America Hits Debt Ceiling; Treasury Raids Federal Pensions Funds

Hoh boy. We should have seen this coming. I didn't. I didn't read anyone predicting it.

The best solution, for conservatives and America, is to just spend less, of course.

But Democrats will never, ever do that.

So the first thing they do is raid the pension funds, because that's not current spending, and they figure that will be replaced.

Should have seen it coming. It's so liberal. Just keep borrowing and spending and taking money from one federal account to spend it for other purposes.

Treasury Secretary Timothy F. Geithner has warned for months that the government would soon hit the $14.3 trillion debt ceiling — a legal limit on how much it can borrow. With that limit reached Monday, Geithner is undertaking special measures in an effort to postpone the day when he will no longer have enough funds to pay all of the government’s bills.

Geithner, who has already suspended a program that helps state and local government manage their finances, will begin to borrow from retirement funds for federal workers. The measure won’t have an impact on retirees because the Treasury is legally required to reimburse the program.

The maneuver buys Geithner only a few months of time. If Congress does not vote by Aug. 2 to raise the debt limit, Geithner says the government is likely to default on some of its obligations...

Or we could just spend less, but of course that's not even a possibility.

There's a theory the liberals adopted in law. At some point it occurred to them that if the federal courts kept asserting power to interfere in state law, forcing them to be more liberal, than that same asserted power could be used against them one day, to force state law to become more conservative. Conservatives generally don't support that, as we don't think the federal government should overrule states generally, be we could support it. (Some do, actually.)

So, to avoid that possibility, they made up yet another double-standard "We can do this but you can't, just because" theory, called the "one-way ratchet theory." Like a one-way ratchet, courts can only overrule state legislatures in the direction of increasing liberality; the ratchet cannot go the other way, they say.

Because: ratchet.

Good to see the same sort of rule applies to the size of government and ever-growing mountain of government spending and debt.

I have to admit, liberals are at least consistent in their wild inconsistency.

Posted by: Ace at 03:18 PM



Comments

1
High Speed Rail isn't gonna fund itself, you know.

Posted by: Soothsayer at May 16, 2011 03:20 PM (gM4zK)

2 We have to spend until the government is insolvent in order to save it. What don't you crackers bitter gun-clingers people don't understand?

Posted by: Barack Obama at May 16, 2011 03:20 PM (136wp)

3 Those SOB's, there will be hell to pay over this.

Posted by: Oldsailor's poet at May 16, 2011 03:20 PM (Jq4xH)

4 I'm so glad the adults are back in charge.

Posted by: © Sponge at May 16, 2011 03:21 PM (UK9cE)

5 If you ask me if I think that we need to spend money to avoid bankruptcy, I'd say yes.

Posted by: Sheriff Sputnik at May 16, 2011 03:22 PM (UK9cE)

6 Obama is running America like a union thug. Of course they are going to raid the pension fund. That is what union bosses do. Why do you think the feds want control of your IRA????

Posted by: izoneguy at May 16, 2011 03:23 PM (83mM1)

7 Semi OT:
This will piss you off:
Gov. Jerry Brown not giving up on tax hikes to help California budget
The governor is expected to ask lawmakers to approve some tax hikes first and seek voter approval later.
"Even Democratic leaders and the governor's union backers, doubting the odds of a tax measure passing at the ballot box, are pushing Brown to break his pledge and forgo voter input.
"Go get a deal done," said David Kieffer, executive director of the state council of the influential Service Employees International Union, in a challenge to Brown and the Legislature. Californians "would vote the taxes down," he said, and "they don't actually need to be involved in this decision.""
http://tinyurl.com/5vu4f89
No need to worry taxpayers' pretty little heads. Just give your money to our communist and union thug (but I repeat myself) lords and masters commissars.

Posted by: Jay Guevara at May 16, 2011 03:23 PM (IdCuw)

8
They're going to keep "raiding" until there is no choice but to cut spending raise taxes.


Posted by: Soothsayer at May 16, 2011 03:23 PM (gM4zK)

9 Sounds like a blatant attack on old people... and children... and children who would otherwise grow up to be old people if their pensions hadn't been raided by the government. Oh well. Fuck 'em.

Posted by: Herman Cain for President at May 16, 2011 03:24 PM (jx2j9)

10 Well, there goes my pension.

Posted by: Sean Bannion at May 16, 2011 03:24 PM (sbV1u)

11
"Here I shit. Myhole is full of soap.
I think I'll kiss her snatch and pee,
before they cornhole me."
--Snakeshit,Shake-Shit...ah, Bullshit

Posted by: Puchlines R Us at May 16, 2011 03:24 PM (PF3FV)

12 No need to worry taxpayers' pretty little heads. Just give your money to our communist and union thug (but I repeat myself) lords and masters commissars.

Posted by: Jay Guevara at May 16, 2011 03:23 PM (IdCuw)


Yeah, what's wrong with that? I mean, it's working so well for Illinois right now. They raised taxes 58% in some cases and that state is just a rockin and a rollin right now, isn't it?

Posted by: © Sponge at May 16, 2011 03:24 PM (UK9cE)

13 Geithner has a number of conservative means by which he can keep the government afloat for several months but he won't use them. Instead, he'll choose all the wrong/liberal ideas. Raiding pensions is only the first step.

Posted by: Miss'80sBaby at May 16, 2011 03:25 PM (lor88)

14 Let's hear Monty weigh in here. How many other tricks and fiscal gimmicks can the Treasury pull? Possibly dozens. There seems to be no end to the road that accomodates the kicking can.

Posted by: George Orwell at May 16, 2011 03:25 PM (AZGON)

15 Priorities people!

Posted by: Cowboy Poet Society at May 16, 2011 03:26 PM (sOtz/)

16 How can you raid unfunded pensions?

Posted by: Dr Spank at May 16, 2011 03:26 PM (1fB+3)

17
one word: shady


Posted by: Soothsayer at May 16, 2011 03:26 PM (gM4zK)

18 Posted by: izoneguy at May 16, 2011 03:23 PM (83mM1)
Dude, I believe that they already have control over my IRA and 401k!
The good news is that now you don't have to plan for retirement--the liberals are going to do it for to you.

Posted by: Hrothgar at May 16, 2011 03:26 PM (yrGif)

19 Love it. I'm expecting a newfound respect from federal employees for spending discipline. Can't get enough of that sweet, sweet big gubmint spending? Well, Uncle is gonna need access to your pension funds to keep the gravy train flowing. bwahahahaha

Posted by: Its Morning in the Pension Fund of America at May 16, 2011 03:27 PM (K/USr)

20 Well taking from the super generous federal pension plan is a good thing. Its an area that needs to be cut back anyway. Especially the pensions for the congress critters. /Barney Frank hardest hit (I wish)

Posted by: Palerider at May 16, 2011 03:27 PM (dkExz)

21 So the first thing they do is raid the pension funds, because that's not
current spending, and they figure that will be replaced.

We should have seen it coming because they have done it twice before with SS funding. Increase taxes and then spend spend spend. It is normal for Dems.

Besides, this is simply an accounting measure to place a veneer of legality on the debt ceiling bust. They a re simply moving zeros around in their databases.

Posted by: Vic at May 16, 2011 03:27 PM (M9Ie6)

22 How can you raid unfunded pensions?
Federal pensions are funded. It's the state pension system that's boned.
Well, until now that is.

Posted by: Sean Bannion at May 16, 2011 03:27 PM (sbV1u)

23
What ever happened to that ~$700B in unused funds Ace posted about a few months ago?

Posted by: Soothsayer at May 16, 2011 03:27 PM (gM4zK)

24 Called Feinstein's office. After I brought that to one of her staff's attention she gave me the basic response: "I'm not here to offer my opinions."

Posted by: John P. Squibob at May 16, 2011 03:27 PM (/U/Mr)

25 But go ahead and make jokes about how socialist Canada is.

Posted by: logprof at May 16, 2011 03:28 PM (BP6Z1)

26 There seems to be no end to the road that accomodates the kicking can.

But in the end, there will be only chaos bankruptcy.

An ethereal fiat currency cannot stand long against the unyielding reality of our entitlement crisis and 50+ years of fiscal mismanagement.

Posted by: Kratos (Ghost of Sparta) at May 16, 2011 03:28 PM (9hSKh)

27 OT Double post.. But I have to spread the word of Cain!

Herman Cain Remix - Please enjoy!

Posted by: Mjim at May 16, 2011 03:28 PM (rN9Na)

28 Watch those assholes go for our 401k's next.It will happen.

Posted by: ziptie at May 16, 2011 03:28 PM (nj7LO)

29 Raiding federal pensions is only the first step.

Posted by: Miss'80sBaby at May 16, 2011 03:25 PM (lor8
The scary thing is that it IS only the first step--I can hardly wait to find out what the next step will be.

