Democratic Senator: Oh Hell No I Won't Read The Health Care Bill

Sen. Thomas Carper (D.-Del.), a member of the Senate Finance Committee, told CNSNews.com that he does not “expect” to read the actual legislative language of the committee’s health care bill because it is “confusing” and that anyone who claims they are going to read it and understand it is fooling people.
“I don’t expect to actually read the legislative language because reading the legislative language is among the more confusing things I’ve ever read in my life,” Carper told CNSNews.com.
Carper described the type of language the actual text of the bill would finally be drafted in as "arcane," "confusing," "hard stuff to understand," and "incomprehensible." He likened it to the "gibberish" used in credit card disclosure forms.

Here's the thing, he right. The actual wording of a law is incomprehensible because it refers to other laws, sections and subsections, striking some words adding others and on and on and on. But...we as citizens are expected to follow these laws. Try going to court and say, "Your honor, as Senator Carper says, 'laws are confusing and hard stuff to understand' so let me go."

Good luck with that one.

Below the fold, video of Carper explaining why he can't read the bill he's supposed to be writing.

Posted by: DrewM. at 01:53 PM

Comments

1 1st one in. Ahahaha

Posted by: assclownspotter at October 02, 2009 01:54 PM (myHQe)

2
it's funreadable!

Posted by: Tweet beats dead horses at October 02, 2009 01:55 PM (jVldi)

3 So glad these people are in charge of everything now. Can I still shake my head sadly or would that mean a pre-existing condition?

Posted by: BeckoningChasm at October 02, 2009 01:56 PM (eNxMU)

“I don’t expect to actually read the legislative language because reading the legislative language is among the more confusing things I’ve ever read in my life,” Carper told CNSNews.com.

Carper described the type of language the actual text of the bill would finally be drafted in as "arcane," "confusing," "hard stuff to understand," and "incomprehensible." He likened it to the "gibberish" used in credit card disclosure forms.

Uhh, Senator Carper, you understand that you guys write the bills, right. If it is too hard to read, did you ever just think, maybe maybe maybe, we should start again and try doing it in a manner that everyone could understand.

Or you could just continue to be Harry Reid's bitch. You choice.

Posted by: Mallamutt at October 02, 2009 01:57 PM (V9SYy)

5 I'm going to go out on a limb and say this post gets less comments than the previous thread.

Posted by: Dr. Spank at October 02, 2009 01:58 PM (uVAgY)

6 I can has term limits nao?

Posted by: Unclefacts, Summoner Of The Meteors, Lover of George Foreman Grilled Bacons at October 02, 2009 02:00 PM (erIg9)

7 Sen. Thomas Carper (D.-Del.), a member of the Senate Finance Committee, told CNSNews.com that he does not “expect” to read the actual legislative language of the committee’s health care bill because it is “confusing” and that anyone who claims they are going to read it and understand it is fooling people.

Oh no, he doesn't want to read it because he's confused by it, but I'm 100% sure he won't have any qualms about voting for it.

Posted by: Blacque Jacques Shellacque at October 02, 2009 02:01 PM (jV9DU)

8 So why can't laws be written in plain engrish? Because the elite fucking ruling class hasn't been thrown own on its fuckin ear yet.

Posted by: Tried O Waitin at October 02, 2009 02:02 PM (HEyy6)

9 Hey, Carper, did you read the job description? Did you see the word "legislator" anywhere? It didn't say "lazy motard."

Posted by: George Orwell at October 02, 2009 02:02 PM (AZGON)

10 What do they call that thing psychics do when they just put a pen on a piece of paper, close their eyes, and start to draw randomly? Yeah I am getting the feeling that would be a more effective way to write out laws.

Posted by: Mr. Pink at October 02, 2009 02:03 PM (SqAkN)

Perhaps we can get them to post the “committee” version of the bill so when it turns out that the two are actually different we can send some staffer to jail.

Posted by: Vic at October 02, 2009 02:03 PM (CDUiN)

12 Where the hell is Jim Carville when they get loose with this stuff - "Yah not suppose to say that raht out loud in front'a tha camras jakazz ! Who the hell tol' you people howya suppose to tawk ! Jeebus !!!" Just when I think no one's going to top "we voted on it before we read it" a legislator actually admits that he refuses to read it. Shouldn't this stuff be grounds for removal from office ?

