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"The Michelle Malkin Slash Ace of Spades Front"

So let's see. Atlantic's Ross Douthat says:

1) Scott Beauchamp seems to be exaggerating (at least).

2) Given that TNR never before tried a "soldier's POV" story before, there's a reasonable amount of suspicion over TNR's choice of Beauchamp -- ultraliberal, anti-war, Bush-hatin' Beauchamp -- to be the magazine's singular reporter from the grunt's eye view.

3) He questions TNR's spotty fact-checking in this case. (TNR editor Jonathan Chait seems shocked to learn that The Atlantic's fact-checkers actually call interviewees and run every single quote by them for comment/objection.)

4) He questions whether TNR should have run such a thinly-sourced story over such a "fraught" issue.

And yet, to prove he's one of those reasonable types and not a crazy conservative, he claims that the suggestions by the "Michelle Malkin slash Ace of Spades front" are "ludicrous."

Okay, Ross. You keep earning your reasonable stripes by basically kissing your liberal pals' asses while meanwhile saying nothing at all -- except to the extent you just agree with what your betters have figured out before you did.

On the other hand, it gets rather good here. Here Douthat notes what was pointed out to him by the "ludicrous" "Michelle Malkin slash Ace of Spades front" -- namely, that Beauchamp seems to have most likely lied, and not made an "error," in claiming the Burned Woman mockery occurred in Iraq rather than Kuwait -- and Jonathan Chait admits that it does seem reasonable to conclude Beauchamp did not make an "error" but rather deliberately lied.

Remember, though, Douthat, who did nothing on this story, is superior to any of us rightwing crazies simply by parroting what we have written.

News: Chait tells us when they found out Beauchamp had lied about this -- "shortly before he went incommunicado" due to the investigation.

That itself happened shortly after Beauchamp outed himself, and four or five days before TNR admitted the lie.

(I haven't gone back to the calender yet; forgive me if my day-counts are wrong.)

So we now have an approximate time-frame for how long Chait and TNR lied to the public about Beauchamp once it knew the truth.

Oh: Douthat compares this all to to humorist David Sedaris' obviously fictionalized, jokefied memoirs, and then Chait cracks a joke about spell-checking.

Yes, guys, that's exactly what this is like: Fucking comic essayist/absurdist David Sedaris' obviously wildly exaggerated tales.

Is TNR really saying that's the level of accuracy they strive for?

In case you don't know Sedaris, he writes fairly absurd "memoirs" about his childhood along the lines of the tall tales told in A Christmas Story. You know, the movie where the Bumpus' dogs eat the Christmas turkey and there's that huge sexy-leg-in-garters lamp.

What they are doing is trivializing this asshole's lies by suggesting that we should take his "memoirs" by the same standard we take a comic absurdist like Sedaris or Jean Sheppard.

What?

Incidentally, it is the rule on BloggingHeads that they link just about everything referenced. Especially if they knock someone. When they knock Althouse, for example, they link the post they're knocking.

No links there to the "Michelle Malkin Slash Ace of Spades front" they assert was so "ludicrous" in getting so much of this right. They mention Michael Goldfarb's WS blog; but don't link it. They claim, for example, he claimed there was no soldier at all; too bad they don't link him or else people could see that's pure bullshit.

All that's linked is the original story and TNR's statement on it -- no criticism of the statement, no links to the "ludicrous" blogs so that people can see exactly how "ludicrous" we all were.

So "ludicrous" we were writing what Douthat now feels comfortable saying three weeks ago.

Chait Claims... That it's perfectly reasonable to say that the story would have read the same way had the "Burned Woman" incident been placed accurately in Kuwait, before Beauchamp enterred the war. He claims the "desensitization of war" theme still would have worked due to the "group bonding" that happens in basic training and the like -- training for war, he's claiming, works almost as well in desensitizing a soldier as the actual horror of war.

He finds this credible. Training and "bonding" with fellow soldiers may cause one to lose one's morality just as much as seeing one's buddies' heads being blown off.

