Whether Greece Stays Or Leaves, It's Still A Disaster Of World-Threatening Scale

Greece owes 161 billion (billion with a b) Euros to other Eurozone governments (mostly Germany), and 50 billion (still with a b) to the European Central Bank.

They cannot possibly repay it. Not only can't they -- it's pretty clear they don't want to. They ran up a titanic bill on someone else's credit card, and are simply not going to be paying that. Ever.

There's an old saying: If you owe a bank a million dollars, it's your problem.

But if you owe a bank a billion dollars, it's the bank's problem.

I'm not sure what the election matters in the scheme of things -- stay or go, Greece is either simply going to repudiate its debt or Germany is going to have to cover the bill (a massive wealth transfer from Germany, and other more responsible nations, to Greece).

And it gets worse. Because even while taking a 70 billion write down, the Germans would then have to extend new credit to the Greeks, and hope they'd pay that back.

Which they won't. Duh.

And the Germans don't want to do that, for obvious reasons.

All this election stuff. The election doesn't change the basic fact. Whoever is in power, Greece cannot pay, and will not pay. And Spain cannot pay, either.

And the Germans do not want to send more of their wealth to foreigners. And Eurozone or not, they are foreigners. They already moved a substantial portion of the West German wealth to rescue East Germany (during reunionification).

I do not see any way out of this. The EuroZone project is doomed, and no one seems willing to confront this basic fact. And further, I don't even see how it helps all that much to confront it, except that Germany gets to keep its money.

Posted by: Ace at 07:32 PM



Comments

1 This is the slowest financial meltdown ever.

Posted by: TheLittlShiningMan at June 18, 2012 07:34 PM (PH+2B)

2 Retired at 50 in a failed State = Priceless!

Posted by: dfbaskwill at June 18, 2012 07:34 PM (ndlFj)

3 Saw this coming in 1995. The whole thing is a way to extort money out of Germany, and the Germans figure they deserve it because, Hitler.

Posted by: Oldcat at June 18, 2012 07:36 PM (z1N6a)

4 Destiny, destiny, no escaping, that's for me...

Posted by: Greece at June 18, 2012 07:36 PM (Ky1+e)

5 Wasn't this same thing happening a year ago?

I'd love to know, given that this has been going on for over a year, what preparations Obama has made to insulate the US from the worst of this. My guess is nothing.

Posted by: taylork at June 18, 2012 07:36 PM (ppNDn)

6 So now Obama has someone else to blame besides Bush? I'm sure he's glad to get off that broken record.

Posted by: John P. Squibob at June 18, 2012 07:36 PM (kqqGm)

7 I've never seen a house of cards fall so slowly.

Posted by: Dang at June 18, 2012 07:36 PM (Ky1+e)

8 I've never seen a house of cards fall so slowly.

I blame Voyage I reaching the heliosheath.

Posted by: John P. Squibob at June 18, 2012 07:37 PM (kqqGm)

9 Wait till the UEFA Championships end, only then will they give a shit. Speaking of which the "group of debt" ended today with Spain and Italy advancing.

Posted by: Adam Smith's Invisible Pimp Hand at June 18, 2012 07:38 PM (tKFT6)

10 What happens if Germany says screw the Euro
we're out instead of waiting for Greece?

Posted by: Roman Maroni at June 18, 2012 07:38 PM (KCCgc)

11 I'm betting the Germans will collect somehow.

Posted by: Dr Spank at June 18, 2012 07:38 PM (I/Xad)

12 We all know this shit is gonna blow up. What the hell is to be gained by staving off the inevitable? Get it over with. Hell awaits you.

Posted by: maddogg at June 18, 2012 07:39 PM (bIH06)

13 I just wish they'd hurry up and start a fucking war or something. The suspense is almost as bad as an Uwe Boll movie.

Posted by: weft cut-loop at June 18, 2012 07:40 PM (famk3)

14 Among Greece's largest exports to the US are stone, sand, cement and lime.

I think we're good. You can fuck off and die now.

Posted by: Dang at June 18, 2012 07:40 PM (Ky1+e)

15 I piss bigger than 70 billion - Baraka Obumbles

Posted by: The Jackhole at June 18, 2012 07:40 PM (nTgAI)

16 Well the typical European way is to declare the crisis over while kicking the can down the street until there's no more can or street.

I figure we've got another year or two of street left.

Posted by: Mætenloch at June 18, 2012 07:40 PM (pAlYe)

17 It's pretty amazing that things are so entangled that an economy the size of Maryland's can thoroughly fuck up a continent.

...I can't wait for California.

Posted by: taylork at June 18, 2012 07:41 PM (ppNDn)

18 I'm betting the Germans will collect somehow.

Lot's of accpunts in Greece have been transferred to other banks, mostly German.

Germany drops the Euro and re-institutes the Deutschmark. Others Euro countries follow suit. All Greek accounts outside of Greece are frozen.

Ooh, ooh, we all go home.

Posted by: John P. Squibob at June 18, 2012 07:41 PM (kqqGm)

19 We will gets our money, one way or another.

Posted by: GERMANY at June 18, 2012 07:42 PM (I/Xad)

20
Lets look at the history: Can you ever go wrong betting against European Leaders?

I have two words to describe this: in. sane.