Posted by: Hrothgar at May 16, 2011 03:29 PM (yrGif)

30
Breaking news, everyone.

The Debt Ceiling has revealed it is gay in its memoir.

Posted by: Soothsayer at May 16, 2011 03:29 PM (gM4zK)

31 Geithner, who has already suspended a program that helps state and local government manage their finances
Words fail me.

Posted by: Circa (Insert Year Here) at May 16, 2011 03:29 PM (B+qrE)

32 Let the government shut down. Force a vote on this thing and force some tough choices to be made. Stand your effing ground! Stop compromising. If the reps allow them to "negotiate" small symbolic cuts in order to keep it afloat, they are just as bad. (I think they are actually) We're at a point in this nation that we have to make some actually changes.

Posted by: Dr Snuess at May 16, 2011 03:29 PM (re6ik)

33 >>Federal pensions are funded.


Is there some kind of lock box I haven't heard of?

Posted by: Dr Spank at May 16, 2011 03:29 PM (1fB+3)

34 Just the tip.

I promise.

Posted by: Turbo Tax Timmy at May 16, 2011 03:30 PM (BP6Z1)

35 The "one-way ratchet theory" was mine. I'm sueing.

Posted by: Ronster at May 16, 2011 03:30 PM (CZBRL)

36 Yeah, what's wrong with that? I mean, it's working so well for Illinois right now. They raised taxes 58% in some cases and that state is just a rockin and a rollin right now, isn't it?
Yeah, but here's the kicker: the communist union thug and his lackey, Jerry Brown, don't want to submit the tax increase to the voters because they figure it'll be turned down.
So they're going to fucking do it anyway, just without a vote, because they know they would lose one. Who can say "taxation without representation?" I can!

Posted by: Jay Guevara at May 16, 2011 03:30 PM (IdCuw)

37 The wheels are starting to come off, visibly. Nice timing for the political fortunes of Barack "The Jihadi Killer" Obama.

Posted by: Cicero at May 16, 2011 03:31 PM (QKKT0)

38 35
The "one-way ratchet theory" was mine. I'm sueing.

Posted by: Ronster at May 16, 2011 03:30 PM (CZBRL)
--Actually, Steyn has been using that metaphor for years.

Posted by: logprof at May 16, 2011 03:31 PM (BP6Z1)

39 Knock three times on the debt ceiling if you want me...

Posted by: Tobenny Borlandonanke at May 16, 2011 03:31 PM (art7S)

40 Judging by the way they tried to enact amnesty several times, by trying to rename it, my guess is that some very creative accounting is in our future which allows them to borrow more without actually calling it debt. The crack ho's gotta have their fix.

Posted by: Bob Saget at May 16, 2011 03:32 PM (F/4zf)

41 Time to cash out of my 401k and open up an offshore account. Fuck the penalties, I think I'll make out better than staying put and letting it get raped by Geithner.

Posted by: EC at May 16, 2011 03:32 PM (GQ8sn)

42 39, I'll beat you with a pipe (clink, clink) if your answer is noooo......

Posted by: Oldsailor's poet at May 16, 2011 03:33 PM (Jq4xH)

43 I won't cum in your mouth.... I promise!

Posted by: Tim Geithner at May 16, 2011 03:33 PM (rkrOv)

44 very creative accounting is in our future which allows them to borrow more without actually calling it debt
Have you been paying attention to what the Fed is doing?
We passed that exit about twenty miles back.

Posted by: Circa (Insert Year Here) at May 16, 2011 03:33 PM (B+qrE)

45
...... and you clingers thought we were kidding......

Posted by: Cloward & Piven at May 16, 2011 03:33 PM (C8hzL)

46 So, how long will it take to burn through the pension plans of every federal worker and retiree? 3 months? 6 months?

Posted by: Jimbo at May 16, 2011 03:34 PM (O3R/2)

47
speaking of taxes...

Is Claire McAsswipe under ethics investigation? She should be.

Posted by: Soothsayer at May 16, 2011 03:34 PM (gM4zK)

48 I take it "treasury raids" aren't as much fun as "panty raids".

Posted by: Waterhouse at May 16, 2011 03:34 PM (fsGgs)

49 Put it another way... at some point, does it not look like the government is just making this shit up as it goes along? Because: they are. What if Treasury told us they are "borrowing" against, say, the value of federal lands? Or future tax revenue? Or the value of GM and Chrysler? (Well, that wouldn't be much.)

Looking at the article, it only says Geithner wants to borrow from retirement funds for federal workers. Who approves the lending? What precisely is lent? At what terms? Is the lent "money" unavailable for other uses? Why? Why not? Are there any limits to the terms? Can Treasury borrow at .0001% for 100 years? Who knows?

The opacity of the federal purse and its apparent infinite elasticity should make everyone very suspicious.

Posted by: George Orwell at May 16, 2011 03:34 PM (AZGON)

50 thanks Ace for posting about this. When I put the link up this morning I was so very upset. Well, I guess they can't raid social security anymore, been there done that and all. and medicare and medicade are done and fannie and freddie are more sore than the chicken. So, the next thing is federal pensions and the next thing after that is your pension? I remember a couple of wall street jobs writing what everyone thought were conspiracy type articles about federal pensions a couple of months ago. Hm wonder if those guys are going to come out and say "yep, we were right".

Posted by: curious at May 16, 2011 03:34 PM (k1rwm)

51 43 I won't cum in your mouth.... I promise!

Posted by: Tim Geithner at May 16, 2011 03:33 PM

Go right ahead, I don't mind!

Posted by: Don Lemon at May 16, 2011 03:34 PM (rkrOv)

52 Smart political move. Get the government employees hopping mad, because they always vote, thus ensuring Congressmen will kowtow to them and raise taxes on the rest of us.
Or raise the debt ceiling, which is a tax increase set in the future.
Here in Dallas County, only 10 percent of us voted in the municipal elections just concluded. If just one-fourth of those are government workers, you can see why there have been and will be no spending cuts, but only tax increases.

Posted by: Michael Smith at May 16, 2011 03:34 PM (2Oas0)

53 Watch those assholes go for our 401k's next.It will happen.
Posted by: ziptie at May 16, 2011 03:28 PM (nj7LO)
Hey, anyone know where there's a big pile of unused money sitting around?

Posted by: Tim Geithner, Shitty at TurboTax But A Wizard At Shell Games at May 16, 2011 03:34 PM (QKKT0)

54 The Debt Ceiling has revealed it is gay in its memoir.

Lemonade for everyone!

Posted by: George Orwell at May 16, 2011 03:35 PM (AZGON)

55 Theme song!!!

Posted by: logprof brings the cheese at May 16, 2011 03:35 PM (BP6Z1)

56 The issue now before the Republicans is that any raising of the debt limit cannot be used to refund the Federal pension program. Those Federal workers need to have the same thing that's in my Social Security program: A big fat I.O.U. signed by TuboTax Timmy.

It's a matter of fairness, you know.

And, yeah, I know that there's no such thing as an SS pension. SCOTUS settled that long time ago. But if Congress is still going to sell it as one, I might as well use that therm also.

Posted by: John P. Squibob at May 16, 2011 03:35 PM (/U/Mr)

57 --Actually, Steyn has been using that metaphor for years.
Posted by: logprof at May 16, 2011 03:31 PM (BP6Z1)
I'm older than Steyn. I just don't get the coverage.

Posted by: Ronster at May 16, 2011 03:35 PM (CZBRL)

58 Words fail me.
Posted by: Circa (Insert Year Here) at May 16, 2011 03:29 PM (B+qrE)
The jokes write themselves.

Posted by: Cicero at May 16, 2011 03:35 PM (QKKT0)

59 Let me ask a simple question, do you think the Federales loosing their investment (ha ha) in their pension fund will decide to become conservative? We all know all Government Pension Funds are ponzi schemes. So who among the Fed workforce will decide to go on strike? BTW, what is the vesting period for Fed Pensions. Military has to reach 20 years active service. Not sure on the GSers.

Posted by: Sub-tard Goober at May 16, 2011 03:36 PM (Q5+Og)

60 So, how long will it take to burn through the pension plans of every federal worker and retiree? 3 months? 6 months?

Posted by: Jimbo at May 16, 2011 03:34 PM

You think there's really money in those?

