1 I think they should breakdance fight.

2
All I need to know about Carly Fiorina: Hewlett Packard

3 All I need to know about Carly Fiorina: Hewlett Packard + Compac acqusition = toilet.

4

"I like DeVore and I think he's a good guy."

"But I'm disappointed at the sleazy campaigning."

Then maybe he's not really a good guy?

Good people usually don't lie, unless it's to protect themselves from evil. I don't think Fiorina is evil, so I'll have to assume that DeVore isn't such a great guy after all.

And yes, either of them is better than Boxer.

5 This is California for God's sake! If you don't live here, please keep your comments to yourself.  A REAL Conservative can NEVER win here. The numbers just don't work out. Count your blessings and support Fiorina.

6

Fiorina is gonna get Palined. I wonder how many erstwhile Repubs are going to join in the public stoning like they did in the treatment of Palin.

My money is on Fiorina.  She's sharper than Palin if probably not quite as able to fend off her enemies (no moose trophies on the wall or fish guts under the finger nails).  But she is smart and more talented than most of the Repub field.  She is a worthy future leader in the party, imo.

7

For everyone who says "I'm done with squishes, I'm done with RINOs..." let me say: I understand the sentiment. But, if I have to take a few squishes to get control of the Senate, I guess that the price you pay. Why? Because the majority party gets to determine what gets investigated and what does not. Why does it matter: can you imagine the investigation that would go on right now if Sen. Inhoe chaired a committee that could look into the hacked GW e-mails. Think that would be fun. Hell, that is 2 bag of popcorn and a cold 6 pack fun.

And, when you investigate, you get subpoena power. And contempt of Congress power.

If we had a truly conservative President, I would probably feel differently. But we don't (atleast for another 3 years and then, who knows). So, yea, even with the HP mess, if you told me Carly could beat Boxer, fine, I'd take it.

That having been said, if Devore wins, I still give him the same campaign contribution I would give her. Which is the bottom line, no matter who wins, you have to agree to support the winner.

 

8 I've said it before, I have a very low opinion of Fiorina.  I think she would be one of those "Its not the best bill, but we have to do something!" type Senators. 

The McCain campaign had to stop her from doing TV appearances because she was too stupid to stay on point.  Let me say that again,  too stupid for the McCain campaign.  We should be able to do better than this.

If DeVore is going to falsely accuse her of taking positions that most conservatives hate than he is no better.

9 Also, DeVore presumably wants Fiorina's endorsement after he wins. (If he wins.) If Fiorina really is the squish DeVore claims, Fiorina can do real damage if she decides "fuck this guy, fuck him right in the ear" and lets him twist until November.

DeVore would be well advised to stick to what he can prove.

10

Good people usually don't lie, unless it's to protect themselves from evil. I don't think Fiorina is evil

She's exactly the sort of big business idiot who's been running the GOP and the country into the ground for the last decade or so. Why would any Republican even think of voting for her?

11

Hey Gabe, when you are done trading twits with Allahpundit, and smirking about RINOS and using the word "patriot" as some kind of an ironic insult, then can you tell us why you think DeVore is a good guy?

Really, it will only take a minute and then you and AP can get back to making fun of Ace's readership.

12

This is California for God's sake! If you don't live here, please keep your comments to yourself.  A REAL Conservative can NEVER win here.

There you go again!

13 I'd like to think I can shake a politician's hand without it feeling slimy.

I think that's a nice sentiment, and I wish I could do the same, but I don't think any politician isn't slimy, even if I agree with them. That seems to be the nature of politics, it just slowly sucks out your soul until you're beholden to everyone.

14 gau, Sarah Palin is not "stupid." I defy you to prove you are more intelligent or more accomplished than Sarah Palin.

Otherwise, yours is just another in a series of cheap shots littering the forums on the Web.

15 And I'm probably going to vote for DeVore. I got a good impression of him from his appearances on John and Ken. If Fiorina gets the nom, then I'll vote for her because, really, ANYONE has to be better than Boxer.

16 @14 I don't see where I mentioned Sarah Palin, but please, continue.

17

And that's why DeVore's attempts to brand her as a moderate gain traction. She mostly can't do anything but say, "I am not a witch!" while he exhorts the crowd to see if she floats in water. The more she protests, the guiltier she looks.

