Flashback: "Philosophers" Making Case for After-Birth "Abortion"

Update: It's Old. Apparently this is a 2012 piece. But Brit Hume just Tweeted about it, hence me (and others) treating it as if it's new.

They urge the adoption of this terminology -- "after-birth abortion" -- over the morally judgmental and politically difficult term "infanticide."

This appears to be quite real:

[I]n order for a harm to occur, it is necessary that someone is in the condition of experiencing that harm. If a potential person, like a fetus and a newborn, does not become an actual person, like you and us, then there is neither an actual nor a future person who can be harmed, which means that there is no harm at all. … In these cases, since non-persons have no moral rights to life, there are no reasons for banning after-birth abortions. … Indeed, however weak the interests of actual people can be, they will always trump the alleged interest of potential people to become actual ones, because this latter interest amounts to zero.

Via Twitchy, which cites Brit Hume's stunned reaction.

One caveat:

This seems so outrageous that I suspect the possibility (only the possibility) of a Jonathan Swift-like"Modest Proposal" intent here -- that is, these philosophers, by taking the logic of pre-birth abortion and claiming it apples to post-birth abortion as well, may actually intend to cast the pro-choice argument as itself fatally flawed.

On the other hand, it could more easily be seriously intended. After all, there are those who seriously propose that the Human Species render itself extinct, voluntarily, to "save the earth."

So there are plenty of people willing to go there at the drop of a hat.

Apparently Real: Saletan apparently debated other abortion absolutists who make similar claims.

They may not have intended a Jonathan Swift-type case... but they've still done so inadvertently, as he notes:

Predictably, the article has sparked outrage. Last week, Reps. Joe Pitts, R-Pa., and Chris Smith, R-N.J., denounced it on the House floor. But it isn’t pro-lifers who should worry about the Giubilini-Minerva proposal. It’s pro-choicers. The case for “after-birth abortion” draws a logical path from common pro-choice assumptions to infanticide. It challenges us, implicitly and explicitly, to explain why, if abortion is permissible, infanticide isn’t....


As [a pro-choice absolutist Furedi] explained in our debate last fall, “There is nothing magical about passing through the birth canal that transforms it from a fetus into a person.”

The challenge posed to Furedi and other pro-choice absolutists by “after-birth abortion” is this: How do they answer the argument, advanced by Giubilini and Minerva, that any maternal interest, such as the burden of raising a gravely defective newborn, trumps the value of that freshly delivered nonperson? What value does the newborn have? At what point did it acquire that value? And why should the law step in to protect that value against the judgment of a woman and her doctor?


Posted by: Ace at 06:08 PM



Comments

1 To those in favor:

You first.

Posted by: Kevin in ABQ at February 24, 2014 06:10 PM (BvTwT)

2 One of these days I am really going to march on DC with the Sisters of Life.

One of these days there will be a generation who fight this and win.

Posted by: ChristyBlinky, Duchess of Something at February 24, 2014 06:10 PM (baL2B)

3 That's what they were doing in Carthage when Justice came to town.

Posted by: Boss Moss at February 24, 2014 06:11 PM (6bMeY)

4 Didn't this hit the blogs a few years back? Like, 2010?

Posted by: ChrisValentine at February 24, 2014 06:11 PM (42vqa)

5 This sounds like a Peter Singer/Zeke Emengele joint production.

Posted by: Captain Hate at February 24, 2014 06:12 PM (+ywjg)

6 It's cats and dogs living together out there, people.

Posted by: Dr Spank at February 24, 2014 06:12 PM (P1WNR)

7 After birth abortion? Oh wait your talking about obamacare right?

Posted by: Nevergiveup at February 24, 2014 06:14 PM (nzKvP)

8 Looks like I'm getting out of here just in time.

Posted by: Harold Ramis at February 24, 2014 06:14 PM (oFCZn)

9 #Ocare cost savings proposal

Posted by: Bill D. Cat at February 24, 2014 06:14 PM (XWw96)

10 [W]hen circumstances occur after birth such that they would have justified abortion, what we call after-birth abortion should be permissible. … [W]e propose to call this practice ‘after-birth abortion’, rather than ‘infanticide,’ to emphasize that the moral status of the individual killed is comparable with that of a fetus … rather than to that of a child. Therefore, we claim that killing a newborn could be ethically permissible in all the circumstances where abortion would be. Such circumstances include cases where the newborn has the potential to have an (at least) acceptable life, but the well-being of the family is at risk

from the brit hume link

Posted by: willow at February 24, 2014 06:14 PM (nqBYe)

11 Now wait a minute, now you're taking this way too far.

Posted by: Rustin Cohle at February 24, 2014 06:14 PM (/FnUH)

12 The Left increasingly is an anti-human cult.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at February 24, 2014 06:15 PM (ZPrif)

13 Obamacare is already performing after birth abortions on dialysis patients.

Posted by: Boss Moss at February 24, 2014 06:15 PM (6bMeY)

14 The eco-Left won't "eat anything with a face", but is fine with infanticide.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at February 24, 2014 06:16 PM (ZPrif)

15 I have no problem at all believing this is real.

This sounds like a Peter Singer/Zeke Emengele joint production.
Posted by: Captain Hate at February 24, 2014 06:12 PM (+ywjg)


Yup.

Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Mmmm. Blondies with whipped cream. at February 24, 2014 06:16 PM (VtjlW)

16 Wait "after birth abortions" , is that what you call obama's foreign policy?

Posted by: Nevergiveup at February 24, 2014 06:16 PM (nzKvP)

17 Such circumstances include cases where the newborn has the potential to have an (at least) acceptable life, but the well-being of the family is at risk

anyway of course we are creepy ass social Coons for being repulsed , disgusted, upset, angry. tearful at this move .

it is as we said it would be ,
no Limits!
they push further and further into insanity .

Posted by: willow at February 24, 2014 06:16 PM (nqBYe)

18 Hey ace,

Bioethicist here.

We've been beating these tuckers back for a while now. They're Singer disciples and their work gets published by Singer's Academic child: Julian Salvulescu.

By the the by, that "Cure for love" crap in the sidebar, more Singer/Salvulescu disciples.

Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) (tablet) at February 24, 2014 06:16 PM (a8eFL)

19 A good percentage of abortions now are because the gender is wrong. Is that fair game, too?

Posted by: CUS at February 24, 2014 06:16 PM (wcLJG)

20 Evil scum.

Posted by: steevy at February 24, 2014 06:16 PM (zqvg6)

21 Hey, we can have massive abortion facilities fed by boxcars for these non-people.

Posted by: --- at February 24, 2014 06:17 PM (MMC8r)

22 Redrum.

Posted by: Boss Moss at February 24, 2014 06:17 PM (6bMeY)

23 I once had a long conversation with an old college chum of mine. He was a self professed bleeding heart liberal. We were discussing why I had changed my opinion on abortion and I was discussing late term abortion. He then went on to wax poetically about how he had friends who felt that parents should have the right to destroy their children up to the age of two - before "the children had the ability to retain memories." I guess they didn't want the kids to remember being murdered or something. I then told him my first memory is from the age of 18 mos. He didn't have much to say except maybe the age should be revised down a bit. He was drop dead serious.

Posted by: janetoo at February 24, 2014 06:17 PM (DVU82)

24 Sweet. Because I have a list of Dems I wouldn't mind seeing "ended".

Posted by: rickb223 at February 24, 2014 06:17 PM (h1D+w)

25 I'm officially speechless.

Posted by: Hobbitopoly at February 24, 2014 06:17 PM (080XV)

26 A good percentage of abortions now are because the gender is wrong. Is that fair game, too?
Posted by: CUS at February 24, 2014 06:16 PM (wcLJG)

Is that a rhetorical question?

Posted by: Red China at February 24, 2014 06:17 PM (nzKvP)

27 You're dead to me. buddy.

Posted by: Martin Hart at February 24, 2014 06:17 PM (P1WNR)

28 o emphasize that the moral status of the individual killed is comparable with that of a fetus … rather than to that of a child.
what fkrs. srsly.
we'll
call it a fetus a few minutes after birth if we don't 'like' the baby.

Posted by: willow at February 24, 2014 06:17 PM (nqBYe)

29 18 TSRbike,

Hey Bike...keep on plugging.

I have a modest proposal, tell 'em I get to pick who gets aborted.

Posted by: sven10077 at February 24, 2014 06:18 PM (TE35l)

30 This is so not new. Who was that "ethics" (yes, scare quotes) guy at Princeton? Singer?

Its all about eugenics with these people.

Fucking fascists.

Posted by: blaster at February 24, 2014 06:18 PM (4+AaH)

31 Anything that results from PIV is evil and must be exterminated, for the good of the sisterhood.

Posted by: wooga at February 24, 2014 06:18 PM (cUavq)

32 SO

Posted by: Nevergiveup at February 24, 2014 06:18 PM (nzKvP)

33 " freshly delivered non person"

Posted by: steevy at February 24, 2014 06:18 PM (zqvg6)

34 Let that sink in " freshly delivered non person".

Posted by: steevy at February 24, 2014 06:19 PM (zqvg6)

35 Well if you kill all the adults, you would not have to worry about babies

Posted by: Nevergiveup at February 24, 2014 06:19 PM (nzKvP)

36 Oh, the big bad PhD beat me to it.

Way to go, smarty pants.

Posted by: blaster at February 24, 2014 06:19 PM (4+AaH)

37 It's just a lump of cells really.

Posted by: Boss Moss at February 24, 2014 06:19 PM (6bMeY)

38 hell why stop right after birth, what about that disappointing child that can't play Beethoven .

Posted by: willow at February 24, 2014 06:19 PM (nqBYe)

39
Soothsayerism #3: When you're at the point where you're entertaining debate on such matters, you already lost; humanity already lost.

Posted by: soothsayer at February 24, 2014 06:19 PM (fMj88)

40 "After-Birth Abortions" are the best way make communism 'work'

Posted by: Joseph Stalin at February 24, 2014 06:19 PM (Q6pxP)

41 "freshly delivered non person"
---
Left to die in a broom closet.

Posted by: CUS at February 24, 2014 06:19 PM (wcLJG)

42 This is not the first time I've heard of this, and it won't be the last. Keep in mind, these are the same geniuses who spawned the Eugenics movement, that lead to the Holocaust.

Oh, and Hitler was a vegetarian.

Posted by: jnials at February 24, 2014 06:19 PM (A3EAh)

43 Posted by: sven10077 at February 24, 2014 06:18 PM (TE35l)

A lot of discussion over whether this should have even been published.

