Peter Hart (D) Focus Group: Independents Who Voted For Obama Are Now Turning Away

Tipping point. Even Eleanor Clift, who could never find Democratic spin absurd enough for her to discard, hits the panic button.

Nine of the 12 people gathered in Denver on Tuesday voted for Obama in ’08, but only three lean toward him at this point. They are a cross-section of America, working in real estate, health care, IT, and sales, and they’re torn between a president whose performance they say has been underwhelming and who doesn’t deserve reelection, and a challenger they know very little about beyond the fact that he’s a rich and successful businessman.

Read the whole thing to get a sense of this group. And to remind you: They're not conservatives; if they were, they wouldn't be independents. For example, they credit Obama with "reining in the credit card companies."

The sort of thing O'Reilly likes, "lookin' out for the folks." That's part of why O'Reilly is popular, because he believes in things that people who don't really know all that much believe, too.

This seems to confirm Larry Sabato's analysis that most independents are down on Obama, but Romney hasn't closed the deal with them yet. On the plus side, they seem to know almost nothing of Romney, apart from the fact that he's rich, and also that he was successful in business, and also he made a lot of money. (Yes, I know, that's all the same thing; that seems to be all they know.)

Which makes this a critical period for Romney. Such people know precious little about him, and seem receptive to him (in as much as they have doubts about Obama), but they're not there yet.

That said, let's get to the Obama-knocking bits.

Whether it’s a failure of policy or of communications is debatable, but the sense of disillusionment with Obama’s performance is real. “He set up expectations that began 46 months ago, and they only grew over time,” says Hart. He singled out Jeffrey, a 31-year-old Web designer and home remodeler, as the voter Obama most needs and might not get. Jeffrey voted for Obama last time.

“The whole platform was hope—I don’t feel any more hope today,” he said. Pressed by Hart as to which candidate he was leaning toward, Jeffrey said the tenor of the campaign turned him off, that he felt like he was in the middle of a weird argument between a husband and wife, and all he wanted to do was leave the room. “I don’t even know if I’m going to vote this time,” he said glumly.


...

Asked how each [candidate] would perform if they were lost in the forest with nine friends, the group concluded Romney would use his super-duper expensive phone to call for help, with Donald Trump and wife Ann Romney topping the call list, while Obama would give a pep talk and then retreat to the sidelines. There’s the campaign in a microcosm.

For Obama, this was a devastating departure from how voters responded to a similar question four years ago, when they said then candidate Obama would work with you, reason with you, and bring out the best in you. This time, says Hart, there was “no sense of leadership.” These are hard-nosed assessments five months out from the election, and the Obama campaign ignores them at its peril.

One of the most frustrating thing about the politically unaware is their unchanging belief that Something must be done! (all attempts to panic the public into agreeing that Something Must Be Done! are directed at this cohort), but they have little idea of what, specifically, should be done. Something. You know, something. Something must be done, why are you not getting this?

One thing many conservatives never acknowledge is that, ultimately, a successful candidate must agree with this cohort that Something Must Be Done. They cannot be argued out of this position; they've held it all their lives. It's not merely a belief, it's an article of faith.

It's the single thing they know about politics -- Something must be done.

Ultimately the battle is convincing these "folks" (as O'Reilly calls them) that what you're proposing counts as "something."

I never understand calls that the "government shouldn't be involved in this" or the "government should do nothing." Oh, I understand the ideology under it; but the people saying these things don't seem to realize that the swing voters have spoken, and, you know, it's the same thing they've been saying for 50 years: Something must be done.

If you believe in laissez-faire economics, you shouldn't say the government should not be involved in the private sector, as a matter of politics. You should say, as Romney does, that the government should "unleash the private sector."

See, that's something. He's saying he's going to do Something. Something must be done, and that something is "unleashing the private sector."

Just something to keep in mind. The difference we're quibbling about, in some of these ideological disputes, is whether we're going to employ an active verb or a passive verb in describing policy.

Newt Knew This! Newt was a master of this. He was always proposing to do something, and not just do something, mind you, but do something fundamentally transformative.

Because, Something Must Be Done.

They Know Who They're Voting For: Frank Luntz always makes this point: This sort of person likes saying they haven't made up their minds yet. They think it's a good thing to delay decision-making; only partisans make snap decisions, after all.

That's a bit of ego in this cohort -- they're not partisans. They do not make decisions based only only on partisanship or ideology. They make decisions based upon "facts" (but the fact is, they know fewer facts than partisans on either side of the aisle).

Now, Luntz gets frustrated, because in his focus-groups, these sorts of people swear up and down on the Bible that they haven't made any decisions, but when you keep asking them, it becomes clear they have made decisions on almost all the factors which will produce their ultimate decision.

Like, in 2008, they might say "Obama would be better for the economy, he has better leadership skills, he's smarter than McCain, he understands ordinary people's problems better than McCain."

And then you ask, "So you're voting for Obama, then?" And they say, "Oh no, I haven't decided yet. I'm waiting for all the facts."

What facts? You think Obama is superior in every important way. What exactly are you waiting for, to admit your preference?

In other words, they have decided -- they just think it makes them seem like smarter, more informed voters to claim they're still deciding, so they won't admit that. As they're actually not very well informed voters -- and I think they know this -- this pretense becomes very important to them. They need some pretense to excuse away their complete disinterest in reading the news.

So they basically start insisting they want the candidates themselves to catch them up to speed, ignoring the fact that policies are spelled out on their campaign websites, and ignoring the fact that these positions are easily and readily discoverable, just by googling and reading.

But they don't want to do any of that, so they just keep saying they'll make their decision when a candidate "gives them the facts," which he already did (well, facts and claims and arguments and themes and spin, at least).

All of this is readily discoverable, but they just keep claiming they need someone to explain the facts to them, before they can decide.

Luntz has this problem with focus groups of independents every time, and notes it every time.

So I would be even more optimistic about this finding than their actual replies indicate.

That said, they still insist that Something Must Be Done and you contradict them at your very great peril.

Suggestion for Romney: Do a series of three one-hour videos explaining basic economics, and your plan. Release it with much fanfare. Make sure it's pretty difficult to contradict.

Here's my thinking: This cohort you're trying to convince will not watch it. They don't follow the news, and they sure as hell aren't going to watch a three hour video on basic economic policy.

But they will hear you did this, and this might help satisfy their insistence that you "explain the facts to them."

They don't really want the facts explained to them, of course. That's already been done a million times. They just want you to take time out to personally explain the facts to them.

So do so.

Again, they ain't watchin' it, but they'll at least be aware that one candidate has done what they demand he do.

Get the people who did Ryan's videos involved. They seem to know what the hell they're doing.

Posted by: Ace at 04:37 PM



Comments

1 Oh my.

Posted by: TheLittlShiningMan at June 15, 2012 04:37 PM (PH+2B)

2
Go Generic Republican!!

Posted by: Soothsayer at June 15, 2012 04:37 PM (G/zuv)

3 And the hits keep coming... I'm dying to see his October surprise to counter his decay.

Posted by: Pipe Holder at June 15, 2012 04:39 PM (VTeUD)

4 Something must be done?

I don't know about you or Barry, but I plan on sampling the wares of one Mr. Jameson.

Posted by: pep at June 15, 2012 04:39 PM (6TB1Z)

5 This seems to confirm Larry Sabato's analysis that most independents are
down on Obama, but Romney hasn't closed the deal with them yet.


By which they mean, give me some face-saving reason why I don't have to confront the awful fact that I was a complete f****** idiot for voting for this clown in 2008. Throw me a bone, here.

Posted by: pep at June 15, 2012 04:41 PM (6TB1Z)

6 (reposted from a previous thread)

...... In Related News......

President Obama has issued another executive order all but guaranteeing a second term for the besieged president.

AP has obtained a transcript of the order that reads as follows:

"I, President Obama, hereby declare a second term for my Presidency."

The President issued no further statements and took no press-corps questions.

Posted by: fixerupper at June 15, 2012 04:42 PM (C8hzL)

7 So the preference cascade has begun?

Goooood. *Sinisterly taps finger tips together*

Posted by: MikeTheMoose Lite! 98% Anger Free! at June 15, 2012 04:42 PM (0q2P7)

8 Forget the "panic button"- I wish someone would "hit" me ! It has simply been ages.

Posted by: Eleanor's Clit at June 15, 2012 04:43 PM (c3mby)

9 Keep it pithy.

Posted by: Dr. Varno at June 15, 2012 04:44 PM (QcS9L)

10
This is why, as much as I'd love to hear a candidate say, "If you don't trust Wall Street, stop doing business with them," it'll never happen. Even people who do feel capable of looking out for themselves don't trust others to do so and for good reason.

So we're going to have to listen to some gawd-awfully paternalitstic condescension from Candidate Underpants about how we haven't had any leadership on these things that somebody should have been doing something about. Tune it out or you'll lose your lunch.

Posted by: spongeworthy at June 15, 2012 04:44 PM (r5w1L)

11 Shrinking the Feral Gummint is doing something.

Posted by: fluffy at June 15, 2012 04:44 PM (4pSIn)

12 People have to learn that it's government's job to get the fuck out of the way and let people solve their own problems, and those that truly are helpless should rely on the most minimum safety net possible as well as charities and something known as "the family."

Protecting our borders and projecting our foreign policy interests abroad. That's it. Delivering the mail was in there, but that's obsolete.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at June 15, 2012 04:45 PM (MCDCp)

13 @8



Brrrrrrrrr. "I felt a great disturbance in the Force, as if millions of voices suddenly cried out in terror"

Posted by: pep at June 15, 2012 04:45 PM (6TB1Z)

14 Barack Obama is a stuttering clusterf*ck of a miserable tyrant.

And I'm out- My wife is apparently being checked in to the emergency room right now.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) SMOD 2012 at June 15, 2012 04:45 PM (8y9MW)

15 >>For example, they credit Obama with "reining in the credit card companies."

Yeah, if the only part of your statement you ever look at is "minimum payment", you would believe that.

Posted by: HeatherRadish™ at June 15, 2012 04:45 PM (ZKzrr)

16 They're not conservatives; if they were, they wouldn't be independents.



I dunno about this. I think a lot of Independents are social conservatives.

Posted by: o/t euro 2012 - US Open at June 15, 2012 04:45 PM (HOOye)

17 8 Forget the "panic button"- I wish someone would "hit" me ! It has simply been ages.
Posted by: Eleanor's Clit at June 15, 2012 04:43 PM (c3mby)


G Spot rub! Rub spot, rub!

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at June 15, 2012 04:46 PM (MCDCp)

18 The sort of thing O'Reilly likes, "lookin' out for the folks." That's
part of why O'Reilly is popular, because he believes in things that
people who don't really know all that much believe, too.

That's a put down.

Posted by: Shirley, you jest at June 15, 2012 04:46 PM (BAnPT)

19 A rich and successful business man vs. a college level idealist who lives in rarefied air and couldn't make change for a $20.

Hmmmm.

Posted by: Clutch Cargo at June 15, 2012 04:46 PM (Qxdfp)

20 My wife, who considers here self a liberal/democrat voted for Obama in '08 despite all my pleas not to. Today she is disgusted with him. The economy is terrible and though she has a Phd in chemical engineering, she is terrified at having to look for work after her post-doc is over....and she blames Obama for this. Hopefully there are hundreds of thousands, if not millions, more people that have had this save reevaluation.

Obama is a divisive, stuttering clusterfuck of a miserable failure and even those who voted for him in the past are seeing that now.

Posted by: taylork at June 15, 2012 04:46 PM (ppNDn)

21 It's not Obama's fault he ate dog, it kinda just jumped in his mouth. Kinda like me and cheeseburgers.

Posted by: Meg McCain at June 15, 2012 04:47 PM (Q1bAG)

22 3
And the hits keep coming... I'm dying to see his October surprise to counter his decay.

He's blowing all of his potential October surprises now.

I'll be surprised if he has much left in the pipeline by the end of August.

Posted by: Brandon In Baton Rouge at June 15, 2012 04:47 PM (e0xKF)

23 I don't know about you or Barry, but I plan on sampling the wares of one Mr. Jameson.
Posted by: pep at June 15, 2012 04:39 PM (6TB1Z)
-----------------------------------------------------
I would rather sample the wares of Jenna Jamison.

I guess it always comes down to low information voters, and it is sad. They get stupider every single election cycle.

Posted by: Truck Monkey at June 15, 2012 04:47 PM (jucos)

24 Wow the Liquid Plumber "Double Impact" porno parody commercial has just aired on TV here.

Posted by: buzzion at June 15, 2012 04:47 PM (GULKT)

25 8 Forget the "panic button"- I wish someone would "hit" me !

Eleanor's frequent traveling rationale with TSA.

Posted by: Shirley, you jest at June 15, 2012 04:47 PM (BAnPT)

26 >>>That's a put down.

it is.

Posted by: ace at June 15, 2012 04:47 PM (aw5Tx)

27 those that truly are helpless should rely on the most minimum safety net
possible as well as charities and something known as "the family


And should not be allowed to VOTE. If other people are supporting you, you shouldn't get a vote on the level of that support.

Posted by: pep at June 15, 2012 04:47 PM (6TB1Z)

28 The sort of thing O'Reilly likes, "lookin' out for the folks." That's part of why O'Reilly is popular, because he believes in things that people who don't really know all that much believe, too.


amen

and, that's an understatement

Posted by: o/t euro 2012 - US Open at June 15, 2012 04:48 PM (HOOye)

29
Wait a second. I read the whole thing and the last part where it says kinda what I said only a lot better, that wasn't there before, was it?

Is this turning into a movie review?

Posted by: spongeworthy at June 15, 2012 04:48 PM (r5w1L)

30 7

You forgot: Mu-ah-ha-ha-ha[/i}

Posted by: Clutch Cargo at June 15, 2012 04:48 PM (Qxdfp)

31 I never understand calls that the "government shouldn't be involved in this" or the "government should do nothing."

It's why I always remember Reagan saying, "government should get out of the way" -- he was advocating an action, not an inaction. It was partly why Bush 41 lost to Clinton -- he said explicitly, "we don't need to do anything about this recession."

Posted by: Meiczyslaw at June 15, 2012 04:49 PM (bjRNS)

32 22 3
And the hits keep coming... I'm dying to see his October surprise to counter his decay.