Posted by: Barry Obama at May 16, 2011 03:36 PM (IN2A4)

61 What's wrong with raiding public pension funds?

Posted by: The European Union at May 16, 2011 03:36 PM (6uiF7)

62 The measure won’t have an impact on retirees because the Treasury is legally required to reimburse the program.

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

Posted by: FUBAR at May 16, 2011 03:36 PM (1fanL)

63 Is there some kind of lock box I haven't heard of?
Yes, it's right next to Al Gore's Social Security lock box. It's on the top shelf in the back right hand corner of the Library of Congress.
But seriously folks, they are funded the same way Social Security is (which in itself scares the shit out of me), without near the liability. But no, the is no guarantee here either. It's just that the Federal system structurally set up to fail like the state systems are.
The Federal pension plan changed from the fantastically generous CSRS to the FERS (Federal Employee Retirement System) in 1986. FERS is less generous and requires higher contributions than CSRS. Even with that, it's much less generous than these state systems you're hearing about. These days, if you're a Fed your retirement system is pretty much limited to what you personally sock away in your Thrift Savings Plan.
So on behalf of those like me, I'd like to thank Tim Geither for the lack of a reach around.

Posted by: Sean Bannion at May 16, 2011 03:37 PM (sbV1u)

64 Go right ahead, I don't mind!

Posted by: Don Lemon at May 16, 2011 03:34 PM (rkrOv)
--That is as true figuratively as it is literally.

Posted by: logprof at May 16, 2011 03:37 PM (BP6Z1)

65 We promised Granny and Gramps a golden future where they would have cushy golden years, then spent the money for that and now have to steal the younger set's retirement to fund Granny and Gramps. But we still have the promises!

Posted by: nickless at May 16, 2011 03:37 PM (0sdvX)

66 I guess Don Lemon and I weren't meant to be.

Posted by: Fiona Apple at May 16, 2011 03:37 PM (BP6Z1)

67
AMERICA'S BACK!

Posted by: NEWSWEEK April 19, 2010 with 30 Perccent More Charlie Sheen at May 16, 2011 03:38 PM (NNf5U)

68 Power of the Purse, its all we got.

Posted by: Jean at May 16, 2011 03:38 PM (WkuV6)

69 I've been debating whether or not to open up a Roth IRA for a while now, and I can't seem to think of a good reason to do so now.

It essentially locks my money away where i can't get it should the government decide to revoke the tax benefits .

Posted by: Ben at May 16, 2011 03:38 PM (wuv1c)

70 53
Watch those assholes go for our 401k's next.It will happen.
Posted by: ziptie at May 16, 2011 03:28 PM (nj7LO)

Won't happen. Too many Senators and Congressmen get their campaign cash from folks with 401ks. This is a hit on those "valued" public employees. They can thank Sparky personally in November.

Posted by: Sub-tard Goober at May 16, 2011 03:38 PM (Q5+Og)

71 Geez and I thought the guys who said there will be no refunds this year were kidding.

Posted by: curious at May 16, 2011 03:38 PM (k1rwm)

72 You think there's really money in those?

Posted by: Barry Obama at May 16, 2011 03:36 PM (IN2A4)
With Geithner's personal accounting skills, I doubt that there is any more money in the Fed pension lock-box than there is in the SS lock-box.
Oh wait...

Posted by: Hrothgar at May 16, 2011 03:39 PM (yrGif)

73
If I was Boehner, I'd be out there right now demanding the pay freeze for all cabinet czars.

And then I'd demand Debbie Wasserman Schultz to blow me.

Posted by: Soothsayer at May 16, 2011 03:39 PM (gM4zK)

74 Or we could just spend less, but of course that's not even a possibility.
A junkie's not gonna get clean, he's gonna steal your TV.

Posted by: nickless at May 16, 2011 03:39 PM (0sdvX)

75 The measure won’t have an impact on retirees because the Treasury is legally required to reimburse the program.AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

Like I said, change the law when you raise the debt ceiling: No refunding of Federal pension funds.

Posted by: John P. Squibob at May 16, 2011 03:39 PM (/U/Mr)

76 So now we'll see just how much guts Repubs have. Am not holding out any hope. It's going to be another game of kick the can.

Posted by: A Guy With A Fist Up His Ass at May 16, 2011 03:39 PM (gO39k)

77 And another thing. I like to think that my IRA is safe from seizure thanks to the GOP majority in the House of Representatives.

Posted by: Jimbo at May 16, 2011 03:39 PM (O3R/2)

78 Posted by: Sub-tard Goober at May 16, 2011 03:38 PM (Q5+Og)

When he came into office wasn't one of the first things he did was to raise their salaries, many double and triple, some quadruple?

Maybe he knew this was an eventuality so he wanted to get the cash to them up front?

Posted by: curious at May 16, 2011 03:40 PM (k1rwm)

79 Posted by: Fiona Apple at May 16, 2011 03:37 PM (BP6Z1)
Call me in 11 years.

Posted by: Apple Paltrow-Martin, or whateverthefuck my last name is at May 16, 2011 03:40 PM (fsGgs)

80 #53 Exactly.Look,we bailed GM and Chrysler out.We'll take the moneythat they pay us back with and pay you back.We promise. I am beyond discusted with these people.

Posted by: ziptie at May 16, 2011 03:40 PM (nj7LO)

81 Damn that was an old and nasty sock.

Posted by: Samuel Adams at May 16, 2011 03:40 PM (gO39k)

82 And then I'd demand Debbie Wasserman Schultz to blow me.
Would you happen to have her number?

Posted by: Anonymous French Guy Calling from Pay Phone on Riker's Island at May 16, 2011 03:40 PM (B+qrE)

83 Didn't some president take all the gold in private hands in the country or something?

Posted by: curious at May 16, 2011 03:40 PM (k1rwm)

84 So are we all Irish now?

Posted by: Kratos (Ghost of Sparta) at May 16, 2011 03:40 PM (9hSKh)

85 So he is raising the old Civil Service pension dues, the federal matching dollars for the Thrift Savings Plan, or the special Pension funds for Congressman?

Posted by: Jean at May 16, 2011 03:40 PM (WkuV6)

86 And since the Federal pension funds are funded, does that mean that stocks and bonds are going to fall, with all that funding leaving?

Posted by: John P. Squibob at May 16, 2011 03:41 PM (/U/Mr)

87 And then I'd demand Debbie Wasserman Schultz to blow me.
Eeech, no thanks. That overbite would be a killer

Posted by: Sean Bannion at May 16, 2011 03:41 PM (sbV1u)

88 Yes, it's right next to Al Gore's Social Security
lock box.

Posted by: Sean Bannion at May 16, 2011 03:37 PM (sbV1u)
What? I think there's been a misunderstanding. I didn't say "lock box," I said "cock box."

Posted by: Al "Chakra" Gore at May 16, 2011 03:41 PM (1fanL)

89 Jean, they are going after FERS. The Fed retirement system. Congress isn't in FERS so, well you know, they'll be fine.
But they will apreciate knowing you were concerned about their futures.

Posted by: Sean Bannion at May 16, 2011 03:42 PM (sbV1u)

90 Told you, assholes.

Posted by: Tytler at May 16, 2011 03:43 PM (0sdvX)

91 raising --> raiding

Posted by: Jean at May 16, 2011 03:43 PM (WkuV6)

92 What? I think there's been a misunderstanding. I didn't say "lock box," I said "cock box."

The cock box is out? The cock box is out??

Posted by: Don Lemon at May 16, 2011 03:43 PM (AZGON)

93
And then I'd demand Debbie Wasserman Schultz to blow me.


Eeech, no thanks. That overbite would be a killer

Posted by: Sean Bannion at May 16, 2011 03:41 PM (sbV1u)

Oooo! Oooo!
I volunteer!

Posted by: Maria Cantwell at May 16, 2011 03:44 PM (BP6Z1)

94 Posted by: A Guy With A Fist Up His Ass at May 16, 2011 03:39 PM (gO39k)

Back from Fire Island, Sam?

Posted by: garrett at May 16, 2011 03:44 PM (SMGgV)

95 OT:
Did I miss something? Is it national coming out day or soemthing?
The CNN guy, the President of the Phoenix Suns, and now ESPN has a front pager about some former Villanova basketball player.
What the hell?

Posted by: Circa (insert Year Here) at May 16, 2011 03:44 PM (B+qrE)

96 Double double, lemony bubble

Posted by: Cherry π at May 16, 2011 03:44 PM (+sBB4)

97 If I was Boehner, I'd be out there right now demanding the pay freeze for all cabinet czars.
And then I'd demand But first, Debbie Wasserman Schultz to will blow me.

FIFY

Posted by: John P. Squibob at May 16, 2011 03:44 PM (/U/Mr)

98 The CNN guy, the President of the Phoenix Suns, and now ESPN has a front pager about some former Villanova basketball player.

Guys that like playing with balls...

Posted by: Don Lemon at May 16, 2011 03:44 PM (AZGON)

99 What about our military retirement? I know it's part of the military budget but they want to cut that too.Looks like twenty years of putting up with nothing but bullshit is in the wind.