She does not have to protest. She could just come out and state clearly what her positions are. She's done a decent job of squirting ink so far.

18

The True Conservaties are at it again. Personally I'll take what I can get. She's no Scozzaflava.

19

The True Conservaties are at it again.

We should favor the Fake Conservatives such as you?

20

She's no Scozzaflava.

You base that on your tarot card readings I suppose.

21 Hey Gabe, when you are done trading twits with Allahpundit, and smirking about RINOS and using the word "patriot" as some kind of an ironic insult, then can you tell us why you think DeVore is a good guy?

What. The. Fuck?

Fuck you, pal. What the fuck are you talking about?

Regarding your other demand, I think DeVore is a good guy because that's the impression I got from chatting with him. And I've seen what he did in the Assembly before the campaign got going.

I separate those two statements above -- "Chuck is a good guy", "Chuck's campaign is sleazy" -- because I'm not convinced from what I've seen that Chuck is running the show.  I think he's been the recipient of some bad advice on how to run this campaign. And I'd like to see him shape up. Hence, this post.

22 If Fiorina walks too fast her earrings hit each other.

Stolen from America 2.0

23 Podcast 10 here left me with a very favorable view of DeVore:

http://tinyurl.com/y8zat4m

24 Had the same experience with one of Devore's "campaign consultants" from Red State on twitter. And he offered the same BS arguments to support their "Carly is Pro-Choice" assertion. That campaign has been stretching the truth Fiorina the entire campaign so I am not surprised to see them do it now. This "consultant" seemed to think that the ends justified the means and that they are merely playing hardball. Perhaps. But such a lack of integrity from the campaign makes me question the candidate. As a result, I closed my wallet to Devore. He may be the better candidate. His campaign is integrity challenged at best.

25

21 Hey Gabe, when you are done trading twits with Allahpundit, and smirking about RINOS and using the word "patriot" as some kind of an ironic insult, then can you tell us why you think DeVore is a good guy?

What. The. Fuck?

Fuck you, pal. What the fuck are you talking about?

This:

@duchess_rebecca If I'm not "pure" enough to argue with vets over troop policy, how am I "pure" enough to argue with Glenn Beck? 19 minutes ago from Seesmic in reply to duchess_rebecca @duchess_rebecca How much "you hate the troops!" shit do you want me to eat in one day? 21 minutes ago from Seesmic in reply to duchess_rebecca @duchess_rebecca But ... he's a patriot! 35 minutes ago from Seesmic in reply to duchess_rebecca @andylevy Elaborate 37 minutes ago from Seesmic in reply to andylevy @gabrielmalor @jimmythenotable RINOS 37 minutes ago from Seesmic

"WHAT.THE.FUCK?" was kind of my reaction too.

26 This "consultant" seemed to think that the ends justified the means and that they are merely playing hardball. Perhaps. But such a lack of integrity from the campaign makes me question the candidate.

Agree. I think it's the consultant, not the candidate. Which is why I'd like to see them shape up.

27 Fiorina's destroyed HP's reputation for producing quality stuff. 

28 Dude. This is fucked up. Why not just have Mary Carey run for Senate?

29

This "consultant" seemed to think that the ends justified the means and that they are merely playing hardball.

Goodness gracious! That's not cricket, is it?

Politics ain't beanball.

30 Gabriel, some facts may be useful here. Full disclosure: I'm Chuck DeVore's communications director, so as Reagan liked to say -- trust, but verify. Actually, you don't have to trust at all, as everything below is sourced and verifiable.

Bottom line up front: Carly Fiorina was a conditional supporter of the Obama stimulus -- until the past few weeks, when she realized that's anathema to Republicans.

Fiorina's support for the Obama stimulus started with her praise on CNN in December 2008 (see http://bit.ly/3o3Oi7) for Obama's incoming economic team. In that same interview, she specifically endorsed the concept of an Obama stimulus -- "Well I think [Obama] is absolutely correct in saying that people on both sides of the aisle think economic stimulus is necessary" -- with the caveat that it had to give "small business" its cut.

In April 2009, Fiorina went on record (see http://bit.ly/4i0J3i) to say that "she finds it encouraging that Congress is spending substantial amounts of money on broadband infrastructure" as part of the Obama stimulus.

Finally, at the Web 2.0 Summit on October 22nd, 2009, (see http://bit.ly/1iifeb, at about the 7 minute, 30 second mark), Fiorina's only critique of the Obama stimulus was that is sent funds to construction, but not biotech.

