1 Reason enough to skip church. Learned that as a kid.

2 It was wrong.

Capture and prosecute.

Period.

3 To the dipshits responsible:  Way to go!  You just galvanized your opposition and set your entire cause up for massive repercussions.

4

No information has been released about whether a suspect is in custody.

 

Fox is broadcasting a description of the perp, his truck, and his tag number. Based on that I would say he is not in custody. Also, how do we know he wasn’t shot by a jealous husband rather than a “right wing hate guy”.

5 To murder someone is always wrong, but I can't say his death makes me sad.  To bad he couldn't have died from a fiery one-car accident or something.  The far-left will make him a marter. 

6 80

Tiller just got aborted in his 242nd trimester.

Posted by: gator at May 31, 2009 12:08 PM (yUiO3)

 

That's all that needs said.

7 I'm with you Techie.  My first thought was, "Thanks asshole, you've just become the new Timothy McVeigh that the left will use to beat me about the head with."

8 Hey Ace, what are and aren't we allowed to say?

Oh, and it looks like Allah shut down the comments on his headline post of this.

9 Doesn't matter why he was shot, or who shot him, the press will find something about the killer's background that will point to a right-wing ideology of some kind. His third cousin twice removed probably has a Bush/Cheney sticker on his SUV.

10

 Way to go!  You just galvanized your opposition and set your entire cause up for massive repercussions.

 

You don't know that.  Maybe Tiller was boinking the killer's husband.

11 Just to keep things in perspective, because I'm sure the media and the Left won't:  you can still count the total number of abortionists murdered in America on the fingers of two hands.

I think Tiller makes 8.

Not saying it's okay, but it's hardly a trend.

12 Tiller was a mass murderer and his killer emulated him. May God have mercy on both their souls.

13

Obviously, killing the man is as much playing God as running an abortuary, to say nothing of the secondary concern of negative publicity in the minds of people squeamish about the issues involved.

What's more, who knows if the man may have enventually repented of his ways and spoken out against his former occupation?  Well, that's one-in-a-million, and Dr. Bernard Nathanson, the founder of NARAL, may be all we ever see. . . .

14 This won't stop late-term abortions, all it will do is make those of us who are pro-life,targets of those who will say we are terrorists and right-wing nuts. Unfortunately this will hurt the cause, and take the spot light off of the real mess Obama is creating. I hope it blows over quickly. I can't even bring myself to say God rest his soul.All I can say is now he has to answer to someone else,   

15 1) Hope the one who did it gets caught soon.

2) The MSM will use this as a "faith-based terrorism offset" for about 30 years of Islamic terrorism, just wait and see. Just like they tried to do with McVeigh (not a Christian).

3) When individual local crimes, no matter how gruesome, became regular national news, it's always been because of an agenda. That's very much a side issue, but worth noting that most murders aren't national news, and this one is because of reporters' politics, not because of the crime itself.

16 Right on. The people involved should be caught, prosecuted, and punished to the fullest extent of the law.

And that needs posting, Ace. The ironic thing is that you're going to have lefty trolls who are in favor of leaving babies dying on hospital floors coming to mourn Tiller and talk about how they value the "sanctity of life".

Life is life, regardless of age or disgustingness, and those who take it without a damn good reason should be punished. This isn't even close to a good reason.

17 Murder is wrong. It doesn't matter if it's from the hands of a doctor or from the hands of a nutjob. It's still wrong. I hope they catch who did it and prosecute them to the full extent of the law.

18 >>>Hey Ace, what are and aren't we allowed to say?

I'd prefer if murder enthusiasm and assassination boosterism were kept to a minimum.

It's unamerican and creepy to praise killers.

19 I can mourn the act, but not the man.  Somehow, though, I don't think this is the kind of 'nuance' the Left will be looking for in coming days.

20 Claims of this being proof of "the DHS "right-wing" terrorism assessment being correct" in 3.............2......................1...........

21

Looking for that operative word......empathy.....but it's lacking in my makeup, although murder in any form is a heinous crime and should be prosecuted to the fullest. 

Paging Judge Roy Bean, Judge Bean pickup line 2.

22 A few things:

1. At this point, there is no evidence that this had anything to do with his work as an abortionist.

2. No matter who the murderer is, he/she will be identified as a dangerous, right wing extremist

3. Look for DHS to claim they need to ramp up surveillance on above mentioned right wing extremists (ie, anyone who is not a frothing liberal.)

4. Look for the government to use this as a reason to limit/eliminate the ability to have a gun.

Wish I was less cynical.

23 So let me get this straight, here:  abortion is murder, but murder ISN'T murder?  Is that the 'logic' that some of you are following?

Un-fucking-believable.

24 Oh, and it looks like Allah shut down the comments on his headline post of this.

Why?  Did someone post an unflattering comment about Michelle O.?

25 It probably wasn't a pissed off husband, his vanity license plate said ###BAB (I don't remember the numbers they quoted). 

26 I find this terrible news. All murder is bad. I refuse to lower myself to the level of philosophical scum in which Mr. Tiller toiled.

27 #23

Please point out where anyone has stated that here.

28 "abortion is murder, but murder ISN'T murder?"

Who said that?

29

The wife of an abortion doctor was beaten to death in OKC a few years back. The immediate reaction was that it was related to his work. The delay reaction was he got convicted of killing her. Now he's doing life in prison.

Hopefully this won't turn out the way we think it will.

30

So let me get this straight, here:  abortion is murder, but murder ISN'T murder?  Is that the 'logic' that some of you are following?

 

Point out a post where someone supports the murder of this guy and that the guy who killed him did good.

31 Sweet!
A job or two will be created in Hollywood for writers to whitewash the story of Tiller. Just like the white washing of Harvey Milk  http://tinyurl.com/qsnjh7

Economic Growth!

Just trying to find the upside here.

32 Can anybody say "Reichstag Fire."

33 Damn sock puppet!

34

"abortion is murder, but murder ISN'T murder?"

 

Did you cut and paste that on all smart military blogs, or just here?

35 If you think the unborn are human beings, and therefore abortionists are committing mass murder without legal repercussions, killing them is a legitimate defense of the life of another. If anything, I'm more surprised that people with a firm belief in the humanity of the unborn don't kill more abortion doctors, considering the number of deaths they're responsible for. Then again, I was also surprised that the shrieking left, which saw Bush as a murderous proto-fascist leading the world to destruction, never took a shot at him. I guess people are more civil than I give them credit for--or they just aren't willing to follow their beliefs to their logical conclusion if it means some personal discomfort.

Although I'm ambivalent about abortion, it makes my blood boil a little that this freaking hypocrite could do what he did all day and then step into a house of  worship on the weekend. If he could believe that God would condone that sort of practice, does Christianity really have any meaning anymore?

36 Yeah, this asshole could be a communist and it'll still be right-wing terrorism.

And of course Christian terrorism:

Tiller shot = 9/11

Since BO loves a "crisis", I'm guessing this will be the nose of the camel for his brownshir- uh, I mean, SS- oops, uh, his new domestic security corps. You know, the one that needs to be armed as well as the military.

So, thanks jerkwad you damned your own soul and tainted a movement full of good and decent people.

37

Attention - Attention

Nutjob on post 23!

38

I am not happy about the murder but will not weep for George Tiller.

That line they use about "late term abortions" actually means infanticide. This was a man who would remove most of a baby from the womb of it's mother, punch a hole in his skull, vacuum out the child's brain and collapse the skull to remove the body.

Pardon me if I'm a bit dry eyed at his passing.

39

I live in Wichita. And this man has caused serious rifts in the community. But whether he was a murderer or not, is not the current question. Personally, I couldn't stand the man. But to be gunned down by one individual acting on his own, will lead to hysteria against those of us who are pro-life. Remember, this senseless act was done by a single individual. That individual should face Capital Murder charges when caught. In the last local report I read, the DA, Nola Foulston was on scene.

I am sure, however that the MSM will open with their witch-hunt tactics. That is a sure bet. For those who value the justice system, I would not recommend watching coverage of this by MSNBC, CNN, NBC, ABC and CBS. It will be revolting.

40 You have a guy that kills babies in the 3rd term - and I'm suppose to not feel happy that someone took him out....GIVE.ME.A.BREAK......for those people freaking out over this ask yourself:  would you feel the same way if  someone starting killing german soldiers that work at Dachau?    A great evil has been going on in Kansas - and that evil - at least for the short term - has been stopped....

41

It's wrong ... It's wrong.  But you get what you give in the end.

 

Wanna bet besides “right-wing anti-abortion Christian terrorists” getting slammed for this Fox’s Bill O`Reilly will be ripped apart for keeping the butcher in the spotlight?

Look, it’s still murder … by the person who pulled the damn trigger. NOT some TV commentator or the gun … the person who got in their car, drove to the church, looked for Tiller, aimed at Tiller, and pulled the trigger on the gun he alone loaded with bullets.

 

Here comes #1 more gun control bullshit screaming ... and #2 how we have to stop "hate speech" on the TV/radio airwaves.

 

Remember, it was Rush Limbaugh who blew up that big building in Oklahoma City and killed all those folks ... Bill Clinton said so.

42 This isn't going to work out well for me.

43 I wonder if HotAir blocked the comments because O'Reilly hovers around and looks for incriminating "blog posts".

Anyways, if there gonna be some juicy incitement here, i wanna see it. NOW. That's why i go here.

44 You have a guy that kills babies in the 3rd term - and I'm suppose to not feel happy that someone took him out

No, you're not. for the same reason you're upset about those babies being killed in the 3rd term. It's taking human life, and no one should be happy over that.

If you can justify being happy over murder, you don't care about those babies. You're just using them as an excuse to rationalize being a sociopath.

45

If he could believe that God would condone that sort of practice, does Christianity really have any meaning anymore?

 

Because one 'follower' was a hypocrite, doesn't devalue Christianity as a whole.

In fact, it just gives Christians someone new to pray for.

46

PS

 

Wonder if HHS Sec. Kathleen Sebelius will attend his funeral and even speak???

 

Just something to watch for.

47

Who said that?

Dang Straights is the only one to mention it. He's probably some douchebag astroturfing so he can quote the "hate" on AoSHQ.

Go fuck yourself DS.

48 This sounds like an opening for an anti- Christian  Kristallnacht.

49 Killing him was wrong but it was also wrong to let this guy operate and kill children for years.  When child murder is condoned by government then eventually someone was going to take matters into their own hands.  What this guy was doing was well beyond your garden variety abortion, he was killing viable babies that could have survived out of the womb. 

50 If it was because of abortion I assume the mindset of the killer was the same as that of those who would find no problem killing other mass murderers of history. It comes down again to whether abortion is murder.

51 The abortionist was -in church-?  Maybe God was too busy for a lightning strike and outsourced the job.  (For the humorless, I'm an agnostic... but sheesh, you got some massive balls to make a living out of aborting more late term children than, well, anyone, and then go to a Christian church regularly and pretend piousness.)

That said, I wonder how many people will remember the lesson of that East German spy who, with one killing, turned West Germany into a leftist country.  Would the left sacrifice Tiller to create a martyr for their cause?  In a friggin' heartbeat.

Qwinn

52 Bad, bad news.

53 37

Attention - Attention

Nutjob on post 23!

Hardly.  You're going hussein administration here if anyone who disagrees with you is a 'nutjob'.  Yeah Tillman needed to be stopped (preferably imprisoned), but he didn't need to be gunned down.  That's as bad as the idiot leftists that scream about the death penalty but support abortion without question.  It's completely inconsistent.

And yes, the DHSand the msm is going to paint us ALL with this brush.

54 Killing him was wrong but it was also wrong to let this guy operate and kill children for years.

Those are two separate issues. Stick with stating that killing the guy was wrong; the "but" only makes it look like you're rationalizing it.

55

If you can justify being happy over murder, you don't care about those babies. You're just using them as an excuse to rationalize being a sociopath.

 

I was taught that God was the final decider, not humans.  As much as we hate it, we had to trust that God was working on him.  We make our choices, but God still tries to lead.

56 "If you can justify being happy over murder, you don't care about those babies. You're just using them as an excuse to rationalize being a sociopath."

So you would condemn anyone at Dachau from using lethal force to try to stop the genocide of Jews in WW2?  Just trying to understand where you are coming from....

57 "He" has now performed his last late term abortion

58 "Posted by: Dang Straights at May 31, 2009 12:38 PM"

No the logic is that killing innocent people is murder. Killing mass murderers isn't. The word murder has more than one meaning.

59 If you can justify being happy over murder, you don't care about those babies. You're just using them as an excuse to rationalize being a sociopath.

