TNR Claims (Partial) Vindication
I'll start with this:In the first, Beauchamp recounted how he and a fellow soldier mocked a disfigured woman seated near them in a dining hall. Three soldiers with whom TNR has spoken have said they repeatedly saw the same facially disfigured woman. One was the soldier specifically mentioned in the Diarist. He told us: "We were really poking fun at her; it was just me and Scott, the day that I made that comment. We were pretty loud. She was sitting at the table behind me. We were at the end of the table. I believe that there were a few people a few feet to the right." The recollections of these three soldiers differ from Beauchamp's on one significant detail (the only fact in the piece that we have determined to be inaccurate): They say the conversation occurred at Camp Buehring, in Kuwait, prior to the unit's arrival in Iraq. When presented with this important discrepancy, Beauchamp acknowledged his error. We sincerely regret this mistake.Error? Mistake? He was off by an entire country and something like nine months? This is what TNR terms an "error," a "mistake"? And when they "fact-checked" this beforehand, how did their "rigorous editing and fact-checking" miss the fact this took place in another country, before actual deployment? I'm reminded of Steven Wright's joke: "The other day I was... oh wait, that was someone else." Could happen to anyone, really. Common mistake. What made this tall tale smell (and not "smell good," per TNR's standard of "fact-checking") was that no one could figure out what the hell a badly disfigured woman -- obviously a medical evacuation case -- was doing wandering around a Forward Operating Base in the first place. A med-evac was there... why? In the thick of combat and high-tempo activity... why? What is FOB Falcon, a goddamned sanitarium/spa? Do they have lovely regenerative baths there? It also didn't help that no one -- no one spoken to -- could remember seeing such a woman on the base. TNR calls this an "error." As you like it. More: Spruiell:
That's a rather significant detail to flub, given that the author's intent was to illustrate the morally deadening effects of war.Indeed. Isn't it convenient that had he correctly noted this vicious attack on a disfigured woman had occurred after he had suffered the trauma of proposing to 2 or 3 women in war-torn Germany and during a dangerous posting in Kuwait, it would have suggested not that Bush's war had made him a degenerate prick but that genetics and upbringing had made him so? Not quite as "grabby" an opening graf, eh? Thanks to CJ. ... Their next case of "confirmation" is curious. First I'll give you their "confirmation." Read carefully.
In the second anecdote, soldiers in Beauchamp's unit discovered what they believed were children's bones. Publicly, the military has sought to refute this claim on the grounds that no such discovery was officially reported.Funny, I thought it had be reported far and wide, citing military sources, that a children's cemetery had been dug up.
But one military official told TNR that bones were commonly found in the area around Beauchamp's combat outpost. (This is consistent with the report of a children's cemetery near Beauchamp's combat outpost reported on The Weekly Standard website.)Er, no it's not. This deception disguises a key dispute between WS and TNR: WS confirmed "children's cemetery." Scott Beauchamp claimed mass grave -- not in those words, but in words strongly suggesting a mass grave. TNR claims vindication in that bones were found -- that was known from day one or, I guess, day two, when army sources confirmed (and did not seek to "refute" Beauchamp's story by claiming no bones had been "officially discovered") a children's cemetery had been routinely dug up to be relocated due to an engineering project. They prove here what is not disputed. Except that Beauchamp didn't just call it "bones," did he? Here's what he claimed:
No one cared to speculate what, exactly, had happened here, but it was clearly a Saddam-era dumping ground of some sort.From the get-go, this has been challenged because the wording is clearly intended to suggest "mass grave," and mass graves usually are dug after mass-executions. But no mass grave was found, and TNR's "confirmation" does not claim it was. Now they only claim "bones" were found -- which does then little good, as the Army has long confirmed "bones" were found. What they disputed was a "mass grave," or as Beauchamp calls it, "clearly a Saddam-era dumping ground of some sort" where "no one cared to speculate what, exactly, had happened." There is no "confirmation" for anything other than children being buried in a graveyard where little "speculation" as to "what, exactly, had happened" was necessary, no more than one needs to speculate "what, exactly, had happened" in your local graveyard. What, exactly, had happened? People had died and then had been buried, as is usually the case with dead people. The next claim of "confirmation." Note how little is confirmed.
More important, two witnesses have corroborated Beauchamp's account. One wrote in an e-mail: "I can wholeheartedly verify the finding of the bones; U.S. troops (in my unit) discovered human remains in the manner described in 'Shock Troopers.' [sic] ... [We] did not report it; there was no need to. The bodies weren't freshly killed and thus the crime hadn't been committed while we were in control of the sector of operations." On the phone, this soldier later told us that he had witnessed another soldier wearing the skull fragment just as Beauchamp recounted: "It fit like a yarmulke," he said. A forensic anthropologist confirmed to us that it is possible for tufts of hair to be attached to a long-buried fragment of a human skull, as described in the piece.First of all, TNR claims "confirmation" from two sources and yet, strangely, only reports one soldier directly confirming anything beyond the undisputed discovery of bones. (Why do they keep confirming what is not strenuously contested? Because they don't have confirmation for the rest, that's why.) Only one soldier confirms seeing the "skull cap." One begins to wonder if the same single soldier confirmed all of these claims -- and if that soldier just happens to be Beauchamp's bosom chum, the guy he makes fun of mutilated women with. But is that all Beauchamp claimed? That a soldier had stuck a bit of skull on his head and had been glimpsed doing so by one (1) other soldier? Not hardly:
One private, infamous as a joker and troublemaker, found the top part of a human skull, which was almost perfectly preserved. It even had chunks of hair, which were stiff and matted down with dirt. He squealed as he placed it on his head like a crown. It was a perfect fit. As he marched around with the skull on his head, people dropped shovels and sandbags, folding in half with laughter. No one thought to tell him to stop. No one was disgusted. Me included. The private wore the skull for the rest of the day and night. Even on a mission, he put his helmet over the skull. He observed that he was grateful his hair had just been cut--since it would make it easier to pick out the pieces of rotting flesh that were digging into his head. Funny? Of course not. But many of my friends were laughing anyway.Did Beauchamp, perhaps, make another "error" or "mistake," similar to mistaking a base in Iraq for a staging area in Kuwait, in confusing "one" for "many," by any chance? Scott Beauchamp claimed that the entire group of men tasked to dig up the the cemetery had seen, approved of, and laughed at the man with the child's skull as a cap. Does TNR have confirmation of that? TNR and the left will claim this is a minor distinction. Of course it's not. No one doubts that one soldier might rape another one. When the claim is that one soldier rapes another with an entire platoon cheering him on, it's obviously more serious, for it speaks not to the criminality and pathology of one man, but to his entire unit and the entire immediate leadership of that unit. And proving the former -- a rape occurred -- hardly established the latter -- an entire platoon hooted and cheered for the spectacle. What milbloggers found absurd here was not that one soldier might engage in bad behavior. They found it implausible that a soldier would do something like this and parade around his fellow soldiers, including, one assumes, his NCOs, without being disciplined, without even simply being told to put the skull down, and in fact applauded for his "clowning" and permitted to continue wearing the skull for the rest of the day. One asshole grabbing a piece of skull and putting it on his head where only his buddy can see it isn't terribly hard to believe. The entire platoon (or more?) of troops laughing at this display? Very hard to believe -- and unconfirmed, thought TNR attempts to blow that by you. And, oddly enough, the original Shock Troops story is now hidden behind the registration wall, so you can't check the "confirmation" against the original story! Of course... if you click on the cached version... Incidentally, would the one soldier wearing this skull cap be Scott Beauchamp himself, by any chance? In the last anecdote -- the melted-face anecdote -- he was in fact the malefactor. Was he here as well? The dog-story seems confirmed -- until you remember that once again it is only one soldier confirming it, just as there was one soldier "confirming" the skull-beanie tale. Is it the same soldier? Certainly if it were a different soldier, TNR would say so, wouldn't it? Spread the confirmation around; make the confirmation read stronger. The fact they continue saying "one soldier, one soldier" strongly suggests these two soldiers are in fact the same soldier, and even a complete asshole like Beauchamp might have one friend willing to save him from the brig. (And in fact TNR previously claimed confirmation from "at least one" soldier-- which seems to suggest only one soldier confirmed all three tales (sorta) but they had other soldiers for the proposition that bones were found in Iraq. Incidentally, TNR: Just as a stab in the dark, this soldier doing all this confirming wouldn't happen to have known Beauchamp previously from Missouri, would he? I have no firm evidence on that point -- just an odd connection a reader pointed out to me. Could be a coincidence. But I'm putting it to TNR: Is this helpful confirming soldier from Missiouri? Does he have a prior relationship with Beauchamp? Perhaps a stab in the dark too far. Well, how about this one: Would he be Beauchamp's joke-buddy for the first incident? Would he be the one Beauchamp watches the news with laughing at "silly Republicans"? Apropos Quote From Shattered Glass: Between a Fortune Online editor and reporter investigating the Steven Glass fabrications: Writer: There does seem to be one thing in this piece that checks out. Editor: What's that? Writer: There does appear to be a state in the union called "Nevada." I hope I won't get flagged for misreporting if I didn't get that quote just right. I have "near certainty" it's right, and I've passed it around to experts to see if it "smelled good."