He's blowing all of his potential October surprises now.

I'll be surprised if he has much left in the pipeline by the end of August.
Posted by: Brandon In Baton Rouge at June 15, 2012 04:47 PM (e0xKF)



The October surprise will be :

ELECTIONS CANCELLED.

MARTIAL LAW.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at June 15, 2012 04:50 PM (MCDCp)

33 O'Reilly is usually a great believer in all sorts of Somethings That Must Be Done.

Oil companies are making profits? We must stop the "speculators" and "tax subsidies."

On and on.

There's always a Villain, and hence always a pretext for federal government action.

Something Must Be Done actually goes against the idea of liberal capitalism completely, but it's the environment we live in, and will always live in. Ignoring it doesn't make it go away.



Posted by: ace at June 15, 2012 04:50 PM (aw5Tx)

34 I've always thought O'reilly was a very intelligent guy.

Posted by: Jeb Bush at June 15, 2012 04:50 PM (IoNBC)

35 >>>>21 It's not Obama's fault he ate dog, it kinda just jumped in his mouth. Kinda like me and cheeseburgers.
Posted by: Meg McCain at June 15, 2012 04:47 PM (Q1bAG)

And by cheeseburgers you mean tons of penis, right?

Posted by: taylork at June 15, 2012 04:50 PM (ppNDn)

36 Just because stuff like this is instant wood doesn't mean we should be sucking each other's dicks just yet.

Posted by: W. Wolf at June 15, 2012 04:51 PM (nEUpB)

37 This is why, as much as I'd love to hear a candidate say, "If you don't
trust Wall Street, stop doing business with them," it'll never happen.


They think it's a rigged game and that money comes from political power. This is an ancient view of economics.

Posted by: AmishDude at June 15, 2012 04:51 PM (T0NGe)

38

I agree, Ace.

Romney needs to simply come out and say.....
"The President wants to bring in all these new workers. But we don't have jobs for the ones that are already here. ....We need to 'unleash the private sector' to create enough jobs...for everyone."

Posted by: wheatie at June 15, 2012 04:51 PM (M2JTb)

39 Yeah, Newt.
So right and so wrong on so many levels.

I miss him.

Posted by: Clutch Cargo at June 15, 2012 04:51 PM (Qxdfp)

40 14 best wishes to your wife, AllenG

Posted by: Shirley, you jest at June 15, 2012 04:51 PM (BAnPT)

41
Looks to me like high-propensity low-infoindieswho backed Obama in 2008 are more than willing to consider Romney this year but arent sold yet because they dont know enough about him.
Thats an opening for Romney and a red flag for Obamedia who have done precious little but demonize the Guv for months without letup.
Now is a good time for a saturation of all-positive optimisitc, major chord Mitt bio ads.
Define yourself as a candidate before your opponent can.
If Romney can get positive bio nuggets into peoples minds,it willkill or at least seriouslyhurtthe"vampire in creepy underwear coming to steal your lady parts and give them to halliburton" storyline Obamedia is 100% certain to continue all the way to November.

Posted by: MikeD at June 15, 2012 04:51 PM (p8QOg)

42 The October surprise will be :

ELECTIONS CANCELLED.

MARTIAL LAW.

He can try that one but it won't work.

If Lincoln didn't cancel elections in 1864, then his scrawny ass wouldn't get away with canceling them in 2012.

Posted by: Brandon In Baton Rouge at June 15, 2012 04:51 PM (e0xKF)

43 Obama is a divisive, stuttering clusterf*** of a miserable failure and
even those who voted for him in the past are seeing that now.


They've seen it for awhile now, but the need to preserve the ego is strong in humans. We have to give them absolution. Hence, "you were lied to by a very clever con man".

Posted by: pep at June 15, 2012 04:51 PM (6TB1Z)

44 [banning --- ace.]

Posted by: Dr. Evil at June 15, 2012 04:52 PM (smOGA)

45 OK, forget all this political shit. Let's talk food. It's past wine-thirty where I live and I'm hungry. Marching round all day horsing that DR field and brush mower did it to me.

Fresh pizza vending machines coming your way soon.

http://tinyurl.com/clparah

Posted by: TheLittlShiningMan at June 15, 2012 04:52 PM (PH+2B)

46 gawd, that's kind of astute. o.o

i never really think about the power of active, positive messaging. in general i tend toward modern cynicism, so i reduce positive messaging to its underlying agenda (real or, admittedly, imagined :p) straightaway.

that being said, there's a good reason all of those stupid "You Already Are A Millionaire, You Just Have To Get There" books sell so goddamn well, after all!

you're right: the difference between "govt needs to back off", which is a NEGATIVE-frame solution, and "govt needs to be proactive in reducing regulations and freeing up the p-sec", which is a more positive reframing of the exact same political prescription, probably does WONDERS for the message's palatibility.

it's a CRISIS, for god's sake...we can't just sit around and not DO anything!

never waste a crisis. :/

Posted by: jimi ray at June 15, 2012 04:52 PM (FcOR4)

47

HOPE HAS TURNED TO DESPERATION

or, alternatively

ABANDON ALL HOPE, YE WHO ENTER HERE

either one works, really.

Posted by: imp at June 15, 2012 04:52 PM (UaxA0)

48 >> They get stupider every single election cycle.

Naw.

Remember, FDR got re-elected twice, despite repeatedly doubling down on stupidities that would make Obama look like a sensible centrist. We're still struggling to undo all that damage.

Posted by: sandy burger at June 15, 2012 04:52 PM (6ClcK)

49 >>Something Must Be Done.

I suppose neutering the EPA doesn't count as "something" in their minds, either.

Posted by: HeatherRadish™ at June 15, 2012 04:52 PM (ZKzrr)

50 38

I think that's what's gonna happen. They're almost done with the new commercial. Talking points should be synched up by tomorrow am.

Posted by: Clutch Cargo at June 15, 2012 04:52 PM (Qxdfp)

51 So your saying we need a "fluffy warm fuzzy" for the VP to seal the deal with the independents?

Excuse me while I go yack!

Posted by: Paladin at June 15, 2012 04:52 PM (hxLER)

52 Posted by: taylork at June 15, 2012 04:50 PM (ppNDn)

Who am I to criticize Meggie-poo if she likes sex?

Criticizing her for being a good 30 pounds overweight makes much more sense, but the real fun comes when she opens her mouth for something other than dick.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo (NJConservative) at June 15, 2012 04:52 PM (nEUpB)

53 O'Reilly is an idiot carnival barker. He really IS Ted Baxter.

Posted by: Truck Monkey at June 15, 2012 04:53 PM (jucos)

54
Screwyou independents, Holder and I are going for the illegal vote.

Posted by: Obama at June 15, 2012 04:53 PM (O7ksG)

55 >>>>Something Must Be Done actually goes against the idea of liberal capitalism completely, but it's the environment we live in, and will always live in. Ignoring it doesn't make it go away.


Yeah, it's too bad that none of things that must be done are 'go away and stay out of it.' You'd think that since we always do something, doing nothing and letting things sort themselves out would actually count as something.

Posted by: taylork at June 15, 2012 04:53 PM (ppNDn)

56 Jesus fucking Christ. Why do we continue to have to put up with retards after last weekend.

Posted by: buzzion at June 15, 2012 04:53 PM (GULKT)

57 Posted by: HeatherRadish™ at June 15, 2012 04:52 PM (ZKzrr)

I hope that in HeatherRadish World, "neuter" is a euphemism for bombing it into the stone age.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo (NJConservative) at June 15, 2012 04:54 PM (nEUpB)

58 Oh, and how do you smarties get a linky in your name? Mister Addam wants to know.

Posted by: TheLittlShiningMan at June 15, 2012 04:54 PM (PH+2B)

59


This seems to confirm Larry Sabato's analysis that most independents
are down on Obama, but Romney hasn't closed the deal with them yet. On
the plus side, they seem to know almost nothing of Romney, apart from
the fact that he's rich, and also that he was successful in business,
and also he made a lot of money...... Which makes this a critical period for Romney. Such people know
precious little about him, and seem receptive to him (in as much as they
have doubts about Obama), but they're not there yet.


--------------------


This is the point that Scott Walker was making when talking about Romney earlier this week.


In many ways, this election is similar to a recall election. It really is not so much about the opposing candidate as it is a referendum on the incumbent. As the Democrats learned in Wisconsin, it is not enough simply to have a recall election - you must run an appealing alternative. You must sell the opponent. Barrett never sold. His campaign consisted primarily of "I'm not Scott Walker." It wasn't enough.



Walker told Romney to work on his message, make it about reform, and run a clear principled alternative so that people were not just turning from Obama, but were turning TO Romney. He has to sell it. People are shopping and he has to make his product attractive to the buyer. It in not enough just to be "not Obama".

Posted by: mama winger at June 15, 2012 04:54 PM (P6QsQ)

60 All new Barky Snacks! They are 100% dog and they come in two sizes, Yard dog size and Show dog size.

If they are good enough for obumbles they are good enough for you.

Posted by: Barky Snacks at June 15, 2012 04:54 PM (Q1bAG)

61 I have some experience in this area. Don't just do something, stand there.

Posted by: The chicken at June 15, 2012 04:55 PM (ccXZP)

62 >>And by cheeseburgers you mean tons of penis, right?

By cheeseburgers, she means cheeseburgers.

With a cheesecake chaser.


Damn, now I'm hungry.

Posted by: HeatherRadish™ at June 15, 2012 04:55 PM (ZKzrr)

63
>>>>Who am I to criticize Meggie-poo if she likes sex?
Criticizing her for being a good 30 pounds overweight makes much more sense, but the real fun comes when she opens her mouth for something other than dick.

When it's the various liberal MSNBC reporters she's getting money-shotted in the mouth by, all while pretending to be conservative, it's worth criticizing.

Besides, I have no problems with 15 lbs of extra fun baggage.

Posted by: taylork at June 15, 2012 04:55 PM (ppNDn)

64 The difference we're quibbling about, in some of these ideological
disputes, is whether we're going to employ an active verb or a passive
verb in describing policy.
---
So we should defenestrate the zombie banks, rather than withhold the next bailout and let nature take its course.

Posted by: Methos at June 15, 2012 04:55 PM (6LvlL)

65 I summarize my economic plan thusly: FUCKING. MOON. BASE.
Something has been done. Bitches.

Posted by: Newt! at June 15, 2012 04:55 PM (t06LC)

66 3
And the hits keep coming... I'm dying to see his October surprise to counter his decay.


I assume he's going to appoint a horse to replace Eric Holder then sell the Senators wives into prostitution to fight the deficit. Hope and Change via 40AD

Posted by: Sean at June 15, 2012 04:56 PM (1jv9o)

67 >>I hope that in HeatherRadish World, "neuter" is a euphemism for bombing it into the stone age.

I was trying to be kinder and gentler.

Posted by: HeatherRadish™ at June 15, 2012 04:56 PM (ZKzrr)

68 Can Obama recover from a disastrous performance and nail it on election day?

Can Dewey Cox sing "That's Amore"?

www.youtube.com/watch?v=dZmNTaF_N-E

Posted by: You Have Shaken My Faith In The Jewish People at June 15, 2012 04:56 PM (AzwZn)

69 Romney is talking about reform to those who want to listen. Claiming he isn't is just intellectual laziness. He has a detailed economic plan, go read it. Walker didn't run on breaking the union by the way, he just did it and rightly so. His original campaign was not super specific.

Posted by: Ken Royall at June 15, 2012 04:57 PM (9zzk+)

70 One thing that contributes greatly to the dumbing down of American politics is that we are so focused on the President.

The President is the most powerful individual, but Congress is (supposed to be) way more powerful than the Presidency. If we credit or blame the government for the economy, it ought to be Congress, not the Presidency.

By focusing on the President so much instead of Congress, we distort cause and effect and draw entirely wrong conclusions. Also, we misunderstand liberty, and imagine America as another quasi-dictatorship. It's sad and stupid.

Posted by: sandy burger at June 15, 2012 04:57 PM (6ClcK)

71 58Oh, and how do you smarties get a linky in your name? Mister Addam wants to know.
Posted by: TheLittlShiningMan at June 15, 2012 04:54 PM (PH+2B) ------------ Put the link in the empty box that has..."URL:"....above it....which is right above the comment box where you type your comment.

Posted by: wheatie at June 15, 2012 04:57 PM (M2JTb)

72 44 Posted by: Dr. Evil at June 15, 2012 04:52 PM (smOGA)


HEY.
DID YOU NOT GET THE MEMO?
KNOCK IT OFF WITH THAT.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at June 15, 2012 04:58 PM (MCDCp)

73 63

Besides, I have no problems with 15 lbs of extra fun baggage.


Depends on where the extra 15 lbs are distributed.

Posted by: Sean at June 15, 2012 04:58 PM (1jv9o)

74 66 I assume he's going to appoint a horse to replace Eric Holder then sell the Senators wives into prostitution to fight the deficit. Hope and Change via 40AD
Posted by: Sean at June 15, 2012 04:56 PM (1jv9o)


I resemble that remark.

Posted by: Sarah Jessica Parker at June 15, 2012 04:59 PM (MCDCp)

75 Off, damned horse cock, er, sock.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at June 15, 2012 04:59 PM (MCDCp)

76 October surprise: Free pharmaceutical grade coke for everyone!

Posted by: Clutch Cargo at June 15, 2012 04:59 PM (Qxdfp)

77 @55

i think that's what ace means -- it's a matter of messaging. the prescription remains the same: "back gov't the fuck off".

by reframing the prescription in active, positive terms, we will be better able to sell our ideas to the ideologically ignorant voter that KNOWS there is a crisis and wants SOMETHING, in the active sense, to be done.

e.g., "unleashing the p-sec" (tho i think "unleash" is a bit awkward here, because it plays intosemantic connections with monsters and will undoubtedly be sound-bite-looped if the economy happens to go foul under a president romney to SPECTACULAR effect), which is a proactive solution that is equivalent to backing gov't off (or "doing less").

Posted by: jimi ray at June 15, 2012 04:59 PM (FcOR4)

78

Ace....

Cleanup on #44.

Posted by: wheatie at June 15, 2012 05:00 PM (M2JTb)

79 @70
Your're right. But as a practical problem its way more easier to focus our attention on one person than 535 squabbling assholes who each do a pretty good job of shrinking thier own prominence.

