Unworthy: We're Losing the Battle of Ideas to a Bunch of Low-Information Snarking Hipsters

At Legal Insurrection. Give it a read; I have a thought about this.

My thought about this is that people don't like thinking very hard, and this goes quintuple for low-information people. The more you do something, the more skilled you get at it, and the more you like it, which in turn impels you to do more of it. (I'm a champ at self-abuse, for example. When there's a Hall of Fame I'm in on first ballot.)

On the other hand, the less you do of something, the harder it is for you to do it, and the less you wish to do it, which then leads to you becoming, in this context, dumber still.

And one thing that it occurs to me that dumb, low-information people might crave is reassurance for their ego that their dumb, low-information ways are in fact ideal and a perfect response to the world.

No one wants to hear, "Read a book." In fact, people so don't want to hear "Read a book" that "Read a book" is officially an insult.

What people would like to hear -- if printed words and sentences containing dependent clauses (or even parentheticals nested within interrupting clauses set off by em-dashes) make their brains hurt -- is that all this "political self-detemination" and "informed consent of the voter" stuff is all just a bunch of silly hooey for Smarty-Farties Who Probably Can't Get Laid.

And hence, any message that presents an extremely simplified take on things which reassures your average dumb, low-information person that he Knows Everything if He Just Repeats This One Stupid Meme and Laughs At the Right People is naturally going to be a Big Seller in the marketplace of ideas.

Because people without taste or discrimination shop there occasionally too.

And by presenting this idea in a user-friendly form for dumb people (a CHEEZBURGER cat and an LOL) is going to probably have more sway that a dozen Thomas Sowell columns.

Oh, don't get me wrong. I'm not saying Thomas Sowell is unworthy.

I'm saying most people are unworthy, and will seek out entertainments and "politics" that shields themselves from realizing that. Call it the Honey Boo Bourgeoisie.

Something to think about. I don't know what to make of it because I don't like the conclusion this points to -- essentially government by Idiocracy.

"Says here you talk like a fag and your shit's all retarded."

-- Thomas Jefferson to Alexander Hamilton, 1792

Defense of the Self: This is rather obvious, but worth noting, in case it's not:

Once someone has a certain amount of their personal sense of self-worth invested in a proposition -- that is, as soon as someone believes They're Smart because they Read this Funny LOLPolitics thing at Huffington Post -- he will naturally resist (and grow hostile towards) any attempt to disabuse him of the notion.

Because we're no longer talking about some airy abstract idea, of course. We're talking about something that gives him value.

Posted by: Ace at 05:26 PM



Comments

1 OH..... Breads and Circus' win the day.

Posted by: Truck Monkey at February 17, 2013 05:29 PM (jucos)

2 the more information there is--and the easier it is to access it--the less value information has


Marshall McLuhan sorta said this, circa 1968

Posted by: Wally in Walla Walla at February 17, 2013 05:30 PM (Dll6b)

3 Is wanting to be first a sign of the good kind of moron, or the bad kind who wants to avoid thinking? Someone please tell me, because I don't know!

Posted by: Dr. Weevil at February 17, 2013 05:30 PM (XhhZD)

4 >>>the more information there is--and the easier it is to access it--the less value information has

why? I don't follow. Is it because it's easy enough to quickly look up what you don't know, thus reducing the natural Social Cachet that would otherwise flow towards someone who knew it without google?

Posted by: ace at February 17, 2013 05:31 PM (LCRYB)

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Today the U.S. Supreme Court
ruled that Americans have a constitutional right to easy answers. In a 5-4 decision the court said that
thinking is hard. In writing for the majority Justice Sotomayor said ďForcing
the average American to think constitutes cruel and unusual punishment, like
forcing them to eat Brussels sproutsĒ.

Posted by: Prof Twist at February 17, 2013 05:33 PM (sDn9K)

6 the 'hierarchy' of information is increasingly lost on more and more people


the difference between facts and opinions; between entertainment and information.


also, the whole Lack of Moral Absolutes thing: When nothing is wrong, everything is Okay. The highest goal is a weird combo of pleasure and security and stimulation. Freud meets Barnum Bailey

Posted by: Wally in Walla Walla at February 17, 2013 05:33 PM (Dll6b)

7 This fits with Ace's theory on why paper Newsweek was so popular. To paraphrase, it was a physical image of "being smart" people could leave lying around.

People are dumb.

Posted by: Tonic Dog at February 17, 2013 05:34 PM (X/+QT)

8 We've become a nation where the candidates for the Darwin awards decide who gets to lord it over the rest of us, and a majority would not only trade freedom for security, but they'd swap it for a 5 percent discount

Let ... It ... Burn

Posted by: kbdabear at February 17, 2013 05:35 PM (mCvL4)

9
Always been a source of frustration for me, that counterarguments to bumper sticker slogans often require no little effort in setting up, let alone explain.

"Visualize World Peace" should be easy to discredit, but it takes lengthy dissertations regarding human history, anthropology, psychology to even get to the point where you can begin to nullify this stultifying catchphrase.

Had an English teacher tell me just how powerful (for better or for worse) bumper stickers can be: Have you ever seen a car with a 5000 word essay taped to the bumper?

Posted by: Pug Mahon, who digs electrolytes at February 17, 2013 05:35 PM (6rcHp)

10 We may be losing the info war because we like the truth and it is a lot easier to lie. However, the idea is not to win the info war and lose the vote war.


We lost the vote war because of two things, the FSA likes their free shit and we keep nominating "moderate" lackluster candidates who do not inspire people to get off their ass and vote.


And the cause of the latter is the RNC and their desire for moderate candidates. The flood the primaries foe the first three months with blue State liberals.


If they don't change that by 2016 they will lose another conservative voter, me.



Posted by: Vic at February 17, 2013 05:36 PM (53z96)

11
the difference between facts and opinions; between entertainment and information.

In all fairness, the whole "fact/value" distinction is still largely up for grabs philosophically speaking (I finally settled on "fact/value continuum." It seems to fit the problem better.)

Posted by: tsrblke at February 17, 2013 05:36 PM (GaqMa)

12 We live in an age where you have thousands of hours of scholarship at your fingertips, and lolz katz will rule the world.

Posted by: sven10077 at February 17, 2013 05:36 PM (LRFds)

13 After reading the Professor's post I've decided that we're fucked to the power of boned.

Posted by: John P. Squibob at February 17, 2013 05:36 PM (kqqGm)

14 I would addendum (sic?) to this post:

"...And that's why our 24/7 campaign of *rapid-reaction* replies to lib/dem/msm talking points has to include cats and shit like that."

Mockery / humor is very effective. Herp Derp.

Posted by: Tonic Dog at February 17, 2013 05:37 PM (X/+QT)

15 Jeez, Lana, read a book for once in your life!

Posted by: .87c at February 17, 2013 05:37 PM (0Nq7D)

16 proftwist, do NOT copy and paste from Word.

Posted by: Vic at February 17, 2013 05:37 PM (53z96)

17 Ace, you could have said it all by just saying 'JON STEWART.'

Posted by: zsasz at February 17, 2013 05:37 PM (MMC8r)

18 Where is Darwin when you need him?

The working class (and I don't mean that in a negative sense as I am talking about people that want to work and earn their way) can't afford to have many children as they are taxed so heavily. The wealthy have only a few children because it interrupts the Gstaad sking season. The welfare layabouts are granted special privileges for having children, the more the better, and illegal aliens hit the anchor baby lotto for having kids.


Seem to me that Idiocracy has already overtaken the Congress and at least 40 to 50% of the voting public so, what do you expect except "stupid in stupid out" government.

Posted by: Hrothgar at February 17, 2013 05:37 PM (Cnqmv)

19 We're officially a nation of dumbfucks.

Posted by: Captain Hate at February 17, 2013 05:37 PM (nvHEw)

20 No one cares, but the movie I have been looking for on Netflix and hadn't been able to find: Intacto

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0220580/

Posted by: alex at February 17, 2013 05:37 PM (44kMb)

21 because obtaining information used to mean going to a library, using a 'card catalog' and shlepping around long high racks of shelves--and actually reading books


information was limited, and presented in at least some form of hierarchy: Some information had more value than other information.


Increasingly, everything is instantly available and thrown at us, with almost no differentiation between opinion, emotional outbursts, and facts--with little or no contexts for facts


it's anarchy, man... --and yes, nihilism, too.

Posted by: Wally in Walla Walla at February 17, 2013 05:38 PM (Dll6b)

22 Stuff Jefferson Said while bitch slapping Hamilton.

Posted by: Dave in Texas at February 17, 2013 05:38 PM (pUqSw)

23 Politics manages to seep into everything, and on general interest/humor sites like fark and reddit, it's almost always left-wing talking points in the form of advice animals, memes, bumpers ticker type buzz words and catch phrases. LOLZ those dummy repubs blah blah blah. Serious discussions not welcome.

Their ideas distill well into that crap. And if there's one thing people eat up on the internet, it's crap.

Posted by: brak at February 17, 2013 05:39 PM (RBQss)

24 (Drags up from previous thread)

http://tinyurl.com/a6x7gpr (Salem News)

Only liberals are worthy to evaluate life.



"Where the president has gone wrong ó along with those college trustees
contributing to the 39 percent decline in the number of liberal arts
institutions ó is in assuming that Americans need to be trained for a
living rather than educated for life. This is more than a semantic
distinction. It is the difference between reading Shakespeare in college
and mastering accounting."

Posted by: LC LaWedgie at February 17, 2013 05:39 PM (bGlsD)

25 Posted by: Prof Twist at February 17, 2013 05:33 PM

Anyone copyin' and pastin' on this thread will use notepad and not Word. Anyone copyin' and pastin' from Word spend the night in The Barrel

Posted by: Carr the Threadwalker at February 17, 2013 05:39 PM (mCvL4)

26 "What people would like to hear -- if printed words and sentences containing dependent clauses (or even parentheticals nested within interrupting clauses set off by em-dashes) make their brains hurt -- is that all this "political self-detemination" and "informed consent of the voter" stuff is all just a bunch of silly hooey for Smarty-Farties Who Probably Can't Get Laid."

Got some meta-feedback while reading that paragraph. It seems the same idea is totally applicable in the current debate over what to do with the low-information voter. Some people, like Ace, are strategizing, and others are simply complaining about the stupidity of the culture and dismissing all this extra effort and thought reaching those voters will likely entail.

After all, these liberal idiots are just a bunch of hippy-basement dwelling kids mouching off their parents--who needs 'em, right?

Posted by: .87c at February 17, 2013 05:40 PM (0Nq7D)

27 22 Stuff Jefferson Said while bitch slapping pounding Hamilton's hoes.

Posted by: Dave in Texas at February 17, 2013 05:38 PM (pUqSw)



Fixed

Posted by: BCochran1981 - Credible Hulk at February 17, 2013 05:40 PM (GEICT)

Posted by: BCochran1981 - Credible Hulk at February 17, 2013 05:41 PM (GEICT)

29 An-y man, who cuts and pastes from Word IN TO the blog....

spends a night in the box

Posted by: Jones in CO at February 17, 2013 05:41 PM (8sCoq)

30 Kick save and a beaut!!!

Posted by: BCochran1981 - Credible Hulk at February 17, 2013 05:41 PM (GEICT)

31 I know there is usually no clear line between entertainment and information. What's changed is that too many people who are 'information givers' ( professors, media outlets, etc ) are crafting a message which deliberately blurs any distinction and warps everything


.........the best I can do on short notice, while watching John Carter, and feeding several cats....

Posted by: Wally in Walla Walla at February 17, 2013 05:42 PM (Dll6b)

32 Barrel avoided!

Posted by: Pug Mahon, who digs electrolytes at February 17, 2013 05:42 PM (6rcHp)

33 This describes 95% of the commenters on HuffPo, and 99% on DU. You can count the number of neurons they got firing on your fingers and toes and still have a few spare phalanges left over.

Posted by: @PurpAv at February 17, 2013 05:42 PM (1rU+d)

34 Information is free, but the presentation of "mass market information is tightly controlled by the MSM, and only lunatics spend a lot of time on blogs like this one. In fact, based on my perusal of such blogs, I went to sleep early on Nov 6 knowing that Romney would win in a landslide victory because there was no way that rational people could have voted for Obama again (and with a track record yet).

Posted by: Hrothgar at February 17, 2013 05:43 PM (Cnqmv)

Posted by: 31 fluffy flavors at February 17, 2013 05:44 PM (z9HTb)

36 I was just thinking this same thing this morning.

People are indifferent to liberty. More than that, they don't *want* it.

That is why a fascist like Bloomberg can outlaw salt and transfat and soda over a certain size, and people keep re-electing him. Not matter if science or common sense or the basic tenants of human liberty are against him or not.

They simply do not care.

Obama is a horrible president, everyone knows that, but he isn't the worst thing to happen to the country. The worst thing to happen to a country is a populous so complacent as to re-elect his dumb ass.

Posted by: Mrshad at February 17, 2013 05:44 PM (0yAqu)

37 Maybe if we struck them with a mallet, they might see sense, otherwise 'Brawndo has electrolytes'

Posted by: archie goodwin at February 17, 2013 05:46 PM (Jsiw/)

38 Pass the Brawndo.

Posted by: 31 fluffy flavors at February 17, 2013 05:46 PM (z9HTb)

39 Is it because it's easy enough to quickly look up
what you don't know, thus reducing the natural Social Cachet that would
otherwise flow towards someone who knew it without google?

Posted by: ace at February 17, 2013 05:31 PM (LCRYB)


yes

Posted by: Wally in Walla Walla at February 17, 2013 05:46 PM (Dll6b)

40 The "Information Age" specifically emphaticallyisn't.

Posted by: eleven at February 17, 2013 05:46 PM (fsLdt)

41 > I went to sleep early on Nov 6 knowing that Romney would win in a
landslide victory because there was no way that rational people could
have voted for Obama again


we know now that people voted for Obama for irrational reasons-

he's cool!
he cares about me!
George Bush!
Binders!
47% of something!
Magic underpants!


People are casting the most important vote in their lives based on the most ridiculous criteria. I don't know how you reverse that.

Posted by: Jones in CO at February 17, 2013 05:46 PM (8sCoq)

42 You need a snark site for getting your ideas out using the twin ammunition of envy and un-coolness.

For the former, someone needs to get serious about going after Elizabeth Warren and other college profs who get paid exorbitant amounts. I am still reeling over her getting paid over 300 grand for ONE class. Student loans paid for a lot of her salary.

For the latter, let's discuss Rosa DeLaurio. Enough said. Do not make fun of her looks. Make fun of her clothes and ask why Michelle doesn't lend her a hand.

At te same time, you need to find handsome guys and beautiful gals who are doing interesting things which happen to be more conservative. This means finding Olympic athletes who work hard for years (teaching delayed gratification) and students who were nerds andblossom when they graduate, becoming the swans from ugly ducklings.

And lots of cat and dog pictures, with horses and hamsters as well.

Cute always sells. I have discovered this selling on eBay.

Posted by: Miss Marple at February 17, 2013 05:46 PM (GoIUi)

43
I tried to go low information for a few months but the damn information kept drawing me back in. I'm now try to get to a I don't care anymore, but that's doesn't seem to be working either.

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at February 17, 2013 05:46 PM (p/cQy)

44 emphatically isn't

Posted by: eleven at February 17, 2013 05:46 PM (fsLdt)

45 I suck at commenting, therefore I deserve to fund the idiocracy.

Posted by: fluffy at February 17, 2013 05:47 PM (z9HTb)

46 The Barrel is beckoning.

Posted by: Tobacco Road at February 17, 2013 05:47 PM (4Mv1T)

47 The ones who bother me the most aren't the "dumb and proud of it" bunch, but the people who are intelligent and educated - and can't see through Obama. My liberal boss and I have lots of interests in common - we like the same old movies and novels. She's a good boss, but she believes everything she reads in the NY Times. (The national debt? Hey, Paul Krugman says there is no problem, so she's looking forward to a cozy retirement in a couple of years, because Obama's gonna make everything all better.) I know doctors who think the same way. They're certainly not "low info" bozos and they're not hard-core lefties. They simply don't realize they are being bamboozled by the left.

Posted by: Donna V. at February 17, 2013 05:47 PM (BStAJ)

48 This is why this blog, and other humorous right-wing blogs are vital. #1 podcast Adam Carolla, very, very valuable. (Sure, he's not very conservative, but he constantly pushed "get your shit together" and pro-business ideas...these are INVALUABLE in today's "give me stuff" society.)

Posted by: sexypig at February 17, 2013 05:48 PM (dZQh7)

49 Same things applies to us with concerning that feedback loop.

You do more what you already do, it becomes easier and more natural. We haven't engaged the culture (which is, admittedly, a inane and dumb culture in many ways) and so it is difficult and unnatural as we try to do so now.

Posted by: .87c at February 17, 2013 05:48 PM (0Nq7D)

50
You know, I blame the false appeals to authority.
Why does Fauxahontis get so much liberal love. Because she's supposedly an "expert" in this. Credentialed and everything.
Problem is of course, as the Good professor showed in a linked post (about her "heroisms" as he put it, scare quotes included IIRC) she knows nothing about how the system actually functions or about the consequences of what she's demanding.
Yet talk to any libtard (I do every day.) They'll start their sentence with "but Elizabeth Warren says..." or "but Paul Krugman says..." as if those fuckwads have a monopoly on learning.

Break the notion that expert authorities exist, return to the idea that knowledge is diffuse and maybe we start to solve this. At the very least we have to break the idea that only liberals are experts.

Hell, I'm one of the most edumacated people you'll find when it comes to broad implications of Healthcare delivery, reform, concerns ect. (that being the purpose of my freaking degree.) Yet good luck getting a liberal to accept my level of expertise in a conversation and rationally engage my arguments. They'll say "but Zeke Emmanuel says...." (BTW, Zeke's an unreflective partisan tool, but I don't expect much else from Rahm's brother.)

Posted by: tsrblke at February 17, 2013 05:48 PM (GaqMa)

51 Ace, Lena Dunham is dumb, ugly, (with and without clothes) writes lame dialogue for scripts with zero believability and she is the voice of the 20 something women.

Posted by: Laquisha (vote 15 x for Barrack Obama) Johnson at February 17, 2013 05:49 PM (ZQSV4)

52
Heh. I don't know bout all that other stuff, but maybeJefferson had a valid point when he said that to Hamilton.

Posted by: t-dubyah-d at February 17, 2013 05:49 PM (u6lBN)

53 Lena Dunham is Honey Boo Boo all grown up.

Posted by: Laquisha (vote 15 x for Barrack Obama) Johnson at February 17, 2013 05:49 PM (ZQSV4)

54 I know doctors who think the same way. They're certainly not "low info" bozos and they're not hard-core lefties.


Even most cerebral people don't think a lot concerning politics.

Posted by: fluffy at February 17, 2013 05:50 PM (z9HTb)

55 Ace, I'd throw the following out there for thought:

Yes, low-information voters do seek the shortest information path possible, but it's the shortest path necessary to confirm their worldview. Even the lowI voter comes in with a worldview bias.

In turn, the increase in means of communication improves the likelihood that the Low-I voter will see information confirming their worldview bias.

We won't beat this with the read a book strategy. We can by saying were going to do something for a well-defined reason, doing it, and showing concrete benefits that no amount of worldview bias can refute. Remember: many people, in an era with much lower information reach, still believed the MSM during Reagan's recovery.

Posted by: Kevin in ABQ at February 17, 2013 05:51 PM (GR1Sk)

56
Somebody wrote some stupid article about the importance of seeing Lena Dunham naked. I guess that is leftard high information thinking.

Posted by: waldo at February 17, 2013 05:51 PM (6J6x7)

57 We've got autospell, autocomplete, Siri, apps that find a coffeeshop and finds the shitter when you get there. You push a button to unlock the car and push a button to start the car. You have traction control and antilock braking and even automatic braking in some higher end models.

People are inundated with advertising and given news bites by "experts" in glasses who read big words off a teleprompter. We are given juvenile entertainment as "must see TV" that has long run out of imagination and yet still feels they must throw in a political "everyone knows" meme.

Then we elect total mediocrities who people actually think will solve any problem so we won't have to think about it.

We're in a society where no one feels anyone HAS to think about it, that's what we have "experts" and "leaders" for. The financial crisis of 2008 was long in coming, many said it was coming, but who the hell wants to listen when your McJob is enough to put zero dollars down on a mortgage and then use your house as an ATM because the "experts" told you your home's value could NEVER drop and would ALWAYS skyrocket. Why save for that vacation to Disneyland when you could just fill out a form online and have an EZ Loan dropped in your checking account the next day.

When the shit hits the fan for real, it'll be UNEXPECTED because "no one saw it coming"

And it'll all be blamed on Bush or "greedy Republicans" because it's far easier than blaming yourself for being an idiot and a sucker

Let ... It ... Burn

Posted by: kbdabear at February 17, 2013 05:51 PM (mCvL4)

58 This is what I call the "Facebook Effect", Ace. Twitter stuff is the same deal..

This is what people do nowadays to get their info..they read something someone says, (someone they may not even know very well) then "Like" it.. click a button and you have automatically signed on to the brainy thoughts of another.. and reinforces in you that that makes sense.. because, well, you "approved/liked" it!

Then someone else "likes" it and the snowball is rolling. And if someone likes YOU, well hey, there's your reinforcement. It's so fucking shallow it's ridiculous. But this is what passes for deep thinking these days. We are so fucking boned.

Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry at February 17, 2013 05:52 PM (UTq/I)

59 Related -- FoxNews ratings are down 15% in the younger demographics. It's always skewed older. But it's skewing more.

The "FoxNews is icky/lame/racist/retarded" memes are having an effect on the younger generation.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at February 17, 2013 05:52 PM (ZPrif)

60 The Dumbening of America proceeds apace. But we could do better at encapsulating our messages in forms dumb people can understand.

Message: "The Second Amendment is essential to the preservation of liberty. Every Government will tend toward tyranny in the long run, and an armed and independent citizenry is a prophylactic against that eventuality."

Version dumb people can understand: "Self-Defense is a human right."

Posted by: Gregory of Yardale at February 17, 2013 05:53 PM (azHfB)

61 Here's an idea that either has or has not been discussed:


we need to crash the Left's blogs

understand I don't mean hack and take down- I mean we have to register on their sites and comment- let's piss in their sandbox

Posted by: Jones in CO at February 17, 2013 05:53 PM (8sCoq)

62 I've been reading DeLong and Krugman and that Ezra Klein guy and some of those other guys for the last year or so. They are just better than our pundits. I don't think they're right, but they are better at framing and finding information to support their framing and absolutely devastating at rhetorically supporting that framing.

We have K Lo.

Posted by: JohnW at February 17, 2013 05:54 PM (0vtx1)

63 This website is 80-98% filled with stuff for the low information voter on the right, depending on the week. I think the right has plenty of stuff for low information voters in general, I think the real difference is that it only gets out to those already on the right, for the most part. This ties in, of course, to the left wing dominance of the MSM.

Posted by: LT Kettch at February 17, 2013 05:54 PM (y8BES)

64 and any time some leftard makes some BS statement, answer


"Prove it"

Posted by: Jones in CO at February 17, 2013 05:55 PM (8sCoq)

65 They're certainly not "low info" bozos and they're not hard-core lefties. They simply don't realize they are being bamboozled by the left.
Posted by: Donna V. at February 17, 2013 05:47 PM (BStAJ)


It's worse than that: I sincerely believe that they WANT to stay bamboozled. They are extraordinarily resistant to information that might cause the slightest doubt about the narrative. Not only will they shun any such info, but always refuse to provide any kind of evidence that backs up their assertions. Every single lefty friend, acquaintance and family member I have argued with has exhibited this behavior, each and every time. About every single subject concerning politics.

Posted by: model_1066 at February 17, 2013 05:55 PM (7xPCu)

66 Do Moonies ever divorce in large groups, too?

Posted by: epobirs at February 17, 2013 05:55 PM (kcfmt)

67 >>>We won't beat this with the read a book strategy. We can by saying were going to do something for a well-defined reason, doing it, and showing concrete benefits that no amount of worldview bias can refute.

I've been trying an alternative shortcut strategy. If you notice, I'm always knocking liberals on an intellectual level now. My theory is there is no sense knocking them on morality (they don't value that, so the attempted insult fails) but they do have a great deal of self-worth wrapped up in the idea that They're Smart because They Pretend to Laugh at Jon Stewart.

Okay, what if we take that away? What if we strip away the ego-boosting feature of liberalism?

What if we always call it what it is -- a philosophy of fools and soft thinkers?

Posted by: ace at February 17, 2013 05:55 PM (LCRYB)

68 >This website is 80-98% filled with stuff for the low information voter on the right, depending on the week.


concern noted

Posted by: Jones in CO at February 17, 2013 05:55 PM (8sCoq)

69
"Paul Ryan has been the author of the budget to kill Medicare . . . the
embrace of the death of Medicare is something that is surprising,"


"He's a nice person, I don't really know him well because I've never been to the gym."

Posted by: San Fran Nan at February 17, 2013 05:56 PM (bGlsD)

70 The low info/high access effect is operating at peak efficiency with Chris Dorner, American Folk Hero.

The Ballad of Chris Dorner

or

Folk Song for an American Hero



http://tinyurl.com/aadxls9


Posted by: naturalfake at February 17, 2013 05:57 PM (G9qZk)

71 #9

Whenever I try to 'Visualize World Peace,' all I can come up with is a pre-emptive nuclear strike.

Posted by: epobirs at February 17, 2013 05:57 PM (kcfmt)

72 Jon Stewart was a frat boy at Band Geek U (William & Mary). Odd that he has become the voice of the Left.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at February 17, 2013 05:57 PM (ZPrif)

73 I pass it off to a different pathology...

The Left believes in short phrases, even if they are patently untrue.

All Men are NOT created Equal... and it certainly does not mean we are all the SAME, as the Left tries to push.

The Pen is NOT mightier than the Sword... the Sword (violence) is the final arbitrator... because there is a segment of humanity which will always push things to a violent level... and then the Pen looses.

And Perception is NOT reality... and reality will Bitch Slap you upside the head if you act on your 'perception', when it flies in the face of reality.

The problem is that WE... those who do not have this pathology of Jingoism, do not even try to disuade those who parrot patently untrue things....

Posted by: Romeo13 at February 17, 2013 05:58 PM (lZBBB)

74
@60. Exactly why we must preserve the Second Amendment. But it's the one most under fire, the one that the progressives want to go away. The thing we have to remember is that the American Revolution happened despite at least two-thirds of the Colonists being against it.

