Obama's Not A Socialist, His Administration Is Just Threatening To Implement "Command And Control" Policies

See you stupid wingnuts, calling Obama a socialist is waaaayyyyy out of bounds. Besides He's only doing it to save the planet and that includes you idiots too.

But while administration officials have long said they prefer Congress take action on climate change, the economic official who spoke with reporters Tuesday night made clear that the EPA will not wait and is prepared to act on its own.

And it won't be pretty.

"If you don't pass this legislation, then ... the EPA is going to have to regulate in this area," the official said. "And it is not going to be able to regulate on a market-based way, so it's going to have to regulate in a command-and-control way, which will probably generate even more uncertainty."

Climate change legislation that passed the House is stuck in the Senate, but the EPA finding Monday was seen as a boost to the U.S. delegation in Denmark trying to convince other countries that Washington is capable of taking action to follow through with any global commitments.

The economic official explained that congressional action could be better for the economy, since it would provide "compensation" for higher energy prices, especially for small businesses dealing with those higher energy costs. Otherwise, the official warned that the kind of "uncertainty" generated by unilateral EPA action would be a huge "deterrent to investment," in an economy already desperate for jobs.

See, they'd prefer to destroy the economy through democratic means but if that doesn't happen, we'll they'll just be forced to take "command and control" actions.

Don't you feel better?

Between this, health care and unprecedented levels of debt and spending we are simply witnessing an attempt to destroy the United States as we know it. I really hate the paranoid style of politics but what else is it when you are looking at such massive government takeover and interference with the basic institutions and freedoms this country is built on?

It seems people, not just conservatives and not even the tea party folks, are waking up to this and saying No. Right now, we're simply fighting delaying actions in an attempt to stop the most dangerous of this garbage until the midterms next year.

Hold the line! Hold the line!

I'm really glad that whoever this administration official is they are so tone deaf. "Command and control" is not a focused group phrase designed to blur the real intention of the regulations. It's the kind of phrase that will make the hair stand up on the back of the necks of ordinary Americans who will be frightened by such talk. Of course, the apparatchiks in the Obamastream Media will simply refuse to report it but enough people will hear it.

Posted by: DrewM. at 01:37 PM



Comments

1 Only racists have a problem with "command and control" economic policy.

Posted by: Charles Johnson at December 09, 2009 01:41 PM (IhQuA)

2 Anyone still not think we're at war with our own government?

Posted by: Unclefacts, Summoner of Things, Stuff, and Other Things at December 09, 2009 01:41 PM (erIg9)

3 This was all pretty clear before the election; remember when Janet Napolitano let it slip in an interview that thingswould improve "under Obama's rule"?

Posted by: Average Jen at December 09, 2009 01:42 PM (2dZ+6)

4 Drew, you're welcome. I posted a link to this in the other thread.

By the way, when was the following written:

The Arctic seems to be warming up. Reports fromfishermen, seal hunters, and explorers who sail the seasabout Sitzbergen and the eastern Arctic, all point toa radical change in climatic conditions, and hitherto unheard-of high temperatures in that part of the earth'ssurface

Posted by: Hedgehog at December 09, 2009 01:44 PM (oQIfB)

5 I hope he does it, I hope he does. I can't wait until there's a Republican House, the EPA puts out a big pile of harsh restrictions, and then finds out that their agency funding for the coming year is *Zero*.

Posted by: the ref at December 09, 2009 01:44 PM (T1boi)

6 "what else is it when you are looking at such massive government takeover
and interference with the basic institutions and freedoms this country
is built on"

shit, Obama administration, when you've lost drew to my side of the voter pool, you're getting a little out on a limb.

Ammo and MREs. Autonomous regional governments. That's what I say.


Posted by: moron # 54135 at December 09, 2009 01:44 PM (p1s9n)

7
It's no wonder more and more people are starting to miss Bush.Originally I thought it would take eight to twelve years to rehabilitate GWB's image.But Obama has managed to get it done in eleven months.

Posted by: bulwark at December 09, 2009 01:44 PM (jvrmc)

8 I'm not sure there will be elections in 2010.

Posted by: Bugler at December 09, 2009 01:45 PM (YCVBL)

9 Hold the line? No a good offense is a good defense. Start questioning the EPA on penalties and enforcement and demand answers, not vague dreamy statements. Then start letting business and individuals know what will happen to them and how it will effect them.

Posted by: Picric at December 09, 2009 01:46 PM (oKOn9)

10 If the EPA wants to play chicken with Congress, all they need do is pass 1 page of legislation abolishing the EPA. However, if a Democrat Congress is not playing along with the schemes of a Democrat President, then an EPA he controls can do stuff like this to create phony-baloney political cover to the Congressmen who vote for this turkey.

If some Congresscritter says, "EPA forced me to vote for Cap and Tax," the reply should be, "Didn't you renew EPA's budget?"


Posted by: Steve Poling at December 09, 2009 01:46 PM (nBrFn)

11 Between this, health care and unprecedented levels of debt and spending we are simply witnessing an attempt to destroy the United States as we know it.
And anyone with a brain understood that this was the intention of The Precedent way back in the campaign. This is the third wold's revenge on the US come to life. And America invited the slime in to do it.
This isn't really about socialism. It's about revenge and nihilism, helped along by the most amazing collection of useful idiots on the Hill in our history.
Oh well. All good things, like the US, must come to an end. After secession, things will finaly be straightened out and the leftist scum will be left to strangle themselves to death in the old US.

Posted by: progressoverpeace at December 09, 2009 01:47 PM (A46hP)

12 Hedgehog


1930?