Posted by: North Dallas Thirty at May 31, 2009 12:45 PM (vYNqn)

I like your logic, dude. Really do. Say, can i use you as punchbag? My old one is so inanimate, and it's not as cool as beating a whiny asshole who thinks fighting back is as bad as attacking.

60 "Witnesses reported a black, late model Cadillac speeding from the scene with the vanity plate 'RAHMBO'."

61

And, of course, the differences between this and Islamic terror is that none of this is sanctioned by any mainstream Christian group or religion; we believe that the murderer is going to hell (unless he atones for and admits his sin and then accepts civil and divine justice for his sinful actions) while an Islamic terrorist (supposedly) goes to heaven for his murderous actions; and that over the past 40 years of abortion loosening and on-demand in the Western world, this is a rarity and not commonplace like Islamic terror.

62 North Dallas Thirty -

Separate issues?  I don't think so.  The killer had a motive, and chances are it had to do with the fact that this guy was proudly murdering 100's of  children for years.  The first thing I said in my post was that it was wrong, and it is, I wasn't rationalizing anything.  However, it is not at all surprising given the circumstances.  I don't condone it, the guy should be hunted down and prosecuted.

63

So you would condemn anyone at Dachau from using lethal force to try to stop the genocide of Jews in WW2?  Just trying to understand where you are coming from....

 

You're really trying to go there?  We are talking about a man gunned down while going to Church. 

64

Dang Straights continues to pretend he's with the band.

I repeat, go fuck yourself. You make an idiotic statement that blatantly lies about commentary here, and then pretend you're one of us.

65 53 - Disagreeing is one thing - making up allegations about what was said is quite another.

66

Gosh, Ace. Why were you afraid to post this? /sarc

And what's the over/under on the number of comments before the banhammer has to be broken out?

67

I am not happy about the murder but will not weep for George Tiller.

That line they use about "late term abortions" actually means infanticide. This was a man who would remove most of a baby from the womb of it's mother, punch a hole in his skull, vacuum out the child's brain and collapse the skull to remove the body.

Pardon me if I'm a bit dry eyed at his passing.

Make that +1. I am not happy at how the pro-baby-killing group will turn him into a martyr, but as Siddhārtha Gautama once said, "Karma is a bitch."

I also have to wonder what kind of church would accept having him as a member.

68 There's no percentage arguing about whether this was or wasn't a political assassination. We will know in a matter of mere hours.

I assume it was an assassination based on probability. Most people have zero people who want to kill them. A small number have one person who wants to kill them.

A very, very small number of people have two or more people who want to kill them for *entirely different reasons.*

We already know Tiller has one group of of people who want to kill him for one reason. It just seems likely that this is from that same group, not someone with some other beef.

69 I guess this means Homeland Security will be re-issuing their report.

I say it was an inside job.

70 So you would condemn anyone at Dachau from using lethal force to try to stop the genocide of Jews in WW2?  Just trying to understand where you are coming from....

Notice the original post, REK; this individual was upset that people weren't "happy" about Tiller being gunned down.

Martin Luther had a prayer for the executioner that applies quite nicely here: "Dear Lord, today I kill a man unwillingly, because in Your eyes, I am no more righteous than he is."

You're not going to be happy over doing something unwillingly.

I am not the sort to argue that lethal force is never an option, but the simple fact of the matter here is that, no matter how ineffective the law had previously been in getting Tiller to completely cease his murder, it was significantly slowing him down and HAD stopped him in several instances. The Nazis were under no such restriction of law, and the only option left in that case to save the Jews at Dachau was lethal force.

71

 "Karma is a bitch."

 

I thought that was said on Big Brother and Survivor.  /

72 I call "48 hour rule".  Could've been a jealous husband, a gambling debt, who knows?  Could've been because he liked sucking out the brains of babies and dumping them in the Biohazard bag of course, but let's let it develop before we shit ourselves in fear of the backlash that's sure to come no matter what.

Well, shit.  Nevermind.  Just panic.

73
Dang Straight is a regular here and he's okay.

He's just givibg an opinion on a fucking blog and some of yo treating him as if he killed the ghoulish abortionist.

74 I don't condone it, the guy should be hunted down and prosecuted.

Just so we're both clear on that.

75 If you can justify being happy over murder, you don't care about those babies. You're just using them as an excuse to rationalize being a sociopath.

There is this little thing called "context". If one guy pushes a little old lady in front of the crosstown bus, and another guy pushes her out of the way, they're not just two guys who push around little old ladies.

76 Fuck you right back, brownshit.  I have to fight on your 'side' so an idiot like yourself can have a shit blog.

77 "...The Nazis were under no such restriction of law, and the only option left in that case to save the Jews at Dachau was lethal force..." So, if the Nazis had been killing Jews at a somewhat slower rate it would've been different? If they had been "significantly slowed down and stopped in several instances" then lethal force wouldn't have been justified? Bad news for some Jews one supposes.

78
Oh and I always knew those Lutherans were no good.

(hi michael from Innocent Bystanders)

79 We already know Tiller has one group of of people who want to kill him for one reason. It just seems likely that this is from that same group, not someone with some other beef.

Ace, how many times does the Left have to create martyrs in this fashion before we stop giving them the benefit of the doubt?  Or in this case not even recognizing the possibility?

Qwinn

80 I assume it was an assassination based on probability.

I always wonder, how important does a person have to be before "murder" becomes "assassination"?

81

The message from our side needs to be this is totally unacceptable, the person needs to be found, tried and if convicted,\sentenced appropriately which in my opinion needs to be a death sentence.

 

82 I love the proviso: "I'm not in favor of murder, but..."

Fucking knuckleheads.

83 Just when a plurality of the country considered themselves pro-life.  I question the timing, if that is allowed.

84 These zealots that take it upon themselves to be hit men for the Lord, should go back and read where it says, Thou Shall not Kill. God himself will judge, it's not mans right to.

Is abortion wrong ? Of course it is, it's state sanctioned murder, period. Unfortunatley it's a right protected by law.

Christ himself said respect the law of the land, if you don't like our laws then elect the people that can change them. We live in a democracy, not a theocracy.

I hope this douche is prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.

85

My first thoughts were that the killer's acting on principle, as if on a mission, based only on the knowledge that Tiller performs late term abortions....

OR...... it was a husband or boyfriend who Did want the child and knew Tiller  was the Dr. who did the abortion. I can imagine that being a strong motivation.

Guess we'll find out in time....

 

Not a regular church goer here....but I think it's really bad when any person, regardless of their sins, cannot be safe entering a church.

 

86 Unicle, no one's giving Dang Straight shit for "giving an opinion".  We're giving him shit for slandering everyone here with an outright lie about what anyone prior to him had said in his post #23.

Qwinn

87 Man I would love to get a transcript of the conversation upon his arrival at the Pearly Gates.  Did he deny, beg forgiveness, what?

88 ^{"We already know Tiller has one group of of people who want to kill him for one reason. It just seems likely that this is from that same group, not someone with some other beef."}

Okay, Ace, fine, but please be careful not to inflate this.  The pro-life movement isn't exactly crawling with bloodthirsty killers just itching for a chance to murder an abortionist.

That "group" you're talking about is statistically insignificant, and, as I pointed out before, their body count is something like 8.

Pro-lifers are denouncing this, as they should, but it's also important that some of us provide some defense, and I'm going to stand by while the entire movement gets smeared with this.

89 You have a guy that kills babies in the 3rd term - and I'm suppose to not feel happy that someone took him out....GIVE.ME.A.BREAK......for those people freaking out over this ask yourself:  would you feel the same way if  someone starting killing german soldiers that work at Dachau?    A great evil has been going on in Kansas - and that evil - at least for the short term - has been stopped....

Well, I  think a lot of people are happy and keeping it quiet. You can't really help how you feel. But, if you're Christian, scripture says to not gloat over the misfortune of your enemy lest God turn his wrath on you instead. I'm in enough shit already, I don't need to add divine stigma on top of it. This doesn't mean defend tiller and condemn the attacker. I refuse to do either. Just don't gloat.

90 It's a fine line to walk here.On the one hand a man is dead, shot to death going to church. On the other hand this man is responsible for hundreds of the most horrific"procedures" in the civilized world, resulting in the deaths of innocents.I will not choose to judge this man, but I must condemn this act.He is to stand his judgement in front of God.His murderer will have to, in the end do the same.

91 I find it hard to believe that a Christian would murder anyone in front of a church.  Wouldn't that be like procreating on the Alter?

92 I came here, too directly after seeing Hot air closed the comments.

I think it's good to let people spew stupid venom, then break out the ban-hammer. This kind of post is the perfect crazy magnet.

93

Capture, prosecute, and hang the murderer.

But the Left will attempt to make this something different, I'm sure.

Both the victim and the murderer were distinctly different from the kids the victim was killing as a business, by the way. The kids were not guilty and did nothing to warrant any disapproval for their actions. The victim at least was a "legal" serial infanticidal murderer. His killer has no such justification.

Like I said, neither the murderer nor the victim have any real relation to innocent 3rd trimester babies outside sharing their species. This was a crime - capture, prosecute, and hang the guilty. Let God damn the wicked.

 

94

Thou Shall not Kill

That is not the proper translation of the Hebrew. The commandment is "Thou shalt not do murder". Murder being an unjust killing. I don't think killing Tiller was right but it is important to make the distiction about the commandment becuase "Thou shalt not kill" would seem to prohibit even justifiable homicide and just war.

95 Fuck, even the gangstas on The Wire had a "Sunday Morning Truce."

96

 Dang Straights

And yet you still don't explain why you lied in your first post.

97 Sorry, Unicle, but #23 was not an opinion. It was an accusation pointed at 22 previous "opinions".  We would like to know which one of those he's accusing of saying this wasn't a murder.

98 I can't believe we haven't been slammed with idiots yet. 

99 "So you would condemn anyone at Dachau from using lethal force to try to stop the genocide of Jews in WW2?  Just trying to understand where you are coming from....

 You're really trying to go there?  We are talking about a man gunned down while going to Church. "

********************************

Yes - I really want to go there....In both instances I see  great evil in state sponsered murder.....

100 This is remarkably wrong and the perpetrator(s) should all be brought to justice. Good people all over the right disavow this kind of brutish behavior... it's not what our principles and values are about.

The alarming thing is that this is further evidence of Obama's approach causing radicalization of society. With the ascent of ACORN, the dismissal of the charges against the Black Panthers throwing out decades of colorblind voting rights protection, the pending imposition of taxes and seizure of private property, the termination of private health care, the nationalization of our industry and banks, the neglect of Israel and embracing of Islamic tyrants and numerous other efforts to initiate the State of Exception, disregarding our nation's laws by executive fiat, and people feel powerless.

As many have said, if Obama doesn't back off on the power grab, and the Democrats calm the junior dictator down a bit, things will end badly. Citizens will feel no recourse other than to radicalize. Indeed, it appears Obama anticipated this with the reports by DHS that Napolitano put out. The unfortunate matter is that releasing this before any radicalization occurs suggests to all (not just the radical nuts) that Obama has intended this outcome.

So while we arrest and prosecute those behind this senseless crime, let's not forget who created the radicalizing atmosphere that was the root cause for the man's death: President Barack Obama.

101 kensington,

I'm not saying the pro-life cause is crawling with killers. But this particular man was shot before.

102 momma, I can understand your objection, but.... isn't Tiller's presence in Church itself kinda staggering?  ASSUMING the killer's motivation was "abortion is murder" (and I don't assume that), I wouldn't be surprised if part of what drove him over the edge was this guy regularly and unrepentantly entering a Church after killing thousands of viable babies.  I find this killing happening at a Church just as, but no more, shocking than a serial murderer being "part of the congregation".

Qwinn

103

Unicle, if you will

I'm trashing him because he's a blatant liar. If that's okay with you that doesn't mean it's okay with me.

104
I smell agitprop.
What is going to sneak under the radar while the MSM Baboons howl about this?

105 Hardly.  You're going hussein administration here if anyone who disagrees with you is a 'nutjob'.  Yeah Tillman needed to be stopped (preferably imprisoned), but he didn't need to be gunned down.  That's as bad as the idiot leftists that scream about the death penalty but support abortion without question.  It's completely inconsistent.

No it isn't. I already explained why not and got no reply. Murdering a mass murderer, even if it is wrong, is not the same as committing mass murder against innocent people. It's not inconsistent at all nor is it anywhere near the same league as libtards who murder innocent people by the hundreds of millions but cry themselves sick over the idea of murderers and rapists getting the chair.

106 I'm torn on this one. On one hand I say good riddance and think about the babies that will stand a chance in his absence.