Well, shit.

I'm tired. How long does this argument have to go on? *reaches for the Evan Williams*

Posted by: Pug Mahon, who digs electrolytes at February 17, 2013 05:58 PM (6rcHp)

75 Analyses I've seen show that, at most, there are marginal differences in the average IQ of Democrat and Republican voters, certainly within the margin of error.

Combine that with the fact that the Democrats get the majority of the really stupid vote and it tells me that the Republican side of the voting spectrum probably has less variance in its IQ, whereas the Democrats have "evil genius" types like Axelrod leading a bunch of complete idiots, so I can certainly see this analysis of low-info voters playing out as Legal Insurrection posits. There are a lot of people on the GOP side who are just as intelligent as anyone on the Left, but lack the desire to micromanage people's lives or manipulate people's emotions like those of similar intelligence on the Left, which means that, in some sense, it boils down to character, which probably isn't a surprise given the nature of politics.

Posted by: BS Inc. at February 17, 2013 05:58 PM (bcBOj)

76 We have a big segment of the voters that think watching Stewart and Colbert is 'The News.' They're the ones who clap for the 'clapper humor.' They know that them Republicans are a bunch of inbred gun-lovin' hicks and they just loooooooves to laff at 'em.

They take Stewart's edited, selected spin and incorporate it into their self-congratulatory worldview.

Conservatives need to compete on that level. But when we do, it comes off as shit like the 'Half-Hour News Hour,' because we're making a tract, not entertainment.

Posted by: zsasz at February 17, 2013 05:59 PM (MMC8r)

77 New Washington State bill to ban semi-automatics contains language that allows warrantless police inspections and searches of homes. Seattle Times reported yesterday. Language was hidden and obfuscated in bill. When called on it, authors claim it was a mistake.

Posted by: pat at February 17, 2013 05:59 PM (vY2MW)

78 We need to break the EC vote away from being tied to the number of Senate and House seats. Each state gets 1 EC vote per 200k people lets say. And then we go with proportional. So if the R candidate only get 35% in New York state, still gets 35% of the EC vote, and if its a fractional vote 0.51 and up round up.

The Founding Fathers did not trust the voters to elect a President. And boy have they been proven right.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at February 17, 2013 05:59 PM (7tbEC)

79 58 This is what I call the "Facebook Effect", Ace. Twitter stuff is the same deal..

Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry at February 17, 2013 05:52 PM (UTq/I)
Exactly! That is why he who controls the narrative , wins. If Facebook & Twitter is what gets people's attention, then that's where we belong. Ace is already working furiously and vocally on twitter.. who else is?

Posted by: RondinellaMamma at February 17, 2013 06:00 PM (53riN)

80 I'm a bit surprised Obama had been able to get away with the lie that he was a law school professor. No he wasn't. He was a lecturer -- one step above the janitor in academia.

And it's a lie he cared about. Because he wanted to be thought of as as smart as a prof. He just wasn't able to actually, you know, do any original legal research or writing. Which is kinda necessary.

He's a "scholar" who's never produced a page of scholarship.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at February 17, 2013 06:00 PM (ZPrif)

81 Have to point out that Hamilton, while being an ass, was much, much, much smarter than Jefferson. Hamilton probably would not have been a good President, though.

Posted by: Jack Burton Mercer at February 17, 2013 06:00 PM (7NgYX)

82 What if we always call it what it is -- a philosophy of fools and soft thinkers?

Posted by: ace at February 17, 2013 05:55 PM (LCRYB)

I like to insult leftys by asking them that if they're so smart, how come their beliefs have to be distilled down to a simpleminded sound bite or bumpersticker? Does it help their idiotic protests if their slogan-of-the-week rhymes, because it's easier to remember? For example 'Bush lied, people died'.

Posted by: model_1066 at February 17, 2013 06:00 PM (7xPCu)

83 BGee...100 years of public skooling and you are surprised?

Deal with monkeys, you throw peanuts.

Bread and circuses. The mob IS Rome.

But we let in the queers at CPAC....let Rove gut the Tea Party... put all our hopes on a whitebread Cuban to win over commie Latinos... and ALL WILL BE WELL....

PUT YOUR TRUST IN MEGAN MCCAIN. She will rebrand the GOP until it meets the needs of the 53% socialist public

Posted by: Low Info Voter at February 17, 2013 06:02 PM (hZeRK)

84 Very well said, Ace. I've been saying something similar, especially the last bit about opinions being a part of self. "Insult my opinions and you insult me."

Posted by: BeckoningChasm at February 17, 2013 06:02 PM (xjpRj)

85 I like what you said.

Not sure what that says about me, but...

I'm OLD enough to recall that all university classes required us to back up what we stated with FACTS and multiple references from REAL BOOKS. Many papers had to have outlines attached to our research papers showing how we LOGICALLY walked through our premise with points and giving substantive support for each and every point. We even had to demonstrate transition sentences between our points. This was done TO US to help us learn how to think critically. That is what university was for... not to learn stuff, but to learn how to think about stuff. Metacognizance! I grieve what has happened to our ways of discourse, whether in our halls of academia or what we view as journalism. *sigh*

Posted by: Cathyh at February 17, 2013 06:03 PM (wGDg9)

86 The Left prides themselves on being smarter and morally superior. I think you can attack their morality. Look how defensive they get about teacher's unions in poor, black schools. That hits a nerve for them.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at February 17, 2013 06:04 PM (ZPrif)

87 Everything that's wrong with low information voters, I discovered by reading Slate.

Posted by: Colorado Alex at February 17, 2013 06:04 PM (hpDVh)

88 I think it boils down to this: Leftys suffer from the conceited delusion that good intentions are all that matters for them to feel superior to others. They don't accept that good intentions don't always produce good ideas, that good ideas don't always produce good plans, and even plans that are good don't always produce good results. They are uninterested in whether or not their policies help or hurt, or why they fail as they usually do...as long as they believe that those policies are created with intentions that are sufficiently pure, which of course only they have.

Posted by: model_1066 at February 17, 2013 06:05 PM (7xPCu)

89 Look on the bright side. Maker's Mark bourbon has abandoned its plan to dilute its product.

Posted by: Navybrat at February 17, 2013 06:05 PM (I3elR)

90 The lefty BIL and SIL that I have are fairly intelligent people about most things. But their problem is that they believe everything that the MFM says and they worship Democrats and believe everything they say as well.


SIL firmly believes that it was banker and wall street greed that caused the collapse. This even though she works as an executive with BOA.


I have not been able to wrap myself up in that one.

Posted by: Vic at February 17, 2013 06:05 PM (53z96)

91 The Left are spittle-flecked bigots screaming "sinner" at anybody who disagrees with them. They claim they aren't religious zealots, but they constantly act like they are.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at February 17, 2013 06:05 PM (ZPrif)

92 "76
We have a big segment of the voters that think watching Stewart and
Colbert is 'The News.' They're the ones who clap for the 'clapper
humor.' They know that them Republicans are a bunch of inbred
gun-lovin' hicks and they just loooooooves to laff at 'em.



They take Stewart's edited, selected spin and incorporate it into their self-congratulatory worldview.



Conservatives need to compete on that level. But when we do, it
comes off as shit like the 'Half-Hour News Hour,' because we're making a
tract, not entertainment.

Posted by: zsasz at February 17, 2013 05:59 PM (MMC8r)"
Part of the "problem" is that, for liberals, I have read that their favorite form of entertainment is "making fun of conservatives", i.e. something destructive, whereas for conservatives, their favorite form of entertainment is college football, i.e. something constructive and having relatively little to do with politics. When your opponents' favorite pastime is making fun of you and you'd rather be doing something other than making fun of him, the discourse becomes skewed.

Posted by: BS Inc. at February 17, 2013 06:05 PM (bcBOj)

93 This we be the way it is, until Judgement Day. The strong, the smart, and the lucky will survive, while the folks you talk about above will die writhing in flaming agony... or if they're lucky in an instant of white-hot light.

Posted by: A loaf of butter, a stick of bread at February 17, 2013 06:06 PM (q1OL0)

94 (The national debt? Hey, Paul Krugman says there is no problem, so she's looking forward to a cozy retirement in a couple of years, because Obama's gonna make everything all better.)

Tell her Krugman also advised Enron.

Posted by: zsasz at February 17, 2013 06:06 PM (MMC8r)

95 Lefties I know get most upset with I attack their supposed "good intentions".

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at February 17, 2013 06:06 PM (ZPrif)

96 #20

http://tinyurl.com/b2y8mkr

With English subtitles.

Posted by: epobirs at February 17, 2013 06:07 PM (kcfmt)

97 Have to point out that Hamilton, while being an ass, was much, much, much smarter than Jefferson.


Bull shit

Posted by: Vic at February 17, 2013 06:07 PM (53z96)

98 The Founding Fathers did not trust the voters to elect a President. And boy have they been proven right.


Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at February 17, 2013 05:59 PM (7tbEC)


Easier Constitutional Fix... have each Congresional District be a mini election, with the EC vote going to who wins the district.... and whoever wins the most votes in the State gets the two votes for the Senators...

Make it a real National Election... not just the Candidates spending time in a very few States, taking the rest of the country for granted...

Crap... here in California? all of the sudden about 1/3 of the electoral votes are distinctly possible for a Republican... and thats more Electoral votes than a lot of States have.

Posted by: Romeo13 at February 17, 2013 06:07 PM (lZBBB)

99
CNN started HEADLINE NEWS NETWORK waybackwhen for a reason

Now we know why.


Posted by: soothsayer at February 17, 2013 06:07 PM (vyPsz)

100 >Look on the bright side. Maker's Mark bourbon has abandoned its plan to dilute its product.

Posted by: Navybrat at February 17, 2013 06:05 PM (I3elR)


talk about listening to your constituency!
(watch 'em do it anyway, betting no one can tell)

Posted by: Jones in CO at February 17, 2013 06:08 PM (8sCoq)

101 #83: Public schools were once very good at providing basic education. If you want to know why they are not good at that now, look to the culture around them.

I think that the Grosse Pointe Public Schools and the Farmington Public Schools are still good at that. Detroit Public Schools, not so much.

Posted by: Mikey NTH - Pirate Scum of Umbar at February 17, 2013 06:08 PM (gmoEG)

102 The enablers are lined up against the wall first.

Posted by: Jmel at February 17, 2013 06:08 PM (9tSXa)

103 what has changed is replacing politics with fashion. The point is not what party is right, has better ideas, or even delivers the better results. The point is what party has the more popular people and the better 'parties' to which you want to be invited. To be invited into the good parties, you have to show your allegiance to that party's slogans, not only accepting it but broadcasting your support to others and defending it from attack and attacking those who disagree, and most of all casting the right votes when it counts. The point is not to perform these to advance politics, but merely to be admitted into the right group and be able to enjoy admission to the fun parties. What happened is that we replaced politics with partying. Governing is not something to be concerned about, self-government takes a new meaning: the government governs itself. What is important is that being accepted in the popular groups.

It is not low-information, but instead a belief that government is automated like everything else is so why bother thinking about it at all?

Posted by: drives a smart at February 17, 2013 06:09 PM (FAwGF)

104 I think the sine qua non of this was gay marriage.

Holy hoo, people couldn't stop talking about how all for gay marriage they were. And the repeal of DADT as well.

Liberalism is a religion and they are just making displays of piety. Let's ignore the fact that DADT subjected young gay men to the draft (didn't think about that one, did ya geniuses?) or that gays under the age of 60 don't want to get married and probably would be very unhappy with social pressure to do so.

What was more important was to declare to the world (especially via Facebook) how you are on board with all the bien pensants that make you enlightened.

And, of course, the government has allowed us to outsource compassion. We don't have to be personally compassionate, we just have to believe that other people should be taxed so as to provide compassion to other people who we would never associate with personally.

Posted by: AmishDude at February 17, 2013 06:10 PM (xSegX)

105 It is not low-information, but instead a belief that government is automated like everything else is so why bother thinking about it at all?


Posted by: drives a smart at February 17, 2013 06:09 PM (FAwGF)


That, and the idea of you are powerless to change it... so why try....

Look at Obamacare... Its still unpopular...yet somehow, even after it being a major issue in an election.. and after all the calls to Congress critters... it still passed AFTER the election...

Posted by: Romeo13 at February 17, 2013 06:11 PM (lZBBB)

106
You combat this problem with a three-pronged approach.

1. Pith
2. Pith
3. Pith

Posted by: soothsayer at February 17, 2013 06:12 PM (yhYn1)

107 This describes 95% of the commenters on HuffPo, and
99% on DU. You can count the number of neurons they got firing on your
fingers and toes and still have a few spare phalanges left over.


Posted by: @PurpAv at February 17, 2013 05:42 PM (1rU+d)

He's an evil Falangist h8tr!!!111ty!

Posted by: Low-info leftard at February 17, 2013 06:12 PM (673KB)

108 This all goes back to the idea that conservatism has lost the mass entertainment media. When men in general and fathers in particular are portrayed as simpletons, losers, man-children, or beta males cowering under the rule of their long suffering and intellectually superior wife, then that is the perception that people start to take with them into the real world. When the real world doesn't conform, the perception then is reinforced by the left's talking points about how women are discriminated against.

Likewise, when was the last time that a hard working and successful businessman was portrayed in a positive light?

We need to start fighting back in entertainment. One possible way would be to use the internet and the increasingly cheap but capable recording equipment to produce shows with conservative themes and distribute them directly to consumers.

Posted by: Colorado Alex at February 17, 2013 06:12 PM (hpDVh)

109 yeah, what Amish Dude said

Posted by: Wally in Walla Walla, not arguing about the Civil War at February 17, 2013 06:13 PM (Dll6b)

110 Okay, what if we take that away? What if we strip away the ego-boosting feature of liberalism?

What if we always call it what it is -- a philosophy of fools and soft thinkers?


Ahem.

Posted by: AmishDude, what is always bashing law schools and the wussmanities for a reason, people at February 17, 2013 06:13 PM (xSegX)

111 Yeah, well, we will continue to lose because the people with money and juice to spare don't see a value in pop culture stuff or "speaking to the idiots". I'm a libertarian. I run a film and entertainment company. All of my stuff skews politically right, but subtly in the same way that lefty political stuff isn't always obviously political. Outside of Ace here, no other conservative blogs helped promote my last film. Too busy running rants defending Todd Akin or discussing Karl Rove's next move I guess. When raising money, only leftists want to invest. The righties are too busy buying commercials at 4 AM for Mitt Romney or paying for the Daily Caller. Sorry, but these guys are going to continue winning because they understand the media. Just that simple.

Posted by: Leigh Scott at February 17, 2013 06:14 PM (BRhVY)

112 Liberalism is a religion and they are just making displays of piety.

^^^THIS

Anything contradicting accepted dogma is simply blanked out.

Posted by: @PurpAv at February 17, 2013 06:14 PM (1rU+d)

113 Democrats have done with help from some Republicans have effectively demonized the GOP in the minds of many voters.

Posted by: Infinite Wisdom at February 17, 2013 06:14 PM (puDKn)

114 Because we're no longer talking about some airy abstract idea, of course. We're talking about something that gives him value.

Insecurity, a common trait of libs , is the lack of self confidence. The reason that they derive self importance from a Huffpo "BushHitlerLOL" post and defend it like it is their firstborn child that is that they are empty, and void people who live unexamined lives. They full of public school self esteem and self approval and have ALWAYS been cushioned from any failure. That pitiful , sanctimonious shared chuckle at those stupid Pubbies is the only membership qualification for the lib club.

Thinking not required or desired.

Darkness is the absence of light. Liberalism isn't the presence of
stupidity as much as it is is the absence of humanity's positive ideals.

Great post,Ace.

Posted by: T.Hunter at February 17, 2013 06:14 PM (EZl54)

115 People are simply being shielded from experiencing the pain of the consequences of their own idiocy. In this manner we get taxes with held from our paychecks. If we all had to write a check to the government (which I as a self employed person do, BTW) things might be different. Likewise having taxes due as far away as possible from election day. This list could go on and on.

Posted by: Navybrat at February 17, 2013 06:15 PM (I3elR)

116 I also think the language of Disgust is important.
That hits an emotional chord with people. They don't want to be associated with something that is Disgusting. Humans instinctively recoil from that.

It's effective. Label what you don't like as something that is Disgusting and Diseased.

We are being Otherized.

We should Otherize back.

Phrases like -- Disgusting Democrats. Dirtbag Democrats. Despicable Democrats.

References to cockroaches, rats, vermin. Carriers of disease.

It's all to short-circuit the brain and activate the disgust reflex.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at February 17, 2013 06:15 PM (ZPrif)

117
104 Yes, AmishDude, I was thinking the same thing. It's not just about people wanting to feel smart. They want to feel significant, like they are doing some great moral thing, without actually having to do it. So the left claims they are more compassionate (towards gays, blacks, women, animals, the environment, etc.) so voters feel morally superior for voting for them. I like the way you put it - outsourcing compassion to government. Somehow, we need to turn their arguments on their head and show how higher taxes, unemployment, government programs are LESS compassionate and keep people enslaved.

Posted by: Liberty Lover at February 17, 2013 06:15 PM (eQ4W/)

118
The Dem's are the Party of gun control.
The Dem's are the Party of higher taxes.
The Dem's are the Party of bigger government and more people on welfare and food stamps.
If Romney and his establishment buddies had just repeated this over and over they would have walked into the White House. Instead, the R establishment and well compnsated campaign advisors decided to be nice guys (who could do the same job, only better!)and got their asses kicked by a guy who ran on "evil rich guy won't pay for your birth control!".
Hell, the Donkeys don't even deny the gun control, higher taxes, and bigger gubment anymore, they brag about it.

Posted by: might-e wight-e at February 17, 2013 06:15 PM (VDovR)

119 I've thought it would make for an interesting exercise to go out and ask random assholes take a short quiz on some part of an issue.

For example, set up a board and magnet with a chart of the taxes paid by each 20% set of the public. Upper 20%, second 20%, Mid 20%, etc.

Ask the random a-holes to match the percentage of the total receipts to the respective quintile. Invariably most will not even come close to the actual %'s.

It would be all too tempting to then proceed to grill the a-hole on where he gets his info and why he should vote despite being a know-nothing a-hole.

It would be great to have a series of these emphasizing that LIVs should be fucking embarrassed at their ignorance.

"Are you an ignorant M-Fer? DON'T VOTE!"

Posted by: weft cut-loop at February 17, 2013 06:15 PM (Ipj15)

120 @114 They are

Posted by: T.Hunter at February 17, 2013 06:16 PM (EZl54)

121
You're selling a brand.

Attracting votes today goes something like this:

Okay, you have 30 seconds to convince me why I should vote for the Republican. Go!

If you start by explaining shit the Founders said and Federalism and why the minimum wage kills jobs I'm going to just walk away before you put me to sleep.

Posted by: soothsayer at February 17, 2013 06:17 PM (DlaLh)

122 "It's worse than that: I sincerely believe that they WANT to stay bamboozled."

Yes. What is the most comfortable position: to be confronted with DOOM! on a daily basis or to think, like my boss does, that she'll be able to retire comfortably, that America will be be just as it has always been, except with 1000% more rights for teh gheys, and womyn and the uninsured and those poor people in the inner city that she never sees in her lily white 'burb? I know a lot of middle-class, middle-aged libs and they don't really think their way of life is threatened. To fact the facts, like we do, is to find yourself frequently terrified and depressed. Being a conservative is uncomfortable these days, not just because we're not cool, but because it requires dealing with brutal realities. Nobody wanted to hear Paul Ryan's math. Not even many people who are very smart in their own fields.

Posted by: Donna V. at February 17, 2013 06:17 PM (BStAJ)

123 Part of the "problem" is that, for liberals, I have read that their favorite form of entertainment is "making fun of conservatives", i.e. something destructive, whereas for conservatives, their favorite form of entertainment is college football, i.e. something constructive and having relatively little to do with politics.
Posted by: BS Inc. at February 17, 2013 06:05 PM (bcBOj)
-----

This is actually the entire problem. Their goal 100% of the time is to destroy us because we're evil. Our goal is to just get them to shut up and leave us alone. We cannot make their goal our goal because to do that would mean acting like an asshole 24/7 and not even getting paid for it. We should've torched the universities years ago like Strepsiades did.

Posted by: JeremiadBullfrog at February 17, 2013 06:18 PM (Y5I9o)

124 If that shiny verbal object of yours has more than two sentences and doesn't have at least one f-bomb in it, you can forget it. We are the ADD generation.

Posted by: Hipster Douchebags at February 17, 2013 06:18 PM (vbh31)

125 Sorry, but these guys are going to continue winning because they understand the media. Just that simple.
Posted by: Leigh Scott


You'd be a lot more convincing if you knew how to post a link that works.

Posted by: waldo at February 17, 2013 06:18 PM (6J6x7)

126 @125 Long time listener, first time caller.

Posted by: Leigh Scott at February 17, 2013 06:19 PM (BRhVY)

127 Also remember that for a lot of people, being a liberal is just easier. You don't have to know any history... you don't need to know what The Federalist Papers are, except you know they're not for rolling doobies.

All you have to do is feel. Be outraged! CARE!!

PEOPLE ARE DYING is your go-to argument

Posted by: Jones in CO at February 17, 2013 06:20 PM (8sCoq)

128 Good one, Ace.

I live in a college town and am surrounded by hipster douchebags. There is no way to reach these people. You cant engage them in dialogue bc they claim the high road. we are beneath them and not worthy of their time and attention.

We lost this battle when we seced the media and entertainment industry to leftists

Posted by: L, elle at February 17, 2013 06:20 PM (0PiQ4)

129 The Founding Fathers knew we would end up ruled by fools and scoundrels. That is ALWAYS what happens. They had hoped that by creating a Constitution limiting the power of the government that it wouldn't matter so much. But we shitcanned that document when FDR was president.

I am thinking of writing a post on my site about how conformist this generation of kids is and how short their attention span is. Even at the Olympics, when these supremely talented athletes were at the pinnacle of their success, they couldn't stop and take it all in. They were standing there in a line at the awards ceremony checking their little electronic devices and not looking up.

Even this generation's political movements are completely conformist and shallow. OWS is nothing if not a creature of the status quo and demanding more of the same. There has never been a less rebellious generation in the history of the Republic... and they don't even realize it.

Posted by: Voluble at February 17, 2013 06:20 PM (qYvEa)

130 what has changed is replacing politics with fashion.

Posted by: drives a smart at February 17, 2013 06:09 PM (FAwGF)


Got it. Nutshell.

And those ribbons are just symbolic of the symbolism of politics as fashion.

Posted by: AmishDude at February 17, 2013 06:21 PM (xSegX)

131 "It's worse than that: I sincerely believe that they WANT to stay bamboozled.">>

It is the Ostrich defense tactic and John Stewart is the sand.

Posted by: Buzzsaw at February 17, 2013 06:21 PM (qo244)

132 1. Pith

I use that a lot on HuffPo.

A terse:

"You are wrong. Here's a link to the specific text section of the legislation you're talking about and it doesn't support what you say." is pretty much a conversation ender.

The downside is YOU have to pretty much become an expert about whatever is under discussion and have all the unimpeachable original source material at your finger tips. You'll have to use FBI/DOJ data and never anything from the media which often misstates and distorts everything.

They don't challenge data or law cites from the government.

Posted by: @PurpAv at February 17, 2013 06:22 PM (1rU+d)

133 Good dominance of pop culture example.
At a recent family event the TV was on some awards style show. The various hosts and celebutards made multiple anti-Republican, anti-conservative jokes. Nobody says anything.

Later in the evening I made one mild joke about Obama and the women attacked me for "always being political".

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at February 17, 2013 06:22 PM (ZPrif)

134 >I live in a college town and am surrounded by hipster douchebags.


I hate hipster douchebags

Posted by: Jones in CO at February 17, 2013 06:22 PM (8sCoq)

135 Ronald Reagan promises tax cuts to the masses...wins
George W. Bush promises tax cuts to the masses...wins
Barak Obama promises tax cuts to the masses...wins

The others did not promise tax cuts to the masses (Bob Dole, John Mccain, Mitt Romney) or raised taxes (George H. W. Bush).

Bill Clinton did not release a substance into the mouth of that electorate, that US of A.

Lowering SS taxes wins elections. Increasing earned-income-refunds wins elections.

Increasing job growth by lowering business taxes doesn't win elections any more.

Politics is personal. The masses who voted for Obama expected goodies. So did the ones who voted for Romney. Romney's group was smaller were it counted.



Posted by: huggy at February 17, 2013 06:23 PM (th6eP)

136 Democrats have done with help from some Republicans have effectively demonized the GOP in the minds of many voters.

That's only because every Republican has to accept every flaw of every other Republican.

When was the last time anybody asked a Democrat about Guam tipping over?

Or, hell, about underage prostitutes?

Look, I'm OK with a lot of relaxed moral standards, but we're supposed to be cool with pederasty now?

Posted by: AmishDude at February 17, 2013 06:23 PM (xSegX)

137 Socialism - Smaller than Life.

for many people, that is actually WHAT THEY WANT. life is too intimidating.

Posted by: BlackOrchid-StillMissingDagny at February 17, 2013 06:23 PM (J6kXj)

138 >I am thinking of writing a post on my site about how conformist this
generation of kids is and how short their attention span is.


Dennis Miller remarked "Who knew the Woodstock Generation would grow up to be 'The Man' "

Posted by: Jones in CO at February 17, 2013 06:24 PM (8sCoq)

139 Look, I'm OK with a lot of relaxed moral standards, but we're supposed to be cool with pederasty now?

Posted by: AmishDude at February 17, 2013 06:23 PM (xSegX)

We are fighting from an inferior position.

The Left has taught their adherents that mass murder is okay, if done by the correct people.

Buggering little girls and boys is nothing......


Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at February 17, 2013 06:26 PM (GsoHv)

140 Jones in CO

I live in your neck of the woods. You know what I'm talking about. there is a permanent drifter/grifter class here that developed through university brainwashing when none of us were paying attention.

Posted by: L, elle at February 17, 2013 06:26 PM (0PiQ4)

141 > The masses who voted for Obama expected goodies. So did the ones who voted for Romney.


I voted for Romney because I felt the Presidency had been usurped by an anti-American fifth column

Posted by: Jones in CO at February 17, 2013 06:27 PM (8sCoq)

142 about how conformist this
generation of kids is


I've noticed the uniform of their "individuality" seems to be remarkably consistent and not terribly individual.

I got way more respect for hardcore anarchist types than these poofy punks.