Some of my friends were opposed. Me I see it as an unforced error, given that they specifically note they don't like the term "infanticide" since it's loaded (and totally correct here.)

Postmodern bullshit. But it's bullshit I have to put up with.

Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) (tablet) at February 24, 2014 06:20 PM (a8eFL)

44 These people put me in a killing rage.

Posted by: steevy at February 24, 2014 06:20 PM (zqvg6)

45
So those sitting on death row are really just misunderstood philosophers?

The left always pushes its agendaas far as they can. I am all for these pro-death activists to start with themselves.

Posted by: Cheri at February 24, 2014 06:20 PM (G+Wff)

46 Come on. Just a small step. How could it hurt?

Posted by: The Slippery Slope at February 24, 2014 06:20 PM (8ZskC)

47 30 Blaster,

It's sorta new...new here anyway.

I'm just about out of kinship with these folk.

Posted by: sven10077 at February 24, 2014 06:20 PM (TE35l)

48
Never ever 'debate' this fringe noise. The only recourse is to BONK BONK ON THEIR HEADS.

Posted by: soothsayer at February 24, 2014 06:20 PM (fMj88)

49 If a potential person, like a fetus and a newborn, does not become an actual person, like you and us,...

Stop. Right. There.

You are not a person, Mr. Philosopher. You have just advocated murder for the most defenseless people on Earth.

You are not normal. You and your ilk are nothing more than animals, unthinking, unfeeling and uncaring. That you are able to walk upright and converse in a language we both understand is a mystery.

Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this shit at February 24, 2014 06:20 PM (0HooB)

50 Just when you thought the religious right couldn’t get any crazier, with its personhood amendments and its attacks on contraception, here comes the academic left with an even crazier idea: after-birth abortion @slate

why yes because we say partial birth abortions ARE PARTIAL BIRTH abortions of Babies with Personhood!that crazy town.

Posted by: willow at February 24, 2014 06:21 PM (nqBYe)

51 @43 are they opposed to it being published because it is so intrinsically wrong, or opposed because now the cat is out of the bag?

Posted by: blaster at February 24, 2014 06:21 PM (4+AaH)

52 I'm sure Slate published this article 'for the children.'

Posted by: --- at February 24, 2014 06:21 PM (MMC8r)

53 Posted by: sven10077 at February 24, 2014 06:20 PM (TE35l)

Me and CBD discussed it a ton a while back.

Frankly it scares me because some people actually buy it. "We're all emotivists now."

Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) (tablet) at February 24, 2014 06:21 PM (a8eFL)

54 It's not rape, it's just "pre-consent intercourse."

Posted by: wooga at February 24, 2014 06:21 PM (cUavq)

55 Complaining about this is why Repubs will never win elections.

Posted by: Larry, Curly and Moe Moe at February 24, 2014 06:22 PM (kVfSG)

56 So being a baby killer is good now?

Posted by: Libtard at February 24, 2014 06:22 PM (Aif/5)

57 54 Surprise sex.

Posted by: Boss Moss at February 24, 2014 06:22 PM (6bMeY)

58 Why not? If you can do it three days before, why not three days after?

If it's not a person in the womb, it's not any more of a person out of the womb.

What if the mother sees the baby has a cleft palate? What if she can't handle that kind of trauma?

Posted by: grammie winger at February 24, 2014 06:22 PM (oMKp3)

59 Call it what you will

Posted by: Dr. Gosnell at February 24, 2014 06:22 PM (Q6pxP)

60 So every season of True Detectives features a new cast? And there are only 2 episodes left for this season?

Posted by: Dr Spank at February 24, 2014 06:22 PM (P1WNR)

61 This really isn't anything new. "Ethicist" Peter Singer has been saying for years that infanticide should be allowed for any kid up to one year old..and then on a case-by-case basis after that.

My question is..how the fuck does someone get credentialed as an ethicist?

Do you just have to have a business card saying that you are?

Posted by: Albie Damned at February 24, 2014 06:22 PM (cGaCp)

62 >>>A lot of discussion over whether this should have even been published.

Some of my friends were opposed. Me I see it as an unforced error, given that they specifically note they don't like the term "infanticide" since it's loaded (and totally correct here.)

...

I think it should have been published. it's a real argument.

Censorship here would be protective, that is, the censorship would be imposed by members of the left for protection of the whole of the left.

You see this a lot, like with the media not reporting stuff like this, or about communists and anarchists, and so on. They want to present the left as "reasonable," so they wind up censoring the less-reasonable voices of their own political movement.

Posted by: Rustin Cohle at February 24, 2014 06:22 PM (/FnUH)

63 If I'm looking at Slate correctly (and God only knows if that's happening), it looks like the article is from 2012.
Which would mean this has been out there for at least a few years.

Posted by: BlackCross5 at February 24, 2014 06:22 PM (f54s2)

64 Everybody loves surprises.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at February 24, 2014 06:22 PM (ZPrif)

65 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Life_unworthy_of_life

Posted by: --- at February 24, 2014 06:23 PM (MMC8r)

66 @57 so in California they are debating whether you need to have full written consent to each sexual act, which would make rape undocumented sex.

Posted by: blaster at February 24, 2014 06:23 PM (4+AaH)

67 I am not stealing your car.

I am merely anticipating your lending of it to me.

Posted by: weft cut-loop at February 24, 2014 06:24 PM (xrX4n)

68 Why put a limit of a few days after birth on it when we will know how the "potential person" will vote when he/she turns 18?

Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at February 24, 2014 06:24 PM (8ZskC)

69 so in California they are debating whether you need to have full written consent to each sexual act, which would make rape undocumented sex.

We need to let rapists come out of the shadows.

Posted by: --- at February 24, 2014 06:24 PM (MMC8r)

70 66
@57 so in California they are debating whether you need to have full
written consent to each sexual act, which would make rape undocumented
sex.

Posted by: blaster at February 24, 2014 06:23 PM (4+AaH)



Got to have something for law school grads to do.

Posted by: phreshone at February 24, 2014 06:24 PM (Q6pxP)

71 Posted by: grammie winger at February 24, 2014 06:22 PM (oMKp3)

Singer says murder is ok up until like age 2. He's a whackjob though.

Posted by: Rustin Cohle at February 24, 2014 06:22 PM (/FnUH)

Freedom of speech does no guarantee a platform for said speech. Putting it JME gave it legitimacy, is the concern. And I admit it's an argument I do occasionally give deference to.

Should I shut them up? No. But do I need to reward them with publication!

Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) (tablet) at February 24, 2014 06:25 PM (a8eFL)

72 Finally! Someone agrees with me!

Posted by: Peter Singer at February 24, 2014 06:25 PM (F58x4)

73 “Human babies are not born self-aware, or capable of grasping that they
exist over time. They are not persons”; therefore, “the life of a
newborn is of less value than the life of a pig, a dog, or a chimpanzee

-Peter Singer

Posted by: Albie Damned at February 24, 2014 06:25 PM (cGaCp)

74
I think it should have been published. it's a real argument.

Only if you dignify it as such with your engagement.

Posted by: soothsayer at February 24, 2014 06:25 PM (fMj88)

75 Actual people's well-being could be threatened by the new (even if healthy) child requiring energy, money and care which the family might happen to be in short supply of,” they observe. Accordingly, “if economical, social or psychological circumstances change such that taking care of the offspring becomes an unbearable burden on someone, then people should be given the chance of not being forced to do something they cannot afford.” An after-birth abortion might be warranted by any “interests of actual people (parents, family, society) to pursue their own well-being”—including “the interests of the mother who might suffer psychological distress from giving her child up for adoption.”

Posted by: willow at February 24, 2014 06:25 PM (nqBYe)

76 yeah you guys are right -- it's 2 years old.

coincidentally enough, it's old enough to still be aborted, per the argument made.

Posted by: ace at February 24, 2014 06:25 PM (/FnUH)

77 First euthanasia and then genocide.

Posted by: Boss Moss at February 24, 2014 06:26 PM (6bMeY)

78 Bike it's the one topic I've never been cryptic about.

I am not kidding, this shit is killing me because they are nazis.....

Literally nazis.

Posted by: sven10077 at February 24, 2014 06:26 PM (TE35l)

79 Human Species render itself extinct, voluntarily, to "save the earth."

I know so many liberals (of the old, included) that believe we need to control the population of the earth. Allow all death due to water shortages, food shortages, shelter, natural disaster aftermath, etc. Especially of the 3rd world countries that simply cannot fend for themselves.

To preserve the earth's resources, and Mother Earth, in general.

Some say it quietly, as if it's a Voldemort statement, whereas most won't say it in public.

After all, that was what Roe v Wade was really about. Population control.

Posted by: artisanal 'ette at February 24, 2014 06:26 PM (IXrOn)

80 Moloch is thirsty.

Posted by: BCochran1981 - Credible Hulk at February 24, 2014 06:26 PM (GEICT)

81 I'm surprised the paper is just now getting attention.... it's been out there for about 2 years - I first ran across it when it was linked on The Blaze and Beck referenced it on several of his radio shows.

Posted by: 2nd Amendment Mother at February 24, 2014 06:26 PM (L4CWX)

82 >>>I think it should have been published. it's a real argument.

Only if you dignify it as such with your engagement.

...

I don't mean it's a *correct* argument. But some arguments are self-discrediting, and should not be censored. People should be permitted to self-discredit, without their political coreligionists interfering with that choice.

Posted by: ace at February 24, 2014 06:26 PM (/FnUH)

83 I'll just call myself an "ethicist" so then I can do whatever the fuck I want

Posted by: Albie Damned at February 24, 2014 06:26 PM (cGaCp)

84 I'm so confused......

Posted by: War Protesters at February 24, 2014 06:27 PM (Aif/5)

85 57 54 Surprise sex.
Posted by: Boss Moss at February 24, 2014 06:22 PM (6bMeY)


Surprise, motherfucker!

Posted by: wooga at February 24, 2014 06:27 PM (cUavq)

86 What's a few more minutes, eh?

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at February 24, 2014 06:27 PM (DmNpO)

87

Life is Cheap

Posted by: rd at February 24, 2014 06:27 PM (D+lxs)

88
What if the mother, after 3 months, decides to go to law school and can't really take proper care of her infant; wouldn't it be better to abort that infant for everyone's sake?