The consistent theme throughout Carly Fiorina's public discussion of the stimulus for the past year -- before the past couple of weeks -- is not her opposition to it, but her eagerness to see her preferred sectors get their cut. She is not a principled opponent of the stimulus, as Chuck DeVore has been from day one: she just thinks too much of it went to construction.

Gabriel, the Obama stimulus is just one of many issues on which Carly Fiorina is tacking hard to the right, and hoping media and bloggers ignore her decade-plus public record. (That includes the pro-life issue, which she tried her best to dodge -- see http://bit.ly/2IsIER and http://bit.ly/40UzGN -- till forced into specifics on the Stupak Amendment in DC last week.) Sadly, her hope is unfortunately well-founded. If you want documentation, ask -- we're happy to provide, as can Google.

What I don't recommend is accusing a major Republican US Senate campaign of "sleaze" or anything like it -- not without getting ducks in a row first. There's only one campaign that's aggressively worked with Democrat- and left-wing media to smear conservatives -- and it's Carly Fiorina's. (See http://bit.ly/4i7Gr6 for the release on that.) Everything we do and discuss is assiduously sourced. We've done our homework. Have you?

31 11 Jim, what the hell are you talking about?? I follow Gabriel on Twitter and he never tweeted any of that crap you just posted.

32 Flenser,

I get that it is not beanbag. But I also think that you do not destroy your primary opponent. However ends up winning is too bloodied to win the general election. And we are talking about flat out lies. I tend to like my candidates to have integrity and my impression is that Devore may be a great guy and a good candidate but is being advised by integrity challenged and sleezy advisors. They ar emaking Devore look bad. And that impression is one I had 6 weeks ago and now Gabriel is having the same vibe.

33 That didn't format well.

34 @5, yep CA would never elect a real conservative say like Ronald Reagan.

35 Posted by: Mike H at November 24, 2009 11:30 PM (cvvNY)

You do realize that was over 30 years ago, right?

Things have changed a bit there.

36 34 @5, yep CA would never elect a real conservative say like Ronald Reagan.

Posted by: Mike H at November 24, 2009 11:30 PM (cvvNY)

As they say, that was then and this is now. I think if Reagan were 40-years-younger and ran for govenor today, he wouldn't get elected. This state is a very different place than it was back in 1968.

37 I agree with gabe! I also live in CA and have seen this negative campaign by devore and I don't like it. To be honest with you guys i don't think either devore or carly can win against boxer. Devore is 2 conservative for CA, has little name recogniton, that he may be nice but doesn't have the chance to become the next senator from CA. People from CA elect republicans like arnold not devore. That's just how it is.

38 @35, ah crap my watch stopped! Sorry, guys. I'll have to wind it forward 35 years.

Yea, I was in CA two weeks ago (San Jose) and it's changed since I first started going out there 15 years ago. All in all, I still think conservative ideas presented in the right venue will win.

39 I live in California.  Fiorina's a social liberal.  Supported Prop. 8 big time. 

40 I live in California.  Fiorina's a social liberal.  Supported Prop. 8 big time.

Ad rem, you are a fucking idiot. Supporting Prop 8 = opposing gay marriage. Chuck DeVore also supported Prop 8.

41 Fuck yourself gaywad!  I made a mistake......so crucify me.  She's still not the conservative DeVore is. 

42 LOL 39-41

43 Seems like a pretty weak argument that Fiorina was in favor of THE porkulus.  You lead with the idea she was for a stimulus in December 2008 before Obama was even President.  Yeah, so was everybody.  If it had been done right and consisted primarily of tax cuts, it would have been fine.  Supporting a "theoretical stimulus" in December 2008 is NOT the same as supporting the bloated Porkulus that passed in February.  End of story.

Not to mention a lot of the argument centers around Fiorina the business leader, NOT Fiorina the nominee for senator.  If anybody has trouble understanding how someone in the business community would have different priorities than the Senator from California, well, I can't help you there.

44
What I don't recommend is accusing a major Republican US Senate campaign of "sleaze" or anything like it -- not without getting ducks in a row first. 