On the other, you're right in that we'll be the pariah once again by the MSM and any leftie group.

One thing's for certain, I wouldn't want to be in Tiller's shoes right about now.

107 Weird, it's not on Drudge yet.

108 Because one 'follower' was a hypocrite, doesn't devalue Christianity as a whole.

No, I don't think it implicates Christianity itself, but it does implicate the practice of Christianity in America--you know as well as I do that tens of millions of American Christians regard abortion as being compatible with Christian belief, and in some cases their church leaders are not telling them otherwise. (And in other cases, as with many American Catholics, the hierarchy does speak out against abortion, while the congregation shrugs its shoulders, votes for pro-abortion politicians, and keeps attending services.)

Despite all the fretting I read about the decline of religion in America, it's still supposedly a strong factor in shaping our national values. The misguided practitioners of 'liberal Christianity' aside, most Christian religious recognize that abortion is murder or something damn near close. If they're not willing to couple their words with actions--and by that I mean expelling congregants who support un-Christian beliefs and refuse to see them as sinful or wrong--who is going to take them seriously? When Christ found the moneychangers in God's house, he didn't wag his tongue at them. Then again, he was some kind of religious extremist.

109 Oh and I always knew those Lutherans were no good.

Got to be ELCA.

110 Partial death shootings should be a "constitutional right." 

Murder, not-so-much.

111 Ace, gotcha.  I didn't want that to seem like I was attacking you or accusing you of doing what I'm afraid some will.  It's just that I'm already seeing the Left opportunistically seizing upon this, and it puts me on defense.

112 Posted by: kidney at May 31, 2009 01:05 PM (vbr6o)

Not to mention a ban on eating. Nearly everything we eat involves the killing of something, including plants.

113 I think God will be able to sort out who the real murderer was here.

I'm not highly religious, but this is one of those times I hope for a just God.

114

Funny how the overwhelming vast majority of abortionists are male.

And I thought O'Reilly was libertarian "pro-choice" and not anti-abortion. (I don't have Fox News.)

115

Quinn-

I agree with you, but isn't that an issue for that Church?  I would not go to a church that allowed such a sinner into their pews.  But maybe, he wasn't a weekly attender. 

I could never pray beside the guy, but maybe others are stronger in their faith than I.

116 "Hardly.  You're going hussein administration here if anyone who disagrees with you is a 'nutjob'.  Yeah Tillman needed to be stopped (preferably imprisoned), but he didn't need to be gunned down.  That's as bad as the idiot leftists that scream about the death penalty but support abortion without question.  It's completely inconsistent. And yes, the DHSand the msm is going to paint us ALL with this brush.

Posted by: Dang Straights at May 31, 2009 12:49 PM (tGjKX) "

----

You very clearly have not read this blog before and are posting comments based on your understanding of conservative sites, one that you've garnered from spending much more time around liberal ones than rightwing ones.

BTW, the guy we're talking about is Tiller, an abortion doctor. The guy you just referenced is Pat Tillman - different lefty talking point.

117

Ace trusts his commenters and readers to be able to talk about this.

Thanks, Ace. I mean it.

118

see i told you wingnuts that you should get over your fixation with abortion!

my girlfriend in bed next to me is laughing at you

119 Expect mobies, though.

120 Odd how this happens within two weeks of a Gallup poll showing most Americans are now pro-life.

I question the timing.

121 114 -I would bet O'Reilly is pro-abotion. Everything he hates about the Catholic Church has to do with restraining the sexual impulse and O clearly has trouble there.

122 I wonder if life insurance is expensive for abortionists?

123 The perp should be caught and tried with extreme prejudice, noone has the right just to shoot folks down in the street no matter what they did, that's what the courts are for IMO.

124 I think Tiller makes 8.

Not saying it's okay, but it's hardly a trend.

Posted by: Kensington at May 31, 2009 12:30 PM (qqg/5)

True but the MSM doesn't understand numbers and how they can be applied to things.  At all.  Otherwise they'd change their behavior to get some better numbers.  We're gonna be hearing about this forever and a day. 

The New Black Panther Voter Intimidation suit that the chinless coward at DOJ dropped after it was already won has been forgotten already.

125 So let me get this straight, here:  abortion is murder, but murder ISN'T murder?  Is that the 'logic' that some of you are following?

And there's your left-wing talking point, no matter what conservatives say about it...

126 I do find it odd though that someone would do such a thing in broad daylight in front of so many witnesses in their own car. Sounds fishy.

127 "113 I think God will be able to sort out who the real murderer was here.

I'm not highly religious, but this is one of those times I hope for a just God."

I could not agree more.....if there is no god then none of this matters....if there is one you would think the odds would not favor Mr Tiller. 

128 And knowing a lot of Hotair commenters, it's probably best AP shut those comments down.  Actually, I expect left-wing trolls to descend on all major conservative sites soon with the "way to go" comments.

129 Posted by: 'Nam Grunt at May 31, 2009 01:14 PM (XooSV)

The courts won't do anything about the very type of murder they declared a constitutional right.

130

From the Church's mission statement:

Our jobs do not define us. We are defined by our family – we are children of God. But why are we here? God chooses to use our hands and feet, our eyes, ears and voices to tell the story of God coming to earth for people. God uses us, sinful people, to tell others the great story of a love that is stronger than death. Grace. Faith. Joy

131 By the way, has anyone here heard Dr. Nathanson speak?

132

see i told you wingnuts that you should get over your fixation with abortion!

my girlfriend in bed next to me is laughing at you

Posted by: palin stale at May 31, 2009 01:13 PM (tjUml)

I suspected for quite some time that pro-choicers actually want abortionists to get shot just so they can play victim and bash it over their political opponents' heads. Thanks for the confirmation.

133 @131   I have. Bernard Nathanson, ex-abortionist.

134 I'm sure not long after the perpetrator is apprehended, we will hear all about what books they have been reading, and what websites they visited.

135 Glad he's dead.

There, I said it.

136 6

Tiller just got aborted in his 242nd trimester.

Posted by: gator at May 31, 2009 12:08 PM (yUiO3)

Heh.

It's like Chris Rock said about OJ:

"I don't agree with it, but I understand."

That's not murder enthusiasm or assassination boosterism.  Is it?  (Nice turn of phrase, Ace.)

Just to be clear, then, I do not condone this.  My understanding is that public opinion on abortion is moving in the favorable direction.  Until this, anyway.

137 128 And knowing a lot of Hotair commenters, it's probably best AP shut those comments down.  Actually, I expect left-wing trolls to descend on all major conservative sites soon with the "way to go" comments.

Posted by: brak at May 31, 2009 01:16 PM (ZZKow)

Will they be riding black, unmarked helicopters?

138 117

Ace trusts his commenters and readers to be able to talk about this.

Thanks, Ace. I mean it.

Posted by: Who Knows at May 31, 2009 01:13 PM (0aQsc)

Ace has a much higher tolerance for just about anything. If this comments thread was happening at hotair, most of us would be banned.

139 Just remember, thousands of terrorist attacks by Muslims against non-Muslims does not mean we can indict all the Muslim world. But one anti-abortion nut who murders an abortionist
DOES indict the entire pro-life movement. This is known as the McVeigh Rule.... Hope! Change! Bullshit!

140 Posted by: Juicer at May 31, 2009 01:21 PM (geKv3)

No but they'd be using nicks like "Juicer".

141 I'm horrified.

142

From the Church's mission statement:

Our jobs do not define us. We are defined by our family – we are children of God. But why are we here? God chooses to use our hands and feet, our eyes, ears and voices to tell the story of God coming to earth for people. God uses us, sinful people, to tell others the great story of a love that is stronger than death. Grace. Faith. Joy

So, according to Tiller's own church's mission statement, both he and his murderer were doing God's work by fulfilling their purpose?

143

I can't believe we haven't been slammed with idiots yet. 

Posted by: momma at May 31, 2009 01:06 PM (penCf)

Has anybody visited the nutjob sites (DU, Kos, Huffpo etc.) to see what they're saying?

144 Anti abortionists, America's Taliban.

145

see i told you wingnuts that you should get over your fixation with abortion!

my boyfriend girlfriend in bed next to me is laughing at you

FIFY

146

#133 Who Knows

--Wasn't it an eye-opening experience? He was of course, more than just any ex-abortionist but the founder of NARAL. 

I saw him tell his story at FSU back in the 90s.  Afterward, there was a Q&A (if I recall, it was done with written questions to keep things more civil).  Most of the audience was students, so I assume most of the questions were from that cohort, and they were the usual stale pro-abortion fare: rape/incest (to which Nathanson gave a very thought-provoking reply), blah-blah-blah.

As I was sitting there, I was thinking about how surreal it was: here were these callow students trying to stump the very man responsible for planting these talking points in the culture before they were born with stock pro-abortion questions.

147 ^{"Has anybody visited the nutjob sites (DU, Kos, Huffpo etc.) to see what they're saying?"}

Some of Althouse's Moonbats are giving it a go.  One guy choose to open with the approach outlined in 139 above.  Douchebags.

148 Anti abortionists, America's Taliban.

Posted by: Wendy at May 31, 2009 01:24 PM (ArhHd)

Funny, i thought the Taliban Liberals were killing children for just being there going to school.

149 I can tell you that whoever did it will be prosecuted and sentenced with extreme prejudice. I don't care about the person who shot him before but she's still in prison after 16 years when low life murdering scum are released sooner. I assume she has not expressed regret to the parole board.

150

151

my girlfriend in bed next to me is laughing at you

Posted by: palin stale at May 31, 2009 01:13 PM (tjUml)

No she's laughing at your pathetic attempt to satisfy her which, considering that she doesn't have a restraining order out on you, suggests she's your mother or another close relative.

152

Amen, Donna @ 90

  Thats what Jesus' message  "do not judge lest ye be judged" is about. We're can judge someones actions but don't have the right to judge the final state of his soul, or commit any evil act in the hopes good will come of it.

For all we know he may have repented that morning when he woke up.

The final judgement is Gods alone.

153 (Shhhh, palin stale is a froll.)

154 What better way for a devout Christian to demonstrate their committment to their faith than by shooting someone in front of a Church on Sunday morning?

155

@146

Indeed, logprof. I agree 100%.

156 Posted by: Wendy at May 31, 2009 01:24 PM (ArhHd)

Yeah, being called the Taliban by pro-choice nazis (my apologies to nazis, at least they weren't giant pussies who targeted people who couldn't defend themselves exclusively) responsible for hundreds of millions murdered worldwide is really having an impact right now. I think I finally see a light at the end of the tunnel... oh, it's just my monitor, never mind.

157 In his memory, I've just donated $2,000.00 to PlannedParenthood.org.

158 144 Anti abortionists, America's Taliban.

Posted by: Wendy at May 31, 2009 01:24 PM (ArhHd)

--Wow, what a shrew political insight.  How many years of poli-sci at Harvard did it take to come up with that?

159 I can tell you that whoever did it will be prosecuted and sentenced with extreme prejudice. I don't care about the person who shot him before but she's still in prison after 16 years when low life murdering scum are released sooner. I assume she has not expressed regret to the parole board.

Posted by: polynikes at May 31, 2009 01:27 PM (WAnJi)

Let's hope, then, that the assassin is never cought. Unless it's his vindictive gay lover or something.

160 Well, I have to say well done, social engineers and judicial activists.  Well done. 

I can see that you've really thought this whole "let's just bypass the whole legislative process/civil discourse mess and impose our policy preferences on the nation as a whole via the judiciary" thing through.

 A man getting gunned down in a church.  That's some beautiful fuckin' utopia you guys are building.

161 154  And you heard that the killer was a devout Christian where?  You got news on the perp from what source?  Please share, since none of the major newscasters have, to my knowledge, ID'd him yet.

Oh, you're assuming it was a Christian because you're a rancid bigot who is secretly delighted at this murder because of the delicious talking points it equips her with?  Gotcha.

Qwinn

162

For all we know he may have repented that morning when he woke up.

The final judgement is Gods alone.

Posted by: cbs at May 31, 2009 01:28 PM (WS4Kf)

Do you think the same about convicted criminals on death row? The only difference here is that there are enough libtard mass murderer fascists to provide legal cover for him. I don't think he was killed because he was evil, he was killed because he caused harm to others and the murderer couldn't take it anymore and decided to put a stop to it. If he murdered people simply because the target was evil he wouldn't have gotten to be 50.

163 What better way for a devout Christian to demonstrate their committment to their faith than by shooting someone in front of a Church on Sunday morning?

Objection. Assumes facts not in evidence.