Posted by: Wendy Davis at February 24, 2014 06:27 PM (fMj88)

89 Singer was invited to speak at my kids New Jersey high school a couple of years ago. The students were absolutely scandalized by his speech, the parents went a little batshit angry and the school administration was totally unmoved. They didn't care.

Posted by: MTF at February 24, 2014 06:27 PM (F58x4)

90
After all, that was what Roe v Wade was really about. Population control.


But WE'RE 'social Darwinists.'

Posted by: --- at February 24, 2014 06:27 PM (MMC8r)

91 Singer says murder is ok up until like age 2. He's a whackjob though.

He is a whack job with a named chair and tenure at Princeton.

Posted by: blaster at February 24, 2014 06:27 PM (4+AaH)

92 Posted by: ace at February 24, 2014 06:25 PM (/FnUH)

Good gosh man, do I need to start putting you in my email chains

(I kid, I won't subject you to that.)
FWIW, this one went on 4 days and probably 10k words.

Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) (tablet) at February 24, 2014 06:27 PM (a8eFL)

93 I was sure this not-really-a-person-yet would be good at baseball. It's not working out at all. I mean come on! .062 batting average?
He won't remember much, so....

Posted by: Roland THTG at February 24, 2014 06:28 PM (qyoyx)

94 It's what I've been saying all along!

Posted by: Margaret Sanger at February 24, 2014 06:28 PM (l3vZN)

95 Yeah,I recall it being mentioned years ago.Doesn't matter,such evil needs to be exposed .The idea persists,these people are still out there.

Posted by: steevy at February 24, 2014 06:28 PM (zqvg6)

96

The political movement and philosophy that has as its fellow travelers Margaret Sanger, Josef Mengele and Kermit Gosnell.

And we try and figure out how to deal legally and constitutionally with people itching to shove Zyklon-B down our throats. If you include the attitude by that brain-dead Korn schmuck from the Harvard Crimson as well as Billy Ayers and Calypso Louie, then this is not hyperbole. But it is a warning.

Utterly sickening.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at February 24, 2014 06:28 PM (olDqf)

97 Being against infanticide is so provincial.

Posted by: Boss Moss at February 24, 2014 06:28 PM (6bMeY)

98 "It's not rape, it's just "pre-consent intercourse."


Zackly!

Posted by: Darren Sharper at February 24, 2014 06:28 PM (gOoFi)

99 Please to refer to our decisions as 'euthanasia' - we prefer 'post 250th trimester abortion decision'

Posted by: IPAB at February 24, 2014 06:29 PM (Q6pxP)

100 Does this post-birth abortion thing apply into the teenage years? Like a 52nd trimester abortion? I'm asking for a friend.

Posted by: Steve in Greensboro at February 24, 2014 06:29 PM (jj+6/)

101
Please argue with me. I just introduced a legitimate reason for post-birth abortion. It's up to you to show me I'm wrong. Oh, and moral arguments are not allowed!

(See how utterly stupid this is?)

Posted by: Wendy Davis at February 24, 2014 06:29 PM (fMj88)

102 Accordingly, “if economical, social or psychological circumstances change such that taking care of the offspring becomes an unbearable burden on someone, then people should be given the chance of not being forced to do something they cannot afford.” An after-birth abortion might be warranted by any “interests of actual people (parents, family, society) to pursue their own well-being”—including “the interests of the mother who might suffer psychological distress from giving her child up for adoption.”

fgs, i know i just posted that section.
but it's absolutely stunning.

why stop at infancy. heck what about teens?

Posted by: willow at February 24, 2014 06:29 PM (nqBYe)

103 yeah you guys are right -- it's 2 years old.

Singer was a big deal in the Clinton era.

So, maybe it matters what our leadership thinks about life?

Posted by: blaster at February 24, 2014 06:29 PM (4+AaH)

104 Mmmm, okay. So, tell me. What is the substantive difference between these folks that think it's okay to whack a baby and the Nazis in Germany c. 1938-44 or so? Can't see any, but I guess that doesn't mean it isn't there.

Posted by: tcn at February 24, 2014 06:29 PM (fwcEs)

105 Singer was invited to speak at my kids New Jersey
high school a couple of years ago. The students were absolutely
scandalized by his speech, the parents went a little batshit angry and
the school administration was totally unmoved. They didn't care.

Posted by: MTF at February 24, 2014 06:27 PM (F58x4)


School administrators are about as open as Stalin to input from parents.

Posted by: Captain Hate at February 24, 2014 06:30 PM (+ywjg)

106 If infanticide is morally ok, then why can't I buy an AR

Posted by: Jean at February 24, 2014 06:30 PM (4JkHl)

107 You see this a lot, like with the media not reporting stuff like this, or about communists and anarchists, and so on. They want to present the left as "reasonable," so they wind up censoring the less-reasonable voices of their own political movement.

That's just crazy talk.

Posted by: Occupy Wall Street at February 24, 2014 06:30 PM (S0eIZ)

108 Jesus Christ.

And no, I'm not writing His name in vain. I'm writing it because that's what I said aloud when I read the post. That's all I can do when confronted with suchmonstrous evil.

You know, at some point we're going to have to fight these people. I mean really fight them. What they believe and what we believe are completely incompatible, irreconcilable, with no middle ground or room for compromise. That, and at some point the definition for non-person will encompass all who are not them. Historically, that seems to be the way that logic train runs.

Posted by: troyriser at February 24, 2014 06:30 PM (gNlvW)

109 Ya know old people are pretty useless also and lonely use up air and water

Posted by: Nevergiveup at February 24, 2014 06:30 PM (nzKvP)

110 The science is settled.

Posted by: Boss Moss at February 24, 2014 06:30 PM (6bMeY)

111 Hmm.

Who would have thought Andrea Yates was so on the cutting edge of medical ethics?

Posted by: --- at February 24, 2014 06:30 PM (MMC8r)

112 i wonder if ayers was just advocating for post birth abortions of 25 million using this idealogy.

Posted by: willow at February 24, 2014 06:31 PM (nqBYe)

113 Singer is not a whack job. Singer is a member of the Ruling Class, with more wealth, power, and influence than 99.9% of the planet.

He's evil, but not crazy.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at February 24, 2014 06:31 PM (ZPrif)

114 "I brought you into this world, I can take you out" no longer an idle threat. The new microagression?

Posted by: LizLem at February 24, 2014 06:31 PM (BF+2f)

115 "Actual people," eh?

As opposed to "non-actual people?" Let me guess who gets to decide who's who.

Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this shit at February 24, 2014 06:31 PM (0HooB)

116 Posted by: blaster at February 24, 2014 06:27 PM (4+AaH)

My life goal was once to get the Singer Chair in Practical ethics and then go all Pro-Life on them just to ruin his legacy.

He discredited himself when he didn't pull the plug on his mom as his own theory demanded. (Not that I think he should have.)

His era is waning. Granted I still know a few hipsters in my own department no less who love him because and I quote "he gives to charity."

Yeah it's easy he's rich. Fuck that noise.

Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) (tablet) at February 24, 2014 06:31 PM (a8eFL)

117 @23

Sometimes it's amazing and horrifying to sit and listen to a liberal explain their premises.

I'm morbidly curious, though... I'd like to hear these people fully explain the qualifications of 'personhood'?

Posted by: weew at February 24, 2014 06:32 PM (0tmLY)

118
Yes, I understand the difference between a "rational" argument and a "valid" argument. But some people's mind-thoughts are better off unsaid and unheard.

Posted by: soothsayer at February 24, 2014 06:32 PM (fMj88)

119 Adam Lanza. Cutting-edge medical ethicist.

Posted by: --- at February 24, 2014 06:32 PM (MMC8r)

120 Good God. How can they says something like that and call themselves civilized in the same breath?

Posted by: LFW - Honorary Pointy Eared Vulcan at February 24, 2014 06:32 PM (l2max)

121 you know sometimes kids can really test us, i think we should all have the Option?
amirite?

Posted by: willow at February 24, 2014 06:32 PM (nqBYe)

122 It is incremental genocide. Only the correct people should be allowed to live.

Posted by: Lester at February 24, 2014 06:32 PM (2UPXV)

123 Singer is not a whack job. Singer is a member of the Ruling Class, with more wealth, power, and influence than 99.9% of the planet.

These aren't mutually exclusive.

Posted by: Waterhouse at February 24, 2014 06:32 PM (ADs8C)

124 why stop at infancy. heck what about teens?

Heck, why stop at all. If you don't have a college education and career and own your own home by the time you are 35, stand up against the wall and take your 9 grams.

Posted by: no good deed at February 24, 2014 06:32 PM (vBhbc)

125 " People should be permitted to self-discredit, without their political coreligionists interfering with that choice. "

I agree, but unfortunately Singer is far from discredited. He is probably the most well known utilitarian ethicist of our time. It's nauseating how much influence the man has both inside outside of academia.

Posted by: Lauren at February 24, 2014 06:33 PM (hFL/3)

126 For The Children.

Posted by: willow at February 24, 2014 06:33 PM (nqBYe)

127 Singer is one of the most celebrated ethicists of the last 40 years. He's famous and influential. He helped start the modern animal rights movement.

He's rich, powerful and important.

Evil as all fuck, too.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at February 24, 2014 06:33 PM (ZPrif)

128 Earf-quake!

Posted by: weft cut-loop at February 24, 2014 06:33 PM (xrX4n)

129 What then is it, but a lump of flesh, a parasite?

If the justified time to kill it in the womb is "above one's pay grade," surely--but for anachronistic societal conventions--the time for killing after birth is unfixed?

Posted by: RoyalOil at February 24, 2014 06:34 PM (VjL9S)

130 I hope I can become as discredited as Singer someday. Ivy League tenure. Money, power, influence.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at February 24, 2014 06:34 PM (ZPrif)

131 115
"Actual people," eh?



As opposed to "non-actual people?" Let me guess who gets to decide who's who.

Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this shit at February 24, 2014 06:31 PM (0HooB)

Yeah, I love it when some idiot asks if my adopted son is my "real son." Looks pretty damned real to me. What are you imagining?

Posted by: tcn at February 24, 2014 06:34 PM (fwcEs)

132 I don't understand why conservatives don't support this guy so that they can keep poor people from using Obamacare.


Too lazy to sock this moonbat lefty. Pretend I did

Posted by: blaster at February 24, 2014 06:34 PM (4+AaH)

133 If you can terminate in the womb for sex selection, why can't you terminate out of the womb if the ultrasound technician got it wrong ?

Serious question.