Posted by: Jack at June 18, 2012 07:43 PM (wUFaM)

21 Yeah. It's fall more gently now or crash hard later. Spain, Italy.... it IS a house of cards.
And, what has Obama done to insulate us? Spend baby, Spend. Print baby, Print. QE to infinity. Bernanke and the Keynesians have shot their wad already.
Two words, sucka's. Precious Metals. Gold bitchez!

Posted by: keithp at June 18, 2012 07:43 PM (kduZC)

22 This is going to lead to higher taxes or more welfare, I just gotta feeling...

Posted by: Adam Smith's Invisible Pimp Hand at June 18, 2012 07:43 PM (tKFT6)

23 Just in time!

Our new Eurovision-tailored "Check the Box" software package.

Complete with all major language translations of "yes" "no" and "ask again later"

-- endorsed by the Americas!

Posted by: K-Tel Choomware at June 18, 2012 07:43 PM (vhwRj)

24 Well why should the Krauts invade Europe again? They fucking own the place by now. Now its time to evict the fucking freeloaders from the new German Fatherland.

Posted by: maddogg at June 18, 2012 07:43 PM (bIH06)

25 Europeans usually start going into neighboring countries and taking shit right about now. If you're too fucking lazy to work past age 50, why would you expect them to put up a fight?

I fucking hate Greece. Buh bye.

Posted by: Dang at June 18, 2012 07:43 PM (Ky1+e)

26 Lets look at the history: Can you ever go wrong betting against European Leaders?

I have two words to describe this: in. sane.

Posted by: Jack at June 18, 2012 07:43 PM (wUFaM)


Europe may have a lot of things, but no leaders.

Posted by: Oldcat at June 18, 2012 07:43 PM (z1N6a)

27 And when they unfreeze those accounts, Germany pays them back in Euros.

Posted by: John P. Squibob at June 18, 2012 07:44 PM (kqqGm)

28 Germany to Greece: "We'll be back"

Posted by: CanaDave at June 18, 2012 07:44 PM (lJSgG)

29 Maybe they should have thought about these things before forming the EU.

Compared to the US constitution, which is short and relatively easy to understand, the EU is a mess of hand-waving and wishful thinking. What are the real checks and balances behind EU directives? What makes their "independent" councils independent? And so on. The most basic crucial political questions are left unanswered.


I still can't get my mind around the fact that grown-ups did this.

Posted by: sandy burger at June 18, 2012 07:44 PM (k0pNf)

30 Well why should the Krauts invade Europe again? They
fucking own the place by now. Now its time to evict the fucking
freeloaders from the new German Fatherland.

Posted by: maddogg at June 18, 2012 07:43 PM (bIH06)
Becoming responsible for all these dumb countries should be the last thing they want, assuming they've learned anything in the last 20 years or so.

Posted by: Oldcat at June 18, 2012 07:44 PM (z1N6a)

31 Europeans usually start going into neighboring
countries and taking shit right about now. If you're too fucking lazy to
work past age 50, why would you expect them to put up a fight?

I fucking hate Greece. Buh bye.


Posted by: Dang at June 18, 2012 07:43 PM (Ky1+e)

They'd need to find an army on Craigslist first.

Posted by: Oldcat at June 18, 2012 07:45 PM (z1N6a)

32 If they can delay the kaboom! until after the US elections the additional good money flushed after the bad will save Obama. Is there anything more important than that?

And once past the election, Obama will of course have more 'flexibility' and not just with Putin. Expect him to open up the US Treasury once there isn't any fear of retribution from the votors. Because it just wouldn't do for Europe to die and for us to live. Some people just want to watch the world burn.

Posted by: John Morris at June 18, 2012 07:46 PM (YhRJW)

33


Europe should repossess Crete.

Posted by: what's fair is fair at June 18, 2012 07:46 PM (HOOye)

34 it should be "reunification" in the 2nd to last paragraph.


/layers of editors and fact-checkers

Posted by: DavidW at June 18, 2012 07:46 PM (VY2Ce)

35 How about that? The socialists are running out of other peoples' money.

Posted by: OregonMuse at June 18, 2012 07:46 PM (mm7B+)

36 The Greeks were quite content with the arrangement that someone else pay the bills while they were swilling ouzo, dancing, smashing plates, and shouting "Opa!" Now it's time to pay up and their reaction "We thought it was a gift!" Let them default let them pay their own bills for a change. Maybe they'll learn something.

Posted by: sandbagger at June 18, 2012 07:47 PM (6TbAE)

37 At least the columns in Greece aren't styrofoam.

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at June 18, 2012 07:47 PM (A5DYE)

38 They'd need to find an army on Craigslist first.
Posted by: Oldcat at June 18, 2012 07:45 PM (z1N6a)<<<<<Well, if they get an army they can afford, Ace's gay hipster slap fighters will have the opportunity of a lifetime.

Posted by: maddogg at June 18, 2012 07:48 PM (bIH06)

39 Lana.
Lana.
Lana.

Eurozone.

