"Do We on the Right Still Trust the People?"

Jim Geraghty asks that provocative question in his Morning Jolt newsletter and concludes the answer is...not really.

It's a very interesting essay that I think gets near but not at the heart of the matter. Yes, the Democratic narrative is as he lays it out...

In the beginning, there was Bush, and Bush was bad. There was war, and it was bad; the war created the deficits, and so did Bush’s tax cuts for the rich. Because all the money went to tax cuts and wars, the government didn’t make necessary “investments” in “roads and bridges” and “green energy.” People couldn’t get health care. The oceans were rising.

Then we elected Obama, and it started getting better immediately! Okay, not everywhere, and maybe the progress and improvement was really hard to measure, but Obama inherited the worst crises of any president ever. Nobody could have generated better results than he did. The arc of history bent more toward justice, and better days are ahead, just you wait and see…

Now, you can come up with dozens of objections to those few sentences, but for the average Obama voter, that’s the gist of the state of the country from 2001 to today. It’s not all that different from your usual religious narrative, you have a fall of paradise (the election of Bush) the Devil (Bush), the messiah figure (Obama), the coming of a new kingdom and ultimate utopia. The purpose of the believer is to continue to believe in the redeeming messiah figure in the face of skepticism and doubt, because belief in him makes you one of the special and enlightened ones, and so on.

The problem for conservatives is the story starts before that. The internecine fighting we see today on the right isn't simply on how we should react to what Jim describes as "swarms of voters who believe that government – the very same government who had disappointed them and failed them time and again – will solve their problems." Our problem is we don't trust each other as conservatives. It's the "grassroots" vs. "establishment" fight were seeing and it predates "fiscal cliffs" and sequestration.

The Gingrich Revolution of 1994 eventually became the Hastert-Bush conservative malaise. Yes, the War on Terror dominated the Bush presidency but from No Child Left Behind to Medicare Part D and across the board spending hikes, many conservative felt betrayed. You can even argue it goes further back than that. The Reagan Revolutionizes saw their hard work to move the GOP to the right rewarded with...George H.W. Bush.

One reason so many on the right are unwilling to allow the governing part of the GOP/conservative coalition any room for strategic retreats is we've simply seen that when you give them an inch, they'll take a mile.

Conservatives hear how the GOP is a wholly owned subsidiary of the far, far right, we look at H.W. Bush, Dole, W. Bush, McCain, Romney (along with Lott, Frist, McConnell, Hastert and Boehner) and say, "if only!".

You can say, well they were elected and nominated by Republicans (including conservatives) and you'd be right. That's the problem. Most conservatives don't trust other conservatives or Republicans let alone moderates or liberals.

Until we find a solution to the fractured nature of the center-right coalition (beyond "we hate Obama"), the Obamabots are a secondary problem.

As for those Obama voters, yeah I trust them. I trust them to mindlessly internalize media propaganda. I trust them to continue to talk a good game ("polls show most Americans want a smaller government!") and then vote like the big government liberals they are.

That's why I think Jim's question misses the mark, it's not whether we trust them to be the people we think they can and should be but why to we continue to disbelieve them when they've been saying for longer than Obama's been around, "no, we're not those kinds of people".

Posted by: DrewM. at 09:53 AM



Comments

1 You know who I trust?

The good folks who patronize Hardcore Pawn.

Salt of the Earth.

Posted by: 98ZJUSMC Waiting for the Sun at March 06, 2013 09:55 AM (hWDNn)

2 Just 39% of voters expect the sequester spending cuts to have even a minor negative impact on them personally. Only nine percent (9%) expect a Very Negative impact. While many in Washington said the sequester would hurt the poor and vulnerable, upper-income Americans are the ones who most expect a negative impact from the budget trimming.

Overall, only 26% believe the sequester cut spending too much. Forty-two percent (42%) believe the cuts did not go far enough. Most (54%) recognize that the sequester does not really reduce government spending but merely slows the growth of future spending.

Just 25% of Americans believe the economy will be stronger in a year. That's down 11 points since January and the lowest level of optimism measured since January 2009. Forty-eight percent (48%) expect the economy will be weaker in a year.

Posted by: Rich Bastard at March 06, 2013 09:56 AM (e8kgV)

3 Seems to me that we trust other citizens not to have to have an overweening police state to control them. On the other side, citizens are suspects, and there is trust only in moar government.

Posted by: Dan Collins at March 06, 2013 09:57 AM (Rag47)

4 HW was the worst mistake Reagan ever made.


Posted by: DiogenesLamp at March 06, 2013 09:57 AM (bb5+k)

5 First they were unaged, then they weren't.

he he.

Posted by: Sen Mendeniz at March 06, 2013 09:59 AM (wR+pz)

6 I think we've reached the tipping point where the left has run the education system into the fucking ground and now the MFM has a bunch of compliant dumbasses who they can mindlessly lead into whatever dogshit flavor of the month they wish to promote. The JEF being re-elected, no matter how distasteful Romney may have been, is just not something that leads you to trust your fellow citizens.

Posted by: Captain Hate at March 06, 2013 09:59 AM (62UoP)

7 HW was the worst mistake Reagan ever made.

---

Sandie D begs to differ.

Posted by: SH at March 06, 2013 09:59 AM (gmeXX)

8 I trust the people. The problem is, the ones who can't be bothered to take care of themselves keep demanding I be robbed to take care of them.

I don't trust the fucking politicians to tell those people to pound sand.

Posted by: Ace's Anus at March 06, 2013 09:59 AM (IuKAf)

9 I do not trust the GOP establishment. I have voted for my last RINO in the hopes of stopping an "Obama". It does not work to run a namby pamby "raised to be a gentleman or lady" moderate against a Leftist loon.

Posted by: Sherry McEvil, Wily Wrepublican Wench at March 06, 2013 10:01 AM (kXoT0)

10 HW was the worst mistake Reagan ever made.




Posted by: DiogenesLamp at March 06, 2013 09:57 AM (bb5+k)


As much as I agree with that, it wasn't that much of a difference with how a lot of VP choices are made; ie to improve a weak point. What really pisses me off is that it had to be done to keep the country clubbers on board, yet we're always hearing about how keeping conservatives happy is the problem.

Posted by: Captain Hate at March 06, 2013 10:01 AM (62UoP)

11 4 HW was the worst mistake Reagan ever made.


Posted by: DiogenesLamp at March 06, 2013 09:57 AM (bb5+k)


By far.

Posted by: 98ZJUSMC Waiting for the Sun at March 06, 2013 10:01 AM (hWDNn)

12 Simply put Drew, the Republ;ican Party leaders are Lucy with the football and we are Charlie Brown. How many times do they have to screw us before we quit believing them and really get tired of the "least of the evils"?


And now, we are not even getting the least of the evils. I am one step away from abandoning the Republican Party.

Posted by: Vic at March 06, 2013 10:02 AM (53z96)

13 Did the founders really trust the people? If they did, they sure created a funny form of government. Let's go back to Goldberg's statement in the lecture posted online last night: "Federalism allows the maximum happiness of the people." (para?). This is true. Why would anyone trust anyone? The left doesn't trust us and we don't trust them. Within those camps, trust breaks down further. Even in simple partnerships, while there may be some levels of trust, there isn't absolute trust.

Posted by: SH at March 06, 2013 10:03 AM (gmeXX)

14 To go back to the mouth analogy, I know what will happen there when I am told to trust the GOP this time it won't happen again, come on, baby, that last time was an accident, I didn't mean it, it's just you're so awesome, I can't help myself.

Yeah. No.


Do I trust the GOP? Yes, I trust that the GOP on a national level as well as on several state levels will insult me to my face, pat me on the head and tell me that it's just too complicated for my little head to understand why the GOP will be acting in direct violation of my deeply held principles but don't worry they're still conservatives and then will expect my time, treasure and vote. I have decades of proof as to why I should trust that this will happen. As far as trusting that the GOP will not dork my squeakhole? Not so much.

Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Now with extra taunting. at March 06, 2013 10:03 AM (VtjlW)

15
Sandie D begs to differ.

Posted by: SH at March 06, 2013 09:59 AM (gmeXX)

You'll have to give me more than that. What are you talking about?

Posted by: DiogenesLamp at March 06, 2013 10:03 AM (bb5+k)

16 "In God we trust. All others please pay in cash".

OR

"In God we trust. All others keep your hands where I can see them".

No, I trust no one.

Posted by: rickb223 at March 06, 2013 10:03 AM (GFM2b)

17 Reposted from now dead thread (or at least on life support)

Here's something to lighten the mood. It's from the Hill, and there are
parts with which I disagree, but on the whole, things are better than
they might seem.
http://tinyurl.com/b4cpb35

You may now resume your previously scheduled doom.

Posted by: pep at March 06, 2013 10:03 AM (6TB1Z)

18 The Founding Fathers did not trust entirely the People. If they had we would be a pure democracy and not a republic.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at March 06, 2013 10:04 AM (Cm7V/)

19 The Founding Fathers did not trust entirely the People. If they had we would be a pure democracy and not a republic.


Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at March 06, 2013 10:04 AM (Cm7V/)


They did not trust the rabble at all. They feared Democracy more than Monarchy.

Posted by: DiogenesLamp at March 06, 2013 10:06 AM (bb5+k)

20 I spent a lot of money this last campaign season sending money to GOP Senate candidates and yes, twice to Romney. I wanted a GOP Senate so badly that I could taste it, but, the candidates beclowned themselves and my money made no difference against the kneepad media election machine.

I live in a state with clean and honest elections and it enrages me to watch the big Dim strongholds strangle state after state with voter fraud. I think the best thing Conservatives can do at this point is run for local elections to get on school boards and election boards. Get the indoctrination out of the schools and true the vote.

Posted by: Sherry McEvil, Wily Wrepublican Wench at March 06, 2013 10:06 AM (kXoT0)

21 You'll have to give me more than that. What are you talking about?

---

Sandra Day O'Connor. And of course to a lesser extent Kennedy.

Posted by: SH at March 06, 2013 10:07 AM (gmeXX)

22 No the founding fathers did not trust the people completely. That is why the constitution embodied federalism and separation between the people and the federal government at two levels.


And almost from the onset beginning with the second President some of them started undoing that.

Posted by: Vic at March 06, 2013 10:07 AM (53z96)

23 I don't trust the left not to be ass sucking communists any more than I can throw a cheese cake underwater, and half the country is indeed becoming fucking de-evolved retards.

Posted by: Berserker at March 06, 2013 10:08 AM (FMbng)

24 "Dork my squeakhole"



Gotta love AtC.

Posted by: BCochran1981 at March 06, 2013 10:08 AM (da5Wo)

25 Most conservatives don't trust other conservatives or Republicans let alone moderates or liberals.

Yeah no shit. I'm an originalist hardcore fiscon but a lot of other cons still despise me. Purism sucks too.

Posted by: esch at March 06, 2013 10:08 AM (7usep)

26 Obama is failing because he won't listen and doesn't care about us.

Posted by: toby928© furthers the meme at March 06, 2013 10:09 AM (QupBk)

27 Well, I can always trust Drew to tell me how the GOP is the worst thing since ebola or something, so it's nice to know there's a constant in the universe.

Posted by: Miss Marple at March 06, 2013 10:10 AM (GoIUi)

28 We've gone from the Founding Fathers to the Funding Fathers, and the consistent factor has been "the average voter."

Thank you, FDR, for pushing the idea of Free Shit for the masses.

Posted by: MrScribbler at March 06, 2013 10:10 AM (cFhY4)

29 We've gone from the Founding Fathers to the Funding Fathers

Nice.

Posted by: toby928© furthers the meme at March 06, 2013 10:10 AM (QupBk)

30 What was the deficit before Reagan? After?

Posted by: TT at March 06, 2013 10:11 AM (uWzcG)

31 Well, no snow yet and probably just going to be rain by quitting time. We had a bet going as to who the first employee to whine about getting an early release would be, and I won the bet! Gotta love those gubmint 'workers'. (I of course don't count, hitting F5 at AoSHQ all morning is very hard work)

Posted by: mugiwara at March 06, 2013 10:11 AM (W7ffl)

32 The JEF being re-elected, no matter how distasteful Romney may have
been, is just not something that leads you to trust your fellow
citizens.


Agree absolutely. However, we are conservatives, and by nature we don not trust. We assume that humanity is bent and always will be. Therefore, we need systems in place that control our own worst impulses, without becoming dictatorial. That's nothing new, and is why the FFs designed our government as they did. I see nothing new in that.

Posted by: pep at March 06, 2013 10:11 AM (6TB1Z)

33 At this point in time with regards to the GOP, a Conservative is the moral equivalent of a battered wife supporting a shiftless drunk who beats her senseless time after time. When counseled to leave the brute, all the broken thing can do is bleat, "He really loves me. He does not mean to hurt me. He is always really sorry afterwards. He holds me and strokes my hair and tells me that if I just did not force him to do these things, our life would be perfect. Besides where would I go?"

Posted by: Sherry McEvil, Wily Wrepublican Wench at March 06, 2013 10:12 AM (kXoT0)

34 Obama is failing because he won't listen and doesn't care about us.


Obama is failing because he is incompetent.

Posted by: rickb223 at March 06, 2013 10:12 AM (GFM2b)

35 Hell no I don't trust anyone. Or, rather I trust people to act in untrustworthy ways once given power.

Thats why we're conservatives in the first place. You know who else didn't trust people? The Founders. Thats why they created a limited government, seperation of powers, Bill of Rights, habeas corpus, etc.
That crap only makes any sense if you just don't trust anyone, and I for one like it that way.

Posted by: Jollyroger at March 06, 2013 10:13 AM (t06LC)

36 Re: HW as Reagan VP:
--
What really pisses me off is that it had to be done to keep the country
clubbers on board, yet we're always hearing about how keeping
conservatives happy is the problem. -March 06, 2013 10:01 AM (62UoP)

----

There was the John Anderson factor. He still got 6.6% of the vote.

Posted by: RioBravo at March 06, 2013 10:13 AM (eEfYn)

37 "A republic, if you can keep it." -Ben Franklin

A principled and informed electorate being necessary to the preservation of the Republic, the Enemy need only undermine principle and disinform the people.

"Also, let them find out they can vote themselves money!" -Alex d'T.

Mission accomplished.

Posted by: a mindful webworker at March 06, 2013 10:13 AM (yFFC0)

38 I do not trust this Drew guy. They say he has been seen out in public with RINOs.

Posted by: SpongeBob Saget at March 06, 2013 10:14 AM (epxV4)

39 @27
Miss Marple-
please read the link at my #17. All is not black.

Posted by: pep at March 06, 2013 10:14 AM (6TB1Z)

40 27 Well, I can always trust Drew to tell me how the GOP is the worst thing since ebola or something, so it's nice to know there's a constant in the universe.
Posted by: Miss Marple at March 06, 2013 10:10 AM (GoIUi)

I'm just glad we can trust him for that.

Posted by: Jollyroger at March 06, 2013 10:14 AM (t06LC)

41 I do not trust this Drew guy. They say he has been seen out in public with RINOs.


Burn him! Burn the witch!

Posted by: rickb223 at March 06, 2013 10:15 AM (GFM2b)

42 The last election when the right was not only united, but played on a truly national scale was in '94. The GOP made gains everywhere, heck, they even ended up winning the California assembly and even won Los Angeles County!

After 40 years out of power, the GOP was given a chance to actually change things. With Clinton as President, that was blunted and simply reducing the growth of government to below the growth in revenue was achievement enough to keep their bonefides.

But when the GOP got the Senate, the House, and the Presidency, the GOP and the right had a chance to make a difference, and thus prove that conservatism works and that the GOP could be trusted. They blew it. They blew it big time.

It was their last chance to save the country, and so what did they do? They expanded government, increased regulations, and blossomed the national debt.

The DOOM is already baked in the cake.

Posted by: The Political Hat at March 06, 2013 10:15 AM (Vk2pI)

43 No, the "heart of the matter" is that - after 2012 - I don't trust the general population anymore.

The scales are off my eyes.

We are a nation of mal-educated citizens with little working knoweldge of civic virtue, economics, capitalism, freedom, liberty, law.

Until we fix that, trusting ourselves is a secondary issue. (Then again, there is a point to saying we have to fix ourselves to be effective at fixing the society at large.)

Posted by: Tonic Dog at March 06, 2013 10:15 AM (X/+QT)

44 But Geraghty is right, at least in some measure. Here is an anecdote. I was engaged in an argument with friend that I had reconnected with after many years. I knew he was liberal, but I didn't know the depth of his 'progressivism' at the time. We were debating what Obamacare would mean to the average worker. My arguments that employers would drop employees and stop providing healthcare altogether, or if forced to provide coverage, they would pass the costs on to consumers and employees. His reply was "no they won't, they can't, and so on." So I said, "what if you're wrong?" And he said," Oh I get it, you're here to spreaddoubt." Conversation over. The point is, for a fair number of people, it is a new religion. As a second point, not all are as hardcore as this guy, but there is a feeling that "yeah, maybe if we all get behind the idea, it will work" I understand that is somewhat different from the hard core folks, but Americans are really team players. Listen to the 'Greatest Generation' they all use the collective pronoun 'we' in some form or another. I think that is why, when this administration talks about obstructionists, it resonates. Anyway, I am not sure that there is an easy solution.

Posted by: J. Locke at March 06, 2013 10:16 AM (9RGT+)

45 Obama is failing because he is incompetent.

Posted by: rickb223 at March 06, 2013 10:12 AM (GFM2b)
Obama is failing because he is an incompetent, inept, shiftless, lazy, mendacious boob with delusions of grandeur and rampant malignant narcissism. Only our kneepad media could take a guy who wears Mom jeans, rides a girl's bike, throws like a wuss, and sings like a frog into Mr. Cool.

Posted by: Sherry McEvil, Wily Wrepublican Wench at March 06, 2013 10:16 AM (kXoT0)

46 Geraghty asks do we still trust the people. My response is when have we ever trusted the people? This goes back to the founding. The Constitution was set up precisely because humans cannot be trusted, particularly those in power.

Now having said that, I do agree with Winston Churchill, eventually America gets it right. We will never have the perfect conservative utopia I and others dream of. And we are certainly at a point where the pendulum has swung far to the left. I do have faith that things will start swinging back in the other direction. Yes, itt will be a painful process, and no I really don't know how or when it will happen.

I for one would not be surprised to see a third party emerge, which would basically be a break-up of the base into a new party. Nor am I all that fearful of this. Its happened before in America, and I see no reason to assume it can't happen again or assume that if it did it would be catostrophic.

So no I don't trust the people, but I have faith in the Constitution and the republic. Perhaps I am just a fool. But an optimistic one.

Posted by: SH at March 06, 2013 10:17 AM (gmeXX)

47 I don't trust them politically, but I trust in the next few decades they will develop enough technology that politics as we know it will be more or less irrelevant.

Posted by: philhartmonic at March 06, 2013 10:17 AM (u0ZiS)

48 I quit

Posted by: Andrew at March 06, 2013 10:17 AM (HS3dy)

49 I trust my 1911.
Trust my AR, as long as the 1911 isn't too far away.

Posted by: Rule #2 at March 06, 2013 10:17 AM (CypDC)

50 But the DOW JONES! OMG the AWESOME!!~

Posted by: MSM at March 06, 2013 10:17 AM (cv5Iw)

51 I passed by the Post Office in South Pasadena, I was surprised the President has not ordered the US Flag at 1/2 mast in honor of his fellow dictator Hugo..