Posted by: grammie winger at February 24, 2014 06:34 PM (oMKp3)

134 >>He's evil, but not crazy.

Distinction without a difference in this case. Anybody who tries to rationalize killing babies as something other than it is so both evil and crazy.

Posted by: JackStraw at February 24, 2014 06:34 PM (g1DWB)

135 I was once the worst person in the world. Guess I still am, but I never killed any babies.

Dogs > babies.

Posted by: Michael Vick at February 24, 2014 06:34 PM (CnA98)

136 @willow ,
Divorce can be trying as well .

Posted by: Bill D. Cat at February 24, 2014 06:34 PM (XWw96)

137 Peter Singer was the first name to come to mind. Princeton, I believe.

Undesirables. Needless mouths. Feeble-minded. Population surplus. One child per "family". Unproductive. Genetic testing. Birth licensing

Who goes Nazi?

Posted by: mrp at February 24, 2014 06:34 PM (JBggj)

138 "Well if you kill all the adults, you would not have to worry about babies"

Stalin was way ahead of you there, simply declare them non-persons.

Posted by: Decaf at February 24, 2014 06:34 PM (Bwva0)

139 Pro-lifers have always said that abortion is a slippery slope. This is what we meant.
Last year a professor (or was he a doctor?) in the UK made the news because he was advocating for abortions up to two years after birth. The UK is far more liberal than America, but seeing that in a Western country like them is terrifying.
Belgium recently legalized euthanasia for children.
It's a horrifying world we're living in. We need a revival ASAP.
I'm sickened by the news every.single.day.

Posted by: Aslan's Girl at February 24, 2014 06:34 PM (KL49F)

140 It is incremental genocide. Only the correct people should be allowed to live.
Posted by: Lester at February 24, 2014 06:32 PM (2UPXV)

Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot, Mao and the liberals. Now that's one hell of a group ha?

Posted by: Nevergiveup at February 24, 2014 06:35 PM (nzKvP)

141
Evil exists in many forms.
This is one instance of what evil looks like.

Posted by: soothsayer at February 24, 2014 06:35 PM (fMj88)

142 Here's an article from two years ago about this issue http://tinyurl.com/blqdc9r Isn't Peter Singer in this camp as well. You have to grow into "personhood". I need some crazy pills, man... some freaking CRAZY PILLS!

Posted by: radioactive at February 24, 2014 06:35 PM (HHFKO)

143 "I'm morbidly curious, though... I'd like to hear these people fully explain the qualifications of 'personhood'?"

Well, you have to understand that this view (and really a large chunk of the pro-abortion view in general) relies on the concept of functionalism.

The "beauty" in the functionalist system is that they can move the goal posts wherever they want them to be at the moment.

A good rule to follow though is that anyone who wants to designate another human being as a "non person" is doing so for nefarious reasons.

Posted by: Lauren at February 24, 2014 06:35 PM (hFL/3)

144

“Partial-birth abortion” is a term invented by pro-lifers. But “after-birth abortion” is a term invented by two philosophers, Alberto Giubilini and Francesca Minerva. In the Journal of Medical Ethics, they propose:

[W]hen circumstances occur after birth such that they would have justified abortion, what we call after-birth abortion should be permissible. … [W]e propose to call this practice ‘after-birth abortion’, rather than ‘infanticid

Journal of medical ethics.

Posted by: willow at February 24, 2014 06:35 PM (nqBYe)

145 Why don't they just kill themselves, first like. You know "down for the cause" and all that... Think of the cred they'd have ...

Posted by: tubal at February 24, 2014 06:36 PM (YEQ2h)

146 But they are against Capital Punishment?

Posted by: Nevergiveup at February 24, 2014 06:36 PM (nzKvP)

147 No, crazy means something. He lived his life in a very rational manner to achieve his goals of academic power and influence. He's objectively not crazy.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at February 24, 2014 06:36 PM (ZPrif)

148

Here's a thought. All those gang-related deaths of black youths are merely postpartum abortions. Planned Parenthood should be down for that struggle, yo.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at February 24, 2014 06:37 PM (olDqf)

149 Bill D totally, i mean why should we have to experience such a degradation. We should be able to dispose of those that offendsus.

Posted by: willow at February 24, 2014 06:37 PM (nqBYe)

150 Even though it's not a new article...the terminology keeps popping up.
And the 'philosophy' is still around.


[from quoted Text:]
"… Indeed, however weak the interests of actual people can be, they will always trump the alleged interest of potential people to become actual ones, because this latter interest amounts to zero."

This is survival-of-the-fittest in its most savage form.

Leftists like to use children as props when it suits them.
But when it doesn't suit them...they are disposable.

We see this popping up even in the realm of Education...
Didn't the head of the Teachers Union say something like:
"Children don't have a vote, so their interests don't count."

Babies are 'potential people'.
Children aren't 'actual people' yet.
And Conservatives...are 'un-people'.

Posted by: wheatie at February 24, 2014 06:37 PM (DEUoo)

151
So infanticide should beOK, and is just Post Partum Abortion. After all, it is just the Mother's Right to Choose.

And if Mommy has that right, what about Society?
Shouldn't Society get the right torid itself of undesirables?

Posted by: Adolf from Bavaria at February 24, 2014 06:37 PM (D+lxs)

152

brb, lookin for sexual symbolism (alien-vagina-monsters) everywhere..

Posted by: soothsayer at February 24, 2014 06:37 PM (fMj88)

153 Divorce can be trying as well .

Posted by: Bill D. Cat at February 24, 2014 06:34 PM (XWw96)


Cut. Jib. Newsletter.

Posted by: blaster at February 24, 2014 06:37 PM (4+AaH)

154
Here's a thought. All those gang-related deaths of black youths are merely postpartum abortions. Planned Parenthood should be down for that struggle, yo.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at February 24, 2014 06:37 PM (olDqf)

Can you read my mind?

Posted by: Nevergiveup at February 24, 2014 06:37 PM (nzKvP)

155 Posted by: Flatbush Joe at February 24, 2014 06:33 PM (ZPrif)

Listen, it's going to take a long time, but we are slowly undoing his influence.

The key is we have to keep fighting,
(Hear that Office of Law animal welfare, FIGHTING. If you let peta march over you... oh forget it.)

Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) (tablet) at February 24, 2014 06:38 PM (a8eFL)

156 What about my right to choose?

Posted by: Boss Moss at February 24, 2014 06:38 PM (6bMeY)

157 What was holder's mother thinking?

Posted by: Nevergiveup at February 24, 2014 06:38 PM (nzKvP)

158 No, crazy means something. He lived his life in a very rational manner to achieve his goals of academic power and influence. He's objectively not crazy.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe


Are you under the impression that psychopaths are all homeless bums?

Posted by: weft cut-loop at February 24, 2014 06:38 PM (xrX4n)

159 Zeke Emanuel has created priority classes of humans ,and babies and old folks don't do so well.

Babies have not yet begun to earn their keep and the productive years of the elderly are behind them.

Highest on the priority list: teens and young adults

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at February 24, 2014 06:38 PM (DmNpO)

160 How about the kid's right to choose?


Oh, yeah. He doesn't count.



Why is it that, if left to their own devices long enough, libs all become so murdery?

Posted by: tcn at February 24, 2014 06:39 PM (fwcEs)

161 "
[W]hen circumstances occur after birth such that they would have justified abortion, what we call after-birth abortion should be permissible. …"

Oh, and these "after birth abortions" are already occurring. The Netherlands have something called the Groningen protocol that allows doctors to decide to kill a disabled child.

Posted by: Lauren at February 24, 2014 06:39 PM (hFL/3)

162 I like the term "retroactive abortion".

I'm all for it.

And I've got a list.

Sound creepy? Yeah, it is.

Posted by: AmishDude at February 24, 2014 06:39 PM (T0NGe)

163 "He is a whack job with a named chair and tenure at Princeton."

The Moloch Chair?

Posted by: Decaf at February 24, 2014 06:39 PM (Bwva0)

164 Sane is just another word for high functioning psychopath.

Posted by: Boss Moss at February 24, 2014 06:39 PM (6bMeY)

165 154
Here's a thought. All those gang-related deaths of black youths are merely postpartum abortions. Planned Parenthood should be down for that struggle, yo.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at February 24, 2014 06:37 PM (olDqf)

Can you read my mind?
Posted by: Nevergiveup at February 24, 2014 06:37 PM (nzKvP)


Were you thinking along these lines, jawbreaker???!!

Wow!

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at February 24, 2014 06:40 PM (olDqf)

166 "But how can you be pro-life and support the death penalty?!" They howl.

Fuck you.

When you give a baby twelve men, a lawyer and a judge before it can be aborted, I'll oppose the death penalty.

Posted by: RoyalOil at February 24, 2014 06:40 PM (VjL9S)

167 How about the kid's right to choose?


Does he have a vote? As far as democrats are concerned only after he is dead and buried

Posted by: Nevergiveup at February 24, 2014 06:40 PM (nzKvP)

168 brb, lookin for sexual symbolism (alien-vagina-monsters) everywhere..

Did they even see Species?

Posted by: blaster at February 24, 2014 06:40 PM (4+AaH)

169 But they are against Capital Punishment?

You just know they are.

Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this shit at February 24, 2014 06:40 PM (0HooB)

170
Can you read my mind?
Posted by: Nevergiveup at February 24, 2014 06:37 PM (nzKvP)


Were you thinking along these lines, jawbreaker???!!

Wow!
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at February 24, 2014 06:40 PM (olDqf)

LOL, no I was thinking something in response to that

Posted by: Nevergiveup at February 24, 2014 06:41 PM (nzKvP)

171 So, what about teens? Damned inconvenient, they can be. Expensive. Quite the imposition on one's life...

How about this: Up until the time that the precocious little clump of cells can wrestle the scissors from its mother's hand, it's fair game. As long as it's done humanely, of course. We're not monsters, after all. When it can go get a job, stop being a burden and move out of its parents' basement -- then it's human.

But seriously, when the difference between "quality health care" and "murder" comes down to a few inches or a few minutes, there's just got to be something wrong with the definition of one or the other.

Damned uncomfortable...

Posted by: pjf at February 24, 2014 06:41 PM (e4wW9)

172
It's funny how Ward Churchill (a fake indian and a fake scholar and educator) coined the phrase "little Eichmanns" when the entire Left is a bunch of Little Hitlers.