Posted by: bulwark at December 09, 2009 01:47 PM (jvrmc)

13 What we need to have is some Republican members of Congress openly talk about putting some of these lefties on trial for treason if they pass this crap or implement it through dictat.
Many of these career beuracrats think they are untouchable. We put a few people on trial for treason and then hang them it should shape the rest up. Maybe we should add a few lefty judges and politicians to.

Posted by: southdakotaboy at December 09, 2009 01:47 PM (TC4J/)

14 "If you don't pass this legislation, then ... the EPA is going to have
to regulate in this area," the official said. "And it is not going to
be able to regulate on a market-based way, so it's going to have to
regulate in a command-and-control way, which will probably generate
even more uncertainty."

Anyone else see this as someone making a threat?

Posted by: Rickshaw Jack at December 09, 2009 01:48 PM (nE6Eu)

15 I tell you, my vote goes to the most viable candidate that promises government will be smaller on the day he leaves.

Posted by: nickless at December 09, 2009 01:49 PM (MMC8r)

16 The strategy of forcing political change through orchestrated crisis.
The "Cloward-Piven Strategy" seeks to hasten the fall of capitalism by
overloading the government bureaucracy with a flood of impossible
demands, thus pushing society into crisis and economic collapse.
Cloward and Piven were inspired by radical organizer [and Hillary Clinton mentor] Saul Alinsky:
"Make the enemy live up to their (sic) own book of rules," Alinsky wrote in his 1989 book Rules for Radicals.When
pressed to honor every word of every law and statute, every
Judeo-Christian moral tenet, and every implicit promise of the liberal
social contract, human agencies inevitably fall short. The system's
failure to "live up" to its rule book can then be used to discredit it
altogether, and to replace the capitalist "rulebook" with a socialist
one.

Posted by: Piven at December 09, 2009 01:49 PM (AQj/2)

17 Obama: [Soros has just offeredObama a briefcase full of money to kill the US economy] Keep your money. You just get that sucker to the designated place at the designated time, and I will gladly designate his ass... for dismemberment! Soros: Yeah! Hey! Well, whatever! Any way you want to do it. It'll certainly be my pleasure, Mr. Obama.

A shinypenny for who can figure out what movie that is from.

Posted by: Mr. Pink at December 09, 2009 01:50 PM (SqAkN)

18 "I'm not sure there will be elections in 2010."

Yep, do not think they don't have a plan to stay in power, these folks are evil they are not stupid.

Posted by: Mark at December 09, 2009 01:50 PM (yPPVC)

19 Bulwark, close.

By GEORGE NICOLAS IFFT.
Under date of October 10 1922 the American consul at Bergen Norway , submitted the following report to the State Department, Washington, D.C.

Posted by: Hedgehog at December 09, 2009 01:52 PM (oQIfB)

20
Who are you going to believe, the 120 million killed by communists in the last 100 years or the administration?

Posted by: Dang Straights at December 09, 2009 01:52 PM (Haq+B)

21 It seems people, not just conservatives and not even the tea party folks, are waking up to this and saying No.
Except for the Wal Mart crowd, whom, only want "free" health care and big screen t.v.'s paid for by someone else and free beer and cigarettes and nachos. They won't wake up until they can't get into their "free" clinic and can't watch their t.v. 'cause they've used up their alotted amount of electricity for that day and their beer and cigarettes and nachos have been outlawed because they are unhealthy.

Posted by: katya at December 09, 2009 01:53 PM (t+Dxj)

22 Ammo and MREs. Autonomous regional governments. That's what I say. Posted by: moron # 54135
Well said. What's the best place to obtain goodly quantities of MREs, and can anyone recommend the best kind to get? I've got space available in the basement next to the ammo pile. Though perhaps that just means I need a bigger ammo pile.
The ability of government bodiesto issue "regulations" and thereby create de facto laws without any real representation is a serious problem. The most they should be able to do is make recommendation packages for Congress to pass into law (or not pass). Imagine the power the Left now has - they've already infiltrated most of the bureaucracy. They'll start generating new regs at an amazing rate if this is goes unchallenged. I say it's a trial balloon - a test to see if "Plan #1 for Undermining the Electoral Process" can be effective.

Posted by: Reactionary at December 09, 2009 01:53 PM (xUM1Q)

23 Who are you going to believe, the 120 million killed by communists in the last 100 years or the administration?
Those who do not remember history are condemned to repeat it.
Or however that goes.

Posted by: katya at December 09, 2009 01:54 PM (t+Dxj)

24 It's all good and well to hold the line, but these guys always get their way. The libtards don't care if they loose some seats in the short term, they're convinced they will win them back, plus, is there really a difference between the EPA and the dems in congress?
short of mindless bloody violence to combat this, we're truly fucked.

Posted by: butters at December 09, 2009 01:54 PM (Iy1fI)

25 Palin is looking.... Presidential.

Posted by: DaMav at December 09, 2009 01:54 PM (QNU76)

26 "If you don't pass this legislation, then ... the EPA is going to have
to regulate in this area," the official said. "And it is not going to
be able to regulate on a market-based way, so it's going to have to
regulate in a command-and-control way, which will probably generate
even more uncertainty."
Nice country you got there. Shame if something happened to it. I'd like to protect it, but you know, my partner, he's kind of crazy. Just give me the money and I'll make sure he goes away.

Posted by: pep at December 09, 2009 01:56 PM (DZyVK)

27 Here's the link to the story I mentioned in #4.

Show this to the lefty shitheads who say that the lack of arctic ice in "unprecedented." Manhattan was still above water in 1922 wasn't it?


http://tiny.cc/N6NJ0

Posted by: Hedgehog at December 09, 2009 01:58 PM (oQIfB)

28 They won't wake up until they can't get into their "free" clinic and
can't watch their t.v. 'cause they've used up their alotted amount of
electricity for that day and their beer and cigarettes and nachos have
been outlawed because they are unhealthy.