Posted by: ziptie at May 16, 2011 03:44 PM (nj7LO)

100 So he is raising the old Civil Service pension dues,
the federal matching dollars for the Thrift Savings Plan, or the
special Pension funds for Congressman?

Posted by: Jean at May 16, 2011 03:40 PM (WkuV6)
Screw a politician, it is to laugh!Screw a peasant (even a Federal peasant), now that is what we do for entertainment!

Posted by: TurboTimG at May 16, 2011 03:45 PM (yrGif)

101 Sean - I thought FERS was basically a Federal 401K, with match and employee contribution to a bunch of stock funds -- you mean government owns all of those stocks, not the individuals?

Posted by: Jean at May 16, 2011 03:45 PM (WkuV6)

102 92
What? I think there's been a misunderstanding. I didn't say "lock box," I said "cock box."





The cock box is out? The cock box is out??

Posted by: Don Lemon at May 16, 2011 03:43 PM (AZGON)
*KNOCK**KNOCK*

Posted by: Justin Timberlake at May 16, 2011 03:45 PM (BP6Z1)

103
Debt Ceiling is gay, too, don't forget.


Posted by: Soothsayer at May 16, 2011 03:45 PM (gM4zK)

104 Maria Cantwell at May 16, 2011 03:44 PM (BP6Z1)
Can't I just get Kristi Noem to call me? Please?

Posted by: Sean Bannion at May 16, 2011 03:45 PM (sbV1u)

105 Watch those assholes go for our 401k's next.It will happen.
Posted by: ziptie at May 16, 2011 03:28 PM (nj7LO)

I'm glad I got out of mine. I'm actually starting to rethink my Roth account. Those would be next. Secession is really starting to look good to me.

Posted by: Soona at May 16, 2011 03:46 PM (JIDys)

106 It's not their money, it's a resource that belongs to all of America.
Of course it belongs to some Americans more than others.

Posted by: Michael Moore at May 16, 2011 03:47 PM (iYwUw)

107
Cantwell is bangin that nerd from CNBC, right?


Posted by: Soothsayer at May 16, 2011 03:47 PM (gM4zK)

108 This is serious stuff. There is a lack of trust here now. We may think little of these folks but heck they are entitled to not have their pensions raided cause congress can't stop spending.

Posted by: curious at May 16, 2011 03:47 PM (k1rwm)

109 Don Lemon asked me if he could show me his lock box after the show.

Posted by: Cherry π at May 16, 2011 03:47 PM (+sBB4)

110 Sean - I thought FERS was basically a Federal 401K, with match and employee contribution to a bunch of stock funds...
No, you're thinking of the Thrift Saving Plan. That's an accurate description. FERS, though, is a supplement to the TSP. To give you an example of how thin FERS is, I've been a Fed for 2 1/2 years.
There's 2K in my FERS account. So, it's not like FERS is a good deal.

Posted by: Sean Bannion at May 16, 2011 03:48 PM (sbV1u)

111
Has anyone called Don Lemon courageous, yet?

Posted by: Soothsayer at May 16, 2011 03:48 PM (gM4zK)

112 OT:
Did I miss something? Is it national coming out day or soemthing?
The CNN guy, the President of the Phoenix Suns, and now ESPN has a front pager about some former Villanova basketball player.
What the hell?
Are you trying to tell us something Circa?

Posted by: Ben at May 16, 2011 03:48 PM (wuv1c)

113 Shoot.I own a little bit of gold too. I'm sure thier giving that a thought too.Nothing is safe around these people.

Posted by: ziptie at May 16, 2011 03:49 PM (nj7LO)

114 111, Nope, I did hear cocksucker though.

Posted by: Oldsailor's poet at May 16, 2011 03:49 PM (Jq4xH)

115 I demand to know where the penis of every anchor has been. Transparency for all.

Posted by: Cherry π at May 16, 2011 03:49 PM (+sBB4)

116 And since the Federal pension funds are funded, does that mean that stocks and bonds are going to fall, with all that funding leaving?

Thanks to "QE-Infinity!" - you will never have to worry about stock market volatility!

Posted by: Ben Bernanke at May 16, 2011 03:49 PM (SMGgV)

117 Somebody remind me again why we have a debtceiling if we always keep raising it?
I really wish someone would stand up and just tell those idiots to stop spending right fucking now! No more excuses, just get your asses in there and get started and don't come out until you've reduced spending to at least '06 levels.

Posted by: BackwardsBoy at May 16, 2011 03:49 PM (d0Tfm)

118 I believe Mooooochele Obama is a shape shifter. After I have a 6-pack she shape shifts into a Wookie !!!!!!!!!!!!

Posted by: Wallace Clevagnga at May 16, 2011 03:50 PM (48wze)

119 Is this the lemon you guys are fixated on?

Ok, if it is him, what did he do that is "courageous"?

Posted by: curious at May 16, 2011 03:50 PM (k1rwm)

120 Ace, you're talkin' crazy!!
I, for one, am stunned there is even such a thing as a federal retirement fund that actually has a substantial amount of money in it!

Posted by: Optimizer at May 16, 2011 03:50 PM (F56VB)

121 I just want to take this opportunity to mention how much I love experiencing the vaginal sex with a wide variety of female companions.

Posted by: Anderson Cooper at May 16, 2011 03:51 PM (0sdvX)

122 I demand to know where the penis of every anchor has been. Transparency for all.

Posted by: Cherry π at May 16, 2011 03:49 PM (+sBB4)
OK, fine. I banged me some of that sweet, sweet Obama booty.

Posted by: Fareed Zakaria at May 16, 2011 03:51 PM (1fanL)

123 Raid pension funds? 'Bout time you guys got serious.

Posted by: your friendly neighborhood gangster at May 16, 2011 03:51 PM (GfhFm)

124 So, to avoid that possibility, they made up yet another double-standard
"We can do this but you can't, just because" theory, called the "one-way
ratchet theory."

Direct parallel in the old Brezhnev doctrine. Once communism is established somewhere, it cannot be disestablished. That idea works for awhile, until it doesn't anymore, usually in a catastrophic fashion. Good times.

Posted by: pep at May 16, 2011 03:51 PM (GMG6W)

125 In the end it does not matter one bit "where" the money comes from. There is no 'where.' It's not like there are big piles of money sitting around in little cubby holes waiting to be spent. Money comes into existence as it is spent, just as taxes paid simply go out of existence once paid.
The real question is, what threats are being made? In this case they are making a threat against the pension benificiaries- suggesting that at some point those will go unpaid. I believe other similar threats will be made against various stakeholders in the current system.
Part of the folly of the current system is the refusal to acknowledge howthe fiat money system works - we pretend it's still hard money. The government doesn't have to "borrow" a dime. It does so to control interest rates, and to "sterilize" new money created by spending so the circulating supply is theoretically unaltered. In the end we're going to be forced to "print" more money, because the cuts will never be made. We'd be better off just doing that now - the borrowing approach isn't doing anything other than increase the overall impact of the overspending by compounding it with interest that must be paid. We'd be better off risking inflation. That automatically creates a real-time tax on everybody, shared equally (% wise) by all holders of dollars. Suddenly everyone has a skin in the game.

Posted by: Reactionary at May 16, 2011 03:52 PM (xUM1Q)

126 Mooooochele can come in my mouth anytime !

Posted by: Timmy Geitner at May 16, 2011 03:52 PM (48wze)

127 84
So are we all Irish now?


Posted by: Kratos (Ghost of Sparta) at May 16, 2011 03:40 PM (9hSKh)

Erin Go Bragh!

Posted by: NC Ref at May 16, 2011 03:52 PM (/izg2)

128 I demand to know where the penis of every anchor has been. Transparency for all.

Just no pictures, please.

Posted by: George Orwell at May 16, 2011 03:52 PM (AZGON)

129 Posted by: pep at May 16, 2011 03:51 PM (GMG6W)

tell us about it...

Posted by: John Paul II, Margret Thatcher, Ronald Raegan at May 16, 2011 03:53 PM (k1rwm)

130 The debt ceiling is artificial since the budget defines planned federal expenditures. Therefore, there is no need to actually define a debt ceiling since it has effectively been set by Congress. Of course, this might be construed as requiring that Congress actually, you know, pass a budget. But that's just a transparent detail.

Posted by: Alan Goonspan at May 16, 2011 03:53 PM (yrGif)

131 Sorry about the mutiple posts,but I'm really worried and pissed at the same time.

Posted by: ziptie at May 16, 2011 03:53 PM (nj7LO)

132 Va-gi-na. That's a funny word.

Posted by: Anderson Cooper at May 16, 2011 03:54 PM (0sdvX)

133 Things will not pleasant when I get home tonight. My husband is furious over this, as am I.

Posted by: jewells45 at May 16, 2011 03:54 PM (l/N7H)

134
They're calling that kid in CT 'courageous.' The high school senior who vandalized the high school (or some such thing) and got suspended and banned from his prom.