Comments
Would he be Beauchamp's joke-buddy for the first incident?
Would he be the one Beauchamp watches the news with laughing at "silly Republicans"?
Sometimes I read witty and snappy comebacks like that and wish that there was this Emeril button that I could push that would fulfill my need to hear the phrase "BAM!" at times most needed.
Posted by: Nth at August 02, 2007 05:38 PM (MFLt3)
Fortunately, Ace has no credibility to lose, although his pathetic efforts to gin up an Internet "scoop" can be kind of painful to watch, as here...
Posted by: bb at August 02, 2007 05:39 PM (pHQiN)
Posted by: Kaitain at August 02, 2007 05:41 PM (4ep6C)
And Scott's soul hadn't even been disfigured yet by all the 'wars crimes he had seen or committed'. Doesn't war usually turn you terribly cynical after you've fought and not weeks before you arrive?
Posted by: Dusty at August 02, 2007 05:42 PM (GJLeQ)
TNR did nothing to confirm Beauchamp's story as far as I am concerned. I eagerly await the result of the Army's investigation and the subsequent punishment of this slimeball. No one deserves it more.
As to TNR - they are never going to admit they screwed up and since they are such a tiny, inconsequential magazine now, it really doesn't matter I guess.
This whole thing only proves one thing - the spirit of Stephen Glass is alive and well there.
Posted by: NSC at August 02, 2007 05:43 PM (oXi5C)
That's the point I made over at JYB. Since this all happened prior to his entry into the combat theater, his behavior was entirely due to his being an asshole, not to the toll of combat weariness.
Posted by: geoff at August 02, 2007 05:44 PM (rD0xE)
Posted by: Sarcastic Lizard at August 02, 2007 05:44 PM (FgxdU)
I read that piece from TNR and was very surprised that they felt comfortable posting it. The cheerleading in the comments section was odd, too. It's as if nobody understands what fact-checking means anymore.
It's not an "error" to claim something happened at a FOB in Iraq when it actually happened in another country altogether at an entirely different time. That is an outright lie, one perpetrated by the author and supported by a no-nothing editor.
Shame on TNR and Scott Thomas.
Posted by: H2U at August 02, 2007 05:44 PM (TZKUw)
Posted by: OregonMuse at August 02, 2007 05:45 PM (mq30m)
If I do say so myself, Geoff just noticed something extremely significant and disgusting about Beauchamp's character.
Posted by: see-dubya at August 02, 2007 05:47 PM (+TdwW)
"The fact is, the entire premise of Beauchamp’s story has been vaporized, and TNR has published a lame pre-combat anecdote as an insightful look at the effects of combat on the soldier’s psyche. And yet they’re pleased with their level of fact-checking."
Posted by: geoff at August 02, 2007 05:49 PM (rD0xE)
Posted by: Mr Minority at August 02, 2007 05:49 PM (NJi0O)
Posted by: Dusty at August 02, 2007 05:50 PM (GJLeQ)
Wow. Five whole people from Beauhunk's company. And one of these wasn't a witness, by TNR's own admission he heard it through the grapevine. That's impressive.
Isn't TNR on vacation right now?
Posted by: IllTemperedCur at August 02, 2007 05:50 PM (tVbxd)
Posted by: bb at August 02, 2007 05:50 PM (pHQiN)
Posted by: dave at August 02, 2007 05:52 PM (SPXk5)
Some guy whose name they can't release (and who now apparently won't corroborate to you even if you ask him), said everything was true. And we should believe it because the guys who make the Bradley say sure, it's technically possible to run over a dog. And a geography professor said Iraq was in the middle east. And a doctor said that facial injuries can happen to women, too.
Even if everything turns out to be true, what TNR just put out sounds like they're bullshitting.
Posted by: a4g at August 02, 2007 05:55 PM (bfr28)
Posted by: reliapundit at August 02, 2007 05:55 PM (+p6Q2)
Posted by: dave at August 02, 2007 05:55 PM (SPXk5)
It sure says a lot that TNR now knows that the story was an enormous fabrication in most respects and won't apologize but rather tries to stir up a pathetic spin.
This is a major story, as far as I'm concerned. A US Soldier has admitted fabricating propaganda that slanders our war effort, and the magazine that printed it seems to be happy to help.
US Soldiers are wonderful people, but always find at least one of the most disgusting assholes mixed in each unit. Just the way it is. And they always are in the Military to serve thir own ego and occasionally even want to use their military bona fides to pull a John Kerry fake-hero thing.
Sad thing is, this whole fabricating horrors by soldiers at large act was a big part of Kerry's rise to fame. Kerry said he witnessed Jhengis Khan like atrocities, but did not. Democrats don't care, because it's got to be true somewhere, right?
Soldiers are either kids or monsters, never noble smart folks doing what must be done. this is a great story to continue pointing out that awful 'liberal' view.
Posted by: PJ at August 02, 2007 05:56 PM (Ic8TT)
When and where is pretty basic fact checking yet TNR couldn't handle that pre-publishing. I'll wait for the Army's investigation to be completed. I wouldn't trust TNR as far as I can spit.
Agreed. TNR has dug themselves quite the pit to end up being buried in if all of this turns out to be utter and complete crap, and considering i've found more things -here- to be truth than there....well....i'm going to be sticking with Ace on this one.
Posted by: Nth at August 02, 2007 05:57 PM (MFLt3)
The fake shemps may change, but the chickenhawk argument stays the same.
Posted by: IllTemperedCur at August 02, 2007 05:58 PM (tVbxd)
First you claimed that TNR's writer wasn't a solider. Wrong. Then you claimed that none of it happened. Wrong. Then you claimed that the magazine took an unscheduled vacation. Wrong. Now you're going to nitpick on the location of where they joked about the disfigured woman.
Give it up, nutcases! Your wingnut smear job is collapsing in a heap around you. Not even Matt Sanchez, the ex-gay, porn whore, can support you on this one. What jokers you are!
Posted by: JimBimbo at August 02, 2007 05:59 PM (s51YO)
Projection going on here in Internet chickenhawk windbaghdad...
Posted by: bb at August 02, 2007 05:59 PM (pHQiN)
Posted by: sinistar at August 02, 2007 06:01 PM (lMR62)
Posted by: bb at August 02, 2007 06:02 PM (pHQiN)
Posted by: sinistar at August 02, 2007 06:03 PM (lMR62)
Posted by: IllTemperedCur at August 02, 2007 06:03 PM (tVbxd)
Posted by: sinistar at August 02, 2007 06:04 PM (lMR62)
If any NCO had seen that crap, even in CONUS, that Beauchamp would have been thrown across the table. I don't think the Kuwait thing happened; TNR saw that their first lie could actually be proven false and moved to a second lie that would be harder to kill.
Did a soldier run around with a kid's skull on his head? Just because TNR said so, doesn't make it true. But we know now that no mass grave desecration occurred and that TNR was lying when it told that story. Al Qaeda obviously loves these stories. TNR is making money killing our men through these lies. Propaganda has a real effect on our casualties.
Posted by: PJ at August 02, 2007 06:04 PM (Ic8TT)
PJ,
I am in complete agreement that this is a major story. What frightens me the most is that there are left-leaning publications who feel *justified* in slandering soldiers simply to feed the liberal trolls that live under their bridge.
To quote Mugatu [Zoolander character]: "Doesn't anybody notice this? I feel like I'm taking crazy pills!"
Posted by: H2U at August 02, 2007 06:06 PM (TZKUw)
Posted by: Techie at August 02, 2007 06:06 PM (T+8Gr)
Posted by: JimBimbo at August 02, 2007 06:07 PM (s51YO)
Let me guess: if that "story" doesn't pan out, it'll turn out to have actually been "him and Scott" making fun of some chick with really bad acne in Secaucus, NJ, back in 1989.
Looks like TNR is determined to fly this one all the way into the ground.
Heh.
Posted by: Dead Career Sketch at August 02, 2007 06:08 PM (XUDZ2)
Posted by: JimBimbo at August 02, 2007 06:09 PM (s51YO)
Posted by: JimBimbo at August 02, 2007 06:09 PM (Q9CvA)
Posted by: Kaitain at August 02, 2007 06:12 PM (4ep6C)
Your intolerance of Matt Sanchez sexual preference notwithstanding, your opinions are utterly meaningless and full of bluster. That you cannot even *comprehend* why this Scott Thomas Beauchamp character and TNR are being scrutinized is beyond belief!
Scott Thomas Beauchamp *lied* about significant details. TNR failed to fact-check a story before printing it as absolute truth. Scott Thomas Beauchamp left a lovely history in his personal blogs, a history which describes perfectly his motivation for such tale-spinning. TNR has a tainted past with regards to truth-telling.
This is very clear to those of us who value honesty, integrity, and -- most importantly -- true service to this country. Scott Thomas did his country a disservice by slandering his fellow soldiers through publicized lies which I assume he was paid to tell. Are you going to even *attempt* to defend that behavior?