Posted by: Sterling Archer at June 18, 2012 07:48 PM (ZUFNn)

40 It's because of the Olympics...everywhere it goes, economic and political destruction follow...just watch what happens to the Brits after...

Posted by: CanaDave at June 18, 2012 07:49 PM (lJSgG)

41 Most rational answer I've heard, at this point, is that the Germans leave. The rest of the zone is equally (or nearly equally) fouled up, and can devalue the Euro together.

Posted by: Meiczyslaw at June 18, 2012 07:49 PM (bjRNS)

42 37 At least the columns in Greece aren't styrofoam.
Posted by: Guy Mohawk at June 18, 2012 07:47 PM (A5DYE)
==========


Or have O'Woof standing next to them...

Posted by: what's fair is fair at June 18, 2012 07:49 PM (HOOye)

43 Considering these Euroweenies have gutted their armed forces to pay for their socialism, I'd suggest that the banks and bondholders holding Greek debt hire a company like Blackwater (or XE or whatever they're called now) and "repossess" the country. They sure as hell won't fight back. Teach these feckless politicians and their socialist minions that there are consequences for stealing.
Because that's what its called when you take money and don't give it back.

Posted by: Iblis at June 18, 2012 07:50 PM (9221z)

44 One man's debt is another man's collateral...

Posted by: CanaDave at June 18, 2012 07:50 PM (lJSgG)

45 That fucker Savage is bashing the GOP and calling Romney the same as Obama. Same thing as he did in 2008.

Whatta fuckhead -- as bad as McCain was and Romney is, nobody could be as bad as Obama.

Fuck Michael Cabbage and all of his devoted asshole acolytes at the Kook Star, home of conservative defeatists.

Posted by: Ed Anger Issues at June 18, 2012 07:50 PM (7+pP9)

46 Reports that the Germans justa bunch of Nazis in 3...2....1...

Posted by: AndrewsDad at June 18, 2012 07:52 PM (C2//T)

47 Math.

It's what's for dinner.

Posted by: Circa (Insert Year Here) at June 18, 2012 07:52 PM (B9nls)

48 I am beginning to think this whole "Socialism" idea doesn't work as intended. The shocking part is that you can't just borrow and spend forever with no consequences.

I guess Margaret Thatcher was right after all.

You want to know how I know Barack Obama is not an intelligent man?

He believes this stuff is a GOOD idea.

Posted by: Bill Mitchell at June 18, 2012 07:53 PM (hlUJY)

49 The American election is approaching and we're expecting to make a killing in sales of Greek columns.

Posted by: The Greeks at June 18, 2012 07:54 PM (QKKT0)

50 I was in Greece in 89 and 90. They had a couple of elections then that nobody won. I was young and American, I thought it was so funny.

At any rate, they were angling to get the 96 Olympics then, and the bid they submitted basically had the rest of Europe footing 90% of the bill. This was not as popular as it could have been, the Greeks didn't get it.

So for some reason they did the same thing in 2004 and it worked.

Go figure.

Posted by: blaster at June 18, 2012 07:54 PM (HR5x9)

51 The EU has MRSA.
The doctors keep wiping the affected areas hoping it does not spread.

Posted by: Anna Puma at June 18, 2012 07:56 PM (hTvnI)

52 company like Blackwater (or XE or whatever they're called now)

They are called Academi now.

Posted by: hobbes at June 18, 2012 07:56 PM (OEQY9)

53

European socialism is an epic failure.
And yet....Barky and his merry band of thieves, still want to drag us even further into the same damn thing.

Their solution for everything....is more of the same thing that has already failed.
And those elitist bastards in the media-entertainment complex, just keep on covering over the truth of it.

Posted by: wheatie at June 18, 2012 07:57 PM (M2JTb)

54 >>>I blame Voyage I reaching the heliosheath.

HAHAHAH HA HA HA ha ha

[/slowing down sound effects]

Posted by: Max Power at June 18, 2012 07:58 PM (q177U)

55 How the hell did it ever get that far?

Posted by: You Make It, We Wil Live Off What You Make. at June 18, 2012 07:58 PM (AzwZn)

56 Ace, you cut right to the heart of the matter without all the acronyms and fancy schemes of the smart people. They aren't going to pay. There is no hope that those economies can generate revenue by taxing wealth creation at a rate that would even make a dent in the principal, let alone the ever-compounding interest. Stick a fork in it. the euro's done.

Posted by: Luke Duke at June 18, 2012 07:59 PM (VgTyK)

57 If Greece repudiates its debt, the German banks that loaned the money will be hurting bad (as the post said, if you owe a billion to the bank, the bank has a problem). But that seems like the best of the possible outcomes now!

Loaning additional money to Greece is sending good money after bad. The situation wouldn't change fundamentally, only now Germany would lose even more money when Greece finally repudiates its debt.

It really doesn't seem like Greece is planning to repay the loans. A hint of austerity and the Greeks are rioting in the streets.

It seems like the end of the Euro is inevitable at this point!

And yeah, I'm not looking forward to California imploding either.

Posted by: mr_jack at June 18, 2012 07:59 PM (TMG3G)

58 How the hell did it ever get that far?

You talking about Socialism in general, the Greeks in particular, or Voyage I?