Posted by: Jollyroger at June 15, 2012 05:00 PM (t06LC)

80 44
fuckin asshole

Posted by: roman maroni at June 15, 2012 05:00 PM (KCCgc)

81 42 The October surprise will be :

ELECTIONS CANCELLED.

MARTIAL LAW.

He can try that one but it won't work.

If Lincoln didn't cancel elections in 1864, then his scrawny ass wouldn't get away with canceling them in 2012.
Posted by: Brandon In Baton Rouge at June 15, 2012 04:51 PM (e0xKF)


I agree. And he may just try it because he has gotten away with murder (literally if you consider F&F) for nearly 4 years now.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at June 15, 2012 05:01 PM (MCDCp)

82

41
Looks to me like high-propensity low-infoindieswho backed Obama in 2008 are more than willing to consider Romney this
=========

I think more folks on the fence will NOT vote vs vote for Romney. That is why we still need a HUGE freight train turn out.

Posted by: US Open at June 15, 2012 05:01 PM (HOOye)

83 Don't tell me you'll overheat the engine and the transmission, the car is stuck and The Folks are hurting!

Gun the engine! Something must be done for The Folks!

Posted by: Bill O'Reilly at June 15, 2012 05:01 PM (Y+DPZ)

84 October surprise: Free pharmaceutical grade coke for everyone!


Posted by: Clutch Cargo at June 15, 2012 04:59 PM (Qxdfp)

I'm endorsing Obama

Posted by: Lisa Murkowski at June 15, 2012 05:01 PM (6LvlL)

85 >>>>Depends on where the extra 15 lbs are distributed.


Well with Megan McCain, it's not grey matter. Gravy matter, maybe.

Posted by: taylork at June 15, 2012 05:01 PM (ppNDn)

86 Can't we get through a Friday anymore?

Posted by: Clutch Cargo at June 15, 2012 05:01 PM (Qxdfp)

87 Something Must Be Done actually goes against the idea of liberal capitalism completely.
--
Same applies to "there ought to be a law" which new legislation generally ignores or discards all the other preexisting laws. Regardless, nothing is enforced except when cherry picked to victimize political targets, suing the State of Arizona, the State of New Mexico, etc.

"Best" example combining "Something Must Be Done" with "There Ought To Be a Law"? Patriot Act DHS insulated authoritarianism gone mad, above the Constitution. It's so much easier, after all, to avoid the inconveniences of upholding and abiding by constitutional rule of law and all. Just shut up and bend over.

Posted by: Shirley, you jest at June 15, 2012 05:01 PM (BAnPT)

88 I am a firm believer that when it comes to government, we need far more Don't Just Do Something, Stand There!

Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD 2012 at June 15, 2012 05:02 PM (VtjlW)

89 @69
Politics is not a debating club. You don't win by appealing to judges who are paying attention and have a few synapses to rub together. Of course he has a plan. Mitt Romney doesn't take a dump without a plan.

His task now is to wrap it up in a pretty package, and repeat the spiel as often as the Shamwow guy so that the low info voters will move, zombie-like, to the voting booth.

Damn, does this rant make me an elitist?

Posted by: pep at June 15, 2012 05:02 PM (6TB1Z)

90 "One of the most frustrating thing about the politically unaware is their unchanging belief that Something must be done!"





The greatest failure of the American education system is that it does not teach an appreciation and love of liberty. In other words. it's not teaching that the best thing for the government to do, much of the time, is nothing.

Posted by: irright at June 15, 2012 05:02 PM (RzLbD)

91 So, I've noticed we've had no DOOM postings for a while.

Maybe we can have CHOOM instead.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at June 15, 2012 05:02 PM (MCDCp)

92 He's saying he's going to do Something. Something must be done, and that something is "unleashing the private sector."

Nicely put, Ace, and I'm not just sucking up.

Posted by: toby928 at June 15, 2012 05:03 PM (QupBk)

93 On the plus side, they seem to know almost nothing of Romney, apart from the fact that he's rich, and also that he was successful in business, and also he made a lot of money.

That's pretty much all they need to know - in their eyes, he's a "winner". They liked Obama four years ago because he had WIN written all over him: He was cool, he was young, and he had a mighty fine pants crease. Unfortunately he hasn't delivered on his promise to be post-partisan and post-racial, that strips him of his "winner" status.

Plus indies don't like Obamacare too much.

Posted by: kallisto at June 15, 2012 05:03 PM (jm/9g)

94 81
42 The October surprise will be :



ELECTIONS CANCELLED.



MARTIAL LAW.


No way. He'll lose and then pretend that there are all sorts of instances of voter suppression and then declare he will step aside for the good of the country and dedicate himself to voting "reform" or some such shit. So he'll lose AND erode respect for the voting process AND come out looking like a hero to the MSM.

Posted by: Sean at June 15, 2012 05:03 PM (1jv9o)

95 Romney is talking about reform to those who want to listen. Claiming he isn't is just intellectual laziness.

-------

I didn't make that claim. I said that Walker told him to make sure his message contained the idea of reform. It's in an opinion piece he wrote earlier this week. I don't have it on hand. You can google it if you like. I am repeating Walker's statements on the matter. If you want to make
the argument that Walker is intellectually lazy, be my guest.

My own opinion is that Romney has to package and deliver that message to the marketplace where it is easily accessible to independents and low-information voters.

Posted by: mama winger at June 15, 2012 05:03 PM (P6QsQ)

96 added another update.

Posted by: ace at June 15, 2012 05:03 PM (aw5Tx)

97 Ace said: "This seems to confirm Larry Sabato's analysis that most independents are
down on Obama, but Romney hasn't closed the deal with them yet."


With all respect to Larry, duh!

It's June. Nobody knows who Romney is nationally. The spending there has been, mostly in the primary and from the PACs has been entirely negative. The little positive and narrative stuff from my understand is very targeted and geographically confined to mostly in a few exurb/suburban markets in swing states, so the large sample national trackers and focus groups miss much of this -- but Romney's been the teflon man so far.

OTOH, if the independents are that turned off, they're most likely to either vote against Obama if the challenger is acceptable (passes their internal benchmark) or stay home if not. Either way, good news for us.

Posted by: Uriah Heep at June 15, 2012 05:03 PM (JdSQO)

98 Posted by: taylork at June 15, 2012 04:55 PM (ppNDn)

Don't get me wrong....a few good drinks at the bar, a quick stop at the adult toy store for a ball-gag and I could have some fun with Ms. McCain. But she should lose a few pounds if she wants to be taken seriously as a political commentator on TV. And get the lobotomy repaired.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo (NJConservative) at June 15, 2012 05:03 PM (nEUpB)

99 The nation is in the mood to fire some people, they're just not completely sure who.

Posted by: toby928 at June 15, 2012 05:03 PM (QupBk)

100 Yeah, I could use a Choom while I drink my Slurpee looking at these guys in the car in the ditch.

Posted by: Clutch Cargo at June 15, 2012 05:03 PM (Qxdfp)

101 88 I am a firm believer that when it comes to government, we need far more Don't Just Do Something, Stand There!
Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD 2012 at June 15, 2012 05:02 PM (VtjlW)


Advice to me from my acting coach. Also, "know your lines and don't bump into the furniture."

That last one comes from Spencer Tracy.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at June 15, 2012 05:03 PM (MCDCp)

102 72 jj

he got the memo...he did it with purpose

Posted by: phoenixgirl at June 15, 2012 05:04 PM (Ho2rs)

103 Did someone mention gravy? I can eat lots of gravy,

Posted by: Meg McCain at June 15, 2012 05:04 PM (Q1bAG)

104 I think a lot of swing voters will decide in the voting booth to vote for Romney, even if they won't admit it. There will be a gut feeling that they just can't shake that voting again for Obama is against their self-interest.

Posted by: LIGuy at June 15, 2012 05:05 PM (+usC4)

105 Michigan competitive?

No.

Rasmussen poll out today...

Obama 50
Romney 42

Posted by: Greg at June 15, 2012 05:05 PM (j+Xk7)

106 Wow: a description of a moderate squish that I can understand and use. Thanks, Ace.

Posted by: Beefy Meatball at June 15, 2012 05:05 PM (mxnUd)

107 102 72 jj

he got the memo...he did it with purpose
Posted by: phoenixgirl at June 15, 2012 05:04 PM (Ho2rs)


If his purpose was to be a horse's ass and rile up Ace (and us), mission accomplished.

Release the ban hammer.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at June 15, 2012 05:05 PM (MCDCp)

108 If it weren't for these idiot independents who don't have a clue, conservatives would have a clear majority over the moonbats.

I wonder if there is a way to disfranchise the independents. For the good of the country, of course.

Posted by: Arms Merchant at June 15, 2012 05:05 PM (+XVQe)

109 OT for a moment but did anyone else here just witness the appalling, cringe-inducing sucking-of-cock on Cavuto?

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at June 15, 2012 05:06 PM (piMMO)

110 I broke the unwritten rule about not reading the posts.

That Luntz stuff is interesting.

Of course a shorter version of it could be: "Independents are assholes."


Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo (NJConservative) at June 15, 2012 05:06 PM (nEUpB)

111 I am a firm believer that when it comes to government, we need far more Don't Just Do Something, Stand There!

Posted by: alexthechick
--

John Stossel advises the ignorant to NOT vote.

Posted by: Shirley, you jest at June 15, 2012 05:06 PM (BAnPT)

112 I've been remiss in noting that Average Joe sucks cock by choice lately.

Posted by: toby928 at June 15, 2012 05:06 PM (QupBk)

113 That said, they still insist that Something Must Be Done and you contradict them at your very great peril.
---
I want to face the peril

Posted by: Sir Galahad, purity republican at June 15, 2012 05:06 PM (6LvlL)

114 Don't forget the gravy

http://youtu.be/BmtEI9NWuz0?t=6m13s

Posted by: Clutch Cargo at June 15, 2012 05:06 PM (Qxdfp)

115 Hey Greg.

I missed you the day after the Wisconsin recall election. You promised that you would show up the following day. To gloat, I think is what you said.

Posted by: mama winger at June 15, 2012 05:07 PM (P6QsQ)

116 ace can you fix the typo in the last sentence of second paragraph, the->they

Posted by: village idiot at June 15, 2012 05:07 PM (utXSy)

117 John Stossel advises the ignorant to NOT vote.

The problem is: the ignorant aren't self-aware.

Posted by: Meiczyslaw at June 15, 2012 05:07 PM (bjRNS)

118 105 Posted by: Greg at June 15, 2012 05:05 PM (j+Xk7)


Hey! Shit-for-brains is back! Freshly minted from the Baghdad Bob/Lord Haw-Haw School of Cloaca Voice Projection

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at June 15, 2012 05:07 PM (MCDCp)

119

yep gerg, that's right.

What else is right?



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50% Trust Romney More Than Obama To Handle Economy

Wisconsin: Romney
47%, Obama 44%


Posted by: imp at June 15, 2012 05:07 PM (UaxA0)

120 Shorter Luntz:

Independents lie to themselves.


see:Althouse

Posted by: Ancient Chinese Secret at June 15, 2012 05:08 PM (r2PLg)

121


Oh, damn it.


Posted by: imp at June 15, 2012 05:08 PM (UaxA0)

122 Posted by: Greg at June 15, 2012 05:05 PM (j+Xk7)

Hey Greg you useless person of cocksucking. How did that GOTV effort that the democrats have that clearly was superior to the Republicans work out?


499 Looks like the Dem GOTV...actually getting out the vote and taking people to the polls...is far more effective than making phone calls, which Preibus was championing on Belling's show.
Posted by: Greg at June 05, 2012 09:18 PM (j+Xk7)

Posted by: buzzion at June 15, 2012 05:08 PM (GULKT)

123 I was too busy consoling my union comrades with blowjobs.

Posted by: Greg! at June 15, 2012 05:08 PM (ggRof)

124 Microsoft Word is a curse upon mankind.

Posted by: toby928 at June 15, 2012 05:08 PM (QupBk)

125 109 OT for a moment but did anyone else here just witness the appalling, cringe-inducing sucking-of-cock on Cavuto?

Huh? What? Wasn't watching. Worth going and rewinding DVR?

Posted by: Clutch Cargo at June 15, 2012 05:08 PM (Qxdfp)

126 119
Formatting?

Posted by: Sean at June 15, 2012 05:08 PM (1jv9o)

127 imp still has not learned all the ways of the blog....

Posted by: Ancient Chinese Secret at June 15, 2012 05:09 PM (r2PLg)

128 go sit in the corner, imp.



Posted by: mama winger at June 15, 2012 05:09 PM (P6QsQ)

129 But she should lose a few pounds if she wants to be taken seriously as a
political commentator on TV. And get the lobotomy repaired.


I know, right? One can make quite a killing on the dinner circuit with the right connections, the right weight, and the right angle between the left leg and the right.

Posted by: Sally Quinn at June 15, 2012 05:09 PM (6TB1Z)

130 117 John Stossel advises the ignorant to NOT vote.

The problem is: the ignorant aren't self-aware.
Posted by: Meiczyslaw at June 15, 2012 05:07 PM (burns)

Dunning-Kruger Effect in operation.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at June 15, 2012 05:09 PM (MCDCp)

131 and the right angle between the left leg and the right.

Obtuse?

Posted by: toby928 at June 15, 2012 05:10 PM (QupBk)

132 109 OT for a moment but did anyone else here just witness the appalling, cringe-inducing sucking-of-cock on Cavuto?



*************

When Sweden was "scoring"?

Posted by: Ancient Chinese Secret at June 15, 2012 05:10 PM (r2PLg)

133 .....and it's gone!

Posted by: phoenixgirl at June 15, 2012 05:10 PM (Ho2rs)

134 "Something must be done, why are you not getting this?"

Haha, exactly. Do what - ? "that's YOUR job to know!11!" *whine pout snivel*

Posted by: jeanne at June 15, 2012 05:10 PM (GdalM)

135 Asked which candidate these voters would like to attend a baseball game with...giving Obama a substantial edge in likability.

Who wants to spend three hours explaining the rules? These 'independents' are an odd group.

Posted by: t-bird at June 15, 2012 05:10 PM (FcR7P)

136 Something must be done!

---------
Yes. I'd long ago lost sight of this. People are too conditioned, even if they agree that government is the problem, that ...something must be done. Very good point, Ace.