Give me a fuckin' chance at Jonathan Fuckin' Chait, Kaus, rather than his little cocksucker pal Douthat. Then you'll have a fuckin' Blogging Heads.

I Like Douthat's Point... about bloggers not understanding how minimal is the fact-checking that occurs at small magazines.

Glad to see he's keeping up with my fucking blog.

He does nothing but spit out our criticisms as if they're his own, claiming we were making "ludicrous" criticisms, and then neither of these assholes see fit to link the blogs he's cribbing from.


"One Error:" The only point upon which there is no dispute is that Beauchamp lied in placing the melted woman in Iraq -- which the "ludicrous" critics believed was "ludicrous" due to the fact that badly disfigured woman would be an unlikely candidate to be serving at a Forward Operating Base.

Well, so far, on the one resolved claim, we're right. And yet Chait says we're merely "claiming some success" over this.

We're not claiming it. We have it. Beauchamp lied. On the one point which is at the moment utterly settled, Beauchamp lied. Flat-out lied. Oh, wait, right-- he forgot he was merely in Kuwait rather than Iraq, so traumatized was he by the "bonding" experiences of basic training.

On the other points, the military itself says Beauchamp is either "wildly exaggerating" or "completely fabricating" his claims.

We're claiming some amount of vindication?

Dude, there has been only one goal scored so far it and was a crushing blast that knocked TNR's goalie on his ass.

Posted by: Ace at 07:34 PM



Comments

1 It would help if he said what suggestions are ludicrous, because it sounds to me like he's agreed with everything you said.

But maybe readers of The Atlantic won't know that.

Posted by: Bostonian at August 06, 2007 07:38 PM (Z3lex)

2 Does this mean Michelle is going to Acecon?

Posted by: someone at August 06, 2007 07:45 PM (TXnhk)

3

Is it safe to assume at this point -- given that TNR essentially concedes that once again its vaunted fact-checking has failed -- that literally no amount of misconduct at that magazine will destroy it?

They believed after the Glass thing that one more scandal would kill them.  Well, here's there "one more scandal," and I just can't see them throwing in the towel.  There are far too many lefties willing to conclude that Beauchamp may have been lying about the details (assuming they will even acknowledge as much), but the overall picture...

Posted by: Sobek at August 06, 2007 07:45 PM (6GK9U)

4 I love where Chait says Beuachamp is a good writer (an earlier clip, not what Ace linked to) but at least he admits he got the gig because of who he was married to. He can't really believe he's a good writer.

Also, isn't Chait supposed to be a serious lefty? He's basically saying the whole "war scarred me so I mock burned women" thing is basically "fact but accurate". According to him just joining the Army and basic training was enough to do the trick.

It's a little troublesome that the line that is developing is 'the only thing' Beauchamp got wrong (as opposed to lied about) is the location of melted face woman incident. Does any one other than the left and the staff of TNR (sorry for the redundancy) believe that?  What proof, other than TNR's word do we have for any of the other stories? 

We know for a fact that Iraqi police aren't the only ones who carry Glocks as he claimed, so why exactly does he get the benefit of the doubt on any his crap?

I hope the Army has something else to release to destroy what's left of TNR's and Beauchamp's credibility.

Posted by: Drew at August 06, 2007 07:55 PM (hlYel)

5 These two are freakin intellectual nitwits. Listening to those two is like listening to a couple of 5th graders.

Posted by: Capitalist Infidel at August 06, 2007 07:55 PM (Lgw9b)

6 Ace is part of a "front" now?  Uh oh.

We saw the revolution in its infancy, yet did nothing to stop it.  First they came for the hobos...

Posted by: sandy burger at August 06, 2007 07:59 PM (PQyeQ)

7 Cool, do we get cool armbands?  

Posted by: former republican at August 06, 2007 08:12 PM (rZ9JQ)

8 a lot more at Confederate Yankee, but

>>>Further email exchanges with U.S. Army PAO Major Steven Lamb with Multi National Division-Baghdad states that any administrative punishment handed down to PV-2 Beauchamp is a personnel matter, and therefore, will not be discussed publicly. Access to the findings of the Army investigation of Beauchamp's claims, where all soldiers in his platoon and company were interviewed and could not substantiate his claims, has not yet been determined.