Posted by: clemenza at March 06, 2013 10:17 AM (m3kwT)

52 I trust that a good taxidermist could return Hugo Chavez to his former glory.

Posted by: Fritz at March 06, 2013 10:18 AM (UzPAd)

53 I would like to propose: No Republican can ever make fun of the French ever again.

Posted by: nip at March 06, 2013 10:18 AM (11Tdq)

54 What was the deficit before Reagan? After?

Federal Deficit by Year:

1971 23.033B
1972 23.373B
1973 14.908B
1974 6.135B
1975 53.242B
1976 73.732B
1977 53.659B
1978 59.185B
1979 40.726B
1980 73.830B
1981 78.968B
1982 127.977B
1983 207.802B
1984 185.367B
1985 212.308B
1986 221.227B
1987 149.730B
1988 155.178B
1989 152.639B
1990 221.036B

Posted by: toby928© furthers the meme at March 06, 2013 10:18 AM (QupBk)

55 Obama is failing because he won't listen and doesn't care about us.

Obama is failing because he is designed to fail - and to bring America down with him. He isn't a President, he's a custodian of decline. He is installing like-minded custodians in all areas of our innermost workings. See them for who they are. John Kerry as Sec of State?

A deliberate policy of failure. Never lose sight of that.

Posted by: Tim Conway at March 06, 2013 10:18 AM (AjnrJ)

56 @ 50 do not get woody or wet , the fall is coming, get off the Nitrus Oxide..

Posted by: clemenza at March 06, 2013 10:19 AM (m3kwT)

57 Let us not forget, our forefathers NEVER envisioned an electorate that did not own property, wasn't male and wasn't white.


I STILL trust all those people.

Posted by: Billy Bob, pseudo intellectual at March 06, 2013 10:19 AM (wR+pz)

58
13.2% – black unemployment rate, Nov. 2012 (93-7, Obama).
10.0% – Hispanic unemployment rate, Nov. 2012 (71-28, Obama).
6.8% – white unemployment rate, Nov. 2012 (59-39, Romney).

To a large extent that sums it up, doesn't it?

Two other points are worth noting:

- Hamilton was right and Jefferson was wrong. Period. End of story. And now we're going to pay the piper, in more ways than one.

- There's a staggering and ghastly irony in seeing a blog post like this from that author and in this particular medium, with its horrible demographics. For as bad as the robot left is one can make a colorable argument that the worse demographic is the irrational right. Which is more cognitively dissonant? Mindlessly voting for liberal Democrats to keep one's self dependent and thus in poverty? Or mindlessly not voting based upon pet peeves and thereby casting de facto votes for liberal Democrats and thus wrecking the country for one and all?

Posted by: Tsar Nicholas II at March 06, 2013 10:19 AM (r2PLg)

59 The Bill of Rights was specifically, directly created precisely because of the lack of trust in people and government.

Posted by: annoyed at March 06, 2013 10:19 AM (uEm7J)

60 Obama is failing because he won't listen and doesn't care about us.



Who says he's failing?

Posted by: BCochran1981 at March 06, 2013 10:20 AM (da5Wo)

61 Expounding on that founders subject, yes, they didn't trust "the mobs" and separated them by two levels. However, that was offset at the federal level by only allowing the federal government a limited number of powers. The rest of the control was supposed to remain with the States who were originally completely autonomous and also at a closer level to the voters and theoretically more responsive.



That part of the Constitution was completely shredded and no longer exists at all in any form. Indeed, Roberts says they can force you to buy medical insurance of what ever nature they think is good for you in DC.

Posted by: Vic at March 06, 2013 10:20 AM (53z96)

62 Obama is failing because he won't listen and doesn't care about us. Obama is failing because he is incompetent.

----

No, one arguably Obama isn't failing, he is advancing his ideology in ways that haven't been seen since LBJ. So I'm not sure Obama is failing.

The country is failing because it is using a bad and flawed ideology designed to fail and proven to fail.

----------

Founding Fathers to Funding Fathers

----------

Agree, this is a great line.

Posted by: SH at March 06, 2013 10:20 AM (gmeXX)

63 50
But the DOW JONES! OMG the AWESOME!!~


WSJ had a buzz kill on that yesterday.


Inflation adjusted, the current Dow is less than it was in 2000.



Posted by: Billy Bob, pseudo intellectual at March 06, 2013 10:20 AM (wR+pz)

64 OT: Sen. Alexander's Tennessee home burglarized

http://j.mp/ZbDzIa

Posted by: The Political Hat at March 06, 2013 10:21 AM (Vk2pI)

65 @ 58 no need for cliff notes for that , well done comrade..

Posted by: clemenza at March 06, 2013 10:21 AM (m3kwT)

66 OMB to agencies: No employee bonuses

The Office of Management and Budget issued a memo Wednesday broadly outlining how agencies should prepare for the $85 billion in budget cuts that will begin March 1 unless Congress and the White House come to a last-minute agreement averting or delaying sequestration. Until further notice, that memo said, agencies should hand out discretionary cash awards to employees only if they are legally required to.

Agencies should also make sure when they hire new employees or approve spending on training, conferences and travel that those new costs are absolutely necessary.

Posted by: Danny Werfel at March 06, 2013 10:22 AM (e8kgV)

67 #39 Thanks. I see that people ignore it, so that is pretty dependable, too.

Well, I am going to go do something productive. I will check in on a thread later this afternoon.

Posted by: Miss Marple at March 06, 2013 10:22 AM (GoIUi)

68 I can't even trust myself, so how can I possibly trust anyone else?

Posted by: @PurpAv at March 06, 2013 10:22 AM (/gHaE)

69 I spent a lot of money this last campaign season
sending money to GOP Senate candidates and yes, twice to Romney. I
wanted a GOP Senate so badly that I could taste it, but, the candidates
beclowned themselves and my money made no difference against the kneepad
media election machine.



Posted by: Sherry McEvil, Wily Wrepublican Wench at March 06, 2013 10:06 AM (kXoT0)

A point I always make. *WE* have to pay money to get ads onto Television. The media GIVES Democrats the equivalent or better advertising for free.

Today on ABC News I saw Brian Ross trying to debunk the Dominican Prostitute Scandal. He alleges the whole thing is made up by "GOP Operatives."

When is the last time you heard any media folk alluding to "Democrat Operatives"?
Liberal Media Delenda est!

Posted by: DiogenesLamp at March 06, 2013 10:22 AM (bb5+k)

70 I wonder, if we compared & contrasted those in power before AND after the french revolution, if the left would get the hint.

Posted by: rickb223 at March 06, 2013 10:22 AM (GFM2b)

71 I STILL trust all those people.


Posted by: Billy Bob, pseudo intellectual at March 06, 2013 10:19 AM (wR+pz)


Don't get me started on how only property owners should vote on issues having to do with the funding of public schools. Or the topic of how public schools are funded. Or why there are public schools.

Posted by: Captain Hate at March 06, 2013 10:23 AM (62UoP)

72 Obama is failing because....

Posted by: Sherry McEvil, Wily Wrepublican Wench at March 06, 2013 10:16 AM


I would love to have someone explain HOW Choom Boy is "failing," because I wanna believe it.

Did he not get re-elected? Have his nominees for various posts gone down in flames? Did Congress say "fuck you and your little healthcare scam, too?" Has he been restrained from jetting off (in OUR airplane) for a jazzy weekend fartin' around on the links? Has Moo-Chelle been forced to stay how and do the laundry?

Sadly, WE are the ones "failing" right now. As far as I can see, President Historic First© is stylin' and profilin', without a care in the world.

Posted by: MrScribbler at March 06, 2013 10:23 AM (cFhY4)

73 Posted by: toby928© furthers the meme at March 06, 2013 10:18 AM (QupBk)

Yup...

Posted by: Tip O'Neill at March 06, 2013 10:23 AM (Vk2pI)

74 I trust the voters in the same way that I trust children.

Voters: If you let us eat our dessert first, we PROMISE we'll eat our vegetables!
(later)
Voters: Ooo, we're too FULL to eat any vegetables!

Posted by: BeckoningChasm at March 06, 2013 10:23 AM (xjpRj)

75 Trust the people? Unfortunately, too many of 'the people' have failed their civic duty to be good, lawful, productive citizens.

Get back to the day when duty, honor, and character mean something, not just for the rich, and the powerful, but for everyone, and we'll get our country back.

Posted by: Skandia Recluse at March 06, 2013 10:23 AM (vntm6)

76 Alexander, TN (R) is a fucking weasel dickhead.


How do I really feel?

Posted by: Billy Bob, pseudo intellectual at March 06, 2013 10:23 AM (wR+pz)

77 approve spending on training, conferences and travel that those new costs are absolutely necessary.

Unnecessary training and conferences used to be the norm?

Huston, I think we've got a problem...

Posted by: @PurpAv at March 06, 2013 10:23 AM (/gHaE)

78 They blew it. They blew it big time.
It was their last chance to save the country


No, it wasn't. Yes, they blew it, but nothing is forever in politics. The same people we don't trust also have minuscule attention spans, and are easily diverted. There are neoNazis in Germany and Stalinists in Russia because many, if not most, people can't think beyond their immediate experience. A people's collective memory is erased within 30-40 years, thus explaining the FDR-Carter-Obama cycle. The pendulum will return, or civilization will collapse. I'm hoping it's the pendulum.

Posted by: pep at March 06, 2013 10:24 AM (6TB1Z)

79 18 The Founding Fathers did not trust entirely the People. If they had we would be a pure democracy and not a republic.
Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at March 06, 2013 10:04 AM (Cm7V/)


^^^THIS.

The "people" are the ones who believe that they have a right to my wealth and property.

Posted by: rickl at March 06, 2013 10:24 AM (zoehZ)

80 Who says he's failing?
Posted by: BCochran1981 at March 06, 2013 10:20 AM (da5Wo)



That article in the Hill that contains more bullshit than my paper on Chuck Norris. OMFG! Taxes only went up a little! We get to have another fiscal cliff "crisis"! Yay, rebranding! Yeah, those aren't actual legislative wins and the immigration stuff made me start muttering about going something something.

Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Now with extra taunting. at March 06, 2013 10:24 AM (VtjlW)

81 I wonder, if we compared & contrasted those in power before AND after the french revolution, if the left would get the hint.

Posted by: rickb223 at March 06, 2013 10:22 AM (GFM2b)


A good read in this regard is "The Old Regime and the Revolution" by Alexis de Tocqueville

Posted by: The Political Hat at March 06, 2013 10:24 AM (Vk2pI)

82 No, one arguably Obama isn't failing, he is advancing his ideology in ways that haven't been seen since LBJ. So I'm not sure Obama is failing.

SH, I thought the doesn't-listen-doesn't-care meme was your invention. Am I saying it wrong?

Posted by: toby928© furthers the meme at March 06, 2013 10:24 AM (QupBk)

83 Pure democracy = "mob rule"

Posted by: @PurpAv at March 06, 2013 10:25 AM (/gHaE)

84
Sandra Day O'Connor. And of course to a lesser extent Kennedy.

Posted by: SH at March 06, 2013 10:07 AM (gmeXX)

I thought you were referring to Sandy Duncan.


Yeah, I don't think much of these two Reagan Choices, but these mistakes are nothing compared to backing George Bush. That "Kinder, Gentler" crap just grew the government more. Breaking his tax pledge gave us Bill Clinton. Much disaster was the result of the Clinton Presidency.


Posted by: DiogenesLamp at March 06, 2013 10:26 AM (bb5+k)

85 The pendulum will return, or civilization will collapse. I'm hoping it's the pendulum.

We're in a pit, that pendulum ain't innocuous dood.

Posted by: @PurpAv at March 06, 2013 10:26 AM (/gHaE)

86 I mostly despise my fellow man. Mostly.

Posted by: Whatev at March 06, 2013 10:27 AM (A7Wh1)

87 When the world doesn't end over the sequester, Obama will be in full retreat.

2014 ads will simply feature him being a scaremonger, and pin the tail on him.

GOP finally is doing something right.

Posted by: HoboJerky, profit of DOOM! at March 06, 2013 10:27 AM (FsUAO)

88 Federal government took off today because of the terrible storm!

Yeah man, look at it come down.


http://www.trafficland.com/city/WAS/index.html

Posted by: Billy Bob, pseudo intellectual at March 06, 2013 10:28 AM (wR+pz)

89 Sadly, WE are the ones "failing" right now. As far
as I can see, President Historic First© is stylin' and profilin',
without a care in the world.


Posted by: MrScribbler at March 06, 2013 10:23 AM (cFhY4)

Technically, Obama is a failure, not that the nightly news will ever give anyone a clue. He has presided over a depression with record unemployment accompanied by unreported and ignored scandal after scandal all the while committing one tasteless excess after another using public money. His administration let an Ambassador be murdered and his body used for sport. But, thanks to the bigotry of racial upscoring, he and Mooch will be treated like mythic figures in the history books.

Posted by: Sherry McEvil, Wily Wrepublican Wench at March 06, 2013 10:28 AM (kXoT0)

90 The O'Conner nomination was AA writ large in a campaign promise. The Kennedy nomination was a direct result of the communists crucifying Bork with the aid of 6 flaming RINOs who are well representative of today's Republican leadership.

Posted by: Vic at March 06, 2013 10:28 AM (53z96)

91 Toby - I'm sure I go all over the place. I would agree he doesn't listen doesn't care. I am of the camp, that Obama is about one thing - advancing his ideology. But I'm not sure is failing as a result of that. Obama and the left seem to be doing quite well. However, because he is advancing this flawed ideology, the country is failing.

Posted by: SH at March 06, 2013 10:29 AM (gmeXX)

92 2014 ads will simply feature him being a scaremonger, and pin the tail on him. GOP finally is doing something right.

Posted by: HoboJerky, profit of DOOM! at March 06, 2013 10:27 AM


Democrat ads will feature Boner's support of everything Choom Boy wants to do.


Posted by: MrScribbler at March 06, 2013 10:29 AM (cFhY4)

93 What was the deficit before Reagan? After?

Posted by: TT at March 06, 2013 10:11 AM (uWzcG)

Here is this old saw again. We GOT something for Reagan's expenses. We Got the collapse of the Soviet Union and the avoidance of massive destruction. Do you know what we got for all those Democrat Expenditures?

Massive debt and corruption. It is the Job of the Federal government to Defend the nation. It is NOT the Job of the Federal government to provide jobs or welfare for citizens.

Posted by: DiogenesLamp at March 06, 2013 10:29 AM (bb5+k)

94 2014 ads will simply feature him being a scaremonger, and pin the tail on him.

I'll believe it when I see it. In 2012 the Republicans could have filled the airwaves with hours of footage of Barry saying one thing, then saying the opposite, the yet something else, branding him a liar and a failure without saying a word.

They did bumpkis.

Posted by: toby928© furthers the meme at March 06, 2013 10:29 AM (QupBk)

95 Suffrage succotash

Posted by: eleven at March 06, 2013 10:30 AM (KXm42)

96 TFG is not failing. He is "fundamently transforming America." In his mind he needs to destroy America in order to save it. And by saving it he plans on implementing a Soviet/socialist style of government with the people no better off than some third world shithole. Because it's worked so well before.

Posted by: ExSnipe at March 06, 2013 10:31 AM (PBm/l)

97 The O'Conner nomination was AA writ large in a campaign promise. The Kennedy nomination was a direct result of the communists crucifying Bork with the aid of 6 flaming RINOs who are well representative of today's Republican leadership.

----

Doesn't mean they weren't mistakes.

Posted by: SH at March 06, 2013 10:31 AM (gmeXX)

98 That article in the Hill that contains more bullshit
than my paper on Chuck Norris. OMFG! Taxes only went up a little!
We get to have another fiscal cliff "crisis"! Yay, rebranding!
Yeah, those aren't actual legislative wins and the immigration stuff
made me start muttering about going something something.

Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Now with extra taunting. at March 06, 2013 10:24 AM (VtjlW)


Deep breaths, in and out.

Here, do what I do. Peruse imdb.com for trailers of new movies.

After Earth 2 http://www.imdb.com/video/imdb/vi3750536985

Posted by: BCochran1981 at March 06, 2013 10:31 AM (da5Wo)

99 I do not trust the majority of American voters to put the best interests of the United States uppermost in their minds when they enter the voting booth.

Posted by: Jones in CO at March 06, 2013 10:32 AM (8sCoq)

100 February solar data shows the Sun to still be slumping.

“The Solar Cycle 24 Prediction Panel has reached a consensus. The panel has decided that the next solar cycle (Cycle 24) will be below average in intensity, with a maximum sunspot number of 90. Given the date of solar minimum and the predicted maximum intensity, solar maximum is now expected to occur in May 2013. Note, this is not a unanimous decision, but a supermajority of the panel did agree.”

Aztecs suggest that we sacrifice virgin Democrats, but there aren't any (according to Sandra Fluke).

Posted by: Danny Werfel at March 06, 2013 10:32 AM (e8kgV)

101 Yeah, I don't think much of these two Reagan
Choices, but these mistakes are nothing compared to backing George Bush.
That "Kinder, Gentler" crap just grew the government more. Breaking his
tax pledge gave us Bill Clinton. Much disaster was the result of the
Clinton Presidency.




Posted by: DiogenesLamp at March 06, 2013 10:26 AM (bb5+k)


Plus Poppy Bush, when he wasn't barfing in the lap of the Japanese prime minister, gave us that shithead Souter who, after Kelo, should be trapped in that shanty eyesore he inhabits while it burns down around him.

Posted by: Captain Hate at March 06, 2013 10:32 AM (62UoP)

102
Reagan/debt argument, and what we 'got' in return.

Exactly - that debt list needs to be listed next to other indices as well: unemployment, GNP, Soviet containment, etc.

Posted by: annoyed at March 06, 2013 10:32 AM (uEm7J)

103 Here, do what I do. Peruse imdb.com for trailers of new movies.

After Earth 2 http://www.imdb.com/video/imdb/vi3750536985
Posted by: BCochran1981 at March 06, 2013 10:31 AM (da5Wo)


Ohhh, I didn't know the second trailer for that was out. Thanks.


comingsoon.net also provides high level trailer crack

Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Now with extra taunting. at March 06, 2013 10:33 AM (VtjlW)

104 Pure democracy = "mob rule"

Posted by: @PurpAv at March 06, 2013 10:25 AM (/gHaE)


A little mood music:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=owJJQgt_jgs

Posted by: The Political Hat at March 06, 2013 10:33 AM (Vk2pI)

105 Obama is failing because he is an incompetent,
inept, shiftless, lazy, mendacious boob with delusions of grandeur and
rampant malignant narcissism. Only our kneepad media could take a guy
who wears Mom jeans, rides a girl's bike, throws like a wuss, and sings
like a frog into Mr. Cool.

Posted by: Sherry McEvil, Wily Wrepublican Wench at March 06, 2013 10:16 AM (kXoT0)

The Media is the key to power in this nation. They set the agenda, and they lead the foolish to think the way they do.

Elections are always decided by the middle percentage of fools. The Media steers this group.




Posted by: DiogenesLamp at March 06, 2013 10:33 AM (bb5+k)

106 Both parties have their share of problem children and disparate cats that are hard to herd at times. If Romney had won in 2012, the Democrats would have had the same sort of massive navel-gazing going on, calls to push out the old liberal lions like Pelosi and Biden, and some progressives yelling that Obama blew it because he wasn't progressive enough. (In fact, they did have just this sort of brawl after the 2004 election which they all thought they were going to win.) They would have been castigating Axelrod and Plouffe for the lightweight issue-free bullshit campaign Obama ran, for his horrible debate performances, etc. etc.

Winning always papers over a lot of fissures.

Posted by: rockmom at March 06, 2013 10:33 AM (aBlZ1)

107 If you give people articulate conservative fighters, they will win. And winning solves a lot of this.

But we can't stop at just one guy or one election. We need to take that winning momentum and broom the lefties out of leadership in the state and national committees.

