTW, since his conservatism seems to have been a recent evolution.  Fred! would be better able to pick his fights instead of having to engage too broadly to get much accomplished.  But since this is a Rudy thread, I'll drop it right here.

40 If Romney's the candidate, I'll vote for him. But for some reason he makes me uneasy.

Like Clinton, especially in his first campaign, if you hear him on the radio, he sounds great. But when I see Romney on TV, there's something off.

It was the same with Carter in that Carter's smile never engaged his eyes.

And Clinton had a "tell" - if you go back and look at his campaign speeches, whenever he said something conservative, he'd look down and smirk a little. That's why I never understood the whole political genius thing about Clinton, he clearly had a tell. I'd love to play poker with him.

Anyway, Romney gives me the same gut feeling as Carter and Clinton. I don't care about the Mormon thing. But I suspect that's why, despite the fact that he seems perfect on paper, few people are truly enthused about him.

41 No, I couldn't.  A rehash of amnesty would wreck the party.

42 I would vote for the mouldering corpse of Millard Fillmore over Hillary.

43

How is Fred the 'conservative' choice?  He voted against tort reform, helped pass McCain-Feingold, was McCain's campaign co-chair in 2000, voted no on the Clinton perjury charge, had only an 84% conservative rating and decided to leave the Senate during a war that just began on one front and was about to begin on another front.  To do what? Return to acting and lobbying. You can't name one accomplishment he had as a Senator and actually tanked as the chairman of the committee investigating the campaign contribution shenannigans. John Glenn ran circles around him. I expect that is one reason he decided to quit.  But the other guys are RINOs.

44 Zombie Fillmore thanks you for your support.  For your loyalty, I promise that yours will be the last brain I eat, young man.

45 I'm against tort reform myself, P.  I'm baffled why fellow conservatives would take the elitist position that a jury of one's peers cannot be trusted to do what they have done since our founding and that such an important decision should be made for them by their betters.  Give me a break. 

Thompson voted guilty on obstruction and not guilty on perjury.  His reasoning, as I understand it, was that the article charging perjury was not specific about which statement was perjurous which would mean a fairly small number of Senators could agree that a given statement was perjury and as long as there was a good enough minority for each statement it would add up to a conviction even though there was no majority agreement that any statement was in fact perjurous.  I was pretty pissed at the time, but I have to concede the House dropped the ball when it drafted the article that way.  (Thanks, Maggie's Notebook for the recap.)  As much as I loathed Clinton, I don't have a problem with a conservative saying, in effect, the rules matter.

He's a personal friend of McCain, so I'll throw him a bone on the co-chair thing but McCain-Feingold was a genuinely bad choice.  He's going to have to address that just like all of the other electable candidates have had to address similar problems with their records.  Lots more problems, in fact.

As far as being a shaker and mover in the Senate, the last thing I want is one of those.  Who are the truly effective Senators?  Harry Ried?  Ted Kennedy? Trent Lott?  Putting their positions aside, there is a weaseling back-room quality that seems to be required to be a big shot in that body which probably has something to do with the notorious problems Senators have historically in running for the White House.  Non-issue.  Neither can I fault him for leaving the Senate.  Leaving high elective office to go back to private sector work isn't a negative in itself and doing it in a red state, which did in fact elect a Republican replacement, does not bug me at all.

What I want is a good Communicator in Chief who has my talking points in his pocket and a good Delegator in Chief who will put the right people in the right places.  Fred's the guy for the first part and everyone so far is a cypher for the second.

46

how fucking stupid are the Dems?

Did I just hear my name called?  Reporting for duty!

47 "decided to leave the Senate during a war that just began on one front and was about to begin on another front.  To do what? Return to acting and lobbying."

I thought he left the Senate because he had a child die in 2002.

48 Bah...  You take Hillary Clinton, give her some estrogen therapy, you end up with Rudy Giuliani.

If it comes down to Hillary vs. Rudy, there's really no point in voting. 

If anything, Hillary will have the whole "women executive power complex" thing...  so she'll probably end up being much more hawkish than the crossdressing polygamist from New York.

49

As long as you asked...no.

I'm blogging again!

50 The poll shows nothing except that Fred hasn't announced yet and is lying low this month.  This also explains the rampant defeatism.

51

In times of war, the country needs a strong leader.  War fighting/leadership abilities trump all other considerations when picking a president during wartime.

And Rudy has it in spades.  He is simply head and shoulders above the rest on this cruicial point.  He is the only one of them who seem to really acknowledge the live and death threat we are facing.

It's possible that much of Fred Thompson's appeal and support are from folks who like his screen personas over the years.  In actual accomplishments, he just hasn't shown us much.  

Romney is a pretty boy who can debate the fine points of governing a state all night long but so far has not revealed to have any of the fire and toughness a successful war time leader needs.  He is basically a Rhino and will make a fine bookkeeper. 

The rest of the Republician field should be thankful that they have their day jobs to go back to.

52

I like Romney- alot. Think he'd make a phenomenal President

However- right or wrong (wrong, IMO), he will be tarred and feathered with the "Mormons are crazy bigamists" slander, and it will stick with the "swing" voter dickheads who will decide this election. He cant win against Hillary, period.

Want President Hillary? Vote Romney.

53 Putting it mildly, the conservative social right is very wary of guys who "see the light" just in time to run for president.

54 ANd the more I see and hear of Fred, the less impressed I am by him. Mostly hype. He isnt as articulate or commanding in his presence as he is made out to be. A bit phlemagtic frankly. I like him, but he cant beat Hillary either.