Posted by: Joshua Treviño at November 24, 2009 11:24 PM (N/aT1)

***************

While it's really cool that you would care enough to respond, and while your evidence is well-sourced, here are a couple of points:

You say: ' she specifically endorsed the concept of an Obama stimulus -- "Well I think [Obama] is absolutely correct in saying that people on both sides of the aisle think economic stimulus is necessary" '

But this quote is emphatically not an endorsement of an "Obama" stimulus.  Rush Limbaugh himself maintained that an economic stimulus was necessary -- he just wanted it to be in the form of tax cuts.  In fact, in a WSJ editorial, he was willing to accept a stimulus for which only 46% was tax cuts.

Also, lighten up!  This is a primary.  This is where you're supposed to highlight where your guy would be really great, and leave the "our opponent would destroy America" schtick for the general election in 2010. 

Assuming DeVore loses the primary, would he endorse Fiorina?  Because if what you say about her is true, and if Chuck DeVore is an honorable man, I don't see how he could, with a clear conscience, support a conniving politician willing to lie about her record and her views just to get elected.

45 So I'd like to see better behavior out of DeVore's campaign before I choose him over Fiorina.

If it were me, I'd want to see some evidence of competence before supporting Fiorina over, well, anybody. She's Obama with a vagina, good at nothing but failing upward.

But she is smart and more talented than most of the Repub field

Yeah, so smart that she flew every company she ever worked for right into the ground.

PA has the right of it in regard to HP. I have a 20 year old HP printer that'll probably outlive me, assuming supplies remain available. The new ones are the same flimsy Chinese crap as all the other brands. I have a 15 year old HP calculator that's as good as the day I got it, and it's gotten HEAVY use over the years.

46

FYI: Gay Patriot has a rundown on things too:

"Fiorina is as much a mainstream conservative as DeVore.  Indeed, to compare the former HP CEO to Scozzafava only shows how different the two women are.   Fiorina opposed the “stimulus” and is against “card check” legislation, two items on the Democratic agenda the New York Republican backed.  On every major issue on which the Californian has offered an opinion, she has shown herself to be in the mainstream of American conservatism, even, alas, in her support for Proposition 8."

http://tiny.cc/V1Y51

From what I can tell the conservative credentials for either one seem to be about the same with the exception with DeVore we have an actual voting record to go by as well, so I guess that puts him ahead by default.

And yes, Prop 8 was Anti-Gay Marriage, so if she was for it, that's a good thing.

47 "I will vote for a dancing monkey with an (R) behind its name before I vote for Barbara Boxer."

That's cold, bro.

48 Why not just have Mary Carey run for Senate?

She's not bimbo-y enough.

49 Carly is fairly well known here in Silicon Valley.  While she didn't handle a scandal at HP very well, her decision to change the business direction of HP is what has allowed that company to grow, particularly relative to Sun who was their peer at the time.  She has good instincts as a "big picture" person.  She is more of a strategist than I believe DeVore is.  So far I am leaning toward supporting Carly.

DeVore's rhetoric so far is pretty much "I am the 'pure' conservative" and that's about it.  That won't get you elected in California,  A pure conservative who is unelectable is a waste of everyone's time and money.  He may be able to collect more in donations than Carly but she doesn't need it because she is filthy rich.  She can outspend him no matter what.

The ONLY thing going for DeVore is the he is not Boxer and that might be enough this election. 

Still leaning Carly, though.

50 42 LOL 39-41

Posted by: ParisParamus at November 24, 2009 11:59 PM (I2aaX)

Yeah, it seems like everyone's turned up to ELEVENTY this evening. Sorry Ad rem. Check out Uncle Jimbo's thread below to see why many folks are pulling out the f-bomb around here tonight.

51 She's not bimbo-y enough.

OK, we can fix that.  Stupid you can't fix.

52

DeVore's rhetoric so far is pretty much "I am the 'pure' conservative" and that's about it.  That won't get you elected in California

I assume he's trying to win the primary at this point.

53

If anybody has trouble understanding how someone in the business community would have different priorities than the Senator from California, well, I can't help you there.

I know you can't.  Because business leaders who make the leap to politics have a habit of continuing to think like business leaders. Hell, if you want somebody who thinks like a business leader you've got Feinstein and Pelosi, with their business interests  all over the state and the country.

54 Carly is fairly well known here in Silicon Valley.

Yeah. Known as "Carly the Cunt".