Posted by: John P. Squibob at June 18, 2012 08:00 PM (kqqGm)

59
Meh, they dug their financial crater and had a good time doing it. I only hope they don't take the rest of the financial world down when they hit bottom.

Another case of failed socialism, on a minor scale, owing that Greece is tiny in comparison to Spain and a few other Eurozone countries.

Posted by: Gmac at June 18, 2012 08:00 PM (5nIH8)

60 Greece hasn't made an art out of defaulting on sovereign debt like most of Latin America but, they've defaulted before and they will undoubtedly default again. Most European countries have at least one default or restructuring behind them, many have done it multiple times.

There is a seemingly endless supply of suckers willing to step up and offer credit. Look at Ecuador, Argentina, Nicaragua, etc. Those assholes renege on their debt more often than Biden changes his underwear and the credit just keeps coming. We may eventually see a replay of the 80's where basically all of Latin America, Africa, SE Asia and Eastern Europe defaulted, it'll just be Southern Europe this time.

Posted by: Gristle Encased Head at June 18, 2012 08:01 PM (+lsX1)

61 Isn't Germany tired of wearing the Daddy Saddle? Slow, slower, slowestest motion collapse ever.

Posted by: Lady in Black at June 18, 2012 08:01 PM (vOMX+)

62 Merkel will be ousted at the first opportunity and then things are really gonna get effed up.

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at June 18, 2012 08:02 PM (piMMO)

63 Guess what? THE US CAN'T PAY ITS DEBT EITHER!

Posted by: wierd flunky at June 18, 2012 08:02 PM (tlhtD)

64 And yeah, I'm not looking forward to California imploding either.

There is hope. I wasn't surprised that San Diego gave the finger to the unions, but that San Jose did, too, is a good sign.

Posted by: Meiczyslaw at June 18, 2012 08:03 PM (bjRNS)

65 The Greeks can shove it up their ass.

Posted by: nickless at June 18, 2012 08:03 PM (MMC8r)

66 I still can't get my mind around the fact that grown-ups did this.
Posted by: sandy burger at June 18, 2012 07:44 PM (k0pNf)


-------------------------------------------------------


Who told you they were grown-ups. If there was any post-war generations that have no grasp of reality, it's the European post-war generation. I knew when I was living in Germany back in the 70's that they couldn't perpetuate the lifestyle that they were living. These people never grew up. It's a continent of OWSers.

Posted by: Soona - free at last at June 18, 2012 08:03 PM (UnERc)

67 There is no hope that those economies can generate revenue by taxing
wealth creation at a rate that would even make a dent in the principal,

-------------

This is strangely familiar.

Posted by: America's $16 trillion debt at June 18, 2012 08:04 PM (vOMX+)

68
For 160 billion, ve take Mykonos.

You keep Lesbos.

Posted by: Der Fodderland at June 18, 2012 08:04 PM (UuLBC)

69 Europe trembles at the thought of the Greek Army being mobilized.

Posted by: nickless at June 18, 2012 08:06 PM (MMC8r)

70 How the hell did it ever get that far?

You talking about Socialism in general, the Greeks in particular, or Voyage I?
-------------------------------

LOL! The Greek debt.

How come at, say, $100 billion in the hole did someone not realize Greece could not pay it back?

Posted by: You Make It, We Wil Live Off What You Make. at June 18, 2012 08:07 PM (AzwZn)

71 Soros has like 10's of billions worth right? Just take all his shit and get squared up.

Posted by: Purp (@PurpAv) at June 18, 2012 08:07 PM (dRlot)

72 Just fire up the printing presses, we will never run out of money you stupid wingnuts!

Posted by: The Obamateur at June 18, 2012 08:08 PM (VrVBw)

73 In other words, we're good to go full retard right?

Posted by: France at June 18, 2012 08:08 PM (GZitp)

74 Soros has like 10's of billions worth right? Just take all his shit and get squared up.

Soros will make a killing on the collapse of the Euro, watch.

Posted by: nickless at June 18, 2012 08:09 PM (MMC8r)

75 How come at, say, $100 billion in the hole did someone not realize Greece could not pay it back?

They need to maybe sell some of those islands. People are going to need places to flee to and hide their wealth, Greece could become the new Caymen Islands and erase all that debt in the process.

Posted by: Purp (@PurpAv) at June 18, 2012 08:09 PM (dRlot)

76 Look, I would love to own a Greek villa on the sea
with a hot young greek goddess to go along with it....

Greece just needs to have a fire sale and let all the Greeks move to New York and Chicago.....

"That looks like a nice villa and young daughter you have there - be a shame if some Socialist scumbag
came into possession of that......"

Posted by: izoneguy at June 18, 2012 08:09 PM (hbRed)

77 This Greek bathhouse smells like sauerkraut and ass, but mostly...

Posted by: Fritz at June 18, 2012 08:09 PM (ZN5qR)

78 I'd like to buy the Pantheon and make it into the world's largest Wa Wa.

Posted by: Soona - free at last at June 18, 2012 08:12 PM (UnERc)

79 77 - hey, don't gimme that stink eye, I'm a wholesome fermented food a few peppers & garlic cloves shy of kim chee. don't f*ck wid me.