Posted by: societyis2blame at October 02, 2009 02:04 PM (rPDD/)

13 Shouldn't this stuff be grounds for removal from office ?

Hell yes.

Posted by: HeatherRadish at October 02, 2009 02:05 PM (NtiET)

14 Isn't that part of your job? To understand the legislative language.

Posted by: Jerome at October 02, 2009 02:06 PM (ENGMe)

15 There is no way I want to read the word squeakhole that many times! After 200 it stops making any sense!

Posted by: Sen. Thomas Carper at October 02, 2009 02:06 PM (k1kpA)

"“I don’t expect to actually read the legislative language because reading the legislative language is among the more confusing things I’ve ever read in my life,” Carper told CNSNews.com."

So, Carper, please explain why you should have your current job, as reading and voting on legislative language are the only two requirements.

Posted by: Vashta.Nerada at October 02, 2009 02:06 PM (5uU81)

17 Good idea. Just blindly sign the thing.

Posted by: TheQuietMan at October 02, 2009 02:06 PM (1Jaio)

18 What do they call that thing psychics do when they just put a pen on a piece of paper, close their eyes, and start to draw randomly? Yeah I am getting the feeling that would be a more effective way to write out laws.

Posted by: Mr. Pink at October 02, 2009 02:03 PM (SqAkN)

automatic writing. I thought that was the way all bills were written.

Posted by: mikeyslaw at October 02, 2009 02:07 PM (QMGr1)

19 Are we sure this wankpaddle can even read?

Posted by: George Orwell at October 02, 2009 02:07 PM (AZGON)

20 The Fucking Arrogance of the political class continues to astound me.

Posted by: Just Another Poster at October 02, 2009 02:07 PM (HAdov)

"we as citizens are expected to follow these laws"

I believe it is also a constitutional requirement that laws must be understandable.

(not certain - hearsay, your honor)

Posted by: Hussein the Plumber at October 02, 2009 02:09 PM (RkRxq)

22
Rush keeps repeating, "Barack. Hussein. Obama. Mmmm. Mmmmm. Mmmmm."

And I laugh harder each time I hear it!

Posted by: Tweet beats dead horses at October 02, 2009 02:10 PM (jVldi)

So.....what does this guy do again?

*shrugs*

*crickets*

Posted by: Roadking at October 02, 2009 02:10 PM (UEE89)

24 This is not unlike being forced to comply with tens of thousands of pages of IRS code, having to pay a professional to do your return (since you are a mere college educated American) getting it back, still not understanding why you owe what you owe, and then having to sign the form verifying its accuracy, under penalty of perjury, all the while being assured that the entire system is voluntary.

Posted by: rawmuse at October 02, 2009 02:10 PM (cuWk2)

mikeyslaw thanks for the info.

OT tip of the day, pick up Cadillac Williams in your fantasy league today. He is playing against a Redskins defense that allowed over 100 yards rushing by the freakin Lions, and Brooks is out due to injury so there will be no splitting time in the game this weekend. I say this as a Redskins fan, we will find a way to lose.

Posted by: Mr. Pink at October 02, 2009 02:10 PM (SqAkN)

26 "Reading"......never heard of it!

Posted by: Charlie Gibson at October 02, 2009 02:10 PM (ZBY0f)

27 Reading is hard.

Posted by: fireman1 at October 02, 2009 02:11 PM (LL/pP)

28
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Posted by: Tweet beats dead horses at October 02, 2009 02:11 PM (jVldi)

29 Carper tries to defend it by saying that regular Americans do this all the time, citing Credit Card agreements, but then trips over his own dick.

Carper: I use it to like, for example, credit card disclosures. If you actually read the stuff, you say, you read it and say, like dozens of pages: ‘What does this say?’ And this is one of the reasons why we’ve directed, among others, banks to use plain, plain language, plain English to explain what they’re doing, so that the gibberish, you can’t read it and really know what it says.