55

She's exactly the sort of big business idiot who's been running the GOP and the country into the ground for the last decade or so. Why would any Republican even think of voting for her?

Yep. Carly's the type that thinks everything's great because she and her pals are raking in the dough. Never mind that country's going into the crapper. By God she got hers! Sorry, it's not enough to be fiscally conservative while shitting all over social conservative positions.

Carly is a twunt. 

56 For all that want Devore to win,
unless you are convinced that Pelosi's health
care bill is an incredibly good idea. The
kind of republican you want to run in California is Carly.

You all believe that a real conservative like Devore has the
opportunity to win in a state like California.
Unless Boxer starts feltching Charles Manson, that won't happen.

/ahhhnold

57 I don't mind his sleezy campaigning. Finally a conservative with balls.

58 I assume he's trying to win the primary at this point.

exactly

And, he's not afraid to get down and dirty. I like it. I'm voting for him.

59 #50, Gabe...

My apologies Gabe, I was out of line.  Didn't like being referred to as an idiot........even if my comment was nonsensical.  You're a class act. 

60 I'll do you one better, Gabe -- I will vote for a dancing monkey with an (R), (D), (L), (I), or any other letter or combination of letters behind its name before I vote for Barbara Boxer. Hell, I'd vote for a cinder block, six cubic feet of pond scum, or a frothing rabid dog before I'd vote for Boxer. And, yes, I live in California.

61

Fiorina got the whole H1B visa and outsourcing to India crap started.

HP should have outsourced her job to India, and saved those American programming jobs, the company would have been far better off.

62 Fuck yourself gaywad!  I made a mistake......so crucify me.

And he owned you, verily. Man, must feel pretty bad to be owned by a 'gaywad!'

63

Boxer's main legislative "accomplishment" is her Global Warming legislation.  I hope climate gate damages her further.  Add to that the "Call Me Senator" bit and she should be toast.  But alas, this is CA and she probably wins over Devore or Fiorina by +8 because of the Democratic machine in CA. 

64 Yeah, I'm a SoCal native and fuckin' Babs Boxer's gotta go. Even if the Dancin' Monkey wins.

65

Do NOT vote for the dancing monkey!

She's the incumbent, and a Democrat!  Don't be fooled!

 

66

If anybody has trouble understanding how someone in the business community would have different priorities than the Senator from California, well, I can't help you there.

I know you can't. Because business leaders who make the leap to politics have a habit of continuing to think like business leaders. Hell, if you want somebody who thinks like a business leader you've got Feinstein and Pelosi, with their business interests all over the state and the country.

Look, man, I'm not speaking to anything speficically regarding Fiorina. I know little if anything about her. What I WAS doing, however, was responding to the argument that she supported the Spendulus mess because she has made comments about who got money, like biotech, etc. The fact of the matter is that private individuals serving in a business capacity do not normally consider the broader impact beyond their own interests - generically. The fact that she was looking out for her interests as regards the outlay of money from the Porkulus is expected. And so it is no argument whatsoever that she actually supported the Porkulus.

Whether or not she can move beyond her positions supporting her own self interests to those of the entire state of Califormia and the nation in general, well that is an open question. But saying she supported the Porkulus appears to be a very weak argument.

67 Fiorina was involved with the disastrous McCain campaign. That's all that any honest-to-goodness conservative needs to hear.

68 I think Boxer is a sissy guy dressed up as a....sissy guy.

Where do you get the "Ma'am" thing?

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70 I'm confused.  Barbara Boxer is the dancing monkey with the "R" at the end of her name. 

71 70 - makes me think of the Army of the 12 Monkeys .... we did this!  Maybe they will send Sean Penn back from the future to stop BHO as he drives a stake into the beating heart (and fantasies) of the "progressive" (blech) movement. 

68 - the ma'am thing is when she hectored some army general, appearing before a Senate oversight hearing, to address her as 'Senator' rather than 'ma'am' because, as she patronizingly explained, she had "earned" it ... a shocking display of poor taste and disrespect on her part.  Dutiful soldier that he was, the general complied, whereas most of us would have been tempted to have responded to her request with a succinct "yes, Ma'am."  (see # 63)

72 I'm with you.  The 'Pubs must set the new standard and make sure it's high.  They still get my vote but it's good when it's defensible.  'Pubs hammering 'Pubs is the wrong path to follow.