164 When will you dumb fucks ever learn that it's my body and I'll decide what I do with it. I won't be dictated to by some home-schooled illiterate from the Southern States.

165 (Shhhh, palin stale is a froll.)

Posted by: logprof at May 31, 2009 01:28 PM (tjUml)

Ya know, I noticed that almost immediately after hitting the "post" button.  Which makes me almost as dumb as that simple twat Wendy, although I'm sure I smell better.

166 Will this be considered a hate crime?

167 Yeesh, are these the best trolls axelturd can send?

Wendy is just pitiful, a subretard barfing out bumper sticker slogans.

Up your game or leave.

168

From the NBC account:

 

NBC News affiliate, KSN news, said the Taurus has a Kansas tag of 225BAB that is traced to a residence in Marion, Kan.

 

If they have that there is a good likelihood they know who the suspect is.

169 What better way for a devout Christian to demonstrate their committment to their faith than by shooting someone in front of a Church on Sunday morning?


Wendy,
We understand that logic has been strong with you leftys but....
How is it you assume the shooter a Christian?

170

What better way for a devout Christian to demonstrate their committment to their faith

 

 

Where's your source nutbag?  Or are you making an assoutofyourself  statement.

171 ^{"In his memory, I've just donated $2,000.00 to PlannedParenthood.org."}

That's sweet; I've just donated $4,000.00 to Human Life Alliance.

172 So can we expect Ayer's protege, Obama, to make a speech about how we cannot tolerate domestic terrorism?

173 Those who make peaceful change impossible, make violent change inevitable.

174 --and the trolls have been released!

175

Wendy is my gf

to celebrate, we're getting an abortion next week

176 (Shhhh, palin stale is a froll.)

Wendy may be one also. It can be hard to tell sometimes.

177

I have a question. Just one question:

With the violent death of this trained and proficient medical butcher, how many innocents will now be carried to term and grow up as Americans, instead of ending up as bloody pulp in a medical waste container?

I think that's a fair question. And I think the answer is not irrelevant.

178 I would never sanction the murder of another human being. But the Left is always railing about asking "why do they hate us?" and blaming certain "foreign policies" that lead terrorists to commit terror. This murderer of the abortionist is no LESS a terrorist than some ME doucher. I hope the killer of the doctor gets arrested and prosecuted harshly. But, will the Left wonder "why" this terrorist hates the abortion doctor? - "why do they hate us?" type bullshit? Will they consider perhaps their own "domestic policies" might lead a nutter to murder someone? Nah, probably not. Suddenly things get clean-cut and black and white pretty quickly. Authorities better nail this nut.

179 what a waste of good ammo.

180

I have to agree with an earlier post.  Either this guy is incredibly stupid, crazy, or something else is going on.   I mean murder someone in broad daylight, in a public place, and escape in an easily identifible vehicle?

"Police said they are looking for white male who was driving a 1990s powder blue Ford Taurus with Kansas license plate 225 BAB. The vehicle is registered to an owner in Merriam, which is in the Kansas City area."

 

181 Obviously this murder was carried out by some mentally ill and obsessed defective.

Ending a complicated pregnancy to mitigate risk to a woman in late term (second trimester) is the equivalent in some folks eyes

This doc was murdered because the law isn't what the shooter wished. He wrote his own, and killed to end the doctor's life and to terrorize anyone like him. If you don't feel sorry for the doc, fine, but you had better care about crazies determining the "real" law and to make sure you obey theirs.

182 "161 154  And you heard that the killer was a devout Christian where?  You got news on the perp from what source?  Please share, since none of the major newscasters have, to my knowledge, ID'd him yet.

Oh, you're assuming it was a Christian because you're a rancid bigot who is secretly delighted at this murder because of the delicious talking points it equips her with?  Gotcha.

Qwinn

Posted by: Qwinn at May 31, 2009 01:32 PM (/y1J0)"

It just needed re-stating.

183 @164

When will you dumb fucks ever learn that it's my body and I'll decide what I do with it. I won't be dictated to by some home-schooled illiterate from the Southern States.

And to think I called Wendy a subretard!

She's just given me my new argument against socialized healthcare!

Thanks libtard!

184 When will you dumb fucks ever learn that it's my body and I'll decide what I do with it. I won't be dictated to by some home-schooled illiterate from the Southern States.


Hear Hear!
It's my house and basement and I'll do whatever the fuck I want to with my daughter and her incestuously bred children. Right on Baby!

185 This doc was murdered because the law isn't what the shooter wished. He wrote his own

I guess he did not care for the one the court wrote. The moral of the story is, let the people make their own damn law.

186 Wendy at May 31, 2009 01:33 PM (ArhHd)

No, it's not, you cupid stunt.

187  164 When will you dumb fucks ever learn that it's my body and I'll decide what I do with it. I won't be dictated to by some home-schooled illiterate from the Southern States.

Posted by: Wendy at May 31, 2009 01:33 PM (ArhHd)"

Aw yes, but QUICK - kill that baby before she has a chance to decide anything about her life. 

188 184  You know, that was brilliant.  I mean, it -sounds- like a flawed analogy, but the "obvious" response to it is "That analogy sucks, "my body" doesn't include my children... o wait..."

Heh.  Bravo.

Qwinn

189 Wendy, even though you have the choice, and like having the choice you still wouldn't do it, would you? You wouldn't look at an ultrasound of the baby sleeping and growing in your womb and have it hacked into pieces and sucked out of you like some sort of cancerous tumor?

190 "164 When will you dumb fucks ever learn that it's my body and I'll decide what I do with it. I won't be dictated to by some home-schooled illiterate from the Southern States.

Posted by: Wendy at May 31, 2009 01:33 PM (ArhHd) "

Notice how as we don't become inflamed, she gets more and more bitter.

There are two bodies that are affected by an abortion--one significantly more than the other.

191 Ending a complicated pregnancy to mitigate risk to a woman in late term (second trimester) is the equivalent in some folks eyes

Posted by: SarahW at May 31, 2009 01:38 PM (r/1UT)

Stupid bitch.

Of the 1,900 questioned, 420 had been pregnant for 16 or more weeks. These 420 women were asked to choose among a list of reasons they had not obtained the abortions earlier in their pregnancies. The results were as follows:[3]

* 71% Woman didn’t recognize she was pregnant or misjudged gestation
* 48% Woman found it hard to make arrangements for abortion
* 33% Woman was afraid to tell her partner or parents
* 24% Woman took time to decide to have an abortion
* 8% Woman waited for her relationship to change
* 8% Someone pressured woman not to have abortion
* 6% Something changed after woman became pregnant
* 6% Woman didn’t know timing is important
* 5% Woman didn’t know she could get an abortion
* 2% A fetal problem was diagnosed late in pregnancy
* 11% Other

192 On a lighter note - Wendy, a dude has to want to bang you before you have to go about aborting the little bastard. 

193 It might not stop late term abortions but it will probably at least delay the ones scheduled for tomorrow.

194 "Vengeance is Mine, sayeth the Lord."

Yeah, it tics me off sometimes too, but there you go. I'm hoping against hope this perp isn't a religious nut, but I'm almost positive it will turn out that way, which means we'll be hearing wailing and gnashing of teeth from the left for... EVAR.

195

wendy wants women to be able to choose to have an abortion and doesn't want illiterate homeschoolers ot dictate to her what to do with her body?

 

but yet she and all the othe rnannystate sluts want to dictate to us what we can eat and cannot eat[don't lie and say on you don't]

 

by the way i'am a homeschooler you cocksniffing whore and i'am smarter than you

196 Nothing gets the Left creamier in the crotch than seeing one of their heroes bleeding on the pavement. They relish the martyrdom. Sure, someone suffers. But who cares? As long as it helps the agenda.

197

Wow, a dumb southerner joke.  So fresh and original.  

Wendy, do yourself a favor and read about Margaret Sanger and negative eugenics before calling right-to-lifers the Taliban.  She was one of the founders of Planned Parenthood.  Her policies towards the unborn would make Hitler proud.

 

 

 

198 164 When will you dumb fucks ever learn that it's my body and I'll decide what I do with it. I won't be dictated to by some home-schooled illiterate from the Southern States.
Posted by: Wendy at May 31, 2009 01:33 PM (ArhHd)

Wendy wants to have abortions, she just has a hard time getting pregnant. Hence, the venom.

Hey Wendy, if you're going to live your life like there is no God, you better be right.

199 sorry for the typos don't want a superior chick such as wendy to call me an illiterate kike

200

I won't be dictated to by some home-schooled illiterate from the Southern States.

 

If you had a home-schooled Southern man “dictating” to you you wouldn’t be posting in bed with a subhuman retard like palin steele. You would be well educated and posting logical dissertations on philosophical matters. The only problem would be you would have to wait until you were retired like me because you would be spending most all of your time working long hours in a high paying job and paying high taxes.

201 You have a guy that kills babies in the 3rd term - and I'm suppose to not feel happy that someone took him out....GIVE.ME.A.BREAK......for those people freaking out over this ask yourself:  would you feel the same way if  someone starting killing german soldiers that work at Dachau?    A great evil has been going on in Kansas - and that evil - at least for the short term - has been stopped....

It's vigilantism, plain and simple, and can not be condoned in a civilized society.  We have a political system as a vehicle for change.   Besides, the germans at Dachau were soldiers in a declared war; there's a difference.

Tiller should have been arrested and prosecuted for his crimes by society, not gunned down by a lunatic playing God.

Completely off point, but the issue of abortion was not expected to be a major issue in Sontomayor's confirmation hearing.  Now it sure will be.

202 Wendy...another pro-choicer who has already been born.

203

When will you dumb fucks ever learn that it's my body and I'll decide what I do with it. I won't be dictated to by some home-schooled illiterate from the Southern States.

What's that? You're an individual now? I thought you dumb fucks were all about the collective? Oh, that changes when it involves abortion. I see.

204 my girlfriend in bed next to me is laughing at you

I honestly doubt that's what she's laughing at.

205 This doc was murdered because the law isn't what the shooter wished. He wrote his own, and killed to end the doctor's life and to terrorize anyone like him. If you don't feel sorry for the doc, fine, but you had better care about crazies determining the "real" law and to make sure you obey theirs.


Sarah,
I agree with you to an extent. But you may consider that there are alot of people in this country who think there are higher laws than those on the books. The laws may be in contradiction to the Constitution or the Bible. Not necessarily saying the last is the standard for law or moral living but some folks do use it as such.

206 You know what would be perfect? If it turned out that the killer was from the Westboro Baptist Church.

207 "Ending a complicated pregnancy to mitigate risk to a woman in late term (second trimester) is the equivalent in some folks eyes "

With all due respect, SarahW, how many women die each year because they carry a dangerous pregnancy to term instead of choosing a late-term abortion?

208 It's vigilantism, plain and simple, and can not be condoned in a civilized society. 
Posted by: Ombudsman at May 31, 2009 01:46 PM (fWF4Q)

What do you have against Batman?

btw, the American independence war was vigilantism too.

209 196 Nothing gets the Left creamier in the crotch than seeing one of their heroes bleeding on the pavement. They relish the martyrdom. Sure, someone suffers. But who cares? As long as it helps the agenda.

Posted by: jaleach at May 31, 2009 01:43 PM (gHrZU)

--Seconded. As I mentioned before (wrt a poster hoping "nothing bad happens" to 0bama's illgal immigrant aunt), lefties crave that shit: whether a rash of anti-Muslim lynchings after 9/11 (didn't happen), race riots after 0bama wins (didn't happen) or open season on abortuaries (hardly).

It's win-win-win for them: their closest equivalent to martyrdom, a chance to paint people who disagree with them as animals, and a chance to trash America as uncivilized.

210 When will you dumb fucks ever learn that it's my body and I'll decide what I do with it. I won't be dictated to by some home-schooled illiterate from the Southern States.

Even these "home-schooled illiterates" realize that it takes two decisions to make an abortion necessary: having sex, and having unprotected sex.

You have two opportunities to "decide what to do with it" that make abortion unnecessary if you make an intelligent choice. But for sociopaths like yourself, why bother making an intelligent choice when you can just kill the negative outcome of it?

211 Posted by: digitalbrownshirt at May 31, 2009 01:47 PM (/O0iM)

No, perfect would be if the killer worked for Planned Parenthood.

212 Why have all the news stories removed the license place info in their updates?  It was in the earlier stories . . .

213 Fred, many of the pregnancies ended are those severely complicated by disease, malformation, or maternal health problems. Many would not survive to term, let alone through infancy or to adulthood. I don't know why people seem to think late term abortions are done mainly to prevent parenthood, instead of mitigate damage from preganancy gone wrong.