Posted by: sauerkraut at June 18, 2012 08:13 PM (5tGed)

80
Nothin' wrong with going Greek. Just sayin

Posted by: Andi Sullivan at June 18, 2012 08:17 PM (VrVBw)

81 The Greeks can shove it up their ass.[i/]

There's a joke in there somewhere...

Posted by: Shecky Greek at June 18, 2012 08:18 PM (HtUdo)

82 The Brits sold London Bridge to an American back in 1968 and it was moved here. Someone would buy the Pantheon and move it to like Orlando.

Posted by: Purp (@PurpAv) at June 18, 2012 08:18 PM (dRlot)

83 Merkel will be ousted at the first opportunity and then things are really gonna get effed up.


Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at June 18, 2012 08:02 PM

Merkel's no Maggie Thatcher, but she's a pretty tough old bird. But you're right. The German's are gonna get tired of spending their hard earned $$ for lay-abouts in another country boot her out. Do they actually have anyone else who is electable that won't just make things worse??

Posted by: myYbj at June 18, 2012 08:19 PM (myYbj)

84 Merkel's no Maggie Thatcher, but she's a pretty tough old bird. But
you're right. The German's are gonna get tired of spending their hard
earned $$ for lay-abouts in another country boot her out. Do they
actually have anyone else who is electable that won't just make things
worse??


****

The problem for Merkel is she does want austerity and her people don't much care for it and she lost some ground in recent elections. With all the other HoS, including the SCOAMF, telling her to "chill" on the austerity stuff, yeah, it will get much worse without her.

Our own fuck up telling her how to get things done just infuriates me.

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at June 18, 2012 08:25 PM (piMMO)

85 9 "Wait till the UEFA Championships end, only then will they give a shit."

And the next round of the UEFA Championships features a playoff game between . . . Germany and Greece!

Posted by: The Q at June 18, 2012 08:27 PM (LnQhT)

86 I agree with #10. Then Greece explodes, followed by Italy and Spain. And after that, France takes a dive with no one to rescue it. Moral of the story: Socialism don't work, stupid.

Posted by: Mr_Write at June 18, 2012 08:27 PM (hiMsy)

87 The Brits sold London Bridge to an American back in 1968 and it was
moved here. Someone would buy the Pantheon and move it to like Orlando.


****

I can't remember who, maybe Dennis Miller, said they could make a fortune on sponshorships... The Delphi Parthenon, The IBM Coliseum...

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at June 18, 2012 08:28 PM (piMMO)

88 76 Look, I would love to own a Greek villa on the sea with a hot young greek goddess to go along with it....
Posted by: izoneguy at June 18, 2012 08:09 PM (hbRed)


...until the Isalmic Turks decide to recreate the Ottoman empire...

Posted by: The Political Hat at June 18, 2012 08:29 PM (EmK13)

89 God how I wish the Germans just acted like this to the rest of the Euroweenies:

http://youtu.be/5ydqjqZ_3oc

Posted by: The Q at June 18, 2012 08:30 PM (LnQhT)

90
There was an article on ZeroHedge that explained that the biggest problem is really Italy. They are being forced to loan Greece money they don't have. In the agreement there is a ceiling of 3% interest rate to be charged to Greece while Italy has to borrow that money at 7% interest.
Another fuckin ponzi scheme...poor bastards.

Posted by: Scottye_FL at June 18, 2012 08:30 PM (kb15i)

91 The Brits sold London Bridge to an American back in
1968 and it was moved here. Someone would buy the Pantheon and move it
to like Orlando.


Posted by: Purp (@PurpAv) at June 18, 2012 08:18 PM (dRlot)

There's already a Parthenon in Nashville.The Pantheon is in Rome.

Posted by: Oldcat at June 18, 2012 08:31 PM (z1N6a)

92 @87: uh, the Coliseum is in Italy.

How about the Victoria's Secret Lesbos?

Posted by: CoolCzech at June 18, 2012 08:31 PM (niZvt)

93 There was an article on ZeroHedge that explained
that the biggest problem is really Italy. They are being forced to loan
Greece money they don't have. In the agreement there is a ceiling of 3%
interest rate to be charged to Greece while Italy has to borrow that
money at 7% interest.
Another fuckin ponzi scheme...poor bastards.

Posted by: Scottye_FL at June 18, 2012 08:30 PM (kb15i)

That's Spain the Italians have to pay for, not Greece.

Posted by: Oldcat at June 18, 2012 08:32 PM (z1N6a)

94 Obama is a stuttering clusterf*ck of a miserable failure.

Posted by: steevy at June 18, 2012 08:32 PM (Xb3hu)

95 94 Obama is a stuttering clusterf*ck of a miserable failure.
Posted by: steevy at June 18, 2012 08:32 PM (Xb3hu)


Yes. But he's our SCOAMF.


*SOB!*

Posted by: CoolCzech at June 18, 2012 08:34 PM (niZvt)

96
Posted by: Oldcat at June 18, 2012 08:32 PM (z1N6a)

Thanks for the correction

Posted by: Scottye_FL at June 18, 2012 08:35 PM (kb15i)

97 You've been reading too much DOOM, Ace. The EU and the rest of the world will muddle through this.

Posted by: Pigilito at June 18, 2012 08:40 PM (CU+o0)

98 This is all be design. The internationalist socialist lefties want to "redistribute wealth." They ate getting away with it because the German political parties are wholly-owned subsidiaries of the EU nomenklatura. Just as long as the German people get their hit of welfare, they don't care what happens.