As Col. Boylan has released the findings conclusions of the Army investigation of this matter to this blogger and the information is in the public domain, the Army is not planning a press release discussing the findings at this time. Instead, Major Lamb states that the PAO system is only responding to specific inquiries, and little more is expected to be released unless PV-2 Beauchamp decides to discuss the matter further, which he is free to do.<<<

sounds to me like little Tommy Beaucamp confessed that he made up and/or exageratted his TNR stories to the Army and is now hiding behind the Armies procedure to comment too much.

What do you bet?

Posted by: topsecretk9 at August 06, 2007 08:14 PM (0rJrY)

9 Army's - ack

Posted by: topsecretk9 at August 06, 2007 08:15 PM (0rJrY)

10 Douthat.

Pronounced, "Doubt That."

Posted by: Joan of Argghh! at August 06, 2007 08:22 PM (8F+iI)

11

It easy to look stupid, Prof. Chait, when you are trying to defend the indefensible.

 

Posted by: eman at August 06, 2007 08:23 PM (F/DIG)

12 I haven't even finished it yet, but I gotta say -- Chait's expression when he hears that the Atlantic Monthly fact checks every quote is frickin' priceless.  Look in the dictionary Wikipedia under WTF?!?, and that's the expression you see.

Posted by: Z as in Jersey at August 06, 2007 08:24 PM (RiRew)

13 Pronounced, "Doubt That."

I'm thinking more along the lines of "Douche Hat"

Posted by: Purple Avenger at August 06, 2007 08:31 PM (0d45V)

14 Chait has a "tell" -- whenever he is lying so blatantly that he knows that the person watching or listening must surely recognize it, he touches his face or neck.  Check it out!

Posted by: Z as in Jersey at August 06, 2007 08:33 PM (RiRew)

15 Isn't it delicious to be mentioned with Michelle though? Come on, you gotta love it.

Posted by: Rightwingsparkle at August 06, 2007 08:34 PM (p9qmo)

16 yes, that's why I'm making a big deal about this.  I could care less what either of these sissies think.  I'm just jazzed about the MM linkage.

Posted by: ace at August 06, 2007 08:35 PM (1UCRY)

17

...and the rhhoolle the New Republic has played...

Yeah.  It's a cheap shot.

Ross offers not one substantive rebuttal to the argument.  Not the challenges, not the findings, nada. 

"I'd like to lift this up to the topic of fact checking"!

It's asinine to demand it.  You defenders of the failed war.  I work at the Atlantic.  I made coffee there when I was making my bones.

...Brookings study from 1997... cute.

 

Well, you can't REALLY fact check halfway around the world, can you now?

 

"I'm not totally sure about my point here".

 

No shit.

Posted by: Dave in Texas at August 06, 2007 08:38 PM (FXakj)

18 How am I supposed to be impressed with The Atlantic's rigorous fact-checking as described by Ross Douthat when it is obvious he did very little checking on what he was talking about.  Maybe Chait's surprise wasn't that The Atlantic does it to that degree, but that Douthat had the audacity to still be parroting the MSM "layers of fact-checkers" meme.

But I'll give The Atlantic the benefit of the doubt.  In general, they probably do a reasonable job of fact-checking and the only blemish is that crazy Ross Douthat.  Oh yeah, and that other guy.  What's his name again???




Posted by: Dusty at August 06, 2007 08:38 PM (1Lzs1)

19

Pvt-2 after more than 2 years in the Army?  I think that says it all right there. 

The Army needs to give a serious statement, breaking down their findings as against the various tall tales told be Beauchamp.  The extent of the administrative punishment can and should stay private.  I'm  pretty sure there is nothing in the UCMJ under "telling tall tales to a credulous lefty rag".

Posted by: holdfast at August 06, 2007 08:40 PM (Gzb30)

20 When did he enlist? And he's still a PV-2? Isn't that bad?

Posted by: dave at August 06, 2007 08:42 PM (WY9+V)

21 BoyChump, I read all of Jean Shepherd's books; I used to listen to him religiously on the radio: I watch A Christmas Story two or three times every holiday season. BoyChump, you're no Jean Shepherd.