Posted by: Truman North, last of the famous international playboys at March 06, 2013 10:34 AM (cQBh3)

108 I think the question Drew (and by extension Geraghty) should be asking is if we on the right ever trusted people.

Nope. Never did.

Posted by: Jollyroger at March 06, 2013 10:34 AM (t06LC)

109 It is better to give than to receive. Or better to be the Dorker than the Dorkee.

Posted by: Buzzsaw at March 06, 2013 10:34 AM (81UWZ)

110 Aztecs suggest that we sacrifice virgin Democrats, but there aren't any (according to Sandra Fluke).



Then we must sacrifice 3 regular dems to 1 dem virgin as pennance.

Posted by: rickb223 at March 06, 2013 10:34 AM (GFM2b)

111 try imdb trailer for upcoming flic, funded by Texas billionaire: Alone Yet Not Alone.

Posted by: annoyed at March 06, 2013 10:35 AM (uEm7J)

112 The Media is the key to power in this nation. They set the agenda, and they lead the foolish to think the way they do.


It's also foolish to think we can make inroads when our "leaders" accept the premises established by the media.

Posted by: Truman North, last of the famous international playboys at March 06, 2013 10:35 AM (cQBh3)

113 Winning always papers over a lot of fissures.

----

Very true.

Posted by: SH at March 06, 2013 10:35 AM (gmeXX)

114 1990 221.036B



Posted by: toby928© furthers the meme at March 06, 2013 10:18 AM (QupBk)
---That seemed so BIG in 1990. What a difference a generation makes.

Posted by: RioBravo at March 06, 2013 10:35 AM (eEfYn)

115 Eight years of Reagan budgets put us $1.4T in the hole, so about what Barry has averaged every year.

Posted by: toby928© furthers the meme at March 06, 2013 10:35 AM (QupBk)

116 Finding a democrat virgin over the age of 12 is going to be tough.


You going to count lesbos?

Posted by: Billy Bob, pseudo intellectual at March 06, 2013 10:36 AM (wR+pz)

117 I don't trust "the people" when I'm driving down the highway, why should I trust them in the voting booth?

Posted by: BurtTC at March 06, 2013 10:36 AM (TOk1P)

118 Things were too good under Bush. Spoiled millennials graduating with a choice of 10 jobs. Things so good the dumb shits had enough spare time to come up with a "carbon" phobia, and start attacking the economic foundation on all fronts. I could go on but the gist of it is, the boom years of Bush were too good.

Posted by: Whatev at March 06, 2013 10:36 AM (A7Wh1)

119 This is kind of the nature of the beast, isn't it? Conservatives trust God (usually) and then themselves. We don't expect other people to trust us about their lives, we expect them to look to God and to themselves and their family for their own business. It kind of has never surprised me that, with few exceptions, the Rs who are even willing to be in charge, let alone have the personality to get LIVs to trust them, are going to be less conservative than the base. That's not even accounting for the insidious "compromise" that happens when they actually go to Washington.

What we can do about this, aside from cloning Reagan, I don't know. But it's something that's always bugged me about this trust thing---of course we don't trust either "the people" or the establishment. That's kind of why we're conservatives.

Posted by: Jenny tries too hard and also hates her phone at March 06, 2013 10:37 AM (dkh08)

120 I trust Michelle Obama to clean her plate at every meal.

Posted by: Fritz at March 06, 2013 10:37 AM (UzPAd)

121 115
Eight years of Reagan budgets put us $1.4T in the hole, so about what Barry has averaged every year.


You forget, most of that was to rearm after Carter had disarmed us, not for entitlements.


How did that work out? The USSR collapsed.

I'd say that was a good investment.

Posted by: Billy Bob, pseudo intellectual at March 06, 2013 10:38 AM (wR+pz)

122 (In fact, they did have just this sort of brawl
after the 2004 election which they all thought they were going to win.)
They would have been castigating Axelrod and Plouffe for the lightweight
issue-free bullshit campaign Obama ran, for his horrible debate
performances, etc. etc.



Winning always papers over a lot of fissures.



Posted by: rockmom at March 06, 2013 10:33 AM (aBlZ1)


The donks never fucking change, though; they just look for a new way of packaging their commie garbage. They found what they were looking for in the JEF after that 2004 speech at the convention; imo that's been the whole basis of his ascent and it has been revealed, for people that are paying attention, as a big fucking lie.

Posted by: Captain Hate at March 06, 2013 10:38 AM (62UoP)

123 If anyone had asked me at the time, I'd have paid $2T to collapse the Soviet Union.

Posted by: toby928© furthers the meme at March 06, 2013 10:38 AM (QupBk)

124
Two things.

Thing 1 - I can't trust the left because they don't even think I am human.

Thing 2 - the main goal of the establishment is to maintain the status quo.

In other words, no hope and no change.

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at March 06, 2013 10:38 AM (p/cQy)

125 I jokingly picked up my friend's passport (which has some sort of electronic tracking something in it) and said "Fuck you, Obama" into it, then said the drone should appear any minute.

An Obama-loving friend of hers burst into tears, yelled, "It's not his fault!" and fled the room.

Apropos of nothing, I guess, except Obama supporters truly do have a major emotional investment in him. I think with the secularization of society, the basic human desire to worship a God has been transferred to him.

I have never seen this kind of thing before, and it worries me.

Posted by: Ferb Fletcher at March 06, 2013 10:39 AM (Q8Wa9)

126 Ohhh, I didn't know the second trailer for that was out. Thanks.





comingsoon.net also provides high level trailer crack

Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Now with extra taunting. at March 06, 2013 10:33 AM (VtjlW)




Something mindless and fun. Cause the good Lord knows we need something mindless and fun on occasion.



http://www.imdb.com/video/imdb/vi2857346841

Posted by: BCochran1981 at March 06, 2013 10:39 AM (da5Wo)

127 Anyone see ANY of the current crop of leading contenders for the GOP 2016 as a solution here?

Especially the fat fuck from NJ?

Or the pudgy fuck from FL?

Posted by: RoyalOil at March 06, 2013 10:40 AM (VjL9S)

128 On a more pessimistic note, right after the election I did have the thought that the Reagan years were just a brief hiccup in America's long slide toward dependency and ruin that began a century ago with Roosevelt and Wilson. There are fewer and fewer of us fighting the slide, and to the rest who have become resigned to it we sound crazier and crazier. No amount of better candidates, better technology, better messaging, etc. will change that. The only thing that will is an economy that gets sohorrible by the end of Obama's term that the people do blame him and his progressive policies, and another Reagan emerges to yank us back from the brink. But as has been said, it's not clear that Reagan would have been elected by an electorate that looked like the 2012 electorate.

We have bred, miseducated, and admitted too many people who think lots of government is just fine and dandy. They do not and never will understand the principle of killing the goose that laid the golden eggs, until the goose is good and dead and we're all out of eggs.

Posted by: rockmom at March 06, 2013 10:40 AM (aBlZ1)

129 Look at these people:

Vice President of the United States
Joe Biden

Department of State
John Kerry

Department of the Treasury
Jack Lew

Department of Defense
Chuck Hagel

Department of Justice
Eric Holder

Department of the Interior
Kenneth L. Salazar

Department of Agriculture
Thomas Vilsack

Department of Commerce
Acting Secretary Rebecca Blank

Department of Labor
Acting Secretary Seth Harris

Department of Health and Human Services
Kathleen Sebelius

Department of Housing and Urban Development
Shaun L.S. Donovan

Department of Transportation
Ray LaHood

Department of Energy
Steven Chu

Department of Education
Arne Duncan

Department of Veterans Affairs
Eric "Black Beret" Shinseki

Department of Homeland Security
Janet A. Napolitano

...and that's just the crockery in the Cabinet. In a sane America, are these the people you want to "have your back"? "In your foxhole"?

I'll say it again - they are custodians of decline, and they mean to reforge America into... something else.

Posted by: The Larch at March 06, 2013 10:40 AM (AjnrJ)

130 Joe Wilson and now Bill O'Reilly.

Can't believe I'm saying this but O'Reilly has the answer.

He snapped and called Colmes on his lying. Colmes says "Are you calling me a liar?"

"Yes, because you're lying."

Until people are willing to risk being called racist, or risk being banned, or risk being attacked physically by calling Obama, and Reid and Pelosi and Holder and Carney "Liar", I will not trust them.

Obama, I'm not saying that you lie because you're black. All black people don't lie. You do. Black people should be ashamed of you because you lie, then when called on it, you say "you're calling me a liar because I'm black."

Hell, that's like saying "You're saying I have body odor because I'm Amish."

Whoops. Bad example.

Comity in the legislature was the code when they were all carrying swords.

These empty scrotums in Congress couldn't break the skin on a fucking peach, let alone Pat Leahy's liver-spotted pate.

LET'S FUCKING RUMBLE!!!

Posted by: Opus An Arcus at March 06, 2013 10:40 AM (cfNCa)

131
122 -

There was a tipping point somewhere in there. I remember thinking when Gore was nominated "is this idiot really going to run on government giveaways being the answer for everything?" And truth be told, I was afraid it was going to work. Well, here we are.....

Posted by: BurtTC at March 06, 2013 10:41 AM (TOk1P)

132
They did not trust the rabble at all. They feared Democracy more than Monarchy.

----
I confirm their judgement

Posted by: HISTORY at March 06, 2013 10:41 AM (SO2Q8)

133 Plus Poppy Bush, when he wasn't barfing in the lap
of the Japanese prime minister....


Posted by: Captain Hate at March 06, 2013 10:32 AM


Look, name ONE president in the entire history of the country who didn't screw the pooch in some major way during his term. Ya can't. Not Washington, certainly not Reagan.

Doesn't mean they were all bad; it's human nature.

But we have a right to expect anyone elected to lead the country to do better than batting 0.000, which is Choom Boy's percentage.

By comparison, ever other president -- including several loathsome turds who, IMO, should have their names excised from the history books -- was a friggin' saint.

Posted by: MrScribbler at March 06, 2013 10:42 AM (cFhY4)

134 Plus Poppy Bush, when he wasn't barfing in the lap
of the Japanese prime minister, gave us that shithead Souter who, after
Kelo, should be trapped in that shanty eyesore he inhabits while it
burns down around him.


Posted by: Captain Hate at March 06, 2013 10:32 AM (62UoP)

HW was a horrible President, and the biggest problem with him is how badly he damaged the Republican Brand. Yeah, Souter sucks. I wish they had been successful at taking his house away from him.


Posted by: DiogenesLamp at March 06, 2013 10:43 AM (bb5+k)

135 What we can do about this, aside from cloning Reagan, I don't know. But it's something that's always bugged me about this trust thing---of course we don't trust either "the people" or the establishment. That's kind of why we're conservatives

----

Exactly. Those on the left and right experience the same things - longiness, feelings of guilt/sin and a cause, need for redemption. In general, the right finds its answers through Judea-Christian teachings, the left finds those answers in liberalism with Western Civilization playing the role of the Devil. The reason why they are so tireless is because they never find the answer to their longiness because the only answer is God.

Anyway, that is a gross generalization and simplification of things, but it makes sense to me.

Posted by: SH at March 06, 2013 10:43 AM (gmeXX)

136 I think the question is wrong.

Conservatives trust the people as individuals to govern their individual lives.

We have never trusted the mob as a governing force for all.

Posted by: Nicholas Kronos at March 06, 2013 10:44 AM (m2IdD)

137 I have never seen this kind of thing before, and it worries me.
Posted by: Ferb Fletcher at March 06, 2013 10:39 AM (Q8Wa9)



Oh, I have though it usually involves more military uniforms with really spectacular epaulets.

Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Now with extra taunting. at March 06, 2013 10:44 AM (VtjlW)

138 This is a mighty glum group this morning.


I trust a lot of people. People do what they decide is in their best interest. You can trust them on that.

If you give them shit and they don't have to work, for some that is in their best interest.

We can not confuse the issues.

Do I trust a democrat to be honest? Not often, it is not in his best interest to explain how his programs will work, even if he understands how they work.

Do I trust a Republican to be honest? More often than a Democrat, but that is a mighty low bar.

Low intellect voters have a lot in common, mostly that they can not envision the long term. It's only today they see.


Posted by: Billy Bob, pseudo intellectual at March 06, 2013 10:44 AM (wR+pz)

139 Look, name ONE president in the entire history of the country who didn't screw the pooch in some major way during his term. Ya can't. Not Washington, certainly not Reagan.

Posted by: MrScribbler at March 06, 2013 10:42 AM (cFhY4)


Didn't have much of a chance...

Posted by: William Henry Harrison at March 06, 2013 10:45 AM (Vk2pI)

140 @138

Along that line, we need to encourage long term thinking among the low intellect voters.

How is the question.

Posted by: Billy Bob, pseudo intellectual at March 06, 2013 10:45 AM (wR+pz)

141 Idiocracy was on the other night.

I had a hard time laughing at any of it after the last 5 years . . . .

Do I trust the people?

Posted by: RoyalOil at March 06, 2013 10:46 AM (VjL9S)

142 >>>LET'S FUCKING RUMBLE!!!





Posted by: Opus An Arcus at March 06, 2013 10:40 AM (cfNCa)

You're forgetting something. These people are cowards. It took a fucking fossil like Bernstein to show them the way, and now they're trying to sodomize the man for his transgression.

Posted by: Fritz at March 06, 2013 10:46 AM (UzPAd)

143 Ah, the doesn't-listen-doesn't-care meme was from JC.

All you two-letter guys look alike.

Posted by: toby928© furthers the meme at March 06, 2013 10:46 AM (QupBk)

144
136 -

Exactly. As Agent K said (I'm paraphrasing, I think) "a person is smart, but people are stupid."

Posted by: BurtTC at March 06, 2013 10:46 AM (TOk1P)

145 Democrat ads will feature Boner's support of everything Choom Boy wants to do.
Posted by: MrScribbler at March 06, 2013 10:29 AM (cFhY4)

like? Not a Boner fan, but simply guessing that Boner wants to cave doesn't make a tv ad. At best they can just call Boner an obstructionist and right-wing zealot.

Posted by: HoboJerky, profit of DOOM! at March 06, 2013 10:47 AM (FsUAO)

146 Look, name ONE president in the entire history of the country who didn't screw the pooch in some major way during his term.

Coolidge?

Posted by: toby928© furthers the meme at March 06, 2013 10:47 AM (QupBk)

147
Eight years of Reagan budgets put us $1.4T in the hole, so about what Barry has averaged every year.

Posted by: toby928© furthers the meme at March 06, 2013 10:35 AM (QupBk)


I do not even accept THAT premise. Reagan's expenditures were reasonable and necessary for the time. The Tip O'Neal expenditures were not. The excessive and unreasonable portion of those deficits rests on the heads of the Democrats, not Reagan.

Posted by: DiogenesLamp at March 06, 2013 10:47 AM (bb5+k)

148 An Obama-loving friend of hers burst into tears, yelled, "It's not his fault!" and fled the room.


THEN WHO'S FAULT IS IT?

Posted by: rickb223 at March 06, 2013 10:48 AM (GFM2b)

149 Reagan wasn't that great. Kind of a dumb ass actually. Instituting a seizure law, or fruits of crime bullshit. What an idiot. It took two hours for the crooked local cops to start seizing whatever they could. Guilty or not.

Posted by: Whatev at March 06, 2013 10:48 AM (A7Wh1)

150 Obama can't blame Bush when the sequester DOESN'T make everything fall apart.

When he can't Blame Bush, he's fucked.

Posted by: HoboJerky, profit of DOOM! at March 06, 2013 10:48 AM (FsUAO)

151
139 -

Me nuther.

Posted by: James Garfield at March 06, 2013 10:48 AM (TOk1P)

152 So with the first minor victory (the public's failure to freak out over sequestration) under their belts, our trustworthy GOP leadership is set for a rushed vote on a Continuing Resolution today in the House that will again raise the debt ceiling and allow for increased spending with no budget that will take us to the end of the fiscal year, September 2013.

Posted by: jeannebodine at March 06, 2013 10:48 AM (x0dlI)

153 The biggest tactical mistake Bush made was to ignore his chance to put a GOP'er into the Veep slot in the second term whohad a shot towin the presidency. Running with incumbancy on his side would have done wonders even for someone as lame as Senator Gang-of-Sixteen. Dumb, dumb, dumb not to do it.

Posted by: MTF at March 06, 2013 10:49 AM (B5y+v)

154 Trusting an electorate that is, on the whole, not sufficiently well-educated to govern itself is stupid.

Anyone who feels betrayed by such an electorate is an idiot and, most likely, still sends their kids to public school.

Posted by: goy at March 06, 2013 10:49 AM (QsFws)

155 An Obama-loving friend of hers burst into tears

Would that they burst into flames.

Posted by: toby928© furthers the meme at March 06, 2013 10:49 AM (QupBk)

156 Oh, I have though it usually involves more military uniforms with really spectacular epaulets.

Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Now with extra taunting. at March 06, 2013 10:44 AM (VtjlW)


Better than avg chance of some super spiffy hats too.

Posted by: BCochran1981 at March 06, 2013 10:49 AM (da5Wo)

157 Reagan brought down communism and laid the groundwork for one of the largest economic expansions in history. I really don't have a lot to quibble over with him. I simply wish he had moved the court more to the right.

Posted by: SH at March 06, 2013 10:49 AM (gmeXX)

158 >Look, name ONE president in the entire history of the country who didn't screw the pooch in some major way during his term.


George Washington

Posted by: Jones in CO at March 06, 2013 10:50 AM (8sCoq)

159 >>>I do not trust the majority of American voters to put the best interests of the United States uppermost in their minds when they enter the voting booth.

Nominate leaders who will represent those interests then.

Posted by: Bigby's Chinese Finger Traps at March 06, 2013 10:50 AM (3ZtZW)

160 I don't trust "the people". Democracy delenda est.

Posted by: Al at March 06, 2013 10:50 AM (V70Uh)

161 Do I trust the people?

Q: Why do we have so many dumb-ass politicians ?

A: Because we have so many dumb-ass VOTERS!

Posted by: I'm the honey Badger, BITCH! at March 06, 2013 10:51 AM (U3CzV)

162 The biggest tactical mistake Bush made was to ignore his chance to put a GOP'er into the Veep slot in the second term whohad a shot towin the presidency. Running with incumbancy on his side would have done wonders even for someone as lame as Senator Gang-of-Sixteen. Dumb, dumb, dumb not to do it.

--

I don't know if I agree with this or not, but it is a good question and one I suspect future presidential candidates and candidates will think long over. I would love to hear someone expound on it.

Posted by: SH at March 06, 2013 10:51 AM (gmeXX)

163 146 Look, name ONE president in the entire history of the country who didn't screw the pooch in some major way during his term. Coolidge?
Posted by: toby928© furthers the meme at March 06, 2013 10:47 AM (QupBk)

I'm saying William Henry Harrison.

Posted by: Jollyroger at March 06, 2013 10:52 AM (t06LC)

164
You forget, most of that was to rearm after Carter had disarmed us, not for entitlements.


How did that work out? The USSR collapsed.

I'd say that was a good investment.


Posted by: Billy Bob, pseudo intellectual at March 06, 2013 10:38 AM (wR+pz)







In an episode in one of PJ O'Rourke's books he's on a US Navy ship watching the squiddies launch a bunch of Tomahawk missiles, and he admiringly quips "THIS is how you waste government money!"

The ONE thing that gov't does fairly well is to destroy things and kill assholes. Unfortunately, the SCOAMF and his minions consider conservatives and American culture to be the assholes worthy of destruction.