This will not end well.

Posted by: The Political Hat at June 18, 2012 08:42 PM (EmK13)

99 The Ulsterman Report site works with two anonymous insiders (one may be james carvell). The insiders say Greece is not the last domino. It is Italy. Supposedly when Italy goes bankrupt, that's when the IMF will move in to create a one world currency.

Crazy, I know, but go over to ZeroHedge. There's a story about Italy there. And it is not good.

Posted by: shibumi at June 18, 2012 08:49 PM (z63Tr)

100 3 Saw this coming in 1995. The whole thing is a way to extort money out of Germany, and the Germans figure they deserve it because, Hitler.

Germans have figured they deserve it because, Hitler.
Young Germans going forward, don't.

Posted by: BuddyPC at June 18, 2012 08:51 PM (RAfJm)

101 Maybe, just maybe, if we believe, the Euro will come back, and the whole euro project will finally bring about the uh...Europe that uh...expresses the European characteristics of uh...Europeaness...essence. Something.

Posted by: Minuteman at June 18, 2012 09:05 PM (qs9G3)

102 So basically $200B for a WHOLE COUNTRY, that really isn't that much more than our "successful" bailout of one car company that we will never get back.

$35B to GM is no big but $200B to Greece is going to destabilize the entire world economy?

Posted by: traye at June 18, 2012 09:08 PM (hGM/v)

103 germany should have listened to its bundesbank...what was the PM's name? kohl?...who conspired with socialist france to an early abolition of the DM?

and in england, they STILL don't play GOD SAVE MRS THATCHER. conservatives get it right and people pretend like they didn't see it happen.

Posted by: jimi ray at June 18, 2012 09:10 PM (FcOR4)

104 We Germans are not all smiles und sunshine.

Posted by: fritz at June 18, 2012 09:19 PM (QupBk)

105 but go over to ZeroHedge.

No thanks.

Posted by: Waterhouse at June 18, 2012 09:24 PM (SwfJW)

106 I dunno, I think ZeroHedge is pretty cool. I like their vampire-squid imagery especially.

Posted by: a German of a prior generation at June 18, 2012 09:25 PM (QTHTd)

107 I believe the world will face Armageddon soon, as the good book predicts. Nice God we got.

Posted by: Licked at June 18, 2012 09:27 PM (saovO)

108 Germans have figured they deserve it because, Hitler.

Young Germans going forward, don't.

Posted by: BuddyPC at June 18, 2012 08:51 PM (RAfJm)
Excellent. All is proceeding according to plan.


Posted by: Zombie Hitler at June 18, 2012 09:27 PM (6LvlL)

109 Pull my finger.

Posted by: the invisible hand at June 18, 2012 09:28 PM (QupBk)

110 Soon, ray. Soon.

Posted by: toby928© at June 18, 2012 09:28 PM (QupBk)

111 Anyway, ZeroHedge is full of antisemitic scum, but when their joo-baiting is filtered out, they do note some important stuff about the world's banking industry.

And, no, that's not "code". It was non-Jewish bankers (English, German, American and especially French) who buggered the planet in the 1920s and 1930s. Liaquat Ahmed's book "Lords of Finance" is good here.

Wish we could have a ZeroHedge that wasn't full of evil. I suppose that's where Monty came in...

Posted by: Boulder Toilet Hobo at June 18, 2012 09:29 PM (QTHTd)

112 Excellent cut to the chase. Med economies including Italy have been living beyond their means for years. Now, Italy is a bit of a special case as the north and south are almost two different countries and Germany has close industrial links with the north.
But the biggest deniers here are the thousands of bureaucrats and pols living the make believe land in Brussels and living the high life at the expense of the taxpayer.

Can you even imagine a deposit guarantee scheme (in every sense of the world) covering all the commercial banks in the Eurozone ? How to administer it, enforce rules and monitor compliance.

No Greece will be a slow motion train wreck and the EU bureaucrats hope to kick the can, perhaps into the next decade..but the Euro will be done far before then.

Posted by: standfast24 at June 18, 2012 09:30 PM (s4wkw)

113 I believe Hitler was a Christian, many of his speeches indicate so

LOL

Should I list Hitlers quotes indicating such?

Posted by: Licked at June 18, 2012 09:33 PM (saovO)

114 "My feelings as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter. It points me to the man who once in loneliness, surrounded by a few followers...

The Speeches of Adolf Hitler, April 1922-August 1939, Vol. 1 of 2, pp. 19-20, Oxford University Press, 1942)

Posted by: Licked at June 18, 2012 09:37 PM (saovO)

115 Posted by: Licked at June 18, 2012 09:33 PM (saovO)


Sure. But go read Deitrich Bonhoeffer's biography first, so you have some idea what you're talking about.