Excelsior!

Posted by: Z as in Jersey at August 06, 2007 08:44 PM (RiRew)

22 Instead, Major Lamb states that the PAO system is only responding to specific inquiries, and little more is expected to be released unless PV-2 Beauchamp decides to discuss the matter further, which he is free to do.


Well, well, well. Pvt. Fauxchamp, are you ready for your close up?

Posted by: Pablo at August 06, 2007 08:45 PM (yTndK)

23 Now I see it all! Scott was just this era's Walter Mitty. It was so obvious, how could I miss it? [shakes heads in regret]

Posted by: andycanuck at August 06, 2007 08:46 PM (c1fyE)

24 If this is the front, where's the rear?

Posted by: Purple Avenger at August 06, 2007 08:47 PM (0d45V)

25 I watch A Christmas Story two or three times every holiday season.

That all?

Posted by: dave at August 06, 2007 08:51 PM (WY9+V)

26 Yeah well I do not care for The Atlantic but it is a good publication with clearly a higher standard of journalism and writing than New Republic.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at August 06, 2007 08:51 PM (wmgz8)

27 Pvt-2 after more than 2 years in the Army?  I think that says it all right there.

No kidding.

Posted by: Beth at August 06, 2007 08:51 PM (yqiXY)

28

you two make a lovely couple ace. much nachas and lots of mazel.

can we expect some baby blogs one day?

it would make your mothers very happy.

Posted by: dr. akim ullshitbay at August 06, 2007 08:53 PM (hHrOb)

29 I don't know whether these two are serious lefties.  I'm not a lefty.  But I think most people would agree that they are serious journalists.  Think about that.

Posted by: corvan at August 06, 2007 08:54 PM (GfjmO)

30 He hasn't logged in on his myspace page for 11 days now which makes me think he is still under some serious administrative restrictions. However, wouldn't his wife know what is going on? We know TNR has an in with her. Why aren't they asking her what happened to him as the result of the investigation?

Posted by: dave at August 06, 2007 08:55 PM (WY9+V)

31 corvan,

I don't agree they're serious journalists.

As for "serious lefties"  -- Jonathan Chait's only memorable column, ever, was his cri de coeur about how he "hates" George Bush.  This was widely hailed by lefty journalists at the time as being a go-ahead for them to drop the pretense of civility or emotional distance and simply begin emoting, wailing like starving kittens.

Think about that.


Posted by: ace at August 06, 2007 08:56 PM (1UCRY)

32 corvan,

And I think you are a lefty, just lying about it, as usual.


Posted by: ace at August 06, 2007 08:56 PM (1UCRY)

33 Douthat's a serious journalist?  Um check it out: Douthat's got the same fuckin' job I have -- BLOGGER.

I didn't need to come up through the Atlantic's mailroom to get this gig, either.

Whatev's, man. 


Posted by: ace at August 06, 2007 08:57 PM (1UCRY)

34 But I think most people would agree that they are serious journalists.  Think about that.

They are serious journalists and that's why this shit is such an indictment of establishment journalism. They aren't letting the facts get in the way of the building heard...the Beauchamp only got one thing wrong.  The reality is that he lied about that one thing, has been demonstrated wrong on other issues and TNR's only 'proof' is some anonymous sources they claim to have.

But these 'serious journalists' are more interested in protecting the guild.

Posted by: Drew at August 06, 2007 09:03 PM (hlYel)

35 Douthat's got the same fuckin' job I have -- BLOGGER.

I didn't realize that, I thought he was a columnist or contributor.  Blogger, that's just sad.

Posted by: Drew at August 06, 2007 09:06 PM (hlYel)

36 He hasn't logged in on his myspace page for 11 days now which makes me think he is still under some serious administrative restrictions.

what ConYank has up now...