Posted by: @PurpAv at February 17, 2013 06:27 PM (1rU+d)

143 Being an adult is hard and shit. It really is. Telling people that, hey, guess what, there is no unicorn and you can't have everything you want and you have to work your ass off just to keep your head above water isn't going to make them happy with you.

At my old firm, I was the official giver of bad news to clients. Why? Because I had the least amount of client interaction. That way I got to be the Bad Guy who said those Mean Things and my boss and the various support staff who didn't have to deal with the drama.


The Republicans are the ones who are perceived as giving the bad news. It's Daddy Issues playing out on a national electoral level.


I remain gobsmacked at the vileness that drinking water is now a career ending matter.

Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Take us away. at February 17, 2013 06:27 PM (Gk3SS)

144 life is too intimidating

If we could ever stop texting, and we had ever in our sheltered lives submitted to honest self-examination, we would probably readily admit to this. Faux outrage is more fun, so we'll stick to that, k?

Posted by: Hipster Douchebags at February 17, 2013 06:28 PM (vbh31)

145 It will burn anyways, but remember they still only win by small margins so maybe there is some hope of the Phoenix rising from the ashes for our granchildren.

Posted by: Buzzsaw at February 17, 2013 06:28 PM (qo244)

146 >You know what I'm talking about. there is a permanent drifter/grifter
class here that developed through university brainwashing



yes- and they will be running things in 20 years. We're doomed.

Posted by: Jones in CO at February 17, 2013 06:29 PM (8sCoq)

147 ...for many people, that is actually WHAT THEY WANT. life is too intimidating.

Like in "Shawshank", when Brooks is so scared after being released from a predictable life in prison that he kills himself rather than deal with the fear of life "outside" everyday.

Posted by: Tobacco Road at February 17, 2013 06:29 PM (4Mv1T)

148 there are two (at least) strategeries for combating the snarky, hipster douchebag world:
1) moar lee atwater. attack, attack, attack. Mock the Urkel in mom jeans who can't throw at every opportunity. Mock elizabeth warren for being a moron. Mock them all as pitiful failures and beta losers who can't do anyhing right or anything at all in the real world.

2) Let it burn. we'll see who's laughing when the money runs out.

Posted by: luke duke at February 17, 2013 06:29 PM (AupFg)

149 At my old firm, I was the official giver of bad news to clients. Why? Because I had the least amount of client interaction. That way I got to be the Bad Guy who said those Mean Things and my boss and the various support staff who didn't have to deal with the drama.


I thought it would be because you jumped up and down and shouted, "Me! Me! Pick Me!" and then kneecapped your competition.

Posted by: Colorado Alex at February 17, 2013 06:29 PM (hpDVh)

150 Look, I'm OK with a lot of relaxed moral standards

So are we!

Posted by: Spirochetes at February 17, 2013 06:30 PM (vbh31)

151 The long march apparently includes the internet.

Posted by: Burn the Witch at February 17, 2013 06:31 PM (DvVVN)

152 Ace, I thought you were the Master of your domain.

Posted by: Darth Randall at February 17, 2013 06:31 PM (mV8sg)

153
Key point -

Subtlety is lost on the unsubtle.

Pith is all well and good. But I've finally just started saying this to those Lefties that I still socialize with:

If I stopped reading {about topic} when you did I'd probably agree with you.

Posted by: BumperStickerist at February 17, 2013 06:31 PM (J8DGo)

154
Being an adult is hard and shit.>>

Being a kid used to be hard too. But now that everybody gets a trophy and no threat of consequences (the second beating if school called home instead of a lawyer to protect the kid from said consequence) not so much.

Posted by: Buzzsaw at February 17, 2013 06:31 PM (qo244)

155 At my old firm, I was the official giver of bad news to clients.

At IBM I was a tech adviser/free floater who reported directly to 2nd and 3rd line managers. When they asked about the actual status of some project I was hovering over, I'd always ask them, do you want a soothing lie or the truth?

For some, that was a hard question.

Posted by: @PurpAv at February 17, 2013 06:32 PM (1rU+d)

156 Exactly, Soothsayer.

We need to be hiring advertising men. Not political wonks. The message needs to be hammered up the libtard's asses.

No more fucking taxes.

No more fucking gun grabbing.

No more fucking fascist big government telling people what to do.

Posted by: Kristophr at February 17, 2013 06:32 PM (wYVte)

157 Could be some truth to Ace's idea.
Mrs VIA has an Asian friend who expounds constantly about how she "saw a tv show about.." or "read an article about" some topic or another. But when questioned about her own thought process concerning the topic, there is just nothing there. And when pushed to do so, is unable to explain why she supports the offered viewpoint of the article or show.
We once got into an hour long argument concerning what criteria should be.used to define a " living wage".

Posted by: VIA, on the tiny keyboard at February 17, 2013 06:32 PM (g0oF2)

158 thanks for the shout-out, Leigh.

By the way, Leigh's recent movie is the Witches of Oz, I believe it's called. Not the James Franco one coming out now, but a Dorothy in the Modern Day one that came out a year ago.

>>>Sorry, but these guys are going to continue winning because they understand the media. Just that simple.

I think they understand that, but I think they understand something important that allows them to use the media effectively: They understand psychology, and they understand what people Aspire to, and they strongly associate liberalism with those aspirations.

I think they also understand a critical aspect of the psychology of salesmanship: The foot in the door gambit. People will stick around to hear the pitch if you request, initially, a *small* thing at first, rather than a *large* thing.

A lot of conservative communication is over-preoccupied with selling very Large Predicates to a populace that isn't even sold on smaller ones.

We need to stop blitzing an unsold populace with Large Principles. You start with the small. Small buy-in. Then offer more advanced features.

Posted by: ace at February 17, 2013 06:33 PM (LCRYB)

159 Apologies for going o/t (but after 150+ posts), but let me just add my voice to the chorus of compassion crying out for a ban on meteorites!
This boy could have been killed!
http://preview.tinyurl.com/n227d6

Posted by: Thorvald at February 17, 2013 06:33 PM (1V6Pv)

160 62
I've been reading DeLong and Krugman and that Ezra Klein guy and some of
those other guys for the last year or so. They are just better than
our pundits. I don't think they're right, but they are better at
framing and finding information to support their framing and absolutely
devastating at rhetorically supporting that framing.



We have K Lo.

Posted by: JohnW at February 17, 2013 05:54 PM

Krugman and Klein don't frame their arguments that well. Krugman is simply so arrogant and sure of what he "knows" that if challenged he foams at the mouth, holds his trophy up and screams "Nobel, bitches !!!!"

Krugman and Klein have the self assurance of a friendly crowd standing behind them, kind of like the little shit in the bar who comes in with a bunch of thugs and always gets his shot of courage to run his mouth


Posted by: kbdabear at February 17, 2013 06:33 PM (mCvL4)

161 >>>Ace, I thought you were the Master of your domain.

nah. I'm learning French. Nipple Girl makes me randy.

Posted by: ace at February 17, 2013 06:33 PM (LCRYB)

162 List of things the average conservative hates:

Evolution/science
Hollywood
Universities
Public school teachers
labor/unions
immigrants
Green energy
Gays
Muslims
the media
The UN
the ACLU (civil liberties)
City people
Free Speech/Porn
Contraception
Secularists/atheists
Young voters
Canadians/Europeans

Gee, I wonder why the GOP is shrinking?





Posted by: Herbert Hymenhopper at February 17, 2013 06:34 PM (qLjUy)

163 161
>>>Ace, I thought you were the Master of your domain.



nah. I'm learning French. Nipple Girl makes me randy.

Posted by: ace at February 17, 2013 06:33 PM

Hey, we're still going to the movies tonight, right?

Posted by: Blonde in the State Farm ad at February 17, 2013 06:35 PM (mCvL4)

164 I wish we could start a national conversation among conservatives somehow on the topic What The Hell Do We Do Now.

We are so far behind the Dems on organization and tech and media. Is it possible to even catch up at this point?

Posted by: L, elle at February 17, 2013 06:36 PM (0PiQ4)

165 136 AmishDude
The truth many Conservatives do not want to face is that most Americans do not care about social issues. It turns off many voters and Republicans come across as busy bodies. I know this is not a popular to say thios on blogs, but to many Americans, they do not want to hear about abortion, gays,. contraceptives or culture wars. They just want to live their lives and be left alone. Until Republicans realize this, they will continue to lose elections.

Posted by: Infinite Wisdom at February 17, 2013 06:36 PM (puDKn)

166 We need to stop blitzing an unsold populace with Large Principles. You start with the small. Small buy-in. Then offer more advanced features.

Posted by: ace


Right To Work

Everybody's got to work, right? Who's against a right to work? What kind of Meanie McMeanster is against a right to work?

Posted by: weft cut-loop at February 17, 2013 06:37 PM (Ipj15)

167 We once got into an hour long argument concerning what criteria should be.used to define a " living wage".

Anyone who intends to make a career out of a minimum wage entry level job would be a fool to think they can support a family on it and be rolling phat.

The whole "living wage" argument is bullshit.

Posted by: @PurpAv at February 17, 2013 06:37 PM (1rU+d)

168 Gee, I wonder why the GOP is shrinking?



Posted by: Herbert Hymenhopper at February 17, 2013 06:34 PM

Your complete ignorance and your bumper sticker memes pretty well prove ace's point.

Now go home and get your fuckin' shine box

Posted by: kbdabear at February 17, 2013 06:37 PM (mCvL4)

169 I wish we could start a national conversation among conservatives somehow on the topic What The Hell Do We Do Now.

What the hell do you think has been happening? There is a national conversation going on about what we should do going forward.

Posted by: Colorado Alex at February 17, 2013 06:38 PM (hpDVh)

170 You've got to fight for your right to partay!

Posted by: Low Information Voter at February 17, 2013 06:38 PM (VlXYw)

171 164 L, elle
That is another aspect to all this. The Democrats get their propaganda out on social media and tailor their message to specific groups. Republicans use a one size fots all and do not target specific demographics.

Posted by: Infinite Wisdom at February 17, 2013 06:38 PM (puDKn)

172 >We need to stop blitzing an unsold populace with
Large Principles. You start with the small. Small buy-in. Then offer
more advanced features.

Posted by: ace at February 17, 2013 06:33 PM (LCRYB)

[ik]You gotta get the customer on the lot first.

Posted by: Jones in CO at February 17, 2013 06:38 PM (8sCoq)

173 beware my html-fu

Posted by: Jones in CO at February 17, 2013 06:39 PM (8sCoq)

174 List of things the average conservative hates:
Posted by: Herbert Hymenhopper>>

More a list of things conservatives understand than hate I think.

Posted by: Buzzsaw at February 17, 2013 06:39 PM (qo244)

175 I still think we need to flood their blogs

Posted by: Jones in CO at February 17, 2013 06:39 PM (8sCoq)

176 It turns off many voters and Republicans come across
as busy bodies. I know this is not a popular to say thios on blogs, but
to many Americans, they do not want to hear about abortion, gays,.
contraceptives or culture wars. They just want to live their lives and
be left alone. Until Republicans realize this, they will continue to
lose elections.


Posted by: Infinite Wisdom at February 17, 2013 06:36 PM

Social conservatives still number in the millions and tend to be active voters.

How many Meggie Macs do you think you can get to switch over the GOP to replace them, and how will you go about convincing them to vote against the Party of Free Shit?

Posted by: kbdabear at February 17, 2013 06:40 PM (mCvL4)

177 life is too intimidating

Yes, and having kids is too. So lets get rid of them. PP with over a million customers a year. As someone stated above the rich don't have a lot of kids, the middle want them but can't afford them and the poor have them for a meal ticket, that is the future.

Posted by: Laquisha (vote 15 x for Barrack Obama) Johnson at February 17, 2013 06:40 PM (ZQSV4)

178 Partial list of things the average liberal hates:
responsibility
self-sufficiency
individualism
self-determination
baseline moral constructs
ambition
honesty
the word "no"
etc., etc., etc...

Posted by: While we're doing lists at February 17, 2013 06:40 PM (vbh31)

179 162 Herbert Hymenhopper
Some of those groups do deserve Conservative ire, but some on that list do not. I agree that Republicans are not viewed as a party that stands for something. It is viewed as a Party of people who hate others.

Posted by: Infinite Wisdom at February 17, 2013 06:40 PM (puDKn)

180 whereas the Democrats have "evil genius" types like Axelrod leading a bunch of complete idiots

Yeah. What's trickled down from Leninism and the Frankfurt School and [etc.] into/onto our fascist/dumbass leftoid coalition is brilliant shit. It's a huge arsenal of killer insights into how to rule--and a whole steaming mountain of esoteric rhetoric that makes chumps who aren't in on it but need so very very much to be in enthusiastic about being ruled.

For example, calling people racists is exciting. It's "the feeling that power is increasing." So, How do I get in on that shit? How do I open-sesame the cave? To what Lord do I direct my entreaties? In what terms? Whom do I betray to prove that only His voice moves me? What icon do I smash? What sinners do I denounce? Is there a list around here somewhere...

And there is.

Posted by: oblig. at February 17, 2013 06:40 PM (cePv8)

181 #162

Labor and Unions are not a single thing. One is a parasite upon the other.

Nor is the ACLU the last word in Civil Liberties. Its founder's goal was to enact socialism, which is about as good a way to destroy civil liberties as I've ever heard about.

So you've outed yourself as a very LIV.

Posted by: epobirs at February 17, 2013 06:40 PM (kcfmt)

182 ergie's an archetypal example of what I'm talking about (here and in the current top post at The Conversation).

Ergie simply is not very bright. He poses as an aesthete (his introduction here was demanding, stupidly, "What's your top ten movies?" or "top ten albums?" of everyone), but in fact has no artistic appreciation nor any sort of taste.

He's one of those blowhards who skims Bluffer's Guide to Modern Art so he can sound educated, without the bothersome education part.

And yet he prattles on here like Professor Science.

His intelligence is, at best, in the 105 range, and yet he's a genius, because, Leftism.

We need to strip this illusion from him, and for anyone else seduced by the Easy Way to Be Smart promise of ego-boosting leftism.

Posted by: ace at February 17, 2013 06:40 PM (LCRYB)

183 What changed things in the Carter years was marinating people in misery.

We forget that when Carter was sworn in, the conventional wisdom was that Ronald Reagan was a dangerous radical who should never be trusted with power.

Eventually people got so infuriated and desperate with Carter, so immiserated and upset, that they were willing to turn to that supposedly 'radical' alternative in 1980.

Why didn't the misery of Obama's first four years result in a similar ouster?

For one thing, the misery hasn't gotten deep enough yet. Thanks to heavy borrowing to pad the sharp edges. If Carter had engaged in Obama-level deficit spending and used it to hand out Carterphones and a tidal wave of other cushy benefits to the Free Shit Army, Carter would probably have had a second term.

For another thing, ask yourself this: did the GOP offer a dramatically clear contrast with Obama, as Reagan did for Carter? Hell, no. The GOP put up against Obama a guy who said repeatedly "I agree with the President", and whose signature previous policy achievement had been a state level version of Obamacare. Voters were offered a distinction without a difference in 2012 by Mitt Romney. In 1980, they were offered a PROFOUND difference by Ronald Reagan.

Demographics, for yet another thing. The 1980 electorate would not have returned Obama to office. Something that can't be repeated enough is that Democrats set out deliberately over the last few decades "to elect a new people" more conducive to their agenda via mass immigration, and Republicans meekly went along with it. Because cheap lawn care. Maybe we should knock it off with that shit.

Posted by: torquewrench at February 17, 2013 06:41 PM (gqT4g)

184 Posted by: Voluble at February 17, 2013 06:20 PM (qYvEa)

Please share your website. 404 in your name link.

Posted by: Derak at February 17, 2013 06:41 PM (0BC1B)

185 So whatever we do, we gotta dumb it down so your ass gets it.

I got it. Good to go.

Posted by: Greg Toombs at February 17, 2013 06:41 PM (2xLsT)

186 The whole "living wage" argument is bullshit.>>

Yes if $9.50 is good why isn't $50.00 better.

Posted by: Buzzsaw at February 17, 2013 06:41 PM (qo244)

187 Heh, Hector and Clarence circle-jerking each other again.

Posted by: Waterhouse at February 17, 2013 06:41 PM (lMZvt)

188 Obama golfs with Tiger Woods, shuts out White House press corps
The White House press corps that follows President Obama's every move has been barred from seeing or snapping a photograph of the president golfing with Tiger Woods in South Florida.

Tim Rosaforte, senior writer at Golf World/Golf Digest, began tweeting and talking on the Golf Channel about the game from inside The Floridian National Golf Club Sunday morning. At one point, he tweeted: "The President is arriving at The Floridian range. Awaiting is Tiger Woods and club owner Jim Crane. Historic day in golf. Their first round." Golf Digest's story is here.

But it took until 1:45 p.m for the White House to confirm to the White House pool that Obama had been hitting the links with Woods. That word from principal deputy press secretary Josh Earnest: "The President played golf today with USTR Ron Kirk, Jim Crane and Tiger Woods."

Most transparent administration ever? My ass

Posted by: Nevergiveup at February 17, 2013 06:41 PM (jE38p)

189 Playing dumb. It's not just for dumb people.

Posted by: Greg Toombs at February 17, 2013 06:42 PM (2xLsT)

190 176 kbdabear
It's not becasue of free shit that people vote for Democrats. Keep telling yourself that if it makes you feel better, but it is not the truth. Many vote for the Democrats because they think Republicans hate them.

But hey, if you like losing, I will not be able to convince you winning is better.

Posted by: Infinite Wisdom at February 17, 2013 06:42 PM (puDKn)

191 The Dem's are the Party of gun control.
The Dem's are the Party of higher taxes.
The Dem's are the Party of bigger government and more people on welfare and food stamps.


The Dems are the party of lawyers. (Every P or VP nominee from the Dems went to law school since Carter.)
The Dems are the party of rapists. (If they question that, note the felon voting project.)
The Dems are the party of murderers. (Same.)
The Dems are the party of lawyers. (Did I mention that?)
The Dems are the party of slavery, not just traditionally but currently. (They cast out the prime pastor running the modern anti-slavery movement from Obama's inauguration.)

And on and on. Make them own their worst members.

Like Westboro.

Posted by: AmishDude at February 17, 2013 06:42 PM (xSegX)

192 So, basically, Weirddave was correct in the morning thread?

Posted by: rickl at February 17, 2013 06:42 PM (sdi6R)

193 "... I don't like the conclusion this points to ...'

Ditto.

All Real Americans are experiencing some degree of denial in this regard, because it's now too late to do anything about it. What it points to is That Ship Has Sailed.

When we - those of us Real Americans who were minding our own business, living our respective lives, not causing anyone else trouble, pursuing the American Dream, etc. ... - when we didn't STOMP on the socialist saboteurs who intentionally destroyed the public education system (then the private one, soon after), we missed the chance to prevent Low Information Voters from reaching critical mass. They now have.

Enjoy the decline.

Posted by: goy at February 17, 2013 06:43 PM (QsFws)

194 I've been trying an alternative shortcut strategy. If you notice, I'm always knocking liberals on an intellectual level now. My theory is there is no sense knocking them on morality (they don't value that, so the attempted insult fails) but they do have a great deal of self-worth wrapped up in the idea that They're Smart because They Pretend to Laugh at Jon Stewart.

Okay, what if we take that away? What if we strip away the ego-boosting feature of liberalism?

What if we always call it what it is -- a philosophy of fools and soft thinkers?


The problem here is that it's a two-step process. The first is in showing the vacuousness of the messengers of the left - this is the easy part (in that its easy to show that a Stewart or a Maddow or a Piers Morgan is full of bromides that don't tie to fact).this is painful in that as soon as a particular messenger is shown to have crossed a magic line into obvious falsehood - we'll call it the Olbermann Line, for grins - that party will recede, to be replaced by another vapid voice.

And that's the easy path, Ace.

It's harder to deal with the vacuousness of the message, because that implicitly can only be met if the person receiving the message is willing to accept that their worldview is and has been wrong. Which is equivalent to a religious conversion in terms of challenging a preconceived notion.

It's only done through experience.

Posted by: Kevin In ABQ at February 17, 2013 06:43 PM (GR1Sk)

195 We need to stop blitzing an unsold populace with
Large Principles. You start with the small. Small buy-in. Then offer
more advanced features.


IMHO, the best way to try and win some of these voters over is to do a full court press on the notion of pushing down this crap to the state level. Want gay marriage? Fine, but what's wrong with each state deciding? Want single payer health care? Fine, but let NY or California or Illinois develop their own systems and not take money from Colorado to pay for it.

I'd rather fight 50 battles and win a few, than fight one battle for the whole enchilada and lose.

Posted by: Colorado Alex at February 17, 2013 06:43 PM (hpDVh)

196 Evidence against liberalism is simply too overwhelming and too freely available for ignorance to be a valid excuse. In the Age of Information, all ignorance is willful ignorance.

Posted by: JohnJ at February 17, 2013 06:44 PM (Tt6ky)

197 Posted by: Herbert Hymenhopper at February 17, 2013 06:34 PM (qLjUy)

Did you ever happen to take a survey from professors by the name of "Dunning" and "Kruger?"

Posted by: AD at February 17, 2013 06:44 PM (4V9al)

198 183 torquewrench
Blaming Demographics is a cop out. Republcians should be able to apepal to a broader electorate. Compete and fight for every vote.

Posted by: Infinite Wisdom at February 17, 2013 06:44 PM (puDKn)

199 Anyone who intends to make a career out of a minimum wage entry level job would be a fool to think they can support a family on it and be rolling phat.

The whole "living wage" argument is bullshit.
Posted by: @PurpAv

Unfortunately, many out there think that minimum wage should be equivalent to the salary an MBA or JD or MD earns, regardless of the amount of time spent in study and training to earn the higher salary. I think this stems from the "we are all special snowflakes" ideology that seeks to demean achievement and glorify mediocrity.

Posted by: moki at February 17, 2013 06:44 PM (wi/sM)

200 Just finished Amy Lynn and now have to wait for the next book.


Come on OSP get crackin'.

Posted by: Vic at February 17, 2013 06:45 PM (53z96)

201 Oops, wrong thread

Posted by: Vic at February 17, 2013 06:45 PM (53z96)

202 I think you are absolutely right Ace. Plus, don't forget that history/politics are not inherently "sexy" subjects. People who, for whatever reason, are attracted to them on their own quickly fall on the side of conservative/libertarian thought. The average person doesn't have an interest and thinks of these subjects as dry and "icky". So the art here is juxtaposing leftist nonsense with sexy subject matter. People on Facebook don't go looking for a "Marco Rubio drinking water GIF" they go looking for a Kate Upton bouncing GIF. But low and behold, what's on the same page? The left has used sex, drugs, rock and roll as a "gateway drug" to politics and history. Cracked.com is also genius at doing this.

Posted by: Leigh Scott at February 17, 2013 06:45 PM (BRhVY)

203 I wish we could start a national conversation among conservatives somehow on the topic What The Hell Do We Do Now.



Personally, I plan on drinking heavily.


Someone in the comments over at LI nailed the problem with starting countervailing sites. The second that there's a hing of anything remotely right wing, people will flee. The ever so grand tolerance of the Left allows for no space for those who deviate from The Way. Hell, a few years back there was a huge movement to throw me out of an online writing group I had been part of for years when someone found out I was a Republican. Mind you, the stuff I wrote for that group had absolutely nothing to do with politics and there was an unwritten agreement that politics wouldn't be discussed. It didn't matter, it was simply too horrifying for people to imagine being associated with, gasp, a Republican. The only reason I wasn't thrown out of the group was because it was pointed out that I was the one who had been paying for various things the group used for the past several years and if I went so did the money. Shockingly, none of those putting up a stink wanted to put their money where their mouth was. Funny that. I ended up leaving for different reasons but that whole disaster destroyed some friendships that I'd had for years.


I really don't know what can be done. Other than the drinking.

Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Take us away. at February 17, 2013 06:46 PM (Gk3SS)

204 @162

things average conservatives hate.

Stupid lefty dipshit weak trolls like Humbert Hineyhoover.

top of the list.

Posted by: T.Hunter at February 17, 2013 06:46 PM (EZl54)

205 Lee Atwater was great. And effective.

And like Breitbart died suddenly at the height of his effectiveness. He was only 40 when he developed an unusually aggressive form of brain cancer.

Funny how that works.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at February 17, 2013 06:47 PM (ZPrif)

206 196 Evidence against liberalism is simply too overwhelming and too freely available for ignorance to be a valid excuse. In the Age of Information, all ignorance is willful ignorance.

Sorry, I disagree entirely. In fact, that's our chief problem. We also have low information voters on our side. It's much easier to be a low information voter on the left, though.

1. The public school system will get to them first.
2. The mainstream media will shelter them more thoroughly.

Posted by: AD at February 17, 2013 06:48 PM (4V9al)

207 This is essentially what The Onion, Glee, Playboy magazine, The Daily Show, and a millions other lefty pushers do.

Posted by: JohnJ at February 17, 2013 06:48 PM (Tt6ky)

208 >>>they go looking for a Kate Upton bouncing GIF

Nonsense.

Link?

Posted by: ace at February 17, 2013 06:48 PM (LCRYB)

209 203 alexthechick - SMOD
Being a Republican is becoming socially unacceptable. The Left has painted Republicans with a Scarlett letter.

Posted by: Infinite Wisdom at February 17, 2013 06:48 PM (puDKn)

210 This is constructive.

It's also important to note that these messaging failures stem from the fact that the party apparatus is corrupt, and subscribers to leftism by and large. Anyone who denies this needs to open their eyes.

Further, the left has "the professional left.". Dozens upon dozens of enviro orgs, for example, that provide internships, and jobs after college, and training in various things, etc. There is nothing to match it on the right.

Finally, the left has a well funded feedback loop with the government. Its difficult for most folks, even conservatives, to grasp how far reaching this is.

AmeriCorps is an example. Almost all funding goes to leftists groups. The federal government funds hundreds--hundreds-- of environmentalist organizations. Planned Parenthood. Community activism. Etc. Billions are spent on these.

I'm not trying to detract from this important post. What I'm trying to highlight is that the linchpins of the American left are concrete and identifiable. And the party apparatus being essentially leftist itself is what makes this possible.

Remember how enraged the left became over the prospect of PBS being defunded? Because once that avalanche starts, it will be their undoing.

I've advocated elsewhere on this blog various strategies. I reiterate the need for targeted ridicule of specific government funded leftist programs.

And link politicians to them.

Start with low hanging fruit.