Posted by: IllTemperedCur at March 06, 2013 10:52 AM (TIIx5)

165 So the answer to Geraghty's question is: Still?

Posted by: toby928© furthers the meme at March 06, 2013 10:52 AM (QupBk)

166 A stupid and corrupt electorate: something to thank the teacher's unions for creating.

Posted by: Al at March 06, 2013 10:52 AM (V70Uh)

167 Checked my "political" bookmarks just now. 26 of them, collected over a number of years. I visit 2 now - Ace and Victor Davis Hanson. The rest are mere artifacts.
Hanson I go to for clear vision and commentary. I come here for whatever reason, I don't know.
"People", generally, are despicable swine. Everyone wants to get fed. The only people that can be trusted, and only provisionally, are the ones that answer to a higher moral authority than their appetites.
These people are in short supply these days.
I don't know why I bothered posting this, it's not reassuring or optimistic. The basest people are running the country, by the consent of the governed. God help us.

Posted by: tubal at March 06, 2013 10:53 AM (BoE3Z)

168 I don't trust "the people". Democracy delenda est.

That's ummmmm....."interesting". What would you replace it with?

Posted by: Sean Bannion at March 06, 2013 10:53 AM (+q0tv)

169 Obama is failing because he won't listen and doesn't care about us.





Obama is failing because he is incompetent.

Posted by: rickb223 at March 06, 2013 10:12 AM (GFM2b)



Obama isn't failing. He's succeeding at destroying the country

Posted by: TheQuietMan at March 06, 2013 10:54 AM (1Jaio)

170 Restore the Theocracy of 1787.

Posted by: toby928© furthers the meme at March 06, 2013 10:55 AM (QupBk)

171 When the Founders wrote the Constitution, the entire population of the states was about equal to Chicago today.

Can you imagine what our Congress would look like if we'd have kept that same ratio of representatives to population?

Can you imagine if Chicago had 26 Senators?

Two thoughts if that was the case today:
1) There's no way any law would get passed as there'd be way too many votes needed.
2) There's no way there'd be just two political parties; we'd have a dozen or so regional parties and 4 or 5 super-regional parties.

Posted by: RoyalOil at March 06, 2013 10:56 AM (VjL9S)

172 I come here for whatever reason, I don't know.

Laughing all the way to the EmSMODdening?

Posted by: Lurking Canuck at March 06, 2013 10:56 AM (BrQrN)

173
Look, name ONE president in the entire history of the country who didn't screw the pooch in some major way during his term. Ya can't. Not Washington, certainly not Reagan.

---

William Henry Harrison

Posted by: HISTORY at March 06, 2013 10:56 AM (SO2Q8)

174 Restore the Theocracy of 1787.

I might be able to get behind that!

Posted by: Sean Bannion at March 06, 2013 10:56 AM (+q0tv)

175 Better than avg chance of some super spiffy hats too.
Posted by: BCochran1981 at March 06, 2013 10:49 AM (da5Wo)


Not to mention personal protection squads made up of ninja babes.

Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Now with extra taunting. at March 06, 2013 10:57 AM (VtjlW)

176 ... but are they real people ? .....

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Posted by: Max HeadRoom at March 06, 2013 10:58 AM (e8kgV)

177 The problem on the right is that we have nobody that's capable of clearly and with conviction stating the principles that they believe in and sticking by them and defending them. What we have are legions of high paid DC advisers and consultants who say "Oh no, don't say what you believe, pander, pander, pander". When your whole messaging strategy is to pander, not only doesn't it work with the wishy washy folks you're trying to woo, it offends and turns off your base. It doesn't work, It's NEVER worked, yet every time these so called experts pull out that chicken, Repubs drop their pants and start fuckin'. What inspires people is conviction. Speak simply and with conviction about what we believe and why, and the people will follow.

Example: "Why do you oppose affirmative action?"

Answer "I oppose affirmative action because I'm not a racist. I find the implication that Black Americans are somehow less capable than other Americans to be repugnant."..and then go from there.

Guess what? That's what I believe. The key is not to be afraid of saying it. "OH MY GOD YOU'LL OFFEND PEOPLE!!" wail the "experts". Fuck 'em. There's nothing offensive in what I said there, and I refuse to cede that high ground to the enemy. THIS is what I believe, THIS is why, and HERE is where we can go if we work together is how you win elections. Look at TFG, it's all bullshit, but that's what he does. It can be done in reverse, and more powerfully because we win on facts. Just think about the last time someone pandered to you. Did that inspire you? Make you want more of that person? Of course not. It never does.

Posted by: Weirddave at March 06, 2013 10:58 AM (aH+zP)

178 >>>I do not trust the majority of American voters to put the
best interests of the United States uppermost in their minds when they
enter the voting booth.



Nominate leaders who will represent those interests then.



Every election for President represents a choice. At the very least, one of those candidates will be the lesser of two evils, if they are dispassionately examined by an informed and thinking voter. Last November, it should have been clear that Romney was a better choice than Obama. It should have been clear, if voters made their decision based on which candidate was better suited to be President... which man was 'better' for America.

But this did not happen.

Posted by: Jones in CO at March 06, 2013 10:58 AM (8sCoq)

179
166 -

It's hard to blame schools when the vast majority of the people who willfully remain ignorant are long past their school years.

I honestly believe there has been a change. 20 years ago Dems were saying "Republicans are evil for wanting to starve kids and kill black people," but nobody really believed that. Today they do. Long into their adulthoods, you have people on the left who believe they are saving the country from YOU and your cunning plan to..... whatever it is they think you want to do. That's not terribly clear. But whatever it is, they're against it. Because they're good. And you are not.

Posted by: BurtTC at March 06, 2013 10:58 AM (TOk1P)

180 158 George Washington

Funny thing.

That guy grew and smoked weed.

Posted by: akula51 at March 06, 2013 10:58 AM (hNXHo)

181 We are a nation of mal-educated citizens with little working knoweldge of civic virtue, economics, capitalism, freedom, liberty, law.

We are a Hardcore Pawn nation. Those people are our "fellow citizens." And there is absolutely nothing the GOP can do - even if they had the energy - to reach them. That is the poisoned fruit of the universal franchise.

Posted by: Mary Poppins' Practically Perfect Piercing at March 06, 2013 10:58 AM (zF6Iw)

182 Gotta hand it to Boehner. He's saying that the Capitol Bldg was ready for sequester when they move some expenses around and they are giving tours to this day.

Meanwhile, the White House had to choose between funding self tours and the diesel powered butt cheek spreader for Michelle's evacuations, and, well, I guess we know which way that one went.

*flush*

Posted by: Opus An Arcus at March 06, 2013 10:59 AM (cfNCa)

183 I certainly don't trust people.

For the most part, the vast majority of people are too fucking stupid to make decisions on the most basic items, let alone complex policy. It's a tribute to my unwavering optimism that I still believe the U.S. can remain a republic, considering how many idiots are allowed a vote.

As to the rest of the world, I'm convinced that it would be far better if most countries reverted to monachies. The wealthiest people in the world should take on the responsiblity of taking over countries and running them in competition with other billionaire kings and queens in an ego fueled search for perfection.

Posted by: jwest at March 06, 2013 10:59 AM (u2a4R)

184 @173

That's what I said. Kinda hard for him to screw things up. So, best president ever?

Posted by: Jollyroger at March 06, 2013 10:59 AM (t06LC)

185 Not to mention personal protection squads made up of ninja babes.

Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Now with extra taunting. at March 06, 2013 10:57 AM (VtjlW)


Well I'm sold.

Posted by: BCochran1981 at March 06, 2013 10:59 AM (da5Wo)

186 Not to mention personal protection squads made up of ninja babes.

Should I have the Logistics Directorate order their uniforms, my Queen?

I would need a couple of samples models to check sizing and whatnot.

Posted by: Sean Bannion at March 06, 2013 11:00 AM (+q0tv)

187 Ir we had kept the same ratio of House members to population that they had when the Constitution was ratified yes we would have thousands. But....



They would be a LOT closer to the people that elect them with a damn good chance that the people in their district know them personally. AND....


It would be damn near impossible for the special interest groups to buy their votes and lobby them for crony corruption. AND


When they screwed up and did something their voters did not like it would be one hell of a lot easier to get them out of office.

Posted by: Vic at March 06, 2013 11:01 AM (53z96)

188
Not to mention personal protection squads made up of ninja babes.

Are these a gift for the 'Pleasure Guard'?

Posted by: garrett at March 06, 2013 11:01 AM (KCoLk)

189 As long as the GOP continues to view the world through the Civilzation-Barbarism construct instead of the Oppressed-Oppressors construct they will lose more in every election.

It's really not about left vs right or results of policy when it comes to voting. It's about world-view.

The whole free birth control nonsense was again about "oppression" for the womyn crowd. Conservatives can't believe that people believe in this "oppression" nonsense, but the longer we ignore the fact that women and minorities (even conservative Asians!) feel "oppressed" we'll never win their vote in substantial numbers.

Posted by: Closing time at March 06, 2013 11:01 AM (/0DF2)

190 2) There's no way there'd be just two political parties; we'd have a dozen or so regional parties and 4 or 5 super-regional parties.

Wait - this is a *bad* thing?

*Only* for the GOP and DNC, I'd guess.

Posted by: akula51 at March 06, 2013 11:02 AM (hNXHo)

191 In the time of the Founding Fathers:

Shay's Rebellion
The Whiskey Rebellion
The Alien and Sedition Acts
The Election of 1800

Afterwards: The Know Nothing Party, the Civil War, Jim Crow, Woodrow Wilson, Japanese internment camps, yada yada yada.

We're Americans - we thrive in chaos and distrust because we are still a free people.

Posted by: mrp at March 06, 2013 11:02 AM (HjPtV)

192 I'm not scrolling back to see who said it but, I agree with the sentiment that I trust the people to manage their own affairs, but I don't trust them to manage mine.




And thinking about it, Washington really fucked up with the Hamiltonian taxes and the Whiskey Rebellion.

Posted by: toby928© furthers the meme at March 06, 2013 11:02 AM (QupBk)

193 Awww. St. Trayvon's gf caught in a lie.

http://tinyurl.com/a66xlm6

Posted by: rickb223 at March 06, 2013 11:03 AM (GFM2b)

194
HW wasn't the greatest by a long shot, but his term in office was devastated by Alan Greenspan's economic policies.

Posted by: Ed Anger at March 06, 2013 11:03 AM (tOkJB)

195 Global Warming is still piling up on our sidewalk.

Posted by: Village Idiot's Apprentice at March 06, 2013 11:04 AM (Tgggp)

196 That guy grew and smoked weed.

Posted by: akula51 at March 06, 2013 10:58 AM (hNXHo)


I'll grant you the growing part, if you mean "hemp." As for the smoking part? Link please.

Posted by: DiogenesLamp at March 06, 2013 11:04 AM (bb5+k)

197 And thinking about it, Washington really fucked up with the Hamiltonian taxes and the Whiskey Rebellion.

Posted by: toby928© furthers the meme at March 06, 2013 11:02 AM (QupBk)


The Whiskey Rebellion was the first instance of crony corruption after the Constitution was ratified. The people on the "rebelling" side had a very legitimate beef.

Posted by: Vic at March 06, 2013 11:05 AM (53z96)

198 Would you trust a good friend of William Ayers? Van Jones?


Posted by: The Larch at March 06, 2013 11:05 AM (AjnrJ)

199 "18 The Founding Fathers did not trust entirely the People. If they had we would be a pure democracy and not a republic."

pure democracies are the express train to tyranny. the whole democracy is 2 wolves and sheep voting on what's for dinner. where a republic is 2 wolves and a well armed sheep contesting the vote.

Posted by: vote Lord Humungus 2016 at March 06, 2013 11:06 AM (HEa5q)

200 I'm saying William Henry Harrison.

Posted by: Jollyroger at March 06, 2013 10:52 AM


Yeah, I guess so. Heck, he may actually have been doing us a favor when he didn't take his NyQuil....

You'd think by now I would know the Horde has people who can and always will come up with a smart-ass response for any occasion.

It's one of the reasons I come here, in fact.

Posted by: MrScribbler at March 06, 2013 11:06 AM (cFhY4)

201 Of course, conservatives aren't going to start crying about "oppression" because they just don't believe it (because it's a retarded construct). But make no mistake, the electorate believes in this garbage and they will vote for it in increasing numbers with every subsequent election, especially as voting becomes even easier and registered voters become ever more likely voters.

Posted by: Closing time at March 06, 2013 11:06 AM (/0DF2)

202
192 -

Washington was painfully naive, and unaware of the snakes operating in his own government (including Jefferson). In some ways Washington was what they accused Reagan of being... an aging figurehead, with little understanding of the complexity of the events of the day.

Posted by: BurtTC at March 06, 2013 11:07 AM (TOk1P)

203 akula51;


Have you any idea what the term "Naval Stores" means when applied to the 1700s and 1800s?

Posted by: Vic at March 06, 2013 11:07 AM (53z96)

204 So long as the money people and the insiders live in the DC bubble and the base lives out here in flyover country, there is going to be distrust and it seems to be getting deeper. People in the GOP have been talking past each other since the end of the Reagan era. The base doesn't see the compromises the insiders have to make and the insiders don't see what effect their policies have on the base. You can't have a party with such a profound disconnect.

Posted by: joncelli, dodging the Zombies of Sequester at March 06, 2013 11:07 AM (RD7QR)

205 >>>Last November, it should have been clear that Romney was a better choice than Obama. It should have been clear, if voters made their decision based on which candidate was better suited to be President... which man was 'better' for America.

I'll agree with you and add that I voted for Romney but.... its all just theory at this point. Theory that it should have been obvious, and theory that he'd have been better. Hell, it was theoretical that he was electable during the Primaries and reality stubbed that out, too.

Against that I think we can put the fact of GOP malfeasance and misgovernment. Look, I'm from the NE and left the Dems when they left me - now its the GOP doing the same. I've been through it before, took the leap of faith and held on for dear life. Its been a good ride and I'm for it if they're for me - but they aren't. Dems said the same shit about "where else you gonna go?" and so what. I'm looking to be represented, as is my right as an American.I will not reward this shit and do not care if its 'throwing away my vote' since the GOP looked like that for a number of years too.

Posted by: Bigby's Chinese Finger Traps at March 06, 2013 11:08 AM (3ZtZW)

206
I trust the people to manage their own affairs
---
We don't even need to do that. People fuck up their affairs with alarming regularity. Back in the day it took so much effort to not fuck up your own affairs that you had little time to busybody everyone else.
We've become victims of success.


Posted by: Buzzsaw90 at March 06, 2013 11:08 AM (SO2Q8)

207 It should have been clear, if voters made their decision based on which candidate was better suited to be President... which man was 'better' for America.

But this did not happen.
Posted by: Jones in CO at March 06, 2013 10:58 AM (8sCoq)



Voters do not care about what is better for America, voters care about what it is better for themselves. (Obviously, I'm talking broad sweeps here)

I was reading an article today by someone arguing for a return to practical conservatism when any possibility that I would take the arguments contained therein seriously ended when I reached the bit about how it is not possible to dismantle entitlement programs. Math sure as hell believes otherwise. I believe this is the actual divide between the purists and the Establishment. The purists look at entitlements, look at our debt, look at Math and point out that reality is a stone cold bitch that does not care about your compassion and the hammer will fall and hey, let's do something about that now before it's horribly painful. The Establishment appears to believe that the road down which the can is kicked goes ever on. Since that is the case, there is no need to make hard choices and it's not in the best interests of being elected to tell people otherwise. In fact, telling them do is ridiculous scare mongering and make the party look nuts. (Again, I'm making very broad generalizations)

I firmly believe that Math is going to win this race. I also firmly believe that the majority of people care most about what is in their best interest right now now now now. The conflict between those two is not going to end well.


Now, if you'll excuse me, I have some popcorn futures to buy.

Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Now with extra taunting. at March 06, 2013 11:09 AM (VtjlW)

208
Of course, conservatives aren't going to start crying about "oppression"
because they just don't believe it (because it's a retarded construct).
But make no mistake, the electorate believes in this garbage and they
will vote for it in increasing numbers with every subsequent election,
especially as voting becomes even easier and registered voters become
ever more likely voters.

Posted by: Closing time at March 06, 2013 11:06 AM (/0DF2)

And this is why we ought to help the system collapse. We aren't going to be able to repair it from within the existing framework. There is just too much damage already done.

We have become Idiocracy.


Posted by: DiogenesLamp at March 06, 2013 11:09 AM (bb5+k)

209 "The Whiskey Rebellion was the first instance of
crony corruption after the Constitution was ratified. The people on the
"rebelling" side had a very legitimate beef. "

Posted by: Vic at March 06, 2013 11:05 AM (53z96)

Do you see this as an antecedent of the War of Southern Rebellion?

They may have had a legitimate beef, but they resorted to violence to express that belief. And was crony corruption? The country owed money that had been used to finance the war. How else was it to be paid back, if not through taxes?

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at March 06, 2013 11:11 AM (GsoHv)

210 Anybody catch GEN Odierno's comments on gun control? It's disheartening but not unsurprising. Seems a lot of these dudes get used to being able to tell people what they can or can't do. Link in the nic. I bet this gent runs for some sort of office with a (D) next to his name.

Posted by: fastfreefall at March 06, 2013 11:11 AM (zUvAE)

211 I live in a state with clean and honest elections and it enrages me to watch the big Dim strongholds strangle state after state with voter fraud. I think the best thing Conservatives can do at this point is run for local elections to get on school boards and election boards. Get the indoctrination out of the schools and true the vote.
Posted by: Sherry McEvil, Wily Wrepublican Wench at March 06, 2013 10:06 AM (kXoT0)

The cheating in 2012 was real, widespread,and largely unreported. In some instances the Democrats were brazen about it, barely bothering to conceal it and--in some instances--boasting about it. What they don't seem to realize is that delegitimizing the voting process and stifling redress forces their opposition to seek politicalsolutions by means other than the ballot. For some reason, I don't think that occurs to them.

President Obama is reportedly desperate to flip the House in 2014. If that's the case, we'll see the Chicago Way played out on a grand scale. The thing to look for, I think, is the reaction of various GOP leaders such as Rubio, Jindal, Paul, et al to widespread cheating, voter intimidation and suppression. View it as a litmus test for suitability in 2016.

Posted by: troyriser at March 06, 2013 11:12 AM (vtiE6)

212 We've become victims of success.


Human thermodynamics -


Conservation of happiness.

Posted by: eleven at March 06, 2013 11:12 AM (KXm42)

213 The "internecine" warfare is the result of several factors. All of which, not a single one of us can escape blame from.

I'll start with several of the most prominent;

1- We've traded a principled approach for an issues oriented approach.
Not only have party members pushed their favorite issues and made them a sine qua non of their support, but they've flamed others who don't agree with them. Broad, intellectually developed principles gather wide support when explained appropriately. But their interpretation can not be too narrow or too broad. Yes there is a happy meaningful medium.

2- (really part of 1) We've traded demographics for principled approach. The "we need to appeal to Hispanics therefore we need to trade principle" conflation. No we don't. With the right principles we bring all demographics to the table. This is a favorite of people in power and inflexible party stalwarts who no longer lead courageously because they are too concerned with their personal longevity.

3- We've forgotten how to meaningfully compromise. Parties and governments are not built on a singular set of ideals installed overnight. Look at the Democrat Party since FDR on the successful gradualism approach. IF you want "your guy" or nothing or want "your issue to win uncompromisingly" ever time- get familiar with the outside view. In every negotiation you get what is achievable, not what is desired.

Posted by: Marcus at March 06, 2013 11:12 AM (GGCsk)

214 "Washington was painfully naive, and unaware of the snakes operating in his own government (including Jefferson)."