Posted by: Soothsayer at May 16, 2011 03:54 PM (gM4zK)

135 38
35
The "one-way ratchet theory" was mine. I'm sueing.

Posted by: Ronster at May 16, 2011 03:30 PM (CZBRL)
--Actually, Steyn has been using that metaphor for years.

George Will has been using that for 30 years.

Posted by: pep at May 16, 2011 03:54 PM (GMG6W)

136 I really wish someone would stand up and just tell those idiots to stop spending right fucking now!

Posted by: BackwardsBoy at May 16, 2011 03:49 PM (d0Tfm)
Remember all the trouble we had getting Horton's buddies to hear us? There aren't quite enough Whos screaming at the top of their lungs.Yeah, you just thought it was an allegory for the American post-war occupation of Japan.

Posted by: The Whos at May 16, 2011 03:55 PM (1fanL)

137 I am not computer savvy, so I can't link, but Judge Rolls-he was shot at the Gabby Gifford event-was ruling on the constitutionality of this issue. He was a federal judge, and some reports said that he was stopping to tell her of his decision.

Posted by: chillin the most at May 16, 2011 03:55 PM (6IV8T)

138 Erin Go Braghless!

Posted by: USS Diversity at May 16, 2011 03:55 PM (RPYjQ)

139 I really wish someone would stand up and just tell those idiots to stop spending right fucking now! No more excuses, just get your asses in there and get started and don't come out until you've reduced spending to at least '06 levels.
Posted by: BackwardsBoy at May 16, 2011 03:49 PM (d0Tfm)
Like who?
I, too, wish it could work that way. But alas - it doesn't.

Posted by: Reactionary at May 16, 2011 03:56 PM (xUM1Q)

140 Erin Go Braghless!

Posted by: USS Diversity at May 16, 2011 03:55 PM (RPYjQ)
Remind me again why I read this blog!

Posted by: Hrothgar at May 16, 2011 03:56 PM (yrGif)

141 138
Erin Go Braghless!

Posted by: USS Diversity at May 16, 2011 03:55 PM (RPYjQ)

Who is this Erin and how do I get her newsletter?

Posted by: Moron at May 16, 2011 03:57 PM (/izg2)

142 Would love to hear someone in Congress propose:

"Let's raise the debt ceiling to $500 trillion. Right now. After all, everyone says the financial world will end if we cannot raise the ceiling and therefore pay our debts, so why keep returning here to do what we are told is inevitable anyway? C'mon guys, $500 trillion or bust."

Posted by: George Orwell at May 16, 2011 03:57 PM (AZGON)

143 95

OT:

Did I miss something? Is it national coming out day or soemthing?

The CNN guy, the President of the Phoenix Suns, and now ESPN has a front pager about some former Villanova basketball player.

What the hell?

Posted by: Circa (insert Year Here) at May 16, 2011 03:44 PM (B+qrE)
Isn't this National Fapping Month? Maybe there is a link....

Posted by: Museisluse at May 16, 2011 03:57 PM (a8aqn)

144 Erin Go Braghless!

Milky flesh of the Emerald Isle.

Posted by: George Orwell at May 16, 2011 03:58 PM (AZGON)

145 Ok, if it is him, what did he do that is "courageous"?

It's more "fabulous" than "courageous".

Posted by: Waterhouse at May 16, 2011 03:58 PM (fsGgs)

146 "Grant Hill is straight, and Don Lemon is gay, and yet the homophobic
response to a straight black man's expression of support for the LGBT
community shows just why Lemon's decision to come out is so timely and
important." link, it's huff poo poo but maybe then don lemon will stop posting so much about lemons

Posted by: curious at May 16, 2011 03:58 PM (k1rwm)

147 Thanks to "QE-Infinity!" - you will never have to worry about stock market volatility!
Posted by: Ben Bernanke at May 16, 2011 03:49 PM (SMGgV)

The paper and cotton producers are ecstatic with the expectation of increased production of new paper money.

Posted by: Soona at May 16, 2011 03:58 PM (JIDys)

148 Isn't this National Fapping Month?

That's every month at AOS.

Posted by: George Orwell at May 16, 2011 03:58 PM (AZGON)

149 As a federal employee who contributes to a retirement fund, I am fully confident that these jackbooted weasels will replace every penny.

Sure. Good Lord, I'll be eating cat food. And not the good stuff....the generic crap.

Posted by: Cheri at May 16, 2011 04:00 PM (oiNtH)

150 You know who is going to get blamed if the pensions are raided right? It's going to be all on Boehner's head, it will be all his fault cause he was so strident about spending. That's the way the narrative is being crafted at this very moment.

Posted by: curious at May 16, 2011 04:00 PM (k1rwm)

151 "Suddenly everyone has a skin in the game."

Yep. Our system is fucked because of the fact that the all citizens do not share equally in the support of the system. A flat tax would start to fix that. Doing away with racially gerrimandered districts would also help. As long as a demographically insignificant minoritycan be sheltered from economic reality while being cosseted and given disproportionate non-competitive representation, then the concept of equality flys out the window. For some reason I don't see our post-racial President transforming these inequities for the good of all. I wonder why?

Posted by: Sub-tard Goober at May 16, 2011 04:01 PM (Q5+Og)

152 So are we all Irish now?
Posted by: Kratos (Ghost of Sparta) at May 16, 2011 03:40 PM (9hSKh)

Erin Go Bragh!
Posted by: NC Ref at May 16, 2011 03:52 PM (/izg2)
Oy und be gattin' meh a point yeh wee coont!

Posted by: ErikO'W at May 16, 2011 04:01 PM (HZMAP)

153 Would love to hear someone in Congress propose: "Let's raise the debt ceiling to $500 trillion. Right now. After all, everyone says the financial world will end if we cannot raise the ceiling and therefore pay our debts, so why keep returning here to do what we are told is inevitable anyway? C'mon guys, $500 trillion or bust."
Posted by: George Orwell at May 16, 2011 03:57 PM (AZGON)
Actually, I'd like to see this, too. The debt ceiling is just a foolish, arbitrary number that doesn't really mean a damn thing. I would also prefer that we stopped this nonsense about "borrowing" money when we have no need to do so. I don't think it's the government's job to provide people with a savings vehicle.

Posted by: Reactionary at May 16, 2011 04:01 PM (xUM1Q)

154 Sure. Good Lord, I'll be eating cat food. And not the good stuff....the generic crap.
Oh, I feel your pain. I really do.
Because I fully expect to be royally screwed right as I retire as a Fed.

Posted by: Sean Bannion at May 16, 2011 04:01 PM (sbV1u)

155 Isn't this National Fapping Month?

That's Ramadan. So, which are bigger, the callouses on Muslims' foreheads, or the callouses on their foreskins?

Posted by: FUBAR, Cultural Imperialist at May 16, 2011 04:01 PM (1fanL)

156 Am I missing something here. The debt ceiling puts a cap on borrowing... so they borrowed from pension funds?

Posted by: Passably Affable at May 16, 2011 04:02 PM (2Ukpz)

157 Posted by: Passably Affable at May 16, 2011 04:02 PM (2Ukpz)

maybe the chinese won't lend to us anymore.

Posted by: curious at May 16, 2011 04:02 PM (k1rwm)

158 one word: shady Posted by: Soothsayer

Indeed. A good meme to start using; Shady Scheme.

Posted by: toby928™ at May 16, 2011 04:02 PM (GTbGH)

159 The scary thing is that it IS only the first step--I can hardly wait to find out what the next step will be.
Posted by: Hrothgar at May 16, 2011 03:29 PM (yrGif)
Appropriating and nationalizing private retirement accounts. Say goodbye to your 401K.....as if you weren't losing it anyway.

Posted by: beedubya at May 16, 2011 04:03 PM (AnTyA)

160 abc news is really really really pushing mittens, like really. Using "well he has the most money" as the reason.

ugh

Posted by: curious at May 16, 2011 04:03 PM (k1rwm)

161 Am I missing something here. The debt ceiling puts a cap on borrowing... so they borrowed from pension funds?

That is my whole point... this is all fiction. Ceilings that aren't really ceilings, caps that aren't caps. Government can cook its own books and will do so no matter what anyone says to the contrary.

Posted by: George Orwell at May 16, 2011 04:04 PM (AZGON)

162 When are they knocking on Beck's door to ask for his gold?

Posted by: curious at May 16, 2011 04:04 PM (k1rwm)

163 ndeed. A good meme to start using; Shady Scheme.

President Shady Scheme. I like it.

Posted by: George Orwell at May 16, 2011 04:04 PM (AZGON)

164 Posted by: Sub-tard Goober at May 16, 2011 04:01 PM (Q5+Og)
Pretty good comment for a sub-tard. But you forget - all animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others.