Major Lamb states that the PAO system is only responding to specific inquiries, and little more is expected to be released unless PV-2 Beauchamp decides to discuss the matter further, which he is free to do.

basically says to me that Beauchamp admitted he's a big fat liar (hence, no criminal charges) and he is and has been free to tell TNR and the world such, but is zero rush to do so, would you?

I also question how strenuous his so-called communications lock down really was and would not be the least bit surprised to learn he's been hiding behind it.

Posted by: topsecretk9 at August 06, 2007 09:07 PM (0rJrY)

37

"Michelle Malkin/Ace of Spades Front"

I thought we were the People's Front.

Posted by: Don Carne at August 06, 2007 09:07 PM (wSNS7)

38 eh, I imagine Douthat turns in a piece every now and again. Still, his main job seems to be running a blog, which is a job which (and I do speak from experience) a fucking retard can do.


Posted by: ace at August 06, 2007 09:09 PM (1UCRY)

39 The fact that Beaudouche is a PV2 after 2 years indicates that he had to have been busted down in the past for other infractions.

Granted, this was a while ago, but I went from PVT to SPC in 20 months.  Was offered to go to the board for promotion to SGT at 27 months, and SSG at 52 months.  This was way, WAY, before the Army made fast-tracking to SGT company policy.

At 2 years, he should at least be a SPC.  PV2 after 2 years in todays Army is a disgrace.

Posted by: former republican at August 06, 2007 09:10 PM (rZ9JQ)

40

Isn't it delicious to be mentioned with Michelle though? Come on, you gotta love it.

I think he would find it more delicious if he had been mentioned in a more rick solomon sorta way.

Posted by: Wickedpinto at August 06, 2007 09:13 PM (QTv8u)

41 I think it's funny as hell that they take this fuckup seriously.  If they  had the slightest clue about the military, they'd find a more credible "diarist" than some idiot who ought to (according to the Army's standard TIS requirements) be an E-4 by now, but somehow managed to be a PV2 after two years in service.  His TIS and grade screams "fuckup," but they take his word as gold.  I guarantee nobody in his unit does (nor should they).
I do realize the Army yanks stripes a lot more than they do in say, the Air Force, but they promote a hell of a lot faster, too.

Sorry, that's just something that's been annoying the hell out of me throughout this, and few people have mentioned it.  He's a fuckup.  You would think if they wanted (which they don't) a credible source, they'd find some ate-up GI Joe on the fast track.  Of course, they wouldn't be able to find one to suit their needs.  (It kinda makes me wonder how long that asshole captain at YKos has been waiting for his promotion to Major, too.)

Posted by: Beth at August 06, 2007 09:13 PM (yqiXY)

42

Holdfast,

The offence is "conduct unbecomming".  Works for everything.

Posted by: Eric at August 06, 2007 09:15 PM (XIXhw)

43 Oh Beth, thank you.  It has been sooo long since I heard or read "ate-up".  Brought back memories like "soup-sandwich" and what not.

Posted by: former republican at August 06, 2007 09:17 PM (rZ9JQ)

44 The Atlantic was a fine publication when Michael Kelly was editing it. But he was killed in Iraq in 2003, and it's been downhill ever since. Remember, this is the magazine that dumped Mark Steyn, whose obituary for Oriana Falluci brought tears to my eyes, and kept Jonathan Chait. Enough said.

Posted by: Brown Line at August 06, 2007 09:18 PM (50X/W)

45 It has been sooo long since I heard or read "ate-up".

Heeee.  Maggot!

Posted by: Beth at August 06, 2007 09:20 PM (yqiXY)

46

Drew, as it turns out, is absolutely right.  They are serious journalists and their only motivation is to protect the guild. 

The only thing journalism has to sell is its appearnce of objectivity.  Basically they are all advertising people pretending not to be truth-tellers.   All of them.  It's not a left-right thing.  It's a journalism thing.  As a field it cannot be trusted to tell the simple truth about anything...anything.  Which is why Ace's source, the one who apologizes for the  TNR, won't go on the record to simply state that no one in that business fact checks much of anything.  Which is why JPod ( though he's coming around now) tried to to shut down Ace's investigation into Beachunmp's marriage, and is why I suspect Lowry helped the AP slip off the hook during Jamilgate with "Sometimes the Media is Right.  ( And don't get me started with Allah working the "too close to call," angle.)   Guild trumps truth.  The sooner the rest of us stop pretending that journalism is anything other than politics the better off we'll all be.