...and then they'll blame evil meanie Republicans, as they've been conditioned to do.

Posted by: HeatherRadish at December 09, 2009 01:58 PM (NtiET)

29 Fine, Let the EPA "act on its own."

The devastating economic consequences will make for great Republican electionioneering in a few short months. And guess what, EPA? We Republicans will GLADLY Bitch Slap You with Crippling Budget cuts. Because the EPA is a useless piece of crap that in my opinion should never have been allowed to see the light of day to begin with.

Posted by: CoolCzech at December 09, 2009 01:58 PM (QECjC)

30 Mr. Pink, that line is from "The Last Dragon"

Posted by: butters at December 09, 2009 01:59 PM (Iy1fI)

31 Yeah, right. And Tiger doesn't like easy white women either.
*wink, wink*

Posted by: Hussein the Plumber at December 09, 2009 01:59 PM (RkRxq)

32 "If you don't pass this legislation, then ... the EPA is going to have
to regulate in this area," the official said. "And it is not going to
be able to regulate on a market-based way, so it's going to have to
regulate in a command-and-control way, which will probably generate
even more uncertainty."

I double dog dare you to do it. I'm calling your Pair-o-Deuces bluff. I'll take that bet over a legally-binding-for-known-eternity international treaty any day. With the EPA approach, the Executive can drive The One's poll numbers right down to where the Pelosi/Reid Congress' is. The cost? A brief period of market instability until the Congress and The One are dumped. Then a new broom can come in and check the EPA utterly with the head saying, "We overestimated the impact of CO2/AGW and will repeal either permanently or to reassess new facts."

If Congress passes a Cap-N-Tax law, we're not overturning it nearly as soon if at all.

So in conclusion, Mr. Official, make our day.

Posted by: AnonymousDrivel at December 09, 2009 02:00 PM (50S+L)

33 Allow me to translate.
Obama administration to Congressional Democrats: " We want YOU to shaft the economy a bit, or elseWE will shaft ita lot".
If I'm a Dem Congressman facing the voters next year, I don't think I find that to be very persuasive. Let Obama take the blame for his own policies.

Posted by: flenser at December 09, 2009 02:03 PM (K2phO)

34
Meanwhile, most of the midwest is crippled by a massive global warming snowstorm.

Posted by: Dang Straights at December 09, 2009 02:03 PM (Haq+B)

35 Slightly off-topic, but:

When you're a liberal pol and you've lost The Onion, you're in trouble.

Well, Obama's lost The Onion.

Posted by: Trimegistus at December 09, 2009 02:03 PM (uEZYD)

36 30
Yep you won a penny.

Posted by: Mr. Pink at December 09, 2009 02:04 PM (SqAkN)

37 Is it just me, or does Cloven Piven only work if the failure can be pinned on free markets. If the failure happens too soon (like within 10 years) of a govt takeover of health care, cap and trade, etc., won't the people turn violent against the socialists?

Just saying, counterrevolutions happen too...
and we haz all the guns

Posted by: Jollyroger at December 09, 2009 02:04 PM (dwx7V)

38 No EPA

No DoE

No Dept of Education.

It's a start.

Posted by: nickless at December 09, 2009 02:04 PM (MMC8r)

39 Comrade Chairman Obama is only doing this for your own good. Even if it does you no good.

Posted by: TheQuietman at December 09, 2009 02:06 PM (1Jaio)

40 5 I hope he does it, I hope he does. I can't wait until there's a Republican House, the EPA puts out a big pile of harsh restrictions, and then finds out that their agency funding for the coming year is *Zero*.
Do you really think this will happen? Really?

Really???

Congressional Republicans will consider it a big win, and trumpet it from the rooftops, if they can keep the rate of growth of the EPA budget down to triple inflation. Really.
We. Are. Fucked.

Posted by: Truman North at December 09, 2009 02:08 PM (e8YaH)

41 I hope the EPA pass es it. It will only bring the revolution to a head sooner, hence beginning the deportation of all fucking commie libtards to Cuba where they can have their fucking government healthcare.

Posted by: BillyBob at December 09, 2009 02:09 PM (lJWTg)

42 He said: "Hu's the Communist" ... I thought it was a question.

-Sarah Palin

Posted by: mrp at December 09, 2009 02:09 PM (HjPtV)

43 Sippy sure is bustin ass to make his Uncle Joe proud!

Posted by: Wind Rider at December 09, 2009 02:12 PM (NDYjN)

44 From their point of view the EPA approach is perfect. They can say whetever they want behind closed doors in Copenhagen, make commitments, agree on timetables, and then never have to come back to the Senate with a treaty. The EPA promulgates rules and then it is the power of the entire federal government against each individual business, who can either cave in or go under.

Posted by: motionview at December 09, 2009 02:13 PM (DtSf1)

45 Revolution, baby, Revolution! (Peaceful, of course, but Revolution nonetheless!)

Posted by: GregInSeattle at December 09, 2009 02:13 PM (B5cM9)

46 and he's not a nazi either... calling obamessiah a nazi or hitler is silly... besides they are completely different, hitler had a mustache!!!!

Posted by: letmeeatmywaffle at December 09, 2009 02:14 PM (91IME)

47 The EPA officials best be more concerned with the bad case of lead poisoning they will suffer if they try this crap.

Posted by: 1sttofight at December 09, 2009 02:14 PM (G9MiL)

48 I hope the EPA passes it.
I'm starting to wonder if it would not be a good thing, in the big picture sense, if the Dems got their way one one of these really stupid and destructive issues.
If we defeat most of their bad ideas while in the minority, the voters may think "plenty of checks and balances in DC, no need for more Republicans".
Just a thought.