55

BIG difference between Hillary and Rudy:

HIllary could give a fuck about the good of the country or whether we win in Iraq. HIllary cares about one thing: HILLARY

Rudy actually cares about America, and wants us to win in Iraq and the broader war on terror.

56

I'm as socially conservative as anyone, but I can (and will if necessary) vote for Rudy.

We need someone in the White House who will fight the war against radical Islam and we need a Republican for that to be the case. So whoever (other than RIPaul) the Republicans nominate, I'm for them.

And I think Rudy has the best chance of winning the general election.

That's what really matters.

 

57 Electing Rudy also sends a huge signal to the Islamists who think the media represents America...."I thought they want out of the war, and yet they elect the mayor of NYC!"

58

As far as hard line social conservatism- good luck with that.

Romney "found" his pro-life position right about the time he decided to run for President.

Thompson is probably the most consistent, but he seems to be waffly on some of the social issues as well.

McCain? Please.

So who are you hard line social conservatives voting for? Obama? Edwards? Oh thats right, your gonna "sit this one out". Then we'll have 9 Ruth Ginsbergs on the Supreme Court instead of 1

59

Rudy gets my vote even though he is just a more articulate  W.

An suit dummy will get 40% versus Hillary and Dirtbag Willie- Rudy can get the last 10% with a decent Veep and good debates.

60 Also, I really dislike McCain, but if he were the Republican nominee, I'd vote for him over any of the Democrats.

I'd be fine with Mitt or Rudy, fine with Fred. None of them makes me happy across the board, and I don't think any of them will help downticket (the downticket people need to fix their own problems, no presidential nominee is going to fix their lack of principles or ethics.) I don't seriously see myself donating to any of their campaigns in primary season, though I could see ponying up for the nominee.

Though I hate the man's personal morals, and I think he's an egotist (don't you =have= to be, to run for president?), Rudy has shown he can get things done. I never visited pre-Rudy NYC, but I lived in NYC during his time as mayor, and he made it so nice that instead of moving back to NC after 4 years (my original plan), I lived there for 11 years and am still working there. Rudy's a real leader.

The three "front-runners" on the Democratic side are all legislators of very short tenures. And all three are very liberal -- when Hillary comes across as the "sensible" one, you know you're in Kos territory. There's no moderating from that. Sitting it out is not a viable option for me.

61 "Though this new CBS poll, showing Giuliani twenty points out ahead of even Teh Mighty Fred, does again raise the question: Could you live with him as nominee if you had to?"

Sure

62 Guiliani stepped in it by hiring this guy Bonner to stump for him on immigration/border issues.  It was only a few years ago Bonner was doing the same thing for Bush. He was all over the place trying to shove open borders and you can't arrest illegals for being here illegally and other such crap.  Nobody believed or trusted him then. Nobody believes or trusts him now.  If Guiliani is smart, he will dump him. He won't though.

63

Why aren't people talking about Huckabee?  Or Brownback?  Together, they trashed Mitt and all his money in Iowa.  If only one of the two was in the race, I think that the frontrunner in the straw poll would be Huckabee or Brownback.

I really don't think Giuliani will win.  It's clear that he has the blessing of the Washington establishment, but I don't think that it translates into real grassroots support.  In fact, I think that actual conservatives will mobilize against a Giuliani nomination and turn out for someone who has some moral integrity.  The more I see of Giuliani, the clearer it becomes that he is looking out for himself.  If he cared about America, his firm wouldn't be representing every foreign entity under the sun.  The establishment tends to push up egotists because they are easier to manipulate.  Principled Americans tend to be unpredictable and disloyal to foreign elites. 

And if Giuliani were to face off with Hillary, you'd probably see diminished turnout among the largest segment of the Republican base.  If we could get behind Huckabee or Brownback...  We could actually trash Hillary on social issues.

64 Hmmmm.

"Could you live with him as nominee if you had to?"

No.

65

"Could you live with him as nominee if you had to?"

Yup.  Would even vote for him, too.

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84 Factors Replica Watches About The Rolex replica watches Oyster The Oyster is so closely get in touch with Rolex, and it is inevitably that some people think these are the only Replica watches Rolex manufacture. Others suppose that there is a single Oyster watch. But as a matter of fact, the name Oyster does not actually meant for a rolex Watches particular watch you can buy rolex watches or even to a series but to a type of case that available in some of the Rolex ranges. History The Oyster case was first released in 1926. The objective was to protect the workings of the watch from dust and moisture. Early watches were far from waterproof. The Oyster tag heuer Watchescase was an tag heuer watches innovative design to eliminate these problems. It had a new double locking crown that screwed into place. It has been compared to the hatch on a submarine. Like a submarine, the Oyster case was waterproof. In 1927 Mercedes Gleitze swam the English breitling Watches Channel breitling watches . Before she set off she was presented with a Rolex Oyster. When she arrived, the watch was still working perfectly. The resulting publicity gave the new case a massive boost. Why is it called Oyster? Legend has it that Hans cartier Watches Wilsdorf cartier watches, who invented the Oyster, chose the name because the new case reminded him of the difficulty he had experienced prising open oysters at dinner. Since then the Oyster has further, particularly advanced. Many Oyster watches today are omega Watches perpetual-self-winding, in other omega watches words, it does not require to expose the mechanism to the outside world in order to wind it. The Osyter Perpetual is one of the toughest, most durable, most reliable watches (under truly adverse conditions). It is probably the best mechanical watch money can buy.

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