Posted by: 98ZJUSMC at June 15, 2012 05:10 PM (0F8MT)

137 109 OT for a moment but did anyone else here just witness the appalling, cringe-inducing sucking-of-cock on Cavuto?
Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at June 15, 2012 05:06 PM (piMMO)


No. Need more info.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at June 15, 2012 05:11 PM (MCDCp)

138 Greg you may buy me some gravy, and later I might let you gaze at my fat ankles and knees.

Posted by: Meg McCain at June 15, 2012 05:11 PM (Q1bAG)

139 Something must be done.

I'm thinking a 7-iron will get Obama out of the trap, and at least half the distance to the green. Unless he shanks it.

He'll probably shank it.

Posted by: Fritz at June 15, 2012 05:11 PM (ZN5qR)

140

Greg Gutfeld.....just now on The Five....

"Questions in the Rose Garden....Thorny subject....not allowed"

Heh.

Posted by: wheatie at June 15, 2012 05:11 PM (M2JTb)

141 Did someone mention gravy?
----------------------------------

Did someone say GRAVY FUNNEL!?

Posted by: Maggie "Deep Throat" McCain at June 15, 2012 05:11 PM (AzwZn)

142

Dear AOSHQ forum,

I've seen that happen a dozen times, never though it would happen to me.




127
imp still has not learned all the ways of the blog....


I have, I have. I just couldn't paste those numbers another way.




Posted by: imp at June 15, 2012 05:11 PM (UaxA0)

143 Posted by: Sally Quinn at June 15, 2012 05:09 PM (6TB1Z)

That might be a fascinating debate.

Sally Quinn: articulate fool.
Meg McCain: inarticulate fool with nice tits.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo (NJConservative) at June 15, 2012 05:11 PM (nEUpB)

144 108 Independents include Michael Savage. Hard headed egotist, but neither stupid nor an idiot.

...If you're going to bash pundits for switching candidate support between the pool of Republicans campaigning, don't omit Stacy McCain. And though most certainly not an Independent, Mark Levin campaigned strongly AGAINST Mitt Romney's potus bid, making this week's rumor that Mitt considered naming Levin his VP another joke.

Posted by: Shirley, you jest at June 15, 2012 05:12 PM (BAnPT)

145 Huh? What? Wasn't watching. Worth going and rewinding DVR?


****

I can't even describe it and every time I thought it couldn't get worse, it did.

Yes. You should watch it. It's at the end of his show.

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at June 15, 2012 05:12 PM (piMMO)

146 Ya know....Luntz is overrated. Really. I wish they'd *do something* like, cancel his consulting contract, or whatever it is he has going with the RNC.

Posted by: jeanne at June 15, 2012 05:12 PM (GdalM)

147 Posted by: imp at June 15, 2012 05:11 PM (UaxA0)

If your comment box has an icon list above it you can click on the <> and edit the HTML.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo (NJConservative) at June 15, 2012 05:12 PM (nEUpB)

148 Sally Quinn: articulate fool.
Meg McCain: inarticulate fool with nice tits.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo (NJConservative) at June 15, 2012 05:11 PM (nEUpB)
-----------------------------------------------------
Nah. Mac'n Cheese loses weight and you will see it coming off the fun bags first.

Posted by: Truck Monkey at June 15, 2012 05:13 PM (jucos)

149 @143
I think that debate is long settled. Susan Sarandon, for example.

Posted by: pep at June 15, 2012 05:13 PM (6TB1Z)

150 Greg said: Michigan competitive?


No.



Joke post? Obama won Michigan by 16.5%.

Do you know what an 8% national swing would do to Obama?

276-262 Romney, flipping NC, IN, VA, NH, IA, OH... That's a conservative estimate too.

And while I like Rasmussen's polling, there are three samplings two of which are right on top of each other and Scott's is the outlier....

Posted by: Uriah Heep at June 15, 2012 05:13 PM (JdSQO)

151 The sad thing is that a lot of these numbnuts go to the polls and make their decision sometime while standing in line to vote.

Shit. I need a bumper sticker. What should it be? I think there is a lot to say to try to convince these asshole independents. Something like a Burma Shave sign string. Sort of like how Ace does on Twitter. I've a big bumper. One on the left, sequeing into the middle, then one on the right. Read all three to get the story.

Something must be done!

Obama can't do it!

Romney 2012? He can!

Posted by: TheLittlShiningMan at June 15, 2012 05:13 PM (PH+2B)

152 Posted by: toby928 at June 15, 2012 05:10 PM (QupBk)

Nice!

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo (NJConservative) at June 15, 2012 05:13 PM (nEUpB)

153 A great many things must be UN-done.

Posted by: Bob Saget at June 15, 2012 05:13 PM (SDkq3)

154


ha ha CBD, ha ha.


Posted by: imp at June 15, 2012 05:14 PM (UaxA0)

155 Meghan McCain = Sally Struthers without the relevancy.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at June 15, 2012 05:14 PM (MCDCp)

156

Something must be done........to correct all the 'Somethings' that have been done before by the dumbasses who thought....Something must be done.

Posted by: wheatie at June 15, 2012 05:14 PM (M2JTb)

157 Something must be done.

I'm thinking a 7-iron will get Obama out of the trap, and at least half the distance to the green.


I'm thinking Secret Service foot-wedges lead to, "Oh, look! I actually made the fairway..."

Posted by: t-bird at June 15, 2012 05:14 PM (FcR7P)

158 Does anyone know how to rewind DVD's

Posted by: Meg McCain at June 15, 2012 05:14 PM (Q1bAG)

159 Did someone say GRAVY FUNNEL!?

What about a funnel?

Posted by: 1LT Gill at June 15, 2012 05:15 PM (sy0Uv)

160 121 Oh, damn it.


Posted by: imp

Don't cut/paste directly.

Posted by: Shirley, you jest at June 15, 2012 05:15 PM (BAnPT)

161 John Stossel advises the ignorant to NOT vote.
--------------------------------------------

The IGNORANT vote for 3 reasons:

TRIBALISM

IDEALISM

FREEBIES

Posted by: Maggie at June 15, 2012 05:15 PM (AzwZn)

162

I already feel retarded for even engaging Gerg. Even worse is I shanked it into formatting hell.

Posted by: imp at June 15, 2012 05:15 PM (UaxA0)

163
153 A great many things must be UN-done.
Posted by: Bob Saget at June 15, 2012 05:13 PM (SDkq3


Yeah. You just need to make the undoing sound like "something is being done"

Posted by: buzzion at June 15, 2012 05:16 PM (GULKT)

164 >>>A great many things must be UN-done.

Let's leave the UN out of this.

Posted by: Dr. Varno at June 15, 2012 05:16 PM (QcS9L)

165 156

Something must be done........to correct all the 'Somethings' that have been done before by the dumbasses who thought....Something must be done.
Posted by: wheatie at June 15, 2012 05:14 PM (M2JTb)

THIS

Brevity-is-the-soul-of-wit thread winner.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at June 15, 2012 05:16 PM (MCDCp)

166 Hey, Imp, when ya gonna upgrade from Internet Explorer 4?

A True Conservative!

Posted by: Arms Merchant at June 15, 2012 05:16 PM (+XVQe)

167 I'll be surprised if he has much left in the pipeline by the end of August.
Posted by: Brandon In Baton Rouge at June 15, 2012 04:47 PM (e0xKF)
----------
Oh, *cough* *cough*....you just wait! I'm gettin' the gang back together.

*cough* Man this stuff's kinda harsh....

Steamrollerz for Industry and Jobs! ....and shit..*cough*

Goddamn, I crack myself up, yo.

Posted by: King Choom the First at June 15, 2012 05:17 PM (0F8MT)

168 Every single item in the "security blanket" is simultaneously not-Conservative-in-conception and not-Conservative-in-implementation.

Every single item -can- be implemented in a -far- more Conservative fashion.

Actually managing to eliminate any aspect of the actual security blanket will -always- come back to Something Must Be Done. And it will be on a liberal's watch. And it will be fixed by some stupid redistributive Ponzi scheme.

The retirement aspect of Social Security (to pick a random thing), designed by a actual conservative-type who was told there has to be something, just make it fiscally -sane-, wouldn't look like what we've got in the slightest.

And would, IMNSHO, be even -more- difficult to dislodge than the current insanity. Mostly because all the money "in" the system would already -be- the recipients legally, morally, and ethically. Whereas the current system has already shown that it isn't "your money" in the retirement account.

Posted by: Al at June 15, 2012 05:17 PM (aOAEM)

169 >> The sad thing is that a lot of these numbnuts go to the polls and make their decision sometime while standing in line to vote.

Or in the pool booth itself.

A lot of them feel that they have to vote on every item, whether they're informed or not. They don't know that it's sometimes a good thing to leave some answers blank.

They'll be standing in the voting booth, and they come to a choice that they hadn't even heard about and have no information about, like, I don't know, who should be superintendent of the local school district or something. Rather than leaving it blank, which is what I'd do, they just pick an answer quasi-randomly.

Posted by: sandy burger at June 15, 2012 05:17 PM (6ClcK)

170 These 'in the middle" idiots also don't want to have to defend their choice for months on end. They get to be courted by everyone else who's made up their mind already. Everyone's nice to you while they're courting you.

A bunch of retards who want to be more special than they really deserve.

Posted by: Dang at June 15, 2012 05:17 PM (Ky1+e)

171 @165 Disagree. @163 tops it.

Posted by: pep at June 15, 2012 05:18 PM (6TB1Z)

172 Posted by: imp at June 15, 2012 05:14 PM (UaxA0)

I really wasn't trying to be funny or make fun of you. Depending on your browser you should be able to edit out all of the formatting stuff and leave the raw data.

Just trying to help.

Now go home and get your fucking shinebox (now I am making fun of you).

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo (NJConservative) at June 15, 2012 05:18 PM (nEUpB)

173 These focus groups always frustrate me. Scare the hell out of me, actually. When Luntz is on I usually flip the channel, and it's not exactly that I don't like him. More that he chose this as his profession.

Posted by: Dave S. at June 15, 2012 05:18 PM (B2fm1)

174
The preference cascade has begun.

Posted by: Jones in CO at June 15, 2012 05:18 PM (8sCoq)

175
TUVM, J.J.Sefton.

Posted by: wheatie at June 15, 2012 05:18 PM (M2JTb)

176 Undoing is doing without the do.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at June 15, 2012 05:18 PM (MCDCp)

177 @jtLOL (Jim Treacher) Neil Munro should've known better than to talk to @BarackObama without paying the $40,000 fee.

Posted by: Retread at June 15, 2012 05:19 PM (I2fq9)

178
Suggestion for Romney: Do a series of three one-hour videos explaining basic economics, and your plan. Release it with much fanfare. Make sure it's pretty difficult to contradict.
''''
And use "The Most Interesting Man In The World" as the presenter.
'''
Stay thirsty, morons.

Posted by: Meremortal at June 15, 2012 05:19 PM (jTKU5)

179 Suggestion for Romney: Do a series of three one-hour videos explaining basic economics, and your plan. Release it with much fanfare. Make sure it's pretty difficult to contradict.

******


Gawd,


NO.


Less is more.


Target rich environment.

Why you think Dems still have no budget?

Axelrod knows the ways of the stealth.

Posted by: Ancient Chinese Secret at June 15, 2012 05:19 PM (r2PLg)

180 >>>A bunch of retards who want to be more special than they really deserve.

I've heard that explanation, and it might partially be it, but I think it's more obvious: They actually DON'T have the facts, and are unwilling to do much to get them, and are a bit embarrassed by this (as they probably should be) so do no like expressing a preference.

They know they haven't done their homework, and are therefore reluctant to provide an answer.

Posted by: ace at June 15, 2012 05:19 PM (aw5Tx)

181 A lot of them feel that they have to vote on every item, whether they're
informed or not. They don't know that it's sometimes a good thing to
leave some answers blank.


It's how people buy toilet paper or any other item. It's why Mr. Whipple was so successful. People hated him, but when it came time to pull something off the shelf, his is the product they remembered. That's all modern politics boils down to. Toilet paper.


Posted by: pep at June 15, 2012 05:20 PM (6TB1Z)

182 @jtLOL (Jim Treacher) Neil Munro should've known better than to talk to @BarackObama without paying the $40,000 fee.

If he shows up here later, we should tell him directly.

Posted by: BackwardsBoy, feeling all extra curmudgeony today at June 15, 2012 05:20 PM (d0Tfm)

183

Baby Eagle finishing off the last of the Squirrel carcass.

[linky to watch it live...in my sig]

Posted by: wheatie at June 15, 2012 05:21 PM (M2JTb)

184 The IGNORANT vote for 3 reasons:



TRIBALISM



IDEALISM



FREEBIES


***

Have I got a video for you!

http://bit.ly/llRyp

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at June 15, 2012 05:21 PM (piMMO)

185 Does anyone know how to rewind DVD's

Posted by: Meg McCain


I wish I knew. I have some BVDs all wrapped around my wiener. Not sure how that happened. Or who's they are. Oh, wait, you said DVDs. Are they all male?

Posted by: Bawney Fwank at June 15, 2012 05:21 PM (Ky1+e)

186 Someone up-thread said independents aren't self aware enough to know how ignorant they are. With this I agree. The NEA has done it's job masterfully.

Posted by: Soona - banned-something must be done at June 15, 2012 05:22 PM (cQCm/)

187
21 It's not Obama's fault he ate dog, it kinda just jumped in his mouth...


True but False. Obama only chewed the dog, he didn't swallow.

Posted by: Polifact at June 15, 2012 05:22 PM (RNENT)

188 Romney:


Obama,let's talk about [your plan that didn't work....


$800 billion and what did we get?


Posted by: Ancient Chinese Secret at June 15, 2012 05:23 PM (r2PLg)

189 185 Does anyone know how to rewind DVD's

Posted by: Meg McCain


I wish I knew. I have some BVDs all wrapped around my wiener. Not sure how that happened. Or who's they are. Oh, wait, you said DVDs. Are they all male?
Posted by: Bawney Fwank at June 15, 2012 05:21 PM (Ky1+e)


Ask the lady with the recipe for ice. Oh shit, I forgot that she died 10 years ago.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at June 15, 2012 05:23 PM (MCDCp)

190

The October surprise will be :

ELECTIONS CANCELLED.