Whaaaaa? George Washington was the least naive president in our country's history.

Posted by: mrp at March 06, 2013 11:12 AM (HjPtV)

215 We don't even need to do that. People fuck up their
affairs with alarming regularity. Back in the day it took so much effort
to not fuck up your own affairs that you had little time to busybody
everyone else.
We've become victims of success.




Posted by: Buzzsaw90 at March 06, 2013 11:08 AM (SO2Q

Prosperity has made us foolish. Some of that prosperity is the result of money borrowed from the future to splurge in the present. Also foolish.

Posted by: DiogenesLamp at March 06, 2013 11:12 AM (bb5+k)

216 The leaders we have in Congress, believe it or not, think they're doing pretty well. Here's a Boehner partisan explaining that they are "cleaning the floor with Obama".

http://tinyurl.com/b4cpb35

Those dimwits really do think they are doing well, mostly because they win little victories every now and then that limit in some very minor way the damage the President and Democrats are doing. Truly unbelievable,

Posted by: MTF at March 06, 2013 11:13 AM (B5y+v)

217 I was reading an article today by someone arguing for a return to
practical conservatism when any possibility that I would take the
arguments contained therein seriously ended when I reached the bit about
how it is not possible to dismantle entitlement programs. Math sure
as hell believes otherwise.

Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Now with extra taunting. at March 06, 2013 11:09 AM (VtjlW)




Racist.


Posted by: BCochran1981 at March 06, 2013 11:13 AM (da5Wo)

218 I firmly believe that Math is going to win this race. I also firmly believe that the majority of people care most about what is in their best interest right now now now now. The conflict between those two is not going to end well.

Now, if you'll excuse me, I have some popcorn futures to buy.


Agreed. Now, if you'll excuse me, I have some ammo to buy.

Posted by: rickb223 at March 06, 2013 11:14 AM (GFM2b)

219
Voters do not care about what is better for America, voters care about what it is better for themselves. (Obviously, I'm talking broad sweeps here)

---
Which is actually quite rational. Which is a reason for having a government of limited powers. Fewer oportunities for beter-for-me worse-for-you.

Posted by: Buzzsaw90 at March 06, 2013 11:14 AM (SO2Q8)

220 Racist.


Posted by: BCochran1981 at March 06, 2013 11:13 AM (da5Wo)




Yaaay! I got to ticky that ticky box off early today. Thanks. Cupcake? You'll enjoy it, I took it from Bannion's share.

Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Now with extra taunting. at March 06, 2013 11:14 AM (VtjlW)

221
I firmly believe that Math is going to win this
race. I also firmly believe that the majority of people care most about
what is in their best interest right now now now now. The conflict
between those two is not going to end well.





Now, if you'll excuse me, I have some popcorn futures to buy.



Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Now with extra taunting. at March 06, 2013 11:09 AM (VtjlW)

I concur. I see the math as predicting an economic collapse followed by a social collapse. We are not the America of 1930. If given austerity, These people will throw a hissy fit before dying.


Posted by: DiogenesLamp at March 06, 2013 11:15 AM (bb5+k)

222 I'll tell you something that hasn't worked out well for the country: knocking off the conservative Democrats and replacing them with Republicans, just because we could. It left both parties with leadership that was way to the left of the country. In a sense, Conservatives were better off having the Democrats run things than the Republicans.

Posted by: toby928© furthers the meme at March 06, 2013 11:15 AM (QupBk)

223 Obama - The greatest story NEVER told

Posted by: The Jackhole at March 06, 2013 11:15 AM (nTgAI)

224 Agreed. Now, if you'll excuse me, I have some ammo to buy.
Posted by: rickb223 at March 06, 2013 11:14 AM (GFM2b)

You found some ?

Posted by: The Jackhole at March 06, 2013 11:16 AM (nTgAI)

225 218
I firmly believe that Math is going to win this race. I also firmly
believe that the majority of people care most about what is in their
best interest right now now now now. The conflict between those two is
not going to end well.



Now, if you'll excuse me, I have some popcorn futures to buy.





Agreed. Now, if you'll excuse me, I have some ammo to buy.

Posted by: rickb223 at March 06, 2013 11:14 AM (GFM2b)

Yes, but what comes after math? Reform or people clamoring for somebody to take care of them? If the latter, the tyrants win.

Posted by: joncelli, dodging the Zombies of Sequester at March 06, 2013 11:16 AM (RD7QR)

226 Look, name ONE president in the entire history of the country who didn't screw the pooch in some major way during his term.

Chester Alan Arthur.

Posted by: Mary Poppins' Practically Perfect Piercing at March 06, 2013 11:16 AM (zF6Iw)

227 Yaaay! I got to ticky that ticky box off early today. Thanks. Cupcake? You'll enjoy it, I took it from Bannion's share.

Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Now with extra taunting. at March 06, 2013 11:14 AM (VtjlW)


Oooohhhhhh. Thank you.

Now the only question is do I eat it in front of him or do I put it on display and taunt him with it?

Posted by: BCochran1981 at March 06, 2013 11:16 AM (da5Wo)

228 Posted by: Buzzsaw90 at March 06, 2013 11:08 AM (SO2Q

Yup.

We have fat poor people who own automobiles and flat-screen TVs and cell phones.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at March 06, 2013 11:16 AM (GsoHv)

229 130

Obama, I'm not saying that you lie because you're black. All black
people don't lie. You do. Black people should be ashamed of you
because you lie, then when called on it, you say "you're calling me a
liar because I'm black."


This is the kind of logic we need out of those who call themselves "conservative" in the media haze...

Posted by: Tony253 at March 06, 2013 11:16 AM (PryWG)

230 "...taunt him with it?"

Posted by: BCochran1981 at March 06, 2013 11:16 AM (da5Wo)

This is AOSHQ.

What the fuck else would you do?

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at March 06, 2013 11:17 AM (GsoHv)

231 No, I don't believe it is a failure of "the people". It is a "failure in which every one of us owns a part.

That people have demurred to the likes of Obama and gratuitous, overreaching government is our fault. For too long we've taken government and parties for granted and let those in power run away from principle because they belonged to our party. Only with GW Bush did we really start to deride a departure from principle. Meanwhile for years, we all kept electing the same people to office in spite of the fact many were slowly destroying the party.

Now everybody wants to deride Boehner and Co. as the cause of our ills.

Sure. Right. Look in the mirror and start to change things. Don't be a carnival barker- be a builder of things.

Posted by: Marcus at March 06, 2013 11:18 AM (GGCsk)

232 “I have a soft spot for Joe Biden,” he [Roger Ailes] said. “I like him. But he’s dumb as an ashtray.”

Posted by: PeeWee Herman at March 06, 2013 11:19 AM (e8kgV)

233 Yes, but what comes after math? Reform or people clamoring for somebody to take care of them? If the latter, the tyrants win.
Posted by: joncelli, dodging the Zombies of Sequester at March 06, 2013 11:16 AM (RD7QR)



Oh tyranny, I absolutely believe tyranny. Right now the only true race I see as remaining is do we get there before Europe does. Part of me is all USA USA USA about us getting there first. Let's be honest, when Americans set out to do something, we go balls to the wall to get it done fast.

Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Now with extra taunting. at March 06, 2013 11:20 AM (VtjlW)

234 At least an ashtray has a useful purpose.

Posted by: Infidel at March 06, 2013 11:21 AM (O/fK8)

235 What was the article that was here the other day? Using the enforcement of laws to intimidate people into inaction?



Man Faces 30 Days In Jail For Laughing



http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/it_laughable_sEXykGNgabFDCNlGvdXuBK

Posted by: BCochran1981 at March 06, 2013 11:21 AM (da5Wo)

236 >I firmly believe that Math is going to win this

race. I also firmly believe that the majority of people care most about

what is in their best interest right now now now now. The conflict

between those two is not going to end well.
<

Unless you lead people with your heart and wisdom, you are doomed to the status quo.

This can't go on forever and the game in Washington is one where rivals play us off against each other until one of them is left holding the bag.

It's an existential game of musical chairs and either way all of us lose.

Posted by: Marcus at March 06, 2013 11:21 AM (GGCsk)

237
1. Assume the worst about people
2. Design government accordingly
3. PROFIT

Posted by: Founders at March 06, 2013 11:22 AM (SO2Q8)

238 This is AOSHQ.

What the fuck else would you do?


Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at March 06, 2013 11:17 AM (GsoHv)


It's a cupcake. From the Queen. Who you know doesn't skimp on the pastries.

I'd eat the fuck out of it and then beg for more.

Posted by: BCochran1981 at March 06, 2013 11:22 AM (da5Wo)

239 Have you any idea what the term "Naval Stores" means when applied to the 1700s and 1800s?

Certainly not the rum...lol. And yeah, I've seen a couple programs on how they filled the little gaps in between planks in hulls of wooden ships.

I think what we view looking back through the portal known as the internet is a very sanitized view of what was going on back then. All sorts of folks have had their hands on "history" textbooks through the years.

We bitch about the liberal intelligencia rewriting history all the time when it suits us - Stalin will be a saint (like Chavez) in a few generations on the trajectory we're on if folks keep reimagining history to suit their needs (and then pumping those "facts" into the heads of our youth). Well, I know the fans of Temperence also had their chance to rewrite and fuck with our history at various points along the way.

Until the time machine arrives, no link on the internet is going to prove much of anything. The archives of both great men have writings that suggest Jefferson and Washington traded seedlings and seeds. There is anecdotal evidence in several places that Washington used THC to alleviate the pain in his mouth caused by those shitty dentures.

We can postulate that separating the males from females (that is also confirmed in archival material) was done to produce better rope and/or stronger fibers...but I really have ta call a duck a duck when it looks, smells, tastes, and acts like one.

In short, I'll believe what I believe. Others can as well. Like whether the chicken or egg came first - we'll probably never know.

Meanwhile, if the policy around here became "a snarky comment must have linked attribution", I missed that memo.

Interesting the reactions one solicits when lobbing grenades like that one.

Posted by: akula51 at March 06, 2013 11:22 AM (hNXHo)

240 Now the only question is do I eat it in front of him or do I put it on display and taunt him with it?

So that would be a Hate Cupcake then?

Hmmm, think I'll head to Chik-Fil-A and see if I get me one.

Posted by: Sean Bannion at March 06, 2013 11:22 AM (+q0tv)

241 Until four months ago I trusted the American people. Now . . . I can't say I do anymore.

If I could find a way to preserve my own family and our standard of living, I'd say fuck 'em all because they deserve what's coming.

But I'm stuck here, too. The temptation to set fire to the boat is strong but we're too far from land.

Posted by: Trimegistus at March 06, 2013 11:22 AM (OLgc9)

242
Sooo, now there's supposed to be a reason why we're screwed?

I thought it was just the natural order of things.

SNAFU. G'mornin', all you short-bus people.

Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this shit. at March 06, 2013 11:22 AM (+z4pE)

243 You found some ?


Very small lots. 1 to 3 boxes at a location at best. No bulk.

Posted by: rickb223 at March 06, 2013 11:22 AM (GFM2b)

244 You could use Joe as an ashtray.


Might get a little smelly.

Posted by: eleven at March 06, 2013 11:22 AM (KXm42)

245 So that would be a Hate Cupcake then?

Hmmm, think I'll head to Chik-Fil-A and see if I get me one.
Posted by: Sean Bannion at March 06, 2013 11:22 AM (+q0tv)



Good idea. *slides brownie over to you*

Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Now with extra taunting. at March 06, 2013 11:23 AM (VtjlW)

246 The fact of the matter is that most people want to be told what to do. They want a higher authority to watch out for them, to see that no one gets more than they do, some entity that they can appeal to when shit doesn't go their way.

In the U.S., there are a large number of people who are happy relying on themselves and their ability to think and make decisions. However, we're still not a majority. We can weaken and slow the movement to become a nanny state, but we can't stop it.

Personally, I like the idea of encouraging monarchies in lesser developed countries. The aura of nobility would be impossible for the world's billionaires to pass up and their egos would insure that things would improve in the hell holes they would take over. On top of that, the most motivated U.S. citizens who despirately want a king to bow down to would have a place to immigrate to.

Let's quit trying to defy gravity and give the people what they want. Just not here.

Posted by: jwest at March 06, 2013 11:23 AM (u2a4R)

247 234 At least an ashtray has a useful purpose.

Biden and an ashtray? They're both butt receptacles.

Posted by: Clutch Cargo at March 06, 2013 11:23 AM (Qxdfp)

248 So that would be a Hate Cupcake then?

H8Cakes.
Giving Tasty Cakes a run for their money.
Since 2012.

Posted by: rickb223 at March 06, 2013 11:24 AM (GFM2b)

249 My advice to my young adult kids:
1. Trust no one in politics. No one. Never. Ever.
2. Trust no media. Anywhere. Ever.
3. Verify everything with facts. Use. Your. Brain
4. Trust your instincts.
5. Live within your means. Save your money. And move it to safe tax havens.
6. Work your a$$ off in whatever field you pursue.
7.Never take the government handout. Ever. For any reason.
8. Never fill out government surveys / info requests / census info. Never. Ever.
9. Have and maintain at least onefirearm. This includes conceal/carry permits.
10. Shoot to kill. Empty the magazine. Never look back.

Posted by: Foghorn Leghorn at March 06, 2013 11:25 AM (EGPJQ)

250 Do we trust the people in New Orleans that, when told to evacuate, couldn't muster the energy to move five feet? The folks in Chicago who vote for Jesse Jackson Jr.? Or who vote for Robin Kelly, who doesn't say a word about gang violence but castigates the NRA? No, I don't.

Posted by: ejo at March 06, 2013 11:25 AM (GXvSO)

251 Sure. Right. Look in the mirror and start to change things. Don't be a carnival barker- be a builder of things.


I don't know whether this is true for anyone else, but it's true for me. My contributions to changing things are inversely proportional to my weekly post count here.

It takes the same kind of intellectual mettle to do both things.

Posted by: Truman North, last of the famous international playboys at March 06, 2013 11:25 AM (cQBh3)

252 Good idea. *slides brownie over to you*

Thanh you, my Queen.

::: nom nom nom nom :::

Off to order uniforms for hawt ninja chicks ! Ciao all.

Posted by: Sean Bannion at March 06, 2013 11:26 AM (+q0tv)

253 It is only March 6. It will take a while longer for all of the doom stories to end.

For perspective*, look back at the wailing and crying the Democrats were doing after Bush was elected and re-elected. Heck, look back at the 1930's and see how well Republicans and conservatives were doing nationally.


*My take is that those who are serious partisans see any setback of any kind as a Portent of DOOM! forever, and not as the typical back-and-forth of US politics.

Posted by: Mikey NTH - Pirate Scum of Umbar at March 06, 2013 11:27 AM (hLRSq)

254 Lawyer: State's main witness in George Zimmerman murder case lied

Reporters asked: Will you charge the 19-year-old Miami woman with perjury?

The state's lead prosecutor, Bernie de la Rionda, gave an ambiguous answer: "You can all read the law and make your own decision."

The woman had told prosecutors she was in the hospital on the day of Trayvon's funeral.

"In fact, she lied," defense attorney Don West said.

Posted by: PeeWee Herman at March 06, 2013 11:27 AM (e8kgV)

255
214 -

Jefferson was openly battling Hamilton for control over the direction of the federal government, and actively working with the french to undermine Washington's stated positions. Washington either didn't know, or he didn't care, so if it's something other than naivete, I'm not sure what it is.

Posted by: BurtTC at March 06, 2013 11:27 AM (TOk1P)

256 The aura of nobility would be impossible for the world's billionaires to
pass up and their egos would insure that things would improve in the
hell holes they would take over.


Ummmmm

Posted by: Baby Doc Duvalier, Muammar Qaddafi and Hugo Chavez (D-Toast) at March 06, 2013 11:28 AM (6TB1Z)

257 Thanks to "pep" for the link in comment #17. The linked article is refreshingly upbeat, and I think there's a lot of truth in it. (For those who haven't read it, it argues that the GOP leadership in Congress has deftly outmaneuvered Obama.)

Posted by: sauropod at March 06, 2013 11:29 AM (WdzGK)

258 []Do you see this as an antecedent of the War of Southern Rebellion?


I don't now about the antecedent to the war of Northern Aggression but it was a forerunner of the corrupt practices of taxation that came about later which was one of the major causes of the the secession movement in the South. That was the tariffs of abomination.


However, in the Whiskey Rebellion people had already tried just about everything short of armed revolt that they could do. And much like today they were ignored because the people in the urban areas on the coast held all the power in the government. That was the same way with Shay's Rebellion in MA which really may have been the first, but it was before the Constitution.


Sure we owed money for the war. How is it that VA managed to pay its debts and the others didn't, even when they had a much larger cash flow than VA?


Any time the federal government (or the States for that matter) implements taxation it MUST be in a fair manner that taxes everyone, not an unlikely few. We did not have it then, we do not have it now. Which is why you keep seeing these same taxation arguments over and over and over and over.


And that is why sooner or later it is GOING to burn.

Posted by: Vic at March 06, 2013 11:29 AM (53z96)

259 8. Never fill out government surveys / info requests / census info. Never. Ever.<<<


What about the surveys compelled by law? I got a 36 pager for my business this year that fell into that category (from Dept of Commerce). The same day I got a 26 pager at home for my farm (from USDA). Both mandatory. Should I have blown them off and gone to jail?

Posted by: Muad'dib at March 06, 2013 11:30 AM (KjlbF)

260 "That's the problem. Most conservatives don't trust other conservatives or Republicans let alone moderates or liberals."

No, that's not a problem at all. That's people on the right finally realizing that they've been suckers. Maybe we've finally escaped the delusion of Politician As Hero that already destroyed the left.

Political parties and elected representatives aren't there to be trusted. We elect them to be used by us, and we remove them from office when they cease to be useful. I trust them to avoid being punished and exactly nothing more. It's nothing personal, just business.

Posted by: GalosGann at March 06, 2013 11:30 AM (vW1n3)

261 > We can weaken and slow the movement to become a nanny state, but we can't stop it.
<

I don't believe that because it is not sustainable.

People trust government because despite the rhetoric it always seems to be there. The Achilles Heel in that argument is that massive, unsustainable social spending is not sustainable and at some point needs to be significantly pared back.

To a certain degree, I believe Obama's attempt to massively change this country and plunge her into debt may be liberals ultimate undoing. They have succeeded largely because they've plodded along slowly and consolidated their gains over years. Thus, Obama has moved very quickly and the veil is starting to slip. When we can no longer afford the gratuitous, unachievable, unsustainable and therefore fallacious promises many people will get it. They will connect the lies and foolishness of their trust when none of these things materialize and a true crisis arises.

That's happening now. We are slowly taking from whole classes of our society and people see it. They are becoming less apathetic since it has started to hurt them personally.

It's a leisure to engage in political arguments which are hypothetical or philosophical. But almost everyone knows what failure looks like. Especially when it starts to hurt them personally.

Posted by: Marcus at March 06, 2013 11:30 AM (GGCsk)

262
Do we on the right still trust the people? Did we ever?

"Why should I agree to swap one tyrant three thousand miles away for three thousand tyrants one mile away?" ~ Mel Gibson's character in the The Patriot channeling, Mather Byles, Sr., Boston, 1776


"If one set of private subjects may at any time take upon themselves to
punish another set of private subjects just when they please, it’s such a
sort of government as I never heard of before; and according to my poor
notion of government, this is one of the principal things which
government is designed to prevent; and I own I had rather be a slave
under one master (for I know who he is I may perhaps be able to please
him) than a slave to a hundred or more whom I don’t know where to find,
nor what they will expect of me..." ~~Theophilus Lillie, Boston, 1770


Posted by: Radeaminnit at March 06, 2013 11:31 AM (Xv7f/)

263 Oh tyranny, I absolutely believe tyranny. Right now the only true race I see as remaining is do we get there before Europe does. Part of me is all USA USA USA about us getting there first. Let's be honest, when Americans set out to do something, we go balls to the wall to get it done fast.
Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Now with extra taunting. at March 06, 2013 11:20 AM (VtjlW)


This is why I'm angling for a position of some power in Alextopia.