214 All you have to do to get people wanting to kill you these days is to have any fame whatsoever.

215

Ending a complicated pregnancy to mitigate risk to a woman in late term (second trimester) is the equivalent in some folks eyes

Difficult pregnancy= An imperfect baby. Downs syndrome for instance. Wonder why the incidence of Downs Syndrome babies is down? Becuase we encourage women to kill them off before birth. We do so with the full knowledge that the Downs tests are imperfect thus gauranteeing the death of not only the untermenchen but the incorrectly diagnosed healthy babies as well. Sweat, huh?

 

216 Wendy wants to have abortions, she just has a hard time getting pregnant. Hence, the venom.

I feel her pain.

217 How about we sit tight until we get the facts.

218

Although she doesn't give numbers for it, something Kathy Shaidle likes saying about this sort of thing is that more abortionists have been killed on Law & Order than in real life.

And I don't know if middle-aged morons or older here remember the short-lived 1981 series, but I recall an episode of Today's FBI about an abortion clinic arson. (A renewal of the 1960's FBI series.)

The rookie woman made it clear she was pro-abortion; while we never did discover the more-veteran, male agent's opinion as he made pro- and anti- talking points in his dialogue. At the end of the show the rookie asks him pointblank, and he tells her something along the lines of her not knowing his opinion is because it's immaterial to them doing their job and she had let her opinions colour her views in the case. [The abortionist had been responsible for the arson as an insurance scam.]

And I'm almost certain that the show ended showing a stat about how most period [i.e. 1981 and earlier] U.S. abortion clinic arsons were perpetrated by the abortionists or staff themselves. (I've tried googling around for similar stats' reports, but they're drowned out by the MSM stories about Erich Rudolph or the like and not hard stats about arson and convictions. And the FBI site didn't help for something so specific.)

219

Can't say I'm too broken up about this. But having said that, we do not know yet what the motive of the as yet unknown killeer was.

I'm under the mind that if a person is sick enough to perform near-term abortions, he may just be involved in other equally morally reprehensible activities.

Let this play itself out

220 #32" "Can anybody say "Reichstag Fire.""

No, I think #48 is closer in analogies: it was the assassination in Paris of a German diplomat in 1938 by a Jewish man who was distraught over the deaths of his parents due to their forced expulsion from Germany that led to the wave of violent reprisals against German Jews - Kristallnacht.

So, has Obama set the date for the state funeral yet?

221 Shooting this guy was wrong, and not *winkwink* wrong.  While there might seem to be symmetry to some, I don't agree.  His abortion practice was awful, but it's giving in to a means-justifies-ends argument to say that this justifies killing him.

About the only thing I can hope is that the shooter is Fred Phelps.

And while the odds are high that this is a deranged anti-abortion activist, the possibility of a false-flag op should not be discounted.  It wasn't a John Birch Society member who shot JFK.  It wasn't a white guy in a van who shot all those people in Washington, DC a few years back.  If the guy arrested looks like a patsy, he may very well be.  Dr Tiller's career was drawing to a close, his utility to the pro-abortion movement was drawing to a close but now he'll be a martyr for them for years.

If that shooter was standing right in front of me now, I'd beat the hell out of him.  What a moron.

222 Number of abortion doctors killed since Roe, including this one: 3

Number of unborn babies killed since Roe: 46,000,000+

Which gets the news story?

223

@164:

Yes, right there and with your prior posts, you have shown your (1) anti-faith bigotry, (2) anti-rural bigotry, (3) anti-Southern bigotry, and you're just getting started! Wow, such vigorous and pinheaded hate in such a small, idiotic package. Sure, your body is your own, but that ends at the placental wall, sweetie. That "bundle of cells" you leftist bigots refer to is genetically distinct from you, is innocent of any wrongdoing no matter how you got pregnant, and if left alone, is fully fucking viable no matter the choplogic and semantic gymnastics you perform to rationalize murder for convenience.

And if you follow Roe v Wade, eventually all implanted embryos will be technologically "viable" in the future with artificial wombs, so that means . . .  that the "non-child" you "eliminate" today would be considered a full human being tomorrow - which morally means that you, no matter what, killed an innocent human being and avoided prosecution by playing with semantics.

But logic and sense makes no difference to Leftists who glorify hatred against Christians, against "rural people", and against regions they hold irrational views about ('flyover states', etc). You're just KKK members with lattes and an affected North Eastern nasal twang.

224 Korn Kat Annie, that's a misdirection. Women should manage their risks in real time according to their individual situations.

225 And still not on Drudge. Huh.

226 When will you dumb fucks ever learn that it's my body and I'll decide what I do with it. I won't be dictated to by some home-schooled illiterate from the Southern States.

I love the cogency of liberal argument.  No argument is presented, right to the non-sequitur and ad hominem attacks.

1. I disagree, so you are obviously "a dumb fuck"
2. I disagree, so therefore you must be "home schooled"  and "illiterate" (i.e. a veiled, snide anti-Christian allusion.  Also, the fact that the author is posting on this blog makes the "illiterate" comment asinine)
3. I disagree, so therefore you must be "Southern", (as in a Red-State prejudiced boob who has no teeth, screws his sister, and votes Republican")

Be happy to debate the issue.  Just come back when you have some substance to put on the table.

227 I wasn't aware that Kansas was a southern state .
Thanks Wendy, I don't know how we ever got by without you.
My son is home schooled . His geographical knowledge is better than yours.

228 Clearly this was done by the White House in order to distract public attention from Obama's "NYC Date Nite" and to grease the skids for Sotomayer...


And no, I'm not paranoid.  Why do you ask?  Did THEY tell you to ask?

229

SarahW

Could you give us a number of how many get late term abortions for the reasons you mention? Everything I've seen indicates it's primarily for convenience.

230 212 Why have all the news stories removed the license place info in their updates?  It was in the earlier stories . . .

Posted by: CB at May 31, 2009 01:49 PM (9Wv2j) 

Perhaps there are innocent people at the address of that license plate that don't deserve what the uberlefties are about to unleash on them.

231 213 Fred, many of the pregnancies ended are those severely complicated by disease, malformation, or maternal health problems.

Posted by: SarahW at May 31, 2009 01:49 PM (r/1UT)

Someone called you on this bullshit already. Where's your reply?

232

i feel her pain

So do i Mrs Garrison

233 Here's the thing: According to leftist womyn like Wendy and Sarah:

1. Partial Birth Abortion is OK.

2. Harvesting Embryonic Stem Cells is OK.

3.Killing people who are in persistent vegetative states is OK.

So, to the moral construct of these people, there can be no moral objection to:

1. Creating a cloned embryo.

2. Growing it to late term pregnancy, than lobotomizing it.

3. Allowing it to mature in a brain damaged state for organ harvesting.

Since all of the the steps leading to organ harvest are okay, there's no problem with creating human organ farms... is there?

234 "206 You know what would be perfect? If it turned out that the killer was from the Westboro Baptist Church."

*snicker* Okay, I have to admit that would make my day.

235 12 @ 12:32
"Tiller was a mass murderer and his killer emulated him. May God have mercy on both their souls."--C.L.

I don't endorse murder at any age, though I do endorse capital punishment.

I don't endorse telling God what to do with horrible murderers. Why ask God to give those horrible souls leniency if we're not willing to give them leniency after conviction? I'm not sure how wise it is to ask God to have mercy on the souls of murderers. What if there's the reincarnation or karma thing going on,  we'd be willing that kind of evil back in our midst.

236 213 Fred, many of the pregnancies ended are those severely complicated by disease, malformation, or maternal health problems.

Disease, malformation or maternal health problems defined by Tiller? Paleeeese.

Wanna know how many times people have told me that the 'test' showed a problem with the baby and the woman went on to deliver a perfectly normal child?

No?  Didn't think so.

237 224 Korn Kat Annie, that's a misdirection. Women should manage their risks in real time according to their individual situations.

Posted by: SarahW at May 31, 2009 01:52 PM (r/1UT)

No misdirection, unless you are referring to your spin to cover the lack of answering my question.  I'd like to see your stats to support Dr. Tiller's clinic. 

238 Let there be no mistake: my students know how to play this. One death is a tragedy; [40] million merely a statistic.

239 Great , last piece in the puzzle for a total fascist lock down, and the media needed something to divert attention . They better find this guy dead by self inflicted trauma.

240 SarahW is a leftist huh?

Okay.

241 Leftist = someone who disagrees with me.

242 it would be even funnier  if Tiller orchestrated his own death

243 Since all of the the steps leading to organ harvest are okay, there's no problem with creating human organ farms... is there?

Posted by: V the K at May 31, 2009 01:57 PM (d2fuu)

Why bother? They'd rather harvest organs out of the useless homeschooled southerners.

Sucking babies' brains is for fun and recreation, not for the sake of advancing science.

244 We live in a society where we still have the chance to speak against an change abortion law and abortions are not forced. People who use violence to deal with the matter (not sure if the killer here had that motive yet) are just helping push us into a situation where our ability to criticize and change laws will be curtailed.

If they can't see the matter as being wrong on it's face, they should think about the above.

245 Posted by: ace at May 31, 2009 02:01 PM (gEsIJ)

She's talking shit with nothing to back it up so she has that part down at least.

246

all of the post-viable partial-birth (dilation and extraction) abortion procedures performed in Kansas during that year were performed because "the attending physician believe[d] that continuing the pregnancy [would] constitute a substantial and irreversible impairment of the patient's mental function."

That would be 100% of the late term abortions that Tiller performed in a year, Sarah. Do you still wonder why people think that late term abortions are often done for convenience?

And why did Tiller have these woman diagnosed as about to go crazy if they continued their pregnancies? Because the law left him that hole to climb through since few late term abortions are found to be medically necessary.

247

In his memory, I've just donated $2,000.00 to PlannedParenthood.org.

I guess Wendy's done with her hit-and-run but if she's still reading... Hey, Wendy, send Ace a screencap of your receipt for that $2,000 donation. I'm sure he'll post it or link to it to show that you're not lying about that. Oh, and I just put $5,000 in Ace's tip jar to ensure he posts your receipt's screencap.

BTW, isn't if funny that killing an unborn girl in China or elsewhere in the non-Western world is looked upon as killing by the feminist left, but if that same Chinese woman hopped on a plane to the U.S., it would be her right to kill that same "collection of unrelated, simple cells".

248

Sarah W is misguided imho

249 Not calling her a leftist, Ace, just wondering what stats she has to support the idea that Dr. Tiller was only performing late-term abortions because of "severely complicated by disease, malformation, or maternal health problems" .

250 I don't get the claims of "Reichstag Fire" and etc. when there are people unabashedly saying they approve of, or at least do not mind, the shooting.

Seems like a have-your-cake-and-eat-it-too fantasy scenario.

251 BTW, isn't if funny that killing an unborn girl in China or elsewhere in the non-Western world is looked upon as killing by the feminist left, but if that same Chinese woman hopped on a plane to the U.S., it would be her right to kill that same "collection of unrelated, simple cells".

Good point.  The feminists go berserk at the thought of sex-selection abortions, but abortions for convenience?  Not so much.

252 In his memory, I've just donated $2,000.00 to PlannedParenthood.org.

How many dead babies were you hoping for with that donation? And isn't it nice that the "pro-choice" crowd are specifically acting to take away all possible choices from the beings most affected by their decisions?

253 V the K called her one. I happen to know it's not true.

254 SarahW is not a leftist, but she is a dumb bitch mindlessly spewing out untruthful leftist talking points - which makes her persona politique a total non-issue.

255 Is it really that inconceivable that the killer might have been pro-choice themselves?  I take something of a state's rights view of the abortion issue, but I guess I'm technically pro-choice... and I was majorly creeped out by this doctor.  I'll never understand the the extremist pro-choice position where a baby isn't a baby until it actually comes out of a woman's vagina.

This could very well have been a political assassination committed by a pro-life zealot, but it could just as easily have been committed by someone with a more personal stake... how many of the late-term abortions were performed by this doctor against the wishes of the would-be fathers?

256

32 Can anybody say "Reichstag Fire."

First three words that came to mind when I saw Ace's headline were: Gun.Control. Martyr.

257

Is it just me or do some of the posters seem like mobys ?

258 I heard Wendy got artificially inseminated just so she could get a late term abortion and be awarded her womyn's card.

259 "We live in a society where we still have the chance to speak against an change abortion law"

We do?  Um.  I don't think that's been true since 1973.  I mean, we can speak about it but we have 0% chance of getting the law changed.

Ace:

I don't get the claims of "Reichstag Fire" and etc. when there are people unabashedly saying they approve of, or at least do not mind, the shooting.