Posted by: flenser at December 09, 2009 02:15 PM (K2phO)

49 The country does need some more tearing down. We can't live like this anymore.

Posted by: Truman North at December 09, 2009 02:16 PM (e8YaH)

50 We Republicans will GLADLY Bitch Slap You with Crippling Budget cuts.

Woah, woah, woah. Hey now. Let's not get hasty. We've got donors to thank. How are we going to do that without appointments to these fine and wonderful departments, hmmm?

Posted by: Michael 'Whut up' Steele at December 09, 2009 02:16 PM (u1pln)

51 Actually, I think that calling him an FDR Fascist would be most accurate.

Posted by: bill-tb at December 09, 2009 02:16 PM (y+QfZ)

52 EPA = Economic Punishment Agency

Posted by: Deety at December 09, 2009 02:17 PM (aVzyR)

53 I am going to repeat what I said yesterday, and remind people that I am not advocating revolution.

The Government, in all of it's forms, does not fear you. Their power is absolute. You do not matter except as your role in perpetuating the machine as a prong in the Prole Tax Collection Mission.

We see it in our lives every day. Government only cares about it's continued power. It does not care about anything persnickety like 'freedom' or 'rights', it only cares about itself.

Be it the State of Washington which required a man to go all the way to the State Supreme Court to fight a traffic ticket that said he was going the wrong way on the highway..... and in reality he was just stopped facing the wrong way on an offramp to jump a friend's car.....

To the absurdity of signing on to a Homeowner's Association.

Government only cares about IT'S power.

YOU do not matter.

And they are NOT afraid of you.

Just think on that for a moment.

You are nothing but a number. A nuisance. Someone they have to seem interested in when they allow themselves to be seen in public with you. Someone who bothers them with your whining and bitching and complaining.

You should all just shut the hell up and let them do what is the best for you. You obviously don't understand how to run your life, and must submit to the the Government and let them tell you what is best for you.

Posted by: Mortis at December 09, 2009 02:17 PM (hA5JK)

54 I think that's too cynical, flenser. A bad idea is a bad idea, and ought to be opposed on principle. Having said that, there's nothing wrong with letting them shoot themselves in the foot if they insist despite opposition.

Posted by: grognard at December 09, 2009 02:17 PM (v0kvW)

55 What's interesting, if you look at the Technical Support doc for this Endangerment Finding it says in the first paragraph of the Executive Summary ...
Executive Summary
...This document itself does not convey any judgment or conclusion regarding the question of whether GHGs may be reasonably anticipated to endanger public health or welfare ...
And then goes on in the verynext paragraph to state a conclusion ...
Greenhouse gases, once emitted, can remain in the atmosphere for decades to centuries, meaning that 1) their concentrations become well-mixed throughout the global atmosphere regardless of emission origin, and 2) their effects on climate are long lasting.
All I know to say is that I hate Communists.

Posted by: Gravity Dick at December 09, 2009 02:17 PM (U0oFg)

56 "Command and control" is not a focused group phrase designed to blur the real intention of the regulations. It's the kind of phrase that will make the hair stand up on the back of the necks of ordinary Americans who will be frightened by such talk.
If I thought that Administration economic official was bright enough to play political strategy well, I would say she threw out this phrase as red meat to the Right to stir them up into a frenzy -- so that the Administration could then say, "See how wild-eyed those teabaggers are?" But she's not that bright: she said it merely as a clumsy threat to Congress. And the result will be a lot of wild-eyed folks on the Right and in the Center coming after their Congressmen to let them know in no uncertain terms that we don't want cap-and-tax by command and control, by legislation, or by any other means.

Posted by: stuiec at December 09, 2009 02:18 PM (Ate22)

57 Yep, FDR fascist or Stalinist seem to be the most appropriate designations.

Posted by: Truman North at December 09, 2009 02:19 PM (e8YaH)

58 Having said that, there's nothing wrong with letting them shoot themselves in the foot if they insist despite opposition.

Posted by: grognard at December 09, 2009 02:17 PM (v0kvW)
But, they're shooting at our feet ... and giggling about it.

Posted by: progressoverpeace at December 09, 2009 02:19 PM (A46hP)

59 In an interview I saw with Wade Rathke he explained that the War on Poverty's aim was to"Cloven Piven" oroverwhelm the system. They were trying to overwhelm the govt to establish a minimum income for every person. Sometime in the late 70s they realized it wasn't going to work because the economy kept growing and the system didn't get overwhelmed. They then decided that they could only push the "worker" agenda through entities like ACORN (Obama) and ENVIRONMENTALISM.
He took pride in Acorn and the unions protesting until there were laws passed against paint, etc. They didn't care about the "pollution" but only about the "workers".

Posted by: dagny at December 09, 2009 02:19 PM (B/wKD)

60 Don't you feel better?

Not until I begin the copious drinking tonight.

Also, I would like some of the free nachos, plz.

Posted by: alexthechick at December 09, 2009 02:20 PM (8WZWv)

61 If we let all this crap happen, I am worried that at some point the people will no longer have the ability to reverse it. All this talk about dissolving the EPA is horseshit and we all know it. Never going to happen.

Now on the other hand if we take lessons from the greenies and sue these bastards anytime they take a shit, then that might lead to something.

A good example of this is Tripoli vs. BATF. This is how I think we could do it.

Posted by: Rickshaw Jack at December 09, 2009 02:20 PM (nE6Eu)

62 Is it just me, or does Cloven Piven only work if the failure can be
pinned on free markets. If the failure happens too soon (like within 10
years) of a govt takeover of health care, cap and trade, etc., won't
the people turn violent against the socialists?