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Assault Hobbit at March 06, 2013 11:31 AM (4df7R)

264 Of course we don't trust the people. That's why we have a Constitution full of "Congress shall make no law."

The people are idiots. Occasionally they elect the right person, usually by accident.

Posted by: TallDave at March 06, 2013 11:32 AM (/s1LA)

265
I agree that the real problem facing the Conservative movement and some in the Republican party is the question--can we trust the electorate?
I remember coming to the same conclusion when Bill Clinton was elected because he displayed chaem and empathy when both George Bush and Ross Perot seemed to lack empathy.
I believe conservatives need to stop arguing with democrats about issues like abortion and, instead, turn the arguement back to government itself. Point out that Obama and the DEms rammed through Obamacare but exempted themselves. Point out that we all will eventually struggle with Social Security but that government officials have a different plan. Point out that every 'Savior' who comes to power like Chavez, Mugabe, Assad in Syria, Hussein in Iraq; any savior from the right or left ends up hurting the country and the people he supposedly represents and significantly enriches himself. Point out that Obama is closing the White House because of the sequester so 8th graders can't visit during spring break but hasn't cut a single person employed in the White House. Point out that the Agricultural department is slowing down meat inspections which could lead to shortages but won't cancel any conferences it has scheduled where they will spend lavishly. Point out that our government employees no longer serve us but rather we, the tax payers, are servants of the government class.

We have to create an angry electorate because, in my opinion, we can't trust them. They will accept any freebie you give them as long as they feel that they you are being fair. We need to point out the Obama and Pelosi and the entire government is taking the entire electorate for a ride and it will end badly--eventually. We need to point out that these very same government employees are already doing everything to insulate themselves from any coming disaster. We nned to create an angry electorate not an informed one because I'm not sure they can truly be informed.

Posted by: John M at March 06, 2013 11:32 AM (XygAY)

266 >Do you see this as an antecedent of the War of Southern Rebellion?<

My Southern friends call this the War of Northern Aggression ;-)

Posted by: Marcus at March 06, 2013 11:32 AM (GGCsk)

267
I'd like to see the "Big-government-as-the-oppressor" angle tried by someone on the right.

Even better would be someone, preferably well respected (I don't know who that'd be) who could put together the facts about how the wrong people writing stupid laws can cause a great deal of economic damage. Exhibit One would be the CRA. It has now pretty much been proven that this one POS law has caused the lion's share of our current troubles, yet no one in Washington ever says anything about it. It's as though politicians think they are infallible and so is the government.

I suppose that would be all "radical" and "extremist" and shit to point out the truth and place the blame squarely where it belongs.

As long as politicians hide the truth from their constiuents, we'll never be free.

Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this shit. at March 06, 2013 11:34 AM (+z4pE)

268 52 So with the first minor victory (the public's failure to freak out
over sequestration) under their belts, our trustworthy GOP leadership
is set for a rushed vote on a Continuing Resolution today in the House
that will again raise the debt ceiling...


(1) The CR does not raise the debt ceiling.

(2) The discretionary budget authority subject to caps under the BCA (post-sequestration) is $984B. (1.usa.gov/13Fnf5X)

(3) The two departments given full-year budgets are Defense and Veterans Affairs. (http://1.usa.gov/Wrf2jA)

(4) The legislation was posted online earlier this week.

3/4/13: @rebeccagberg @nielslesniewski Per House aide: "Looking at Thursday but we're staying flexible on schedule because of possible weather."

2/27/13: "Key House conservatives say they can support measure to fund the government"- http://bit.ly/VNKS7K

3/6/13: @frankthorpNBC By my count, at least 13 House Cmte hearings have been postponed b/c of the snow hitting the DC area.

Posted by: 80sBaby at March 06, 2013 11:34 AM (YjDyJ)

269 DrewM, I dont read much in the morning and I guess you're the designated AoS whipping boy for whatever reason, but this was a thoughtful one. You frame the problem well.

Yeah, trust doesn't come easy. It has to be earned, and the track record of the GOP has earned nothing but scorn. I have come to believe that the GOP really isn't concerned about winning. Theyre content being the administrators of the welfare state.

Posted by: L, elle at March 06, 2013 11:34 AM (O6zkv)

270 My take:

Voter preference for small government is like having a preference for a smaller waistline. In total, voters would LOVE a small government, but piece by piece they have a hard time resisting. "What harm will one little regulation/benefit/piece of cake have on the diet?", they ask themselves.

Our strategy should be to become America's personal trainer.

Posted by: Serious Cat at March 06, 2013 11:34 AM (UypUQ)

271 I'll tell you something that hasn't worked out well for the country:
knocking off the conservative Democrats and replacing them with
Republicans, just because we could. It left both parties with
leadership that was way to the left of the country.


Please, do go on about this mythical country populated by a True Conservative majority. We do have a lot of sci-fi fans here, after all.

Does the story take place in an alternate universe? Another planet?

Posted by: Hollowpoint at March 06, 2013 11:36 AM (SY2Kh)

272 This is why I'm angling for a position of some power in Alextopia.

The Logistics Directorate has an opening for Comptroller. You should apply.

It's a behind the scenes kind of position, but it has a lot of power.

And sometimes the Queen sends us brownies. :: nom nom nom :::

Posted by: Sean Bannion at March 06, 2013 11:36 AM (+q0tv)

273 Our strategy should be to become America's personal trainer.


Posted by: Serious Cat at March 06, 2013 11:34 AM (UypUQ)

Can we drag America out of bed in the morning and make it run laps? Because that would be awesome.

Posted by: joncelli, dodging the Zombies of Sequester at March 06, 2013 11:36 AM (RD7QR)

274 This is why I'm angling for a position of some power in Alextopia.

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Assault Hobbit at March 06, 2013 11:31 AM (4df7R)


I'm told that attractive female nudity does wonders in Alextopia.

Posted by: BCochran1981 at March 06, 2013 11:38 AM (da5Wo)

275 >Posted by: 80sBaby at March 06, 2013 11:34 AM (YjDyJ)
<

Please don't interrupt the hyperbole and propaganda with facts.

You want to know what's wrong with the party? Exhibit number 1 is people clinging to rumors propagated by others who have a parochial interest in promoting divisions and ultimately have no idea how to govern.

Posted by: Marcus at March 06, 2013 11:38 AM (GGCsk)

276 This is why I'm angling for a position of some power in Alextopia.

The Logistics Directorate has an opening for Comptroller. You should apply.

It's a behind the scenes kind of position, but it has a lot of power.



I'd be happy with just an infantry position.

Posted by: rickb223 at March 06, 2013 11:39 AM (GFM2b)

277 Posted by: 80sBaby at March 06, 2013 11:34 AM (YjDyJ)

<

Please don't interrupt the hyperbole and propaganda with facts.

You
want to know what's wrong with the party? Exhibit number 1 is people
clinging to rumors propagated by others who have a parochial interest in
promoting divisions and ultimately have no idea how to govern.


Posted by: Marcus at March 06, 2013 11:38 AM (GGCsk


No, the problem isn't the rumors on what they have in the CR. The problem is that they are passing yet another CR at all. They have sent multiple budgets to the Senate for which Harry the pederast refuses to even vote on. Fuck them with a rusty unlubed chain saw on high speed.


Then maybe they will at least vote on it after their assholes are thoroughly reamed out. .

Posted by: Vic at March 06, 2013 11:41 AM (53z96)

278 As Conservatives take the tragic view of human nature I am not sure how much we can "trust the people". I trust them to fall for someone offering them a free lunch. The key is to actively promote moral behavior as it won't happen by itself. We should also have a market that sets up the proper incentives to foster self-reliance. This isn't rocket science here.

Posted by: Ken Royall at March 06, 2013 11:41 AM (x0g8a)

279
I'd be happy with just an infantry position.

I'd be happy to sleep inside.

Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this shit. at March 06, 2013 11:42 AM (+z4pE)

280 I'd be happy with just an infantry position.

There are always openings in the Pleasure Battalions.

Basic Training is hell though.

Posted by: Sean Bannion at March 06, 2013 11:43 AM (+q0tv)

281 Posted by: Baby Doc Duvalier, Muammar Qaddafi and Hugo Chavez (D-Toast) at March 06, 2013 11:28 AM (6TB1Z)

Civilization has been built by the wealthy and powerful taking control of a more-than-willing populus, exchanging order and protection for submission to authority.

The two-bit dictators are nothing more than colonels who saw an opportunity to lead a coup. Monarchies are established by those who can fund and lead ongoing governments.

Billionaires who don't step up, establish mercenary forces and take over third world countries are neglecting their duty to humanity.

Posted by: jwest at March 06, 2013 11:44 AM (u2a4R)

282 Who are these "people" you speak of? The ones I see in the newspaper and on TV? No, I don't trust them. I do place a fair bit of trust in the working people of the heartland, as opposed to the self-described elites on the coasts. What we have to do is break their stranglehold on education, information, and entertainment. Yeah, I know it sounds impossible, but until we frankly acknowledge what the problem really is, a minority of leftists who are subverting American traditional values and culture, we cannot fight it.

Posted by: sherlock at March 06, 2013 11:44 AM (BaQuW)

283 http://tinyurl.com/d55a49p

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at March 06, 2013 11:45 AM (Cm7V/)

284
Civilization has been built by the wealthy and powerful taking control of a more-than-willing populus, exchanging order and protection for submission to authority.

I would counter that we were the exeption to that rule. The 20th century saw the greatest increase in the worldwide standard of living through the efforts of the free people of America.

Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this shit. at March 06, 2013 11:47 AM (+z4pE)

285 There are always openings in the Pleasure Battalions.

Basic Training is hell though.


This is my rifle, this is my gun?

Posted by: rickb223 at March 06, 2013 11:47 AM (GFM2b)

286 So how are we going to continue to fund the government without increasing the debt ceiling? Magic?

Posted by: jeannebodine at March 06, 2013 11:47 AM (x0dlI)

287
283
http://tinyurl.com/d55a49p

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at March 06, 2013 11:45 AM (Cm7V/)


A link to your FB page? Brave girl.

Posted by: BCochran1981 at March 06, 2013 11:47 AM (da5Wo)

288 Am I the only one who just realized this?:
All Lefties are not so stupid as to believe that banning a gun that just looks like a scary gun does anything. Sure it is a step toward their goal but the thing I realized suddenly is that it demonizes the ones who use guns. Really that is what this is all about. Sure Holder and Barry want to disarm the citizens but what is going on now is simply Alinsky's rules: "People that own guns are evil." "Conservatives are evil" "People that adhere to that old Constitution are evil"

Posted by: Daybrother at March 06, 2013 11:47 AM (9Xj/b)

289 I'll trust my fellow Americans when they can no longer vote themselves access to someone else's wallet.

Posted by: Rule #2 at March 06, 2013 11:48 AM (CypDC)

290 Put the crayons down BCochran!!!!

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at March 06, 2013 11:48 AM (Cm7V/)

291 Billionaires who don't step up, establish mercenary forces and take over
third world countries are neglecting their duty to humanity.


If it's all the same to you, I'd prefer not to be the subject of Mayor Bloomberg or George Soros, thanks very much.

Posted by: pep at March 06, 2013 11:48 AM (6TB1Z)

292 I do place a fair bit of trust in the working people of the heartland, as opposed to the self-described elites on the coasts.

You mean the ones who elected Al Franken to the Senate?

Trust no one.

Posted by: pep at March 06, 2013 11:50 AM (6TB1Z)

293 Sure Holder and Barry want to disarm the citizens but what is going on now is simply Alinsky's rules: "People that own guns are evil." "Conservatives are evil" "People that adhere to that old Constitution are evil"


If I was as evil as they are trying to make me out to be, there'd be a hell of a lot more dead democrats than there are.

Posted by: rickb223 at March 06, 2013 11:50 AM (GFM2b)

294 *checks* Yep, still not snowing in SE PA. I'm sure minisnowpocalypse will happen any time now.

*checks again* Yep, Hugo Chavez. Still dead.

You may carry on.

Posted by: chique d'afrique (the artist formerly known as african chick) at March 06, 2013 11:50 AM (6zgse)

295 You mean the ones who elected Al Franken to the Senate?

Trust no one.


Posted by: pep at March 06, 2013 11:50 AM (6TB1Z)

He was not elected.

Posted by: Vic at March 06, 2013 11:50 AM (53z96)

296 You mean the ones who elected Al Franken to the Senate?

Trust no one.


Posted by: pep at March 06, 2013 11:50 AM (6TB1Z)


No one is exactly who elected Franken. I can't think of a more open stealing of an election in my lifetime than that.

Posted by: BCochran1981 at March 06, 2013 11:51 AM (da5Wo)

297 This is my rifle, this is my gun?

Our Queen demands only the most agile troops for the Pleasure Battalions.

Since the last graduation requirement is the obstacle course, she requires the entire course be covered in Astroglide.

Only the strongest survive.

Posted by: Sean Bannion at March 06, 2013 11:51 AM (+q0tv)

298 "Jefferson was openly battling Hamilton for control over the direction of the federal government, and actively working with the french to undermine Washington's stated positions"

Oh, Washington cared. He cared a lot. And he was well aware of Jefferson's political leanings, especially after reading Jefferson-subsidized newspapers that criticized his administration, and while following the well-publicized tour of Citizen Genet as the newly-appointed French ambassador was feted in the southern US.

Posted by: mrp at March 06, 2013 11:51 AM (HjPtV)

299 So how are we going to continue to fund the government without increasing the debt ceiling? Magic?
Posted by: jeannebodine at March 06, 2013 11:47 AM (x0dlI)

Voodoo economics

Posted by: Nevergiveup at March 06, 2013 11:52 AM (jE38p)

300 @295. You mean lots of random, well-meaning people didn't mistake a car trunk for the voting booth? Vic, you are so cynical.

Posted by: chique d'afrique (the artist formerly known as african chick) at March 06, 2013 11:52 AM (6zgse)

301 One of the biggest problems that must be tackled is this new trend of Republicans deciding to just take their ball and going home. Gabe was absolutely against looking at this problem back in November, but I think it's a huge one we must fix. While Obama has the worst approvals with Republicans that a Democrat President has had in a LONG time, he also seems to be helped by some of the laziest opposition voters a President has dealt with. Reagan revived GOP turnout and Bush capitalized on it's full potential. Since then we've gone downhill. Yeah we had good turnout in 2010 but just 2 years later we were back to square one. When you have someone who has huge low info voter turnout for him (something even Clinton had issues with) you're gonna need all hands on deck. What's frustrating is that in 2012 we did so much that we failed w/ not just in 2008 but even in 2004. We won voters we hadn't won before in 20+ years, but because the low info base came out huge and the GOP didn't turn out like it could, O eked out a win and was even able to pad his electoral college margin of victory.

Posted by: AuthorLMendez at March 06, 2013 11:52 AM (yAor6)

302
To answer the question of the post, yes, I do trust the people, but there is a qualifier: they absolutely MUST be properly and truthfully informed.

As we have seen, the edumacation system and the MFM are actively working to make sure that never happens.

PT Barnum was right.

Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this shit. at March 06, 2013 11:52 AM (+z4pE)

303
Brilliant, DrewM.
Kudos.

Posted by: davisbr at March 06, 2013 11:52 AM (EuWFS)

304 Poor drewsie. Betrayed by das volk.

Posted by: andrew breitbart at March 06, 2013 11:53 AM (SrCwM)

305 I would counter that we were the exeption to that rule. The 20th century saw the greatest increase in the worldwide standard of living through the efforts of the free people of America.
Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this shit. at March 06, 2013 11:47 AM (+z4pE)

This is absolutely true. The U.S., for some reason, was a magnet for those who had advanced to the point that they wanted to have a say in directing how the government was run.

The big mistake was projecting this desire on our part to the rest of the world, who were very content to have someone calling all the shots. Regretably, we demonized the practice of having those with the means and ambition to run countries that weren't ready to govern themselves take over and rule.

What's right for us isn't necessarily right for everyone else at this particular moment in history.

Posted by: jwest at March 06, 2013 11:53 AM (u2a4R)

306
@261 Marcus

"They are becoming less apathetic since it has started to hurt them personally."

Unfortunately thats what it takes. As anarmy travels on its stomach, the FSA is no different and the rumbling is just starting.

Posted by: Buckeye Abroad at March 06, 2013 11:53 AM (f+TdG)

307 Chavez still dead? Oh well...


The bitch that bore him is in heat again.

Posted by: eleven at March 06, 2013 11:54 AM (KXm42)

308 And now, we are not even getting the least of the evils. I am one step away from abandoning the Republican Party.
Posted by: Vic at March 06, 2013 10:02 AM (53z96)

What will do it for you Vic? Amnesty, 'univeral background checks', or raising taxes?

Any one of the 3 will insure that I only need to concern myself with voting for state-level offices and cast the random vote for whomever appears to be an actual conservative in Federal/National Races.

If we get a Chris Christy or Jeb Bush in 2016, well, that will make it a little faster for me to fill out my ballot.

Posted by: blindside at March 06, 2013 11:55 AM (x7g7t)

309 Posted by: mrp at March 06, 2013 11:51 AM (HjPtV)


Washington was not totally against Jefferson's treatment of the French. They both agreed that the French Monarchy could not be trusted but for different reasons. Washington knew that what the Frech were really after was reclaiming land in the Americas that they lost to the British in the 7 years war. Jefferson distrusted them because of the way they were treating the French citizens in the run-up to the French Revolution.


As for Hamilton, that is no different than the stu8ff we have going on today, except for the most part, Jefferson was right and Hamilton was wrong. (referring to a national bank)

Posted by: Vic at March 06, 2013 11:55 AM (53z96)

310 296 I can't think of a more open stealing of an election in my lifetime than that.

I still imagine a future time when folks look back at 2012 and sadly reminisce about the same. At some point, someone somewhere is going to start talking - and it may have to be well after they lose their fear of a drone strike/DHS rendition and sanity has returned to the Oval Office.

Posted by: akula51 at March 06, 2013 11:55 AM (hNXHo)

311
So how are we going to continue to fund the government without increasing the debt ceiling? Magic?


Posted by: jeannebodine at March 06, 2013 11:47 AM (x0dlI)





We don't. That's the whole point.

Posted by: BCochran1981 at March 06, 2013 11:56 AM (da5Wo)

312 Vic, you are so cynical.

Posted by: chique d'afrique (the artist formerly known as african chick) at March 06, 2013 11:52 AM (6zgse)

Yes, I am. You get that way when you have had your face rubbed in crap for over 60 years.

Posted by: Vic at March 06, 2013 11:56 AM (53z96)

313 If it's all the same to you, I'd prefer not to be the subject of Mayor Bloomberg or George Soros, thanks very much.
Posted by: pep at March 06, 2013 11:48 AM (6TB1Z)

Maybe not you, but there would be millions of people who would benefit from living under the rule of King Soros and Emperor Bloomburg - especially if their kingdoms were next door to King Koch's.

Posted by: jwest at March 06, 2013 11:56 AM (u2a4R)

314 A Republic, not a Democracy. I've never trusted "the people" because most people no longer have an informed sense of civic affairs for a multitude of reasons. No more than erg has the sense not to wipe his ass with his bare hand and then eat popcorn.