Who has actually said this?  I don't think saying we're not going to shed tears for this guy (and I won't) means we don't want the killer to be prosecuted, whoever it is.

Qwinn

260 "242 it would be even funnier if Tiller orchestrated his own death."

We have a winner!

Dream scenario: Tiller was terminally ill, had high insurance payout for violent/accidental death, but not for extended care. Hired a lackey, and had himself shot.

Left goes insane until all of this comes out, and then says never mind.

261 250 I don't get the claims of "Reichstag Fire" and etc. when there are people unabashedly saying they approve of, or at least do not mind, the shooting.

Seems like a have-your-cake-and-eat-it-too fantasy scenario.

Posted by: ace at May 31, 2009 02:07 PM (gEsIJ)

True. For some people.The rest of us are wondering WTF is wrong with the shooter.

262

Keep in mind that, creepy as he was, Tiller did not kidnap helpless women and force them to have late-term abortions.

Who ARE these ghastly women who ask doctors to kill their babies?

Everything about this is dreadful and hellish, especially the repercusions that will be visited upon us all.

Shreiking Pelosi will be in hysterics at this loss to the abortion industry.

 

263 253 V the K called her one. I happen to know it's not true.

Posted by: ace at May 31, 2009 02:08 PM (gEsIJ)

Did not see that, sorry.  

264 Oooh!  That Wendy makes me so mad! 

She's just about pushed me over the edge and provoked me into unleashing an incoherent torrent of the ignorance and religious bigotry that constantly seethes and bubbles inside my inbred and misshapen cranium.  (And, let's be honest, all that build up of toxins due to long-term exposure to snake venom probably isn't helping things either.)

Oh, wait.  No seething, no bubbling.

Nevermind!

FYNT_roll

265 This unconscionable murder notwithstanding, I'm sure you all saw the polls last week indicating that for the first time, over half of Americans consider themselves pro-life.  The poll may be an outlier, but I think medical advances are the root of the change, specifically ultrasounds.  Women who previously considered what was in utero to be an undifferentiated blotch of cells at three months can see that it's.....a baby.

266 Another abortion related death

267

Women should manage their risks in real time according to their individual situations.

Would that the unborn could do the same.

Pray for Tiller's soul.  He's likely gonna need all that he can get.

268 When will you dumb fucks ever learn that it's my body and I'll decide what I do with it. I won't be dictated to by some home-schooled illiterate from the Southern States.

Posted by: Wendy at May 31, 2009 01:33 PM (ArhHd)
--------------------------

Go to church.

269

Disease, malformation or maternal health problems defined by Tiller? Paleeeese.
The story linked at the censored HotAir Headline post alludes to him currently being on trial for breaking the state's late-term abortion law that requires a second, independent [I assume a "doctor" not from the same clinic] doctor to agree that the late-term abortion is medically necessary. So, that pretty much shoots down* the argument that this guy was only performing late-term abortions were the woman would have literally ended up dead had she gone the few more weeks and had the child.

*No pun intended. Much.

270

Shreiking Pelosi will be in hysterics at this loss to the abortion industry.

 Posted by: Brooksie at May 31, 2009 02:10 PM (KLiFn)

The poor woman will probably need another round of Botox after this.

271 This murder is no different than a citizen killing a drug dealer because their child died from an overdose, prolly they thought it's ok but it's not!

272 "No, you're not. for the same reason you're upset about those babies being killed in the 3rd term. It's taking human life, and no one should be happy over that."

I was personally thrilled when Saddam hung, when Milosevic slumped, when Arafat croaked, and when Idi Amin died. If I would have been around, I would have drank to Stalin's death, and Mao's and Che's, and all those SOBs.

It certainly is a natural and wonderful thing when some people die. Not all, not even many. But some.

I don't put this Tiller fellow in that field. I don't. But if this man snuffed out all the babies in a nursery by drilling holes in their heads, well, I am rather sympathetic to the "See you in hell, bastard" chorus.

Again, at the present moment, many people, absolutely innocent people, men, women, and children, are suffering. I'll save my human sympathy for them and give Tiller his chance with God for his.

273 GOOD.

274 Posted by: andycanuck at May 31, 2009 02:11 PM (MB+jN)

I read somewhere that he had a doctor on staff in his clinic who provided the "second opinion."  Since I can't remember where I read it, I don't know if it's true or not, but it seems plausible.

275 Does anyone know of any statistics re: the number of abortions per woman, for those who have had abortions?  I'd be interested to know if it's closer to 1, or closer to 10.  In other words, is it a case of women making a "mistake", learning their lesson, and moving on, versus women who basically use abortion as a means of birth control.

276 I'll never understand the the extremist pro-choice position where a baby isn't a baby until it actually comes out of a woman's vagina.

You mean coming out head first, because they forcibly pull it out feet first before puncturing its skull and sucking out its brains? That way, it's not a baby yet.

277 Kansas state law allows a person to use deadly force to protect their own life and the lives of others.  If life begins at conception, then the act was justified.  QED.

278

269- The state found in his trial that ALL of the partial birth abortions Tiller performed were for the "mental health of the mother".

 

 

 

 

 

SarahW's redherrings do not stand.

279 Oh, and it looks like Allah shut down the comments on his headline post of this.

Posted by: Johnny at May 31, 2009 12:29 PM (xVKXy)

 

They don't want O'Reilly whining about HA posts.

280 You mean coming out head first, because they forcibly pull it out feet first before puncturing its skull and sucking out its brains? That way, it's not a baby yet.

Posted by: Robin at May 31, 2009 02:14 PM (eXxvs)

Yeah.

281

When will you dumb fucks ever learn that it's my body property and I'll decide what I do with it.

Spoken like a true southern gentleman.  Circa 1860.

Don't forget they hung John Brown.

282

Who ARE these ghastly women who ask doctors to kill their babies?

And their (sometimes) abusive "boyfriends".

283 "When will you dumb fucks ever learn that it's my body and I'll decide what I do with it."

When are you selfish bitches going to learn that when you get yourselves fucked and pregnant, you've made a contract with God to bring the baby to term, and that it's not just YOUR body anymore?

284 212 Why have all the news stories removed the license place info in their updates?  It was in the earlier stories . . .

Probably for privacy considerations.  The car may not even belong to the shooter.

285

#269 ...late-term abortions were where the woman would...

286 When will you dumb fucks ever learn that it's my body and I'll decide what I do with it. I won't be dictated to by some home-schooled illiterate from the Southern States.

Posted by: Wendy at May 31, 2009 01:33 PM (ArhHd) 

Wendy dear, I don't think anyone really gives a flying flip what the hell you do with YOUR body. However, when pregnant there is a second body involved. I know that's too much for your tiny brain to comprehend. It's that body, nee life,  we don't want destroyed. Dear, just go back to laughing at palin stale's insufficient pecker there in bed and leave the thinking to those of us with more than rocks rolling in our heads.

287  Sources have told KAKE News that Wichita abortion doctor George Tiller was shot and killed this morning at his church. Sedgwick County dispatchers confirm that a suspect has been caught near Gardner, KS, on I-35

288 When will you dumb fucks ever learn that it's my body and I'll decide what I do with it. I won't be dictated to by some home-schooled illiterate from the Southern States.

Posted by: Wendy at May 31, 2009 01:33 PM (ArhHd)

Sure its your body to with as you please, so long as you don't smoke, drink, consume fois gras, transfats, dope, ad naseum.......

289 Whoa...I have no idea how the font got so big.

290 Fox online reports what suburb the car is registered to.

291

GOOD!

 

Um your not doing the prolifers any good you sack of leopard feces

292 Why is it that in some states, if a pregnant woman is killed in a car accident, two vehicular homicide charges are filed; one for the woman, one for the fetus.  The fact that the woman could have been on her way to an abortuary (love that term) is irrelevant.   Society can not have it both ways.

293 It woulf appear the gunman was no rocket scientist.

294 When will you dumb fucks ever learn that it's my body and I'll decide what I do with it. I won't be dictated to by some home-schooled illiterate from the Southern States.

Posted by: Wendy at May 31, 2009 01:33 PM (ArhHd)

I wonder if Wendy ever thought for one second that if her own mother had, had the same militant beliefs that she does concerning abortion before she was conceived , what the odds would have been that she would have been around to type out that garbage she has written above.

295 TILLER'S MURDERER -  LIKE ALL MURDERERS - DESERVES A TRIAL AND THEN - IF CONVICTED - PUNISHMENT TO THE FULLEST EXTENT OF THE LAW - EVEN THE DEATH PENALTY IF AVAILABLE.

THE MURDER OF TILLER WAS WRONG, BAD, EVIL, UNJUST ACCORDING TO LAW.

VIGILANTISM ON THE ABORTION ISSUE IS BAD.

WE NEED TO CHANGE THE CULTURE, NOT KILL ABORTIONISTS.

WE NEED TO MAKE PEOPLE CHOOSE LIFE.

FETUSES ARE GUILTY OF NOTHING AND CAN'T BE CONVICTED OF ANYTHING EXCEPT BEING UNWANTED BY THE WOMAN CARRYING HER. THEREFORE, FETUSES NEVER DESERVE TO BE ABORTED.

BUT CONVICTED MURDERERS DESERVE TO DIE.

296 This comment thread isn't doing the AoSHQ community very proud so far.

In particular I love the "SarahW is a leftist!" bleats.  God you people can be such unbelievable assholes sometimes.

I see why Allah locked down the HotAir thread.

297

I'm still trying to get my head around the fact that Tiller was actually able to sit in a church, of any type, without bursting in to flames.  Takes a lot of nerve for someone with the black stains on his soul to brazenly sit in church, but then again, who am I to say, given the black marks against my own soul (no abortions, but there was that thing in Tijuana, and . . . that . . . other stuff)?  Someone a bit more qualified than me is perhaps passing judgment on Tiller right now.  Or, at least that's the hope.  Tiller will go where he's supposed to go, for eternity.  Whether heaven, because before he died he somehow found forgiveness, or hell, because not.  Or simply an eternal dirt nap.  As will his killer, when that person is found and eventually put to death (can you doubt that this case will be one of the few death penalty cases the left will be completely behind?).  There is nothing positive about Tiller, his profession, or his death.  Just evil, and death. 

298 No one who is pro-life should be happy this happened even if they hate what Tiller was doing. The media is going to call this domestic terrorism and crucify pro-lifers. It will be interesting to see if Obama's justice department treats it as terrorism. Maybe we can ask Obama's buddy Bill Ayers what he thinks.

299 What a horrible tragedy. May he rest in peace.
But I'm still not going to cry for him.

300 Oh and WTF is wrong with the Lutherans?  Are they that hard up for congregants? 

301 I was just over at the Huffpo (so you guys don't have to) and this story is front and center with a huge headline "Kansas abortion doctor murdered at church".
I read through the first 3 pages or so of comments and it's the regular lefty rant of "religious hypocrites, right wing gun lovers and the need for a new DHS report. I did notice that one of the newer (to me anyway) sayings over there is "American Taliban". Saw that mentioned several times.

302

When will you dumb fucks ever learn that it's my body property and I'll decide what I do with it.

And on a related note that ThomasD's comment made spring to mind (although unrelated to slavery), why is it that it's a woman's body and she can do with it as she pleases (ignoring the second body involved, of course) but I don't own my body enough [or any woman does] to be able to sell a kidney if I want to? Don't I control my own body?

303 Wonder if he will be taken alive.

304 296 This comment thread isn't doing the AoSHQ community very proud so far.

In particular I love the "SarahW is a leftist!" bleats.  God you people can be such unbelievable assholes sometimes.

I see why Allah locked down the HotAir thread.

Posted by: Jeff B. at May 31, 2009 02:25 PM (5d0hS)

Accordiing to Ace, that was just one person saying it. I didn't even see the post. So apparently it's not exactly a wave of name calling. I'd still like to see her numbers to support her "facts".

 

305 Posted by: Blazer at May 31, 2009 02:24 PM (+FzLa)

GMTA, Blazer....see my #202.

306

Anyone want to place odds that the killer was the father of one of Tiller's victims?

Too made for TV?

307 Allah locked down the thread because Allah is a pansy who want someone else to pay off his student loans.

308

Good question, Robin. I am wondering how the capture will play out.

Bet that's why Drudge was waiting for a while, too.

I am intensely curious as to what the killers profile is.

309

possible

310
In particular I love the "SarahW is a leftist!" bleats.  God you people can be such unbelievable assholes sometimes.

I see why Allah locked down the HotAir thread.