Posted by: Methos at June 18, 2012 09:39 PM (6LvlL)

116 "Christianity could not content itself with building up its own altar; it was absolutely forced to undertake the destruction of the heathen altars. Only from this fanatical intolerance could its apodictic faith take form; this intolerance is, in fact, its absolute presupposition." -Adolf Hitler Mein Kampf

I dont think Hitler liked the Jews and He was Christian.

Posted by: Licked at June 18, 2012 09:41 PM (saovO)

117 Google reveals that there is quite a cottage industry of people who's life apparently revolves around the idea that Christianity is somehow tainted by Hitler.

Sad, yet predictable.

Posted by: toby928© at June 18, 2012 09:43 PM (QupBk)

118 ""The personification of the devil as the symbol of all evil assumes the living shape of the Jew." -Adolf Hitler Mein Kampf '

Sounds like another cons love of Mammon to me....

Posted by: Licked at June 18, 2012 09:44 PM (saovO)

119 “The best characterization is provided by the product of this religious education, the Jew himself. His life is only of this world, and his spirit is inwardly as alien to true Christianity as his nature two thousand years previous was to the great founder of the new doctrine. Of course, the latter made no secret of his attitude toward the Jewish people, and when necessary he even took the whip to drive from the temple of the Lord this adversary of all humanity, who then as always saw in religion nothing but an instrument for his business existence. In return, Christ was nailed to the cross, while our present- day party Christians debase themselves to begging for Jewish votes at elections and later try to arrange political swindles with atheistic Jewish parties-- and this against their own nation.”–Adolf Hitler (Mein Kampf)

Sorry cons, your precious, was Christian.

Posted by: Licked at June 18, 2012 09:47 PM (saovO)

120 Forgot LOL

Posted by: Licked at June 18, 2012 09:47 PM (saovO)

121 zh is pretty conspiratorily minded, yeah...everything is orchestrated by the overlords...but they're also the smartest goddamn financiers in the country.

with a decent enough filter, zh is the best financial reading you can do on a daily basis.

and, hell, what a celebration when helicopter ben FINALLY DOES play the qe3 card? zh has been predicting that shit for years xD

Posted by: jimi ray at June 18, 2012 09:47 PM (FcOR4)

122 “Hence today I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord.” –Adolf Hitler (Mein Kampf)

ODD

Posted by: Licked at June 18, 2012 09:52 PM (saovO)

123 Adolph was a Christian. His words say he was, and thats all Jesus required...

Case closed

Posted by: Licked at June 18, 2012 09:57 PM (saovO)

124 Jesus require(s) or require(d)

Posted by: Licked at June 18, 2012 09:59 PM (saovO)

125 You know nothing of my work.

Posted by: Jesus at June 18, 2012 10:00 PM (QupBk)

126 "Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn"

- Licked (Faggotry for Fun and Profit)


Why should be believe the words of a Cthulhu cultist?

Posted by: Yog-Sothoth at June 18, 2012 10:01 PM (EmK13)

127 George Harrison knew the true meaning of spirituality.

I was humbled today by his and the other's (Lennon) beliefs

John Lennon

Posted by: Licked at June 18, 2012 10:06 PM (saovO)

128 Let's not fool ourselves. We're screwed. This is such a familiar situation to me, like watching housing go up and up based on people buying homes they clearly cannot afford. You could tell it was all going to fall apart some time, but nobody knew exactly when or how badly.

Convenient of it to trigger just when McCain took a lead in the polls over Obama like that, how it did. Fortuitous, even.

But this financial thing is not over with yet. Its just crashed halfway down the ravine, waiting to explode then fall the rest of the way. And nobody knows when that's going to happen.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at June 18, 2012 10:06 PM (r4wIV)

129 Ace,

Greece having to leave the EuroZone does not make the Euro or the EU a failure. Hell, we have 6 countries in Africa that have been pegged to the France/Euro for ~50 years now, a currency union is clearly doable....just not for the Greeks.

Greece + Ireland + Portugal combined aren't enough to make a dent in the Euro experiment one way or the other if they are let go by Merkel and the ECB. They're tiny. Greece repudiating their debt does not harm the euro, any more than the several gov't banks and Agencies in China that repudiated their debt in the late 90s made the Yuan unusable.

And there's always more clever solutions, such as a Big Euro and a Little Euro [of lesser value] for the various countries: Germany, Holland, France et al have no change in currency or debts, the PIIGS start the Little Euro at some new fx rate devaluation, and some amount of repudiated debt.

Take ~30% off each of those two factors and you're down to Greece owing about 90bn. Which can be rolled forward once investors calm down and the euro-zone gets settled again. [Even Greece can do 6Bn over 15 years, etc].

Posted by: horn at June 18, 2012 10:07 PM (tAHf5)

130 ohhmmmmm

Posted by: Licked at June 18, 2012 10:12 PM (saovO)

131 horn, I'd love to have what you're smoking.

Portugal going splat means Spanish banks are in a world of hurt. Except that Spain is already in a world of hurt. Please, do tell us which six African countries are doing so super-awesome that they can bail out Spain-Portugal, save Italy, and shore up France.

Posted by: Boulder Toilet Hobo at June 18, 2012 10:14 PM (QTHTd)

132 112 The North of Italy is essentially German, having been part of either the Holy Roman Empire, Bavaria or Austria. Mussolini spent a lot of time trying to Italianize the Sud Tyrol.