Posted by: Wonkish Rogue at March 06, 2013 11:57 AM (IqMNQ)

315 Posted by: blindside at March 06, 2013 11:55 AM (x7g7t)


It doesn't matter who we get anymore, they all want the same thing. Rubbing my nose in shit.


LIB

Posted by: Vic at March 06, 2013 11:58 AM (53z96)

316 275 You want to know what's wrong with the party? Exhibit number 1 is
people clinging to rumors propagated by others who have a parochial
interest in promoting divisions and ultimately have no idea how to
govern.


I understand why a level of distrust exists between certain GOP leaders and the base but that does not mean that everything is conspiracy. A number of lawmakers have been complaining about the snowstorm and they want to get home sooner rather than later. Aides were still considering when to hold the vote due to the weather as of Monday. If you have a solid whip count, you would try to take the vote sooner rather than later. I also do not understand how anyone can claim that they were taken by surprise by this particular bill.

Posted by: 80sBaby at March 06, 2013 11:58 AM (YjDyJ)

317 There are, I suspect, more colonels than billionaires in the Third World. A colonel or other officer is more likely to take power and become a billionaire than a billionaire is likely to launch a successful coup and government. The former has been done.

Posted by: RioBravo at March 06, 2013 11:58 AM (eEfYn)

318 312 Vic, you are so cynical.

Posted by: chique d'afrique (the artist formerly known as african chick) at March 06, 2013 11:52 AM (6zgse)

Yes, I am. You get that way when you have had your face rubbed in crap for over 60 years.
Posted by: Vic at March 06, 2013 11:56 AM (53z96)

Maybe I should have added a sarc tag. But I suspect you know I was being sarcastic.

Posted by: chique d'afrique (the artist formerly known as african chick) at March 06, 2013 11:59 AM (6zgse)

319 313 especially if their kingdoms were next door to King Koch's.

I'd like to think one could carve out a piece of that libertarian fiefdom and have a nice peaceful existence...without constantly worrying that the Government maintained a presence in everything including one's rectum.

Posted by: akula51 at March 06, 2013 11:59 AM (hNXHo)

320 No more than erg has the sense not to wipe his ass with his bare hand and then eat popcorn.

He's the most specialist snowflake.

Posted by: Sean Bannion at March 06, 2013 11:59 AM (+q0tv)

321 That said low turnout was not the only reason we lost. Let's be honest, the conventions and the post-polling reactions to them show that the Democrats presented a convention that helped them more then ours did. The 1st debate was the only time that Obama really got a scare. On top of that, look at the exit data. While yes it was a heavily Democrat electorate, the exit shows majorities/pluralities thought Obama's time as President was disappointing, the economy sucked, the country was headed in the wrong direction, wanted less Govt, and even rated Romney as a better leader, better for the economy and deficits, and someone who was align with their values more. BUT they also told themselves that Bush was to blame for the economy and Obama "cared more". I find this willful ignorance to be even scarier then the idea they may think it's getting better.

As for the stolen election conspiracy theories, I don't buy it. Yes there was most likely voter fraud. Yes there's some evidence a state or two may have been close enough to be effected by voter fraud but you still have the issue that the electorate was just more Democrat heavy and that some voter-id states went to Obama. Voter fraud most definitely occurred but not enough to shift who won or lost this election in my mind.

Posted by: AuthorLMendez at March 06, 2013 12:00 PM (yAor6)

322 @ Vic
Still sick of Franken here in MN. It was an election sham of all time.It doesn't help that he such a dufous. I am hoping a strong conservative candidate comes forward to run against him next year.

Posted by: Foghorn Leghorn at March 06, 2013 12:00 PM (pDRpv)

323 Maybe I should have added a sarc tag. But I suspect you know I was being sarcastic.

Posted by: chique d'afrique (the artist formerly known as african chick) at March 06, 2013 11:59 AM (6zgse)


LOL, yes I did, I was being with the snark as well.

Posted by: Vic at March 06, 2013 12:00 PM (53z96)

324 286 So how are we going to continue to fund the government without increasing the debt ceiling? Magic?

My recollection is that they will not need to discuss the debt ceiling until May.

Posted by: 80sBaby at March 06, 2013 12:01 PM (YjDyJ)

325 I'd like to think one could carve out a piece of that libertarian fiefdom and have a nice peaceful existence...without constantly worrying that the Government maintained a presence in everything including one's rectum.
Posted by: akula51 at March 06, 2013 11:59 AM (hNXHo)

A King Koch would probably grant someone like you a portion of their kingdom and give you the title and lands to run them - for a piece of the action.

Posted by: jwest at March 06, 2013 12:02 PM (u2a4R)

326 8 year old caller on Chris Plante show.

"Why would people be happy to go tour the Whitehouse? I won't go until the dictator is gone."

Posted by: RWC at March 06, 2013 12:02 PM (fWAjv)

327 How are they going to fund the debt, same way they have been. Cook the books and print money. There is no end to the lies and corruption this administration will do.

Posted by: Vic at March 06, 2013 12:03 PM (53z96)

328 Billionaires who don't step up, establish mercenary forces and take over third world countries are neglecting their duty to humanity.
Posted by: jwest at March 06, 2013 11:44 AM (u2a4R)

I don't see anything in the Rulebook for Billionaires that they're required to do anything other than build little play fortresses with bales of cash (p. 6, para. b) and jump around showering themselves with gold coins like Scrooge McDuck (p.10, para a). Nope, nothing about 'duty to humanity' anywhere in there.

Posted by: troyriser at March 06, 2013 12:03 PM (vtiE6)

329
Alternate post title:

Are Today's Conservatives Afraid to Admit to Their Naiivete?


Posted by: soothsayer at March 06, 2013 12:04 PM (+oin+)

330 My recollection is that they will not need to discuss the debt ceiling until May.

That's the time frame for public consumption, but I was in a briefing at OMB last week wher they said the government can make it deep into July, maybe even August before they need Congress to act.

Posted by: Sean Bannion at March 06, 2013 12:04 PM (+q0tv)

331
s for the stolen election conspiracy theories, I don't buy it. Yes there was most likely voter fraud. Yes there's some evidence a state or two may have been close enough to be effected by voter fraud but you still have the issue that the electorate was just more Democrat heavy and that some voter-id states went to Obama. Voter fraud most definitely occurred but not enough to shift who won or lost this election in my mind.

IIRC, no state that required Voter ID carried TFG. Plus, close elections don't need much fraud to succeed. Throw a couple of states, and Viola! You have what we have today.

I'd like to see the death penalty for anyone caught in any type of voting shenanigans, but that's just me.

Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this shit. at March 06, 2013 12:05 PM (+z4pE)

332 Is this the name of those battalions you speak of Sean?

The Venusian Wild Gypsies

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at March 06, 2013 12:05 PM (Cm7V/)

333 Vanity Fair has an excerpt up ofthe just-published Zev Chafets biography ofRoger Ailes, in which he describes Biden as "dumb as an ashtray" (my favorite part). Libtards are, at root, totalitarians. Some of them think they aren't, but they really are, while some just come right out and admit the truth. Pussy footing around with these clowns in some push-me-pull-you political fight is stupid:I hope westart offasking Americans straight out to reject tyranny.

"“What if you get there [to heaven] and it turns out that God is a liberal?” I asked.
Ailes paused. It was something that evidently hadn’t occurred to him. “Well, hell, if God’s a liberal, that’s his business,” he said. He paused again, imagining it. “But I doubt very much that he is. He’s got a good heart.”
http://tinyurl.com/akkncrn

Posted by: MTF at March 06, 2013 12:05 PM (B5y+v)

334 "IIRC, no state that required Voter ID carried TFG."

the one I live and vote in did*

*by just 0.9%

Posted by: AuthorLMendez at March 06, 2013 12:06 PM (yAor6)

335 I don't see anything in the Rulebook for Billionaires that they're required to do anything...- Posted by: troyriser at March 06, 2013 12:03 PM (vtiE6)
------
Well what we have here is the need for a coercive law and a new tax.

Posted by: RioBravo at March 06, 2013 12:06 PM (eEfYn)

336 Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this shit. at March 06, 2013 12:05 PM (+z4pE)

Interesting idea. Vote fraud is essentially the non-democratic overthrow of our government. How does that differ from treason?

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at March 06, 2013 12:07 PM (GsoHv)

337 The people are what we call "The Stupid!".

Posted by: Paladin at March 06, 2013 12:07 PM (YNPwP)

338 BTW, Rand Paul is filibustering Brennan live on C-SPAN right now.

Posted by: Ian S. at March 06, 2013 12:07 PM (B/VB5)

339 I see the Airing of Grievances continues.

I will come back later.

Oh, by the way, Drew, there is a new book out.

It details Roger Ailes opinions of many people. You might want to take a look at it.

Posted by: Miss Marple at March 06, 2013 12:07 PM (GoIUi)

340 Vic -

Context. Washington became president in April, 1789, the same year that the Bastille was stormed (July). The French monarchy was bankrupt after the American Revolution and was in no position to threaten any country. Washington was alarmed at the upswelling of support for the Jacobin cause in the US and viewed Citizen Genet's blatant attempts to drag the fledgling US into direct conflict with Great Briain with deep concern.

Posted by: mrp at March 06, 2013 12:07 PM (HjPtV)

341 The Venusian Wild Gypsies

Hmmmm, sounds like a Roma detachment.

I am not familiar with them.

Posted by: Sean Bannion at March 06, 2013 12:08 PM (+q0tv)

342 The problem with America is that it's full of Americans.

The problem with Americans is that they're all allowed to vote.

Posted by: Empire of Jeff at March 06, 2013 12:08 PM (CJjw5)

343 The fact of the matter is that most people want to be told what to do. They want a higher authority to watch out for them, to see that no one gets more than they do, some entity that they can appeal to when shit doesn't go their way.

I kind of think that it's more that they want a higher authority to tell them to do what they want to do anyway. To validate their selfishness, as it were.

Posted by: toby928© furthers the meme at March 06, 2013 12:08 PM (QupBk)

344 BTW, Rand Paul is filibustering Brennan live on C-SPAN right now.

Posted by: Ian S. at March 06, 2013 12:07 PM (B/VB5)

GOOD! R. Paul just went up a notch.

Posted by: Vic at March 06, 2013 12:09 PM (53z96)

345 Sean and BCochran's idea of an FTX in Vegas

Hunted by the Nymphs of Altair

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at March 06, 2013 12:09 PM (Cm7V/)

346 Ahmadinejad Predicts Hugo Chavez Will Rise From The Dead: He Will “Return On Resurrection Day” With Imam Mahdi And Jesus…

Yeah good luck with that one

Posted by: Nevergiveup at March 06, 2013 12:09 PM (jE38p)

347
309 -

Jefferson was still wearing his french cheerleader outfit, and wearing lipstick to kiss french arse long after they started cutting off each others' heads.

Now that I would not call naivete. Jefferson was blinded by his own foolish and misguided belief in his own brilliance.

Posted by: BurtTC at March 06, 2013 12:10 PM (TOk1P)

348 Nevergiveup, CyberDyne of Japan has produced HAL which helps people walk... so the cybernetic track suit is not far off.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at March 06, 2013 12:10 PM (Cm7V/)

349 IIRC, no state that required Voter ID carried TFG.
Plus, close elections don't need much fraud to succeed. Throw a couple
of states, and Viola! You have what we have today.

I'd like to see the death penalty for anyone caught in any type of voting shenanigans, but that's just me.


Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this shit. at March 06, 2013 12:05 PM (+z4pE)

Meh, the correlation there could flow the opposite direction: states that vote heavily republican are more likely to enact voter ID laws. So it's really not indicative of anything frankly.

Posted by: tsrblke (work) at March 06, 2013 12:10 PM (IsyJh)

350 "The problem with Americans is that they're all allowed to vote."

true enough. how someone who doesn't pay taxes can vote on whether to raise how much I pay in them is beyond me

Posted by: AuthorLMendez at March 06, 2013 12:10 PM (yAor6)

351
Interesting idea. Vote fraud is essentially the non-democratic overthrow of our government. How does that differ from treason?

It doesn't.

It does, however, explain my nic. I haven't gotten what I have voted for in a long, long time. Somtimes I even wonder why I manage to give a shit on some days.

Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this shit. at March 06, 2013 12:11 PM (+z4pE)

352 So wait...we are going to get to crucify him and feed he followers to the lions? OK, works for me.

Posted by: Paladin at March 06, 2013 12:11 PM (YNPwP)

353 Posted by: BurtTC at March 06, 2013 12:10 PM (TOk1P)

I think it was that he was so enamored of revolution that he could not see that the American version was the perfect confluence of events and people.

And because those French chicks put out for him.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at March 06, 2013 12:12 PM (GsoHv)

354 338
BTW, Rand Paul is filibustering Brennan live on C-SPAN right now.

Posted by: Ian S. at March 06, 2013 12:07 PM (B/VB5)



Why? I thought Rand said the president was entitled to to 'some leeway' on his picks....that's why he voted 'yes' on Hagel.

Posted by: Tami at March 06, 2013 12:12 PM (X6akg)

355 A King Koch would probably grant someone like you a portion of their kingdom and give you the title and lands to run them - for a piece of the action.

I can easily see carving 10 or 15 points off the top line...no worries, no issues, no problems.

50+ points off the bottom line?

Worries, issues, problems. Obama.

Posted by: akula51 at March 06, 2013 12:13 PM (hNXHo)

356 Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this shit. at March 06, 2013 12:11 PM (+z4pE)

That was a rhetorical question...I agree with you.

I still give a shit because we have brats who will probably bear the brunt of our 50 year experiment in socialism.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at March 06, 2013 12:14 PM (GsoHv)

357
353 -

Maybe. That's a generous interpretation, but at least he was in the position to buy the land where I'm currently sitting from the french, so for that at least I should be grateful. But generally, I'm not a Jefferson fan.

Posted by: BurtTC at March 06, 2013 12:15 PM (TOk1P)

358 Still sick of Franken here in MN. It was an election sham of all time.It
doesn't help that he such a dufous. I am hoping a strong conservative
candidate comes forward to run against him next year.


It never would've come down to a recount if Coleman hadn't run such a lousy campaign.

A "strong conservative" isn't going to get elected Senator here in MN. The idea that True Pure Conservative can win anywhere if only they fight hard enough just doesn't hold water.

Conservative suburban and outstate House reps? Sure. Senator? No.

Posted by: Hollowpoint at March 06, 2013 12:15 PM (SY2Kh)

359 Context. Washington became president in April, 1789,
the same year that the Bastille was stormed (July). The French monarchy
was bankrupt after the American Revolution and was in no position to
threaten any country. Washington was alarmed at the upswelling of
support for the Jacobin cause in the US and viewed Citizen Genet's
blatant attempts to drag the fledgling US into direct conflict with
Great Briain with deep concern.


Posted by: mrp at March 06, 2013 12:07 PM (HjPtV)

I may have my time frames off by some working straight from memory but Washington was genuinely concerned about the French desire to get land back it lost in the 7 years war. He did not trust the French government.
And Jefferson had no intention of trying to drag the US into a war with GB. He initially supported the revolution until they went bananas with the guillotine. And some of the statement he made in support were made BEFORE he learned that the King had been executed.
That effectively ended his support for the cause when he found out. That is what I remember. I just do not believe there was a lot of animosity between Washington and Jefferson. They were both from the same State, they were both patriots.

And either one of them had more personal and professional integrity than any politician we have alive today.

Posted by: Vic at March 06, 2013 12:15 PM (53z96)

360
true enough. how someone who doesn't pay taxes can vote on whether to raise how much I pay in them is beyond me
Posted by: AuthorLMendez at March 06, 2013 12:10 PM (yAor6)


The 24th Amendment was a total disaster. Banning the poll tax, OK. But banning any linkage between paying taxes and voting was a colossal mistake.

Posted by: Jay Guevara at March 06, 2013 12:16 PM (IDSI7)

361 For the first time in many years, voices in the US administration were criticizing the Israeli defense forces for under-reacting and, in this case, also underestimating the chemical weapons threat emanating from Syria and neglecting to pursue counter-measures. This is what visiting Israeli Defense Minister Ehud Barak heard when he met US Defense Secretary Chuck Hagel at the Pentagon Tuesday, March 5, as the new defense secretary’s first foreign visitor.
DEBKAfile’s military and Washington sources disclose that Barak was berated for “inadequate and cursory” military preparations which failed to take into account that a chemical attack on Israel would make it necessary for the IDF to enter Syria – most likely for an offensive operation coordinated against the common threat with the Turkish and Jordanian armies.
Present at the meeting between Hagel and Barak were also Gen. Martin Dempsey, Chairman of the US Chiefs of Staff and Israeli Ambassador Michael Oren. Our sources add that the conversation ranged over the Syrian crisis with no reference to a nuclear Iran.
From the defense secretary, Barak heard intelligence estimates confirmed for the first time by an American official that Hizballah has been able to procure a quantity of chemical weapons from Syria – a development which Israel’s leaders have vowed to prevent.
The proliferation of chemical weapons to HIzballah and other armed bands on Israel’s borders was apparently in the mind of Russia’s UN ambassador Vitaly Churkin, UN Security Council president for March, when he cautioned Monday that trouble was building up between Israel and Syria.

???? Sure shit on Israel and now when they are gun shy, blame them?

Posted by: Nevergiveup at March 06, 2013 12:17 PM (jE38p)

362 Please, do go on about this mythical country populated by a True Conservative majority. We do have a lot of sci-fi fans here, after all.

Does the story take place in an alternate universe? Another planet?


It took place here in 1970. Do you really think that a Pelosi would be in charge if there were 50 conservative Southern Democrats in the House? Eliminating conservative Democrats left the loonies in safe seats with the seniority. When fate, and the fuck ups of the Republicans, gave them the majority, the Far Left was in charge.

Posted by: toby928© furthers the meme at March 06, 2013 12:17 PM (QupBk)

363 Nope, nothing about 'duty to humanity' anywhere in there.
Posted by: troyriser at March 06, 2013 12:03 PM (vtiE6)

There used to be, but in just the last 100 years it's been changed to "set up a foundation and watch your money be used for shit that would spin you in your grave within 20 years of your death".

Give the gift that keeps on giving to your heirs - a nice little kingdom.

Posted by: jwest at March 06, 2013 12:18 PM (u2a4R)

364 BTW, Rand Paul is filibustering Brennan live on C-SPAN right now. Posted by: Ian S. at March 06, 2013 12:07 PM (B/VB5) GOOD! R. Paul just went up a notch.
Posted by: Vic at March 06, 2013 12:09 PM (53z96)

Really? I thought Rand Paul ultimately went along with Hagel's SecDef appointment because the President, according to Paul,should be able to choose whom he likes. So what changed?

Posted by: troyriser at March 06, 2013 12:19 PM (vtiE6)

365
I still give a shit because we have brats who will probably bear the brunt of our 50 year experiment in socialism.

Yeah. I'd like for the young'uns to grow up free, but the tide seems to be against that today. One or two more generations of indoctrination and we'll officially be history as the Land of Freedom and Opportunity.

Is it too early to start drinking? /rhetorical

Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this shit. at March 06, 2013 12:19 PM (+z4pE)

366 true enough. how someone who doesn't pay taxes can vote on whether to raise how much I pay in them is beyond me


No different than you having to pee in a cup to be allowed to make the money, yet they don't have to pee in a cup to take your money.

Posted by: rickb223 at March 06, 2013 12:20 PM (GFM2b)

367 Really? I thought Rand Paul ultimately went along
with Hagel's SecDef appointment because the President, according to
Paul,should be able to choose whom he likes. So what changed?

Posted by: troyriser at March 06, 2013 12:19 PM (vtiE6)


Yes he did, and if he had filibustered that one he would have went up another notch.