Posted by: krakatoa at October 02, 2009 02:13 PM (mhdbo)

30 And yes, I'm implying he's got really short legs.

Posted by: krakatoa at October 02, 2009 02:14 PM (mhdbo)

31 Suckas..

I don't have to read it.. only vote for it.

and it doesn't apply to me either.

Posted by: Sen. Carper at October 02, 2009 02:14 PM (La0Tt)

I have lost all Hope! Hell, we might as well just let the Commiecrats have what ever they want, so we can be plunged into violence ASAP. Let's get it over with!

YeHaaaaw!............We Ride!

Posted by: Jimi at October 02, 2009 02:14 PM (ZBY0f)

Humm. I didn't know Zero's school safety czar was in with NAMBLA. How bad can it get?

Posted by: maddogg at October 02, 2009 02:15 PM (OlN4e)

34 Clearly the IOC's decision not to award the 2016 Olympics to Obama is motivated largely by their animosity toward a black man.

Posted by: Kasper Hauser at October 02, 2009 02:17 PM (KeOQp)

35 Any morons reading Carper ass Crapper.

Posted by: Dislexic at October 02, 2009 02:18 PM (HEyy6)

36 We need everyday, common sense, courageous, moral people in office. You know, like Sarah Palin.

Posted by: GregInSeattle at October 02, 2009 02:24 PM (B5cM9)

37 Did he read the instructions for his combover?

Posted by: TexasJew at October 02, 2009 02:26 PM (Fgb0Y)

I've heard palin steele's posts described this way.

Posted by: polynikes at October 02, 2009 02:27 PM (m2CN7)

39 I ain't signin' up for no government healthcare. If they come to arrest me, they can meet my twin brothers. They're barrels of fun. One of 'em's choked though.

Posted by: Screw Them at October 02, 2009 02:29 PM (/Ft4q)

Just keep Chuckin' that Ficken, Farper !

Hey, no jostling in line, you have to wait your turn - Obama, Axelrod, Rahm, aw hell, the whole Chi-town mob is here today.

Posted by: Foghorn Leghorn at October 02, 2009 02:31 PM (s2bW4)

41 Nice admission by this asshole that's he either unqualified to do the job he was elected to do, unwilling, or likely both things.

In terms of the merit of his argument, OF COURSE the bill is unreadable, confusing, and impenetrable. That's the only way to pay off special interests, establish complex bureaucracies, distract the voters, and create extra business for lawyers.

If this bill were simple, clear, and direct, it would already have gone for a quick up/down vote, and the public would be satisfied.

Posted by: looking closely at October 02, 2009 02:42 PM (PwGfd)

...

I got nothin'. My first reaction to this would get me arrested for incitement, and I don't have a second reaction yet.

Posted by: Cautiously Pessimistic at October 02, 2009 02:44 PM (pZEar)

43 "He likened it to the "gibberish" used in credit card disclosure forms."

WAIT A FUCKING MINUTE! Isn't this the same Congress that wrote legislation making credit card companies clean up their contracts and write them IN PLAIN ENGLISH?

So what's stopping them from writing laws in "plain English" so that they can be understood? Or DO THEY HAVE SOMETHING TO HIDE? Like a $10 BILLION prop for the UAW's health care?

Posted by: GarandFan at October 02, 2009 02:48 PM (ZQBnQ)

here is a solution put some porn throughout the bill and then put copies of the bill in each bathroom.

Posted by: x11b1p at October 02, 2009 02:56 PM (K3MWP)

Just to be fair, I just spoke with a friend from Delaware who says he thought Carper voted against the last set of Obamacare proposals in the finance committee.

I can't spend the time ATM to run that down, but I will say that if he's voting against the bill rather than for it, that's not grounds to remove him from office, although I still don't like him simply refusing to read the legislation even if he already knows it sucks and won't vote for it.

If he supports something he refuses to read, however, he needs the boot.

Posted by: societyis2blame at October 02, 2009 02:56 PM (rPDD/)

46 I agree 100% with Drew. While it's fun to pick on Congresscritters who admit that they have not and will not read a bill -- sitting down to read a pending bill this big really is pointless.