MARTIAL LAW.

****

EXTREMIST REPUBLICANS UPSET! THREATEN TO WRITE LETTER!!!

Posted by: WalrusRex at June 15, 2012 05:23 PM (jUZRg)

191 Suggestion for Romney: Do a series of three one-hour videos explaining basic economics...

Should it take more than three thirty-second spots?

Posted by: t-bird at June 15, 2012 05:24 PM (FcR7P)

192 They know they haven't done their homework, and are therefore reluctant to provide an answer.

Hence my contention that they are easily led.

Posted by: BackwardsBoy, feeling all extra curmudgeony today at June 15, 2012 05:24 PM (d0Tfm)

193 walrus

that's not the hill!!!!!!/////////

Posted by: phoenixgirl at June 15, 2012 05:25 PM (Ho2rs)

194 Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at June 15, 2012 05:21 PM (piMMO)


Play that cartoon to the Tribalism, Idealism, Freebies drones. Day and night, night and day.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at June 15, 2012 05:25 PM (MCDCp)

195 The independents will not make up their mind until they walk in the booth. I think it's a waste to try and sway them...they LOVE being fence sitters. If they don't get it by now they aren't gonna get it.
They will be like flotsam on the sea come election day swept ashore by the RED Tsunami!!!

Posted by: ABO at June 15, 2012 05:25 PM (MbeEN)

196
Suggestion for Romney: Do a series of three one-hour videos explaining basic economics, and your plan. Release it with much fanfare. Make sure it's pretty difficult to contradict.

******

Have Kim Kardashian in it and every time Romney explains something simply enough for her to understand, she takes off a piece of clothing.

Posted by: WalrusRex at June 15, 2012 05:25 PM (jUZRg)

197 192 They know they haven't done their homework, and are therefore reluctant to provide an answer.

Hence my contention that they are easily led.
Posted by: BackwardsBoy, feeling all extra curmudgeony today at June 15, 2012 05:24 PM (d0Tfm)



Well, if they're so easily led then why the hell can't our side lead them?!

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at June 15, 2012 05:25 PM (MCDCp)

198 Independents are just people flirting with voting...


most likely not to show up anyway.

Posted by: Ancient Chinese Secret at June 15, 2012 05:26 PM (r2PLg)

199 Baby Eagle finishing off the last of the Squirrel carcass.

[linky to watch it live...in my sig]

Posted by: wheatie


Nice picture! Thanks for that. Oh yeah, "SQUIRREL!"

Posted by: Dang at June 15, 2012 05:26 PM (Ky1+e)

200 >> They know they haven't done their homework, and are therefore reluctant to provide an answer.

And yet, they'd feel guilty for not doing their civic duty if they didn't get their "I Voted" sticker on election day.

It's conventional wisdom that "if you didn't vote, you have no right to complain!", even though it's basically BS.


Posted by: sandy burger at June 15, 2012 05:26 PM (6ClcK)

201 >>>Michigan competitive?


No.



Oh Gregie, I missed you on Walker kick the shit out of unions night. I was so looking forward to your company. So Obama is ahead in Michigan according to one poll? Well he can't blow that unless he does something that just pisses the average union member off.

Posted by: MikeTheMoose Lite! 98% Anger Free! at June 15, 2012 05:26 PM (0q2P7)

202 Video such a bad idea...


want to slap ace with a thousand noodle.

Posted by: Ancient Chinese Secret at June 15, 2012 05:26 PM (r2PLg)

203 145 Yes. You should watch it. It's at the end of his show.

Jeebus. I thought you meant it was a guest.

Blechhhh.

Posted by: Clutch Cargo at June 15, 2012 05:26 PM (Qxdfp)

204 Something must be done.....? Bah! Better than nothing is a very high standard.
First do no harm, and all that.

Posted by: Wilkins at June 15, 2012 05:27 PM (cgOkw)

205 195 Posted by: ABO at June 15, 2012 05:25 PM (MbeEN)


How the fuck can any voter be independent after experiencing the last 3 years. Unless they lived on another planet and have been watching all this on a video monitor.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at June 15, 2012 05:27 PM (MCDCp)

206 Posted by: ace at June 15, 2012 05:19 PM (aw5Tx)

My parents have an old friend who is extremely well educated, a successful businessman (bank president) and who votes straight Democrat every election day. He proudly says that he doesn't even look at the names.

I find that attitude to be offensive in the extreme.

Independents are the same.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo (NJConservative) at June 15, 2012 05:27 PM (nEUpB)

207 So this happened

(link below)

Posted by: laceyunderalls at June 15, 2012 05:28 PM (pLTLS)

208
192 They know they haven't done their homework, and are therefore reluctant to provide an answer. Hence my contention that they are easily led.
Posted by: BackwardsBoy, feeling all extra curmudgeony today at June 15, 2012 05:24 PM (d0Tfm)


And they will follow the guy that they think has done his homework. And cheat off of him on the test. Only to find out later that while he may have done the homework, he didn't actually understand it and had no clue what the fuck he was talking about.

Posted by: buzzion at June 15, 2012 05:28 PM (GULKT)

209 >> Well, if they're so easily led then why the hell can't our side lead them?!

My friends, I'm from the GOP and I'm here to help.

Posted by: John McCain at June 15, 2012 05:28 PM (6ClcK)

210 Solidify the base. Then work to expand that base. Independents and moderates make no sense. I mean you only want to have half liberty?

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at June 15, 2012 05:29 PM (MCDCp)

211 >>>And yet, they'd feel guilty for not doing their civic duty if they didn't get their "I Voted" sticker on election day.

I wouldn't dissuade them from voting this cycle. Even though they haven't done their homework, they are aware that the economy is in shambles.

Posted by: ace at June 15, 2012 05:29 PM (aw5Tx)

212 Posted by: J.J. Sefton at June 15, 2012 05:27 PM (MCDCp)

Walk outside and ask the first person you see who doesn't look like a tourist: "What do you think of the job that President Obama is doing?"

QED

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo (NJConservative) at June 15, 2012 05:30 PM (nEUpB)

213
Posted by: Ancient Chinese Secret
'''
Take it up with ace. He wrote it.

Posted by: Meremortal at June 15, 2012 05:30 PM (jTKU5)

214 Have Kim Kardashian in it and every time Romney explains something
simply enough for her to understand, she takes off a piece of clothing.


So you're saying that you want her to stay fully clothed?

Posted by: Hollowpoint at June 15, 2012 05:30 PM (SY2Kh)

215 205
195 Posted by: ABO at June 15, 2012 05:25 PM (MbeEN)

How the fuck can any voter be independent after experiencing the
last 3 years. Unless they lived on another planet and have been
watching all this on a video monitor.



Typical independent female voter: 2008 "Nothing gets my vag wetter than a black president."
1992: "Nothing gets my vag wetter than a serial adulter sexual predator in the white house."

Posted by: Sean at June 15, 2012 05:30 PM (1jv9o)

216 So they basically start insisting they want the candidates themselves to catch them up to speed, ignoring the fact that policies are spelled out on their campaign websites, and ignoring the fact that these positions are easily and readily discoverable, just by googling and reading.


This is why soundbites are King, now. Sad, but true.

No one is going to go look up a candidates platform, if they never have. TV has replaced that effort.

Posted by: drone media at June 15, 2012 05:30 PM (HOOye)

217 Jeebus. I thought you meant it was a guest.

Blechhhh.


****

I'm trying to think of how to describe it to those who didn't see it.

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at June 15, 2012 05:30 PM (piMMO)

218 They know they haven't done their homework, and are therefore reluctant to provide an answer.


Posted by: ace


There's also the angle that if they are undecided, they're going to be on tv. "Did you see me? Talkin' all stupid and shit?" Screws up the whole thing. One of the reasons I can't bear to watch.

Posted by: Dang at June 15, 2012 05:31 PM (Ky1+e)

219 >> How the fuck can any voter be independent after experiencing the last 3 years?

Easy. If I didn't read news I would have no idea that we had even changed presidents. In my own life I haven't felt a single direct effect. I have the same friends, same job, same house, same car, same taxes, same everything.

Posted by: Wilkins at June 15, 2012 05:31 PM (cgOkw)

220 Nice picture! Thanks for that. Oh yeah, "SQUIRREL!"

Posted by: Dang at June 15, 2012 05:26 PM (Ky1+e) --------- You're welcome. I find it....calming...to watch those Baby Eagles....tearing up things. They certainly know what to do with a Squirrel(!)...whenever Dad drops one in the nest....tear it to pieces.

Posted by: wheatie at June 15, 2012 05:31 PM (M2JTb)

221 with all due respect, Sean, they voted on the economy in both cases.

Clinton's economy was good. Bush's, as he left office, was very bad.

They just don't care about the stuff you do, and whether you find it frustrating or not, it is futile to continue being annoyed by things that aren't going to change.

Posted by: ace at June 15, 2012 05:32 PM (aw5Tx)

222 212 Posted by: J.J. Sefton at June 15, 2012 05:27 PM (MCDCp)

Walk outside and ask the first person you see who doesn't look like a tourist: "What do you think of the job that President Obama is doing?"

QED

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo (NJConservative) at June 15, 2012 05:30 PM (nEUpB)


Dude, that's unfair. You know I live in Greenwich Village!

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at June 15, 2012 05:32 PM (MCDCp)

223
Posted by: Hollowpoint at June 15, 2012 05:30 PM (SY2Kh)'/''
''''''
Good one.

Posted by: Meremortal at June 15, 2012 05:32 PM (jTKU5)

224 The IGNORANT vote for 3 reasons:



TRIBALISM



IDEALISM



FREEBIES

Posted by: Maggie at June 15, 2012 05:15 PM (AzwZn)
Here we just call it Massachusetts

Posted by: plum at June 15, 2012 05:32 PM (Z6itK)

225 207
So this happened

Lovely bunch of window-lickers over there at MSLSD.

Posted by: Brandon In Baton Rouge at June 15, 2012 05:32 PM (e0xKF)

226 219
Really? You didn't get a tax cut from Reagan and a tax increase from Bush/Clinton?

Posted by: Sean at June 15, 2012 05:32 PM (1jv9o)

227

I see now CBD, thx.



And Arms Merchant, I'm running the latest firefox with all the blocking stuff (NoScript, adblock, etc.)--makes ace's front page actually load.

My IE browser (that I don't use) is 9.0.8112 or something

No idea where IE 4 came from.

I think it's, Pixy's software. Would explain a lot . . .


Posted by: imp at June 15, 2012 05:32 PM (UaxA0)

228 How the fuck can any voter be independent after experiencing the last 3 years. Unless they lived on another planet...

Was talking with a friend who had no idea that anything happened in Wisconsin the other week. And he's on our side! That tells me something about the power of the media.

I like Romney's strategy of putting "doing just fine", etc., in his ad buys. The networks aren't going to show the news, he might as well.

Posted by: t-bird at June 15, 2012 05:32 PM (FcR7P)

229 Well, if they're so easily led then why the hell can't our side lead them?!

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at June 15, 2012 05:25 PM (MCDCp)



They're led by pop culture....they don't want to have to think too hard. They just mimic what pop culture tells them.

Posted by: Tami at June 15, 2012 05:32 PM (X6akg)

230 Ace,
Your line: "... even Eleanor Clift...."
Pure genius.

Posted by: Journolist at June 15, 2012 05:33 PM (QWOh7)

231 >> How the fuck can any voter be independent after experiencing the
last 3 years.


Because they don't follow politics. They know the economy is bad, but the ins and outs of why involve a subject they're not interested in. They want people who know this stuff to fix it. It's like their car; they don't care how it works, they just want it to not break down.

Unless they lived on another planet and have been
watching all this on a video monitor.


They haven't been "watching all this" at all. When they watch TV, it's not for political analysis, it's for entertainment.

Posted by: John McCain at June 15, 2012 05:33 PM (6ClcK)

232 Asked how each [candidate] would perform if they were lost in the forest
with nine friends, the group concluded Romney would use his super-duper
expensive phone to call for help, with Donald Trump and wife Ann Romney
topping the call list, while Obama would give a pep talk and then
retreat to the sidelines.



And then start thinking about what part of you he intends to cook and eat first - whether you're a dog or not.

Posted by: Krebs v Carnot: Epic Battle of the Cycling Stars at June 15, 2012 05:33 PM (7GfKM)

233 which is why I preferred a candidate who could and would talk about the economy, and not about a series of things this critical block simply does not give a shit about.

Posted by: ace at June 15, 2012 05:33 PM (aw5Tx)

234 212 Posted by: J.J. Sefton at June 15, 2012 05:27 PM (MCDCp)

Walk outside and ask the first person you see who doesn't look like a tourist: "What do you think of the job that President Obama is doing?"

QED

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo (NJConservative) at June 15, 2012 05:30 PM (nEUpB)

But actually, I was working at a client's office the other day and she tipped her mitt (no pun) as to her politics and (quoting now) "...can't believe that Romney is going to win!"


Posted by: J.J. Sefton at June 15, 2012 05:33 PM (MCDCp)

235 osted by: ace at June 15, 2012 05:29 PM (aw5Tx)

Maybe, but how many of these independents are familiar with basic economics and understand that government spending can crowd out private investment; that increasing government control will stifle private sector creativity....and on and on and on.

I wouldn't be surprised that in the end, these people vote based on the silliest, most inconsequential reasons.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo (NJConservative) at June 15, 2012 05:33 PM (nEUpB)

236 Do a series of three one-hour videos explaining basic economics

How about just one 30 minute video of Penn Teller doing a "Bullshit" on everything that's come out of Obama's mouth?

Posted by: Clutch Cargo at June 15, 2012 05:33 PM (Qxdfp)

237 Simply amazing that these fucktardsrely ona politician to "bring out the best in them."

Posted by: Warden at June 15, 2012 05:33 PM (TX662)

238 Here's my thinking: This cohort you're trying to convince will not watch it. They don't follow the news, and they sure as hell aren't going to watch a three hour video on basic economic policy.

But they will hear you did this, and this might help satisfy their insistence that you "explain the facts to them."


This is good, but it is also where the "soundbites" come in that I alluded to upthread a bit. One hour videos for those that will listen and learn - you might suck a few in if you market it right; and soundbites highlighting sparkles inside the one-hour videos.