Posted by: Hopeless at February 17, 2013 06:48 PM (VIo0S)

211 @129 well said. The smartphone angle in this past election was unnerving. Seeing Liz Warren ads on "words with friends" in hindsight said it all, I should not have been so shocked at the election. Smartphones are like FSA zombie dogwhistles and I bet the political messaging hasnt stopped at all since nov 7.

Posted by: Goldilocks at February 17, 2013 06:48 PM (Lb8hV)

212 It's partly due to the Race Card, to me.

The reason that "no President has ever been re-elected when unemployment was above X%" or " ...never re-elected with less than X% job approval" was turned upside down is because Obama succeeded in not accepting any blame for his failures, and none was put upon him by the media... because he is Liberal and Black. Black being the clincher.

Whoever runs on DNC ticket in 2016 will have to either distance themselves from or defend Obama's record. They will not be accorded similar shielding, unless they run Corey Booker.

Posted by: ChampionCapua at February 17, 2013 06:51 PM (KZi9D)

213 Sounds like first-rate fighting men material.

Posted by: C. at February 17, 2013 06:51 PM (InTGn)

214 >>>>>>>>>What the hell do you think has been happening? There is a national
conversation going on about what we should do going forward.

Yeah, okay, CO Alex, I know, but the base has no single leader or media outlet while the Repub establishment does. We have talk radio and online outlets, and the Tea Party doesn't have its shit together. We are unorganized and disparate entities.

Posted by: L, elle at February 17, 2013 06:51 PM (0PiQ4)

215 people aren't stupid, they just start at certain assumptions of What Govt. Should Do, and conservatives haven't rebutted those assumptions.

they've argued that Obamacare costs too much, will hurt economic growth, won't work etc. which is all well and good but it's not an ideological counterargument against universal healthcare, or an argument in favor of how to better the healthcare system differently. so it's not effective.

Posted by: JDP at February 17, 2013 06:51 PM (8HhF2)

216 They will not be accorded similar shielding, unless they run Corey Booker.

or Michelle Obama. Or Deval Patrick. Or Mike Nutter . .

Posted by: BlackOrchid-StillMissingDagny at February 17, 2013 06:51 PM (J6kXj)

217 "Mike Nutter"

name is disqualifying

Posted by: JDP at February 17, 2013 06:52 PM (8HhF2)

218 "That is another aspect to all this. The Democrats
get their propaganda out on social media and tailor their message to
specific groups. Republicans use a one size fots all and do not target
specific demographics.


Posted by: Infinite Wisdom at February 17, 2013 06:38 PM (puDKn)"

Which is ironic because the Left's top-down "command and control" governance philosophy is the exact opposite of "tailored". Once a Leftist is in office, they say fuck all that "we want to hear your opinion" and "we'll put our negotiations on C-SPAN" bullshit, it's time for "we have to pass it to know what's in it".

Posted by: BS Inc. at February 17, 2013 06:52 PM (bcBOj)

219 You would think, with all their free time, the yutes of today could read something of substance. Like the articles in Asian porn magazines.

Posted by: Dr Spank at February 17, 2013 06:52 PM (4cRnj)

220 182
ergie's an archetypal example of what I'm talking about (here and in the current top post at The Conversation).



Ergie simply is not very bright. He poses as an aesthete (his
introduction here was demanding, stupidly, "What's your top ten movies?"
or "top ten albums?" of everyone), but in fact has no artistic
appreciation nor any sort of taste.



He's one of those blowhards who skims Bluffer's Guide to Modern Art
so he can sound educated, without the bothersome education part.





Posted by: ace at February 17, 2013 06:40 PM

So what you're saying ace, is that ergie is the tourist in the floral shirt visiting Real World

Posted by: kbdabear at February 17, 2013 06:53 PM (mCvL4)

221 "Mike Nutter"

name is disqualifying


lol you would think so wouldn't you? he's probably the best of the bunch

Posted by: BlackOrchid-StillMissingDagny at February 17, 2013 06:53 PM (J6kXj)

222
Somebody did a song about this...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z79pgPn357g

Posted by: RecklessProcess at February 17, 2013 06:53 PM (f7ylG)

223 >>>>>Personally, I plan on drinking heavily.

No shit, AtC. I'm with you there.

Posted by: L, elle at February 17, 2013 06:54 PM (0PiQ4)

224 Someone say "Kate Upton"GIFS?

http://thechive.com/2011/05/17/kate-upton-gifs-make-all-the-other-gifs-jealous-12-photos/

I could use this to sell a flat tax...no problem.

Posted by: Leigh Scott at February 17, 2013 06:54 PM (BRhVY)

225 That did it for me Ace...especially on a Sunday evening, several pop in, I get it. If I were sober maybe not so much but drinking does have its upside especially in these times.

Posted by: bverwey at February 17, 2013 06:54 PM (W74O0)

226 Here are a couple problems.



Many Leftists are nice, caring, wonderful people. As the only
non-Leftist in my family (except, thank goodness, for my wife), and
having been in the despised non-Leftist minority throughout my
education, I can attest:



Leftists can be nice, caring, wonderful, intelligent and clever, and yet low information, narrow minded people.



They are exactly like Christians who for centuries could not even imagine another point of view.



Human nature does not change. That is one of the key observations of
non-Leftists. With the consequent regard for the weakness of humans,
non-Leftists are at the disadvantage any graciously deferential person is at when confronted with a Leftist, for whom every detail of life ought to be a matter of government coercion.



Except for abortion, piss Christ and pole dancing, the handy solution for every Leftist is the threat of prison.



When you tell this to a Leftist, regardless of their native intelligence, they do not get it. Slavery is freedom, war is peace.



There is a bigger metaphysical, cosmological explanation for the Leftist
mentality, having to do with the ongoing narrative of life.



What point is there now, except some of us realize we were so lucky to
have been more in America when we were, and might die before the
nightmare becomes unavoidable.







Posted by: Tonawanda at February 17, 2013 06:55 PM (GeFHE)

227 You cannot win in the arena of ideas if people don't want to think about it.

Posted by: Dept. Of Accuracy Dept. at February 17, 2013 06:56 PM (MhA4j)

228 name is disqualifying


Nah.

Posted by: Bill Ballsack (D) at February 17, 2013 06:56 PM (vbh31)

229 i think God created Kate Upton to let me know I've made some bad life choices

Posted by: ace at February 17, 2013 06:56 PM (LCRYB)

230
please don't underestimate the value of funny/insulting pics on the internet

it's a cheap stunt but...

- it demoralizes the other side
- it gives us swagger
- swagger is attractive

Right now, the last thing the Right is attractive. We are a mess. Nobody wants anything to do with us because we reek of despair and nervous sweat.


Posted by: soothsayer at February 17, 2013 06:56 PM (1WM2H)

231 @JDP It's not the people are stupid. It's that they put protecting their ego over doing a minimal amount of research that could change their opinion. It's Plato 101. A majoritarian society empowers sophists because people's opinions are the currency of power, and the average person is only average and won't be able to defend himself intellectually against the more sophisticated. In order to influence opinion, sophists tell people what makes them feel good. Thus, everyone thinks he's a genius with special insight into everything, because that's what all the sophists told him. Inquiry is the one thing the sophists don't want.

"Inquiry is fatal to certainty." Will Durant


Posted by: JohnJ at February 17, 2013 06:57 PM (Tt6ky)

232 Give it a read; I have a thought about this.

>>> Or we can skip the pontification and get to the nitty gritty of what needs to be done with people like that.

Posted by: trump at February 17, 2013 06:58 PM (F8Lnm)

233 190
176 kbdabear
It's not becasue of free shit that people vote for
Democrats. Keep telling yourself that if it makes you feel better, but
it is not the truth. Many vote for the Democrats because they think
Republicans hate them.

Posted by: Infinite Wisdom at February 17, 2013 06:42 PM

No, it's because they believe that Republicans hate giving them the free shit that they believe rightfully belongs to them and give it to "greedy billionaires".

Student loan bailouts, mortgage bailouts, free health care, it's all free shit that "the rich" should pay for. (unless it's a rich athlete or celebrity, then they're wonderful and it's none of your business how much they pay in taxes)

As for that "Republicans hate me, boo-hoo", that's the complaint of the well off lefties like Hollywood gays and trust fund lefties

As far as conservatives hating porn, you don't really read the comments here, do you





Posted by: kbdabear at February 17, 2013 06:58 PM (mCvL4)

234 224
I could use this to sell a flat tax...no problem.
Posted by: Leigh Scott at February 17, 2013 06:54 PM (BRhVY)


I see what you did there.

Posted by: rickl at February 17, 2013 06:58 PM (sdi6R)

235 Somebody did a song about this...>>

This one is more to the point.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7xxgRUyzgs0

Posted by: Buzzsaw at February 17, 2013 06:59 PM (qo244)

236 Being a Republican is becoming socially unacceptable. The Left has painted Republicans with a Scarlett letter.


Posted by: Infinite Wisdom at February 17, 2013 06:48 PM (puDKn)



Oh it's been that way for me for years. Apparently, it's unpossible to be the various combinations of things that I am. It is kind of hilarious that in some respect I am, indeed, a Special Snowflake.

Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Take us away. at February 17, 2013 06:59 PM (Gk3SS)

237 pron is bad for the soul mmmk

Posted by: JDP at February 17, 2013 06:59 PM (8HhF2)

238 i think God created Kate Upton to let me know I've made some bad life choices
Posted by: ace at February 17, 2013 06:56 PM (LCRYB)

What? Did you lose the Genetic lottey? Fall out of the wrong Crotch? Nope. Time destroys beautiful people. Time makes the rest of us smarter and wiser.

Posted by: Oldsailors Poet is no longer shamlessly hawking his book Amy Lynn available on amazon. at February 17, 2013 06:59 PM (l86i3)

239 I know a lot of women, hotter than Kate Upton who are in entertainment and conservative. They are terrified to come out and speak their minds. Look what happened to Stacey Dash. She and I made a movie together a couple years ago. If I don't hire her again, I'm not sure who will.

Posted by: Leigh Scott at February 17, 2013 07:00 PM (BRhVY)

240 they've argued that Obamacare costs too much...
...so it's not effective.


Nobody believes the burner is hot until they touch it and get burned.

Posted by: @PurpAv at February 17, 2013 07:00 PM (1rU+d)

241 Posted by: Herbert Hymenhopper at February 17, 2013 06:34 PM


Everyone of the orgs you list have great similarity in their stated mission:

They want to take by force the fruits of my labor to compel me to accept their worldview,or suffer the consequences. If they don't want my money, they still demand my soul.

This will not end well.

This is why we will never agree. The left is tyranny.

Posted by: Derak at February 17, 2013 07:00 PM (0BC1B)

242
People are not only stupid, theyre apathetic.

Ripe for the pickens, iow.

Posted by: soothsayer at February 17, 2013 07:00 PM (ZgBZU)

243 I agree with, and am depressed by, everything in this post. But there is more to this. The college age kids now aren't just low information, they get their information in completely different ways and in completely different data block sizes than they did even 5 years ago. The reason, IMHO, is mobile smart devices that allow them to access data quickly, wherever they are, and at any time. They become like crack addicts. They can't go more than 15 minutes without getting their fix - be it Facebook or whatever. Their attention spans are like fruit flies. They expect light-content and 140 characters. Depth? Reading a book? Forget it.

LI mentions Twitchy as our sole offering of this type on the web. If we want to compete for their attention, we need more. I really do not believe they are dumber than 5, 10, 15, or 20 years ago. They are conditioned by their environment to consume information and learn in different ways than everyone who reads this blog. We ignore this at our peril.

Posted by: Muad'dib - Bringer of Cookies at February 17, 2013 07:01 PM (SCTXH)

244 Or we can skip the pontification and get to the nitty gritty of what needs to be done with people like that.





Posted by: trump at February 17, 2013 06:58 PM (F8Lnm)

People have to be allowed to suffer the consequences of their choices. If you protect people from themselves, they will never learn.
Go Galt.

Posted by: JohnJ at February 17, 2013 07:01 PM (Tt6ky)

245 The important thing is that WWE's on the Road to Wrestlemania and tonight is the Elimination Chamber. Rock vs Punk. Cena and Ryback vs The Shield.

Which in Japan is known as Secret Poo Palace.
Other possible names were Crap Closet, Evacuation Station, and Turd Tower.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at February 17, 2013 07:01 PM (ZPrif)

246 231

i dunno, i am not trying to make people out to be smarter than they are but in cases like this i think it is more helpful to analyze why Republicans failed to make the sale, are there certain areas where there can be ideological flexibility without going all RINO, etc. this blog's done this too though so not trying to be unfair on that front.

of course it's also good not to overthink it, cuz there's certainly a real chance that depending on how things go in the next four years people in general will naturally be more favorably disposed toward Republicans anyway.

Posted by: JDP at February 17, 2013 07:02 PM (8HhF2)

247 i think God created Kate Upton to let me know I've made some bad life choices

Posted by: ace at February 17, 2013 06:56 PM (LCRYB)



Kate Upton is God showing off.


Thank you, thank you, thank you, God.


Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Take us away. at February 17, 2013 07:03 PM (Gk3SS)

248 Even scarier is the fact that the lefty "elites" who run companies like Google and Facebook have joined forces to track the habits of the low-info herds, so that they can better manipulate them into voting for idiots like Obama.

Posted by: Observer at February 17, 2013 07:03 PM (/sohm)

249 And speaking of WWE culture.

They re-gimmicked Jack Swagger (formerly pompous arrogant all-America blonde dude) as an anti-immigrant racist with a redneck Vietnam vet manager named Zeb Colter (get it -- like Ann Coulter, cause, you know, racist.)

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at February 17, 2013 07:03 PM (ZPrif)

250
Walk up to a guy and try to explain the global warming fraud to him and he'll shrug.

But tell that guy he just worked 10 hours out of forty this week to pay to save the planet by making Al Gore rich and you'll raise his ire, so to speak.

Posted by: soothsayer at February 17, 2013 07:03 PM (vyPsz)

251 people in general will naturally be more favorably disposed toward Republicans anyway.
Posted by: JDP at February 17, 2013 07:02 PM (8HhF2)

Cold and hunger does it.

Posted by: Oldsailors Poet is no longer shamlessly hawking his book Amy Lynn available on amazon. at February 17, 2013 07:04 PM (l86i3)

252 OT: Why did USB win over firewire? Lost the dam power to my external drive so I can't use it right now to listen to music.

Posted by: Buzzsaw at February 17, 2013 07:04 PM (qo244)

253 All our plans for the country should be presented by nude models. That should do it.

Posted by: Harry Junk at February 17, 2013 07:04 PM (4cRnj)

254 It would be much easier to go through life going along to get along, being with the rest of the crowd

But it's more exciting being the contrarian, the one who stands out even if you're hated. We're the new Bad Boys

Thinking what everyone else thinks, melting into the crowd, then finding that no one really loves you even when you agree with them because you offer nothing to stimulate them

Being a lefty is easy

Being a Moron is hard but a shitload more fun and exciting



Posted by: kbdabear at February 17, 2013 07:04 PM (mCvL4)

255 248 Indeed,and this is why we lost.They can get to the low information voters,they know how to manipulate them.Conservatives are free thinkers,we try to persuade not manipulate.We can't compete.

Posted by: steevy at February 17, 2013 07:04 PM (9XBK2)

256 "Blaming Demographics is a cop out. Republcians should be able to apepal
to a broader electorate. Compete and fight for every vote."

I hate to break it to you, but if I had grown up in some backwater Mexican village and had come up to El Norte, and been offered amnesty and the vote, I wouldn't have to think too long and hard about which of the two parties appealed to me more.

Party R: "We want you to work hard for the money you earn. There's no free ride here. We don't propose to treat you any differently than anyone else."

Party D: "Here's your free shit! A truckload worth of it. More to come. Also, we are issuing you an official Identity Politics Victim Card that gives you special status in society. Whenever you want a position you wouldn't otherwise be able to get, be it a job or a school slot or a promotion, you can pull this card and play it. You can blame everything that ever goes wrong in your life on injustices done to your ancestors, even though they were never in this country. Isn't that great?"

I would, again if I were the hypothetical Mexican immigrant in question, pull the lever for Party D until my fingers fell off.

So, no, this "compete and fight for every vote" business just doesn't work. Sorry.

Posted by: torquewrench at February 17, 2013 07:05 PM (gqT4g)

257 Being a Moron is hard but a shitload more fun and exciting



Posted by: kbdabear at February 17, 2013 07:04 PM (mCvL4)


Word!!

Posted by: Oldsailors Poet is no longer shamlessly hawking his book Amy Lynn available on amazon. at February 17, 2013 07:05 PM (l86i3)

258 Zeb Colter's (get it?) and Swagger's new evil tagline is to shout "We the People". As in, we the (white) people.

The whole arena will then boo the opening words of the Preamble to the Declaration of Independence.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at February 17, 2013 07:06 PM (ZPrif)

259 Republicans refuse to compare histories.

There is a concerted propaganda campaign now by the soviet media to erase the decades where the word "n-" was a staple of Democrat politics.

There is only one solution to the Democrat/soviet attempts to erase history, and that is to use prison as the ultimate means to make facts non-facts. That is what is happening now.


Posted by: Tonawanda at February 17, 2013 07:06 PM (GeFHE)

260 I could use this to sell a flat tax...no problem

If we renamed the Flat Tax the "Giggly DD Tax" we'd be golden.

Posted by: Kevin In ABQ at February 17, 2013 07:07 PM (GR1Sk)

261 One potential source of hope? Opinions held by these people are based on near-zero content and extremely shallow thinking. The strongest threads holding their belief system together is a form of peer pressure. If we could format a conservative message in a way that they could consume, supported by new media like Twitchy and others TBD, how hard would it truly be to tear apart those threads and scatter their current hive?

Posted by: Muad'dib - Bringer of Cookies at February 17, 2013 07:07 PM (SCTXH)

262 Al Gore is just a "Green" televangelist. Preaching against "sins" he commits daily.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at February 17, 2013 07:07 PM (ZPrif)

263 What if we always call it what it is -- a philosophy of fools and soft thinkers?

Posted by: ace at February 17, 2013 05:55 PM (LCRYB)


If a "living wage" is legislated, then we can do away with welfare, section 8 housing and all the other free shit that they were getting, right?

Posted by: model_1066 at February 17, 2013 07:07 PM (7xPCu)

264 Where are the metrics showing people who voted for Obama were impacted by this sort of messaging?

It makes sense as a theory no doubt.

IMO the only solution is direct confrontation with the people perpetuating this stuff, and on their own turf.

Like when Breitbart went on Bill Maher. He had the right idea about politics being downstream from culture.

Otherwise they just ignore our arguments, because they know low information voters aren't listening.

Posted by: Jose/ningrim at February 17, 2013 07:07 PM (srIqv)

265 Blacks and hispanics and asians vote Democrat because they are convinced that white Republicans are racist scum who hate them.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at February 17, 2013 07:09 PM (ZPrif)

266 Not only will they shun any such info, but always refuse to provide any
kind of evidence that backs up their assertions. Every single lefty
friend, acquaintance and family member I have argued with has exhibited
this behavior, each and every time. About every single subject
concerning politics.
***
Back when I regularly discussed politics on the internet I noticed this pattern, repeated eternally:

Lefty: We need to have the government do something because of A.

/Long argument, factually disprove A.

Lefty: Well, ok, maybe A isn't quite right, but we still need to have the government do the same thing because of B.

/Long argument factually disprove B.

Lefty: Fine, maybe B isn't quite right...but we still have to do something because of A.

/repeat the cycle for as long as you want.

One point that we should be crystal clear on, liberals don't want the things they want because of the reasons they give. For the more politically knowledgeable and active liberals, they want power, because according to them such power in their hands will bring utopia...and completely coincidentally a bunch of money and other benies for them.

The LIVs, as noted here hold to the arguments because they don't want to think, and liberals never require anyone to actually think...


Posted by: 18-1 at February 17, 2013 07:09 PM (zPVBH)

267 If something is a good idea, it's a good idea. It doesn't matter that person X voted for it because he saw it on a hot chick's T-shirt and person Y voted for it because he read Hayek front to back.

So yes, an ad campaign of the Constitution provocatively painted on naked swimsuit models would probably get a lot of people interested in the Constitution. Doesn't mean the Constitution is forever "dumbed down".

Posted by: Leigh Scott at February 17, 2013 07:10 PM (BRhVY)

268 Ya cain't fix stooopid.

Just get out of the way, as far away as you can, and try to survive it.

Posted by: Skandia Recluse at February 17, 2013 07:10 PM (qlzYC)

269 The real threat is the union of low information voters like Ace was talking about, and the tech people who can build a machine to take advantage of them and manipulate them

The Atlantic has an article about how Obama's tech team created their machine:
http://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2012/11/when-the-nerds-go-marching-in/265325/

Another look at this can be found here:
http://tinyurl.com/ad384to

The left is successful because they don't have to create a traditional voter turnout machine. Instead of having one dedicated precinct walker spend their whole day knocking on doors, the left has a million of people waste a few seconds re-tweeting or "liking" some leftist friendly meme.

They create a meme based culture where separate groups, companies, &c. arise and then build off of each others efforts. It is decentralized and can not be easily taken out, but it still works towards a unified goal without the need of unified command: It is a "stand alone complex":
http://tinyurl.com/adf5huy

Posted by: The Political Hat at February 17, 2013 07:10 PM (Vk2pI)

270 A politician goes where the voter leads it and not the other way around. Sure, we like to believe populations are swayed into a belief/ideology by skilled professional politicians, but that is illusion. The really good politicians with lots of tenure go exactly where the voter wants to go and pretty much no further. Our voters are leading politicians into the abyss.

In summary this country's elected officials reflect the voters and we have been trending Idiocracy for decades. Anecdotally, think about the SOTU address and its devolution. When it began, and this was for a country of laborers, farmers, and tradesmen (contemporary Red-Staters), the address read at around 20th-grade level English. SCoaMF's rated around 8th-grade. IOW it's been a linear decline since our founding despite all the technological advances and the ease with which to get any education desirable.

We reflect exactly what we want to reflect. Sure, the Moron Horde is an exceptional collection and there are other pockets where it's quite the insult to say "we" contributed to our demise; but the fact remains that we collectively mingle within vast numbers of true idiots and those so clueless to the collapse that those who would try to alter our national trajectory simply cannot in a democracy.

The Bonage will continue until morale improves.

Posted by: AnonymousDrivel at February 17, 2013 07:10 PM (eHIJJ)

271 If a "living wage" is legislated, then we can do
away with welfare, section 8 housing and all the other free shit that
they were getting, right?

Posted by: model_1066 at February 17, 2013 07:07 PM (7xPCu)



Hey, now, you're not supposed to think through to the second stage of the proposition. Who do you think you are questioning the wisdom of our leaders like that?

Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Take us away. at February 17, 2013 07:10 PM (Gk3SS)

272 From Drudge: United Nations reviewing asteroid impact threat...

Exactly what do they think they can realistically do to avert it? Consult with Ben Affleck?

Posted by: waldo at February 17, 2013 07:10 PM (6J6x7)

273 262 Al Gore is just a "Green" televangelist. Preaching against "sins" he commits daily.
Posted by: Flatbush Joe at February 17, 2013 07:07 PM (ZPrif)

I have a lib coworker who is the typical eco-tard, but doesn't go so far as to lecture everyone about it. I ask him that when AlGore tells us to use less energy, does he usually say that from his motorcade, his Gulfstream or one of his mansions that uses more power than a small town?

Posted by: model_1066 at February 17, 2013 07:10 PM (7xPCu)

274 "There is a concerted propaganda campaign now by the soviet media to erase the decades where the word "n-" was a staple of Democrat politics."

umm i dunno what exactly this has to do with current politics

were Nancy Pelosi and Robert Byrd best buds

Posted by: JDP at February 17, 2013 07:10 PM (8HhF2)

275 Conservatives are free thinkers,we try to persuade not manipulate

I don't even try to persuade. Just live my life, think for myself. People can choose to see the results of "living right" for themselves; and trust me, they do.

I wanted to share a little story with you guys from last week - I'm the culture-war trenches in a big way, having little kids in school (and no not public school either! the parish schools are just as bad where I am)

My son is a contrarian. he is a stubborn little guy. and it *hurts* him - and me - but he's developed quite a thick skin at all of 7. Last week they had a "bullying" program bs thing where the 8th graders went into the classes to talk about bullying. So his teacher calls on him (trust me, he didn't raise his hand) to answer "what should I do if I'm being bullied?"

and he says "Well, you should probably punch them."

She's all "no no no! come on now what SHOULD YOU DO?!?!"

he says "Ok. Punch them in the throat."

I got a note about it - "I asked him NO LESS THAN FOUR TIMES and he wouldn't change his horrible, awful, EVIL answer!"

I didn't even sign the note or say another word. They're used to me by now. Asking him over and over to make him "think right" - that's bullying.

Good for him. He's my little hero. He takes the punishment, he's quiet as a mouse, but he thinks for himself. It hurts him every day in the ultra-feminized, PC world of Elementary School. But that's what we do. Capisce?

Posted by: BlackOrchid-StillMissingDagny at February 17, 2013 07:11 PM (J6kXj)

276 13 After reading the Professor's post I've decided that we're fucked to the power of boned.
Posted by: John P. Squibob at February 17, 2013 05:36 PM (kqqGm)


Ain't that the truth....

Posted by: Jprs at February 17, 2013 07:11 PM (DGnMA)

277 233 kbdabear
Keep thinking that its free stuff why people vote Democrat. I know your rant makes you feel better, but its not reality.

Enjoy losing.

Posted by: Infinite Wisdom at February 17, 2013 07:11 PM (puDKn)

278 Well, if hot chicks and common sense win, check out commonsenseandchicks dot com.

Posted by: JohnJ at February 17, 2013 07:12 PM (Tt6ky)

279 Hopeless is right. Rather than going after the FSA, who often are pitiful and uneducated, let us go for the low hanging fruit which everyone despises.

So:

How much do you pay in taxes every year? $5000? Do you know your taxes went to pay for a study on the sex lives of lizards? Do you think we should continue to pay for this?

How much do you pay in student loans every month, Mr. Harvard graduate? $500? Well hey there, aren't you glad that money went to pay for Elizabeth Warren teaching ONE CLASS for $300,000? Did you take her class? Know anyone who did? Was it worth it?

Posted by: Miss Marple at February 17, 2013 07:12 PM (GoIUi)

280 Infinite Wisdom

you're obviously not a conservative so what's it to you

Posted by: JDP at February 17, 2013 07:13 PM (8HhF2)

281 Tell her Krugman also advised Enron.
***
Better yet, take James Taranto's construction and always refer to him as former Enron adviser Paul Krugman.