Here's the important thing -- you need a staff of smart lawyers to read it for you. That raw bill language is going to refer to code sections and regulations and you will have no idea what it *really* means. The devil is in the details. You can't just print it out and read it on the toilet. You need lawyers who are already familiar with the relevant code sections because you just won't have the background and context to make sense of it. All it takes is a "shall" instead of a "may" in a certain section to turn a demonstration project into an entitlement.

Posted by: Brewdog at October 02, 2009 03:03 PM (jg+Fr)

47 This is insane! So what has legal force the legislative language or the plain English version? If the later why even have the former? If the former, then that is why it is common sense necessity to have access to it before voting.

That, and how does it get verified that the plain English version accurately portrays the legislative language before it becomes law?

Posted by: Mark at October 02, 2009 03:04 PM (wGBZu)

48 In Rush to Pass 1,000 Page Health Care Bill, Congress Accidentally Enacts Walton, Indiana Yellow Pages: http://tinyurl.com/ydu9r2e

Posted by: Justin Camp at October 02, 2009 03:09 PM (nF4Jh)

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Posted by: Derak at October 02, 2009 03:19 PM (0zyGL)

50 -- "Shouldn't this stuff be grounds for removal from office ?"

And for a sever beating about the head and shoulders!
followed by a swift kick in the ass on his way out of town...
Just saying.

Posted by: rob in houston at October 02, 2009 03:21 PM (HXZOR)

51 I would treat this the way I treat California Propositions that pop up like weeds on every ballot. I am a well read, highly literate, college educated, sober, middle aged person.

If I can't understand it in 10 minutes, I vote NO.

Posted by: rawmuse at October 02, 2009 03:22 PM (cuWk2)

52 Love the story on aol news about a republican senator attacking Glenn Beck. Then you read that its Lindsey Graham and you think to yourself, "oh that's not a real republican senator". they get you worried there for a moment.

Posted by: curious at October 02, 2009 03:30 PM (p302b)

53 I suppose you idiots want us to write laws with pictographs now? You chuckleheads aren't worth a cup of my precious urine.

Posted by: Pete Stark at October 02, 2009 03:41 PM (+lsX1)

Senator Carper, You sir, ARE the problem!

Posted by: Clancy at October 02, 2009 03:45 PM (HPYJV)

55 Hmmm, have these people ever considered simplifying the language of their bills?

Do any of them wonder what's being slipped in that might come back and bite them later on?

And who the hell is actually writing these bills?

Posted by: CoolCzech at October 02, 2009 04:09 PM (QECjC)

the "gibberish" in credit card disclosures? And this guy is a Senator from Delaware??

Next up, the fish in your fish bowl complains about the "wetness" of the water.

Posted by: Stephen at October 02, 2009 05:52 PM (YoO+e)

57 You can't "simplify" the legislative language on a bill this big (note: I'm not defending the bill, at all). The bill has to contain all of the language by which it will amend the United States Code. It specifies sections to be repealed, replaced, amended, etc.

It's not that the bill doesn't make sense. It's that it refers out to numerous other sections of code. You can't just read the bill. You would also have to read the code sections to understand how the bill language affects those sections. In short, it's a hell of a project and not just sitting down with a few hundred sheets of paper and a highlighter. That's only part of it.

If I were a Senator, would I read it? Yes. But I would also have more than one smart lawyer on my staff, to whom I would hand a copy and say: "Write me a memo and tell me what it really means."

Posted by: Brewdog at October 02, 2009 06:47 PM (pOQor)

58 Incompetent. Fire Him Now.

I can only solve one problem at a time. Okay, who's up next...

Pelosi a liar.

Incompetent. Fire Her Now.

This isn't as hard as I thought it would be.

Next. Rangel, tax evasion, sits on Ways & Means Committee and should know how to do taxes.

Incompetent. Fire Him Now.

Next. Cold Cash Jefferson. Busted with $90K in freezer. Bribery.

Incompetent. Fire Him Now.

At this rate I'll have taken care of the House by dinner time. Will take on the Senate for breakfast.

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