Posted by: Jeff B. at May 31, 2009 02:25 PM (5d0hS)

Don't you feel even a bit of a stupid sister-fucker for not addressing the issues which led SarahW to be called the way she was called? That is, spewing out false, lying and stupid leftist propaganda talking points which have been proven dead wrong?

And yes, AP is scared of having an honest and truthful debate about a taboo moral issue, so what of it? Say hi to Charles Johnson.

311 Whoa...I have no idea how the font got so big.
Whenever you cut and paste something into Ace's comment boxes, Tami, it automatically copies the formatting of the text too. (You'll see that embedded links stay active in CnP too.) If you want to avoid it, CnP it onto your Windows Clipboard first and then paste it into the com-box.

312 Ok, thanks Andy.

313 Allah locked down the thread because Allah is a pansy who want someone else to pay off his student loans.


Allah locked down the thread because Bill O'Reilly's got him all shook to pieces.

314 Yeah, even my comment seems unseemly, so soon after the event. I suggest Ace closes comments here, just to cool tempers.

There is a thing as honesty. There is a thing also known as grace. I think we need much more grace at the present moment.

315 Anyone want to place odds that the killer was the father of one of Tiller's victims?

Too made for TV?

Posted by: ThomasD at May 31, 2009 02:29 PM (UK5R1)

I think that's very possible.

316 Is it just me or do some of the posters seem like mobys ?

Indeed.  This juicer fellow for instance.  I like the cut of his jib.

317

Too made for TV?

Coming soon to Law & Order. Although they'll change it around a bit to make the shooter a Republican party organiser from Alaska who "hears" God talking to him to "kill the abortionist wolves, Tedd, kill the abortionist wolves."

318 I did notice that one of the newer (to me anyway) sayings over there is "American Taliban". Saw that mentioned several times.

Oh, that's a common far-left meme nowadays.  They have wildly exaggerated and overblown fears of a Dominionist takeover of the US and that, to them, this is equivalent to the Taliban.  Accordingly, to support religious conservatives in any way is to underwrite their secret Dominionist agenda.  It is all religious bigotry masquerading as leftist nuance and jibber-jabber.

319 Someone asked what kind of church would have this guy? Lutheran, Presbyterian, or Episcopalian. Unfortunately, these three  denominations are in a race to see who can be a more false representative of christianity. Gay bishops, "pro-choice" and all... BTW: If you are against murder, you can't really be happy this guy was killed. Just another thing for the media to beat us over the head with.

320

#291, the poster's name was Rorschach, as in the character from "Watchmen", a particularly unsympathetic stereotyped reactionary from the mind of a deluded leftist author. Thus, it was an ironic joke posting. Somewhat literary, if you consider "Watchmen", a graphic novel, literature *(which many do).

 

321 173 Those who make peaceful change impossible, make violent change inevitable.

Posted by: flenser at May 31, 2009 01:35 PM (3YJBS)

Truer words were never spoken. While I abhor the act of the murder, I salute his willingness to take direct action.

I won't be dictated to by some home-schooled illiterate from the Southern States.

What Wendy doesn't understand is that most homeschoolers score far above their publicly educated peers on all standardized tests. How many publically educated 15-year olds do you know are going to prestigious universities?

322 The bottom line is murder is wrong. We lose the argument every time if we are outraged by one set of laws for the unborn that does not protect their right to life, but do not respect the law that protects Dr. Tillers right to life.

It's a double standard I know. But if we were a nation of laws that only we favored, I hardly think we'd live in a Democracy.

323

Don't you feel even a bit of a stupid sister-fucker for not addressing the issues which led SarahW to be called the way she was called? That is, spewing out false, lying and stupid leftist propaganda talking points which have been proven dead wrong?

And yes, AP is scared of having an honest and truthful debate about a taboo moral issue, so what of it? Say hi to Charles Johnson.

Juicer, you are emblematic of what's wrong with the comments on this blog right now, and the internet in general.  Vulgar, aggressive, stupid: the unholy trifecta.

Also, I suspect you have no real understanding of what it means to be a Christian.  For starters, it means condemning lawless murder without reservation.  Anyone who does otherwise -- who fails to follow Christ's commandment to obey the law of the land by rendering unto Caesar that which is Caesar's and unto God that which is God's -- commits the betrayal of Judas all over again.  (Remember him?  The one who betrayed Jesus because he was so infuriated at JC's refusal to become the martial vigilante warrior-messiah that Judas was looking for?) The murderer of Tiller may think that what he/she did was justified by some higher moral law, but they'll burn in hell just as much as Tiller will if they go to their grave unrepentant for what they've done.  If you think otherwise, you seriously haven't even read the goddamned New Testament: you're just freelancing, projecting your own emotional (and violent, ends-justify-means) interpretation onto Jesus' words to gratify your own instincts.

Harsh words, but the truth.  You don't have to weep for the death of this abortion doctor, but any attempt to justify it or play cute semantic games involving "yeah, BUT..." mark you, and mark you poorly.

324 People seem more concerned over whether Sarah was properly labeled a leftist than in the morality of aborting healthy late term babies... either for convenience or organ harvest.

325

a Dominionist takeover of the US

And Creationists too!!!

326 I did notice that one of the newer (to me anyway) sayings over there is "American Taliban". Saw that mentioned several times.


Gotta love that leftist reasoning.
Let's see here... If America is 70% (?) Christian and all Christians acted this fervently (assuming this guy is Christian)... Would there be a single abortion clinic not burned to the foundation, laying in smoldering ashes? Or a single abortionist not swinging from a tree?

327

As a labor and delivery nurse who sees babies born every day, all I can say is good riddance to this mass murderer, how humerous, to be praying in church of all things. Karma?

 I do hope the person who did this is prosecuted because we still are a nation of laws (well, maybe not too much anymore) However this is a disgusting, horriffic  procedure I don't care which way you try to spin it, the procedure is  NOT necessary to save the life of a mother. A simple adoption is the right thing to do. We do not treat our animals the way we treat these babies. Where the heck is PETA? I think I will start my own group called PETB, "People for the ethical treatment of babies"  After nursing school I had to assist with an abortion and finally had to tell my supervisor that I was so upset I could not continue. It was sickening to have to count body parts to make sure the fetal skeleton was complete, I help bring babies INTO THE WORLD, NOT take them out!

328 But if we were a nation of laws that only we favored, I hardly think we'd live in a Democracy.

We don't live in a democracy now, which is why these particular laws were not made by the peoples elected representatives. I wish people here would quit pretending that the current US abortion "law" represents something legitimate. It does not.

329 This will also feed the left's notion that Universal health care is a right and that no doctor can refuse to perform a medical procedure.

Any woman at any time should be able to receive an abortion on demand, or she will lose her damned mind!

Our state clinics will be so busy performing free abortions, they will have time for nothing else.

330 Kelly, God bless you.

331 325

a Dominionist takeover of the US

And Creationists too!!!

Well, that just goes without saying.

But the point is, though, that the whole "American Taliban" meme spread by the left really just enables them to make stupid lazy false equivalencies, e.g., "we have no right to complain about how backwards the ME is, look, we have our own Taliban!"

332

The world now has one less dirtbag.  I'm supposed to get all pensive and reflective before speaking? 

I cannot agree with the method  and I do think justice needs to be served on the culprit.  It is sad and pathetic that abortion has now left his life in ruins.  Will you pray for him also?   Will anyone on the left?

Fine.  Now just don't ask me to like any of it.

 

333 I followed the SarahW thread.

Perhaps she is not a leftist, but her responses on this particular issue are decidedly favorable to the left point of view.

334

Juicer, you are emblematic of what's wrong with the comments on this blog right now, and the internet in general.  Vulgar, aggressive, stupid: the unholy trifecta.

Posted by: Jeff B. at May 31, 2009 02:40 PM (5d0hS) 

-------------------------------

In particular I love the "SarahW is a leftist!" bleats.  God you people can be such unbelievable assholes sometimes.

I see why Allah locked down the HotAir thread.

Posted by: Jeff B. at May 31, 2009 02:25 PM (5d0hS)

335 After nursing school I had to assist with an abortion and finally had to tell my supervisor that I was so upset I could not continue. It was sickening to have to count body parts to make sure the fetal skeleton was complete, I help bring babies INTO THE WORLD, NOT take them out!

Kelly, just wait.  There's a movement out there to eliminate the conscience clause and require physicians and nurses in training to participate/perform abortions.   They also want to remove federal funding from hospitals that do not perform abortions.  Catholic hospitals have said that they'd close their doors rather than comply.  "Choice" only goes one way.   If the Dear Leader thinks we have a health care crisis now....

336

There's a columnist at the KC Star that's laying this murder at the feet of Operation Rescue already. I'd post a link, but I'll be damned if I'm going through the bs required to do it here.

337

well shit. way to go you idiot. you killed this guy, now all people that have legitimate greivances with abortion will be camped in with you. killing people like that helps no one bu Keith olberman and Charles johnson. he will be talking about this for months.

 

shit.

338

I'm expecting a Heydrich-like state funeral for that infanticide martyr.

Sibelius will need another donor.

339 I wish people here would quit pretending that the current US abortion "law" represents something legitimate. It does not.


Well thats a clear double standard then, because there are also those on the other side who feel that the 2nd amendment and certain aspects of the 1st are illegitimate also.

340  If you are fighting the culture wars:

1.  You need to declare war.
2.  You need to get an army.
3.  You need to pick your targets better.

341 this is a shame and we can only hope no one does this to politicians, that would push this country into an area it may not recover from especially in these time

342

#278-Yes, Tiller was very free with his late term abortion services for women who suffered some depression, migraines, general unhappiness with life, etc. He also used a doctor that was a member of his practice for consults, (the state requires 2 doctors opinions on late term abortions), instead of using a completely unbiased doctor from outside of his office. Most people thought he would definately be found guilty on the charges, but surprise, surprise, Kathleen Sebilius's big buddy got off scott free. Well, I guess he actually didn't today. I have literally fumed over hearing this bastard's name mentioned I have been so disgusted, but today actually gasped out loud when I read this. I dunno why, except I guess it just struck me as so odd, him in church and someone coming in at 10 in the a.m. and shooting him like that. He will, along with his killer, indeed have to answer to God.

OTOH, I will be more than happy to kick Wendy's ass if she wants to meet up.

343 If both Dr. Tiller and his killer had worn their three wolf one moon t-shirts, none of this would have happened.

344 Even over at the Fox News website the left is using the "American Taliban" term.

Ace, you should see some of the comments over at the Fox website. Makes this one look tame.

345 Well thats a clear double standard then, because there are also those on the other side who feel ...

I don't give a rats ass about their "feelings", and neither do you. So spare me this silly line of argument.

346 No doubt who tomorrow's "Worst Person in the World" will be, eh?  Keefums is gonna need to wear a bib to control his spittle-flecked outrage.  Will it be 1) the actual killer?  2) Operation Rescue and/or all Pro-Life groups?  or 3) every Pro-Life American? Hmm....   I think he'll split the difference and go with #2

347 Juicer, I'm not particularly vulgar (especially for this site), and lord knows I'm not stupid.  You've proven nothing save your own inability to marshal together the elements of a cogent counterargument.  Snark and name-calling only gets you so far on the internets.  Then you have to produce.  At that point, wildly vulgar namecalling (or nitpicky niggling, or snark) may make you feel better as a means of tacit intellectual retreat, but really only marks you outwardly as the loser of the argument.

And you also haven't responded to my substantive point.

348 "Look, we have our own Taliban!"

Yeah, it's called the ACLU. They want to do to crosses in public spaces what the Taliban did to the Bamiyan Buddhas.

349 Posted by: Jeff B. at May 31, 2009 02:25 PM (5d0hS)

Also, I suspect you have no real understanding of what it means to be a Christian. 

For starters, i'm not a christian. I'm proud to be Jewish. That's the first assumption test you fail, but not the last.

For starters, it means condemning lawless murder without reservation.

So, i have to condemn murder i did not commit neither did i condone? I believe North Korea is missing a propaganda agent somewhere. Go fetch.

Harsh words, but the truth.  You don't have to weep for the death of this abortion doctor, but any attempt to justify it or play cute semantic games involving "yeah, BUT..." mark you, and mark you poorly.

I'm not justifying, i'm gloating. There's a difference.

For example, i don't justify your utter stupidify, but i do gloat over it.

350 I won't be mourning his loss. And, yes, I do have an alibi.

351 No doubt who tomorrow's "Worst Person in the World" will be, eh?  Keefums is gonna need to wear a bib to control his spittle-flecked outrage.


Actually it'll be Chris Matthews who'll need the bib. Keith will be on top of his desk jerking off all over the camera.

352

He's been caught and there is to be a televised press conference, at 4:00.