73 I worked for HP for 19 years. Carly was absolutely the worst. When she visited a branch they would remove the real silverware because they were afraid we would attack her with it. For years and years HP was the best place to work ever, always in the top 2 surveyed. She certainly changed that. When she traveled she always had to have an entire floor of the hotel for her emtourage. She once gave $2 million of HP's money to fund gay rights parades on the same day she announced layoffs of 200 R & D personel. In the old days HP would buy a small company as a way to break into a new technology or business. For example we bought Apollo Workstations to get into the workstation business. And the Apollo people were brought aboard into our culture with pay raises and with our benefits, it was always a happy occasion. We bought 4 Pi for xray inspection technology, and so on. But Carly bought Compaq, not to gain any technology not even to gain a real advantage, but to make HP bigger. Then how many did she lay off? 40,000, 50,000 I forget. And before she run HP into the ground she ran Lucent. remember Lucent? They were on top, innovators of internet hardware. She took over and destroyed them. When was the last time you have ever heard of Lucent? I loved working for HP. It was my life. She turned it into a place you dreaded going. When they finally got rid of her the emails circulated Ding Dong the witch is dead. When McCain took her into his staff that is what made it impossible for me to vote for him. Better the enemy you know in Boxer.

74

Is Fiorina another Arnold? During the Governor's race the same debates were going on between the Arnold supporters and the supporters of Tom McClintock.  Deja Vu all over again except I hope Forina doesn't turn out to be an Arnold.

75 yep CA would never elect a real conservative say like Ronald Reagan.

Reagan had a few things going for him that sort of, kind of, maybe, probably, no definitely helped him get elected in California.

1) Name recognition.
2) General Electric

You knew Ronnie because he sold you General Electric products that inspired you to rethink your daily life.

It's a little difficult to see people today throw around Reagan as a true conservative that could get elected in a rapidly changing environment like California without remembering how much name recognition he already had established before running.

All I can say is I hope true conservatives find a sense of humor that the voters they are courting can comprehend.

76 Prop 8 wasn't Anti anything. It was Pro marriage.


I'm not in Cal but if I was I would be for Devore. Fiorina is a negotiator. Right now she is negotiating with Conservatives and guess what she's laid down enough BS to give her cred on that. If she wins the primary she will pivot faster than Andrew Sullivan in a circle jerk for the general campaign. In office she will want to be the lead in the circle jerk. Not buying it. I live in CT and it's the same reason I will never support McMahon. The only principles these people have ever had ran a high school. They have positions instead.

 

77

This is California for God's sake! If you don't live here, please keep your comments to yourself.  A REAL Conservative can NEVER win here. The numbers just don't work out. Count your blessings and support Fiorina.

And yet, of the three GOP candidates to run against bitch Boxer, the only one who got really close to beating her was "unelectable" Bruce Herschensohn (1992). Squishes Matt Fong (199 and Bill Jones (2004) were trounced.

I grant you that *abortion* is a sure loser in Cali, but immigration, guns, and capital punishment are NOT. Even Dianne Feinstein touts her death penalty cred (while approving commiecrat judges who block it at every turn).

78

Is Fiorina another Arnold? During the Governor's race the same debates were going on between the Arnold supporters and the supporters of Tom McClintock.  Deja Vu all over again except I hope Forina doesn't turn out to be an Arnold.

Oh she will, she will.

Ahnold is a disaster from which it will take the CA GOP years to recover. The GOP thought they needed a charismatic leader and so they got one--one who stabbed them in the back and led them right off the cliff.

In fairness, McClintock wasn't really serious about his Gubernatorial run in 2003--he just ran as a sop to those who didn't think Ah-nold was hardcore enough. But McClintock *was* serious about the Lt. Governor's race in 2006, and he loyally backed Ah-nold for reelection in 2006. But did Ah-nold return the favor? Nope, back stab.

79 39 I live in California.  Fiorina's a social liberal.  Supported Prop. 8 big time. 

Posted by: Ad rem at November 24, 2009 11:51 PM (yPHLS)

40 I live in California.  Fiorina's a social liberal.  Supported Prop. 8 big time.

Ad rem, you are a fucking idiot. Supporting Prop 8 = opposing gay marriage. Chuck DeVore also supported Prop 8.