Posted by: 18-1 at February 17, 2013 07:13 PM (zPVBH)

282 156 torquewrench
Keep telling yourself that. Your attitude is a perfect example of why Republicans lose. The GOP is the party of defeat. Keep it up and soon a new Cenmter-Righty Party that belives in winning will be establishe. People do nly like associating with losers.

Posted by: Infinite Wisdom at February 17, 2013 07:13 PM (puDKn)

283 The good news? I'm almost empty.

Posted by: The American Cookie Jar at February 17, 2013 07:13 PM (vbh31)

284 I'm probably not alone in seeing that even though the lefties won the election, they're still as angry and bitter as ever. They cannot bear a world in which even one person on this earth thinks differently than they do.

They're fine with people looking different than them (at a distance of course), not because they feel it deep inside but because that's how they believe they're supposed to think in order to hold onto their communal membership

People who think differently cannot be tolerated and must be eliminated, even if there is one person in this world who is not a leftist. They boil with anger and foam at the mouth that ANY deviation from their world view is heard.

Why the anger? They lack the confidence of inner convictions, clinging to the approval of others for sustenance. Anger and fear that put up to any examination, their entire structure collapses

But it's so much more comforting to scream "racists!" and "haters!!" at dissidents and await the comforting adoration of their comrades

Posted by: kbdabear at February 17, 2013 07:14 PM (mCvL4)

285 I'm still of the believe that conservatives will be back in the WH by 2016 or 2020 simply for the fact that the donks will have hit rock bottom. Until then, bunker down!

Posted by: waldo at February 17, 2013 07:14 PM (6J6x7)

286 Bing/Google Al Gore NPR part of the problem is they can force us to advertise their message.

http://www.bing.com/search?q=Al+Gore+NPRform=MOZSBRpc=MOZI

Posted by: Buzzsaw at February 17, 2013 07:14 PM (qo244)

287 Yesterday, I was elected to make Lasagna for 8 people.
Easy peasy, but I think I learned something about politics.

It was one of those days where people dropped in unexpectedly, and I chatted with them in the kitchen. Two of these people were a young engaged couple, and I'd not met the future bride yet. Both are conservative Christians.

She said "I love to cook. I make new dishes all the time".
He said "Me, too, but I have to have a recipe. I'm just not creative enough to come up with anything on my own."

There's nothing wrong with either of the above two individuals.
It occurred to me that Democrats are the cooks that have to have strict recipes, though.

Me? I followed the recipe and added an ingredient or two that struck my fancy. Supper was fabulous.

Food for thought.

Posted by: jwb7605 (Let It Burn) at February 17, 2013 07:14 PM (Qxe/p)

288 So yes, an ad campaign of the Constitution provocatively painted on naked swimsuit models

Go on. . . .

Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Take us away. at February 17, 2013 07:14 PM (Gk3SS)

289 I think that the cat deal you had not long ago was good. Even idiots gets teh catz. So here is were we are. Progressives created these people on purpose. What we have allowed them to do is this. To create in a free country a new Caste of people. Low information, high self asteem, from purposefully broken families, who always vote one way. We have to stop with being such well mannered people when confronted with this. Do not accept their premises any longer. The GOP stabs are alllmost to the conclusion that this Barack fellow seems to have no intention of actually, y'know, make any kind of logical deal at all. Hmm. But more to your point, I think you should make a left side post. Hot and Easy Conservatism. With lolcats, bad photo shops, circle and arrows, puppets. Fill a blunderbuss with a conservative thought/principle/question, but hilarity is key. Strip them bare. Make it fly the internet like the wind. I sword thrust at a time. We have to learn the rules, and then play by them. We do not have to lose our souls. We need to be unapologetic about our views, and see that in our elected officials. Who prefer to call themselves our leaders. No longer accept their premise, make the voters accept ours.

Posted by: Cliff M at February 17, 2013 07:14 PM (JkC3y)

290 Sorry if this is a copycat or repeat but:

Low information voter: Banning guns is good.

High information voter: Buying guns is good.


This will only end one way.

If you're not smart enough to know that this is the time to arm yourself, you're not going to make it.


Posted by: Opus An Arcus at February 17, 2013 07:15 PM (YMFWl)

291 The link is useless in 286 just search it yourself.

Posted by: Buzzsaw at February 17, 2013 07:15 PM (qo244)

292 People do nly like associating with losers.


Posted by: Infinite Wisdom at February 17, 2013 07:13 PM (puDKn)


And THAT'S why you never get invited to the GOOD parties, sport.

Posted by: Low-info leftard at February 17, 2013 07:15 PM (673KB)

293 Hell pull some of your classics off twitter and slap it on a cat.

Posted by: Cliff M at February 17, 2013 07:15 PM (JkC3y)

294 280 JDP
I believe in individualism and Free Market Capitalism. How would you describe that belief system,? I know Conservatives to some means someone obsessed with abortion, gays and culture wars, but my main concern is personal and economic freedom.

So no, I am not a Conservative by today's standard.

Posted by: Infinite Wisdom at February 17, 2013 07:16 PM (puDKn)

295 Off, damn sock!

Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon at February 17, 2013 07:18 PM (673KB)

296 284 kdbear

"People who think differently cannot be tolerated and must be eliminated"

Sounds like today's Conservative movement.

Posted by: Infinite Wisdom at February 17, 2013 07:18 PM (puDKn)

297 "How would you describe that belief system"

libertarianism

and also a belief system that in its pure form does not appeal to the people you say "hate us," who do not view the state as inherently evil

so you must be a lah-oo-zer.

Posted by: JDP at February 17, 2013 07:19 PM (8HhF2)

298
I am thinking of writing a post on my site about how conformist this
generation of kids is and how short their attention span is.
***
I think this is a decent line of attack.

Oh, you watch Jon Stewart just like all the other good little boys and girls? How...average. Yeah, I read about that before Stewart stole it for his show on this thing called the internet. But, you know if your want someone else to spoon feed you.

I've actually used a variant before...and it does work.

Posted by: 18-1 at February 17, 2013 07:19 PM (zPVBH)

299 I know Conservatives to some means someone obsessed
with abortion, gays and culture wars, but my main concern is personal
and economic freedom.

So no, I am not a Conservative by today's standard.


Posted by: Infinite Wisdom at February 17, 2013 07:16 PM (puDKn)



According to whom, sweetie, you? Because, you see, there are a metric fuckton of the Horde who do not define conservative as someone obsessed with abortion, gays and the culture wars.


Here. I'll just give you this lighter because I pretty damn sure yours must be out of lighter fluid, what with those fields of strawmen you insist upon burning.

Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Take us away. at February 17, 2013 07:20 PM (Gk3SS)

300 as flawed as liberalism is it is at least a vision for the broader society. same with conservatism.

libertarianism in pure form gets you Ron Paul, who generalizes "state bad, individual good" into a one-size-fits-all worldview

Posted by: JDP at February 17, 2013 07:21 PM (8HhF2)

301 Sounds like today's Conservative movement.


Posted by: Infinite Wisdom at February 17, 2013 07:18 PM (puDKn)


Sounds like a cartoon you have playing in your otherwise empty head.

Posted by: Captain Hate at February 17, 2013 07:21 PM (z2ENc)

302 Sounds like today's Conservative movement.

You're not worth it, but they switched the golf playoff to cable so......wth... tell me, who squashes dissent?

"I had to welcome the coffins of those four dead people that were killed in my sleep sir! How dare you!!"


You have a cartoon conservative in your head and it makes you look like a spaz.

Posted by: Opus An Arcus at February 17, 2013 07:21 PM (YMFWl)

303 297 JDP
You are wrong. Republicans are not perceived as pro Freedom, they are perceived as statists. To the average voter both Democrats and Republicans are for Government interference in their lives. They just differ what aspect of their lives the gov will intervene. Republicans are viewed as busy bodies who want to impose their religious views on others.

Posted by: Infinite Wisdom at February 17, 2013 07:22 PM (puDKn)

304 When was the last time anybody asked a Democrat about Guam tipping over?

***
Yep.

The Republican response to Todd Akin's foot in mouth disease should have been Obama's votes against infants born alive legislation and Kermit Gosnell.

Don't address your opposition's arguments. Attack him with your own.

It is what works.

Posted by: 18-1 at February 17, 2013 07:22 PM (zPVBH)

305 Damn, that's creepy Captain hate.

Posted by: Opus An Arcus at February 17, 2013 07:22 PM (YMFWl)

306 Libertarianism can occasionally get, on a good day, almost 5% of the American voting public to agree.

America is also, by far, the most libertarian country left. It gets about 1% in the rest of the world.

Good luck winning an election -- any election -- with Libertarianism.

Hope you got your Civil Rights Act answer down pat.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at February 17, 2013 07:23 PM (ZPrif)

307 302 Opus An Arcus
Read the above comments. I am disagreeing with some on here and its getting people upset. Conservatives live in an echo chamber now.

Posted by: Infinite Wisdom at February 17, 2013 07:23 PM (puDKn)

308 We're over thinking this I believe. The left in 1992 had a chance to repudiate someone they blamed everything from AIDS to diarrhea and everything in between. They lost out in 1988 due to an idiot running against the old man. During the 90's all sorts of leftist dogma reared its ugly head, the House was taken by the Republicans in 1994. To me it is nothing but history repeating itself. The left hated Bush junior with the same intensity they hated Reagan and they set about doing something about it and nominated some dumbass half-black guy who would have had to resort to cheating just to get elected dogcatcher in most times. These weren't most times. The left will overplay their hand just like they historically have done with their illiterate histrionics soon enough and the either somewhat Conservatives or actual Conservatives will come back to pick up the pieces. Then the left will go back to doing what they do best, fist-fucking their partners while peeing on them and doing everything they can to undermine the Republicans. Lather rinse repeat.

Posted by: Samuel Adams at February 17, 2013 07:23 PM (ZOf1l)

309 I'm not sure I'm pleased I was first or not, Arctus.

Posted by: Captain Hate at February 17, 2013 07:24 PM (z2ENc)

310 Only abortion, gheyness, pop culture and free shit can save this country!

Posted by: Infinitely Clueless at February 17, 2013 07:24 PM (vbh31)

311 306 Flatbush Joe
Yeah because ranting about abortions, gays and immigrants is really winning elections!

Posted by: Infinite Wisdom at February 17, 2013 07:24 PM (puDKn)

312 Inf. Wisdom. I think you know as much about what the average voter thinks as you know about what a vagina feels like.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at February 17, 2013 07:24 PM (ZPrif)

313 "They just differ what aspect of their lives the gov will intervene"

ok Hector so if people are OK with the state intervening in certain aspects -- like Obamacare which is popular with Hispanics -- how exactly do you plan on your personal Individual, Free Market vision going over well?

you're just extrapolating your personal biases onto what you think other people want, same thing you're critiquing others for.

Posted by: JDP at February 17, 2013 07:24 PM (8HhF2)

314 there are two (at least) strategeries for combating the snarky, hipster douchebag world:
1) moar lee atwater. attack, attack, attack
***
I can't help but noting that when conservatives have made a concerted effort to attack the left - 2002, 2004, 2010...they win. When they try to appear "nice" and moderate they lose.


Posted by: 18-1 at February 17, 2013 07:24 PM (zPVBH)

315 that Romney, he sure was a ranter

Posted by: JDP at February 17, 2013 07:25 PM (8HhF2)

316 280
Infinite Wisdom



you're obviously not a conservative so what's it to you

Posted by: JDP at February 17, 2013 07:13 PM

IW is another lefty who wakes up angry that conservatives exist

Posted by: kbdabear at February 17, 2013 07:26 PM (mCvL4)

317 Conservatives live in an echo chamber now.

If you echo something that you heard in an echo chamber ABOUT an echo chamber, is it like putting two mirrors across from each other?

Posted by: Opus An Arcus at February 17, 2013 07:26 PM (YMFWl)

318 I'm in that 5% of libertarians. I just admit my preferred policies are fringe and not supported by anything close to a majority. So I seek to make common cause with right-leaning groups to fashion a majority.

Oh wait, no, I should spend my time insulting the religious beliefs of the half of the country who broadly agree with me.

Infinite genius!

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at February 17, 2013 07:26 PM (ZPrif)

319 If you echo something that you heard in an echo
chamber ABOUT an echo chamber, is it like putting two mirrors across
from each other?

Posted by: Opus An Arcus at February 17, 2013 07:26 PM (YMFWl)



Turtles, man, turtles.

Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Take us away. at February 17, 2013 07:27 PM (Gk3SS)

320 I know this is not a popular to say thios on blogs, but to many
Americans, they do not want to hear about abortion, gays,.
contraceptives or culture wars.
***
The last time the Republicans won a presidential election there were two major issues: Abortion and the WoT.

That's also the last time the right actually fought back on abortion during a presidential election.

I know...coincidental...right?

Posted by: 18-1 at February 17, 2013 07:27 PM (zPVBH)

321 "He's my little hero. He takes the punishment, he's quiet as a mouse, but
he thinks for himself. It hurts him every day in the ultra-feminized,
PC world of Elementary School."

Elementary school isn't a place where this kind of defiance will end up hurting his lifetime prospects. Once he gets to high school, it really starts to matter. Don't think for a second that teachers are so "professional" that they won't use bad grades to punish wrongthink which deviates from leftist orthodoxy.

If you love that kid, you should move heaven and earth to get him out of that situation.

Posted by: torquewrench at February 17, 2013 07:28 PM (gqT4g)

322 313 JDP
My name is not Hector, so address me correctly.

As for Hispanics supporting Obamacare, that is due to the Republicans telling them to FOAD. They view Democrats as their friends and protectors and trust anything they do. That is why they support Obamacare, because they view Democrats as their friends.

Posted by: Infinite Wisdom at February 17, 2013 07:29 PM (puDKn)

323 spaz.

Posted by: Opus An Arcus at February 17, 2013 07:29 PM (YMFWl)

324 The Democrats get their propaganda out on social media and tailor their
message to specific groups. Republicans use a one size fots all and do
not target specific demographics.
***
Actually it is far, far worse then that.

The left produces talking points, sends them to their politicians and activists and ostracizes anyone who doesn't go along.

The right argues among itself, and Republican politicians do whatever they feel is in their own immediate self interest which produces the likes of Scott "Kennedy Seat" Brown and the Maine sisters...

Posted by: 18-1 at February 17, 2013 07:29 PM (zPVBH)

325 Infinite Wisdom: "Republicans are viewed as busy bodies who want to impose their religious views on others."

And that's exactly what I expect from an Idiocracy so lemmingish that it perpetuates such a lazy, templated construct. Their perceptions are worth exactly sh*t because they like living in the box others have built for them. If their "betters" told them to jump off a cliff, they'd ask, a) "How high?" and b) "When does 'The Daily Show' come on?" Now, what to do about those who cannot see truth? I don't know. We've tried to teach them but, overall, they remain impervious to reason for reasons only known by they themselves.

Posted by: AnonymousDrivel at February 17, 2013 07:30 PM (eHIJJ)

326 320 18-1

Bush won because Kerry was a pathetic candidate. Unemployment was at 5% and the economy was growing. Go ahead and run on abortion in 2016 and see what happens.

Posted by: Infinite Wisdom at February 17, 2013 07:30 PM (puDKn)

327 They cannot bear a world in which even one person on this earth thinks differently than they do.
_________________________

Yep. A good example is Deepak Chopra, new-age guru. His books all preach that people should be "non-judgmental." Yet read some of his past columns about Sarah Palin and see how "non-judgmental" he is about her. He insinuates that she is stupid, and that she is motivated by greed.

Chopra has probably never even met or spoken with Sarah Palin, but because he disagrees with her political views, he assumes that she must be both evil and stupid. Because only an evil and/or stupid person could ever have a point of view that differs from Chopra's, naturally.

But Chopra will go on making millions of dollars, preaching his message of love and tolerance and non-judgment.

And he'll be outrageously outraged if anyone dares to accuse him of hypocrisy (not that there is much chance of that -- and even if someone did point it out, the MSM would never report it).

Posted by: Observer at February 17, 2013 07:30 PM (/sohm)

328 People do nly like associating with losers.


Posted by: Infinite Wisdom at February 17, 2013 07:13 PM

Thank you for explaining why you're sitting alone right now

Posted by: kbdabear at February 17, 2013 07:31 PM (mCvL4)

329 324 18-1
Republicans have no message discipline.

Posted by: Infinite Wisdom at February 17, 2013 07:31 PM (puDKn)

330 Blarg deblargie blarg. Republicans suck. Do what I say cause you suck. Fuck aboritons. Christianity is the loser. Blarg deblarg.

Posted by: Infinite Hector at February 17, 2013 07:32 PM (ZPrif)

331 More socon-ficon fratricide we don't need.

We know who the enemy is. We know what items we agree on.

We need to be hammering on these retards with as much ridicule as we can muster, and as much dirty fighting as we can bring to bear.

We need to sell the message. Or else the Democrats get to go home and fuck the prom queen in 2016.

We can argue with each other about policy details later.

Posted by: Kristophr at February 17, 2013 07:32 PM (wYVte)

332 328 kbdabear
I have a social life and a great circle of fiends and and family. Thank you for your concern.

Posted by: Infinite Wisdom at February 17, 2013 07:33 PM (puDKn)

333 326
320 18-1

Bush won because Kerry was a pathetic candidate.
Unemployment was at 5% and the economy was growing. Go ahead and run on
abortion in 2016 and see what happens.


Posted by: Infinite Wisdom at February 17, 2013 07:30 PM

What if we run on support for Israel?

(YKWIDH)

Posted by: kbdabear at February 17, 2013 07:33 PM (mCvL4)

334 Infinite Wisdom: Republicans have no message discipline.




This is the only correct thing you have said today, in my opinion.

Posted by: Kristophr at February 17, 2013 07:33 PM (wYVte)

335 when we didn't STOMP on the socialist saboteurs who intentionally
destroyed the public education system (then the private one, soon
after), we missed the chance to prevent Low Information Voters from
reaching critical mass.
***
I'd say the last responsible moment was Rathergate.

The State Media got caught in a coup by fraudulent documents and the Republican establishment did nothing.

The left realized there was *nothing* stopping them from doing anything to advance their goals. And so we've seen the complete integration of the left and the state media since Obama became president.


Posted by: 18-1 at February 17, 2013 07:34 PM (zPVBH)

336 Look, I hate to say it, but even though IW sounds like a dick, he's right that that's what a lot of people who aren't libertarian/conservative do think. In particular, it's what the low-info self-described "moderates" believe.

Posted by: JeremiadBullfrog at February 17, 2013 07:34 PM (Y5I9o)

337 Can we give Clarence and Hector, aka Herbert and "infinite wisdom" their own thread where they can blow eachother and leave us all the fuck alone?

Posted by: Jeremiah's Intel TV at February 17, 2013 07:34 PM (GULKT)

338 "We lost the vote war because of two things, the FSA likes their free
shit and we keep nominating "moderate" lackluster candidates who do not
inspire people to get off their ass and vote."


I don't know. If the FSA is such a problem, than why would nominating some kind of conservative warrior check that? Romney lost promising to cut Big Bird. Now a guy with real conservative creds won't freak the FSA out?

I try to push back against "blame the (Republican) Establishment" arguments because I think it stops us from examining the country and the parties. We could very well be a vocal minority among righties who are fine with "not as left as the left." We like to point out that the Democrats like to throw pork around to buy votes, than pretend that we can remove it without hurting people. Tough, we'd say here, but people still have families regardless.

I think going off the cliff is just inevitable at this point.

Posted by: Shoot Me at February 17, 2013 07:34 PM (qiXMt)

339 325 AnonymousDrivel
Does Santorum ruing a bell? He is openly against individual freedom.

Posted by: Infinite Wisdom at February 17, 2013 07:34 PM (puDKn)

340 I have a social life and a great circle of fiends and and family.


You were in Despicable Me?

HA!

Posted by: Opus An Arcus at February 17, 2013 07:34 PM (YMFWl)

341 332
328 kbdabear
I have a social life and a great circle of fiends and and family. Thank you for your concern.


Posted by: Infinite Wisdom at February 17, 2013 07:33 PM

Hey, want to double date with me and my girlfriend?

Posted by: palin steele at February 17, 2013 07:34 PM (mCvL4)

342 341 palin steele

LOL!

Posted by: Infinite Wisdom at February 17, 2013 07:36 PM (puDKn)

343 I have a social life and a great circle of fiends and and family.

Gosh, Hector. We feel the same way about you, too!

Posted by: The Star Wars Cantina Gang at February 17, 2013 07:36 PM (vbh31)

344 People who spend most of their time attacking Republicans are... Democrats. If this describes you, then maybe you should reconsider your tactics.

If you're not attacking the proponents of bad ideas, then you're helping them.

Posted by: JohnJ at February 17, 2013 07:37 PM (Tt6ky)

345 388 Shoot Me
You are the only one whose comments reflect reality.

Posted by: Infinite Wisdom at February 17, 2013 07:37 PM (puDKn)

346
Where's Neidermeyer? She inspired me to unfollow a bunch of annoying conservatives on twitter who never stfu.

Posted by: waldo at February 17, 2013 07:37 PM (6J6x7)

347 332
328 kbdabear
I have a social life and a great circle of fiends and and family. Thank you for your concern.


Posted by: Infinite Wisdom at February 17, 2013 07:33 PM

Let's see, hang out with people I enjoy or troll a blog to annoy people because there's nothing else to do and nothing on TV ...



Posted by: kbdabear at February 17, 2013 07:38 PM (mCvL4)

348 Shoot Me: I think going off the cliff is just inevitable at this point.



Only if we fail to man up, start acting like adults and try to sell the product instead of blaming the consumer for not buying.

Posted by: Kristophr at February 17, 2013 07:38 PM (wYVte)

349 In particular, it's what the low-info self-described "moderates" believe.

Posted by: JeremiadBullfrog at February 17, 2013 07:34 PM (Y5I9o)

Yes, but that's because Democrats are good liars. Try rereading the post at the top.

Posted by: JohnJ at February 17, 2013 07:38 PM (Tt6ky)

350 Wow Shoot Me, looks like you just won the Cyber Warrior Medal of Honor.

What are you going to wear?


*kidding

Posted by: Opus An Arcus at February 17, 2013 07:38 PM (YMFWl)

351 "The last time the Republicans won a presidential election there were two major issues: Abortion and the WoT. That's also the last time the right actually fought back on abortion during a presidential election."

In case you didn't notice, abortion was an enormous national issue in 2012. To the immense detriment of the GOP.

Look no further than Akin and Mourdock. Abortion -- that one issue -- took what should have been easy, walk in the park wins and turned them into horrible shutout losses once those two guys started flapping their jaws.

The last time the GOP had a solidly consistent winning message on a single subject was the 2010 midterm election. The message then was "Where are the jobs, Mr. President?" Consistent GOP message discipline across the board on a popular topic. Result? Nancy Pelosi losing the Speaker's gavel she so adored.

The Democrats were desperate not to repeat the 2010 disaster in 2012. They had to change the subject somehow in a way that would galvanize their base. So they dangled culture war bait in front of the socons in the ridiculous person of Sandra Fluke. Fluke should have been totally ignored as the nonentity she is, and the previous winning formula of "Where are the jobs, Mr. President?" reapplied with double pressure.

Instead, that fat idiot Limbaugh bit down on the bait and went after Fluke instead of ignoring her. Various socon luminaries followed suit, and it was culture-war Game On from then through the election day. A game the GOP came out on the wrong side of.

Posted by: torquewrench at February 17, 2013 07:39 PM (gqT4g)

352 (unless it's a rich athlete or celebrity, then they're wonderful and it's none of your business how much they pay in taxes)
***
Another line of attack I'd like to see the Republican attempt - taxes on Hollwood and the like.

Make the Democrats defend protecting Matt Damon's millions while he is telling everyone *they* should pay more in taxes.

Posted by: 18-1 at February 17, 2013 07:39 PM (zPVBH)

353 Shoot Me: I think going off the cliff is just inevitable at this point.



Only if we fail to man up, start acting like adults and try to sell the product instead of blaming the consumer for not buying.


Posted by: Kristophr at February 17, 2013 07:38 PM (wYVte)

So you agree it's a certainty at this point, then?

Posted by: JohnJ at February 17, 2013 07:39 PM (Tt6ky)

354 @torquewrench

You're blaming Republicans for something that is primarily the media's fault.

Posted by: JohnJ at February 17, 2013 07:41 PM (Tt6ky)

355 344 JohnJ
Maybe there are some on the right who want a viable Republican Party that can win elections. My criticism with today's Republican party is how a loud motuth minority has the party scared of it and prevents them from doing what is needed to win elections. Just look at the comments here and see how disconnected from reality and how hateful this minority is.

Posted by: Infinite Wisdom at February 17, 2013 07:41 PM (puDKn)

356 339 325 AnonymousDrivel
Does Santorum ruing a bell? He is openly against individual freedom.
Posted by: Infinite Wisdom at February 17, 2013 07:34 PM (puDKn)
-----

Again, IW's right. The irony is that the GOP is appreiciably big tent enough that the Dems have been able to pick a boogeyman for each of their constituent groups to hammer in. To secular mods/libertarian, the GOP is all Santorums all the way down. To Hispanic immigrants, it's all Arpaios. To conservatives, it's Establishment Rockefellers. To urbanites, it's all Palins. To small businesspeople, it's vampiric Romneys.

Divide and conquer

Posted by: JeremiadBullfrog at February 17, 2013 07:41 PM (Y5I9o)

357 Infinite Wisdom: "Does Santorum ruing a bell? He is openly against individual freedom."

Does SCoaMF ring a bell? He is openly against individual freedom.

IOW, what's your point? And which individual freedom, BTW, are you considering? And if you mean abortion for example, well, there is the neonate's/child's freedom to be considered.

Posted by: AnonymousDrivel at February 17, 2013 07:41 PM (eHIJJ)

358 This fits with Ace's theory on why paper Newsweek was so popular. To paraphrase, it was a physical image of "being smart" people could leave lying around.

People are dumb.


Posted by: Tonic Dog at February 17, 2013 05:34 PM

Yep. There's also a line in Big Bang Theory where Bernadette is talking about how much smarter she is than Howard. She defines her being smart by the fact that she listens to NPR. Personally, if I find out someone gets their info from NPR, I immediately assume they're ignorant idiots.

Penny: No, it was great. He just didnít really challenge me on an intellectual level.

Bernadette: Couldnít you just fool around with him and then listen to NPR?