Doesn't matter. CP is based on the idea that desperate people will beg for government help. Hungry/unsafe people don't give a fuck about free markets vs. socialism if their basic Maslow needs aren't satisfied.

Posted by: tachyonshuggy at December 09, 2009 02:20 PM (yUybe)

63 Does a peaceful revolution have to end without death to the traitors?

Posted by: Rob in Katy at December 09, 2009 02:20 PM (8x6Zf)

64 "If you don't pass this legislation, then ... the EPA is going to have
to regulate in this area," the official said. "And it is not going to
be able to regulate on a market-based way..."

Or to put it another way, "Pass Cap and Trade or we'll put a dagger through the heart of America". The Executive branch in a rather clumsy attempt at blackmail of the Legislative branch. I don't care what party a senator or congressman belongs to, this will not sit well with them. I expect that after a few discreet phone calls, the WH will issue a "clarification".

Posted by: oLD gUY at December 09, 2009 02:20 PM (P/D33)

65 Time for the EPA to STFU STFD. They have outlived their uselessness.

Posted by: maddogg at December 09, 2009 02:21 PM (OlN4e)

66 Has anyone else read the Honor Harrington series by David Weber?

Space opera, where a Constitutional Monarchy is beset by a neighboring stellar nation, the People's Republic of Haven.

The PRH is in a state of constant war, absorbing any neighboring entity to continue raising the Basic Living Stipend to the Proles.

Interesting drama.

Posted by: Mortis at December 09, 2009 02:22 PM (hA5JK)

67 Those in the Republic of Texas, would you please hurry up and secede, I've got the Suburban loaded up and I'm ready to join.

Posted by: Hedgehog at December 09, 2009 02:23 PM (oQIfB)

68 Dude, the Republicans aren't going to scale back the EPA. Period. They frickin' ran on getting rid of the EPA and Dept of Energy and Education in 1994, and that "resolution" didn't last to the day after the election.

We have essentially a one-party system, and they really are working toward the same thing: amassing power for themselves. The government CANNOT be trusted, not en toto or in part.

Posted by: Ella at December 09, 2009 02:24 PM (y0vbB)

69 "Command and control" == "Centralized planning" == Communism

So, yes, an own goal mis(statement).

This is an Obama proxy that is trying to get someone else to do Obama's dirty work so that The One can superficially stay above the fray. In this case Obama wants that someone else to be Congress. Obama wants the Marxist control but, again as always, doesn't want direct blame. Congress, meet Bus. Bus, Congress.

If Congress accepts this approximate suicide pact, eh, what'll Obama care. He didn't actually do anything, right? He's just using the tools made available to him. It was Congress' collective wisdom that was questionable. Obama doesn't want the EPA to really step in since that's an Executive operation and leads directly to him. Obama's just trying to scare Congress into doing what he wants to do but without leaving fingerprints.

Call. The. Bluff. It's the best of two bad options.

Posted by: AnonymousDrivel at December 09, 2009 02:24 PM (50S+L)

70 This is unconstitutional. The EPA is a part of the executive branch...which is responsible for enforcing laws, not making laws or regulation.. Thats Congress's job.
I want the media to bring up this point now. This is the definition of a tyranical government. Whats the difference between having a king?
Prepare yourselves .... 'folks'

Posted by: John Frum at December 09, 2009 02:25 PM (IMSJ7)

71 It's the kind of phrase that will make the hair stand up on the back of the necks of ordinary Americans who will be frightened by such talk.
That's the point, they want Americans to be frightened. The question is: What does it take to get Americans ANGRY?

Posted by: Speller at December 09, 2009 02:25 PM (7Ldd7)

72 this is the type of shit that really makes me want to unplug. And yet, I somehow feel compelled to watch them kill this country

Posted by: fartbubble at December 09, 2009 02:27 PM (cBeTr)

73 Doesn't matter. CP is based on the idea that desperate people will beg for government help. Hungry/unsafe people don't give a fuck about free markets vs. socialism if their basic Maslow needs aren't satisfied.

But the situation is an inverse of that. The peoples needs are being addressed although incompetently. Its not a "let them eat cake" moment such as a fall of the Berlin wall one.
Cloven Piven in this sense is not caused by lack of government but strangulation from it.
We're going broke because of entitlements. It would stretch the limits of credibility that the answer to stupid is to double down on dumb.
Still the dems are trying to reform Medicade/Medicare by expanding it...

Posted by: Jollyroger at December 09, 2009 02:27 PM (dwx7V)

74 We have to destroy America to save it.

Posted by: Economic Official at December 09, 2009 02:27 PM (SWvPS)

75 katya: Except for the Wal Mart crowd, whom, only want "free" health care and
big screen t.v.'s paid for by someone else and free beer and cigarettes
and nachos.

Speaking as a card carrying member of said crowd, I can say you are at best, ill-informed. Just who do you think makes up the tea parties? Have you even looked at the YouTube videos? Not many of the opera crowd in the bunch.

Posted by: oLD gUY at December 09, 2009 02:28 PM (P/D33)

76 Comrades, just because Barry wants total control over every aspect of our lives including when to end it doesn't mean that he's a power hungry dictator on the make.

Posted by: TheQuietman at December 09, 2009 02:29 PM (1Jaio)

77 I am also a member of the 'WalMart' crowd, because I don't see the point in spending more for the same item just because the store is a little neater.

And I make a great living.

Posted by: Mortis at December 09, 2009 02:29 PM (hA5JK)

78 61 If we let all this crap happen, I am worried that at some point the people will no longer have the ability to reverse it. All this talk about dissolving the EPA is horseshit and we all know it. Never going to happen.Now on the other hand if we take lessons from the greenies and sue these bastards anytime they take a shit, then that might lead to something.
THREAD WINNER

Posted by: Truman North at December 09, 2009 02:30 PM (e8YaH)

79 Obama doesn't want the EPA to really step in since that's an Executive operation and leads directly to him. Obama's just trying to scare Congress into doing what he wants to do but without leaving fingerprints.