If not, STFU, and go back to your dwelling under the nearest bridge. Perhaps one straddling the Mississippi....too soon?
Posted by: H2U at August 02, 2007 06:12 PM (TZKUw)
Posted by: JimBimbo at August 02, 2007 06:12 PM (Q9CvA)
Posted by: IllTemperedCur at August 02, 2007 06:13 PM (tVbxd)
I'm a former US Army Sergeant. I've lost good friends in Iraq. But I also have opinions about things like labor unions and teaching and have no intention of teaching or working in a factory. It's just dumb to claim I have to.
I see that you offer no defense for the fact that virtually everything Beauchamp said was a lie. none of that mass grave desecration or burn victim joking happened in Iraq. You think trolling is fun. I think it's pretty pathetic. You are trying as hard as you can to defend someone you know is lying and using those lies to help his writing career at the expense of our soldier's morale and public respect. I think that's sad. You think you're cute and funny and witty by insulting people without actually making any arguments or taking a stand.
you think the fact that you finally managed to elicit respnses makes you a successful troll for wasting our time and getting under our skin. You're so wrong. We're already so god damned irritated at people like you and TNR who take this shit so lightly that you can't really get us any worse. Plus, we had every intention of being on this site reading and posting about this shit.
You, on the other hand, are so bothered by what we conservatives are starting to accomplish against your wierd interests that you come here and scream and jump up and down over and over till you get a response. Sounds like Ace got your number. Keep on trolling. It's affecting you more than me. Ace has a had a real effect on what used to be a respected publication, so it's just a tiny part of that game that people will troll his blog. For you though, it's probably hours of your life before you go to the store for some cheetos if mom gives you five bucks.
Posted by: PJ at August 02, 2007 06:15 PM (Ic8TT)
Posted by: JimBimbo at August 02, 2007 06:15 PM (Q9CvA)
Posted by: joeindc44 at August 02, 2007 06:18 PM (za2Xz)
Abu Ghraib is proof of how great the US Army is. We root out our bad apples and send them to jail. Our soldiers will tell the authorities about these problems. Cover-ups fail. Are you only satisfied if soldiers are 100% perfect and morally flawless? That only happens in Orwellian nations like Venezuela or the USSR. In reality-land, the US Army is about as good as it gets.
Again, you're not upsetting me as much as I'm upsetting you. I'm not stamping my feet at the fact that some nut is trolling Ace's proof that TNR told so many lies.
It's really sad and it would bother me, but I'm plenty bothered already by more important stuff.
Posted by: PJ at August 02, 2007 06:20 PM (Ic8TT)
Ace, you really ought to think twice about fabricating material under my signature, and then turning right around and accusing Pvt. Beauchamp of lying. It is prima facie evidence of your hypocrisy and lack of credibility. Why should anyone trust anything on this site when you falsify material posted under my name, and then brag about doing it?
Posted by: JimBimbo at August 02, 2007 06:20 PM (s51YO)
Posted by: JimBimbo at August 02, 2007 06:21 PM (Q9CvA)
Ace should be flattered. BB and BumJumbo made a beeline for his comments thread to put us back in our place.
Of all the conservative blogs out here, Ace must really piss them off the most.
For that, we are all grateful.
Posted by: see-dubya at August 02, 2007 06:21 PM (+TdwW)
Posted by: JimBimbo at August 02, 2007 06:22 PM (Q9CvA)
Posted by: JimBimbo at August 02, 2007 06:24 PM (XUDZ2)
I don't like these people posting false messages under my name.
I like a nice, droopy pair of heavy-hangin' trouser-tits.
I'm all about the balls.
And the bleathery texture.
Posted by: JimBimbo at August 02, 2007 06:25 PM (1UCRY)
If he were heterosexual, I'd be saying the same things. However, given that Ace and his buddies have been throwing anti-homosexual slurs at me, I think it's ironic, to say the least, that he'd be sourcing material from the likes of Matt Sanchez.
Posted by: JimBimbo at August 02, 2007 06:25 PM (s51YO)
It's only going to get better. Elton John may not like the internet, but it's here to stay.
Posted by: PJ at August 02, 2007 06:26 PM (Ic8TT)
Posted by: JimBimbo at August 02, 2007 06:26 PM (Q9CvA)
You pathetic conservatives and your sad clinging to the so-called "space time continuum".
Posted by: Techie at August 02, 2007 06:26 PM (T+8Gr)
I'm just your typical straight guy who likes the feel of a warm sack on cheek.
Posted by: JimBimbo at August 02, 2007 06:26 PM (1UCRY)
Posted by: bb at August 02, 2007 06:26 PM (SPXk5)
Posted by: JimBimbo at August 02, 2007 06:26 PM (XUDZ2)
Posted by: Adolf Hitler at August 02, 2007 06:27 PM (0d45V)
Posted by: JimBimbo at August 02, 2007 06:27 PM (1UCRY)
Conservatism inspires hate from those folks, but that's rather ordinary. It's the fact that we have a sense of humor that really drives them over the edge.
Posted by: IllTemperedCur at August 02, 2007 06:27 PM (tVbxd)
Posted by: JimBimbo at August 02, 2007 06:27 PM (XUDZ2)
Posted by: Golden Boy at August 02, 2007 06:28 PM (8CfR3)
I don't like cock. I do not "eat" it.
I do, however, sometimes ask my gym buddies to dip their balls into my Lactaid.
Just gives the milk a nice "egg nog-y" flavor.
Well, ball nog-y, at least. But that's better.
God I love balls.
Posted by: JimBimbo at August 02, 2007 06:28 PM (1UCRY)
Posted by: JimBimbo at August 02, 2007 06:28 PM (Q9CvA)
Cool. No matter how it...er...comes out, we both win, right?
Posted by: JimBimbo at August 02, 2007 06:29 PM (XUDZ2)
JimBimbo, you sound a little jealous of Matt Sanchez.
And all the attention he gets from Ace.
You did get here awfully quickly, you know.
Posted by: see-dubya at August 02, 2007 06:29 PM (+TdwW)
Oh crap, forgot his love of trolling. OK, the four things JimBimbo is getting at are...
Posted by: geoff at August 02, 2007 06:29 PM (rD0xE)
Posted by: bb at August 02, 2007 06:29 PM (SPXk5)
Posted by: JimBimbo at August 02, 2007 06:30 PM (Q9CvA)
Don't ask me how I knew that.
Posted by: JimBimbo at August 02, 2007 06:31 PM (tVbxd)
Scott Thomas Beauchamp is a meanie!
Holy cow are you people desperate.
Posted by: JimBimbo at August 02, 2007 06:31 PM (s51YO)
Can we put down the childish insults get back to the most important topic of the day, you chickenhawk assholes?
Cock. Can anyone confim where it is? 'cause I've got an FOB for it right here in my mouth.
Posted by: JimBimbo at August 02, 2007 06:31 PM (JefgB)
Posted by: JimBimbo at August 02, 2007 06:32 PM (Q9CvA)
The whole point of Shock Troops, was to prove the distastorous affects that war has on otherwise normal people. It warps them and makes them do things they otherwise wouldn't. This is standard liberal agit-prop, demonstrate the horrors of war and help drive the public against it. Try not to be a complete moron.
By admiting that Beauchamp was in Kuwait and had never been in war let alone Iraq, possibly the most damning anecdote in his story, he and his pals yucking it up over a badly injured woman, has been totaling debunked. Beauchamp either made up the entire incident or, in the unlikely case that it is true, he only succeed in outing himself as a complete and total douchebag. Is that so hard to understand you halfwit?
The second two incidents have not been proven at all. All we have is TNR's claim that yet another anonymous soldier claims he witnessed and participated in the same scummy things Beauchamp claims he did. That ain't proof of crap.
The only thing we have proof of so far is that Beauchamp is a liar and a lowlife. He's one of yours, I'm not surprised you recognize his type.
Posted by: JackStraw at August 02, 2007 06:32 PM (t+mja)
Yes, he does seem rather -- well-acquainted with the plot lines of Sanchez's films, doesn't he?
Posted by: Dead Career Sketch at August 02, 2007 06:32 PM (XUDZ2)
Good point, Geoff. "And he's still be acting if it weren't for those damned neocons like...Ace!" He knows a lot more about Matt Sanchez's film career than I do.
I mean, me, I can't really look at that stuff.
Posted by: see-dubya at August 02, 2007 06:32 PM (+TdwW)
Posted by: LifeTrek at August 02, 2007 06:32 PM (obOTN)
Posted by: JimBimbo at August 02, 2007 06:33 PM (Q9CvA)
Posted by: JimBimbo at August 02, 2007 06:34 PM (tVbxd)
Posted by: JimBimbo at August 02, 2007 06:34 PM (SPXk5)
Children, just admit you were wrong, and apologize. Shit happens, even to you.
Posted by: JimBimbo at August 02, 2007 06:35 PM (s51YO)
Posted by: bb at August 02, 2007 06:36 PM (SPXk5)
Posted by: JimBimbo at August 02, 2007 06:36 PM (JefgB)
Penis is rising - Going on the downlow
According to all sources, JimBimbo will blow
Cause tonight for the first time
Just about four o'clock
For the first time in history
It's gonna start raining cocks.