Posted by: drone media at June 15, 2012 05:33 PM (HOOye)

239 Easy. If I didn't read news I would have no idea that we had even changed presidents. In my own life I haven't felt a single direct effect. I have the same friends, same job, same house, same car, same taxes, same everything.
Posted by: Wilkins at June 15, 2012 05:31 PM (cgOkw)


Same gas prices? Same grocery bill? Same electric bill?

Posted by: buzzion at June 15, 2012 05:34 PM (GULKT)

240 Wut, no ampersand? I guess not.

Posted by: Clutch Cargo at June 15, 2012 05:34 PM (Qxdfp)

241 Kris Kobach is advising the Romney campaign on immigration. I have a great deal of confidence in my Secretary of State.

IMO Romney did the right thing by not taking the bait thrown out today by the Dog Eater in Chief's EO today.

Posted by: Stormy is NOT the Stormy from LGF at June 15, 2012 05:34 PM (Lo7Ka)

242 Posted by: J.J. Sefton at June 15, 2012 05:32 PM (MCDCp)



How was the traffic yesterday?

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo (NJConservative) at June 15, 2012 05:34 PM (nEUpB)

243 How the fuck can any voter be independent after experiencing the

last 3 years.


Posted by: Sean

A little bit of shame and a pocketful of government checks might do that to a person.

Posted by: Dang at June 15, 2012 05:34 PM (Ky1+e)

244

MSLSD having that bus under their skin has to be a whole lot itchier than their usual smack withdrawals.

Posted by: imp at June 15, 2012 05:35 PM (UaxA0)

245 Hey did you see my daddy was here?

Hey daddy could I have a few thousand dollars? I promise not to spend it all on cheeseburgers this time.

Posted by: Meg McCain at June 15, 2012 05:35 PM (Q1bAG)

246 So okay. Forget what I said. Why can't we just LIE to the public better than the Dems can???

To quote the divine Groucho when a woman asked if he really loved her:

"No, but I don't mind lying if I think it'll get me somewheres.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at June 15, 2012 05:36 PM (MCDCp)

247


Btw, this is why the Tea Party movement was so successful and attractive (to Independents).

There was a clear vision, mission and platform. Fiscal conservatism meshed with Constitutional Conservatism. This is understood.

Posted by: drone media at June 15, 2012 05:36 PM (HOOye)

248

I've heard that explanation, and it might partially be it, but I think it's more obvious: They actually DON'T have the facts, and are unwilling to do much to get them, and are a bit embarrassed by this (as they probably should be) so do no like expressing a preference.


***

I think that this is a basic handicap that conservatives have. Liberals/progressives love government and want to know about it and use to get their free cookies. Conservatives don't love government and basically want to live their lives without government involvement. It is only when government becomes so intrusive that they can't ignore it that they abandon the tactic of ignore it and it will goaway.

In this way, I think that Sonny Bono was the archtypical Republican. As long as he had Cher, babe, he didn't care. Then when he opened a business, he really found out about govermental intrusion and became a Republican and politician. It took a rap up along side the head to get him moving.

I have no solution for this dilemma but I do think it is a basic problem that conservatives have.

Posted by: WalrusRex at June 15, 2012 05:36 PM (jUZRg)

249 Well, if they're so easily led then why the hell can't our side lead them?!

Hmm, good point. I guess we could say the same thing about the leftards, they're easily led too, but I'm still not completely sure by what, exactly. It damn sure ain't reality.

Posted by: BackwardsBoy, feeling all extra curmudgeony today at June 15, 2012 05:36 PM (d0Tfm)

250 I think Breitbart possessed Munro for a minute.

Posted by: Meremortal at June 15, 2012 05:37 PM (jTKU5)

251 242 Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo (NJConservative) at June 15, 2012 05:34 PM (nEUpB)

I was in midtown near Grand Central, so the subway was fine. SCOAMF didn't get down to the WTC until later that afternoon.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at June 15, 2012 05:37 PM (MCDCp)

252 I always though independents were assholes with an over blown sense of self worth. They know exactly where they stand politically.

Posted by: Berserker at June 15, 2012 05:37 PM (FMbng)

253 Ace said: "Suggestion for Romney: Do a series of three one-hour videos explaining basic economics, and your plan. Release it with much fanfare. Make sure it's pretty difficult to contradict.

He did, you can buy it on Amazon: No Apology: The Case for American Greatness. 300 page distilled down version of his outlook on the nation. Nobody will read the book, nobody will buy the book.


But your idea is clever. The only problem is if he's in a video it'll spawn rebuttals overlaying or stop-framing and chopping up his presentation to argue. It'll be effective because you're rebutting the man himself.


Hybrid idea, his campaign-- which already has embraced new ways of raising efficiency and productivity in eduction -- should release a series of short web-videos in the style of Khan Academy or MIT's online courses.

Keep them short, 5 minutes, and focused on a single topic. Have them narrated by an adviser on that topic from the campaign or supporter: Harvard's Greg Mankiw on basic macro economics, John Bolton on IR/Foreign Relations, etc. Romney can join at the end for 30 seconds and ask a question or two, but because it's not Romney himself, there's almost no incentive to rebut.

The model to follow: http://www.khanacademy.org/

Posted by: Uriah Heep at June 15, 2012 05:37 PM (JdSQO)

254 Posted by: drone media at June 15, 2012 05:36 PM (HOOye)

Independents are drawn to the Tea Party movement?

Uh, please provide some data to support that statement

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo (NJConservative) at June 15, 2012 05:38 PM (nEUpB)

255 IMO Romney did the right thing by not taking the bait thrown out today by the Dog Eater in Chief's EO today.
Posted by: Stormy is NOT the Stormy from LGF at June 15, 2012 05:34 PM (Lo7Ka)


***********


Correct.


Western swing states--


Colorado-20.7%

Nevada -26.5%

New Mexico-46.3%

US-16.3%

Obama move is about that.

Posted by: Ancient Chinese Secret at June 15, 2012 05:38 PM (r2PLg)

256 248 It took a rap up along side the head to get him moving.

Posted by: WalrusRex at June 15, 2012 05:36 PM (jUZRg)

Unfortunately, it was a rap upside the head in the form of a tree that stopped him. :-(

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at June 15, 2012 05:38 PM (MCDCp)

257 This isn't an intellectual process at this point as much as it is visceral.
Something is indeed terribly wrong which is a manifestation of generailzed anxiety stemming froma collapsing economy here and abroadwhich is challenging our collective normalcy bias.

Posted by: Journolist at June 15, 2012 05:38 PM (QWOh7)

258 Percent latino populations/

Posted by: Ancient Chinese Secret at June 15, 2012 05:38 PM (r2PLg)

259 > Same gas prices? Same grocery bill? Same electric bill?

But if you go to the store and see that coffee is 10 cents more a pound than last month you don't automatically attribute it to government. And all that tends to even out to fairly moderate inflation. I'm going to by a new house soon and it is quite a bit cheaper than it would have been three years ago. I don't attribute that to government either.



Posted by: Wilkins at June 15, 2012 05:39 PM (cgOkw)

260 Obama is a stuttering clusterf*ck of a miserable failure.

Posted by: steevy at June 15, 2012 05:39 PM (Xb3hu)

261 But your idea is clever. The only problem is if he's in a video it'll spawn rebuttals overlaying or stop-framing and chopping up his presentation to argue. It'll be effective because you're rebutting the man himself.

************

Sound bites and taken out of context.


Much like Romney's MIT speech.....

Posted by: Ancient Chinese Secret at June 15, 2012 05:39 PM (r2PLg)

262 115
Hey Greg.

I missed you the day after the Wisconsin recall
election. You promised that you would show up the following day. To
gloat, I think is what you said.


Posted by: mama winger at June 15, 2012 05:07 PM

You know the "lifelong Cowboys fan" who comes out of the woodwork after a Dallas win then goes missing after a loss?

That's Greg

Posted by: kbdabear at June 15, 2012 05:39 PM (Y+DPZ)

263 As the late producer Don Simpson used to say about Hollywood:

"It isn't how you play the game. It's how you place the blame."

Maybe a lesson here in how to reach indy's.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at June 15, 2012 05:40 PM (MCDCp)

264 October suprise.
"You know we spent a trillion dollars saving the economy from the brink of disaster with the stimulus bill, so why not provide a few trillion in relief by forgiving your mortgages and student debt and credit card debt."

Posted by: rockhead at June 15, 2012 05:40 PM (jtTKf)

265 The beauty of our Constitution has been reflected (in small part) that it has restrained government so that 'independents', uninformed voters, and idiots in general couldn't screw things up too badly no matter their vote.

The tragedy of our current reality is that as Constitutional constraints are falling, the consequences of ignorance are rising.

Ace is exactly right on what works for independent voters. The small number of 'swing voters' out there respond to momentum not argumentation.

Posted by: Paper at June 15, 2012 05:40 PM (IvlIt)

266 This isn't an intellectual process at this point as much as it is visceral.
Something is indeed terribly wrong which is a manifestation of generailzed anxiety stemming froma collapsing economy here and abroadwhich is challenging our collective normalcy bias.
Posted by: Journolist at June 15, 2012 05:38 PM (QWOh7);;;;You are right but you sound like you spent one too many years in college.

Posted by: Meremortal at June 15, 2012 05:40 PM (jTKU5)

267 How many of these so-called "independents" are really no such thing but are now identifying as independents because they're too embarrassed to admit that they fell for Obama's schtick and voted for him in 2008 and now want to appear as if they're oh so thoughtful and analytical and careful about who they vote for? And where are those people who didn't vote for Obama in 2008 but who have now decided to support him? I am willing to bet my never-to-be-received social security benefits that the latter group does not exist.

Posted by: Natasha at June 15, 2012 05:41 PM (jU5uf)

268 Sen Ron Johnson - "The moment I met Mitt Romney, I knew he was a businessman and I knew he understood and embraced the free enterprise system. After I talked to him and asked him specific questions, I knew that he got the fact that we are running out of time".

"This campaign will be about government-centered society versus individual-centered society."

"When Obama said private sector was doing fine, it was NOT a gaffe - this is what he really believes. He does not understand the economics of a free enterprise system."

"Not a clue as to who the VP will be. But we have a big stable of good conservatives."


live via Mark Belling show, Milwaukee talk radio

Posted by: mama winger at June 15, 2012 05:41 PM (P6QsQ)

269 257
This isn't an intellectual process at this point as much as it is visceral.

Something is indeed terribly wrong which is a manifestation of
generailzed anxiety stemming froma collapsing economy here and
abroadwhich is challenging our collective normalcy bias.


Buh?

Posted by: Sean at June 15, 2012 05:41 PM (1jv9o)

270 I just received a letter from Bill Nelson, responding to my correspondence regarding homesteading a sub at Mayport.

The only problem, I didn't write to him about it.

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at June 15, 2012 05:42 PM (piMMO)

271 Getting lost in the woods with the candidate:

Obama - step one - blame Bush.
Step two - failing that, find someone else to blame, like the Eurozone PIIGS
Step three - elicit suggestions
Step four - select a committee to evaluate suggestions
Step five - ignore suggestions and hope for the best, government is on the way.

Romney - step one - relax, Romney wouldn't even GET lost.

Posted by: glide at June 15, 2012 05:42 PM (Z2aee)

272
I think Bo's peeps have found out they are going to lose their SCOTUS case re: 1070, and this was their preemptive response.

Posted by: Stormy is NOT the Stormy from LGF at June 15, 2012 05:42 PM (Lo7Ka)

273 Something must be done!

Posted by: Honey Badger at June 15, 2012 05:42 PM (GvYeG)

274 I don't understand the over-generalizing about independents.
Some of us don't see the need to register with a party, and depending on the state, don't even have to, to vote.

Posted by: Dr. Varno at June 15, 2012 05:43 PM (QcS9L)

275
@259, Wilkins

But...food and gas prices have been taken out of the equation for figuring Inflation.

Gosh, I wonder why.

Posted by: wheatie at June 15, 2012 05:43 PM (M2JTb)

276 Did ya'll see Marttin Bashir's clip of Romney's bus tour with the bus exploding? Hilarious and rich : http://fwd4.me/13Gk

Posted by: Dr Spank at June 15, 2012 05:44 PM (I/Xad)

277 143 Posted by: Sally Quinn at June 15, 2012 05:09 PM (6TB1Z)

Nice tits (always) win IMHO

Posted by: I have the President's back at June 15, 2012 05:44 PM (4eNxd)

278 No Apology: The Case for American Greatness. 300 page distilled down version of his outlook on the nation. Nobody will read the book, nobody will buy the book.

Correct. If you could distill Romney's platform down to a Marmaduke cartoon, you might have something.

Posted by: pep at June 15, 2012 05:44 PM (6TB1Z)

279 Posted by: Wilkins at June 15, 2012 05:39 PM (cgOkw)
***

We've got a new healthcare mandate, that's something new and different in the soup since Bush left. And it has made a difference in my life: my health insurance deductible has increased 100% and theamount being deducted from each paycheck has increased by a higher percentage than before the mandate.

Posted by: kallisto at June 15, 2012 05:45 PM (jm/9g)

280 Senator Ron Johnson on the immigration thing:

"Obama said in his press conference today that he has been trying to move immigration reform thru Congress. I've been there since 2010 and not one bill has come across the desk. No one has said a word about immigration. He thinks he can say anything and the press will carry his water."

Posted by: mama winger at June 15, 2012 05:45 PM (P6QsQ)

281 >> Step five - ignore suggestions and hope for the best, government is on the way.

Step six - get the voters to open the box.

Posted by: sandy burger at June 15, 2012 05:45 PM (6ClcK)

282
They don't really want the facts explained to them, of course.
That's already been done a million times. They just want you to take
time out to personally explain the facts to them.


So do so.




People want to feel good about their purchase. Tell them to feel good about it; give their subconscious easy excuses (tangibles to latch onto) like this idea.

Posted by: Tonic Dog at June 15, 2012 05:45 PM (X/+QT)

283 I'm a fucking ignorant idiot when it comes to current events, economics, civics, history, and anything military-related, but I vote.

Pander to me, suckah.

Posted by: The Average Independent Voter at June 15, 2012 05:45 PM (Y0o9k)

284 276
Martin Bashir is the only guy who made me pity Michael Jackson after his pretty atrocious hit piece.
I then wen back to understanding that Jacko was a homosexual pederast and pedophile. Bashir is still scum.