Posted by: AnonymousDrivel at December 09, 2009 02:24 PM
The Precedent doesn't care about whether it is traced back to him, or not. Look at all of the stupid stuff he's been doing and saying, himself. The Precedent's only care is to exact revenge on the US, which means economically crippling us and bringing chaos to our society - and THIS he wants credit for in future history books.
The Precedent is a policitical suicide bomber who wants to take the US down with him. He will likely succeed, too, since our nation is full to the gills with gullible leftists and America-haters.
It is too late for America to stop the process that was put into place on Nov 4th, 2008. The die is cast and this will play out until the dissolution of the US - more than likely to be from the coming monetary disaster.
We had a chance to stop this with the eligibility cases, but there are too many cowards and fools on the right for that to have gone anywhere. When self-described "conservatives" are arguing that there's no problem with having Chief Executives holding 46 different citizenships ... you know it's all going down, and going down hard.

Posted by: progressoverpeace at December 09, 2009 02:32 PM (A46hP)

80 The "carbon credits" or "trade" in the Cap and Trade bill is the Bolshevic's way of paying off their backers. If the EPA is forced to regulate carbon without the legislation the administration is forced to "double cross" their cronies. Dare they?

Posted by: Adobe Walls at December 09, 2009 02:33 PM (lUiZg)

81 Extortion is the main tenet of the community organizer's playbook.

Posted by: FreakyBoy at December 09, 2009 02:33 PM (4s1it)

82 Yep, FDR fascist or Stalinist seem to be the most appropriate designations.

Posted by: Truman North at December 09, 2009 02:19 PM (e8YaH)
I wouldn't say that. Not unless I wanted to be found floating face down in the river.

Posted by: WalrusRex at December 09, 2009 02:35 PM (xxgag)

83 Karl Denninger at The Market Ticker thinks Congress would defund EPA in an afternoon if they tried. He's absolutely right that they could, but I think he's whistling past the graveyard.

Posted by: Ken at December 09, 2009 02:35 PM (rQI8i)

84 The Precedent doesn't care about whether it is traced back to him, or not.
If that was true then they would not be trying to forcce Congress to take action, they'd go ahead and let the EPA run the country.

Posted by: flenser at December 09, 2009 02:36 PM (K2phO)

85 The Obamastream media is butt-hurt they don't get a receiving line this year at the White House Christmas Party to get that face time with President Zero. They are also hurt they are not all invited, even after the work they put in to put him in power. It may not be much, but even some of them are starting to notice the stench.
Fingers crossed,

Posted by: U.S.S. Yorktown at December 09, 2009 02:38 PM (5RlWq)

86 "The devastating economic consequences will make for great Republican electionioneering in a few short months."

So where is Michael Steele, denouncing this?

So, where is the rock-ribbed congressional conservative who has introduced legislation to strip this power from EPA? I know, I know, it won't go anywhere, but it would serve as a rallying point.

Hey, GOP! I'm waiting!

Posted by: Brown Line at December 09, 2009 02:38 PM (XxJEF)

87 Hey, GOP! I'm waiting!

Hey, you know what?

Fuck the GOP.

What the fuck have they REALLY done for us?

Posted by: Mortis at December 09, 2009 02:40 PM (hA5JK)

88 "If you don't pass this legislation, then ... the EPA is going to have to regulate in this area," the official said.
Or Congress could just pass legislation saying that the regulation of CO2 is not something under the EPA's juristiction. Then the EPA is not going to have to regulate in this area either.
A bill saying just that has already been introduced in the House.

Posted by: flenser at December 09, 2009 02:41 PM (K2phO)

89 If that was true then they would not be trying to force Congress to take action, they'd go ahead and let the EPA run the country.

Posted by: flenser at December 09, 2009 02:36 PM (K2phO)
The EPA regulations don't bring in revenues to the federal government. These revenues are needed to keep the whole leftist destruction going more easily.
Secondly, The Precedent just likes anything that causes more chaos and saps public trust from our institutions.
You can't look at the executive decisions to close Gitmo, give civilian trials in New York to KSM and Co., to go to Hopenhagen for the meeting on the destruction of the West, going on his international Traitor Tour to tell the world about what a bad place and people America was before his ascendancy... and think that The Precedent really cares one whit about what American people think of him or his intentions.
The Precedent only cares about the third world seeing him as their avenging angel, come to rain down chaos and pain on America.

Posted by: progressoverpeace at December 09, 2009 02:42 PM (A46hP)

90 51
Actually, I think that calling him an FDR Fascist would be most accurate.


Posted by: bill-tb at December 09, 2009 02:16 PM (y+QfZ)
I think he's closest to Mussolini. Besides, FDR has a good name, mostly because he was CinC during WWII.But the comparisons to Mussolini are much closer anyway. I don't think FDR had the overall plan.

Posted by: AmishDude at December 09, 2009 02:43 PM (ItSLQ)

91 I would expect that Obama would prefer for Cap and Tax to be passed. The EPA can't redistribute the wealth and that's Obama's ultimate goal. Of course, he'd like to distribute US wealth on a global scale.