Posted by: soothsayer at February 24, 2014 06:41 PM (fMj88)

173 162 An image from the old 2000AD comment sticks in my head,people putting a baby into an incinerator chute marked " Retroactive Abortion".

Posted by: steevy at February 24, 2014 06:41 PM (zqvg6)

174 Also, it is important to note that our Dear Leader is 100% on board with this.

When faced with the opportunity to save the lives of babies who had been born *alive* following an abortion he voted not once, not twice, but three times to let them die a slow and agonizing death of suffocation.

Why? Because offering them life saving interventions might "interfere with the woman's original decision to abort."

Posted by: Lauren at February 24, 2014 06:41 PM (hFL/3)

175 Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at February 24, 2014 06:38 PM (DmNpO)

Zeke is ultimately the most dangerous because unlike singer and his ilk who just want to kill people, Zeke discusses it in terms of limited resources (which people respond to with less revulsion).

Also he's an idiot with no understanding of the importance of future generations.

Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) (tablet) at February 24, 2014 06:41 PM (a8eFL)

176 When I read insanity like this, all I can say is thank G-d for the 2nd Amendment. NEVER let them take our guns.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at February 24, 2014 06:41 PM (olDqf)

177 I had a self-described liberal woman once tell me that abortion was OK because most of the kids would just end up on welfare anyway.

I the got a blank stare from her when I asked if that were true, then wouldn't it be OK to kill anyone on welfare?

Posted by: Albie Damned at February 24, 2014 06:41 PM (cGaCp)

178 The Netherlands have something called the Groningen protocol that allows doctors to decide to kill a disabled child.

Then there is no logical reason not to kill a disabled adult.

Even those who become disabled, say by stroke or head injury.

And then the idea of 'disability' becomes malleable.

And soon...

Posted by: --- at February 24, 2014 06:41 PM (MMC8r)

179
Here's a thought. All those gang-related deaths of black youths are merely postpartum abortions. Planned Parenthood should be down for that struggle, yo.




Hey, I tried my best in the 1940's. My buddy Josef Steel was going to do the same thing in the 1950's.

But that Mao guy, wow did he ever undeliver and over-produce.

Posted by: Adolf from Bavaria at February 24, 2014 06:42 PM (D+lxs)

180 Since capital punishment by drug administration is cruel and unusual, how would these acolytes of the devil like to see infanticide actually accomplished? Are we talking Dr. Kevorkian sorts of murders, or are going the full Gosnell?

Posted by: MTF at February 24, 2014 06:42 PM (F58x4)

181 170 LOL, no I was thinking something in response to that
Posted by: Nevergiveup at February 24, 2014 06:41 PM (nzKvP)


Répond, S'il Vous Plait….


Posted by: J.J. Sefton at February 24, 2014 06:42 PM (olDqf)

182 The term "pro choice" means someone else gets to choose who lives and who dies.

Given the way things are going, someone someday will be making that choice about you.

First they came for the babies ......

Posted by: grammie winger at February 24, 2014 06:42 PM (oMKp3)

183 I had a self-described liberal woman once tell me that abortion was OK because most of the kids would just end up on welfare anyway.

But I'm sure she would have called you a Nazi if you suggested cutting welfare.

Posted by: --- at February 24, 2014 06:42 PM (MMC8r)

184 The left is always claims to be doing something "for" the children when in reality, they're always doing something "to" the children.

Posted by: Blake at February 24, 2014 06:42 PM (WuGBT)

185 180 Since capital punishment by drug administration is cruel and unusual, how would these acolytes of the devil like to see infanticide actually accomplished? Are we talking Dr. Kevorkian sorts of murders, or are going the full Gosnell?
Posted by: MTF at February 24, 2014 06:42 PM (F58x4)



Hammers. Or just do like their hero John Demjanjuk and just slam the kid's head on the side of the cattle car. I mean, bullets are expensive.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at February 24, 2014 06:43 PM (olDqf)

186 I'm probably an odd duck about this, but it always bothered me when I'd hear expectant couples say "as long as the baby's healthy, I don't care"...usually talking about the baby's gender. What if it ISN'T healthy, hopeful parents, do you just smother it with a pillow then? I partly wonder if this isn't due to the rise in autism or certain other disabilities on spectrum. Once they are old enough to be an obvious burden to you, blot them out, start over. Never mind the joy and love FROM the sacrifice that child might bring.

NGL, I teared up a bit when Alex Bilodeau won his second gold at the olympics, his bro with cerebral palsy cheering him on. Alex completely credits his brother for his success and as his main source of inspiration, whereas someone like Singer wants him to view his brother as a burden. Horrible man.


Posted by: LizLem at February 24, 2014 06:43 PM (BF+2f)

187
Is it true that the people with Gender Studies degrees are brain damaged?

I had a program in the 1930's to deal with that problem.

Posted by: Adolf from Bavaria at February 24, 2014 06:43 PM (D+lxs)

188 Posted by: Albie Damned at February 24, 2014 06:41 PM (cGaCp)

MARGRET SANGER LIVES!

Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) (tablet) at February 24, 2014 06:44 PM (a8eFL)

189 DeTh worship seems to be all the rage these days. I'm sure this nihilism has a name, but I know that mere "Liberalism" isn't it.

Posted by: tubal at February 24, 2014 06:44 PM (YEQ2h)

190 "I still know a few hipsters in my own department no less who love him because and I quote "he gives to charity."

Doesn't seem to be convinced by his own arguments then.

Posted by: Decaf at February 24, 2014 06:44 PM (Bwva0)

191 188 Posted by: Albie Damned at February 24, 2014 06:41 PM (cGaCp)

MARGRET SANGER LIVES!
Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) (tablet) at February 24, 2014 06:44 PM (a8eFL)


When did she ever die?

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at February 24, 2014 06:45 PM (olDqf)

192 No, crazy means something. He lived his life in a very rational manner to achieve his goals of academic power and influence. He's objectively not crazy.

I couldn't disagree more.

My mother held a job and paid her bills on time. Got a driver's license and went grocery shopping. Had friends and everything. Put up a Christmas tree every year.

And she was batshit crazy.

Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this shit at February 24, 2014 06:45 PM (0HooB)

193 >>But they are against Capital Punishment?

And absolutely believe in AGW.

Posted by: JackStraw at February 24, 2014 06:45 PM (g1DWB)

194 In these cases, since non-persons have no moral rights to life, there are no reasons for banning after-birth abortions

Your ideas intrigue me and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter.

Posted by: Zombie Josef Mengele at February 24, 2014 06:45 PM (CnA98)

195 175...Zeke is ultimately the most dangerous because unlike singer and his ilk who just want to kill people, Zeke discusses it in terms of limited resources (which people respond to with less revulsion).

Posted by: tsrblke

---------

Singer? Are you referring to Margaret Sanger?
Or is there another one, named 'singer'.

Posted by: wheatie at February 24, 2014 06:45 PM (DEUoo)

196 Posted by: LizLem at February 24, 2014 06:43 PM (BF+2f)

The question is "what do you want."

I should hope people want healthy kids. Wanting a desirable outcome is not a bad thing. The question is how do you react when you don't get the desirable outcome.

Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) (tablet) at February 24, 2014 06:45 PM (a8eFL)

197 133
If you can terminate in the womb for sex selection, why can't you
terminate out of the womb if the ultrasound technician got it wrong ?


Serious question.Posted by: grammie winger at February 24, 2014 06:34 PM (oMKp3)

That will be fine and dandy and trotted out by the left until some parent murders their child for showing gay or transgender tendencies. Then and only then, is it a hatecrime.

Posted by: LizLem at February 24, 2014 06:46 PM (BF+2f)

198
G-d forbid you go to dinner with libs and order veal.

I did, and I told them to chill since it wasn't a fully formed cow anyway.

You should've seen the reaction. PRICE-FUCKING-LESS!!!!

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at February 24, 2014 06:46 PM (olDqf)

199 Zeke is ultimately the most dangerous because unlike singer and his ilk who just want to kill people, Zeke discusses it in terms of limited resources (which people respond to with less revulsion).

Also he's an idiot with no understanding of the importance of future generations.

***

His writing is dangerously seductive. It's easy to get lost in the numbers and his rationale until you step back and shake yourself to what it is he is REALLY talking about.

I was so taken aback by the piece that I bookmarked it a while ago.

http://bit.ly/1bZFjXz

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at February 24, 2014 06:46 PM (DmNpO)

200 Death Worship....sheesh.

Posted by: tubal at February 24, 2014 06:46 PM (YEQ2h)

201 wheatie i believe it is Peter singer

Posted by: willow at February 24, 2014 06:47 PM (nqBYe)

202 Doesn't seem to be convinced by his own arguments then.

Posted by: Decaf at February 24, 2014 06:44 PM (Bwva0)


He gives to lefty causes like animals and the environments IIRC

Posted by: wheatie at February 24, 2014 06:45 PM (DEUoo)

Singer, Peter. But also Sanger, she did come first.

Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) (tablet) at February 24, 2014 06:47 PM (a8eFL)

203 "Doesn't seem to be convinced by his own arguments then."

Oh, no giving to charity is a huge part of his utilitarian argument. He's not a Nihilist. He believes that you should do everything possible to remove human suffering from the world. He even has a handy dandy utilitarian scale to measure how giving to charity harms you, helps you, and helps and harms another person.

It's all very methodical. And also complete bullshit.

Posted by: Lauren at February 24, 2014 06:47 PM (hFL/3)

204 However, having a child can itself be an unbearable burden for the psychological health of the woman or for her already existing children,1 regardless of the condition of the fetus. This could happen in the case of a woman who loses her partner after she finds out that she is pregnant and therefore feels she will not be able to take care of the possible child by herself.[\i]

Yes, possible children are a burden.
Obama said so.

Posted by: Roland THTG at February 24, 2014 06:47 PM (qyoyx)

205 66 @57 so in California they are debating whether you need to have full written consent to each sexual act, which would make rape undocumented sex.
Posted by: blaster at February 24, 2014 06:23 PM (4+AaH)


That was a chapelle show skit. "And initial here if you agree to anal."

Posted by: Buzzion at February 24, 2014 06:47 PM (AqSMa)

206 Let's just call it what it is. Murder. We will be brow beaten into accepting this perversion too. I want off this fucking planet.

Posted by: Truck Monkey, Gruntled New Business Owner at February 24, 2014 06:48 PM (jucos)

207 well i sure am glad death panels aren't real , imagine life and death decisions in this type of persons hand.

wonder How one gets that job.