Penny: Wouldnít help. Zack canít even spell NPR.

Bernadette: Itís what I do with Howard. Iím much smarter than he is. But itís important to protect his manhood.

Posted by: Clyde Shelton at February 17, 2013 07:41 PM (vUK/h)

359 345

Piss. Off.

Posted by: Shoot Me at February 17, 2013 07:42 PM (qiXMt)

360 351 torquewrench
I agree with everything you said!

Posted by: Infinite Wisdom at February 17, 2013 07:42 PM (puDKn)

361 @Infinite Wisdom

The only comments that are hateful and disconnected from reality that I see are coming from you.

Posted by: JohnJ at February 17, 2013 07:43 PM (Tt6ky)

362
Politics--totally corrupt,
The Judicial System--a farce,
Education--has become indoctrination.
Tell me where we're heading. Society is led by the pages of People magazine.

Posted by: Libra at February 17, 2013 07:43 PM (cMWZ+)

363 Trolls be trolling. They be concerned now.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at February 17, 2013 07:44 PM (ZPrif)

364 348 Kristophr
You get it and I applaud what you wrote. Too many of the yahoos on this blog are self righteous and could care less if they lose.

Posted by: Infinite Wisdom at February 17, 2013 07:44 PM (puDKn)

365 Yes, but that's because Democrats are good liars. Try rereading the post at the top.
Posted by: JohnJ at February 17, 2013 07:38 PM (Tt6ky)
----

Um, thanks for being a dick. Do you propose we start to lie just as much?

Posted by: JeremiadBullfrog at February 17, 2013 07:44 PM (Y5I9o)

366 well... given that bernadette is a ph.d. in biochemistry I don't thinks he defines herself as smart based on NPR-listening. She just meant "get your intellectual stimulation elsewhere, then."

And she thinks she's smarter than Howard because she's a doctor and he's not, and she makes a great deal more money than he does.

(Everyone knocks poor Howard for not being a doctor... even penny.)

Posted by: ace at February 17, 2013 07:44 PM (LCRYB)

367 ok so if porn is liked by both left men and right men, maybe a seductive way to introduce left men to some conservative thought. Like ok i look that good, this is exciting yes> i want cash up front (capitalism and have to pay for the sheets and ambiance ) and i will take you places you will never forget.

Posted by: willow-ette at February 17, 2013 07:45 PM (nqBYe)

368 261 JohnJ
Read the comments on this blog on a daily basis. The hate here is really disgusting.

Posted by: Infinite Wisdom at February 17, 2013 07:45 PM (puDKn)

369 360
351 torquewrench
I agree with everything you said!


Posted by: Infinite Wisdom at February 17, 2013 07:42 PM

Infinite Johnson is RIGHT !!!

Posted by: Howard Johnson at February 17, 2013 07:45 PM (mCvL4)

370 snort sorry.

pours alex a long island ice tea.

Posted by: willow-ette at February 17, 2013 07:46 PM (nqBYe)

371 Um, thanks for being a dick. Do you propose we start to lie just as much?

Posted by: JeremiadBullfrog at February 17, 2013 07:44 PM (Y5I9o)

You're welcome. I've already put forth my view that America can't be saved elsewhere. I suggest making other plans.

Posted by: JohnJ at February 17, 2013 07:46 PM (Tt6ky)

372 368
261 JohnJ
Read the comments on this blog on a daily basis. The hate here is really disgusting.


Posted by: Infinite Wisdom at February 17, 2013 07:45 PM

I'm going to ask you a question that requires independent thought, so it might be difficult to actually answer without stringing bumper stickers together, so here goes ...

WHY ... ARE ... YOU ... HERE ?

Posted by: kbdabear at February 17, 2013 07:47 PM (mCvL4)

373 Howard Johnson is RIGHT about Infinite Johnson being right!

Posted by: JohnJ Johnson at February 17, 2013 07:47 PM (Tt6ky)

374 368 261 JohnJ
Read the comments on this blog on a daily basis. The hate here is really disgusting.
Posted by: Infinite Wisdom at February 17, 2013 07:45 PM (puDKn)
-----

Dude, you need to chill. This blog's comments mostly are a place to blow off steam because we constantly get the shaft in the media.

That said, IW is right that people who don't know that, will end up getting the impression that people here are pissed about.

I know a "moderate" who will never vote GOP because some Lefties played him some audio of Rush making fun of something he cared about. I'm not saying Rush was wrong, but it's back to the point of the post: we're playing in the realm of ideas, whereas the Left is playing in the realm of pre-rational, emotionalized, tribal identification.

Posted by: JeremiadBullfrog at February 17, 2013 07:49 PM (Y5I9o)

375 372 kbdabear
To challenge the Reactionaries here and burst the bubble of the echo chamber.

Posted by: Infinite Wisdom at February 17, 2013 07:49 PM (puDKn)

376 Go ahead and run on abortion in 2016 and see what happens.
***
Meh, run a conservative platform - across the board - and win.


Posted by: 18-1 at February 17, 2013 07:49 PM (zPVBH)

377 "You are wrong. Here's a link to the specific text section of the legislation you're talking about and it doesn't support what you say." is pretty much a conversation ender.
The downside is YOU have to pretty much become an expert about whatever is under discussion and have all the unimpeachable original source material at your finger tips. You'll have to use FBI/DOJ data and never anything from the media which often misstates and distorts everything.
They don't challenge data or law cites from the government.
Posted by: @PurpAv at February 17, 2013 06:22 PM (1rU+d)


THIS.

It would be nice if someone with the time and energy could actually compile a database of facts and examples, and then put that into an app that would allow people to readily search for just that type of irrefutable information.

Posted by: The Political Hat at February 17, 2013 07:50 PM (Vk2pI)

378 I also agree with the diabetic Wisdom. Wise words flow from his neuropathic fingertips and in his morbidly obese, lipid-clogged veins. I'm concerned about all the hate directed towards him Truly we live in a sad world when men like him, rendered an impotent half-man through no fault of his own other than a love of Oreo McFlurrys, are mocked with scorn and loathing.

I thank him for sharing his wisdom in this vale of tears.

Posted by: Infinite Hector at February 17, 2013 07:50 PM (ZPrif)

379 374 JeremiadBullfrog
Its the rhetoric that turns people off to Republicans. But many on here do not grasp that. There are whole regions of the country and demographic groups are convinced Republicans hate them because of the rhetoric.

Conservative give the media ammo that they use against them.

Posted by: Infinite Wisdom at February 17, 2013 07:51 PM (puDKn)

380 You're welcome. I've already put forth my view that America can't be saved elsewhere. I suggest making other plans.
Posted by: JohnJ at February 17, 2013 07:46 PM (Tt6ky)
----
ok, so you're just here to piss in everyone's snowcones. Wonderful. I'll bet you feel pretty smart.

Posted by: JeremiadBullfrog at February 17, 2013 07:51 PM (Y5I9o)

381 Does Santorum ruing a bell? He is openly against individual freedom.
Posted by: Infinite Wisdom at February 17, 2013 07:34 PM (puDKn)

I'm sympathetic to SoCons, but I really hate Santorum because he's a bad ambassador for it.

He scolds people like me who, while orthodox Christian, don't believe the state has a legitimate mandate(or ability) to fix things beyond the bare minimum to keep society from destroying itself.

Posted by: HoboJerky, now with 75% more Assault & at February 17, 2013 07:51 PM (FsUAO)

382 Always been a source of frustration for me, that counterarguments to bumper sticker slogans often require no little effort in setting up, let alone explain.

"Visualize World Peace" should be easy to discredit, but it takes lengthy dissertations. . .

Posted by: Pug Mahon, who digs electrolytes at February 17, 2013 05:35 PM

Bill Whittle did a great piece back in 2004, I think, where he completely dismantles the idiocy of the liberals' bumper stickers:

Seeing the Unseen

http://bit.ly/KaPWJx

"Bush Lied, People Died."

Recent reports of the advanced state of the Iraqi nuclear weapons program, and the confirmed presence of 700+ chemical shells leaves this chestnut in some disarray. However, even if you take that away, the entire concept is a cowardly and petty retreat spoken by people who know better.

Here is a pretty decent encapsulation of what both Republicans and Democrats had to say about Saddam and WMD's. You will find Bush's and Rumsfeld's rhetoric somewhat less adamant and warlike than that of Mr. and Mrs. Clinton, John Kerry, John Edwards, Al Gore, Robert Byrd, Nancy Pelosi, Hans Blix, Madeline Albright, Sandy Berger and all the rest. These were elected representatives who studied the same intelligence that the White House did, and came to the same conclusion.

Unfortunately for them, Al Gore in his unbridled enthusiasm went and invented the Internet, and so now there is a record of what they said and when, available to the great unwashed masses. It shows a group of people deeply concerned about what was a pressing threat to this country. And now, almost all of them claim they were lied to? Are they capable of reading intelligence reports themselves, or did Bush have to read it to them aloud, with them seated at his knee in My Pet Goat fashion, skipping the parts he didn't think would make a good sell? Some people say that they did not get the same intelligence that Bush got. To the degree that is or isn't true, the record shows that it was the more outlandish claims that were not included, so that the intelligence that led them to come out against Saddam and in favor of military action was less provocative than the intelligence the President and Secretaries of State and Defense saw.

The invasion of Iraq was meant to prevent Saddam Hussein from using Weapons of Mass Destruction. This mission was accomplished by the time President Bush stood on that carrier deck. The huge majority of casualties we have incurred in the occupation and reconstruction of Iraq have come about by our willingness to rebuild and secure a country that we owed nothing to whatsoever.

Here is the legacy of the Bush Lied, People Died crowd: in the future, we know that no good deeds -- building of hundreds of schools and hospitals -- will go reported. We know that no foul deeds -- a handful of idiots humiliating prisoners over the course of a few days -- will ever be put into perspective.

So why do it? Why build schools and hospitals, and protect polling places, and suffer the casualties we have suffered to get a country on its feet, if all we hear and see is the negative and the undeniable failures? The next time we have to go and kick the hell out of some band of rabid crazies, why not just kick the hell out of them and then go home? Because there will be a next time, and I suspect sooner rather than later. By refusing to report the myriad successes and kindnesses, our compassionate and caring moral betters in the media have only shown there is very little reason to do them in the first place, except for the satisfaction of our own morality and conscience -- which I hope will be enough.

Let me leave you with something very, very important. It is the greatest logical fallacy of them all, and if you hope to gain any perspective in the world today, I believe you have to understand what I am about to say in your bones.

You cannot just count the hits and not record the misses.

May I show you something to make this point? ...

Posted by: Clyde Shelton at February 17, 2013 07:51 PM (vUK/h)

383 I'll bet you feel pretty smart.

Posted by: JeremiadBullfrog at February 17, 2013 07:51 PM (Y5I9o)

The only thing I know is that I know nothing.
That, and liberals are evil.

Posted by: JohnJ Johnson at February 17, 2013 07:52 PM (Tt6ky)

384 Read the comments on this blog on a daily basis. The hate here is really disgusting.




Posted by: Infinite Wisdom at February 17, 2013 07:45 PM

mm just like porn, can't.stay.away. .





anyway.. how about using porn as a facilitator , or will actually having a storyline wreck the heavy breathing fantasy?

Posted by: willow-ette at February 17, 2013 07:52 PM (nqBYe)

385 Make the Democrats defend protecting Matt Damon's millions while he is telling everyone *they* should pay more in taxes.


Posted by: 18-1 at February 17, 2013 07:39 PM

Leftists, especially the LIV will scream all day about "making the rich pay more, THEY can afford it".

Ask them "why don't you demand that Katy Perry pay more" and they'll slam into reverse so fast that the drive shaft flies through a nearby Starbucks window

"She's soooo talented and great and nice, she deserves her money and you're just hating on her! Besides, why do you care how much money she makes, it's none of your business, you're just jealous and a hater"

Posted by: kbdabear at February 17, 2013 07:52 PM (mCvL4)

386 I can haz socialzm!!1!

Posted by: LOL-voter at February 17, 2013 07:52 PM (Vk2pI)

387 379 374 JeremiadBullfrog
Its the rhetoric that turns people off to Republicans. But many on here do not grasp that. There are whole regions of the country and demographic groups are convinced Republicans hate them because of the rhetoric.

Conservative give the media ammo that they use against them.
Posted by: Infinite Wisdom at February 17, 2013 07:51 PM (puDKn)
------

Uh...IW, if you actually hung around this blog as much as you say you do, you'd know that an enormous amount of virtual ink has been spilled here saying precisely that. People are getting pissed off at you because you sound like a child who's wandered into the middle of a movie and wants to know what's going on (cf. Sobchak).

Posted by: JeremiadBullfrog at February 17, 2013 07:53 PM (Y5I9o)

388 Can I LIV do this?!!?

&&&

Posted by: Honey BooBoo Proletariat at February 17, 2013 07:54 PM (FsUAO)

389 381 HoboJerky, now with 75%
I agree with everything you said. Socons have legitimate gripes, but people like Santorum give them a bad image.

Posted by: Infinite Wisdom at February 17, 2013 07:54 PM (puDKn)

390 If the GOP just embraced queerness, abortion, gun control, unlimited immigration and socialism, then maybe we would WIN elections!!!!!!

Posted by: Low Info Voter at February 17, 2013 07:54 PM (hZeRK)

391 DRUDGE REPORT ‏@DRUDGE_REPORT

Leading Geneticist: Human Intelligence Slowly Declining... http://drudge.tw/12Z1o4D


QED

Posted by: Jones in CO at February 17, 2013 07:54 PM (8sCoq)

392 i can't stop loving yooou, i've made up my mind. to live in memories of the lonesome time.

Posted by: willow-ette at February 17, 2013 07:55 PM (nqBYe)

393 "You are wrong. Here's a link to the specific text section of the
legislation you're talking about and it doesn't support what you say."
is pretty much a conversation ender.

The downside is YOU have to pretty much become an expert about
whatever is under discussion and have all the unimpeachable original
source material at your finger tips. You'll have to use FBI/DOJ data and
never anything from the media which often misstates and distorts
everything.

They don't challenge data or law cites from the government.

Posted by: @PurpAv at February 17, 2013 06:22 PM (1rU+d)



Bullshit. I've done that with actual texts in front of me that I've handed to the person and it doesn't make one bit of difference. The Platonic ideal of this is Sarah Palin saying she can see Russia from her house. I've dragged people over to the computer and made them watch Tina Fey say it and they flatly refuse to believe it.


Hell, apparently there's an AP story that went out today based on a transcript of Rand Paul on a Fox News show where the transcript left out a don't and thus the story was written based on the transcript saying exactly the opposite of what Paul said. Even with the killstory notice from the AP, it's too late. The first version is out there and there's nothing that can be done to change all the snark about it. The actual real fact that he said exactly the opposite of the reporting is completely irrelevant.


Oh and techgeek thread up.



Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Take us away. at February 17, 2013 07:55 PM (Gk3SS)

394 To challenge the Reactionaries here and burst the bubble of the echo chamber.

Well, then carry on, son. Just remember - windmills can be formidable opponents.

Posted by: Don Quixote at February 17, 2013 07:56 PM (vbh31)

395 Conservative give the media ammo that they use against them.


Posted by: Infinite Wisdom at February 17, 2013 07:51 PM

Again, I'd like to hear what you think about Republicans running on support for Israel

Posted by: kbdabear at February 17, 2013 07:56 PM (mCvL4)

396 387 JeremiadBullfrog
That's not my impression. When I read this blog I see pure hate spewed and this self righteous virtue of defeat.

Posted by: Infinite Wisdom at February 17, 2013 07:56 PM (puDKn)

397 A few other angles of attack I would suggest:

1) Call deficit spending tax increases on the children.
2) Always, always, always talk about laughable government programs when you talk about cutting the budget. Make the left defend the lizard sex studies, not PBS.
3) Point to the leftwing leadership as rich aristocrats. Why does Obama win the "cares about/most like me" vote? Because the LIVs don't know he has been President Party animal. Note how much trouble the left had with Gore once the right targeted him this way.
4) Campaign on "sensible abortion restrictions" and talk about the like of Gosnell a lot. Ignore questions about rape.
5) Oppose Obamacare as "government in your healthcare decisions"
6) Go after the media complex - taking on the RIAA will win more LIV young voters then any other single thing the right could do.

Posted by: 18-1 at February 17, 2013 07:56 PM (zPVBH)

398 the only way to win is to directly confront those forums where low information voters congregate

That means doing Reddit IAMAs, Buzzfeed interviews, going on Jon Stewart, Piers Morgan, The View. It's repulsive, but that's the world we live in.

But when you have that captive audience, you have to make the most of it and be politely confrontational, Breitbart style. Go after the premise of reporters, question their biases. Ben Shapiro did this with Piers Morgan.

Posted by: Jose/ningrim at February 17, 2013 07:56 PM (srIqv)

399 Quite frankly, I'm sick of the openly dishonest idea that the media fairly reports. If the media fairly reported on Republicans and Democrats, Republicans would win election by landslides.

Are Republicans perfect? No. But blaming them for losing when the playing field isn't level leaves out rather important factors.

Posted by: JohnJ at February 17, 2013 07:57 PM (Tt6ky)

400 Hard choices GOP...

Economic conservatism is a stinky fail.

Social conservatism is slightly more popular but still a loser

Neocons total fail.

Soft leftism (light Democratic Party platform) is choice A.

White nationalism is choice B.

Losing elections is choice C.

Lettme guess... anything but choice B, right????

Posted by: Low Info Voter at February 17, 2013 07:58 PM (hZeRK)

401 395 kbdabear
Israel has nothing to do with this. Republicans claim to support Israel, but in reality they do not. How can Conservative claim to support Israel, but then support the Muslim Brotherhood or Al Qaeda rebels in Syria?

Posted by: Infinite Wisdom at February 17, 2013 07:58 PM (puDKn)

402 The first version is out there and there's nothing that can be done to change all the snark about it. The actual real fact that he said exactly the opposite of the reporting is completely irrelevant.

Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Take us away. at February 17, 2013
---

This!! We cannot win against a lying media. Almost everyone I know who is conservative/libertarian either has their own story, or knows someone who has one, about getting taken out of context by the media and having their words twisted to say the exact opposite in service of the media's liberal narrative. I don't think we can win against that. I think we still need to stand up for truth and not hide away. But I'm not very optimistic.

Posted by: JeremiadBullfrog at February 17, 2013 07:59 PM (Y5I9o)

403 All lies are eventually exposed. That doesn't mean there won't be tremendous amounts of misery before the exposition.

Posted by: ghostofhallelujah at February 17, 2013 07:59 PM (XvrTA)

404 Does Santorum ruing a bell?

Ignoring your incompetence with the English language, here is the double-standard writ large.

A Republican no longer in office who lost badly in the primaries (and only stayed on due to his own stubbornness) is the spokesman for the whole party, but somehow we can't tie the Democrats to a SITTING SENATOR WHO WAS DEFENDED BY HIS SENATE PARTY LEADER FOR FUCKING UNDERAGE PROSTITUTES.

Posted by: AmishDude at February 17, 2013 07:59 PM (xSegX)

405 398 Jose/ningrim
Yup, instead of complaining about free stuff, get out there and spread the message. I salute you for not living in the bubble of the echo chamber.

Posted by: Infinite Wisdom at February 17, 2013 07:59 PM (puDKn)

406 make shit up

Posted by: willow-ette at February 17, 2013 07:59 PM (nqBYe)

407 396 387 JeremiadBullfrog
That's not my impression. When I read this blog I see pure hate spewed and this self righteous virtue of defeat.
Posted by: Infinite Wisdom at February 17, 2013 07:56 PM (puDKn)
----

There's certainly an element of that here. But it's far from a majority. Lambasting the whole blog for the opinions of some regular commenters really is a dick move, no?

Posted by: JeremiadBullfrog at February 17, 2013 08:00 PM (Y5I9o)

408 "She's soooo talented and great and nice, she deserves her money and
you're just hating on her! Besides, why do you care how much money she
makes, it's none of your business, you're just jealous and a hater"
***
Well that doesn't really come up now does it?

Damon and Perry (is she a big liberal?) can say whatever they want because they know their friends in the Democrat party will protect them and the Republicans don't want to raise any taxes - there is no way they lose as long as they key the Democrats happy...

Fark that. I want the Republicans targeting tax increases to liberal groups.

Posted by: 18-1 at February 17, 2013 08:00 PM (zPVBH)

409
WHY ... ARE ... YOU ... HERE ?



Posted by: kbdabear at February 17, 2013 07:47 PM

375
372 kbdabear
To challenge the Reactionaries here and burst the bubble of the echo chamber.


Posted by: Infinite Wisdom at February 17, 2013 07:49 PM

Thank you for coming in today. We're going to be interviewing other candidates and we'll be making our decision by the end of this week



Posted by: AoSHQ Human Resources at February 17, 2013 08:00 PM (mCvL4)

410 404 AmishDude
No one disputes the double standard. Republicans like Santorum give the media rope they use to hang the whole party with.

Posted by: Infinite Wisdom at February 17, 2013 08:01 PM (puDKn)

411 When I talk to a liberal, I quote Christopher Walken from "Things to Do in Denver When You're Dead". And it goes -

"You in to that yet? Bitin' the pillow? You will. It's a liberal thing. One day you're saving the rain forest, the next, you're chuggin' cock. Am I wrong?"

Posted by: Reality Man at February 17, 2013 08:02 PM (L2x1w)

412 Go after the premise of reporters, question their biases
***
Yep. Imagine if Romney had taken on Candy Crowley...

Posted by: 18-1 at February 17, 2013 08:02 PM (zPVBH)

413 It's not just young people or the uneducated who are low-information voters. I know a guy who's my age and has a college degree. We can talk about music and baseball, but if I bring up anything even remotely political, he yawns. Literally. It's like a conditioned reflex or something.

Yes, he's a lifelong Democrat and I definitely consider him to be an LIV.

Posted by: rickl at February 17, 2013 08:02 PM (sdi6R)

414 407 JeremiadBullfrog
You are right and my apologies. Its time though that the more Center-Right types on this blog stand up to the reactionaries and bigots. This has to happen at a national level as well. It is time to crush the reactionaries.

Posted by: Infinite Wisdom at February 17, 2013 08:03 PM (puDKn)

415 Thank you for coming in today. We're going to be interviewing other
candidates and we'll be making our decision by the end of this week
___
You know, I can felate my girlfriend all night long.

Just wanted to point that out in case you missed that part of my resume.

Posted by: Palin Steele at February 17, 2013 08:03 PM (zPVBH)

416 99 Quite frankly, I'm sick of the openly dishonest idea that the media fairly reports. If the media fairly reported on Republicans and Democrats, Republicans would win election by landslides.

Are Republicans perfect? No. But blaming them for losing when the playing field isn't level leaves out rather important factors.
Posted by: JohnJ at February 17, 2013 07:57 PM (Tt6ky)
----

Agreed. But I think IW is right in pointing out what many average people do think because of that media coverage.

Posted by: JeremiadBullfrog at February 17, 2013 08:03 PM (Y5I9o)

417 Republicans like Santorum give the media rope they use to hang the whole party with.

Fuck you. You'll find someone. You'll always find someone. Apparently Glenn Beck MOCKING #TeamDorner counts as support. Apparently Alex Jones is now a fucking GOP insider.

Fuck you, puDKn. Why the hell do you think Guam will tip over, huh?

Posted by: AmishDude at February 17, 2013 08:04 PM (xSegX)

418 I do agree with Infinite Wisdom on one point:

We gotta stop this Beta Male defeatist bullshit.

Push for your ideas. Push for your candidates. Sit out the election if you want.

But stop with the endless negativity on the GOP. They will only be as good as political reality allows them. Push to make the wrong people do the right things.

Posted by: HoboJerky, now with 75% more Assault & at February 17, 2013 08:04 PM (FsUAO)

419 "I don't like the conclusion this points to -- essentially government by Idiocracy."

Unfortunately, that is exactly the correct conclusion. Everything we ever hoped for is now hopeless. It is the saddest thing possible.

Posted by: Randall Hoven at February 17, 2013 08:04 PM (vt07s)

420 The problem with blaming Republicans for giving the media ammo is that people are not perfect. You're basically demanding that Republicans be perfect. So you're setting an impossible standard and doing nothing but b!tching when no Republican meets your standard.

What you're really doing is cheering and supporting the Democrats.

Posted by: JohnJ at February 17, 2013 08:04 PM (Tt6ky)

421 Damon and Perry (is she a big liberal?)


Posted by: 18-1 at February 17, 2013 08:00 PM

Every picture tells a story

http://tinyurl.com/az2cy8q

http://tinyurl.com/b3tcoeu

Posted by: AoSHQ Human Resources at February 17, 2013 08:04 PM (mCvL4)

422 More and more these posts give an impression that ace is starting to think that the battle is lost.

Posted by: MJH at February 17, 2013 08:04 PM (fb9Yl)

423 Agreed. But I think IW is right

Why do you bother with the blog when you can just IM him on the Axelrod private line?

Posted by: AmishDude at February 17, 2013 08:05 PM (xSegX)

424 Krugman and Klein don't frame their arguments that well. Krugman is simply so arrogant and sure of what he "knows" that if challenged he foams at the mouth, holds his trophy up and screams "Nobel, bitches !!!!"

Krugman and Klein have the self assurance of a friendly crowd standing behind them, kind of like the little shit in the bar who comes in with a bunch of thugs and always gets his shot of courage to run his mouth


Posted by: kbdabear at February 17, 2013 06:33 PM (mCvL4)

Krugman argues the lib/prog position with the intellectual authority of a Nobel laureate in a public forum with enormous reach and influence. He's damn good at it, and gives progressives an easy argument from authority. He may even be right, I don't know. But even if he's wrong, the subject matter is so complicated and subjective that it isn't a trivial matter to unwrap his assumptions and blinders and point them out. I mean, who are you going to believe, some moron on the internet or a Nobel prize winner?

We don't have anything comparable, even when Uncle Milty was with us. I think he's absolutely devastating to our side.

Posted by: JohnW at February 17, 2013 08:05 PM (0vtx1)

425 Its time though that the more Center-Right types on this blog stand up
to the reactionaries and bigots. This has to happen at a national level
as well. It is time to crush the reactionaries.


You have just proven that you are nothing more than a fucking concern troll. Die in a fire fuckhead.

Posted by: Samuel Adams at February 17, 2013 08:05 PM (ZOf1l)

426 This has to happen at a national level as well. It is time to crush the reactionaries.

Well stated, Hector. I have a secretarial opening in the gulag, if you are interested.