Posted by: Reactionary at May 16, 2011 04:05 PM (xUM1Q)

165 I don't like this shady scheme. -47 in the last hour of trading.

Posted by: DJIA at May 16, 2011 04:05 PM (GTbGH)

166 Guys, this "raiding the pension funds" is just an accounting trick. The civil service pension fund holds nothing but govt. IOUs anyway, in the form of "special", non-marketable govt account series (GAS) Treasury bonds. This falls under the "intragovernmental" debt component of the total public debt. The other component is the "debt held by the public".
The latter represents real money borrowed from the bond market, real money that changes hands. The trick is to lower the intragov debt by the same amount you raise the other to keep the sum from increasing over the limit.
Here's the trick. Treasury redeems the GAS bonds with real money borrowed. That lowers the intragov by the same amount the debt held by the public increases. Net zero change in total public debt.
Now, the pension fund then takes that money and gives it back to Treasury, "reloaning" it. This latter "loan" *does not count toward the debt limit*.
They are merely replacing one type of IOU that counts toward the debt limit for one that does not.
These trust funds are not real and never have been -- they are just accounting gimicks that let Treasury spend the excess revenue slated for those trust funds.

Posted by: publius at May 16, 2011 04:05 PM (VVB18)

167 Oh, I feel your pain. I really do.
Because I fully expect to be royally screwed right as I retire as a Fed.
Yes - the same time that social security and medicare are bust. Tent cities - coming to a town near you!

Posted by: Cheri at May 16, 2011 04:06 PM (oiNtH)

168 for conservatives and America, is to just spend less, of course

And yet, it was Republican administrations who exploded the debt. As I recall, Clinton left Bush with the surplus. Oh well.

I suppose if you're a knucklehead you just have to forget everything and make shit up as you go along

Posted by: Lucifer, John Ashcroft's personal savior at May 16, 2011 04:06 PM (BHSVg)

169 They're calling that kid in CT 'courageous.' The
high school senior who vandalized the high school (or some such thing)
and got suspended and banned from his prom.

Posted by: Soothsayer at May 16, 2011 03:54 PM (gM4zK)
He didn't vandalize the high school. He put up a big sign at night asking someone to prom so she would see it in the morning pulling into school. It was a stupid suspension.

Posted by: Tami at May 16, 2011 04:06 PM (VuLos)

170 publius, that makes me feel so much better..

Posted by: Ben at May 16, 2011 04:08 PM (wuv1c)

171 And yet, it was Republican administrations who exploded the debt.

In the 12 years of Republican Congress, average annual deficit: $104 billion

Erg's got nuthin.

Posted by: toby928™ at May 16, 2011 04:08 PM (GTbGH)

172 How many flavors of gruel are there?

Posted by: Oldsailor's poet at May 16, 2011 04:08 PM (Jq4xH)

173 TIMMEH!

Posted by: turbo tax tim at May 16, 2011 04:09 PM (Y1DZt)

174 Erg's got nuthin.
Never stopped him before.

Posted by: Sean Bannion at May 16, 2011 04:09 PM (sbV1u)

175 As a federal employee who contributes to a retirement fund, I am fully confident that these jackbooted weasels will replace every penny. Sure. Good Lord, I'll be eating cat food. And not the good stuff....the generic crap.
Cheri, I'll put a bowl of milk outside on my back porch every night to help supplement your diet.

Posted by: Ben at May 16, 2011 04:09 PM (wuv1c)

176
Because: ratchet.

This is were Obama might have screwed up. He went too far, too fast. If he had just continued incremental left-ward changes he could have moved the US a whole lot further left and kept it that way. But he got all radical and made BIG changes and prompted a counter-revolution (tea-party) that possibly could undo stuff that was thought to be undoable.

It's not a sure thing but it's on the table now in a way that was thought non-sensical in 2005.

Posted by: Comrade Arthur at May 16, 2011 04:09 PM (KE+Ya)

177 I feel as though whoever said both huck and the donald didn't want to oversee the collapse of our economy might be right.

Posted by: curious at May 16, 2011 04:09 PM (k1rwm)

178 How many flavors of gruel are there?

Gruel? You wish. It's Crusty Brand Imitation Gruel for you. 4 out of 5 orphans can't tell the difference.

Posted by: toby928™ at May 16, 2011 04:10 PM (GTbGH)

179 Guys, this "raiding the pension funds" is just an accounting trick. The civil service pension fund holds nothing but govt. IOUs anyway
Same thing with Social Security.
We're fucked....screwed.....boned...
Can we start using the "R" word yet?

Posted by: beedubya at May 16, 2011 04:10 PM (AnTyA)

180 How many flavors of gruel are there?Gruel? You wish. It's Crusty Brand Imitation Gruel for you. 4 out of 5 orphans can't tell the difference
Every tenth box has a rusty metal Krusty-O

Posted by: Ben at May 16, 2011 04:10 PM (wuv1c)

181
is it shady or shadey?

Anyway...

President Cockamamie Shady Scheme

Posted by: Soothsayer at May 16, 2011 04:10 PM (gM4zK)

182 The Federal government is tapped out ahead of schedule AND the Treasury is grabbing money from public pensions?

Heh. And the sheeple wonder why they had to announce Bin Laden's death two weeks ago. Bread and Circuses....

Posted by: Olliander at May 16, 2011 04:11 PM (6uiF7)

183 Guys, this "raiding the pension funds" is just an accounting trick. The civil service pension fund holds nothing but govt. IOUs anyway
Same thing with Social Security.
We're fucked....screwed.....boned...
Can we start using the "R" word yet?
Reanimation?
No, no, It's too early to release the zombies. That will come all in due time

Posted by: Ben at May 16, 2011 04:11 PM (wuv1c)

184 hey why not create a giant zombie bank and move the federal debt into there?

Posted by: the economists! at May 16, 2011 04:11 PM (k1rwm)

185 168 for conservatives and America, is to just spend less, of courseAnd yet, it was Republican administrations who exploded the debt. As I recall, Clinton left Bush with the surplus. Oh well.
As I recall Clinton left Bush with CRA and a ballooning real estate market based on 0% equity and a nice calling card on 9/11 for his impetuous wiener explosion on an intern's blue dress. But I could be wrong, but I'm not.

Posted by: Sub-tard Goober at May 16, 2011 04:12 PM (Q5+Og)

186 Get your wheelbarrow wallets ready.

Posted by: toby928™ at May 16, 2011 04:12 PM (GTbGH)

187 Bush caused me, erg?

Posted by: The federal deficit in February 2011 was $223 billion, the largest single-month deficit for any gove at May 16, 2011 04:13 PM (Y1DZt)

188 And yet, it was Republican administrations who exploded the debt.

I love how eggamoobymuffin refuses to acknowledge any budget from 2007 forward.

Posted by: Waterhouse at May 16, 2011 04:14 PM (fsGgs)

189 And yet, it was Republican administrations who exploded the debt. As I recall, Clinton left Bush with the surplus. Oh well.I suppose if you're a knucklehead you just have to forget everything and make shit up as you go along

Posted by: Lucifer, John Ashcroft's personal savior at May 16, 2011 04:06 PM (BHSVg)
Oh I see. You think Presidents pass budgets.

Posted by: FUBAR, Cultural Imperialist at May 16, 2011 04:14 PM (1fanL)

190 You know there have been a lot of articles that show that Clinton's surplus was nothing but clever number manipulating and smoke and mirrors. Maybe before you make those kinds of statements you should read one of those articles, not from the MSM, but the scholarly ones in a college library where the MBA's study them.

Posted by: the economists! at May 16, 2011 04:14 PM (k1rwm)

191 May I have your attention please?

Will the real Slim Shady please stand up?

Posted by: Cherry π at May 16, 2011 04:15 PM (+sBB4)

192 Oh I see. You think Presidents pass budgets.
He's a smart one, isn't he?
Do you think they get gene therapy to have the gene removed that allows them to recognize double standards?

Posted by: Sean Bannion at May 16, 2011 04:15 PM (sbV1u)

193 We're all Irish today? In that case, I need to go grab my whiskey in order to Irish up my coffee.

Posted by: Brandon In Baton Rouge at May 16, 2011 04:16 PM (UvFnc)

194 But he got all radical and made BIG changes and prompted a counter-revolution (tea-party) that possibly could undo stuff that was thought to be undoable.
Not so sure about that. We have nothing but a political class filled useless, spineless kleptocrat fucks who care only about being re-elected and getting theirs...and passing laws to ensure that while the rest of us are fucked.
I really have what little faithI had in our government. We are now a banana republic.
We don't have a functioning republic any more. The country club GOP let the left run roughshod, with the help of the media,by making deals to keep them fat and happy.
Fuck it all. It's time to burn it down.