Posted by: Gabriel Malor at November 24, 2009 11:52 PM (Mi2wf)

41 Fuck yourself gaywad!  I made a mistake......so crucify me.  She's still not the conservative DeVore is. 

Posted by: Ad rem at November 24, 2009 11:56 PM (yPHLS)

one of you two owes me a new monitor, and keyboard.

80 Is Fiorina another Arnold? During the Governor's race the same debates were going on between the Arnold supporters and the supporters of Tom McClintock.  Deja Vu all over again except I hope Forina doesn't turn out to be an Arnold.

Can it even be avoided?  The interests in California do vote, but they are certainly at worst a center-left amalgamation of quasi-capitalists that know the path to victory is a road where pork barrel spending is a product of the race.  Look at the Embryonic Stem Cell research institute.  Pummel the Feds at the same time you pummel those crusty paleorepublicans with their human dignity obsession in order to supply commercial interests with the taxpayers money and establish a board to hand out appointment favors you mortgaged to get elected.

I do think DeVore would push back in a stronger capacity than Fiorina would based solely on the discernible differences in their backgrounds.  However, I'm not really confident you can represent California without eventually kowtowing to the nature of commercial interests in the State.

81

She once gave $2 million of HP's money to fund gay rights parades on the same day she announced layoffs of 200 R & D personnel.

That says so much. "They're only going to hate you anyway." Repeat after me, Republicans. Repeat until it sinks in.

82

Unless Boxer starts feltching Charles Manson, that won't happen.

What do you mean "unless"???? She passed that point years ago.

Other than the A-word, Cali is NOT as socially left as you think. Does anyone remember Prop 187 in 1994? Or how "gay marriage" failed in spite of the Gya Lobby outspending its opponents many times over?

83 Gut feeling is that the DeVore campaign is  a bit sleazy.  Notice that his communications commissar wrote to trash Forina..  Let's look at one of his first points:
she specifically endorsed the concept of an Obama stimulus -- "Well I think [Obama] is absolutely correct in saying that people on both sides of the aisle think economic stimulus is necessary" --

Notice that the quote does not "specifically" endorse the (Obama) plan ( why the brackets around Obama by the way, maybe not the exact quote?). 

It endorses a stimulus program, which I think everyone did/does, just not the Obama plan.  I think everyone has a different one in mind, payroll tax cuts, more productive investment in infrastructure, or some sort of mortgage stabiliztion program.  If DeVore can come up with an umodified quote where Forina endorese a massive increase in the Dept. of Education  maybe I will reassess, but  somehow I doubt they can manufacture that.

84 This is California for God's sake! If you don't live here, please keep your comments to yourself.

Horseshit, this is some seriously stupid thinking. Might be your state, it's MY country, and who gets elected out there in the land of whackjobs sure as hell effects me on this end of the country. What's next, because I'm not black, I can't comment on Affirmative Action? Think, speak.

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Posted by: Curmudgeon at November 25, 2009 11:00 AM (ujg0T)

It works, it's similar to Cahrles isn't it?

87

Can it even be avoided?  The interests in California do vote, but they are certainly at worst a center-left amalgamation of quasi-capitalists that know the path to victory is a road where pork barrel spending is a product of the race.  Look at the Embryonic Stem Cell research institute.  Pummel the Feds at the same time you pummel those crusty paleorepublicans with their human dignity obsession in order to supply commercial interests with the taxpayers money and establish a board to hand out appointment favors you mortgaged to get elected.

This is why many of us don't trust the so-called "fiscal conservative social liberals". Never mind the moral objections to using fetuses, this was *blatant* corporate welfare!

88 THANK YOU for posting this, Gabriel. 

I'm in basically the same place you are... except I'm not sure I would paint Devore as a "good guy" given that the only things I've heard from his campaign have been attacks of Fiorina that stretch the truth (at the minimum) or smear her.  I realize I'm supposed to be all up in arms about Carly saying she has a better chance of beating Boxer than Devore does because she's a woman, but I don't find that particularly offensive... nor is it an "attack" on Devore.  Whether or not it's true that Californians would like to vote for a woman is a matter of opinion. 

Just today I got an email from the Fiorina campaign in which she attacks government-run heath care. 

I have gotten zilch from Devore. 

89

Look at the Embryonic Stem Cell research institute.  Pummel the Feds at the same time you pummel those crusty paleorepublicans with their human dignity obsession in order to supply commercial interests with the taxpayers money and establish a board to hand out appointment favors you mortgaged to get elected.