Posted by: JimBimbo at August 02, 2007 06:37 PM (XUDZ2)
Posted by: JimBimbo at August 02, 2007 06:37 PM (Q9CvA)
Posted by: sinistar at August 02, 2007 06:37 PM (lMR62)
You brought up Sanchez's sexual endeavors for a specific reason: to discredit his opinions and statements. That makes you a bigot, buddy.
Posted by: H2U at August 02, 2007 06:37 PM (TZKUw)
Posted by: JimBimbo at August 02, 2007 06:38 PM (Q9CvA)
Posted by: bb at August 02, 2007 06:39 PM (SPXk5)
Posted by: JimBimbo at August 02, 2007 06:39 PM (JefgB)
I understand what you're saying, JimBimbo. You think Matt Sanchez is a morally compromised fabulist whose on-the-scene reports from Iraq can't be trusted.
Unlike Scott Thomas Beauchamp.
Posted by: see-dubya at August 02, 2007 06:39 PM (+TdwW)
Posted by: JimBimbo at August 02, 2007 06:39 PM (Q9CvA)
Posted by: A Cock And Some Balls at August 02, 2007 06:40 PM (1UCRY)
And you claim the only thing that the PFC lied about was where one event happened. Aside from the fact that he actually lied about a mass graves existence and a mass desecration of the same by a full unit, and aside from the fact that he also claimed that a unit in Iraq was making fun of that woman (ostensibly because of what war does to the soul or some crap like that) rather than the event now supposedly occuring in a peaceful environment... anyway aside from that fac tthat these admissions today concede enormous fallacies, there is NO REASON TO BELIEVE THE NEW STORY. We only have two sources, one is anonymous if he exists at all, and admits that he tolerated or participated in making fun of a burn victim if not the other things he says happened. The guy is not credible if he has no morals. Obviously you can't actually believe this source, and you certainly can't believe the PFC.
To put it plainly, there is no reason to believe this story. The mass grave incident and the DFAC incident should have dozens of witnesses who would gladly condemn the incidents with their own names. Why is nobody coming forward? All I have to say is there is no reason to believe the new story either. Your claim that only a few details have changed shows that you stand firm in trusting this monster. And you do it because you hate Republicans. You are so full of hate that you are ready to lynch over obvious lies. You're the kind of cretin that always seems to be the loudest fool who beleives the liar. You're the useful idiot.
Thanks for the opportunity to continue. Keeping the controversy is tough when Ace has nailed TNR's ass to the wall so well, so thanks for working so hard to give me a reason to explain again what is wrong with their account. You are a big help to the conservatives, and even you should realize it at this point.
Posted by: PJ at August 02, 2007 06:40 PM (Ic8TT)
Posted by: JimBimbo at August 02, 2007 06:40 PM (Q9CvA)
Posted by: sinistar at August 02, 2007 06:40 PM (lMR62)
Jimbimbo - shit doesn't happen with an entire watermelon shoved up your ass. hth. [sorry, I was in the middle of ejaculating when I accidentally hit post]
Posted by: bb at August 02, 2007 06:40 PM (SPXk5)
And by "my ears" I mean "the balls connected to me by a flap of sweaty skin."
Posted by: Stinky Hairy Maint at August 02, 2007 06:41 PM (1UCRY)
Posted by: JimBimbo at August 02, 2007 06:41 PM (Q9CvA)
I'm gonna go out to run and let myself get
Absolutely soaking wet!
It's raining cocks! Hallelujah!
It's raining cocks! Journos and anchormen!
Long and thick
Dick cuisine
Rough and tough and strong and mean
Posted by: JimBimbo at August 02, 2007 06:41 PM (XUDZ2)
JimBimbo has made some points worth considering---you guys should really lay off all the juvenile ID jacking.
And let him get back to cock jacking.
Posted by: Cuffy Meigs at August 02, 2007 06:41 PM (JefgB)
Posted by: JimBimbo's Asshole at August 02, 2007 06:42 PM (DG+tE)
Posted by: JimBimbo at August 02, 2007 06:43 PM (SPXk5)
Posted by: JimBimbo's Asshole at August 02, 2007 06:43 PM (6YyJC)
Posted by: JimBimbo's Accomodating Asshole at August 02, 2007 06:43 PM (1UCRY)
Posted by: sinistar at August 02, 2007 06:44 PM (lMR62)
Posted by: JimBimbo at August 02, 2007 06:44 PM (Q9CvA)
Posted by: JimBimbo's Zucchini at August 02, 2007 06:44 PM (DG+tE)
Posted by: ace at August 02, 2007 06:45 PM (1UCRY)
Posted by: Jimbo's Vegetable-Filled Rectum at August 02, 2007 06:46 PM (1UCRY)
Posted by: JimBimbeauchamp at August 02, 2007 06:47 PM (JefgB)
Posted by: bb at August 02, 2007 06:48 PM (SPXk5)
I can personnally attest to Private Beauchamps honesty. I';ve spent time in Germany, a former war zone I might add. And the horrors of that war, and that long flight to Kuwait will drive a man to say all kinds of things to injured women. I recall driving passed a concentration camp on the way to Munich; an ordeal that may have caused me to drink heavily during my time in Bavaria.
We must withdraw from Germany and Kuwait now, before they destroy more soldiers souls.
Posted by: Poppy at August 02, 2007 06:48 PM (dJFjD)
Posted by: see-dubya at August 02, 2007 06:49 PM (+TdwW)
Posted by: Wickedpinto at August 02, 2007 06:49 PM (QTv8u)
Posted by: JimBimbo at August 02, 2007 06:49 PM (tVbxd)
Posted by: JimBimbo at August 02, 2007 06:50 PM (1UCRY)
Posted by: Bosk at August 02, 2007 06:50 PM (+aNmG)
Posted by: JimBimbo at August 02, 2007 06:50 PM (Q9CvA)
Posted by: Bookworm at August 02, 2007 06:51 PM (NX/Bj)
It was a very complete, and almost instantaneous post, as evidenced by the number of comments here and the secondary traffic to JYB. Consider this thread a testament to the success of your posting.
Posted by: geoff at August 02, 2007 06:51 PM (rD0xE)
Speech, ballsuckings. Whatever.
Posted by: ace at August 02, 2007 06:52 PM (1UCRY)
Posted by: JimBimbo at August 02, 2007 06:52 PM (JefgB)
Posted by: JimBimbo at August 02, 2007 06:52 PM (Q9CvA)
w.p. this is too funny and really what a better way to diminish some fucknuts..
You think logic will get to them? I think not, might as well let the boys and gals have some fun at their expense. I'm laughing so hard I'm cryin.
Posted by: Bosk at August 02, 2007 06:53 PM (+aNmG)
Just something about them.
I do enjoy fine pair of pocket-knockers.
Posted by: JimBimbo at August 02, 2007 06:54 PM (1UCRY)
I think the real JimBimbo sulked off.
Posted by: see-dubya at August 02, 2007 06:54 PM (+TdwW)
Who knows? He may just be a really really bad writer. However, he did make the JewNewYork comment on his myspace page.
Posted by: dave at August 02, 2007 06:54 PM (SPXk5)
Yeah, I figured, humiliate him, all cool, I just wanted to voice my own discomfort is all ace.
Posted by: Wickedpinto at August 02, 2007 06:54 PM (QTv8u)
of gender, brings us by a commodius vicus of ejaculation back to Fire Island and Environs.
Posted by: ScottBeauCum at August 02, 2007 06:55 PM (XUDZ2)
Who knows? He may just be a really really bad writer. However, he did make the JewNewYork comment on his myspace page.
Posted by: dave at August 02, 2007 06:55 PM (SPXk5)
Posted by: JimBimbo at August 02, 2007 06:55 PM (JefgB)
Tough call.
I'd go with the jockey-juggs.
Posted by: JimBimbo at August 02, 2007 06:55 PM (1UCRY)
JimBimbo:
Who said anything about human cock? Nobody here accused you of being a homosexual (though there is a video on Youtube that is called Gregg and Joseph Imbimbo's Wedding Video), because we're all referring to your rather distasteful penchant for sucking donkey cocks. Gosh, I'd never think to accuse someone of homosexuality, just because they disagree with me politically, or because they have so much trouble reading the facts of this TNR matter and making rational judgments about it. No, we all think you suck donkey cock because the photos don't lie!
Posted by: Sharkman at August 02, 2007 06:55 PM (gzbD0)
Posted by: Wickedpinto at August 02, 2007 06:56 PM (QTv8u)
Posted by: JimBimbo at August 02, 2007 06:58 PM (JefgB)
Did I say "leg" man?
I meant I'm a guy's stinky starfish man.
I like the way they seem to follow you around the room, like they're looking at you. Spooky.
Posted by: bb at August 02, 2007 06:58 PM (1UCRY)
wink wink
Posted by: stinky starfish at August 02, 2007 07:00 PM (SPXk5)
Posted by: JimBimbo's Stinky Starfish at August 02, 2007 07:01 PM (DG+tE)
You're not being paranoid, you're being crazy. But that's what wingnuts are for.