Jumped the gun didn't you, Ace?

Posted by: corvan at August 06, 2007 09:21 PM (GfjmO)

47 Can we have some cool hats to go with our armbands?

I like hats.

Posted by: Stormy70 at August 06, 2007 09:21 PM (Y+o71)

48 Posted by: Eric at August 06, 2007 09:15 PM (XIXhw)

"Conduct unbecoming" is generally used for officers.  I've never heard of any enlisted person being charged with that.  There's something similar used for enlisted, but I can't remember it.  (I wasn't a JAG type, so I'd hafta look it up.)

Posted by: Beth at August 06, 2007 09:24 PM (yqiXY)

49 Heeee.  Maggot!

I was never called a maggot or a fuck-up in training.  We were called "crack-babies".  And the Drill Sergeants were kind enough to inform us the reason we were called crack-babies was that they weren't allowed to call us fuck-us or retards anymore.

Posted by: former republican at August 06, 2007 09:24 PM (rZ9JQ)

50

If this is the front, where's the rear?

PROTEIN WIDSOM !!!

Posted by: kosisok at August 06, 2007 09:26 PM (USZuk)

51 Yeah, if he is an E-2 (PV2) after two years he is a certified shitbird.  Your humble correspondent (me) went in an E-1 and made sergeant (E-5) in 26 months.  This dirtbag had at least some college credit.  That should get you E-3 going in and E-4 if you have a bachelors degree.  Damn, passing the PT test while in the delayed entry program will get you promoted to E-2.  The guy is familiar with Army Regulation 15, that is for sure.

Posted by: D. Walker at August 06, 2007 09:26 PM (jKZrB)

52 @48 Beth

The conduct unbecoming part was also adhered to NCOs, at least while I was in.  I believe for junior enlisted it was something along the lines of "not adhering to professional standards" or something similar.

Posted by: former republican at August 06, 2007 09:27 PM (rZ9JQ)

53 corvan,

Yes, I jumped the gun.

Still, even though I obviously misjudged you, I can't help feeling deep inside that you are a total douche.

Just kidding, sorry.


Posted by: ace at August 06, 2007 09:27 PM (1UCRY)

Posted by: holdfast at August 06, 2007 09:29 PM (Gzb30)

55

From here:

§ 933. Art. 133. Conduct unbecoming an officer and a gentleman

Any commissioned officer, cadet, or midshipman who is convicted of conduct unbecoming an officer and a gentleman shall be punished as a court-martial may direct.

§ 934. Art. 134. General article

Though not specifically mentioned in this chapter, all disorders and neglects to the prejudice of good order and discipline in the armed forces, all conduct of a nature to bring discredit upon the armed forces, and crimes and offenses not capital, of which persons subject to this chapter may be guilty, shall be taken cognizance of by a general, special, or summary court-martial, according to the nature and degree of the offense, and shall be punished at the discretion of that court.


The catch-all.  For crack babies.  ;-)

Posted by: Beth at August 06, 2007 09:30 PM (yqiXY)

56 I forgot how funny some of the punitive articles in the UCMJ are. 
(Dueling??!)

Posted by: Beth at August 06, 2007 09:33 PM (yqiXY)

57 No offense taken.  I am a total douche.  And I figure you've been taking a lot of abuse from certain folk for all the work you've done on this  you deserve a lot of credit for ignoring them and doing what is right.  Good man.

Posted by: corvan at August 06, 2007 09:35 PM (GfjmO)

58

Holdfast,

The offence is "conduct unbecomming".  Works for everything.

The problem with a catchall charge like that is its very vagueness would just be a gift to his left-wing defenders.  Besides, I like the fact that he wasn't charged, because it means that he admitted that his stories were lies and gross exagerations.