Posted by: willow at February 24, 2014 06:48 PM (nqBYe)

208

Pete Seeger?

Posted by: soothsayer at February 24, 2014 06:48 PM (fMj88)

209 One of these days there will be a generation who fight this and win.

Posted by: ChristyBlinky, Duchess of Something at February 24, 2014 06:10 PM (baL2B)


Not if we have anything to say about it!

Posted by: NARAL at February 24, 2014 06:48 PM (XvHmy)

210 Oh yeah...Pete Singer.
Forgot about that dickhead.
Thanks guys.

Posted by: wheatie at February 24, 2014 06:48 PM (DEUoo)

211 You don't want women to be "punished with a baby" do you?

Posted by: TFG Eulogizing Mandela at February 24, 2014 06:48 PM (Uo7Tv)

Posted by: Roland THTG at February 24, 2014 06:48 PM (qyoyx)

213 202 Singer, Peter. But also Sanger, she did come first.
Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) (tablet) at February 24, 2014 06:47 PM (a8eFL)


Singer, Sanger and Seeger.

If I had a hammer,
I'd hammer out that vulva…

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at February 24, 2014 06:49 PM (olDqf)

214 Oops, auto-filled nickname.

Posted by: TFG at February 24, 2014 06:49 PM (Uo7Tv)

215 Ephesians 6:12
For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms.

Posted by: Boss Moss at February 24, 2014 06:50 PM (6bMeY)

216 Is it true that the people with Gender Studies degrees are brain damaged?

I had a program in the 1930's to deal with that problem.

Posted by: Adolf from Bavaria at February 24, 2014 06:43 PM (D+lxs)


Taking that argument a bit further, why then should we be judgmental of the "after-birth abortions" of some 6 million unpersons such as Jews, gypsies and homosexuals?


All joking aside, these Leftists are evil and, if events trend as I think they will, there will be fighting in the streets.

Posted by: Retired Buckeye Cop at February 24, 2014 06:50 PM (1htQa)

217 But they are against post-murder conviction abortion.

Posted by: real joe at February 24, 2014 06:50 PM (xXhgd)

218 206 Let's just call it what it is. Murder. We will be brow beaten into accepting this perversion too. I want off this fucking planet.
Posted by: Truck Monkey, Gruntled New Business Owner at February 24, 2014 06:48 PM (jucos)


As that great champion of children, Woody Allen, said:

"Murder is just extroverted suicide."

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at February 24, 2014 06:50 PM (olDqf)

219 Each of my pregnancies was high risk. My second pregnancy, I was advised to have an abortion because of the high risk of fetal abnormalities. Needless to say, I paid no attention to the doctor.

People would give me that line "as long as it's healthy" and I would always respond, "and even if it's not".

The outcome of the pregnancy that was termed by my doctor as "probable fetal wastage " graduated with honors from a private college and now serves in the United States Armed Forces.


Posted by: grammie winger at February 24, 2014 06:50 PM (oMKp3)

220 Religiously, I am not wise enough to know when the Soul enters the body...

As a Libertarian, I am not smart enough to know when this 'clump of cells' becomes a self aware person, and so having Inalienable Rights.

So I will ere on the side of caution.... and limit abortion as much as our society will tolerate...

First trimester its voluntary.... after that, you need some legal process.... Doctor to a Judge perhaps? For cases where the Mothers life is in danger, or in cases of rape or incest.

Posted by: Romeo13 at February 24, 2014 06:50 PM (84gbM)

221 and yet i bet all these folks that think Life has no value, live-d to be a ripe old age themselves.

Posted by: willow at February 24, 2014 06:50 PM (nqBYe)

222
175...Zeke is ultimately the most dangerous because unlike singer and his ilk who just want to kill people, Zeke discusses it in terms of limited resources (which people respond to with less revulsion).

Posted by: tsrblke

---------




I was dealing with limited resources in the 1930's and 1940's.
Action T4 really reduced those useless mouths.

Posted by: Adolf from Bavaria at February 24, 2014 06:50 PM (D+lxs)

223 Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at February 24, 2014 06:46 PM (DmNpO)

Dan Callahan makes an interesting argument that we should be spending research dollars on cures for the diseases that affect the youngest first, and only after that focus on life extension for the old.

It's more nuanced though because he still want's care for the elderly, he's more interested in the fact that we spend a bunch on life extension, ignoring that we are in fact, mortal.

Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) (tablet) at February 24, 2014 06:50 PM (a8eFL)

224
All joking aside, these Leftists are evil and, if events trend as I think they will, there will be fighting in the streets.

Posted by: Retired Buckeye Cop at February 24, 2014 06:50 PM (1htQa)


A lot of us are thinking along these lines. Don't bring a knife to a gunfight.


Posted by: D-Lamp at February 24, 2014 06:51 PM (bb5+k)

225 >80 Moloch is thirsty.
> Posted by: BCochran1981 - Credible Hulk at February 24, 2014 06:26 PM

THIS! Nailed it. Completely.

Moloch is there, and there are those that are very eager to feed their hungry god.

Posted by: Mordineus at February 24, 2014 06:51 PM (8hWPY)

226 " so in California they are debating whether you need to have full written consent to each sexual act, which would make rape undocumented sex. "

I was joking with my husband about an i-pad ap that required both parties enter a password before sex. I guess it's not a joke now...

Posted by: Lauren at February 24, 2014 06:51 PM (hFL/3)

227 It Takes A Village™ to decide whether a child lives or dies. What momma thinks won't count.

Posted by: mrp at February 24, 2014 06:51 PM (JBggj)

228 Dang, this slope is slippery!

Posted by: Mindy at February 24, 2014 06:51 PM (mQwL2)

229 All joking aside, these Leftists are evil and, if events trend as I think they will, there will be fighting in the streets.
Posted by: Retired Buckeye Cop at February 24, 2014 06:50 PM (1htQa) ___________________I agree with you. That is what they want.

Posted by: Truck Monkey, Gruntled New Business Owner at February 24, 2014 06:51 PM (jucos)

230 Posted by: Boss Moss at February 24, 2014 06:50 PM (6bMeY)


==========


True words. It doesn't get plainer than that.

Posted by: grammie winger at February 24, 2014 06:52 PM (oMKp3)

231 Its never old news when someone proposes the murder of innocents.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at February 24, 2014 06:52 PM (iVmdV)

232

Why do I get the sneaking suspicion that the leftists are doing this only as a weird smokescreen so that they can de-criminalize and normalize pedophilia?

"Okay, we won't kill them. We'll just "love" them…"

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at February 24, 2014 06:52 PM (olDqf)

233 The question is how do you react when you don't get the desirable outcome.

One does what one must: Lots and lots of doctor visits and operations.

I learned a lot more about the inner workings of a hospital than I ever thought I would.

Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this shit at February 24, 2014 06:53 PM (0HooB)

234 Romeo,

Just go with science. A new, unique human life is formed at amphimixis. It's really very, very simple.

Posted by: Lauren at February 24, 2014 06:53 PM (hFL/3)

235 Boss Moss- Two thumbs up.

Posted by: Tobacco Road at February 24, 2014 06:53 PM (4Mv1T)

236 Back in the eighties I told women I was against abortion because the acceptance of it would lead to a lack of respect for human life.

We now have:
1. Women carrying signs saying "Free abortion for all, no apologies". For many women, abortion is no longer something to be avoided.
2. Those prominent in the women's movement condoning late term abortion for pretty much any reason the woman wants.
3. Discussion of After-birth abortion.
4. MSM largely silent about Gosnell.

Posted by: nerdygirl at February 24, 2014 06:54 PM (Uo7Tv)

237 "A cancer is an uncontrolled multiplication of cells;
the population explosion is an uncontrolled multiplication of people.
We must shift our efforts from the treatment of the symptoms to
the cutting out of the cancer. The operation will demand many
apparently brutal and heartless decisions.''
- Prof Paul Ehrlich,
The Population Bomb

Posted by: JackStraw at February 24, 2014 06:54 PM (g1DWB)

238 So Zeke is Kodos the Executioner?

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at February 24, 2014 06:54 PM (iVmdV)

239 We should sit these people down, calmly explain to them that a sober utilitarian calculus has determined that the world is better off without them, and then shoot them in the head.

Posted by: David Gillies at February 24, 2014 06:54 PM (wscOM)

240 205
66 @57 so in California they are debating whether you need to have full
written consent to each sexual act, which would make rape undocumented
sex.
Posted by: blaster at February 24, 2014 06:23 PM (4+AaH)

Which you then must post to Twitter or FB! And it all comes full circle, the info gathering.

But seriously, some lefties care more about the Sochi strays then they do helpless babies. It is mindboggling. You can care about both, libs!

Posted by: LizLem at February 24, 2014 06:54 PM (BF+2f)

241 Sanger and Singer, sitting in a tree

K-I-L-L-I-N-G.

Posted by: --- at February 24, 2014 06:54 PM (MMC8r)

242 Chapelle did a funny bit on the consent form for sex .

Posted by: Bill D. Cat at February 24, 2014 06:54 PM (XWw96)

243 Zeke is ultimately the most dangerous because unlike singer and his ilk who just want to kill people, Zeke discusses it in terms of limited resources (which people respond to with less revulsion).

People object to the "slippery slope" argument, but in the case of euthanasia, it's obvious:

First, there is a right to die (and it means under the auspices of the state and with the imprimatur of the medical profession).

Second, there is an encouragement to die. You are taking up too much of the fatherland's resources, comrade, why don't you do the right thing? See all of those other people who have spared us the problem of their expensive existence.

Third, there is a duty to die. If you insist on living, you are harming us and you are harming your children by being so selfish.

Fourth, there is a requirement to die. We just can't allow people the guilt-ridden choice to keep on living.

That's why the absolute view on life is useful. It prevents the slide we're seeing in Benelux.

Posted by: AmishDude at February 24, 2014 06:54 PM (T0NGe)

244

It all makes sense when you notice the pattern. The Left is always on the opposite side right; on the opposite of good; and on the opposite side normal.

Leftism is an ideology based on WRONG; steeped in Hate; and predicated on evil.



Posted by: soothsayer at February 24, 2014 06:55 PM (fMj88)

245 Just find yourself a wealthy husband to dump your kids on. Jeez.

Posted by: Wendy Davis at February 24, 2014 06:55 PM (Aif/5)

246 Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this shit at February 24, 2014 06:53 PM (0HooB)

Right sorry, I meant "the question of what type of person you are."