You brought up Sanchez's sexual endeavors for a specific reason: to discredit his opinions and statements. That makes you a bigot, buddy.
Your outrage is so selective that it's a caricature. I mention Sanchez because he's such a joke that Ace's reliance on him shows he desperate you people are. And it's bizarre, given that Sanchez is a gay porn prostitute and this website is full of anti-gay invective.
Posted by: JimBimbo at August 02, 2007 07:03 PM (s51YO)
Maybe if she dumps him, JimBimbo can be there to comfort his hero Scott. Of course, Scott may not swing that way but JimBimbo will stand ready and willing to suck his dick as needed.
Good luck JimBimbo, you and Beauchamp deserve each other.
Posted by: Drew at August 02, 2007 07:03 PM (hlYel)
Listen I was there for all of it. Beauchamp can't do anything, even take a shit, without me being there. It is all bullshit.
Posted by: Scott Thomas Beauchamp's Ass at August 02, 2007 07:05 PM (+GRGs)
Sanchez reported the melted woman wasn't in Iraq.
TNR reported the melted woman wasn't in Iraq.
The problem is...? I mean, apart from your psychopathic fixation on a dude's zipper-rack.
Posted by: ace at August 02, 2007 07:05 PM (1UCRY)
Good job Elspeth!
Posted by: Drew at August 02, 2007 07:06 PM (hlYel)
Posted by: JimD at August 02, 2007 07:07 PM (SPXk5)
Jimbo, have you got something against cocks? What's the beef dude?
Are you a COCKAPHOBIC?
Is that it? You hate cock so much that you ignore it while you just play with balls and buttholes?
You cockaphobics are all the same, balls, balls, asshole, balls, maint...
You need serious help dude, and a good portion of COCK!
Posted by: Dick at August 02, 2007 07:08 PM (gwfvN)
I'm not outraged. I'm simply calling a spade a spade.
You're a bigot. You use someone's sex life -- acts that have no bearing on the discussion -- to try and minimize his statements. That is unacceptable.
And this website doesn't engage in anti-gay invective. It engages in humor that takes advantage of the abundance of homosexuality in todays culture. This is the result of the liberal tactic to squelch alternative thought that we now call political correctness.
Ace doesn't insult gays in a manner that you did to Matt Sanchez. He simply uses homosexuality as a literary device, one whose purpose is entirely humorous. Your homosexual reference was used in a vindictive way -- as such, I label you a bigot.
Posted by: H2U at August 02, 2007 07:09 PM (TZKUw)
Posted by: JimBimbo's Asshole and JimBimbo's Maint at August 02, 2007 07:09 PM (DG+tE)
That is what I said in #12, before Jimbo & bb showed up.
Thank You Jimbo & bb for proving me correct.
Posted by: Mr Minority at August 02, 2007 07:12 PM (gwfvN)
Ah, well, time to move on. Cock don't eat itself, you know.
Posted by: ScottBeauCum at August 02, 2007 07:12 PM (XUDZ2)
Marry me.
Oh and JimD,
Please marry me to. I've never met anyone like you.
Accept H2U.
I'm also considering proposing to Drew.
Posted by: Scott Beauchamp at August 02, 2007 07:12 PM (1UCRY)
TNR has confirmed one thing with absolute moral certainty: their correspondent is a complete asshole with a depraved and sadistic sense of humor. He brought it with him to the army and he brought it with him to the Middle East.
That's what is significant about the fact that he ridiculed the 'melted woman' before he even entered the war zone. That's why he had to move the incident - if it happened at all - from pre-deployment Kuwait to Iraq. He and his buddy weren't calloused by war. They were shallow, callous, and cruel assholes before they arrived.
I strongly suspect that Ace is right about the soldier with the child's skull on his head. The soldier displayed a depraved sense of humor that is remarkably consistent with the comedic stylings of Private Beauchamp himself. The image of soldiers dropping shovels and doubling over in laughter is hard to believe, but it's not hard to believe that the asshole who thought it was funny in the first place would imagine that everybody else thought it was funny.
TNR wanted to show the dehumanizing effects of war in order to serve an antiwar political agenda. So they hired a political activist with a cruel sense of humor and yawning deficit of decent human feelings. By choosing Beauchamp as their Iraq stand-in, TNR didn't prove the soul-deadening effect of war; they proved the soul-deadening effect of Bush-derangement and liberalism.
Posted by: lyle at August 02, 2007 07:13 PM (niPFN)
Posted by: Scott Beauchamp at August 02, 2007 07:14 PM (1UCRY)
Did I miss something or does someone have severe -possibly intentional -reading comprehension?
Is there a link to this report by Sanchez, because this is the most I've read Sanchez on the subject:
No one has seen or heard of the melting lady. No soldier would confuse an officer with a contractor. It just wouldn't happen. It's a small base and most people have seen each other. I just got back today and all these people I haven't seen in a month are welcoming me back. They don't know me, but they've seen me before.
Pretty clear he's referring to FOB Falcon, not on Iraq as a whole...
Posted by: topsecretk9 at August 02, 2007 07:15 PM (wdfQS)
I haven't had time to read all of TNRs bull, but it looks like they are in cohorts with these a-holes or are just plain gullibly stoopid. The 'confirming' guy at the chowhall says this:
'it was just me and Scott, the day that I made that comment. We were pretty loud. She was sitting at the table behind me. We were at the end of the table.'
Ahh, gee, just me and Scott, we were at the end of the table so noone was next to us, so no more coboration available sorry.
If I understand TNR and the Diarists point, since this occurred while Scott was a diarist for TNR and had never been in a war zone, the ACTUAL moral of the story is LIBERAL JOUNALISTS LIKE TO MAKE FUN OF WOUNDED WARRIORS.
Now they are finally telling the truth..
Posted by: Poppy at August 02, 2007 07:24 PM (dJFjD)
I'd say "don't feed the trolls", but people have been saying that for years and it never does any good. Can we ignore this worthless, ignorant piece of shit please?
Posted by: Amos at August 02, 2007 07:24 PM (ckdWX)
It's one guy. Once you get rid of all the irrelevant filler, it's clear that TNR is quoting only one soldier.
It's my opinion that the degenerate prick described by STB in his bloviations are, indeed, himself. He mocked a disfigured woman, and he desecrated a child's skull. His delusional blog is proof that he thinks he's a lot funnier than he really is. He reads like a narcissistic fool that others only tolerate, and so he creates crowds of approving onlookers for himself. He is his own center of attention.
Posted by: Redhead Infidel at August 02, 2007 07:24 PM (Zb0EV)
""""Am I being paranoid here, or is there may than a whiff of anti-Semitism in the corroborator's claim that the bone fragment fit like a "yarmulke"?""""
I think if you go back to Scott Thomas Beauchamps blog, you will find some anti-semitic references both from him and one of his friends.
Posted by: Poppy at August 02, 2007 07:33 PM (dJFjD)
Having been in the Air Force, I can tell you that Ace hit the nail on the head here:
What milbloggers found absurd here was not that one soldier might engage in bad behavior. They found it implausible that a soldier would do something like this and parade around his fellow soldiers, including, one assumes, his NCOs, without being disciplined, without even simply being told to put the skull down, and in fact applauded for his "clowning" and permitted to continue wearing the skull for the rest of the day
My most vivid memory of PME (Professional Military Education) for NCOs was being reminded over and over and over again the things that happened in Vietnam, and how they happen: NCOs that fail to maintain order and discipline. Basically they told us that when you let this shit happen, you and anyone you let do it are going to Leavenworth.
You see, its a no-brainer that stuff like this can happen, and in fact has. But senior NCOs and perhaps officers and whole platoons just thought this was cool?
Plus, as I read Private Jenjis Kahn's diary, I can hear The Doors singing "this is the end ...." in my ear. Plainly put, it is derivative of every Hollywood "good men dehumanized by war" story. It would be corny and funny if it didn't piss me the hell off so much.
Posted by: your mom at August 02, 2007 07:34 PM (/jWdA)
What are the chances some of these 'confirmations' went through the wife??
Just saying, if nobody is talking to Beauchamp...I would think the Army is not denying his access to his wife?? How did TNR know who else to talk to to get confirmations? Funny how she is completely absent from the entire story except the first paragraph.
Posted by: Poppy at August 02, 2007 07:36 PM (dJFjD)
Posted by: huxley at August 02, 2007 07:37 PM (sNa3o)
It's clear from TNR's own self-serving 'report' that Private Beauchamp was a smug, contemptible lowlife all along.
Neither JimBimbo nor bb even seem to be aware of the fact. Neither considers it noteworthy that the longtime Democratic Party activist that they are defending is a sadistic sack of shit. He mocked a woman disfigured in service to her country. He got a big laugh out of grave desecration.
JimBimbo, bb: are you and your liberal friends so deranged by hatred that you can't even recognize your own lack of minimal moral standards?
Posted by: lyle at August 02, 2007 07:38 PM (niPFN)
What did they tell you about torture? What did they tell you about murdering a fellow soldier and then covering it up?
JimBimbo, bb: are you and your liberal friends so deranged by hatred that you can't even recognize your own lack of minimal moral standards?