Posted by: Publicserf at December 09, 2009 02:47 PM (9CUw3)

92 71 -- It depends upon which group of Americans you are specifically talking about. Multicultural pc bullshit has pretty much managed to sever any true and lasting ties between the various groups -- after only a few decades of setting us upon each other like a pack of ravenous dogs over every special interest group percieved slight and its attendant group backlash we are a more divided country than at any other time in our history (and that includes the Civil War). We have allowed ourselves to be come factionalized, tribalized, and as such we are completely powerless as a body of citizens. We have also allowed ourselves to be bought out with all of those easy living goodies that one by one we traded what little self-autonomy a person can have in a civil society for volunteer serf shackles.
I fear the time to "take things back" happened quite some time ago. And the EPA? The most fascist department going, with an amazing amount of power, and...a fluffy bunny facade to show the ignorant public. Most uninformed people see the EPA as the very goody, good guys -- so the public will not blink at any power grab or jackbooting by them.
I'm beginning to think we are true and thoroughly frakked -- and am beginning to wonder about the 2010/12 elections and if they will be allowed or not too.

Posted by: unknown jane at December 09, 2009 02:49 PM (5/yRG)

93 This is really worrisome. Obama will be heading to Nopenhagen soon, and will promise significant reductions in CO2. It looks as if he can accomplish that legitimately through the treaty process....or now through the EPA if Congress refuses to play ball...which is likely.

The extra constitutional route, if things like the law of the land get in his way.

Posted by: DngrMse at December 09, 2009 02:49 PM (LWPer)

94 The EPA regulations don't bring in revenues to the federal government.
These revenues are needed to keep the whole leftist destruction going
more easily.

The first thing that you learn in Macroecon 101 is that regulations are stupid. If you want to discourage activity, tax it. At least you get some revenue for the economic slowdown.

The Precedent only cares about the third world seeing him as their avenging angel, come to rain down chaos and pain on America.

Can't be said enough.

Posted by: AmishDude at December 09, 2009 02:52 PM (ItSLQ)

95 hEY GuYs, dOn'T fOrGeT I WoN tHe NoBeL PRiZe iN PeAce!

Posted by: Obama, the 16-year old girl at December 09, 2009 02:55 PM (ia/06)

96 The first thing that you learn in Macroecon 101 is that regulations are stupid inefficent. Polititians are stupid.
FIFY

Posted by: Obama, the 16-year old girl at December 09, 2009 02:58 PM (ia/06)

97 LEAVE! OBAMA! ALONE!

Posted by: Chris Crocker at December 09, 2009 02:59 PM (SPSOE)

98 I'm beginning to think we are true and thoroughly frakked -- and am beginning to wonder about the 2010/12 elections and if they will be allowed or not too.

Quit wondering and start stocking up on ammo and mre's
What do you think the EPA is going to do if we tell them get fucked?

Posted by: VELVET AMBITION at December 09, 2009 03:00 PM (xLMtq)

99 I think he's closest to Mussolini. Besides, FDR has a good name, mostly because he was CinC during WWII. But the comparisons to Mussolini are much closer anyway. I don't think FDR had the overall plan.Posted by: AmishDude at December 09, 2009 02:43 PM (ItSLQ)
This may be true in some ways.Though I have no personal doubts that FDR wasnothing more than Stalin without the personal power. But I contend that Mussolini, despite being not a great guy, was probably pretty fond of his own country, and would be a lesser evil than our current president. At leastBenito felt the need to try to enrich and aggrandize his own nation, rather than destroy it. He wasn't trying to replaceItalians with a mob of foreigners, either. The current president of the US is a traitor. A jack booted, black shirtfascist who loved America would be preferable toObama thered communist America-hater.

Posted by: Reactionary at December 09, 2009 03:02 PM (xUM1Q)

100 Hold the line is tea bagging wingnut gutter speak for fire in the hole right?

Gold and silver are not the precious metals of tomorrow.

Posted by: evil libertarian at December 09, 2009 03:03 PM (GOJ9V)

101 I'm not even sure that the EPA can offer to do X if the Congress does Y, as is being suggested here. Once it says that CO2 is a pollutant which is "endangering" the public,the EPAmust by law take certain actions about it. There is nothing in the Clean Air Act which says "the EPA may chose not to follow these actions if it can persuade Congress to dosomething similarinstead".
Not that anyone cares about the law anynore, but still.

Posted by: flenser at December 09, 2009 03:06 PM (K2phO)

102 We're here to save you, yes we can!

Forget about the death panels.

Sarah Palin is a liar, Trig is not her son.

Posted by: Command and Control at December 09, 2009 03:22 PM (IlCz1)

103 Only by destroying all large corporations in America can we create jobs... to claim that destroying businesses will destroy jobs and get in the way of creating jobs is a false choice. - Obama's next speech

These false choices are really getting on Obama's nerves too. Last week he wanted to fly to France and China at the same time and the pilot said the plane couldn't go to two places at once. That pilot has been fired for demanding a false choice. (ok, maybe not really, but you weren't sure).

I'm worried now. Obama might not be a socialist or a narcissist... he might be what in technical psychological terms is know as bat-f*ck crazy.

Posted by: Gekkobear at December 09, 2009 03:30 PM (SrfGc)

104 I am not a socialist! And the ONT is not a clique!

Posted by: Barack Obama at December 09, 2009 03:34 PM (DIYmd)

105 #101

It's that Obama can promise, and then deliver on those promises to other governments outside of the treaty process. The EPA seems aware of this too...hence the warning shot across Congress' bow.

Posted by: DngrMse at December 09, 2009 03:41 PM (LWPer)

106 The EPA seems aware of this too...hence the warning shot across Congress' bow.
The EPA is a regulatory agency created by an act of Congress. It's fascinating that people calmly accept the proposition that it can tell Congress whatlaws to write.
Everyone knows that only the Supreme Court may do that. It's in the Constitution I think.

Posted by: flenser at December 09, 2009 03:51 PM (K2phO)

107 ""And it is not going to be able to regulate on a market-based way, so it's going to have to regulate in a command-and-control way, which will probably generate even more uncertainty.""