And you sir are a Moron, which is a good person by definition!

Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) (tablet) at February 24, 2014 06:55 PM (a8eFL)

247 Romeo13------ Yeah, I'm Christian "and" Libertarian, kinda pretty much. Go figure.... Anyway, I'm pretty convinced that the God I follow really wants me to err on the side of caution in this abortion thing.

Posted by: tubal at February 24, 2014 06:55 PM (YEQ2h)

248
Posted by: Retired Buckeye Cop at February 24, 2014 06:50 PM (1htQa)


I thought all you people resolved these issues in 1946-1948 at Nuremburg?

Just wait until my progeny in the Liberal Universities start talking about getting rid of the people between the coasts. After all, Lebenraum never goes out of style.

Posted by: Adolf from Bavaria at February 24, 2014 06:55 PM (D+lxs)

249 238 So Zeke is Kodos the Executioner?
Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at February 24, 2014 06:54 PM (iVmdV)


"Kodosh" is Hebrew for holy. Who wrote that Trek script?

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at February 24, 2014 06:55 PM (olDqf)

250 My brother was born physically handicapped and mentally retarded. He was one of the greatest blessings of my life. I would not be the person I am today had he not been with us for 27 years.

Posted by: grammie winger at February 24, 2014 06:55 PM (oMKp3)

251 For cases where the Mothers life is in danger, or in cases of rape or incest.

Posted by: Romeo13 at February 24, 2014 06:50 PM (84gbM)

Just a reminder that it doesn't necessarily reduce rape trauma to involve the victim/mother in the killing of an innocent person.

Posted by: Mindy at February 24, 2014 06:56 PM (mQwL2)

252 n order for a harm to occur, it is necessary that someone is in the condition of experiencing that harm. If a potential person, like a fetus and a newborn, does not become an actual person, like you and us, then there is neither an actual nor a future person who can be harmed, which means that there is no harm at all. … In these cases, since non-persons have no moral rights to life, there are no reasons for banning after-birth abortions.

Posted by: willow at February 24, 2014 06:56 PM (nqBYe)

253 “There is nothing magical about passing through the birth canal that transforms it from a fetus into a person.”

But declaring yourself a "progressive" at that very moment sure helps.

Posted by: Prez'nit 404 at February 24, 2014 06:56 PM (Dwehj)

254
Merkwürdiglieber…


Well, a kraut by any other name. Eh, Stains-ie????

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at February 24, 2014 06:57 PM (olDqf)

255 Peter Singer is a utilitarian philosopher.

And he's still alive. Which makes him a hypocrite.

Think about this. If you are truly utilitarian and believe what you say but you're a philosopher, you'll find the first opportunity to off yourself.

Posted by: AmishDude at February 24, 2014 06:57 PM (T0NGe)

256 I agree with you. That is what they want.

Posted by: Truck Monkey, Gruntled New Business Owner at February 24, 2014 06:51 PM (jucos)


That is what they *THINK* they want. I wish to take this opportunity to point out that they have never been right about anything.




Posted by: D-Lamp at February 24, 2014 06:57 PM (bb5+k)

257 Again, Giubilini and Minerva simply extend this logic beyond birth. Since the newborn isn’t a person yet, its significance continues to hinge on its mother’s decision. Neonates “might or might not become particular persons depending on our choice,” the authors argue. Until then, the newborn imposes no obligations on us, “because we are not justified in taking it for granted that she will exist as a person in the future.

Posted by: willow at February 24, 2014 06:57 PM (nqBYe)

258 You think Sanger yelled 'baby-killer' at returning vets in the '60s?

Posted by: --- at February 24, 2014 06:57 PM (MMC8r)

259 Complaining about this is why Repubs will never win elections.
Posted by: Larry, Curly and Moe Moe
-------------------------------------------

Okay, late to the party, but that was funny as hell right there. I was wondering where he was as soon as I saw the topic of the thread.

Posted by: Tobacco Road at February 24, 2014 06:58 PM (4Mv1T)

260 I'm sure Singer has conveniently calculated his utilitarian contribution to warrant his continual existence in the world.

Posted by: Lauren at February 24, 2014 06:58 PM (hFL/3)

261 On the one hand, if my enemies on the Left wish to murder their children, who am I to stop them? Imagine how many more libtards there would be if not for Roe.

But then, on the other is the fact is what they really want is the ability to tell OTHER PEOPLE when they MUST have abortions or kill their kids. That's what this all will lead to.

Why don't these commie turds just move to China where their kind fit right in?

Posted by: Reactionary at February 24, 2014 06:59 PM (jfeoD)

262 J.J. Sefton, according to IMDB for Conscience of the King, they are listed as Barry Trivers and Gene Roddenberry.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0394903/

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at February 24, 2014 06:59 PM (iVmdV)

263 244 It all makes sense when you notice the pattern. The Left is always on the opposite side right; on the opposite of good; and on the opposite side normal.

Leftism is an ideology based on WRONG; steeped in Hate; and predicated on evil.

Posted by: soothsayer

-----------

Well yeah, sooth...thus their Orwellian assault on the Dictionary.

They are constantly trying to 'redefine' words and change the meaning to camouflage their evil intent.

Good is evil...and Evil really isn't that bad, just 'misunderstood'.

Posted by: wheatie at February 24, 2014 06:59 PM (DEUoo)

264 Amish, of course, it's for Other people or non persons to suffer .

see al gore cutting way back on methane gassing. or living free of electricity.
hell he flies more in one year than my whole family so far in my lifetime.

but He objects to others doing as he does.


because special

Posted by: willow at February 24, 2014 06:59 PM (nqBYe)

265 Think about this. If you are truly utilitarian and believe what you say but you're a philosopher, you'll find the first opportunity to off yourself.

Posted by: AmishDude at February 24, 2014 06:57 PM (T0NGe)


Dude couldn't even off his mother as required.
Then blamed it on his sister.
Then claimed some bull about other's feelings (which he didn't care about before.)

I will make this his legacy. That he is a hypocrite.

Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) (tablet) at February 24, 2014 07:00 PM (a8eFL)

266
And he's still alive. Which makes him a hypocrite.

Think about this. If you are truly utilitarian and believe what you say but you're a philosopher, you'll find the first opportunity to off yourself.

Posted by: AmishDude at February 24, 2014 06:57 PM (T0NGe)


Nah dude, he died like last week or so.


Posted by: D-Lamp at February 24, 2014 07:00 PM (bb5+k)

267 257 - Willow... I'm getting the sense that G & M don't grant "personhood" until the "entity" registers as a Democrat.

Posted by: tubal at February 24, 2014 07:00 PM (YEQ2h)

268 >>>> 198
G-d forbid you go to dinner with libs and order veal.

I did, and I told them to chill since it wasn't a fully formed cow anyway.

You should've seen the reaction. PRICE-FUCKING-LESS!!!!
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at February 24, 2014 06:46 PM (olDqf)

On an entirely depressing and horrifying post, this made me laugh.

Posted by: L, elle at February 24, 2014 07:01 PM (0xqKe)

269 >>Zeke is ultimately the most dangerous because unlike singer and his ilk who just want to kill people, Zeke discusses it in terms of limited resources (which people respond to with less revulsion).


I'll get back up on my soapbox and once again tell you that all of these crazy leftist theories that seem unrelated are in fact all part of the same belief, man is the ultimate enemy of mankind and must be controlled. If not, the world will end in catastrophe.

>>"The common enemy of humanity is man.
In searching for a new enemy to unite us, we came up
with the idea that pollution, the threat of global warming,
water shortages, famine and the like would fit the bill. All these
dangers are caused by human intervention, and it is only through
changed attitudes and behavior that they can be overcome.
The real enemy then, is humanity itself."
- Club of Rome,
premier environmental think-tank,
consultants to the United Nations

Everything they say and do is premised on this. They just know (because they are so super smart) that without inventing theories such as AGW and Ehrlich's long discredited population bomb they will have no prayer of getting people to buy into their agenda. This isn't some conspiracy theory, they come right out and say it.

And this is where guys like Maurice Strong and Al Gore and Ehrlich and Emanuel and many other prominent lefties sprung from.

It's all about control.

Posted by: JackStraw at February 24, 2014 07:01 PM (g1DWB)

270

In other words, the Left is always fuckin with Normal.

Posted by: soothsayer at February 24, 2014 07:01 PM (fMj88)

271 There is a way that seems right to man,
But its end is the way of death.

Proverbs 14:12



Leftism in one sentence.

Posted by: grammie winger at February 24, 2014 07:02 PM (oMKp3)

272 Dan Callahan makes an interesting argument that we should be spending research dollars on cures for the diseases that affect the youngest first, and only after that focus on life extension for the old.

It's more nuanced though because he still want's care for the elderly, he's more interested in the fact that we spend a bunch on life extension, ignoring that we are in fact, mortal.

***

There is a certain point, for some, when their body lives, but in a decrepit state or, worse, their body outlives their mind, but... the expected lifespan for those in the civilized world, and the quality of life they experience, is made greater through medications for the aches and pains and, hopefully, some day soon, for dementia as well.

Extending life endlessly without improving the quality of that life does seem a bit absurd but, despite the aches and pains, I'd bet the leading cause for those who are eager to leave this Earth is loneliness, and that can be cured without medicine.

I wonder how eager those ethicists would be to put an end to the uselessness of an elderly person were it their own mother or father.

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at February 24, 2014 07:02 PM (DmNpO)

273 So okay, it was three weeks ago.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pete_Seeger

Posted by: D-Lamp at February 24, 2014 07:03 PM (bb5+k)

274 Are you a god?
No.
Then DIE!!!!

Posted by: mrp at February 24, 2014 07:03 PM (JBggj)

275 Lets post birth abort all leftists. I mean, what is 60 or so years anyway? Nothing.

Besides, they are going to die anyway. And since consciousness ends with death, there is no one to protest the act.

So, lets post-birth abort all leftists.

/sarc

Posted by: Holger at February 24, 2014 07:03 PM (bolUf)

276 My bad. Brain fart or something.


Posted by: D-Lamp at February 24, 2014 07:04 PM (bb5+k)

277 Right sorry, I meant "the question of what type of person you are."


No need for an apology, t-bike, I know what you meant.

At least with BBoySquared, it was all skin and bone. Still, it was a lot for a young couple to deal with, especially when the first thing you hear from a doc is, "He may be disabled..." which he wasn't, thank God.