Posted by: Vic at March 06, 2013 12:20 PM (53z96)

368 Although once it makes it to the floor I don't know how one guy can filibuster it.

Posted by: Vic at March 06, 2013 12:20 PM (53z96)

369 Hmm. If I had billions and the ability to rule...no. You don't want that. Everything would be fine and dandy, you could go your own way and live in peace...

...until someone even looked like they wanted to change that.

Then I take out them, their family, their friends, and anyone who had close contact with. Just to make sure the contagion couldn't spread.

Yeah. I'm not ideal ruler material.

Posted by: Brother Cavil, the future Pope Ampersand I at March 06, 2013 12:21 PM (GBXon)

370

In his new book, At the Brink, economist and author John Lott Jr., assesses the presidency of Barack Obama and recalls conversations regarding gun laws they had while working at the University of Chicago.

In Chapter Three, Mr. Lott discusses gun-control and takes the reader back to his time at the University of Chicago, where he and then-professor Barack Obama spoke on numerous occasions about guns in America.

"I don't believe people should be able to own guns," Obama told Lott one day at the University of Chicago Law School.

Lott explains that he first met Obama shortly after completing his research on concealed handgun laws and crime.

"He did not come across as a moderate who wanted to bring people together," Lott writes.

After he introduced himself to Obama, Lott suggested that they have lunch one day to discuss their views on guns. According to Lott, Obama "grimaced and turned away." That was the way many conversations with Obama ended, Lott says.

Although the Law School was famous for the openness of its faculty and friendly engagement, Lott says, "Obama...preferred silent, scowling disdain to collegiality."


http://is.gd/pCdY0T

Posted by: Jones in CO at March 06, 2013 12:21 PM (8sCoq)

371 Why? I thought Rand said the president was entitled to to 'some leeway' on his picks....that's why he voted 'yes' on Hagel.

Daddy must've sent a note telling him to filibuster in response to the CIA and the Zionist Lobby responsibility for the Sandy Hook shooting.

It's only a matter of time before Rand fully unleashes his inner Paul crazy. He's not to be trusted.

Posted by: Hollowpoint at March 06, 2013 12:22 PM (SY2Kh)

372 The 24th Amendment was a total disaster. Banning the
poll tax, OK. But banning any linkage between paying taxes and voting
was a colossal mistake.

Posted by: Jay Guevara at March 06, 2013 12:16 PM (IDSI7)

My guess is that they were worried about taxation becoming a de facto poll tax. Of course a radically simplified tax code would ensure more people pay a bare minimum of taxes (which I think is the bigger problem here.)

Posted by: tsrblke (work) at March 06, 2013 12:22 PM (IsyJh)

373 until someone even looked like they wanted to change that.

Then I take out them, their family, their friends, and anyone who had close contact with. Just to make sure the contagion couldn't spread.

Yeah. I'm not ideal ruler material.


Together, we could RULE THE WORLD!

Posted by: rickb223 at March 06, 2013 12:22 PM (GFM2b)

374 "So what changed?"

Hagel had made questionable comments about Jews and Rand Paul is a Paul when all is said and done...

Posted by: AuthorLMendez at March 06, 2013 12:22 PM (yAor6)

375 Thomas Jefferson started backing away from the Revolution after the Genet Affair. Then there was the internicine conflict between the Jacobins and the Girondists.

The final straw was that the revolutionary fervor of 1789 inspired the Haitian Revolt, and that hit too close to home for Jefferson and his fellow plantation owners.

Posted by: mrp at March 06, 2013 12:23 PM (HjPtV)

376
Hmm. If I had billions and the ability to rule...no. You don't want that. Everything would be fine and dandy, you could go your own way and live in peace...

...until someone even looked like they wanted to change that.

Then I take out them, their family, their friends, and anyone who had close contact with. Just to make sure the contagion couldn't spread.

Yeah. I'm not ideal ruler material.


Cut. Jib. Newsletter.

Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this shit. at March 06, 2013 12:24 PM (+z4pE)

377 "The people have spoken, now they must be punished" - Ed Koch

Posted by: navybrat at March 06, 2013 12:24 PM (CgiRY)

378 Posted by: AuthorLMendez at March 06, 2013 12:22 PM (yAor6)

"The sins of the father?"

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at March 06, 2013 12:24 PM (GsoHv)

379 It's only a matter of time before Rand fully unleashes his inner Paul crazy.


Luap Dnar?

Rule #1. Never, ever, go full retard.

Posted by: rickb223 at March 06, 2013 12:25 PM (GFM2b)

380 Rand Paul is opposing him until they come clean on Beghazi was what I thought. But they got that supposedly and it was let onto the floor.


So I don't know how he is filibustering it now. The filibuster quits working once it makes it to the floor.

Posted by: Vic at March 06, 2013 12:25 PM (53z96)

381 364 Really? I thought Rand Paul ultimately went along with Hagel's SecDef appointment because the President, according to Paul,should be able to choose whom he likes. So what changed?

Domestic drones.

Sen. Paul's letter to Brennan: http://wapo.st/YNuVv6

Posted by: 80sBaby at March 06, 2013 12:25 PM (YjDyJ)

382 it should be pointed out there have been some favorable trends to the GOP as of late. such as younger minorities trending more Republicans then their elders. it's something that could be expanded on.

Posted by: AuthorLMendez at March 06, 2013 12:25 PM (yAor6)

383 Why? I thought Rand said the president was entitled to to 'some leeway' on his picks....that's why he voted 'yes' on Hagel.

The "leeway" ends at drone strikes on US soil, from what I've heard so far. Holder sent down a memo this morning pretty much stating the AoSHQ commenters are fair game.

Posted by: Ian S. at March 06, 2013 12:25 PM (B/VB5)

384 We on the right have never trusted people. That's why the bill of rights was introduced. It explicitly states that we dont' trust people enough to explicitly limit what damage people can do to themselves (and, by extent, everyone else) via the Government.

Posted by: Dr. Mr. Badman at March 06, 2013 12:26 PM (D8pR3)

385 Libs/Dems stick together 99% of the time.

Cons/Reps fight each other 99% of the time.

That's why they win and we lose each election.

Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at March 06, 2013 12:27 PM (HDgX3)

386 The final straw was that the revolutionary fervor of
1789 inspired the Haitian Revolt, and that hit too close to home for
Jefferson and his fellow plantation owners.


Posted by: mrp at March 06, 2013 12:23 PM (HjPtV)

Out of ALL the biographies I have read about Jefferson I have never seen that. They do have an interesting writeup about his support and then pull back over the Monticello web site. It reasonable compares to the biographies I have read.
Check it out.

Posted by: Vic at March 06, 2013 12:27 PM (53z96)

387 "Libs/Dems stick together 99% of the time.

Cons/Reps fight each other 99% of the time.

That's why they win and we lose each election."

+1

Posted by: AuthorLMendez at March 06, 2013 12:28 PM (yAor6)

388 "The problem with Americans is that they're all allowed to vote."

Yes and some of them are allowed to vote 15-20 times. We cede elections to fraud time after time and nothing is done. Why? No one died for the right for Shakaykay to have an EBT card and abortion on demand and yet any threat to that is meet with withering fire from every possible direction. Good men, great men, and even bad men died for the right to vote in free and fair elections. If you subvert that, no withering fire ensues, just a couple of billion dollars in campaign money, a Nobel Prize, and the press kissing your feet. Is this a great country or what? Paging Hadji, the comic, maybe he can find a joke in this steaming mess, I can't.

Posted by: Sherry McEvil, Wily Wrepublican Wench at March 06, 2013 12:28 PM (kXoT0)

389 Domestic drones.

Sen. Paul's letter to Brennan: http://wapo.st/YNuVv6


Posted by: 80sBaby at March 06, 2013 12:25 PM (YjDyJ)

Ah, so he has a new crusade. I agree with that one too. See post #9 in the news thread this morning.

Posted by: Vic at March 06, 2013 12:29 PM (53z96)

390 nood up.

Posted by: rickb223 at March 06, 2013 12:30 PM (GFM2b)

391 Together, we could RULE THE WORLD!

...sorry. I don't share well.

/clears shell and chambers new round

Posted by: Brother Cavil, the future Pope Ampersand I at March 06, 2013 12:32 PM (GBXon)

392 246
Personally, I like the idea of encouraging monarchies in lesser developed countries. The aura of nobility would be impossible for the world's billionaires to pass up and their egos would insure that things would improve in the hell holes they would take over.

Posted by: jwest at March 06, 2013 11:23 AM (u2a4R)


The problem with that is the the American Republic would outperform those countries and make them look bad. So the aristocrats and billionaires would look for ways to hamstring this country and cut us down to size.

I think it is very likely that this is precisely what has been going on for the last 100 years of Progressivism.

Posted by: rickl at March 06, 2013 12:32 PM (zoehZ)

393 OT: From the Historian of the US Sate Department:

"The Haitian revolution came to North American shores in the form of a refugee
crisis. In 1793, competing factions battled for control of the then-capital of
St. Domingue, Cap-Français (now Cap-Haïtien.) The fighting and ensuing fire
destroyed much of the capital, and refugees piled into ships anchored in the
harbor. The French navy deposited the refugees in Norfolk, Virginia. Many
refugees also settled in Baltimore, Philadelphia, and New York. These refugees
were predominantly white, though many had brought their slaves with them. The
refugees became involved in émigré politics, hoping to influence U.S. foreign
policy. Anxieties about their actions, along with those of European radicals
also residing in the United States, led to the passage of the Alien and Sedition
Acts. The growing xenophobia, along with temporarily improved political
stability in France and St. Domingue, convinced many of the refugees to return
home."

Posted by: RioBravo at March 06, 2013 12:32 PM (eEfYn)

394 And because those French chicks put out for him.

Yeah, but I told those bitchez to get out my BIDNESS. Nome Seine.

Posted by: Sally Hemmings at March 06, 2013 12:32 PM (6TB1Z)

395 didn't we find out the Hemmings-Jefferson affair was a bit over-hyped? someone refresh my memory

Posted by: AuthorLMendez at March 06, 2013 12:33 PM (yAor6)

396 Posted by: RioBravo at March 06, 2013 12:32 PM (eEfYn)


The alien and sedition acts were passed by Adams because the people opposed to his regime were writing newspapers opposed to it.


That state depart stuff is full of shit and looks like more modern PC.

Posted by: Vic at March 06, 2013 12:34 PM (53z96)

397 389 Ah, so he has a new crusade. I agree with that one too. See post #9 in the news thread this morning.

As do I, though it is just one reason in a long list of objections.

Posted by: 80sBaby at March 06, 2013 12:38 PM (YjDyJ)

398 Politicians as a class are hugely unpopular. We need to focus out fire on them, not the Democrats. What do I mean?

The federal government spent something like 22.7% of GDP in 2011. Our 537 elected representatives (Congress, Senate, Pres and Veep) should have paid 22.7% of their joint spousal gross income in 2011. No deductions, exemptions, preferential treatment for capital gains, munis, etc.-they spent 22.7% of our GDP, and so it's only fair that should pay 22.7% of their income.

Imagine if Romney had said, when the issue of his taxes came up, "If the budget I sign spends 22% of GDP I will pay 22% of my income in taxes, and I will work with Congress to pass a law mandating that they pay at the same rate they spend." That could shift the focus of the tax and spending conversation from "the 1%" to our elected leadership, where it belongs. It may have put pressure on Obama and on members running for Congress to support it. It's not a Democrat or Republican issue-it's a Congressional Accountability issue, and I think people would naturally support it.

Posted by: MartyH at March 06, 2013 12:46 PM (0fbJ+)

399
That state depart stuff is full of shit and looks like more modern PC.


Posted by: Vic at March 06, 2013 12:34 PM (53z96)
---The Sedition Act certainly took advantage of the need or perceived need for the 3 Alien acts to pass a law intended to stifle dissent through the 1800 elections. the Sedition Act didn't work, of course. 'Never let a crisis go to waste.'I believe the Alien Enemies Act is still law.

Posted by: RioBravo at March 06, 2013 12:47 PM (eEfYn)

400 closing out for new thread

Posted by: Vic at March 06, 2013 12:48 PM (53z96)

401 MartyH I approve of the idea. It's worth a shot

Posted by: AuthorLMendez at March 06, 2013 12:48 PM (yAor6)

402 I'm not too good at math, 54, but Reagan appears to have EXPLODED the deficit. the debt the nation accumulated in the 100+ years prior to him was nearly tripled! Again, I may need to find a calculator but it seems you folks are full if sh*t. Oh, right, he money went to things you agree with spending money on so its OK to rack up huge debt you don't plan on paying off. Got it. Have fun at your next circle jerk.

Posted by: TT at March 06, 2013 01:13 PM (ez58q)

403 What are you bitching at me for, dickbreath? You asked what the deficits were, I provided you the answer. Google it yourself next time.

Posted by: toby928© furthers the meme at March 06, 2013 01:21 PM (QupBk)

404 It was an interesting essay in Morning Jolt, worthy of comment, and Drew's reaction to it is also appreciated.

To me, the Obama voters, most of them are who they are. There are going to be 20% liberals who would be waterboarded everyday before they would vote for a non-leftist. Fuhgeddaboudem. No shot.

The problem is that other 32%. Within that cluster, how do conservatives/Rs pick off enough of the low information voters, and the "moderates" who live pretty conservative lives, have normal values and are reasonably intelligent folk for the most part?

I see them as the viable target. We didn't lose in a landslide. We don't need all of them, just enough to craft a majority at the polls.

The LIVs may be a lost cause. But that block of people out there who we call the squishes, some of them can be turned. No idea how, but Reagan managed. Heck, W managed against a sitting veep.

Posted by: RM at March 06, 2013 01:26 PM (/Frlf)

405 FWIW, with the new civility we're all trying to practice: I hate to say it, but it would not make me feel guilty of suppressing dialogue if AoS banned any lib who tries to start a serious discussion dependent on the premise that Reagan "blew a hole in the budget". Truly, people, come on. Please bring more firepower and credibility than that or just don't bother.

Posted by: RM at March 06, 2013 01:32 PM (/Frlf)

406 "Which is more cognitively dissonant? Mindlessly voting for liberal Democrats to keep one's self dependent and thus in poverty? Or mindlessly not voting based upon pet peeves and thereby casting de facto votes for liberal Democrats and thus wrecking the country for one and all?"

I'm a "purist" - I have the same goals in March-April-May that I had in September-October-November. I see no reason to empower rogues and liars who feel totally free to scuttle their election promises in order to win this week's polls.
As for "once and for all", forever never comes. Ask a Communist.

"Washington either didn't know, or he didn't care, so if it's something other than naivete, I'm not sure what it is."

Considering Jefferson and Hamilton did their manuevering by private letters there's little Washington could have known about it. Washington's formal reports from Europe came every 4 months. I believe you will find his correspondence to be "I heard a report you did a bad job, and here's how I want you to go about it, if you're confused." He had to delegate and trust. All world leaders were in that position. It's not like he could telephone London or Paris to find things out.

"Oh, right, he money went to things you agree with spending money on so its OK to rack up huge debt you don't plan on paying off."

The complain about Reagan, during Reagan's Administration, was that he was failing to invest enough in social services, therefore dooming the United States to deep recession in the 1990s. He utterly failed to spend enough as Europe did in terms of GDP%.

When the 1990s came and these Democrats were confronted with a booming US economy and a slumping Europe, this got the deep-six.

Posted by: Chris Balsz at March 06, 2013 01:34 PM (vBZaW)

407 it would not make me feel guilty of suppressing dialogue if AoS banned any lib who tries to start a serious discussion

??? We can't even get the half-wit trolls banned here.

Posted by: toby928© furthers the meme at March 06, 2013 01:50 PM (QupBk)

408 test

Posted by: Bigby's Chinese Finger Traps at March 06, 2013 02:03 PM (3ZtZW)

409 "Considering Jefferson and Hamilton did their manuevering by private letters there's little Washington could have known about it. Washington's formal reports from Europe came every 4 months."

Alexander Hamilton turned the US Customs Service into the most powerful intelligence-gathering agency in the 18th century. His deputies sent him reports that were as close to real-time as the contemporary technology allowed. Washington was the country's spymaster during the American Revolution. The idea that Washington was out of the loop is ludicrous..

Posted by: mrp at March 06, 2013 02:19 PM (HjPtV)

410
The problem is that conservatives like to think that Reagan was elected because people were on board with his ideas.

Reagan got elected the same way as Clinton and Obama - charisma, plain and simple. Obama - unlike the other two -almost missed out on re-election despite that advantage (and the advantage of having anautomatic 10-12% of the vote!)because his resultswere abysmal. Obama's performance has been SO BAD that if he did not have that "racist vote" advantage, he would have been outta there.

It's a mistake to conclude that Obama's continuancerepresents some sort ofideological shift.


Geraghty really nails the Obamabot phenomenon, in that quote, though.

Posted by: Optimizer at March 06, 2013 03:17 PM (Mxt9o)

411 don't trust people?

Just know far too well exactly what to expect.

...at this point, trust (like deserve) has nothing to do with "it".

Posted by: panzernashorn at March 06, 2013 03:48 PM (MhA4j)

412 The problem with the "Establishment Betrayal" that happened when Republicans had power, in 2006 (the last year the Republicans controlled Congress and White House) we had around $250 billion in deficits. And that's with two wars raging. Could it be better? Of course, but if we didn't have to fight Iraq and Afghanistan, we would have had nearly balanced budgets and the Bush tax cuts, and we were still recovering from the bubble economy of the 90's.

I'm not saying there shouldn't be pushback when Republicans leave the reservation, but can we at least be adults and recognize that no political party or President is going to roll in and magically fix everything?

There's certain Republicans I dislike, but I don't buy for a minute that "RINOs" or Republicans less conservative than Jim DeMint are why the country is in dire shape. It's in dire shape because of Obama Democrats having the levers of power.

Posted by: McAdams at March 06, 2013 03:51 PM (+egHA)

413 I propose "Fabian conservatism."

Realize that we aren't just one good election away from getting everything we want passed into law. Realize that it's going to take literally decades of steady progress to fix (or dismantle) the public school system, or reform entitlement programs, or ban abortion, or what have you. Realize that the only way to get our favored policies implemented is to win elections, and given the current electorate, the only way to win enough elections to take power is to run some RINO-ish, moderate, center-right candidates.

Get everyone to realize this and accept this, and then let's roll up our sleeves and get to work for the next fifty years fixing what the Left has been busy trying to destroy for the last fifty years.

Posted by: JohnKerryIsADoucheBag at March 06, 2013 04:50 PM (2T1u7)

414 136
Posted by: Nicholas Kronos at March 06, 2013 10:44 AM (m2IdD) ------- Good answer.

Posted by: Baldy at March 06, 2013 05:29 PM (opS9C)

415 Oh fer cryin out loud.
You can not be a fi-con without being a so-con.
Over 50 of the signers of the declaration of independence would have been considered evangelical Christians today.
Socially liberal policies cost money. Lots of money.

And rinos are just statists with an R behind their name. Anyone who hasn't figured that out by now has less critical thinking skills than a woodpecker.

Posted by: teej at March 06, 2013 06:42 PM (r60DJ)

416 <>

Posted by: General Woundwort at March 08, 2013 05:20 PM (RrD4h)

417
(amp

Posted by: General Woundwort at March 08, 2013 05:32 PM (RrD4h)

418
(

Posted by: General Woundwort at March 08, 2013 05:33 PM (RrD4h)

419
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Posted by: General Woundwort at March 08, 2013 05:34 PM (RrD4h)

420 &

Posted by: General Woundwort at March 08, 2013 05:39 PM (RrD4h)






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