Posted by: beedubya at May 16, 2011 04:17 PM (AnTyA)

195 Anyone listening to this debate on Hannity? Wow they are really pushing the narrative of "the republicans are in disarray" hard.

Posted by: the economists! at May 16, 2011 04:17 PM (k1rwm)

196 This has been talked about for a while- except everyone has dismissed it as "fringe." There was even a story on it on the Market Ticker last October.

Next step is to "confiscate" "private pensions."


Posted by: shibumi at May 16, 2011 04:17 PM (OKZrE)

197 I really have what little faithI had in our government. We are now a banana republic.
Posted by: beedubya at May 16, 2011 04:17 PM (AnTyA)


I told you that three years ago and all you do is ignore me...

Posted by: mike bloomberg, graduation speaker extraordinaire at May 16, 2011 04:19 PM (k1rwm)

198 A quick check reveals that the Republican Congress add 4.6T to the debt in 12 years. Nancy added 4.5T that in just 3.5 years.

Posted by: toby928™ at May 16, 2011 04:20 PM (GTbGH)

199 Posted by: shibumi at May 16, 2011 04:17 PM (OKZrE)

well, with every thing so tightly censored, where else can someone say something like that but on conspiracy sites or little know financial sites or just on Zero Hedge repeatedly over the last year in the comments...

Posted by: mike bloomberg, graduation speaker extraordinaire at May 16, 2011 04:20 PM (k1rwm)

200 186 Get your wheelbarrow wallets ready.
Posted by: toby928™ at May 16, 2011 04:12 PM (GTbGH)
Hobo skin wallets are excellent! Lots of stretch and very durable.

Posted by: Turd Ferguson at May 16, 2011 04:21 PM (6yyVB)

201 We're closer to the fate of the European Union than we thought. They preach unity and progressivism, and now are starting to implement border controls. They preach common economic goals, but several nations are failing in a spectacular fashion. And not unlike SS and Medicare, these failures were predicted. All of them are suffereing, to some degree, of the asinine mentality of living for today, and burning all prospects for a future; economically, socially and demographically

Posted by: Blue Hen at May 16, 2011 04:21 PM (Gzv/o)

202 Those of you who think Federal pension plans are "super generous": not since the end of CSRS, over 20 years ago. FERS depends heavily on the TSP fund, the "401k" where Federal employees can contribute to save for retirement, since the golden parachutes were discontinued long ago. Now, I don't mind the fact that I've paid into Social Security and will not see one thin dime; I don't mind because of my grandparents, and now my parents. But I draw the line at the Boomers, who suck the life out of entitlement programs by dint of sheer volume. And by God, if I end up with a brass pin and a "gee we're sorry we took all your money" at the end of the day, there will be hell to pay.

Posted by: Kerry at May 16, 2011 04:22 PM (a/VXa)

203 Remember in 2008 when Democrats were accusing Bush and the Republicans of deliberately making things terrible just so Obama and the Democrats wouldn't be able to fix them, so that in 2012 Republicans could blame the Democrats for how terrible things are?

Thinking ahead to 2016, remember how the Democrats always accuse Republicans of what they themselves are guilty of?

Posted by: guy giving the dems too much credit at May 16, 2011 04:22 PM (GfhFm)

204 Eating me already.

Posted by: the seed corn at May 16, 2011 04:22 PM (GTbGH)

205 I really have what little faithI had in our government. We are now a banana republic.Posted by: beedubya at May 16, 2011 04:17 PM (AnTyA) I told you that three years ago and all you do is ignore me...
Posted by: mike bloomberg, graduation speaker extraordinaire at May 16, 2011 04:19 PM (k1rwm)

Your solution was to viilify business owners and ban trans fats. Fuck off Mike.

Posted by: Blue Hen at May 16, 2011 04:23 PM (Gzv/o)

206 189 And yet, it was Republican administrations who exploded the debt. As I recall, Clinton left Bush with the surplus. Oh well.I suppose if you're a knucklehead you just have to forget everything and make shit up as you go along
Posted by: Lucifer, John Ashcroft's personal savior at May 16, 2011 04:06 PM (BHSVg)
Oh I see. You think Presidents pass budgets.
Posted by: FUBAR, Cultural Imperialist at May 16, 2011 04:14 PM (1fanL) ____________________
This.
It's amazing how many liberals/ leftists/ communists/ Democrats/ progressives / whatever else they call themselves seem unaware of the Constitution, or how the government functions. Or at least, used to function, and God willing, one day will again function.

Posted by: Jay Guevara at May 16, 2011 04:23 PM (IdCuw)

207 Those of you who think Federal pension plans are
"super generous": not since the end of CSRS, over 20 years ago.

Posted by: Kerry at May 16, 2011 04:22 PM (a/VXa)
Yeah, The Man is always sticking it to...The...um...Man.

Posted by: FUBAR, Truther to Power at May 16, 2011 04:23 PM (1fanL)

208 Part of the folly of the current system is the refusal to acknowledge howthe fiat money system works - we pretend it's still hard money.
It's been said before, but since our money has no actual basis in reality why not just let Big Ben and TurboTax Tim printall the money we need and have a balanced budget every year? Why do they even need to talk about taxes or debt or any such thing, just print the money and we can all pretend that it actually has some real value. It's what we do right now.

Posted by: Ghost of Lee Atwater at May 16, 2011 04:23 PM (JxMoP)

209 This has been talked about for a while- except everyone has dismissed it as "fringe." There was even a story on it on the Market Ticker last October.Next step is to "confiscate" "private pensions."
Posted by: shibumi at May 16, 2011 04:17 PM (OKZrE)
I'm not dismissing it as fringe. I've heard this since 2008.
Right after McCain and the media installed Petey in the WH, I was ina Delta lounge in Atlanta. I had a very frightening conversation with a man who started a financial house whose name you would recognize where he told me that even back then they considered this a possibility and were working on ways toposition themselves against it.

Posted by: beedubya at May 16, 2011 04:24 PM (AnTyA)

210 This.
It's amazing how many liberals/ leftists/ communists/ Democrats/ progressives / whatever else they call themselves seem unaware of the Constitution, or how the government functions. Or at least, used to function, and God willing, one day will again function.
Posted by: Jay Guevara
You think that you have troubles? They used me, quoted me, took me to fancy parties, and then tossed me aside.

Posted by: The debt clock at May 16, 2011 04:25 PM (Gzv/o)

211
And BTW, Treasury has the legal authority to do this "IOU swap" trick with only about $140B (they can't do with the entirety of the pension funds, nor can they do it with other trust funds according to the law). There's probably some other tricks clever Treasury lawyers can come up that have the same effect. From what I gather the drop-dead date is July 8th. At that point, they'll run out of tricks.
But they can always change the law to allow more tricks, of course. One thing that is talked about it just to declare that the intragov debt doesn't count toward the limit and only the debt held by the public component does. That would immediately free up all $4.65T held in all the trust funds.
This would be something the Repubs might do to allow them to raise the limit without raising it.

Posted by: publius at May 16, 2011 04:29 PM (VVB18)

212 Cheri, I'll put a bowl of milk outside on my back porch every night to help supplement your diet.
You are too kind...purrrrr

Posted by: Cheri at May 16, 2011 04:29 PM (oiNtH)

213 When you have a White House who knows they can say something like this with impunity..
“I think there are discussions, even about transparency and developing rules about transparency that we need to be able to have quietly and behind closed doors.” – Daniel Gordon, White House staff
...they know they can get away with anything.

Posted by: beedubya at May 16, 2011 04:29 PM (AnTyA)

214 Posted by: George Orwell at May 16, 2011 03:34 PM (AZGON)


Not only that, but you hear from liberals how pensions are legally inviolable, etc, yet here they are doing what they say is unpossible.

Posted by: KG at May 16, 2011 04:30 PM (4L0zr)

215 The problem with the deficit, the debt, and the debt limit is that for the past 100 years we have been going full 'tard on it every year. Applying the law of "holes" it is like this.

We have Democrats that wish to dig with mega-steam shovels like they use in the open pit copper mines of Colorado.

We have Republicans that want to dig with a backhoe.

Sometime ago they passed a law that limited the depth of the hole. Just about every year since then they increase the maximum depth.

Now that there is a real fight over the depth the liars in office now want to use some kind of accounting lie to say it really isn't getting any deeper even though we continue to dig with that mega-steam shovel.

Oh, and any attempt to get rid of the digging at all is treated with contempt and scorn by the leaders of both Parties.

Posted by: Vic at May 16, 2011 04:30 PM (M9Ie6)

216 Posted by: publius at May 16, 2011 04:05 PM (VVB1

thanks for confirming my suspicion... one titanic accounting gimmick.

Sheesh.