Posted by: Uncle Joe Stalin at February 17, 2013 08:05 PM (vbh31)

427 Are Republicans perfect? No. But blaming them for losing when the playing field isn't level leaves out rather important factors.
***
I think the problem isn't so much that they really try and fail due to the unfairness of the situation, it is that Republican candidate keep failing in almost the same exact way.

That Romney had to deal with the State Media crap and failed to surmount it is understandable. That he pretty much tried to campaign the same way McCain did after knowing how the campaign unfolded is not.


Posted by: 18-1 at February 17, 2013 08:06 PM (zPVBH)

428
Ha sa hipster ever changed a tire?

Posted by: tony redenzo at February 17, 2013 08:06 PM (0KgIG)

429
Why do you bother with the blog when you can just IM him on the Axelrod private line?

Posted by: AmishDude at February 17, 2013 08:05 PM (xSegX)


and can i say amen

Posted by: willow-ette at February 17, 2013 08:06 PM (nqBYe)

430 well... given that bernadette is a ph.d. in biochemistry I don't thinks he defines herself as smart based on NPR-listening. She just meant "get your intellectual stimulation elsewhere, then."

Point taken. I guess, though, that I was trying to say that the writers of Big Bang Theory made a statement with having Bernadette state that line. They'd never have her say "Couldn't you just fool around and then listen to Rush Limbaugh?" (or "...and watch Fox News Channel?" or "...and read National Review"? etc)

And she thinks she's smarter than Howard because she's a doctor and he's not, and she makes a great deal more money than he does.

(Everyone knocks poor Howard for not being a doctor... even penny.)


Posted by: ace at February 17, 2013 07:44 PM

Heh, yeah, but the irony is that Amy Farah Fowler has put down Bernadette in similar fashion (though not to her face as everyone does to Howard).

Sheldon Cooper: I must say, Amy, I was very impressed to see that Bernadette got her Ph.D.
Amy Farrah Fowler: It's indeed admirable. Although it is microbiology.
Sheldon Cooper: Your doctorate is in neurobiology. I fail to see the distinction.
Amy Farrah Fowler: I'll make it simple for you. I study the brain, the organ responsible for Beethoven's "Fifth Symphony." Bernadette studies yeast, the organism responsible for Michelob Light.

Posted by: Clyde Shelton at February 17, 2013 08:07 PM (vUK/h)

431 I mean, who are you going to believe, some moron on the internet or a Nobel prize winner?

Paul Krugman is the Rigoberta Menchu of the Economics Prize.

Posted by: AmishDude at February 17, 2013 08:07 PM (xSegX)

432 414 407 JeremiadBullfrog
You are right and my apologies. Its time though that the more Center-Right types on this blog stand up to the reactionaries and bigots. This has to happen at a national level as well. It is time to crush the reactionaries.
Posted by: Infinite Wisdom at February 17, 2013 08:03 PM (puDKn)
-----

Whoa there...I'm NOT center-right. And I don't think that the people who comment at this blog are "reactionaries and bigots". Not at all. I think there's a lot of pent up frustration taken out here, but I've seen enough of the regulars here for a long enough time not to want to push them off the cliff because we have our slight disagreements.

Posted by: JeremiadBullfrog at February 17, 2013 08:07 PM (Y5I9o)

433 Infinite Wisdom, do you think Obama is a lot like Captain America?

Posted by: buzzion at February 17, 2013 08:08 PM (GULKT)

434 Hector, on second thought I think you may be better suited fro the gulag brothel. Bottoms up, son!

Posted by: Uncle Joe Stalin at February 17, 2013 08:10 PM (vbh31)

435 Apparently Alex Jones is now a fucking GOP insider.

***
This pisses me off. In 2004 or so the left couldn't get enough of Alex Jones. Now they pretend he is a run of the mill conservative.

And this happens again and again.

Look at David Duke - he ran as a Republican once and suddenly he was the voice of conservativism. But during the Gulf War when the Arab News hired him to rail against the "Jewish Conspiracy" behind the WoT and suddenly he was someone unimportant...

Posted by: 18-1 at February 17, 2013 08:10 PM (zPVBH)

436 I'll make it simple for you. I study the brain, the organ responsible for Beethoven's "Fifth Symphony."

It doesn't matter what you study, it matters what you know.

Hell, you can argue that psychologists are the smartest because they study the most complex thing. In fact, the more complex the subject, the less you can possibly know about it.

Except for mathematicians, physicists are the smartest in academia and they study particles.

Quick guide to ranking academic disciplines:
(1) -ics
(2) -engineering
(3) -ology
(4) -science
(5) -studies
(6) -education

Posted by: AmishDude at February 17, 2013 08:10 PM (xSegX)

437 nah, he's more like hector.

Posted by: willow-ette at February 17, 2013 08:10 PM (nqBYe)

438 Do you like Cossack gladiators, Hector?

Posted by: Uncle Joe Stalin at February 17, 2013 08:11 PM (vbh31)

439 433 buzzion
Obama is a Communist.

Posted by: Infinite Wisdom at February 17, 2013 08:11 PM (puDKn)

440 embrace the schmuck!

Posted by: willow-ette at February 17, 2013 08:11 PM (nqBYe)

441 Obama is a Communist.
Posted by: Infinite Wisdom at February 17, 2013 08:11 PM (puDKn)


No he isn't.

Communists genuinely believe their philosophy will make life better.

Posted by: AmishDude at February 17, 2013 08:12 PM (xSegX)

442 (1) -ics
(2) -engineering
(3) -ology
(4) -science
(5) -studies
(6) -education
Posted by: AmishDude at February 17, 2013 08:10 PM (xSegX)

how are you ranking these? IQ required? Required amount of study?

Complete rankings like this throw my BS meter pretty high

Posted by: HoboJerky, now with 75% more Assault & at February 17, 2013 08:13 PM (FsUAO)

443 441 AmishDude
How about a Fascist, would you say that is an apt description?

Posted by: Infinite Wisdom at February 17, 2013 08:13 PM (puDKn)

444 cannot believe cali destroyed girl scouts thin mint cookies instead of giving them to those that can't afford them!

what righteous fkrs they are.

Posted by: willow-ette at February 17, 2013 08:13 PM (nqBYe)

445 Infinite Wisdom: "No one disputes the double standard. Republicans like Santorum give the media rope they use to hang the whole party with."

First, there's an entire media complex that disputes that double standard which is why it persists like ticks on a dog. Second, what's with all the hate WRT Santorum?

But the biggest point is the idea that it is Santorum, for example, who gives the media the rope to hang a party. Guess what? If Santorum didn't donate rope, Cain would. If not him, Palin. Or Romney. Or West. Or Paul. Ad infinitum. And if none of them do, the MFM will twist its own and call it Brand GOP.

ANYONE can be used to represent an entire party if a political center consolidates to make it so. ANY ISSUE can do the same when done by the same. So why is it that just Santorum is our representative sample to all that is wrong with the GOP? I figure it's your own personal animus projecting the problem to be worse than it really is, but I guess that's open to interpretation. But let's say he is the source of "our" problem. Why not focus on the freedom-crushing actions of our SCoaMF who actually holds power and further antagonizing those who maintain the relentless double-standard we so evidently appreciate?

Posted by: AnonymousDrivel at February 17, 2013 08:14 PM (eHIJJ)

446 Well then why don't you go rail against the echo chamber at Daily Kos you fucking pussy? We argue enough here that anyone that claims to read the comments like you would know that this place is not an echo chamber you cowardly little shit.

Posted by: buzzion at February 17, 2013 08:14 PM (GULKT)

447 how are you ranking these? IQ required?

Yep. There are exceptions: Economics is a "-science" and computer science is an "-ics".

Required amount of study?

Nah. Anybody can take a simple subject and just make you go through a billion hoops to get a degree.

Posted by: AmishDude at February 17, 2013 08:15 PM (xSegX)

448 Quick guide to ranking academic disciplines: (1) -ics (2) -engineering (3) -ology (4) -science (5) -studies (6) -education
Posted by: AmishDude at February 17, 2013 08:10 PM (xSegX)

*******

So a psychotic outranks a psychologist?

Posted by: Seamus Muldoon at February 17, 2013 08:15 PM (qqZuQ)

449 buzzion it's fool of bologna, it said we supported MB and arming al Qaeda in syria.

Posted by: willow-ette at February 17, 2013 08:16 PM (nqBYe)

450 446 buzzion
I do argue on Leftist blogs.

Posted by: Infinite Wisdom at February 17, 2013 08:16 PM (puDKn)

451 I've been on the HQ for many years, and I can tell you I've never experienced a more inclusive conservative blog.

Only a few here start to insinuate I'm a drug addict because I'm against the drug war, or that I'm a Luap Nor fan because I'm not a fan of the Drone War / ME adventurism.

Posted by: HoboJerky, now with 75% more Assault & at February 17, 2013 08:16 PM (FsUAO)

452 or full

Posted by: willow-ette at February 17, 2013 08:16 PM (nqBYe)

453 LOLThinking. :-P

Posted by: Mirror-Universe Mitt Romney at February 17, 2013 08:17 PM (O8sZf)

454 447 how are you ranking these? IQ required?

Yep. There are exceptions: Economics is a "-science" and computer science is an "-ics".

Required amount of study?

Nah. Anybody can take a simple subject and just make you go through a billion hoops to get a degree.
Posted by: AmishDude at February 17, 2013 08:15 PM (xSegX)

Ah well, then as a CS PhD I'll accept your ranking!

JK CS is a gigantic field. I'm guessing it will split again in a few years. I'm in machine learning for now.

Posted by: HoboJerky, now with 75% more Assault & at February 17, 2013 08:17 PM (FsUAO)

455 How about a Fascist, would you say that is an apt description?
Posted by: Infinite Wisdom at February 17, 2013 08:13 PM (puDKn)


Obama's supporters are fascists.

Being a fascist is much too work and accountability for a mental deficient like Obama.

He's just Nero. That's it. Nero.

Posted by: AmishDude at February 17, 2013 08:18 PM (xSegX)

456 Hobo i disagree with both and ...

shrug.


Posted by: willow-ette at February 17, 2013 08:18 PM (nqBYe)

457 445 AnonymousDrivel
I focus on Santorum because he is what is wrong with Conservatives. He is not even a Conservative and yet has become some hero to them.. Dorky Ricky is really a Socialist like Obama. It's just he hates Gays and Contraceptives, that enables him to fool Conservatives.

Posted by: Infinite Wisdom at February 17, 2013 08:18 PM (puDKn)

458 A libertarian ( Michael Z Williamson ) learns something:

http://tinyurl.com/a2f4qyy

Posted by: Kristophr at February 17, 2013 08:18 PM (wYVte)

459 456 Hobo i disagree with both and ...

shrug.


Posted by: willow-ette at February 17, 2013 08:18 PM (nqBYe)
I'm being totally serious that they are the most tolerant of blogs. On other sites you get run out for 1 or 2 "unorthodox" ideas.

Posted by: HoboJerky, now with 75% more Assault & at February 17, 2013 08:19 PM (FsUAO)

460 455 AmishDude
He's just a self center narcissist in your book then? I agree with that.

Posted by: Infinite Wisdom at February 17, 2013 08:19 PM (puDKn)

461 But the biggest point is the idea that it is Santorum, for example, who gives the media the rope to hang a party. Guess what? If Santorum didn't donate rope, Cain would. If not him, Palin. Or Romney. Or West. Or Paul. Ad infinitum. And if none of them do, the MFM will twist its own and call it Brand GOP.
Posted by: AnonymousDrivel at February 17, 2013 08:14 PM (eHIJJ)
---

I think you're dead on target. But the point against Santorum is that there's already a whole complex set up against him. So we'd have to work double from the get-go.

Posted by: JeremiadBullfrog at February 17, 2013 08:19 PM (Y5I9o)

462 JK CS is a gigantic field. I'm guessing it will split again in a few years. I'm in machine learning for now.

Actually, it's shrinking, at least our CS department is.

Posted by: AmishDude at February 17, 2013 08:20 PM (xSegX)

463 willow-ette:

I'm still trying to picture you in a tie-dyed skirt and Birkenstocks. I saw your comment from yesterday, but I can't remember what thread it was in.

Anyway, we conservative Birkenstock-wearers need to stick together.

Posted by: rickl at February 17, 2013 08:20 PM (sdi6R)

464 This is the whole brilliance behind Barry actually. The campaign successfully got people to invest their personal self worth in Barry personally. That's why he is never blamed for anything. To blame Barry, is to blame self.

Posted by: Timwi at February 17, 2013 08:20 PM (pdhxN)

465 The righties are too busy buying commercials at 4
AM for Mitt Romney or paying for the Daily Caller. Sorry, but these
guys are going to continue winning because they understand the media.
Just that simple.

Posted by: Leigh Scott at February 17, 2013 06:14 PM

I had that feeling all through the campaign that when it came to the media and campaigning, Romney was running an 80s K-Car against a BMW 7 series. Many of us were dismissive of the concerns of morons in swing states who were seeing Obama ads constantly but no Romney ads. "Oh, he'll get to it" we'd say.

They not only got the media, they got social networking, the internet, and data collection right while Romney was throwing money at guys who were like an 85 year old Amish guy trying to get a wi-fi connection

Posted by: kbdabear at February 17, 2013 08:21 PM (mCvL4)

466 [Santorum] is not even a Conservative and yet has become some hero to them.

Liar.

BTW, I love "them". Thanks for that.

Posted by: AmishDude at February 17, 2013 08:21 PM (xSegX)

467 465 kbdabear
You just nailed the technological gap that exists.

Posted by: Infinite Wisdom at February 17, 2013 08:22 PM (puDKn)

468 Hobo. uh hmm.

individual freedom, fiscal sanity, and protection of the country from enemies, smaller govt because back to individual freedom (which won't ever happen now)

the rest is argue amongst ourselves

Posted by: willow-ette at February 17, 2013 08:22 PM (nqBYe)

469 457:It's just he hates Gays and Contraceptives, that enables him to fool Conservatives.
Posted by: Infinite Wisdom at February 17, 2013 08:18 PM (puDKn)
--

Geez, IW, way to talk like a Leftist. You've lost me with your accusations of hate. It's people like you that keep me away from the self-righteous self-proclaimed "center". I guess when you come to power, you'll just have no choice but to eliminate "reactionaries and bigots" like me who have the temerity to disagree with you.

Posted by: JeremiadBullfrog at February 17, 2013 08:22 PM (Y5I9o)

470 those are my main ticks.

Posted by: willow-ette at February 17, 2013 08:22 PM (nqBYe)

471 If it attacks Republicans like a leftist and talks like a leftist... it's a leftist.

Posted by: JohnJ at February 17, 2013 08:23 PM (Tt6ky)

472
Quick guide to ranking academic disciplines: (1) -ics (2) -engineering (3) -ology (4) -science (5) -studies (6) -education
Posted by: AmishDude at February 17, 2013 08:10 PM (xSegX)



Hey, where's chemistry?

Also, "obedience classes" should be in between (5) and (6).

Posted by: Jay Guevara at February 17, 2013 08:24 PM (IDSI7)

473 I don't know if Leigh Scott is still lurking about, but if he is I would like to say I have watched all his movies that are available on netflix and had a thorough good time. "Beast of Bray Road" and the Frankenstein flic (the name escapes me right now) are both good old fashion low budget drive in movies. Reminds me somewhat of Bob Clarke's "Children Shouldn't Play With Dead Things" (the greatest PG zombie movie ever made).

Keep up the good work.

Posted by: the guy that moves pianos for a living... at February 17, 2013 08:24 PM (KAWvv)

474 because it's catering again to groups.

you are group A
they are group B or C

when someone talks like we are not a nation comprising of all, but specialty group with special rights screw that/.

Posted by: willow-ette at February 17, 2013 08:24 PM (nqBYe)

475 I really like how the latter part of this thread has developed. Instead of ranting about how Americans want free stuff or the purity of defeat, I see constructive comments on how to win.

Posted by: Infinite Wisdom at February 17, 2013 08:25 PM (puDKn)

476 This is the whole brilliance behind Barry actually. The campaign successfully got people to invest their personal self worth in Barry personally. That's why he is never blamed for anything. To blame Barry, is to blame self.

Very true, although that waned in 2012. There was, however, a lot of attempt to justify the 2008 vote. People had placed a lot of self-worth in their Obama vote and could not accept that they were wrong.

And don't say Obama was brilliant, because no Republican could have even begun to do what Obama did. He had the media on his side and used it to the max.

Posted by: AmishDude at February 17, 2013 08:26 PM (xSegX)

477 Hey, where's chemistry?

I see it as an -engineering. Not math-y or precise enough to be an -ics, but not so terrible as to be an -ology.

Posted by: AmishDude at February 17, 2013 08:27 PM (xSegX)

478
There are exceptions: Economics is a "-science"
Posted by: HoboJerky, now with 75% more Assault at February 17, 2013 08:17 PM (FsUAO)


I beg to differ. Economics is a "study." Any subject whose tenets cannot be falsified is not a science. The fact that Keynes and Friedman were both Nobel Laureates, despite having mutually exclusive views, proves economics is not a science. In a science, one would be proven wrong (or at least, incomplete), and the other not proven wrong or incomplete - yet.

Posted by: Jay Guevara at February 17, 2013 08:27 PM (IDSI7)

479 469 JeremiadBullfrog
I am talking about a subset of Conservatives who view Santorum as a hero because of his rhetoric. Most Conservatives know Santorum is a Lefty.

Posted by: Infinite Wisdom at February 17, 2013 08:27 PM (puDKn)

480 first, whatever his appeal in certain circles, Santorum lost so why this focus

second it seems to you everyone who supports any form of government intervention/assistance is a socialist. make Ron Paul or Gary Johnson the presidential candidate along these lines, and he loses more massive than any "gay-hating" Republican, i guarantee it. people are not into minarchy.

but keep trolling and telling yourself you've got all the answers. smash teh state

Posted by: JDP at February 17, 2013 08:28 PM (8HhF2)

481 bl

Posted by: willow-ette at February 17, 2013 08:28 PM (nqBYe)

482 I beg to differ. Economics is a "study."

The Krugmanesque social "science" version can be put there, but econometrics and finance (Browninan motion models) are pretty serious stuff.

Posted by: AmishDude at February 17, 2013 08:30 PM (xSegX)

483 When I read this blog I see pure hate spewed and this self righteous virtue of defeat.
Posted by: Infinite Wisdom at February 17, 2013 07:56 PM (puDKn)

Shut up, motherfucker.

Posted by: Harrison Bergeron at February 17, 2013 08:31 PM (JQuNB)

484 I will throw in a little bit of a ray of light here. Light but not optimism;

As more and more analysis comes out about the two campaigns, it becomes painfully obvious that the Obama campaign had massive advantages in just about every way

Yet TFG only won by 3 points

With all the advantages, Obama should have won by a good 55 to 45 or even 60 to 40 victory

The Obama people were very sharp at campaigning, I'll give them that

It's actual problem solving that he sucks at

Posted by: kbdabear at February 17, 2013 08:32 PM (mCvL4)

485 Anybody watching this NBA all star thing will see that our destruction as a culture and civilization is assured.

Posted by: Fritz at February 17, 2013 08:33 PM (WM+rJ)

486 I don't think most LIVs realize
a. What three purpose of government is, especially the government.
B. How much money we waste on things that should not be done by government in the first place.

If you hammer these things home enough you'll get the message across. LIVs and even liberals look out for themselves first. Nobody likes to be ripped off.

Republicans are to busy worried about being called insensitive or uncaring or racist to tell people the truth.

Posted by: damueller99 at February 17, 2013 08:33 PM (34jHr)

487 Krugman wants to borrow billions/trillions of dollars monopoly money to establish a defense system against invading aliens.

Now what do you think of a Nobel Laureate and his science?

Better and smarter prizes can be found in the bottom of a Cracker Jacks box.

Posted by: AnonymousDrivel at February 17, 2013 08:36 PM (eHIJJ)

488
I see it as an -engineering. Not math-y or precise enough to be an -ics, but not so terrible as to be an -ology.Posted by: AmishDude at February 17, 2013 08:27 PM (xSegX)

I have to disagree. Parts of chemistry are highly mathematical (physical and inorganic chemistry, where it shades into physics), and the parts that aren't (e.g., organic chemistry) require strong spatial skills. Disconnecting a structure to get back to a known starting material is challenging, as is deducing the structure of a compound from spectral data. Not mathematical, but requiring highly developed spatial skills.

Furthermore, most physicists are experimentalists, not theoreticians, and thus not that much different from chemists.

Last, it is not uncommon for highly adept mathematicians to be utterly hopeless in either physics or chemistry, because they lack the requisite physical intuition/insight, and thus come up with beautiful mathematics that is completely useless for physical problems.

Posted by: Jay Guevara at February 17, 2013 08:36 PM (IDSI7)

489 Krugman looks like a champ when he's lecturing to a like minded crowd, he's insufferably smug

Put him in a debate with a Friedman or Hayek intellect and he starts ranting like a demented hobo

I don't know where to find it, but he was in Spain last year debating a European economist who beat him like he caught him in bed with his daughter

Posted by: kbdabear at February 17, 2013 08:36 PM (mCvL4)

490 The fact that an untalented, average dope like Obama won an election over a competent individual like Romney only demonstrates how incredibly powerful the media is.

Posted by: JohnJ at February 17, 2013 08:39 PM (Tt6ky)

491 there's already a whole complex set up against him. So we'd have to work double from the get-go.
Posted by: JeremiadBullfrog at February 17, 2013 08:19 PM (Y5I9o)

...and we see them already working on Rubio (water!), Rand Paul (weirdo!), Ben Carson (anti-science!), Jindal (Mr. Rogers!), etc...

Meanwhile they will elevate some squishy moderate, give the impression that the press will be friendly to this person, and then destroy after the moderate gets nominated.

Posted by: Mindy at February 17, 2013 08:40 PM (gBOQE)

492
The Krugmanesque social "science" version can be put there, but econometrics and finance (Browninan motion models) are pretty serious stuff.Posted by: AmishDude at February 17, 2013 08:30 PM (xSegX)

Maybe, but speaking from a position of unalloyed ignorance, I doubt it. If they were serious stuff, i.e., a science, the game would be over; anyone who had mastered them would accumulate all of the money. It would be the equivalent of tic-tac-toe. No one bets on the kinematics of billiard balls.

Don't conflate erudition or complexity with merit. Astrology is pretty complicated too, as is Marxism.

Posted by: Jay Guevara at February 17, 2013 08:41 PM (IDSI7)

493 Krugman snarked about stories of his son supporting Hillary in 2007. He said he's got neither a son nor a daughter but his two cats haven't decided.

That's a lie right there. Krugman talks like a guy with at least 15 cats

Posted by: kbdabear at February 17, 2013 08:41 PM (mCvL4)

494 Last, it is not uncommon for highly adept mathematicians to be utterly hopeless in either physics or chemistry, because they lack the requisite physical intuition/insight, and thus come up with beautiful mathematics that is completely useless for physical problems.

Not true, mathematicians write mathematics for mathematicians. We're not really interested in the "real world". We just assume you people have that covered.

I mean, do we have to do your work, too?

Posted by: AmishDude at February 17, 2013 08:43 PM (xSegX)

495 I am way late to the party (working, sorry), but this is the most important post of the year so far. If we can't beat this, it's over. Let It Burn will not defeat this. Nothing will.

Posted by: Aaron at February 17, 2013 08:44 PM (Tlix5)

496 490
The fact that an untalented, average dope like Obama won an election
over a competent individual like Romney only demonstrates how incredibly
powerful the media is.


Posted by: JohnJ at February 17, 2013 08:39 PM

Romney may have been a wiz at business, but his campaign in retrospect was pure amateur hour

Look back at ace's threads last year and see how many times he and the cobloggers asked "what the fuck is Romney doing?"

We were so sure that the bad economy and foreign policy fuckups (which the MSM spun to protect him) were enough to sink Obama. We fooled ourselves badly even though all the troubling signs were there.


Posted by: kbdabear at February 17, 2013 08:46 PM (mCvL4)

497 Please get this clear: there is no battle of ideas. There is only a battle. Can't you see that? The left is winning because they have total control of the media and together they are waging full out, alinky style war on the right in an effort to destroy the GOP as a political party. And it has nothing to do with ideas, it has to do with propaganda and lies and smears and character assassinations and playing with peoples' emotions. That's all.

Posted by: sb at February 17, 2013 08:49 PM (j0MFs)

498
I mean, do we have to do your work, too?Posted by: AmishDude at February 17, 2013 08:43 PM (xSegX)

Why not? We're doing yours! /g

Posted by: Jay Guevara at February 17, 2013 08:50 PM (IDSI7)

499 Destroy the media. Any way we can. Blackmail, smear campaigns, cyberattacks, physical attacks, jamming, sabotage -- whatever will silence them. The Democrats are just the political wing of the media. Obama isn't the President, Jon Stewart is. Take him down, hard.

Posted by: Trimegistus at February 17, 2013 08:50 PM (0VSTU)

500 490
The fact that an untalented, average dope like Obama won an election
over a competent individual like Romney only demonstrates how incredibly
powerful the media is.


Posted by: JohnJ at February 17, 2013 08:39 PM

The MSM is always going to be worth between 5 to 10 points for the Democrat, that's a given. Reagan's campaign knew how to overcome that large disadvantage not only against the media but against the GOP establishment.

One thing that Reagan did have in his favor was that the MSM wasn't so blatantly partisan as now, and another is that they personally detested Jimmy Carter. A run by their golden boy Ted Kennedy got the MSM in orgasms, so when Jimmah beat their Prince they held too much bitterness to attack Reagan with all they had

Posted by: kbdabear at February 17, 2013 08:50 PM (mCvL4)

501 I hate that I missed this thread earlier.

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at February 17, 2013 08:52 PM (piMMO)

502
another is that they personally detested Jimmy Carter

I wonder how they really feel about Hillary. They pretty much dropped her like a bad habit when Jugears appeared on the scene.

Posted by: Jay Guevara at February 17, 2013 08:53 PM (IDSI7)

503 really wish I had time to read all the comments.
two thoughts:
liberals think they are too smart to be wrong. I don't know if this is a treatable condition
try posting dissenting opinions on left wing sites and you will very likely be banned

Posted by: mallfly at February 17, 2013 08:54 PM (jDjlM)

504
Destroy the media. Any way we can. Blackmail, smear campaigns, cyberattacks, physical attacks, jamming, sabotage -- whatever will silence them.Posted by: Trimegistus at February 17, 2013 08:50 PM (0VSTU)

This.