Well let's see about that. Ace and his buddies see a story in TNR. First, they bleat that TNR's correspondent isn't in the military. That was a lie. Then they say the stuff never happened. Turns out it's been confirned, re-confirmed, and re-reconfirmed. Then they say that the whole TNR staff is taking a surprise vacation. Another lie.
So, what do they do? The right thing, as in admit their errors and apologize? Nope, they keep up the smear job. Now the writer is a "sadist," and even though he told the truth they chant, "liar" in hopes that they can get a nice, big mob to do the same.
And who's their big backup source? Get this: Even though they miss no chance to spew hatred against gays, they rely on a gay porn whore who fashions himself a "reporter" in the Mideast. And you presume to instruct me on "morals"? Why, you pathetic, whining little joke of a wingnut.
Posted by: JimBimbo at August 02, 2007 07:45 PM (s51YO)
On the dogs vs Bradleys, they've added a bit of new info about how it might be possible to hit a dog with a Bradley - it is at least somewhat plausible. Left unaddressed is how enough dog would remain to smile, twitch etc., or how frequently this occurred. I suppose TNR will claim that the whole twitching and smiling thing was just literary stylings.
There is no support for the story of crashing a Bradley though walls, barricades etc., and (apparently) suffering no consequences.
As far as I can tell, TNR is basically saying that SB had one (or maybe two) dickhead buddies. This is somewhat supported by his Myspace page, IIRC. Perhaps he and/or his budd(y)(ies) did do a few of the less outrageous dickish things described in the diary (making snide comments about a wounded woman such that she heard and was offended) or wearing a piece of skull for a short time. Of course, SB then went and massively exagerated the incidents, adding his flowery literary touches and making it seem as if these acts enjoyed widespread approval/tolerance. It is the last point that is really key - if these are just the (inflated) actions of one, two or even three shitbirds, goofing off when not under the eye of authority, then it is certainly a bit disturbing, but given that one of the shitbirds is a self-described opponent of the war, who only joined the army to get "cred" for his literary efforts, then it is hardly an indicitment of the whole US Army; it is just the confession of a sick little freak, and the Army is only really culpable for not booting his ass sooner. It is the implication that these misdeeds were applauded by a large number of soldiers (and ignored by officers and NCOs) that is really the indictment of the Army, and that is what we wingnuts are here to rebut. And given TNR's failure to provide substantial corroboration, I think we're doing a good job.
As to the assetion by some on the dextrosphere that SB was not really a soldier, well clearly they were in error, but they were the minority. I personally speculated that her was a REMF, and I was wrong, though interestingly, he never actually provides any diaries of actual combat, which I find curious, given that SB is clearly such a hard-boiled, ate up, life-taker and heart-breaker. I'd also note that, reading his blog, the guy clearly joined the Army for just this purpose - does that make him an infiltrator or an agent provocateur?
Posted by: holdfast at August 02, 2007 07:45 PM (Gzb30)
More crap from TNR:
""The recollections of these three soldiers differ from Beauchamp's on one significant detail (the only fact in the piece that we have determined to be inaccurate): They say the conversation occurred at Camp Buehring, in Kuwait, prior to the unit's arrival in Iraq. When presented with this important discrepancy, Beauchamp acknowledged his error. We sincerely regret this mistake. """
If the rest of what TNR says is accurate then '''''They say the conversation occurred '''' has to be a lie, because the friend says JUST THE TWO OF THEM were at the chow hall. So the 'theys' in the article NEVER actually confirmed any of the actual story, they would have only known about it from Beauchamp or his 'friend', which means they are just talking about another story Beauchamp made up and told them.
TNR really has to do better, but you can't put a dress on a pig.
Posted by: Poppy at August 02, 2007 07:45 PM (dJFjD)
Who MADE UP THE STORY OF A DISFIGURED WOMAN! (Didn't make up the story of a disfigured woman);
Who CREATED THE IDEA THAT A BRADLEY CAN RUN OVER A DOG OUT OF WHOLE CLOTH! THEY CAN'T DO THAT! (They can, and the company that makes them attests to this);
Who WHOLLY INVENTED OBSERVING THE CHILDREN'S BONES OF CHILDREN (He didn't).
Those goalposts do move fast, don't they?
Posted by: Hiya at August 02, 2007 07:52 PM (AuOAo)
Posted by: JimBimbo at August 02, 2007 07:55 PM (s51YO)
You notice TNR does not say:
TNR contacted the manufacturer of the Bradley Fighting Vehicle System, where a spokesman confirmed that the vehicle can cut a dog in two and leave it still holding its head up and smiling at the sun as Beauchamp described.
Posted by: Poppy at August 02, 2007 07:55 PM (dJFjD)
In fact, they tell you an awful lot. They give you case studies of real incidents to detail the slow creep of moral rot. They also tell you that it happens most frequently on remote deployments, forward deployments, and in combat zones in particular.
Hey, I've never been in combat myself, and we all know what rotten atrocities have happened at the hands of even US troops. But what you might not understand is that the Armed Services of the US are pretty good at learning lessons, and you might be surprised at the depth of the training of the average enlisted guy/gal gets on these matters.
But did these things happen? My money says no.
Posted by: your mom at August 02, 2007 07:56 PM (/jWdA)
Who SAW THE INJURED WOMAN EVERY DAY IN HIS MESS HALL IN IRAQ. (She was in Kuwait)
Who WAS EMOTIONALLY SCARRED BY THE HORRORS OF WAR INTO LAUGHING AT HER (actually, he was just a plain old asshole all along, but saw a chance to blame that fact on Bush.)
Posted by: see-dubya at August 02, 2007 07:56 PM (+TdwW)
Jimbimbo: Thanks for proving my point.
Posted by: lyle at August 02, 2007 07:58 PM (niPFN)
Ace, you and your little minions need to do a better job. Everything you've claimed so far has come up empty.
Unlike my ass.
Which is filled with ... do I really have to say it?
{lipless mouth clamping}
{face reddening}
{eyes watering}
Posted by: JimBimbo at August 02, 2007 08:00 PM (uOvAE)
Hiya,
Given your jounalistic standards, Beauchamp could have said he witnessed Jews being stuffed into ovens in Iraq...given that he was in a country, where there were Jews and they were once put in ovens.
I guess you and TNR make a nice fit, they pretend not to lie, and you pretend they don't.
Posted by: Poppy at August 02, 2007 08:00 PM (dJFjD)
COCK!!!one!!tilda!!!
Posted by: JimBimbo at August 02, 2007 08:01 PM (uOvAE)
Who gives a fuck about your opinions on unions and teaching and the tastiness of Bush's asshole? We need boots on the ground in Baghdad, to make Teh Surge work! So stop your sniveling, Gramps, pick up your walker and M-16, and get out there to fight the Clash of Civilizations! It's incredible the kind of Islamofascist America-hating hippie slackers you find hanging around Ace's comment threads.
Posted by: bb at August 02, 2007 08:01 PM (pHQiN)
Posted by: bb at August 02, 2007 08:03 PM (uOvAE)
WHO WADED IN 2 FEET OF SHIT IN THE STREETS! (no proof)
Posted by: Mr Minority at August 02, 2007 08:04 PM (gwfvN)
Posted by: Poppy at August 02, 2007 08:06 PM (dJFjD)
"Even as I was reveling in the laughter my words had provoked, I was simultaneously horrified and ashamed at what I had just said. In a strange way, though, I found the shame comforting. I was relieved to still be shocked by my own cruelty--to still be able to recognize that the things we soldiers found funny were not, in fact, funny."
Note that in the quote from SB, it is HIS words, but in its "corroboration" TNR quotes the other soldier saying "We were really poking fun at her; it was just me and Scott, the day that I made that comment."
Posted by: holdfast at August 02, 2007 08:07 PM (Gzb30)
WHO DOO DOO DAT COME OUT THE COLON'S MOUTH? (Not sure I understand the question. I'm guessing this JimBimbo fellow.)
WHO BLEW UP DA OWL? (It was Amirai Baraka.)
Posted by: see-dubya at August 02, 2007 08:09 PM (+TdwW)
I am confused. Which claim did "Scott Thomas" make?:
a. I am a callous dipshit. I saw a woman with a burned and disfigured face, and I joined in mocking her, loudly enough for her to hear and run away crying.
b. I am a sensitive person, but the Iraq war made me act like a callous dipshit. I saw a woman with a burned and disfigured face, and I joined in mocking her, loudly enough for her to hear and run away crying.
Which claim did Scott make?
Well, which one? If you do not think it matters, please clearly explain your reasoning.
Posted by: sherlock at August 02, 2007 08:12 PM (ojW85)
Posted by: bb at August 02, 2007 08:12 PM (uOvAE)
Well sherlock, he made claim b - but he was actually dehumanized by Bush's evil war while still in Kuwait, prior to actually joining the war. See, the war is so dehumanizing that its giant dehumanizing aura floated down from Baghdad, over the border with Kuwait and instantly dehumanized SB while he was jerking it in a port-a-potty in Kuwait.