Posted by: George Orwell at May 16, 2011 04:34 PM (AZGON)

217 Does this debt ceiling make me look fat?

Posted by: The US Treasury at May 16, 2011 04:36 PM (AZGON)

218 Isn't this basically the exact massive financial crime that Will Ferrell and Marky Mark just barely keep from happening in The Other Guys?

Posted by: Paul Kroenke at May 16, 2011 04:38 PM (VF+Fe)

219 It's amazing how many liberals/ leftists/ communists/ Democrats/ progressives / whatever else they call themselves seem unaware of the Constitution, or how the government functions. Or at least, used to function, and God willing, one day will again function. Posted by: Jay Guevara at May 16, 2011 04:23 PM (IdCuw)
Sadly, it's not just the left that thinks the President controls budgets.I've pretty much given up trying to correct people on that because no one ever listens.It's like watching people file a class-action suit against the tooth fairy.

Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith at May 16, 2011 04:43 PM (bxiXv)

220 Re 217: The thing to appeciate is that all the "trust funds", SS and everything are just one titantic accounting trick. The only source of funding for them are Uncle's ability to tax and borrow real money from the bond market. These "trust funds" are nothing but Bernie Madoff write large in trillions, not mere billions.
And analogy is this: You've got a sorry Uncle, call him Uncle Sam. He blows money on beer and hookers and the like all the time. His poor wife, call her Auntie Social Security/Medicare makes her own money (payroll taxes). She tries to care for the family properly, buying the food and necessities out of her paycheck. But (until 2010) she was making more than the she was spending.
Being repsonsible, she wants to save the money for a rainy day. So Uncle says, hey why don't you invest that money with me. She trusts him and gives in the money. He gives her IOUs in return. He even pays her interest on the IOUs, in the form of yet more IOUs (this is absolutely true -- interest payments to the trust funds are paid in yet more special GAS Treasury bonds, no joke).
He of course takes that money and blows it. But even then, he's still spending more than he's taking in and has to run up the credit card (this is the debt held by the public, the real money borrowed).
Now, when Auntie runs out of money and needs to cash in those IOUs, where's she going to get it? Only from Uncle. And where's he going to get the money? Well..... he can put it on the credit card, if they'll let him.
That is what the "trust funds" are.

Posted by: publius at May 16, 2011 04:47 PM (VVB18)

221 Haven't seen anyone predicting it? Well I have been right here on this vey blog for weeks. I said on Saturday we were going to hit the limit this week.

But what do I know, I'm just the guy who said Trump never really wanted to be Prsident.

Posted by: JackStraw at May 16, 2011 04:57 PM (2+ZFl)

222 Help me Barack...help me...I am melting from exceeding the debt ceiling..........Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh !!!!!!!!!!

Posted by: Tiny Teeny Timmy Geitner at May 16, 2011 05:05 PM (48wze)

223 OT: Did I miss something? Is it national coming out day or soemthing?
First!

Posted by: Log Cabin at May 16, 2011 05:08 PM (Ug1Tl)

224
Look, I just had to raid your college fund. Just to pay a few bills that piled up over the holidays. I'll put it back just as soon as the Super Bow is over. I got a great tip. Dallas is going to cream the Steelers by at 21. You can take it to the bank.

Posted by: Dad during Christmas 1978 at May 16, 2011 05:10 PM (Xv7f/)

225 When you have a White House who knows they can say something like this with impunity..
“I think there are discussions, even about transparency and
developing rules about transparency that we need to be able to have
quietly and behind closed doors.” – Daniel Gordon, White House staff
...they know they can get away with anything.

Posted by: beedubya at May 16, 2011 04:29 PM
They are beyond embarrassment or even caring. Here's my (current) favorite. This was in Politico on March 30. It is not from The Onion, hard as that is to believe:


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“President Obama finally and
quietly accepted his “transparency” award from the open government community
this week — in a closed, undisclosed meeting at the White House on Monday…
...Obama met quietly in the Oval Office with Gary Bass of OMB Watch, Tom
Blanton of the National Security Archive, Danielle Brian of the Project
on Government Oversight, Lucy Dalglish of the Reporters Committee for
Freedom of the Press, and Patrice McDermott of OpenTheGovernment.org,
without disclosing the meeting on his public schedule or letting
photographers or print reporters into the room...”






Posted by: USS Nixon at May 16, 2011 05:19 PM (Xv7f/)

226 Hey wait a second.
I'm not the sharpest knife in the drawer, I have a question.
Did Turbo-tax Timmy just raid the pension funds of the military?

Posted by: booter at May 16, 2011 05:20 PM (w43sl)

227
Sooo... they borrow from an existing account, which they have to pay back...
1. How is that LEGAL? The money was spent, by law... how does the Administration override the spending bills which put this money in place...
and
2. How does borrowing money you have to pay back NOT equal debt? The same debt that only CONGRESS can authorize? (at least according to that antique and outdated document, the Constitution...).

Posted by: Snootie Theatre Person at May 16, 2011 05:32 PM (NtXW4)

228
and....
3. Profit?

Posted by: Snootie Theatre Person at May 16, 2011 05:32 PM (NtXW4)

229 Does anyone here understand this at all???

Back when social security was going bankrupt and rather than put it on a more solid footing they simply patched it enough so it would not go bankrupt on their watch (this includes Republicans, lot of blame to spread around here), I knew then that there is absolutely no resolve in our political class to fix this debt problem. Even some prominent Republicans were insulting those calling for a balanced budget amendment (a past era's equivalent of the Tea Party).

Now Boehner has succumbed to Beltway Disease (and I'm not real sure he was ever free of the virus); he's learned the routine -- say the right words but then do essentially nothing. You think he's going to risk his fat pension and future political prospects for you morons???

Is it possible the Democrats want the US to go bankrupt? Unless all of these idiots flunked basic math, they have to know this cannot continue forever -- and, quite frankly, the probability of a crash because of this unsustainable debt load is approaching 100% -- so what's their game? I know modern liberals live in a cloud but surely they have to know this. If I were a liberal I'd be more than a little frightened that a crash could bring the end to my feverish dreams of Kindly Big Brother. Are they hoping the economic distress will allow them to raise taxes or even do away with the inflation indexing Reagan insisted on during his term?

I've yet to see a satisfactory explanation for this. Unless Democrats truly are that blind, they know what's going on but seem to want the worst to happen. That would indicate they think they will gain from the disaster somehow.

The GOP was blamed for the Great Depression and Democrats benefited from that, unfairly to a large degree, but is this perhaps what the Democrats hope to accomplish? They do seem to have the mass media in their pockets.

(This is not an attempt to start another conspiracy theory -- it truly does not make sense to me)



Posted by: Full Moon at May 16, 2011 05:58 PM (m75CK)

230 Treasury Secretary Timothy F. Geithner has warned for months that the
government would soon hit the $14.3 trillion debt ceiling — a legal
limit on how much it can borrow.

And all the while in the background, a hundred foot tall neon sign has been flashing the words: STOP SPENDING.

Posted by: Blacque Jacques Shellacque at May 16, 2011 06:27 PM (1rHeD)

231 So, Ryan's plan is "right wing social engineering" and radical because it proposes to make changes in medicare, an entitlement, for those who are not yet receiving benefits without having any effects on those currently collecting.

But this plan, which affects the pensions of those who are already "entitled" to them, taking a bridge too far where Ryan feared to tread, is the plan our government comes up with.

This, without a doubt, is the worst political class in our nation's history and might well be the last.

Posted by: Alex #11 at May 16, 2011 07:29 PM (J7BNt)

232


"Or we could just spend less, but of course that's not even a possibility."


You missed it: the sickening re-framing of the issue. "Spending less" is being turned into "defaulting on some of our obligations." Get that? Spending less is "defaulting." If we ever cut spending, we've "defaulted." Lord have mercy on us, we're doomed.

Posted by: sayyid412 at May 16, 2011 08:49 PM (TktQM)

233 Uh, while this article blames Democrats for spending federal employee pension funds, remember that Republicans are in charge of the money. They already begun selling off America's assets, our infrastructure, mineral rights, water supply, gas, oil, timber, and will not be satisfied until we are strip-mined of every last dollar and every square inch of the country is corporate owned. If you like this style of country, you will love Haiti and Somalia....no government, all corporate blood-suckers stealing the wealth for the wealthy.
Probably won't register with the loyalists until all your pensions evaporate and we are all living under bridges....

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Posted by: romains at May 17, 2011 01:10 AM (sySa+)

235 Well, that's another nail in the political coffin of Obama. What's he going to do next? Raid active duty TSP savings or tap our personal credit cards for a cash advance?

Posted by: John at May 17, 2011 08:31 PM (lU+6B)

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Posted by: Alexandra Menson at June 27, 2011 04:54 AM (Tbpju)






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