Up north, our charge was "conduct prejudicial to the maintenance of good order and discipline".

Posted by: holdfast at August 06, 2007 09:35 PM (Gzb30)

59 So Ace, does this front thing mean you're gonna be filling in for O'Reilly now too? 
And will there be tanks?

Posted by: Beth at August 06, 2007 09:41 PM (yqiXY)

60 When did AllahPundit become a journalist?

Posted by: dave at August 06, 2007 09:43 PM (WY9+V)

61 As an aside, that Blogging Heads site is ass-ugly, and one hell of a huge  exercise in vanity.

Where do these boring people get the idea that we need to see them blather away on video?  I was hoping vlogging would be dead by now.  Shit.

Posted by: Beth at August 06, 2007 09:48 PM (yqiXY)

Posted by: holdfast at August 06, 2007 09:48 PM (Gzb30)

63 Article 134.  Oh yeah, I remember that.  Maybe the conduct unbecoming thing was just a general threat at NCOPDs, or NCODPs...too many damn acronyms... thrown out at these things just to scare the shitbag NCOs into line. 

However, Article 134 is abused way too much.  The shop I ran in Korea was 2 blocks from the 2ID courtroom, I am guessing that that is the proper term (never cared much for JAG shit), and since the rest of the Battalion was 45 miles away we (and by we, I mean me) got stuck with providing a bailiff (again me) for the proceedings anytime someone with in my battalion got stuck with a court-martial.  The bailiffs duties were to pass documents between the attorneys, jury, and judge, as well as lay the smackdown on the defendent in case they got unruly (I was there so much that the judge, a LTC, IIRC jokingly offered me a desk and office at the building).

I sat on 5 court martials during my tenure in Korea.  2 guys were found guilty and rightly so.  The Article 134 was tacked on for extra punishment.  To me, no big deal.  However, 3 were found innocent of the charges brought against them and had to do extra duty, loss of rank and pay, etc.  I think that is an abuse of the system.

One of my soldiers got charged  rape.  He  was found not guilty of rape but is still punished for not committing the crime he was charged with.  He received a reduction in rape from SPC to PVT, lost one months pay, and was barred from re-enlisting.  The ironic part, after he served his contract, he was called back to active duty.  Even though he was barred from re-enlistment, he could, and was, called back from IRR duty.

/rant off about UCMJ and proceedings.

Bottom line up front.  Article 134 is well within the realm of non-judicial punishment.  To enforce it on a soldier that was found innocent is beyond the pail in my view.


Posted by: former republican at August 06, 2007 09:51 PM (rZ9JQ)

64 Splitters!

Posted by: Beth at August 06, 2007 09:51 PM (yqiXY)

65 er reduction in grade...not rape...damn you Jim Beam.  

Posted by: former republican at August 06, 2007 09:54 PM (rZ9JQ)

66

TNR wanted soemone who could give an eyewtiness account of the brutalities of war, and it selected a mechanic in the motor pool?

Isn't that what this twat does? There was some comment on his blog about how ironic it was that he couldn't do a thing with his own car in civilian life, but was now a mechanic.  And apparently an incomptent one or a wiseguy, given his current rank.

Posted by: Rosley at August 06, 2007 09:55 PM (qV24v)

67 Posted by: former republican at August 06, 2007 09:51 PM (rZ9JQ)

Eh, that's the Army.  We used to laugh about how often the Army would take away rank (and how fast soldiers get promoted), only because it made us (in the AF) feel better about the Air Force's glacial promotion system.  I could count on one hand the number of people I knew who got an Article 15 during my 11 years, and only one I worked with who actually got court-martialed (stealing $5000).  I also knew quite a few people who retired at 20 as E-6's without ever fucking up, though.

Posted by: Beth at August 06, 2007 09:57 PM (yqiXY)

68 Not necessarily Rosley.

The military vehicles I worked with (HMMWV and LMTV) were much easier to work on than civilian vehicles.  I have either assisted 63Bs (wheeled mechanics that worked on these types of vehicles) or done repair on said vehicles that I could never do on my S-10.  Most MOSs that I am aware of that require driving specific types of vehicles are, what the Army calls 10-20.  The 10-20 refers to the level of maintenance.  10-20 means "operator-maintainer" which involves some basic mechanical work.