Posted by: Fox2! at June 18, 2012 10:15 PM (RJOgX)

133 I believe Hitler had his Christianity all wrong

Posted by: Licked at June 18, 2012 10:18 PM (saovO)

134 Harrison recalled how he and Lennon kept on singing the mantra while sailing through the Greek islands, "because you couldn't stop once you got going…It was like as soon as you stop, it was like the lights went out." Later in an interview with Krishna devotee Mukunda Goswami he explained how chanting helps one identify with the Almighty: "God's all happiness, all bliss, and by chanting His names we connect with Him.

Posted by: Licked at June 18, 2012 10:20 PM (saovO)

135 Licked;

Now the question becomes, was he actually Christian, or using it as a political ploy to gain support in a predominantly Christian country?

Kinda like how this one Atheist I knew at college kept playing Christian to either play gotcha or get into a girl's pants.

Posted by: Ranba Ral at June 18, 2012 10:21 PM (Xl1ul)

136 Also, WTF does Hitler being Christian or not have to do with the Greeks probably being the cause of WWIII in Europe?

Posted by: Ranba Ral at June 18, 2012 10:22 PM (Xl1ul)

137 Wow this Licked douche seems to know fuckall about Christianity, but a shit ton about Hitler and Mein Kampf. Interesting how the sub human clown show all starts to sound the same after a while. I'm sure that's just an odd coincidence.

Posted by: is what JQ Public thinks... at June 18, 2012 10:24 PM (NBj0d)

138 To be Christian
All you have to "say"
Is that you believe
That you profess faith
And Hitler did say such

Posted by: Licked at June 18, 2012 10:25 PM (saovO)

139 Ignore raykon, y'all. He had his ass handed to him last time he came here with that bullshit. He already knows. That's why he's considered a troll.

Posted by: Boulder Toilet Hobo at June 18, 2012 10:34 PM (QTHTd)

140 I say life is much more than professing silly faith in a parents dogma.

Posted by: Licked at June 18, 2012 10:34 PM (saovO)

141 What's amusing is that it actually appears to believe what its' saying. If it were an art collector, it'd have the worlds biggest collection of finger paintings.

Posted by: is what JQ Public thinks... at June 18, 2012 10:37 PM (NBj0d)

142 Pleasure and pain
The essence of life
Evolution
Revolution
Helter Skelter

Posted by: Licked at June 18, 2012 10:41 PM (saovO)

143 George Harrisons world was more complicated than a Christians, as Hitler should teach...

Posted by: Licked at June 18, 2012 10:43 PM (saovO)

144 who changed my posts???

Posted by: Licked at June 18, 2012 10:45 PM (saovO)

145 Hitler was a Christian
Harrison was a God believer
Ace?

Posted by: Licked at June 18, 2012 10:47 PM (saovO)

146 Revolution
The USSR
Tale of 2 cities

Posted by: Licked at June 18, 2012 10:53 PM (saovO)

147 "(during reunionification)"

Haahahahahahhahahaaa...

Posted by: Blacque Jacques Shellacque at June 18, 2012 10:53 PM (1rHeD)

148 I believe the lords of Wall Street
Will unite us in a bliss of trash

Posted by: Licked at June 18, 2012 10:59 PM (saovO)

149 I'm not giving Greece any money. In fact, I'm spending the money on Panzer divisions instead.

Posted by: Angela_Merkel at June 18, 2012 11:35 PM (dhz9q)

150 I was thriftiness at the local Goodwill and found a book from back in the day explaining why the EU was going to become the world power that would put America on the decline.

Licked... I don't know what Christianity you have studied, which denomination or sect, but none that I know of agree that saying you are a Christian makes you one. I'm pretty sure you actually have to be a believer to be considered by anyone who is a Christian to be one. It's not like just saying "beetlejuice, beetlejuice, beetlejuice"

Posted by: Auntie Doodles at June 19, 2012 12:02 AM (N1hZp)

151 The name of the book from 2005 (!!!!!!!): The United States of Europe: The New Superpower and the End of American Supremecy. Ha!

Posted by: Auntie Doodles at June 19, 2012 12:11 AM (N1hZp)

152 I'm an f'n dick
Who writes deep and funny poetree
Golly gee,
I amuse me

Posted by: Licked at June 19, 2012 02:06 AM (dN6wh)

153 Christianity is for dupes
Hitler proves it
I'm smart and you're dumb
Buddha told me

What the fuck does this have to do with Greece?
It doesn't matter
I'm very perceptive
Awesomeness, really

Posted by: Licked at June 19, 2012 02:10 AM (dN6wh)

154 Actually, the expression is, "If you owe the bank athousand dollars, the bank owns you. If you owe the bank a million dollars, you own the bank." It was coined by in professional paper on risk-adjusted returns by W. Braddock Hickman, former president of the Federal Reserve Bank of Cleveland. He also coined the phrase, "Chain a man and you have a slave. Chain a man's wallet and you have a revenue stream."

Posted by: Manolo at June 19, 2012 08:19 AM (0Tt2x)






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