Posted by: holdfast at August 02, 2007 08:17 PM (Gzb30)
Beauchamp: "One private, infamous as a joker and troublemaker, found the top part of a human skull, which was almost perfectly preserved. It even had chunks of hair, which were stiff and matted down with dirt. He squealed as he placed it on his head like a crown..."
Beauchamp: "The private wore the skull for the rest of the day and night. Even on a mission, he put his helmet over the skull. He observed that he was grateful his hair had just been cut--since it would make it easier to pick out the pieces of rotting flesh that were digging into his head."
TNR: "A forensic anthropologist confirmed to us that it is possible for tufts of hair to be attached to a long-buried fragment of a human skull, as described in the piece."So, presumably an aged piece of cranium from the Saddam era, meaning quite some years ago now, was intact enough to have pieces of still-rotting flesh of an integrity adequate to concern the soldier wearing it because it would dig into the grunts head? Bullcrap. The forensic anthropologist observation that tufts of hair could still have been attached is legit. Those proteins have considerable staying power and it would not be entirely unexpected that hair persisted; but note how the anthropologist says nothing about rotting flesh. There would be none after years in the earth/sand... unless that mass grave had mummified remains which, since it was supposedly a mass grave, would not have happened. Such bodies would not have been carefully prepped, so the idea that rotting flesh remained, and it remained on the side opposite the matting of hair where all of that soft, easily decomposed cerebrum resides is very likely more artistic license if not wholly contrived.
Of course you don't need me to tell you that. Ace has been on the case for several years in multiple jurisdictions by now. Johnny Coldcuts even fact-checked him about nine months ago from Kuwait. Or maybe it was Green Bay.
Posted by: AnonymousDrivel at August 02, 2007 08:17 PM (Y0gTb)
And while we here at TNR fully stand behind our diarist who claims to have witnessed the assasination of JFK, several sources now confirm, that particular assasination happened in Dallas, and not in Ankorage as our reporter claimed.
This should in now way count toward whether we should fully believe the rest of his story.
Posted by: Poppy at August 02, 2007 08:18 PM (dJFjD)
I don't want it sweet and gentle, my stinky starfish. I want it rough and full of watermelon. Mmm. Anybody up for fruit salad later?
Posted by: JimBimbo at August 02, 2007 08:19 PM (SPXk5)
Posted by: Karl at August 02, 2007 08:19 PM (nVGmG)
Posted by: lyle at August 02, 2007 08:33 PM (jF3aW)
Posted by: topsecretk9 at August 02, 2007 08:41 PM (wdfQS)
So the bottom line seems to be:
1. TNR did almost no fact-checking before publishing Beauchamp's diary.
2. When called on it, they claimed 'near certainty' while scrambling to corraborate the stories. They seemed to have come up with only one soldier who can back up parts of the individual incidents.
3. Furthermore they've moved the goalposts on the incidents: a dog was killed by a bradley, a women was mocked by Beauchamp in Kuwait, a piece of a skull was found and someone put it on their head.
By backing away from the lurid details in the stories they published, they've also significantly altered the thesis in the articles: this is a non-fiction account of how the war in Iraq dehumanizes soldiers. When almost every major detail in a story that was presented as a first-hand account is either wrong or cannot be corroborated, we call that fiction.
Oh and they seem to be following the National Enquirer standard of corroberation - if you can get two people to say something, it's okay to publish it. One reason that the Enquirer has almost never been successfully sued is because they are always careful to have two sources to back up every story. Of course these people may be delusional, but it gets the paper out of showing 'actual malice'. That's good enough for that National Enquirer and apparently for TNR as well.
Posted by: Maetenloch at August 02, 2007 08:42 PM (w0C27)
Posted by: topsecretk9 at August 02, 2007 08:42 PM (wdfQS)
Which is what Ace said Gracie said was really happening - they were scarred shitless and not letting on - makes me all warm and fuzzy knowing the types of people who make a living preening and critiquing government and transparency default into the same slimy techniques and secret and hidden protections they're always crowing about.
Posted by: topsecretk9 at August 02, 2007 08:48 PM (wdfQS)
The Army confirms that a cemetary was unearthed in the AO of Beauchamp's unit. OK, was this the mass grave to which Beauchamp alluded, and was it Beauchamp and his pals who, according to Beauchamp, found the ghoulish antics of one soldier so humorous, that unearthed it, or even came upon it by accident during the time frame when it would have been possible do to what Beauchamp claimed? The mere fact that a cemetary was unearthed in Beauchamp's AO (if we can even assume that), does not prove Beauchamp's fable. Nor does the fact that someone in forensics said that hair can be attached to skull fragments, unless TNR can prove that all of these issues are directly related in date/time/place/people and specifically confirmed actions, confirmed by other than anonymous sources who, according to TNR, somehow, more or less, support Beauchamp's version of things. For the moment, Beauchamp's credibility is at best, problematic. TNR's is worse.
Also according to TNR, supposedly credible sources have stated that the Bradley Fighting Vehicle has heretofore unheard of balletic pivoting abilities. OK, but that still doesn't make it possible for a Bradley driver to see a dog to the right of the vehicle at any distance rendering a purposeful attempt to run over a dog possible. And again, the problems of date/time/place and persons are still with us. Which Bradley driver did what Beauchamp claims, when and where, who else was present, and how did Beauchamp know about it in the first place?
And regarding Beauchamp's cruelty toward a disfigured woman, the place and date keep changing, don't they? We still have no idea of the time, and apart from Beauchamp (here I'm assuming he's telling the truth about being a cruel lout), no idea who else was present, including the supposed victim of Beauchamp's stupidity. That he was off in a central fact of this little narrative by an entire country and many months does not assist in propping up his credibility or that of TNR.
But that's rather the point, isn't it? If Beauchamp or TNR could provide the kind of factors present in all true occurances, the date, the time, the place, the persons present, it would be all too easy to confirm Beauchamp's tales, or expose them as lies. Interesting, isn't it, that all true events occur in a specific place, on a specfic date, at a specific time (or at least a time frame that renders them possible), and involve specific people, all of whom have names and can be located.
Absent these kind of specifics, all TNR has done with it's latest lame attempt at cover is to more fully expose their carelessness and malice in printing unsupportable falsehoods. Did they know so little about the military that they didn't understand that they were essentially shooting the husband of one of their staffers by allowing him to admit to serial and serious violations of the UCMJ in print? Ah, but I'm sure it was just too good to check and too good not to print.
Posted by: Mike at August 02, 2007 09:02 PM (yGPvp)
Posted by: Tim at August 02, 2007 09:46 PM (nUrmw)
No one doubts that one soldier might rape another one.
Private PFC DimBimbo reporting for duty, sir. I will be catching and not pitching, won't I? And can the rest of the platoon that's cheering us on, do me next?
Posted by: DimBimbo at August 02, 2007 10:17 PM (bNRAl)
Bush's War IS Hell...I remember people laughing at a cripple girl when she tripped at chow hall...
Oh wait, that was 6th grade lunch period...No big deal. It is all the same regardless of time and place, right?
Posted by: Anon at August 02, 2007 10:17 PM (/vtfL)
Posted by: DimBimbo at August 02, 2007 10:21 PM (bNRAl)
Whenever you 'defend' an article, and the defense is several times longer than the source material, you need to do one of two things: type 'we retract this article until our writer's facts can be verified more fully'; or sack the schmuck who edited it in the first place and approved going to print with it.
Posted by: kevin at August 02, 2007 10:36 PM (oCQIf)
They tell you to dig at least six feet under and throw in some quicklime...and daisies. Oh, and don't suck the priapatic cock after rigor mortis, because...ew.
Oh, and..
Who PUT THE BOP IN THE BOP SHA BOP SHA BOP
and
Who PUT THE DANG IN THE DANG DA DANG DA DANG?
Posted by: cheshirecat at August 02, 2007 11:15 PM (7kXqg)
Did she have that "(take) 100 lines" stare?
Posted by: cheshirecat at August 02, 2007 11:16 PM (7kXqg)
Posted by: cheshirecat at August 02, 2007 11:17 PM (7kXqg)
Not so sure, JackStraw. It does seem to say something about their fact checking before the article was published and that, along with the transparent spinning, justifies heightened scrutiny of their present claims.
Posted by: VRWC Agent at August 02, 2007 11:53 PM (Z3AmO)
Posted by: MattB at August 02, 2007 11:55 PM (ewsmv)
Posted by: Gary Denton at August 03, 2007 02:03 AM (h/qI+)
Posted by: Stashiu3 at August 03, 2007 03:51 AM (3oP4o)
Posted by: Big Jimbo at August 03, 2007 04:22 AM (7A7MZ)
You misquoted from Shattered Glass. The Forbes online writer didn't say, "There does seem to be a state called Nevada" ... Instead, he said "There does seem to be a state named Nevada."
To the TNR and its irrational defenders, your inadvertant error is likely viewed as equivalent to STB's "mistaking" a staging area in Kuwait with a combat zone in Iraq.
Posted by: debinNC at August 03, 2007 07:26 AM (owrQ1)
Oh and STB is apparently just normally a jackass. No need for war to make him that way.