Posted by: former republican at August 06, 2007 10:00 PM (rZ9JQ)

69 Posted by: Beth at August 06, 2007 09:57 PM (yqiXY)

Heh, the good NCOs that I worked with always envied the AF promotion system.  Part of the Army NCO creed is "I will strive to remain tactically and technically proficient".

Most of the people promoted were good on the tactical part, but couldn't do most of the technical skills necessary to train and lead soldiers.  So, a squared away PFC who got the unfortunate task of becoming the company armorer, could get promoted to Sergeant without having worked in his field for close to 2 years.  Even though the individual may be high-speed (woot, another term), he/she may be clueless as to what has changed since they last worked a switch. 

I was telecomm....telephone and internet.  You spend 2 years in an armory, and you haven't learned shit about the advancements in technology, you aren't that great of a leader to a PV2 out of AIT.

Posted by: former republican at August 06, 2007 10:05 PM (rZ9JQ)

70

(It kinda makes me wonder how long that asshole captain at YKos has been waiting for his promotion to Major, too.)

I'd guess a 2nd pass and an RIF.

Posted by: Dave in Texas at August 06, 2007 10:13 PM (FXakj)

71 But I think most people would agree that they are serious journalists. Think about that.

Why do you think people are so upset and angry about this? Because they are considered serious journalists, who ought to know better.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at August 06, 2007 10:38 PM (wmgz8)

72 I'm still trying to figure out how I'm going to tell my parents that I got fired from the TNR job...

Posted by: Beth Greem, ROTC at August 06, 2007 10:48 PM (rv3/E)

73 Listen, Beth, if you want to join the MMAoSF, you've got to really hate the hobos.

Posted by: David Ross at August 06, 2007 10:49 PM (2S2a2)

74 Beth,

If you can, can you finally tell me who spaketh the quote I keep quoting about Foer?

If he's your buddy, I understand.

if he's not -- it's time to spill!

Posted by: ace at August 06, 2007 10:56 PM (1UCRY)

75 I'd guess a 2nd pass, you suck as a human being.

If you get a second pass from Major to Lt. Col, you can pretty much kiss your career good-bye.

Posted by: former republican at August 06, 2007 11:00 PM (rZ9JQ)

76 And the Drill Sergeants were kind enough to inform us the reason we were called crack-babies was that they weren't allowed to call us fuck-us or retards anymore.

So, I guess "numbnuts" and "slimy little communist shit, tinkle-toed cocksucker" are right out then.

Posted by: cheshirecat at August 06, 2007 11:10 PM (Tt09Q)

77 The main question here is what Gonz... Chait knew and when he knew it...

Posted by: BadBrad at August 06, 2007 11:12 PM (hQuOd)

78

He does nothing but spit out our criticisms as if they're his own, claiming we were making "ludicrous" criticisms, and then neither of these assholes see fit to link the blogs he's cribbing from.

Ace, it seems that if you go back and carefully document, point by point, that Douthat has recited your critique and Michelle Malkin's, without attribution or links, while saying that your critique and hers were ludicrous, you've got Douthat on "professional" journalism's cardinal sin of plagiarism.  Document what you say he's done, call him out on it, and get yourself on record demanding acknowledgment and apology from Douthat and TNR.  Encourage Michelle, Bryan, and Allah to do the same.  When you've finished fvcking TNR, you'll feel much better.

 

Posted by: Kralizec at August 06, 2007 11:45 PM (Qp2FB)

79 "Michelle Malkin/Ace of Spades Front"
I thought we were the People's Front.


Splitters!

Posted by: cheshirecat at August 07, 2007 12:05 AM (Tt09Q)

80

No time to read all above.....too old to understand some of it.

Vietnam Vet and 20 years of service.

Michelle Malkin is the biggest Terdhead I have seen on TV.

Frank O,

MSgt USAF (Retired)

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