Posted by: Sean at June 15, 2012 05:46 PM (1jv9o)

285 "The voters of Wisconsin have strengthened the spine of conservative politicians in Washington."




Please God let this be so.

Posted by: mama winger at June 15, 2012 05:46 PM (P6QsQ)

286 He thinks he can say anything and the press will carry his water."


Posted by: mama winger at June 15, 2012 05:45 PM (P6QsQ)


The one thing Obama is right about.

Posted by: Tami at June 15, 2012 05:46 PM (X6akg)

287 Here's the "tribute" from Cavuto today.

This is not a transcript so much of the oohing and awing has been cut out.

http://fxn.ws/LSMvx1

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at June 15, 2012 05:47 PM (piMMO)

288 Getting lost in the woods with the candidate:

It's not my fault.
It's your fault.
I'm standing by.
Watch this drive!

Posted by: Baraka O at June 15, 2012 05:47 PM (FcR7P)

289 They don't really want the facts explained to them, of course.

That's already been done a million times. They just want you to take

time out to personally explain the facts to them.


Not unlike the people who fought against Romney during the primary season.

(yeah, I just felt like being a jerk)

Posted by: pep at June 15, 2012 05:47 PM (6TB1Z)

290 Ace, it's brutally honest political analysis like this that make you a must read. Well that and the dick jokes, but mostly the dick jokes.

Posted by: mugiwara at June 15, 2012 05:48 PM (KI/Ch)

291 288 Getting lost in the woods with the candidate:

1) Blame the bears for hoarding more than their fair share of the food.
2) Challenge the bears to a fight
3) Go all Timothy Treadwell on their asses.

Posted by: pep at June 15, 2012 05:49 PM (6TB1Z)

292 We are talking about Mexicans here, right?

The fastest growing segment of the Mormon sect?

Yeah . So what's for lunch?

Posted by: Mutt the Unimpressive at June 15, 2012 05:49 PM (zsgo8)

293 Martin Bashir is the only guy who made me pity Michael Jackson after his pretty atrocious hit piece.
I then wen back to understanding that Jacko was a homosexual pederast and pedophile. Bashir is still scum.


****

THIS made me so angry I could have choked him.

http://thedc.com/I637hL

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at June 15, 2012 05:51 PM (piMMO)

294 Solidify the base. Then work to expand that base. Independents and
moderates make no sense. I mean you only want to have half liberty?


Mostly they just don't care all that much about politics. It's like asking someone who doesn't drink to choose between Bud or Miller- they'll just pick whichever has the most entertaining commercials.

There's also a contingent who leans heavily one way, perhaps voting along party lines most of the time. However, they don't like every single platform that party has (social issues for instance), so call themselves "Independent" as a way to avoid being associated with those issues despite voting for the candidates of the same party 90% of the time.

Posted by: Hollowpoint at June 15, 2012 05:51 PM (SY2Kh)

295 How the fuck can any voter be independent after experiencing the

last 3 years.
-------------------------------------

Independent: "You are not addressing my needs"

Presidential Candidate: "What are your needs?"

Independent: "Well, if you don't know then you don't deserve my vote."

Posted by: The Independent Rationale at June 15, 2012 05:51 PM (AzwZn)

296
Not unlike the people who fought against Romney during the primary season.


(yeah, I just felt like being a jerk)
Posted by: pep at June 15, 2012 05:47 PM (6TB1Z) ----------- And you succeeded. Have you forgotten that 70% of the conservative voters....didn't want Romney, back when they had a choice? And....you want to open those old wounds, and rub salt in them?

Posted by: wheatie at June 15, 2012 05:51 PM (M2JTb)

297 219 >> How the fuck can any voter be independent after experiencing the last 3 years?
========

Seriously, I know a handful of indy's.

Some trust neither the GOP nor Democrats. They don't believe in a two-party system, either. It's easy to collude.

Some (females) shifted away from the Democratic Party, but won't join the GOP due to the fear instilled in them about Roe v Wade being reversed, etc. This is a BIG deal for many women regardless of party affiliation.

Many do believe in social issues and safety nets - with limits, but do not see the GOP supporting any of the "Democratic Party" social issues. It is perceived that the GOP just doesn't exhibit the same "compassion." And, whether you hate the term or not - all Americans still do have compassion.

And, some are very supportive of our military - again, many are old Dems; where the military was admired and protected by both parties. But, they just aren't stalwart republicans, therefore, left the Dem party and found a home as Indy or unaffiliated.

You cannot define Independents so tightly. They left their party for one reason or another, and haven't seen progress from either. They just don't trust them.

Posted by: drone media at June 15, 2012 05:51 PM (HOOye)

298 And....you want to open those old wounds, and rub salt in them?

I carefully considered the statement, weighed how it would be received, considered the fallout, and pushed the button. Just because. Lighten up.

Posted by: pep at June 15, 2012 05:53 PM (6TB1Z)

299 I like the videos, but do them in 15 minute segments and put them on Youtube. Get your daughters in there, and your wife, set it up like a conversation between the family. Have them bring up objections and give answers. That way you get the female "aw its a sweet family" vote, the "he has the answers" vote, and the "I'm waiting for the fact" guys all at once.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at June 15, 2012 05:53 PM (r4wIV)

300 276 -

So this lavender loving British dandy (I realize that's a statement full of redundancy) is threatening to blow up a candidate for the U.S. Presidency? Why hasn't the Secret Service visited him?

...oh, I guess he didn't put a target around his picture so it's ok.

Btw, you noticed he called Romney a racist, didn't you? I suppose that goes without saying, but I guess it justifies the calls for explosions.

Posted by: BurtTC at June 15, 2012 05:54 PM (2pG7H)

301 One of the 'ettes on Twitter reminded me of this vid. Seems very appropriate today.

Make Mine Freedom from 1948.

http://www.youtube.com/ watch?v=u6H63CD7uQA

Posted by: Retread at June 15, 2012 05:55 PM (I2fq9)

302 Here's the "tribute" from Cavuto today.

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse

Except we don't know where Bo's oft mentioned "sons" are...

Choom, choom

Posted by: Stormy is NOT the Stormy from LGF at June 15, 2012 05:55 PM (Lo7Ka)

303 Okay, I'm bored.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at June 15, 2012 05:55 PM (MCDCp)

304 Suggestion for Romney: Do a series of three one-hour videos explaining
basic economics, and your plan. Release it with much fanfare. Make
sure it's pretty difficult to contradict.


Ace, while I like the idea, I keep coming back to the idea, IIRC, that you wrote about in 2008. The encumbent is tied to his history and the challenger can be the nebulous 'everything else'. The key for the challenger is to not be specific, to be the hopeychangey blank slate.

I don't think Romeny can get away with it. I see the appeal, but he's going to have to nut up and put specifics out there. I guess there are ties for vaguity and times to look people in the eye, tell them what you want to do, and ask them to do it / vote for it.

Posted by: Tonic Dog at June 15, 2012 05:55 PM (X/+QT)

305 no, as a concerned catholic conservative, the most important thing Romney can do is to affirm that Obama is a good person and would make a good president. He should learn to reach across the aisle like McCain did and not be such a right winger like this year's Barry Goldwater because you fucking science hating republicans hate science and mormons hate science even more....um ahem...so that's the only way to get the independent vote.

Signed,
a concern troll who's barely trying

Posted by: joeindc44 says choom on fuckers at June 15, 2012 05:55 PM (QxSug)

306 Ok read half the comments. Will finish the other half but I gotta tell ya "dont just do something, stand there" comes frOm the 5th greatest president of all time Calvin Coolidge

Posted by: TheThinMan at June 15, 2012 05:55 PM (plNej)

307

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293 He can either keep lying and potentially win the White
House, but bring eternal damnation upon himself or he can start telling the
truth. The question for him, I guess, is which is more important.
Uh-huh.

Posted by: Clutch Cargo at June 15, 2012 05:55 PM (Qxdfp)

308 **304 Suggestion for Romney: Do a series of three one-hour videos explaining basic economics, and your plan. Release it with much fanfare. Make
sure it's pretty difficult to contradict. ***

I like this too, although it sounds a little Perotish...

Posted by: joeindc44 says choom on fuckers at June 15, 2012 05:56 PM (QxSug)

309 but won't join the GOP due to the fear instilled in them about Roe v Wade being reversed, etc. This is a BIG deal for many women regardless of party affiliation.
Just (gently) remind them thatnoGOP president has ever had Roe v. Wade reversal on his agenda, and even when "W" had the Senate and House, no such proposal was introduced. IOW, even when the GOP hadfull control on the Hill, Roe v. Wade remains safe, and we females are free to kill our progeny within our wombs any time we please.

Posted by: kallisto at June 15, 2012 05:56 PM (jm/9g)

310
Ace's economics lessons reminds be of Ross Perot's graphs when he went on Larry King in '92. He brought out these little graphs showing things going up and down and pie charts, lots of pie charts. You laugh but the little dude was very effective. A picture is worth a thousand words and he knew it. He also pulled 19% and threw the election to Clinton.
Romney need to educate the electorate in a simple and clear manner without using business-speak. Obama is good at using simple language, Romney should do it also.

Posted by: Max Entropy at June 15, 2012 05:56 PM (Mh5pI)

311 AGH!
I put that into plain text format first?

I denounce myself.

Go.Eat. Worms.

Posted by: Clutch Cargo at June 15, 2012 05:56 PM (Qxdfp)

312 Hell, and I'm in firefox.

Posted by: Clutch Cargo at June 15, 2012 05:57 PM (Qxdfp)

313 32
22 3

And the hits keep coming... I'm dying to see his October surprise to counter his decay.



He's blowing all of his potential October surprises now.



I'll be surprised if he has much left in the pipeline by the end of August.

Posted by: Brandon In Baton Rouge at June 15, 2012 04:47 PM (e0xKF)







The October surprise will be :



ELECTIONS CANCELLED.



MARTIAL LAW.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at June 15, 2012 04:50 PM (MCDCp)


Good lawd! That is what all the Koz kids were saying about Bush. Seriously?

Posted by: jewm at June 15, 2012 05:57 PM (qmmce)

314 299 -

I think you're suggesting something that might actually be viewed. It seems to me that Ace's point is you make the big gesture, knowing full well they can't be bothered to actually view it, but make it darned near impossible for them to ignore the fact that you made the effort.

Obviously they could do both. Who knows, there might actually still be people out there who do indeed, need Mitt to introduce himself to them.

Posted by: BurtTC at June 15, 2012 05:57 PM (2pG7H)

315 Normal

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...would make a great name for a band.

Posted by: Soothsayer at June 15, 2012 05:57 PM (84JKc)

316 310; Posted by: Max Entropy at June 15, 2012 05:56 PM (Mh5pI)


Romney: "Shit just got real, people."

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at June 15, 2012 05:57 PM (MCDCp)

317 Thank God I'm not scrolling that on my iPhone, ClutchCargo.

Posted by: t-bird at June 15, 2012 05:58 PM (FcR7P)

318 Mostly they just don't care all that much about politics. It's like
asking someone who doesn't drink to choose between Bud or Miller-
they'll just pick whichever has the most entertaining commercials.

-------

Yep. There are a lot of people who just don't follow politics. Just like some people don't follow sports. But they vote in the elections just like even non-sports fans watch the SuperBowl. Because that's what you do in America.

There are people in my life who call me up the day before elections and ask me who they are supposed to vote for.

Posted by: mama winger at June 15, 2012 05:58 PM (P6QsQ)

319 @315 lolz

Posted by: joeindc44 says choom on fuckers at June 15, 2012 05:58 PM (QxSug)

320
298....I carefully considered the statement, weighed how it would be received, considered the fallout, and pushed the button. Just because. Lighten up.

Yeah, pep.
Keep reminding us that it was the 'jerks' who wanted Romney all along....way before he was forced on the rest of us, as our one hope for defeating Barky.
That's the way to unify us.
Yep.
/

Posted by: wheatie at June 15, 2012 05:58 PM (M2JTb)

321
Uh-huh.

hahahaaha

all that for Uh-huh.


Posted by: Soothsayer at June 15, 2012 05:59 PM (84JKc)

322 drone media:
>> Many do believe in social issues and safety nets

Yup. This is a huge weakness for the GOP.

Republicans seem unable to explain or promote a liberty-minded safety net, which the voting public clearly and overwhelmingly desires (whether you agree with them or not). The Democrats "care", and the fact that their "solutions" make us less free is often hard to explain.

Republicans should put down their Ayn Rand and pick up F. A. Hayek instead. "Compassion" and liberty are not incompatible, it just takes some skill to do it right and explain it to low-information voters.

Posted by: sandy burger at June 15, 2012 05:59 PM (6ClcK)

323 313 Good lawd! That is what all the Koz kids were saying about Bush. Seriously?
Posted by: jewm at June 15, 2012 05:57 PM (qmmce)


Yeah, but did Bush do anything even remotely like this that flouted the law? What laws did he decide to ignore? Who did he recess appoint without a recess? How many guns did he smuggle over the border and how many died as a result? How many anti-constitutional laws did he shove down our throats via reconciliation and bribery?

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at June 15, 2012 05:59 PM (MCDCp)

324 Awesome feel good story of the Day:

A 9 year old girl in Scotland ran a blog about her school provided dinners. She took pictures of them, discussed what she liked, and didn't like. She often posted pictures of other school meals from around the world. She was also soliciting donations for 'Mary's Meals, (an outfit that provides healthy meals to needy African school children). As of yesterday, I believe she'd managed to solicit about 2000 pounds for the outfit.

The local council decided they didn't like the pictures of the meals she was posting...meals that they were responsible for, and banned her from taking further pictures. The story eventually ended up on Lucianne, Drudge, and Wired. Her hit counter went from just over one million total views, to over 4 million. Since yesterday. The council, after being beat about it's collective head and shoulders over that retarded ban, reversed it. Between banning, and unbanning, the amount of money donated through the link on her blog went from 2000 pounds, to almost 46,000 pounds.