Posted by: Jay Guevara at February 17, 2013 08:55 PM (IDSI7)

505 Economics is certainly a science. Krugman won his Nobel Prize in trade theory.

Doesn't mean he knows jack in other fields.

Posted by: HoboJerky, now with 75% more Assault & at February 17, 2013 08:58 PM (FsUAO)

506
liberals think they are too smart to be wrong. I don't know if this is a treatable condition

Dunning and Krueger say it isn't.

On top of which, some truly brilliant men, such as William Thomson (Lord Kelvin), were spectacularly wrong on occasion. Anyone who thinks he can't be wrong in any instance is probably wrong in a whole shitload of instances.

Posted by: Jay Guevara at February 17, 2013 08:58 PM (IDSI7)

507 One big problem in our plan is going after Obama directly while forgetting that he is more reliant on his enablers and protectors than any President in history. It's like we're trying to take the King with every move while his pawns, rooks, and bishops wipe us off the board.

I believe that we have to attack the pawns, the enablers as it were. Twitter is a wonderful tool to swarm on individual members and organizations of the media for one. Look at how Piers Morgan comes unglued on Twitter

To checkmate the King and win the game, we have to eliminate the other pieces first

Posted by: kbdabear at February 17, 2013 08:59 PM (mCvL4)

508 any field of study can be a science if there is a way to test the theories. This no longer counts, as "oh yes global warming can cause really bad blizzards" tend sto show

Posted by: mallfly at February 17, 2013 09:00 PM (jDjlM)

509
Economics is certainly a science

Sorry, no it isn't. Not even close. How can economics Nobel Prizes be awarded for work coming to mutually exclusive conclusions? That would be like Nobel Prizes in a real science being awarded to the progenitor of the phlogiston hypothesis and to Lavoisier. You can't have it both ways.

Posted by: Jay Guevara at February 17, 2013 09:01 PM (IDSI7)

510 "I wonder how they really feel about Hillary. They pretty much dropped her like a bad habit when Jugears appeared on the scene."

I hate to tell you this, but during the #ThankaFeminist thing, there were a bunch of people boosting her. I think the Benghazi hearings are being used to rehabilitate her, as awful as that is.

I'm not sure whether the Dems are keen on her but they would kill to claim first woman prez after Obama's done.

Posted by: Shoot Me at February 17, 2013 09:02 PM (qiXMt)

511 Them: simple, sensationalist, and wrong.

Us: complex and, to many, boring.

We lose. There is no beating that. The Bush Tax Cuts caused the debt is extremely simple to grasp and stupidly wrong, but even the simplest explanation of how wrong it is becomes dull to most people and so they don't learn. And the liberals pushing this shit get to pretend they are brilliant theorists with the accolades of idiots.

We lose, unless we leave and form our own society. Which is something we need to be seriously considering.

Posted by: Aaron at February 17, 2013 09:03 PM (Tlix5)

512 Got to hit them where it hurts.

"Destroy the media"--would actually work if we could starve the beast:

**Disconnect cable/satellite TV
**End our cell phone contracts
**Not go to movies or rent/buy/stream them

The list could go on and on, but you get the idea...TOTAL disconnect. Including the kids' phones, media, etc......

It sounds great in theory, but who's going to actually DO it?


Posted by: JeanQueenie at February 17, 2013 09:04 PM (Gmp2Z)

513 re 509: always lots of disagreements in real science. For better or worse, we didn't have a mainstream media to pick between Newton and Einstein, or between Einstein and Bohr.

Posted by: mallfly at February 17, 2013 09:06 PM (jDjlM)

514
I hate to tell you this, but during the #ThankaFeminist thing, there were a bunch of people boosting her. Posted by: Shoot Me at February 17, 2013 09:02 PM (qiXMt)

I have no doubt that there are bunch of dumb asses who support her, I'm just wondering if the Reds in the MSM are among them.

Look at how fast those bastards went through their video archives to prove that her "running through sniper fire" claim was total bullshit. They jumped up so fast they almost stepped on their dicks. If Jugears hadn't been her rival, they'd have buried that footage deeper than whale shit.

Posted by: Jay Guevara at February 17, 2013 09:06 PM (IDSI7)

515 another is that they personally detested Jimmy Carter

I wonder how they really feel about Hillary. They pretty much dropped her like a bad habit when Jugears appeared on the scene.

Posted by: Jay Guevara at February 17, 2013 08:53 PM

With Hillary it was Bro's before Ho's. The MSM in spite of being lefties who say they champion women are extremely misogynist in private.

Hillary still has big fans in the MSM, in fact many say that they privately loved her and her Vassar elitist personality and thought little of Bill and his working class Southern habits and mannerisms. Lots of stories about Hillary's dainty dinner party etiquette vs their disgust at Bill's crude table manners.

What'll be popcorn worthy is if it's a Hillary vs Rahmbo battle royal. Each fights dirty, each knows where the other's bodies are buried.

Posted by: kbdabear at February 17, 2013 09:07 PM (mCvL4)

516 On the other hand, it's more fun to keep the amenities, and bash the leftards on new media...

Posted by: JeanQueenie at February 17, 2013 09:07 PM (Gmp2Z)

517 God loves his workers

Posted by: God at February 17, 2013 09:07 PM (kckSn)

518 512 JeanQueenie:

I did. I quit supporting leftist artists and musicians years ago. I stopped watching TV news (including Fox) after the 2008 election, and cancelled my cable TV subscription after the 2012 election. I never have had a cell phone.

Posted by: rickl at February 17, 2013 09:09 PM (sdi6R)

519 The list could go on and on, but you get the idea...TOTAL disconnect. Including the kids' phones, media, etc......

It sounds great in theory, but who's going to actually DO it?




Posted by: JeanQueenie at February 17, 2013 09:04 PM

Ace had the right idea I think. Pick one and go full blast on it, and NBC is the cripple in the herd that might be ripe to pick off

Posted by: kbdabear at February 17, 2013 09:09 PM (mCvL4)

520
always lots of disagreements in real science. For better or worse, we didn't have a mainstream media to pick between Newton and Einstein, or between Einstein and Bohr.Posted by: mallfly at February 17, 2013 09:06 PM (jDjlM)

Yeah, but not for the same fucking thing. Einstein received his Nobel Prize for the photoelectric effect, Bohr essentially for quantization.

Posted by: Jay Guevara at February 17, 2013 09:10 PM (IDSI7)

521 rickl--I spend as little as possible on media, hubby insists on cabletv and I insist on fast internet.

The rest? Nope.

Posted by: JeanQueenie at February 17, 2013 09:11 PM (Gmp2Z)

522 One cookie for u

Posted by: God at February 17, 2013 09:11 PM (kckSn)

523 Posted by: kbdabear at February 17, 2013 08:59 PM (mCvL4)
Excellent observation.

Posted by: Donna V. at February 17, 2013 09:11 PM (BStAJ)

524 NBC--not on our regular watch list, anyway.

What else can our household do to help bring them down?

Posted by: JeanQueenie at February 17, 2013 09:13 PM (Gmp2Z)

525 I wonder how they really feel about Hillary. They pretty much dropped her like a bad habit when Jugears appeared on the scene.



Posted by: Jay Guevara at February 17, 2013 08:53 PM

Look no further than how they presented that insolent, petulant, and childish rant "What Difference Does it Make !!!! "

It was the snit of a 14 year old teenager, but the MSM presented it as a "firm, strong, and intelligent defense against Republican detractors"

Yeh, they've got her six

Posted by: kbdabear at February 17, 2013 09:14 PM (mCvL4)

526 "To checkmate the King and win the game, we have to eliminate the other pieces first"


Problem is we have learned they have many more pawns than we do. We need to figure out how to win against that.

Posted by: Low I. Voter at February 17, 2013 09:14 PM (vfB2N)

527 We have slipped across the event horizon. Things don't feel any different yet, but the gravitational pull of the Free Shit Army is now inescapable. At this point, the sooner the collapse happens the better -- because there might just be enough of us civilized people left to rebuild afterward. The longer we're forced to wait, the less of us there'll be afterward.

Let it burn. Then get to work.

Posted by: OhioCoastie at February 17, 2013 09:15 PM (pKCuj)

528 I love money

Posted by: God Toby at February 17, 2013 09:15 PM (kckSn)

529 re 520: in 1974, if I remember correctly, Hayek and Samuelson shared the nobel prize in economics, which made it as meaningful as Barky getting a Nobel prize for being an unproven winner.
Anyway, Nobel prize aside, the point stands that real scientists disagree with each other. People like Krugman act like know it alls who think those who disagree wth them are ignorant or paid off.

Posted by: mallfly at February 17, 2013 09:15 PM (jDjlM)

530 Move to a red or purple state.

Spread propaganda.

Posted by: eman at February 17, 2013 09:16 PM (brZFd)

531 Speaking of letitburn--supper needs my attention.

Darn it. See ya later.

Posted by: JeanQueenie at February 17, 2013 09:16 PM (Gmp2Z)

532
"To checkmate the King and win the game, we have to eliminate the other pieces first"

Yep. It's the strategy that ultimately took down Pablo Escobar. Brutal, but effective.

Posted by: Jay Guevara at February 17, 2013 09:17 PM (IDSI7)

533 523 Posted by: kbdabear at February 17, 2013 08:59 PM (mCvL4)
Excellent observation.


Yeah, but it's a flawed analogy. It's possible to win a chess game without capturing any enemy pieces.

/chess pedant off

Posted by: rickl at February 17, 2013 09:17 PM (sdi6R)

534 This post was babbalage, it makes little sense

Posted by: God Toby at February 17, 2013 09:19 PM (kckSn)

535 As far as attacking the pawns, watch ace when he has one in his crosshairs on twitter. It's a work of art watching him turn the likes of Don Lemon, Toure, Joe Scarborough, and Piers Morgan to raging jello

Posted by: kbdabear at February 17, 2013 09:20 PM (mCvL4)

536 What people would like to hear -- if printed words and sentences
containing dependent clauses (or even parentheticals nested within
interrupting clauses set off by em-dashes) make their brains hurt -- is
that all this "political self-detemination" and "informed consent of the
voter" stuff is all just a bunch of silly hooey for Smarty-Farties Who
Probably Can't Get Laid.

WOW

Posted by: God Toby at February 17, 2013 09:21 PM (kckSn)

537 To illustrate, here is the shortest possible chess game:

1. f3 e5
2. g4 Qh4mate

(Can you tell I miss the chess thread?)

Posted by: rickl at February 17, 2013 09:22 PM (sdi6R)

538 How many semi resolute English teachers have a job, other than telling others how to write?

Posted by: God Toby at February 17, 2013 09:23 PM (kckSn)

539 535
As far as attacking the pawns, watch ace when he has one in his
crosshairs on twitter. It's a work of art watching him turn the likes of
Don Lemon, Toure, Joe Scarborough, and Piers Morgan to raging jello

And nobody but us reads it. If a bear masturbates in the woods and it isn't posted to Facebook, does it matter?

Posted by: Aaron at February 17, 2013 09:26 PM (Tlix5)

540 I love face book.

Posted by: God Toby at February 17, 2013 09:28 PM (kckSn)

541 I thought nowadays the shortest chess game was the Rahm Gambit:
1 Q takes king checkmate

Posted by: mallfly at February 17, 2013 09:28 PM (jDjlM)

542 Here's the big problem in a nutshell;

"If a Conservative voices a brilliant idea, did he make a sound?"

Posted by: kbdabear at February 17, 2013 09:30 PM (mCvL4)

543
Facebook is for teenaged girls.

Posted by: Jay Guevara at February 17, 2013 09:31 PM (IDSI7)

544 rickl, I didn't know that. I play chess from time to time, and quite a few pieces are taken off the board in short order. Usually they are my pieces. (My older brother once played in tournaments and I am still dumb enough to lethim rope me into an occasional game. It always cheers him up.)

Posted by: Donna V. at February 17, 2013 09:31 PM (BStAJ)

545 "Says here you talk like a fag and your shit's all retarded."

-- Thomas Jefferson to Alexander Hamilton, 1792


That's exactly what I said to him before I shot him

Posted by: Aaron Burr at February 17, 2013 09:32 PM (mCvL4)

546 543

Facebook is for teenaged girls.

Posted by: Jay Guevara at February 17, 2013 09:31 PM

Yet they get fed a steady diet of socialism that goes uncountered by the time they're voting age

That's Bill Jacobson of LI's whole point

Posted by: kbdabear at February 17, 2013 09:35 PM (mCvL4)

547 I have a dog, my dog is named lick me. Go search for it. It is a Labrador.


Posted by: God Toby at February 17, 2013 09:38 PM (kckSn)

548 And nobody but us reads it. If a bear masturbates in the woods and it isn't posted to Facebook, does it matter?


Posted by: Aaron at February 17, 2013 09:26 PM

More and more often, Ace gets quoted, referenced, and linked by more outlets. If he weren't so personally shy and occasionally bad tempered, he could be the heir to Breitbart.

Posted by: kbdabear at February 17, 2013 09:38 PM (mCvL4)

549 What has happened in the Information Age is--the speed in which material can be produced and disseminated--and the resulting competition to be first--has created an environment in which the quality and fact checking suffer.

Also the ease of publications means more people can do it and not everyone should be published. THere probably is another phenomena where if you read something enough times you assume it's fact--in this day and age its probably easier to read complete bs over an over again.

Another problem is (and Democrats are worse at this) we've lost the dialectic, the competition of ideas--they squash debate and Republicans ban in retaliation. "Troll" is readily thrown out to kill debate now between people that only vary in opinion by as little as 10%

Then something about the internet has shortened people's attention spans--I don't know how but it seems to have happened.


Posted by: tasker at February 17, 2013 09:40 PM (r2PLg)

550 533
523 Posted by: kbdabear at February 17, 2013 08:59 PM (mCvL4)

Excellent observation.



Yeah, but it's a flawed analogy. It's possible to win a chess game without capturing any enemy pieces.



/chess pedant off

Posted by: rickl at February 17, 2013 09:17 PM

If your opponent is an idiot you can. Although the LIV's are cretins, the elites and operatives aren't. If your game plan isn't working, you have to make adjustments

Posted by: kbdabear at February 17, 2013 09:42 PM (mCvL4)

551 "Troll" is readily thrown out to kill debate now between people that only vary in opinion by as little as 10%

90%???

Posted by: God Toby at February 17, 2013 09:44 PM (kckSn)

552 532

"To checkmate the King and win the game, we have to eliminate the other pieces first"

Yep. It's the strategy that ultimately took down Pablo Escobar. Brutal, but effective.

Posted by: Jay Guevara at February 17, 2013 09:17 PM

That's how the Teflon Don was taken down too. The Feds muscled the layers of crews, soldiers, capos, and then underbosses until they turned on Gotti, leaving him with weak support

Posted by: kbdabear at February 17, 2013 09:45 PM (mCvL4)

553 Pleasure

and

Pain

that is all life understands

Posted by: God Toby at February 17, 2013 09:47 PM (kckSn)

554 kbdabear:

Yeah, I know. Sorry for the off-topic.

Posted by: rickl at February 17, 2013 09:49 PM (sdi6R)

555 551
"Troll" is readily thrown out to kill debate now between people that only vary in opinion by as little as 10%

90%???


Posted by: God Toby at February 17, 2013 09:44 PM

Trolls like IM try to grease us with the "we agree on most things, BUT" with a big leftist talking point. Each post another layer comes off until what started with Joe Scarborough ends up with Toure

If everyone agrees the thread dies, and sometimes someone will make a fake troll to stir things up or try to poke a lurking troll with a stick

Posted by: kbdabear at February 17, 2013 09:51 PM (mCvL4)

556 In order to destroy the media, you have to out compete it.

In ALL arenas.

Everything. We need conservatives making soap operas, news shows, movies, everything.

It doesn't matter what kind of broadcast you use ... the Internet will work just fine these days.

But you have to have ALL the forms of entertainment. And it has to be entertaining ... and the entertainers need to keep ridiculing people who watch the old media as stupid and uncool.

Posted by: Kristophr at February 17, 2013 09:55 PM (wYVte)

557 What people would like to hear -- if printed words and sentences
containing dependent clauses (or even parentheticals nested within
interrupting clauses set off by em-dashes) make their brains hurt -- is
that all this "political self-detemination" and "informed consent of the
voter" stuff is all just a bunch of silly hooey for Smarty-Farties Who
Probably Can't Get Laid.


This and a hundred other things will haunt you. So lets try something new, in this new age, a new way of doing things from here on out.

Posted by: God Toby at February 17, 2013 09:55 PM (kckSn)

558 God Toby : This and a hundred other things will haunt you. So
lets try something new, in this new age, a new way of doing things from
here on out.




We need to make leftism Uncool.

Posted by: Kristophr at February 17, 2013 09:57 PM (wYVte)

559 Oh hell--I wasn't talking about what was going on--at this thread.

It was some other threads.

Actually the guy that hurled out "troll" was talking-to someone pretty Conservative and once the commenter got passed all that--he made some damn good points.

Posted by: tasker at February 17, 2013 09:58 PM (r2PLg)

560 I hardly need to tell you that political persuation models advertising strategies; which include the old maxiums such as the 10 second rule. "You have less than ten seconds to gain their attention and make your point"- after that most readers have moved on to look at the next thing that happens to catch their casual eye. These political operatives just applied old marketing techniques to an online political blogs.

Within the causal-driveby online reading environment, most people aren't going to read your more in-depth posts, nevermind Sowell's books. Without a prompt to motivate, they won't grant you futher time to convey your ideas and information. Look at billboards or magazine ads. Its the KISS principle: "Keep It Simple Stupid" - Titles are extremely short - Five words if possible- but communicate a concept immediately. That's why ad people earn the big bucks-. It is more of a challenge to convey an idea without unlimited space.

And, as you know- they use words/ideas that a seventh-grader would understand. I know you hate this idea. It is demeaning to your readers to craft a post designed for uneducated people who lack the discipline or the motivation to read and analysize complex ideas. However, the sad reality is that most do not have either the desire to put in the effort required or the ability to understand what you are communicating. Within an historical context, that is why you had people like Lenin decide to bypass attempting to educate the masses in order to push his revolution. Instead he trained an inner circle, while treating the masses to a bread and land PR campaign that had nothing to do with education, or involving the population beyond using propaganda to provoke them to violence when needed.

One thing revolutionaries have learned and continue to practice: how to effectively manipulate propaganda. We have not caught up.

I love this sites set up - so I am not suggesting that you should dumb it down. However, there isn't anything online that seems to be fullfilling that particular level of political news- expressed like an ad campaign. BB is not pulling it off and I can't put my finger on why.. thinking about it. and if the lightbulb hits.. I'll get back to you.

Posted by: I'd rather be surfin at February 17, 2013 09:59 PM (g5wi5)

561 We need to make leftism Uncool.

We can't afford our military

Posted by: God Toby at February 17, 2013 09:59 PM (kckSn)

562 One thing is for sure;

If Rove and Crossroads get control of everything with the GOP, the exact same mistakes will be made, and Rove will once again blame "extremists"

If you threw Rove in a lake he'd die of dehydration

Posted by: kbdabear at February 17, 2013 10:03 PM (mCvL4)

563 However, there isn't anything online that seems to be fullfilling that particular level of political news- expressed like an ad campaign. BB is not pulling it off and I can't put my finger on why.. thinking about it. and if the lightbulb hits.. I'll get back to you.
Posted by: I'd rather be surfin at February 17, 2013 09:59 PM (g5wi5)

___________________

On the right there isn't anything--on the left Huffington post probably fits the bill.

Ironice that she initially and falsely sold that as a "middle ground".

Posted by: tasker at February 17, 2013 10:05 PM (r2PLg)

564 the point up thread about those who aren't dummies and yet except the party line BS is well taken. It's not just uninformed people who are a problem but the MALinformed. And since president pants on fire will say anything at any time to anyone, their numbers are legion.
A friend is a Doc who believed that Obama had come to a compromise with the Catholic Church over O-care. They have not but O said they did. He believed it and was incredulous when I told him they had not accepted any compromise. He asked my if I thought O didn't know his own policies.

Posted by: typo dynamofo at February 17, 2013 10:06 PM (WVMUQ)

565 sail on
sail on
caught like a sewer rat

Posted by: God Toby at February 17, 2013 10:09 PM (kckSn)

566 kdabear: Yes. You and I both know Krugman is full of shit. But for every one of us, there are a thousand NYT readers who think his every pronunciation is gospel. That is us getting kicked in the nuts every time he writes a column.

Posted by: JohnW at February 17, 2013 10:09 PM (0vtx1)

567 "Because we're no longer talking about some airy abstract idea, of course. We're talking about something that gives him value."

The solution is to convince all leftists that they have no value at all anyways.

For one, it suggests to them that they should examine, factually, the world - which is always to their and our benefit.

And secondarily, it's true. Leftists have no value.

Posted by: Inspector Asshole at February 17, 2013 10:10 PM (UzocF)

568 Destroy them. It's them or the future.

Posted by: Trimegistus at February 17, 2013 10:11 PM (0VSTU)

569 For one, it suggests to them that they should examine, factually, the world - which is always to their and our benefit.

Fractals, fk, the essence lies in God, upon which you, as a weak person, can not decide...

Posted by: God Toby at February 17, 2013 10:15 PM (kckSn)

570 I put the pistol on the counter, whilst I peed.

9mm Kahr

Posted by: God Toby at February 17, 2013 10:22 PM (kckSn)

571 I wish ace could write, but technically I suppose its legal, it's barely interesting.

Just funnin you ace

Posted by: God Toby at February 17, 2013 10:30 PM (kckSn)

572 First time I saw someone else pick up on my theory.

Most
people only get to Stage One-level thinking. For example, "I support
Obamacare because everyone will have health coverage". That's Stage
One.

Stage Two, Three, Four, etc. are questions like "Do I keep
my doctor", "how many patients will he see", "will I get the same or
better level of care", "what will my wait time be", "will I have choice
over my care options", etc, etc. These drones never get to those
questions, they simply support the initial idea, feel good about doing
so, and then assume it will all come to pass as they imagine it. They
don't want questioned, they don't want to have to think too hard about
it, they just want it done.

This is why they will support "whatever means" to achieve that end, no matter how much liberty or freedom or money they surrender, and why they never bother to follow up on determining if the idea actually works.

That's
how Barry can have an ABYSMAL record and still get elected. That's why
the young support policies that will CRIPPLE them. They feel good about it, and don't want to think to hard. And if they suddenly do realize their dream went wrong, why, they just deflect blame onto a scapegoat - Bush, anyone?

These are bumpersticker-readers, headline-skimmers, funny picture viewers. The very definition of a low info voter. It's too late to educate them. They have to have the cinder block hit them in the face before they realize their driving into a wall.

The
Dems are cranking out more and more of them, and reaching more and more
of them. This is where any Repub opposition must focus their energy.
Don't try to explain reality and facts - the drones will tune out.
Instead, use ridicule (man's most potent weapon" against the Dems.

Posted by: Saltydonnie at February 17, 2013 10:42 PM (XG4Sp)

573 In my book of dreams, perfect syntax and verbiage, life sucks

Posted by: God Toby at February 17, 2013 10:45 PM (kckSn)

574 See
Sea
Saw
In the water
I will see

Posted by: God Toby at February 17, 2013 10:46 PM (kckSn)

575 464-Timwi - I agree.

Obama's boneheaded gaffes are going to outpace the MSM's most frenzied attempts to distract from or wallpaper over the obvious. "Laser focus" vs. golf with Tiger. "Tax the rich" vs. smaller paychecks in January.

But the people who have believed in him so passionately - how embarrassing it must be for them to see the lazy so-and-so blaming the House for not cooperating when His Executive Orderness can't be bothered to pick up the phone. If he can't be bothered to inquire how an ambassador under live fire is doing, he sure as hell won't chat up the guys across the aisle to help get some work done. Etc.

Posted by: Bluey Raisin at February 17, 2013 11:00 PM (cybTa)

576 Yeah, ace. You've been betrayed by The People. Lately, you sound like Goebbels in the bunker.

BTW. Idiocracy was a film satirizing CheneyBush knucklehead endstate.

You seem to me a low-info fucking dumbass. Your politics are the aesthetics of Cat Scratch Fever and cage fighting with occasional citation to a Newsbuster's developing story.

Posted by: ergastularius at February 17, 2013 11:18 PM (idLPZ)

577 I would say your aesthetics are the aestheticization of politics. Something like the pre-Mussolini futurism, without the supply of hot pussy.

Plus, you listen too much to Mommy. Stop fucking Mommy, ace.

Posted by: ergastularius at February 17, 2013 11:24 PM (idLPZ)

578 I think that telling the f*ing pukes to "read a book" is a perfect way to make they little heads explode. Don't want to hurt no peeps, but it might be cute to see them popping like zitz's up and down the avenue.

Posted by: and irresolute at February 17, 2013 11:26 PM (DBH1h)

579 where did the ace go to???

Posted by: Rectus at February 17, 2013 11:31 PM (K5fnE)

580 We really are seeing the triumph of the therapeutic. Rieff should be required reading.

Posted by: B Suess at February 18, 2013 12:35 AM (dbCzb)

581 Tell them what what it is they want: Freedom from choice! 'Cause choosin' is so hard.

Posted by: frankg at February 18, 2013 03:22 AM (NlJsJ)

582

I wonder how the genders line up with this.

I was reading the yes(hotair)post this morning Where Have All The Good Men Gone? at acculturated.com.

Dummying down, but also just plain lazy.

Posted by: beach at February 18, 2013 08:50 AM (LpQbZ)

583 low information voters are not on Twitter and Facebook ...

Posted by: JeffC at February 18, 2013 09:40 AM (dtOe6)

584 Lots of us knÝw how to do these things. Hell, I know how to do them and I know how to assemble a team, several teams, to do the same. The real fact is not a lack of talent but the odd and persistant fact that there is simply no funding for this. Not even a smidgen of the amounts that the left raises.

Posted by: vanderleun at February 18, 2013 11:32 AM (T7ZsH)

585 they're rhino peacocks living on rekaB Street.

Posted by: rlandes at February 18, 2013 02:24 PM (9N8i6)

586 that's rhino peacocks: http://tinyurl.com/bxweck2
at rekaB Street: http://tinyurl.com/cn7b4oc. it's the dynamic that produces emperor's new clothes.

Posted by: rlandes at February 18, 2013 02:26 PM (9N8i6)

587
Rubio 2016: He's Got What Plants Crave!

Posted by: Lucas at February 18, 2013 04:43 PM (flH3R)






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