Two of the bravest people I've ever known sorta adopted me when I was in my teens. Their firstborn had MD, they went ahead and had two more kids, both normal, one of whom was my best bud for many years.

Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this shit at February 24, 2014 07:04 PM (0HooB)

278 270 In other words, the Left is always fuckin with Normal.

---------

Yeah, they don't like Normal.
'Normal' means that they might have to actually work for a living, or live by some rules.

But they're starting to get all tangled up in their own bullshit.

If Evil is good...and conservatives are evil...doesn't that make conservatives good?

Posted by: wheatie at February 24, 2014 07:05 PM (DEUoo)

279 I wonder how eager those ethicists would be to put an end to the
uselessness of an elderly person were it their own mother or father.


That depends on how they vote.

Posted by: Prez'nit 404 at February 24, 2014 07:05 PM (Dwehj)

280 Wonder if these folks who are calling for post-birth abortion would like it if Sandmen showed up and took them to Renewal.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at February 24, 2014 07:06 PM (iVmdV)

281
let's get to the nood

Posted by: soothsayer at February 24, 2014 07:06 PM (fMj88)

282 As the grandfather to identical twins* I never have a question as to when life begins. I calculate when their separate lives began, then subtract a couple of minutes.

* Not perfectly, one is right handed, one is left handed -- so they are kind of mirror image. One likes sports, the other likes artsy kinda stuff. One has a part on the right, the other has a part more to the left. But they both developed from one egg, moments after conception.

Posted by: SE Pa Moron at February 24, 2014 07:07 PM (CnA98)

283 Robert A Heinlein : "Men are expendable; women and children are not. A tribe or a nation can lose a high percentage of its men and still pick up the pieces and go on… as long as the women and children are saved. But if you fail to save the women and children, you've had it, you're done, you're through! You join Tyrannosaurus Rex, one more breed that bilged its final test."

This is what they actually are after. They are so filled with self-loathing that they wish for extinction.
Extinction, or the death wish. The Death Wish is a later philosophical term associated with revulsion towards modernity, and self -loathing and self - hatred.

It is not any more complicated than that. Sure, Singer and people like him are at root high-functioning psychopaths (so were Hitler, Mao, Stalin, Lenin, Pol Pot, and the list goes on).

The first reaction is anger and hatred. But only love can conquer hate. I don't claim to find any way to love Singer and people like that, but if you respond to him with hate, he wins. The psychopath always wins with the expansion of anger and hate, because at root he just wants to watch the world burn. That makes him feel powerful.

We can kid about "let it burn", but there is always a day after. After that, what? Unchained anger, killing, hate. It's hard to put the pieces back together again after it's blown apart.

It's like that fool Baldwin today; with all his talent and fame, he can't control his own emotions, and he's frankly just a puddle of uncontrolled hate and emotion, and he's wrecked his profitable professional life.

Posted by: Ribald Conservative riding Orca at February 24, 2014 07:08 PM (+1T7c)

284 Willow... I'm getting the sense that G & M don't grant "personhood" until the "entity" registers as a Democrat.

Posted by: tubal at February 24, 2014 07:00 PM (YEQ2h)

tubal perhaps so.
I imagine they concern themsleves with even liberal parents raising a person with morals and thus not going along with the program.
so why take a chance !

Posted by: willow at February 24, 2014 07:09 PM (nqBYe)

285 I stumbled on this when searching for other stuff on BGSU's online journals access thing. It's quite real. It got me interested in seeing if other eugenicist BS got printed in these journals, and I found a few more that were a couple years older. I dumped the links because they were behind paywalls or got yanked because guys like me kept posting them and stirring up trouble, heh.

Posted by: Ranba Ral at February 24, 2014 07:14 PM (G99e4)

286 Crikey's. Thanks Mom and Dad for getting me baptrized as a RC.

I so Love my Church and Faith. Without it, I would be a collapsed bowl of s___.

“In the absence of faith, we govern by tenderness. And tenderness leads to the gas chamber.” — Flannery O’Connor

Posted by: havildar - major at February 24, 2014 07:18 PM (kduZC)

287 Wouldn't be more expedient and "ethical" for these philosophers to promote homosexuality?

Posted by: Fritz at February 24, 2014 07:21 PM (PnMCP)

288 Posted by: Ribald Conservative riding Orca at February 24, 2014 07:08 PM (+1T7c)

Freudian Death-Instincts? I'll say toss in a bit of Nietzsche's slave Morality and you describe Liberalism to a T.

Posted by: Holger at February 24, 2014 07:23 PM (bolUf)

289 "Let all the babies be born. Then let us drown those we do not like." ~ G.K.Chesterton

Posted by: Strife at February 24, 2014 07:26 PM (Ojgjr)

290 @286


“Push back against the age as hard as it pushes against you.
What people don’t realize is how much religion costs.They think faith
is a big electric blanket, when of course it is the cross.” ~ Flannery O’Connor

Posted by: Strife at February 24, 2014 07:27 PM (Ojgjr)

291 You mean the Katrina Effert defence?

Posted by: Been there, done that at February 24, 2014 07:28 PM (AVmRg)

292 I can think of a whole bunch of 150-250th trimester abortions in DC whose time has come.

Posted by: Beagle at February 24, 2014 07:34 PM (sOtz/)

293 "The right to life is the foundation of every other human right. If that right is not inviolate, then no right can be guaranteed." – Archbishop Chaput

Time to get in the line of battle. I don't know which group comprises the greatest threat to civilization, Islam or our own secular nihilist selves...

Posted by: havildar - major at February 24, 2014 07:34 PM (kduZC)

294 None of us are "in a condition of experiencing" death. We don't "experience" death - once we are dead we "experience" nothing. The conflation of harm and death is the problem with this philosophy. Killing infants (including aborting them) does not "harm" them - it kills them - and denies years of "experience" they would otherwise have.

Posted by: Chris at February 24, 2014 07:54 PM (V6OWD)

295 What's The Matter With White People And Pro-Lifers

Posted by: Joan Walsh at February 24, 2014 08:42 PM (dg2a8)

296 This reminds me of a "pro life" e-mail list I was briefly involved with about ten years ago. The majority of the people involved in that list believed that the best course of action when dealing with fatal fetal anomalies was to induce birth as soon as the defect was learned of and let the baby die, despite the fact that even if the baby was healthy it would not be able to survive at that point.

The majority of the women involved stated that as soon as they learned of a defect that wasn't "fixable" that they were having labor induced at that moment and they didn't care what anybody else said because they wanted that baby out of them as soon as possible.

Yet they still called themselves pro-life and insisted that these types of actions were morally permissible because they weren't technically abortions.

At that point there was a lot of screaming in my direction and I was kicked off the e-mail list. So I don't know if they approved of this course of action for non-fatal defects (like Downs or dwarfism) or if they would support taking steps to end the baby's life if it didn't die quickly enough on its own.

One can legitimately debate the issue of late-term abortion in the case of birth defects, but I have a real issue with people who play these kinds of mind games in order to absolve responsibility for something as repugnant as deliberately engineering infanticide in a way that makes them feel better about themselves.

But I do wonder about these situations anytime legalizing infanticide is discussed.

Posted by: Kat at February 24, 2014 09:07 PM (jjkR7)

297 Gerhard Herbert Kretschmar (20 February 1939 – 25 July 1939) has no comment.

Posted by: Fox2! at February 24, 2014 10:10 PM (cHwSy)

298 Wonder if these folks who are calling for post-birth abortion would like it if Sandmen showed up and took them to Renewal.

Carousel!

Posted by: Fox2! at February 24, 2014 10:16 PM (cHwSy)

299 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Pre-persons

Philip K. Dick saw this coming back in 1974.

Posted by: Epobirs at February 24, 2014 10:18 PM (bPxS6)

300 290 @286
“Push back against the age as hard as it pushes against you.
What people don’t realize is how much religion costs.They think faith
is a big electric blanket, when of course it is the cross.” ~ Flannery O’Connor

Quite so. That is one of my favorites from Miss O'Connor.

I'd come back with...



"If there is no battle, there is no Christianity." Pope Benedict XVI


and


“A Saint keeps watch over his country and obtains it’s salvation. His prayers and virtues are more powerful than all the armies of the world.” –St Peter Julian Eymard

Posted by: havildar - major at February 24, 2014 11:23 PM (grMA8)

301 Havildar-Major,

Where did you run across Peter-Julain Eymard? He's not one of the most well known saints.

I was in formation with the Sacrementini from 1999-2001.

Posted by: Fox2! at February 25, 2014 01:34 AM (cHwSy)

302 Peter-Julian.

My novice Master would be ashamed.

Posted by: Fox2! at February 25, 2014 01:36 AM (cHwSy)

303 This post by Matt Walsh fits right in:

http://themattwalshblog.com/2013/12/22/i-cant-explain-why-we-shouldnt-murder-disabled-children/

Gist: "Good God, people! There are some things that are JUST WRONG - PERIOD. If killing babies doesn't strike you as JUST WRONG - PERIOD, perhaps you need to check under the hood - you may be a couple quarts low on humanity."

Posted by: A_Nonny_Mouse at February 25, 2014 02:36 AM (zxKgw)

304 It sounds to me as if all you have to do to validate the decision to kill babies is simply to give them a name that is not life supporting. So, if you would name them 'trash' instead of 'baby', you could kill them with no consequences. It is sort of like calling a baby a 'fetus'. So, what shall we call the old 'people' that we want to get rid of? How about naming them 'useless consumers' or something like that. We don't want something like that around, so we can feel good about ourselves when we kill them.

Posted by: TimothyJ at February 25, 2014 03:03 AM (ep2io)

305 Fox2!-

I became aware of St Eymards writings thru an on line set of readings by an FFI Father. The readings were from St. Eymard's "Real Presence". This book should be mandatory reading for Catholics. Especially those desiring a greater love and devotion to our Eucharistic Lord. I am a "great fan" of St Eyamrd now and routinely ask him for his intercession and prayers.

Great to see another fan of St Eymard!

Posted by: havildar - major at February 25, 2014 10:41 AM (grMA8)

306 PKD wrote a short story that seems appropriate to mention.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Pre-persons

Posted by: Neo at February 25, 2014 02:14 PM (ZIKwo)

307 I want to hear an atheist explain free will. Do they believe in a free will fairy sprinkling magical free will fairy dust on people? If they don't believe in free will, why are they arguing with people who disagree with them? Because they are predetermined to be argumentative?

Posted by: Frankly at February 27, 2014 08:19 PM (Oimhs)






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