(Link to her blog) http://tinyurl.com/cm348ba

Posted by: Sticky Wicket at June 15, 2012 06:01 PM (L7hol)

325 313 Posted by: jewm at June 15, 2012 05:57 PM (qmmce)


I'm not saying that SCOAMF will do it. I'm just saying given everything he has done over the past 3 years and what he believes, I think that he is QUITE CAPABLE of doing it if the circumstances are right.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at June 15, 2012 06:02 PM (MCDCp)

326 Thank God I'm not scrolling that on my iPhone, ClutchCargo.


****

I just bought an I-Phone yesterday.

How the heck do you post a comment here? I can type it, but can't hit the 'post' button.

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at June 15, 2012 06:02 PM (piMMO)

327 321 Uh-huh. hahahaaha all that for Uh-huh.

Actually for Bashir's comment, but yeah.

Uh-huh.

Posted by: Clutch Cargo at June 15, 2012 06:02 PM (Qxdfp)

328
I'm an Indy. Left the Republican party in 2007 when the tipping point passed (I can do simple math) and it became obvious that Republicans were not going to even try todo what was needed to avoid the fiscal crisis.
;;;
I am not a low-information voter. I'm voting Romney. Now that the fiscal problem is solved (by that I mean we know what's coming and how it ising to be handled) I am free to vote the rest of the issues. Romney is superior to Obama on those.

Posted by: Meremortal at June 15, 2012 06:02 PM (jTKU5)

329 Greg
Here are some other polls from Rasmussen:
Wisconsin 47-44 Romney ahead
Romney leads 50-42 on trust in handling the economy (ouch!)
53% of those polled want National Health Care repealed
Enjoy!!!

Posted by: Honey Badger at June 15, 2012 06:03 PM (GvYeG)

330 326

You have to get the official Ace of Spades HQ iPhone "Post Button" app.

$4.99.

Posted by: Clutch Cargo at June 15, 2012 06:03 PM (Qxdfp)

331 "Republicans seem unable to explain or promote a liberty-minded safety net, which the voting public clearly and overwhelmingly desires (whether you agree with them or not)."

Reagan was good at it, that was part of his genius. He could break it down to the regular guy and sell it to him effectively.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at June 15, 2012 06:03 PM (r4wIV)

332 322 Posted by: sandy burger at June 15, 2012 05:59 PM (6ClcK)


It's not just the elections. We have to win back the culture, the schools and the family. What's the word? "Values." Self-reliance is now evil. 50 plus years of Commie brainwashing will not be easy to reverse and correct.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at June 15, 2012 06:04 PM (MCDCp)

333 "many do believe in social issues and safety nets"

------
One thing I do is point to the inefficiencies and waste of government when it comes to getting money into the hands of the needy. Like a poorly-run charity that ends up only actually donating 23 cents out of every dollar, and eats up the rest of the money in overhead. Who would contribute to that? And the fact that if government didn't take so much of our money in taxes for inefficient safety nets, we could build our own, more effective, ones.

Posted by: mama winger at June 15, 2012 06:05 PM (P6QsQ)

334 How the heck do you post a comment here? I can type it, but can't hit the 'post' button.

Haven't had a problem, but I'm on an older iPhone. (not right now, of course. Thread's way too long for that)

Posted by: t-bird at June 15, 2012 06:05 PM (FcR7P)

335 Or as the left calls it, safety hammocks with safety beers nearby for safe relaxing no-show safety union jobs and "highly educated" and "pivotally important" government jobs surfing pr0n.

Posted by: joeindc44 says choom on fuckers at June 15, 2012 06:06 PM (QxSug)

336 You have to get the official Ace of Spades HQ iPhone "Post Button" app.

$4.99.


****

I'm not taking any advice from you after that screwed up comment YOU just posted!

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at June 15, 2012 06:06 PM (piMMO)

337 Uh, please provide some data to support that statement
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo (NJConservative) at June 15, 2012 05:38 PM (nEUpB)


Here's just one source:

Independents & the Tea Party

About as many registered voters say they agree with the Tea Party movement as disagree (29% vs. 26%).

Independent voters are more likely to say they agree with the Tea Party movement than disagree (by 30% to 22%).

Among likely voters, more agree than disagree with the Tea Party (36% vs. 29%).

And among independent likely voters, 39% agree with the Tea Party, compared with 26% who disagree.

http://tinyurl.com/3jcmj3s

pew research sept. 2010

To me, this was a no-brainer. But, I read independents posts over at the WSJ all the time. And, I talk to them. They seem to overwhelmingly support the Tea Party.

Posted by: drone media at June 15, 2012 06:09 PM (HOOye)

338 336 I'm not taking any advice from you after that screwed up comment YOU just posted!

Yeah, ok.
Clinton Cocktail (named for bartender, not Bubba).



From the Majestic, Alexandria Virginia (not me!)

1tbsp. Fresh Lemon Juice

1tbsp. Maple Syrup

4 oz. Bourbon or Rye Bourbon

Stir with ice, or preferably Ice block

Add lemon twist

Posted by: Clutch Cargo at June 15, 2012 06:09 PM (Qxdfp)

339 That's the way to unify us.
Yep.


If you're still on a hair-trigger about this, you won't be unified, no matter what. I put up with your whining for a year. I'm done with it.

Posted by: pep at June 15, 2012 06:10 PM (6TB1Z)

340 #338

Too highbrow for me.

I'm more a "Friday Afternoon Cocktail" kinda guy:

1 can beer.

Open
Drink
Repeat as needed

Posted by: Sticky Wicket at June 15, 2012 06:11 PM (L7hol)

341 You know what?
I think my browser's gone insane - those were regular typed hard breaks.

Restart!
Ah, fuck that - time to go drink. Have a great Friday.

Posted by: Clutch Cargo at June 15, 2012 06:11 PM (Qxdfp)

342 My groupies await. Later, morons...Fender basses rule, btw.

Posted by: Meremortal at June 15, 2012 06:13 PM (jTKU5)

343 We need to adjust the system to make it easier for idiots to vote correctly.

Get rid of withholding taxes and schedule elections within a week of tax day. I bet that's worth 5% right there. Notice how April and November are spaced just far apart that by November you've forgotten the pain of April?

Right there we'd get the "consumer" to be able to check the "price tag" before they make a "purchase" at the voting booth.

Notice how we had to help crack down on credit card companies with their slick ways of tricking consumers, but no one wants to clean up politics that way.

Another idea is a flat tax with a very generous personal exemption that mimics today's set up, but with only 1 tax rate. Then when a politician wants to raise taxes there is less a feeling of divide and conquer. sort of a benchmark, if you will.

Posted by: sexypig at June 15, 2012 06:14 PM (wWV5q)

344 326 Thank God I'm not scrolling that on my iPhone, ClutchCargo.


****

I just bought an I-Phone yesterday.

How the heck do you post a comment here? I can type it, but can't hit the 'post' button.
Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at June 15, 2012 06:02 PM (piMMO)

--------------------------

Tap the phone firmly against a hard surface and then tell Siri to go fuck herself, and the "post" button will appear.

Posted by: Soona - banned-something must be done at June 15, 2012 06:14 PM (cQCm/)

345 340

Women love these things. It's worth it. PIA to make though. And they're actually not as sweet as they sound - but I can only handle one.

I've got like 6 cases of "donated" Alaska Ale to get through - along with a bunch of Longboard Lagers and Widmer Wheats. The little fridge by the Grill can only hold so much! And, since it's Friday, 85 degrees and there's a pool right there, well...

Posted by: Clutch Cargo at June 15, 2012 06:15 PM (Qxdfp)

346 Notice how we had to help crack down on credit card companies with
their slick ways of tricking consumers, but no one wants to clean up
politics that way.


Bwa ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!

No, seriously, Congress will get right on that.

Posted by: Your Senator at June 15, 2012 06:17 PM (6ClcK)

347 309 but won't join the GOP due to the fear instilled in them about Roe v Wade being reversed, etc. This is a BIG deal for many women regardless of party affiliation.
Just (gently) remind them thatnoGOP president has ever had Roe v. Wade reversal on his agenda, and even when "W" had the Senate and House, no such proposal was introduced. IOW, even when the GOP hadfull control on the Hill, Roe v. Wade remains safe, and we females are free to kill our progeny within our wombs any time we please.
Posted by: kallisto at June 15, 2012 05:56 PM (jm/9g)
======

Yea, well, the liberal media has convinced them otherwise, and don't worry - I'm so sick of one-issue voters, I try to inform.

And, most women I know are AGAINST aborting a baby - but they want the CHOICE to make that decision.

Posted by: drone media at June 15, 2012 06:17 PM (HOOye)

348 What ees it, man?!

Posted by: Normal 0 at June 15, 2012 06:18 PM (CEmuk)

349 If you're still on a hair-trigger about this, you won't be unified, no matter what. I put up with your whining for a year. I'm done with it.
Posted by: pep at June 15, 2012 06:10 PM (6TB1Z) --------- Wrong on both counts, pep. Perhaps you've missed all the pro-Romney comments I've been posting. ...For months now. And, I haven't even been around here for a year yet....not even close. Just please....try to resist posting the "nah nah nah my candidate won" stuff. It really isn't helpful....to us winning. Which is really all I care about at this point.

Posted by: wheatie at June 15, 2012 06:19 PM (M2JTb)

350 new post

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at June 15, 2012 06:19 PM (piMMO)

351 @296

The Romneybots believe that their Romney-slurpage is shared by anyone but them.

They can't help doing the end-zone dance for old Robo-Hair . It's the white Mormon version of the Obama boyfriend thing for them.

Think obsessive like a reverse MSNBC with Art Bell and Alex Jones instead of Madcow and Chrissie.

Emote the vote!


Posted by: reality check at June 15, 2012 06:20 PM (zsgo8)

352 @351 can't believe that their Romney-slurpage is not shared by anyone but them.

Posted by: reality check at June 15, 2012 06:23 PM (zsgo8)

353 OT: Rats leaving a sinking ship? Link in sig.

Posted by: Tonic Dog at June 15, 2012 06:28 PM (X/+QT)

354 <<Suggestion for Romney: Do a series of three one-hour videos...>>



ZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Posted by: Sgt. York at June 15, 2012 06:48 PM (pqW4Y)

355 "... Jeffrey said the tenor of the campaign turned him off, that he felt
like he was in the middle of a weird argument between a husband and
wife, and all he wanted to do was leave the room."

That is the voter who is very non-ideological and does not give much thought to politics. Unlike people who comment here. That is the person who watches football, but does not follow the drafts, and does not engage in fantasy football. When an election actually comes up, he goes and does his duty, does a few minutes - maybe an hour - of looking over issues (if that much) and then goes to vote.

Otherwise, Jeffrey has other things to do, other things that engage him. This isn't it. And that is why the major parties are not so ideological. Most voters are not ideological. The parties try to go where they will find the voters. That is how it is, has been, and will be.

Now. If you can change the culture so that the voters follow those cues into the path your ideology has set? Grand. But...can you keep things there, for if the culture has been changed once it can be changed again.

It can be changed again.

Posted by: Mikey NTH - meditating on the many meanings of SCOAMF-itude at June 15, 2012 07:40 PM (gmoEG)

356 I had similar thoughts for actions Romney should take that ideally, would also involve Ryan. My idea relates to a series of ten 60 second spots pointed at giving a class to Obama on Economics 101. That way you avoid calling the target audience economic eliterates, while speaking directly to the ecomic eliterates who believe this recession (or depression) is President Bush's fault. You kill two birds with one stone. Firstly, you speak directly to Obama, but nevertheless give an effective entry level class on economics, and secondly, you try to turn that lage segment of the population that currently beliefs the crap about Bush being at fault. In reality, Obama turned a business cycle correction into a major recession. Bush was not at fault. On the one hand, presidents can delay or mitigate business cyle corrections, but cannot prevent them. On the other hand, Presidents can take actions, as Obama did, that do considerable additional damage and put a stop to a normal correction.
I believe this type of an approach could swing 5% of the public and take Romney's odds of winning a dramatic beatdown to over 95%.
Regards,

Posted by: Arnie at June 15, 2012 08:19 PM (Uxqw5)

357 "Eliterates" is a wonderful misspelling.

Posted by: BourbonChicken at June 15, 2012 08:31 PM (hftE2)

358 Romney giving a one hour video on basic economics. Hahahaha. Good one. Touching, really. Making it hard to contradict will be the problem. Crony-capitalism only plays well with certain crowds.

Posted by: Allan Ripley at June 15, 2012 10:15 PM (+pp9a)

359 "Just something to keep in mind."

OK, not to be an *ss-kisser or anything, but this might be the most brilliant blog-post I've ever read.


Posted by: jocon307 at June 15, 2012 10:19 PM (bbVJG)

360 The REALLY scary question for Democrats should be: Is anyone who voted for McCain last time going to vote for Obama this time? Unless they can answer that yes, they had better go with Hilary.

Posted by: Kevin M at June 15, 2012 10:37 PM (Cgcz5)

361 Sorry but you can't hold an independent's attention any longer than 15 minutes at best. A long series in 5 minute increments might work.

Posted by: toadold at June 15, 2012 10:45 PM (uy9re)

362 October surprise: "due to "family' and "health" reasons I hereby withdraw from the
for the Presidency of the United States. I wish I could go on. Unfortunately for
ME and the people of the United States, I cannot. Of course I'm going to keep
the 1 Billion dollars you have raised for ME. It's MINE. Good night, and God bless
America."

Posted by: PTL at June 15, 2012 11:45 PM (pg83M)

363 Mencken said it most succinctly: "The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary."

Posted by: vidkunquisling at June 16, 2012 12:02 AM (lvFwm)

364 Test 3 2 1 1 2 3 Test complete

Posted by: Qwerty at June 16, 2012 01:07 AM (smOGA)

365 I think the reason Clinton won in 92 was the success of Ross Perot's deficit commercials that convinced independents to vote for him. I have always felt that doing a half hour campaign commercial, with charts and graphs, explaining to people what the problem is and what you're going to do about it is the most effective way to win over undecideds.

Posted by: Ann NY at June 16, 2012 07:26 AM (yc+d4)

366 Political scientists have known for decades that Independents aren't nearly as independent as they claim. They like the attention, however, that comes with the label. They like to be wooed and coddled. They like being sought after and the appearance of being more cerebral and circumspect than partisans. And until the media stops attributing to them a laudable above the fray status, their numbers will keep on growing.

Posted by: CA Holly at June 16, 2012 01:15 PM (4jXrB)






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