WTFCI at November 25, 2009 10:51 AM (GtYrq

So many things developed after Arnold was elected and not living in CA, I had forgotten about that big one. 

90 About that ECS institute.  Didn't Art Torres graduate from Chairman of the California Democratic Party to the Chairman of that fucking institute?

How the hell do voters look the other way at these shenanigans?  These wouldn't hold up in my state of Illinois.  If anything about half the press would editorialize against he behavior.

91

How the hell do voters look the other way at these shenanigans?  These wouldn't hold up in my state of Illinois.  If anything about half the press would editorialize against he behavior.

Stem cells are something of a sacred cow to the leftists and the lamestream media (BIRM).

92

I'm for DeVore because that radio fool hewitt is for her.

PS she is pro abortion & hasn't voted in decades...so much for political smarts.

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I'm for DeVore because that radio fool hewitt is for her.

From Hispandering to Ah-nold cheerleading, Hugh Hewitt has a habit of just not getting it. To his credit, when he does realize he is wrong he about-faces in a "tell me which way the base is going so that I may lead it!" fashion.

94

I worked for HP under Carly, and she single-handedly destroyed morale within the company.  Before HP, she was at Lucent.  Lucent employees refer to her time there as The Dark Days. 

Someone above mentioned that Carly positioned HP to take market share from Sun.  HP didn't do so much well, as Sun made mistakes.  Carly championed offshoring development and tech support, and cutting corners in manufacturing.  Sure the margins looked good for a couple of quarters, but then customers started seeing the bad QC and flocked to IBM in the server market and Dell for PCs.  When management turned on her, she bought Compaq for a management chain that would support her. 

Want to watch me vote Democrat?  Put Carly on the ballot.

95 There should be only one thing that matters in this primary -- who can beat Barbara Boxer? She is a moron but Republicans keep nominating people who are even dumber to run against her. I don't know anything about Chuck DeVore but I followed Carly Firoina quite a bit during the 2008 campaign and I think she can beat Boxer. Boxer ALWAYS pulls the gender card in the end and it always works. She can't do that against a woman, and especially against a smart woman lime Fiorina.

I also get really tired of the Hewlett-Packard thing getting throw at Fiorina as something that automatically disqualifies her from holding elected office. For chrissakes, at least she has substantial experience in business and knows how the hell jobs actually get created in America, and how excessive taxation and regulation of business hurts the economy. That puts her light-years ahead of any professional politician, Republican or Democrat.

So she was a shitty boss at HP and Lucent? How does that make her a bad choice to represent California in the Senate?

96 i'am sorry but this douschebag played the gender card no one in their right mind would vote for an female obama[identity politics] honestly go ahead but you forfeit the right to complain when someone on the other side plays the gender card

97 I know you can't. Because business leaders who make the leap to politics have a habit of continuing to think like business leaders. Hell, if you want somebody who thinks like a business leader you've got Feinstein and Pelosi, with their business interests all over the state and the country.

Posted by: flenser at November 25, 2009 12:43 AM (4B2/U)

----------------------------------

Feinstein and Pelosi MARRIED businessmen. Neither of them ever ran a business themselves and I think they re both completely clueless about how businesses are actually run in America. They most certainly do not think as business leaders; if they did, they would not be pursuing policies that are so inimical to actual California business and have driven businesses out of the state in droves.

98

Better examples of "business leaders" would be the mayors Bill White in Houston and Michael Bloomberg in NYC. They tend toward cronyism, and prefer raising revenue over cutting costs. They are also deathly afraid of being called out for "diversity".

This office is for the Senate, right? It need people with foreign-policy experience (the Senate does treaties) and an understanding of the law (the Senate consents to judicial appointments). You don't want a businessperson for that job. You want a prosecuting attorney, of a state or a major port city.

99 P.S. By prosecuting attorney I mean someone who isn't a glory hound. Mike Nifong need not apply. Obviously.

100 I met Carly at the Four Seasons Hualalai.  My ex-boyfriend's python had warmer eyes. 

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There is also a 3rd candidate who is fiscally conservative and not socially liberal running as well. His name is Al Ramirez and he doesn't come with all the political baggage that Chuck and Carly have.

He has even had an event at the NRSC and is polling neck and neck with Carly and better than Chuck in some polls.

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