Until the dozens of lawsuits that are going to be coming at you get amalgamated into one case before the Supreme Court and you get sent packing.

And the only uncertainty the EPA is generating is even more uncertainty as to whether Obama will be able to avoid being thrown out of office.

Posted by: chaos at December 09, 2009 03:53 PM (mFUln)

108 When I think of the EPA (which is close to never), I think of the pedantic, dick-less dweeb from Ghostbusters. I'm not quite sure if a 25-year old movie character can help with the present problems.

Posted by: Luca Brasi at December 09, 2009 03:57 PM (YmPwQ)

109 1
Only racists have a problem with "command and control" economic policy.


Posted by: Charles Johnson at December 09, 2009 01:41 PM

Oh Charles, tell them about the upding and downding code project that you're working on to present to the EPA!!!

Posted by: Shamuta at December 09, 2009 04:06 PM (sYxEE)

110 It's true, your honor. This man has no dick.

Posted by: Peter Venkman at December 09, 2009 04:20 PM (/VEEI)

111 I agree with Drew. I have come to believe they are trying to destroy the fundamentals of America: capitalism, profit, and freedom from government.

Posted by: PJ at December 09, 2009 04:27 PM (Qpxxz)

112 From the Democratic point of view, this is just getting children to eat their vegetables. The government knows what's good for you and will make you do what they want. Even though the you (the American people) may complain (Tea Party demonstrations, bad poll numbers, etc), the government will do what's best foryou in spite of those complaints. It's kind of like having a nice, benevolent big brother looking out for you. What could be better?

Posted by: OCBill at December 09, 2009 04:40 PM (WGXy4)

113 NO...WAIT...JUST...A...DAMN...MINUTE...

Those ellipses [...] are leaving something important out:

Partial quote: "If you don't pass this legislation, then ... the EPA is going to have to regulate in this area," the official said.

Full quote: "If you don't pass this legislation, then according to the Supreme Court decision, the EPA is going to have to regulate in this area," the official said.

Really, unnamed official? Because I read that Supreme Court decision. And as awful as it was, it closed with this:

"We need not and do not reach the question whether on remand EPA must make an endangerment finding,
or whether policy concerns can inform EPA’s actions in the event that
it makes such a finding. We hold only that EPA must ground its reasons
for action or inaction in the statute."

In other words, Obama's EPA is doing this because they want to, not because they had to. The Supreme Cult foolishly allowed it (because they are UN Internationals, too,) but has not yet mandated it. This is Obama. He wants to do this--he just wants to blame it on the Court. (Or Congress, if they'll bite.)

In any event, the real answer is to elect a new Congress, repeal that portion of the law, elect a real president and name Constitutionalists, not Transnationalists to the Court.

That's all.

Posted by: Noel at December 09, 2009 04:52 PM (Hh13R)

114 Stolen from 106:
The EPA is a regulatory agency created by an act of Congress. It's fascinating that people calmly accept the proposition that it can tell Congress whatlaws to write.
Everyone knows that only the Supreme Court may do that. It's in the Constitution I think.

Posted by: Justice Sotomayor at December 09, 2009 04:58 PM (F9R0K)

115 katya: Except for the Wal Mart crowd, whom, only want "free" health care and big screen t.v.'s paid for by someone else and free beer and cigarettes and nachos.Speaking as a card carrying member of said crowd, I can say you are at best, ill-informed. Just who do you think makes up the tea parties? Have you even looked at the YouTube videos? Not many of the opera crowd in the bunch.
It's not my intention to actually offend anyone, believe it or not. I shop at Wal Mart often. When I speak of Wal Mart Shoppers, I'm talking about the ones who have earned their reputation.People who believe the world owes them a living (and then some). The ones who don't care what their welfare habit is costing their tax-paying neighbor. The ones who pro-create without any thought about who is going to pay for and raise those babies. Etc, etc, etc. I'm talking about the mindset.

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Posted by: dad at December 09, 2009 05:59 PM (9XgYq)

117 Back to the EPA. I say "go for it." More power to 'em. Here's why:

The EPA will cap emissions, but cannot institute a Cap and Ruin pogrom. The Algores of the world cannot make any money from simple caps. They need to be able to sell carbon credits for their not cutting down trees.

I live near an area used for timber harvesting. The properties have been targeted years ago and have riders on the deeds that allow the timber companies to come in and clearcut them. New saplings are planted and the timber companies move on to the next property.

What I'm getting at is that Algore not cutting down trees on his carbon credit properties makes absolutely no difference to the timber industry. It is simply a money laundering scheme that makes Spotted Algore a billionaire.

I don't like the EPA having such jurisdiction, but it is preferable to Cap and Destroy.

Posted by: RTH615 at December 09, 2009 06:45 PM (Rytlc)

118 Charles Krauthammer on Special Report just vindicated my premise stated above of Cap and trade without the trade. It's bad, but the addition of "trade" is worse.

Posted by: RTH615 at December 09, 2009 06:54 PM (Rytlc)

119 Oh goody, we get to be ruled by experts! Yay!

That's just exactly what this country was founded on -- "smart" people making decisions for all those stupid proles!

Posted by: qrstuv at December 09, 2009 09:05 PM (k39kM)

120 All your congress are belong to us.

Posted by: EPA at December 09, 2009 09:07 PM (snlsw)

121 The heads up their butts crowd are getting nervous and concerned, yet they don't really understand why. I say, put your head back where you had it, butit probably don't matter anymore anyway. A big surprise is coming, and like Christmas, you don't want to know ahead of time ? Tingly legs on the wayyyyy ! CREASE YOUR PANTS Warp drive....ENGAGE !

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