Posted by: OmegaPaladin at August 03, 2007 08:13 AM (c24eK)
Ace,
I would like to comment on two parts of Beauchamp's story that don't pass the smell test. I haven't heard either of these mentioned elsewhere.
1. The child's skull is described as a perfect fit. "He squealed as he placed it on his head like a crown. It was a perfect fit." I don't think the geometry of the situation fits. A child's skull is smaller than a grown man's skull. The inside curve of a child's skull is smaller still than the outside curve of a man's head (including skin and hair.) It doesn't make sense that a part of a child's skull could fit on a man's head like a crown. It would be way too small.
Another way to look at this is if you, a grown man found a skull that was so large it fit over your head, wouldn't you describe it as a giant's skull rather than as a child's skull?
2. The second item is story about killing dogs with the Bradley Fighting Vehicle. I don't know how wide the track of the Bradley is, but it is extremely incredible to leave an intact piece of the dog on each side of the track. "... front half was completely severed from its rear, which was twitching wildly, and its head was still raised and smiling at the sun as if nothing had happened at all.” This sounds like he ran a knife through the dog rather than the width of a track of a Bradley Fighting Vehicle. I also don't think that death by Bradley Vehicle Track is instantaneous enough to leave the dog with "...head still raised and smiling at the sun as if nothing had happened at all.”
Posted by: Geometry 101 at August 03, 2007 08:45 AM (/4imY)
Posted by: polynikes at August 03, 2007 09:26 AM (m2CN7)
Not so fast, HF. In TNR's walkback they now say he was very much in the rear during the "confirmed woman" incident. As for routinely bulldozing cars, merchant stands and corners of buildings with Bradleys just for fun, we really don't have a formal position from them yet. I'd say you get at least partial marks.
As for "some on the dextrosphere," I first heard about this through Ace's repudiation of this as even a proper issue. It looked to me that TNR (and NYT) were rebutting strawmen by making it an issue and the criticism was over prepublication fact checking - that TNR was initially not even willing to commit 100% to this fundamental element of the story they had already run.
For those who have addressed it, the consensus view I have read has been that the twerp may or may not be a soldier but there is no effin' way what he described would be tolerated. Nothing in the "confirmation" of the story rebuts this position and the way TNR has been shrinking the story tends to confirm it.
Posted by: VRWC Agent at August 03, 2007 10:24 AM (Z3AmO)
A real soldier who actually had the stones to sign up and go and fight points out that "war is hell" and that young men in the most stressful circumstances imaginable sometimes do bad things and all the armchair warriors and chickenhawks who think war is actually like a John Wayne propaganda movie go apesh*t.
The smell of desperation from the right wing fever swamp is getting stronger all the time.
You morons think that extended repeat assignments to Iraq aren't bad for the army, or for the young men and women who had the courage to serve while you sit in your basements jerking off? Clapping louder isn't going to fix things. It's time to face up to reality, get out of the lobster trap that is Iraq, fix the damage to the amed forces and to America's reputation and get back to fighting the real enemy, Al Qaeda. Remember them?
You people make me sick Just shut up.
Posted by: A Hermit at August 03, 2007 10:57 AM (TNSsl)
http://afvdb.50megs.com/usa/m3bradley.html
I'm guessing this wasn't a chihuahua he's describing...
Posted by: A Hermit at August 03, 2007 11:19 AM (TNSsl)
Hey Ass. Holermit,
Are you actually advocating that we fight Al Qaeda? Then why aren't you in Afghanistan, Chickenhawk?
Posted by: Kensington at August 03, 2007 11:44 AM (kFwRi)
A Hermit,
Thanks for Bradley track info. My dog (1/2 austrailian shepherd and 1/2 lab) is about 24 inches long when she is laying down with her head up. So I still don't see how you can get two distinct pieces, including one with the head up.
We're not saying "that extended repeat assignments to Iraq aren't bad for the army." We are saying that no assignment to Iraq made Beauchamp act badly in Kuwait before he ever went to Iraq. And we wonder why he can't make his point that the war in Iraq is bad without lying about it.
Posted by: Geometry 101 at August 03, 2007 05:33 PM (qYEUC)
"But that was in another country
And besides, the wench is dead."
Christopher Marlowe. The Jew of Malta
Bill W.
Posted by: William Woodall at August 03, 2007 06:34 PM (Kayiu)
You people are unbelievable; you're all "support the troops" until one of them points out some uncomfortable truths and then you're parsing every word and engaging in this sickening display of character assassination.
People in war zones often do bad things; the army has convicted some of its own for murder and rape; what makes you think running over a dog is so unlikely? And are you surprised the other soldiers who confirm his story want to remain anonymous? Why would they want to expose themselves and their families to your sick little right wing internet stalker brigade?
----
215; You're making mountains out of molehills. The guy wrote an article that basically said "war is hell"; something the dead-ender Bush fanatics don't like to hear, so they went after him, thinking they could score some points by exposing a fake. But, just like that Baghdad police captain, he turns out to be real, and now all the clever little bloggers are trying desperately to save face by finding something; anything, they can cling to in this story to the point of speculating about whether or not he exaggerated the size of the piece of dog that was left after it was run over; so what? It's pathetic. What's next? We discuss what the meaning of "is" is?
Posted by: A Hermit at August 03, 2007 11:25 PM (N/Eb9)
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Dale's ECB
Election Projection
Federal Review
Real Clear Politics
Rasmussen Reports
Gallup
Zogby
FoxNews Polls
Sabato/Crystal Ball
Paul Anka Haiku Contest Announcement
Integrity SAT's: Entrance Exam for Paul Anka's Band
AllahPundit's Paul Anka 45's Collection
AnkaPundit: Paul Anka Takes Over the Site for a Weekend (Continues through to Monday's postings)
George Bush Slices Don Rumsfeld Like an F*ckin' Hammer
Democratic Forays into Erotica
New Shows On Gore's DNC/MTV Network
Nicknames for Potatoes, By People Who Really Hate Potatoes
Star Wars Euphemisms for Self-Abuse
Signs You're at an Iraqi "Wedding Party"
Signs Your Clown Has Gone Bad
Signs That You, Geroge Michael, Should Probably Just Give It Up
Signs of Hip-Hop Influence on John Kerry
NYT Headlines Spinning Bush's Jobs Boom
Things People Are More Likely to Say Than "Did You Hear What Al Franken Said Yesterday?"
Signs that Paul Krugman Has Lost His Frickin' Mind
All-Time Best NBA Players, According to Senator Robert Byrd
Other Bad Things About the Jews, According to the Koran
Signs That David Letterman Just Doesn't Care Anymore
Examples of Bob Kerrey's Insufferable Racial Jackassery
Signs Andy Rooney Is Going Senile
Other Judgments Dick Clarke Made About Condi Rice Based on Her Appearance
Collective Names for Groups of People
John Kerry's Other Vietnam Super-Pets
Cool Things About the XM8 Assault Rifle
Media-Approved Facts About the Democrat Spy
Changes to Make Christianity More "Inclusive"
Secret John Kerry Senatorial Accomplishments
John Edwards Campaign Excuses
John Kerry Pick-Up Lines
Changes Liberal Senator George Michell Will Make at Disney
Torments in Dog-Hell
The Ace of Spades HQ Sex-for-Money Skankathon
A D&D Guide to the Democratic Candidates
Margaret Cho: Just Not Funny
More Margaret Cho Abuse
Margaret Cho: Still Not Funny
Iraqi Prisoner Claims He Was Raped... By Woman
Wonkette Announces "Morning Zoo" Format
John Kerry's "Plan" Causes Surrender of Moqtada al-Sadr's Militia
World Muslim Leaders Apologize for Nick Berg's Beheading
Michael Moore Goes on Lunchtime Manhattan Death-Spree
Milestone: Oliver Willis Posts 400th "Fake News Article" Referencing Britney Spears
Liberal Economists Rue a "New Decade of Greed"
Artificial Insouciance: Maureen Dowd's Word Processor Revolts Against Her Numbing Imbecility
Intelligence Officials Eye Blogs for Tips
They Done Found Us Out, Cletus: Intrepid Internet Detective Figures Out Our Master Plan
Shock: Josh Marshall Almost Mentions Sarin Discovery in Iraq
Leather-Clad Biker Freaks Terrorize Australian Town
When Clinton Was President, Torture Was Cool
What Wonkette Means When She Explains What Tina Brown Means
Wonkette's Stand-Up Act
Wankette HQ Gay-Rumors Du Jour
Here's What's Bugging Me: Goose and Slider
My Own Micah Wright Style Confession of Dishonesty
Outraged "Conservatives" React to the FMA
An On-Line Impression of Dennis Miller Having Sex with a Kodiak Bear
The Story the Rightwing Media Refuses to Report!
Our Lunch with David "Glengarry Glen Ross" Mamet
The House of Love: Paul Krugman
A Michael Moore Mystery (TM)
The Dowd-O-Matic!
Liberal Consistency and Other Myths
Kepler's Laws of Liberal Media Bias
John Kerry-- The Splunge! Candidate
"Divisive" Politics & "Attacks on Patriotism" (very long)
The Donkey ("The Raven" parody)