353 >> If you think otherwise, you seriously haven't even read the goddamned New Testament:

I could be wrong here, but I think you lecture loses a little of it's punch when in the middle of giving instruction on Christian behavior you refer to the "goddamned New Testament".

I've sen SarahW's posts here for quite some time. She's not a lefty.

354 Juicer, I'm not particularly vulgar (especially for this site), and lord knows I'm not stupid. 

Posted by: Jeff B. at May 31, 2009 02:52 PM (5d0hS)

This may be your one truthful phrase in this thread. You seem to hide your non-stupidity so well, only G-d is able to see it.

355

Jeff B. : You complained about language (amongst other things) and then called us assholes. If you can't see the humor in that then I must question your claim of intelligence.

356  
248, I agree.

357

Great. A hot topic and my connection keeps on cutting out. See you later.

358

One more murderer down here.

No change up there.

Thanks for your support.

359 @271: +1

This is not a line we should be crossing.  Either the law controls, or it does not.

Whether the doctor was killed because he performed abortions, because he was banging someone's wife, or because he owed Guido™ money, it's a bad thing for rule of law.

360 I have no sympathy or apathy for people that perform late stage abortion. I'm not saying it is ok to kill him but if you saw a viable human torn apart piece by piece it is understandable people would want that practice to end. Botched late term abortions where the performer screws up and does not kill the child so it is left to die in storerooms. If you don't want to stand up to any abuse heaped on you and fight back then you are condoning the practice.  Let the anti-life people fight to mantain their position. All you have to say is bullshite pull your head out of your arse to think every now and then. These are VIABLE humans and if the people that seek them can't decide sooner then let them give the kid up. I am not a nut nor am I totally against abortion just not late term unless the mother's life is at risk.

361 Ohhh.... thank God that Jeff B is here to be the self-righteous scold ... as always.

I think there was ONE comment about SaraW being a leftist.

Which, of course, was wrong. We all know she isn't.

Then again, Sara made some unsubstantiated claims about how late term abortions are mostly performed to save the life of the mother.

And she got called on it. Because, frankly, she's full of shit.

So ... why, JeffB, are you so fucking fixated on scolding the commenters rather than getting to the facts of the matter?

Isn't that the most important thing?

Or is the most important thing to saddle up on that high horse of yours?

362 Operation Rescue has issued a statement:

"We are shocked at this morning's disturbing news that Mr. Tiller was gunned down. Operation Rescue has worked for years through peaceful, legal means, and through the proper channels to see him brought to justice. We denounce vigilantism and the cowardly act that took place this morning. We pray for Mr. Tiller's family that they will find comfort and healing that can only be found in Jesus Christ."

363

I am not a nut nor am I totally against abortion just not late term unless the mother's life is at risk.

I think that in the late stage the first thing we should do is to try to save them both.  If the child cannot be saved so be it, but give it an honest try.

364

Wendy @164:

 

You are right it is your body, and you may do with it as you please.  Now that these are the choices that you yourself have made, I guess there is no such thing as a dead beat dad.

Responisibility is a bitch aint it?

 

 

 

365 The people from Tiller's church are calling him a good man. Are Lutherans non-judgemental to this extreme?

366 I hope Tiller had his organ donor card in order

367

JeffB,

As a real Christian, I take umbrage at your assertion that I am unable to defend myself or others if they are in danger. That is a position held by the smallest of minorities in Christendom, and has always been so. Indeed, Christ Himself said to "sell your garment and buy a sword" to his disciples. He also said he was not bringing peace but a sword. Numerous common legal traditions in Christendom and western civilizations inspired by such have enshrined the concept of self defense and the defense of others. Your specific interpretation is not accepted by the majority of Christian denominations throughout history nor presently. So stop trying to speak FOR me when you yourself do not present a balanced and sourced theological point without also presenting historical context. I am not a pacifist, nor am I a gnostic, nor any of the other multitudes of tiny, self-congratulatory separate micro-denominations that give such strange contra-historic "guidelines" to those so adamantly on the attack in cases like this.

 

368

Maybe he tithed very well, ricky.

But that money came at a price.

369 STILL not on Drudge.  Hmmm......

370

Would the last one of my followers to leave the Lutheran Church please bring the cross?

371 He's got to be waiting for the press release at 4:00, Ombudsman.

372

Maybe he tithed very well, ricky.  But that money came at a price.

30 pieces of silver, indeed.

373 "In particular I love the "SarahW is a leftist!" bleats.  God you people can be such unbelievable assholes sometimes."

Oh give the sanctimony a rest.  Exactly one person said this, and you all went apeshit.

Qwinn

374 >>STILL not on Drudge. Hmmm....

Yea, it is.

375

I figured I'd comment before reading through all comments or I'd lose my nerve.

Murder is a sin. The killing of an innocent person is called 'murder' and is a crime. The determination of what constitutes a 'crime' is decided by the courts, and not by God.

The determination of what constitutes a sin, however, is entirely in God's hands.

I do not agree with the killing of the doctor. I do not agree with a person doing so, likely in the name of God, and then doing it where the doctor went to, perhaps, beg forgiveness for his sins.

Will I miss him? No. I didn't know him.

Will the suffering of unborn, near-term children be lessened for his death? Will the eventual crisis of conscience and consequent pain suffered by the women involved in his butchery be lessened? To both I would say, emphatically, 'YES'.

Had the doctor died in the act of committing a late-term abortion his request for forgiveness may not have been uttered. One can only hope that while in church today the doc was asking God to forgive him, and he left this earth cleansed of his sins. 

As a Christian, I do not want anyone to suffer on earth...nor in hell.

376 369 STILL not on Drudge.  Hmmm......

Posted by: Ombudsman at May 31, 2009 03:10 PM (fWF4Q)

Drudge has it.  A small headline, right under Susan Boyle (which he obviously considers the more newsworthy story, wtf?)

377 Bill Ayers and Bernadine Dohrn were unavailable for comment.

378
365 The people from Tiller's church are calling him a good man. Are Lutherans non-judgemental to this extreme?

Lutherans are crap. It ain't Martin's dogma anymore.

379 Was John Brown a hero or a terrorist?

380

     Perhaps the killer will be caught, and his judge will be a wise latina goddess of empathy.  After the killer explains that it was an act of passion after his girl friend aborted their late-term child that he wanted.  The goddess can tell him to go, and not practice post-partum abortions any more.  Or get a medical license.  I dunno, but I think it would be a common reaction that people will agree publicly and privately that the murder was terrible, and they will keep private the thought that poetic justice was served.

Would it help the killer if he said he did it out of his muslim beliefs?  Then it would become an issue of multi-culti tolerance.  I keed. Maybe Obama can use this to help normalize relations with Arab Muslims.

381 OT but Jeff B is still a passive agressive douche no matter the subject and whether I agree with him or not.

382 Posted by: publicserf at May 31, 2009 03:17 PM (V1Qq0)

They have a suspect in custody.  News conference scheduled for 4 pm Wichita time.

383 Don't be surprised when the babykillers use this to ram FOCA through.

Come to think of it, there's a small chance the babykillers did it themselves---to make Tiller a martyr and get FOCA through and change the pro-life/pro-choice percentages just surveyed.

384 Operation Rescue has issued a statement:

"We are shocked at this morning's disturbing news that Mr. Tiller was gunned down. Operation Rescue has worked for years through peaceful, legal means, and through the proper channels to see him brought to justice. We denounce vigilantism and the cowardly act that took place this morning. We pray for Mr. Tiller's family that they will find comfort and healing that can only be found in Jesus Christ."



Unfortunatley Che' Johnson over at Little Hurt Feelings in true cherry picking fashion decided to post only this about it:

Randall Terry, founder of Operation Rescue states, “George Tiller was a mass-murderer. We grieve for him that he did not have time to properly prepare his soul to face God. I am more concerned that the Obama Administration will use Tiller’s killing to intimidate pro-lifers into surrendering our most effective rhetoric and actions. Abortion is still murder. And we still must call abortion by its proper name; murder.

“Those men and women who slaughter the unborn are murderers according to the Law of God. We must continue to expose them in our communities and peacefully protest them at their offices and homes, and yes, even their churches.”

385

Perhaps some reflection is in order.  There was another recent shooting that has not, and likely will not generate nearly as much controversy.

An off duty cop chasing a criminal got shot and killed in NYC.

Some people are attempting to politicize this, turn it into a racial thing by saying the cops shot a black man seen running with a gun.

I’m bothered by that killing too. Not because the dead man was shot while being black. But because the NYPD thinks it is ok to open fire on anyone seen running with a gun - without ever attempting to determine just who the criminal is.

The abortionist’s death is a bad thing too. But I am less bothered by those events than the ones in NYC.

386 "Are Lutherans non-judgemental to this extreme?"

Just wondering -- what with all the Lutheran bashing now, are we to condemn all Baptists because Fred Phelps runs a Baptist church?  How about all the Catholics? Are we condemning all of them because some priests were wrong?  Just wondering if that's the rules now? 

387 Hey Wendy; quit acting like a fucking cock hungry slut, and use protection, and maybe you wouldnt need the "choice" of abortion. Take responsibility BEFORE  you let your next john fill your septic womb with man spray, and you can lose the abortionists phone number. You're welcome. Whore.

388 This never helps.

It only galvanizes the opposition, and gives them ammunition.

389 "The killing of an innocent person is called 'murder' and is a crime."

Here I come to split hairs as usual.  What you describe is not murder unless it's intentional or with malicious disregard.  Otherwise your definition would capture lesser degrees of homicide and, indeed, ordinary tortious negligence.  A car accident, while a tragedy, is rarely a crime.

390 Whoever the loser murderer who did this to Tiller the Baby Killer; you are no better than Tiller! Enjoy prison and hell, moron!

391 I wasn't bashing anyone Annie, I was asking a serious question.

392 I admit, I am a bit dumbfounded at people who are directly drawing moral equivalency between killing thousands of infants for money, and between killing the abortionist who killed thousands of infants for money.

Do innocence and guilt mean nothing anymore?

Again, I hope the killer gets prosecuted according to the law.  But equivalent moral outrage between what this doctor has done, and what the man who killed him has done (assuming he was acting in defense of the unborn, which we don't know yet), are on two utterly different levels.

Qwinn

393

#389...

I couldn't agree more. I was simply referring to this particular situation.

394 What is this but an extra late term abortion.  The swine got what he deserved.  Someone who made a living murdering babies reaped what he sowed.  Hope he enjoys the heat.  What ring of Hell is reserved for abortionists?

395

Will Tiller's office close, or will someone take it over, I wonder.

The demonstration of support in KS should be interesting, as well.

 

396 I have a hard time believing that a person who has issues with a late term abortionist would choose a church as the location to 'off' the abortionist. Almost as hard to believe as a late term abortion provider going to church. My Gawd, what triple-grade freakin' hypocrisy.

But the MSM will be all over this story, like stink on sh!t, if it's someone from the right. A year from now there will be Lifetime after-school specials glorifying the abortionist, and painting anyone with any conscience or belief in morality as a zealot capable of murder at the drop of a clothes hanger.

397 I was banned from LGF for daring to point out that Johnson's one-dimensional model of politics was both wrong and obsessive. Doubtless, Johnson will continue with his obsessions and will do his best to tar conservatives as supporters of murder. Thats how his cognitive model of the world works -- every individual fits somewhere on the "left-center-right" spectrum and all individual acts flow from their position.

Obviously this is hogwash and easy to demolish with examples. And when I did so, I was immediately blocked from further postings. I too discovered the hard way that Charles Johnson cannot easily argue points due to his limited knowledge, but can easily ban posters that present a challenge to his obsessions.

I'm asking conservatives NOT to over-react to any false theories linking conservative thought to this murder. We don't need to be defensive. All we need do is ask the blogger for some logical proof that conservatism or conservative thought caused the killing. That will either result in an immediate ban or total silence from the blogger.

398 Something I've wondered before is what is the draw for doctors who become abortionists? Why are they compelled to get into a field like that? Sure, I can see how leftist doctors are indoctrinated into the whole "women's rights" thing, but at what point do they say, "Hey, I wanna kill me some babies!"

As logprof brought up the case of Dr. Bernard Nathanson, an abortionist who became pro-life after the development of ultrasound technology.

So seriously, what kind of person is a late-term abortionist, seeing these fully developed babies, killing them, and happily still going to work everyday to kill more babies? What makes people like that tick? There's some kind of major league disconnect in that moral system.

399 Please be a muslim.

400

#398...

I, too, have wondered. I mean, seriously, how does one choose this field and then...become a trailblazer for pushing the envelope?

I also wonder, how does one get up in the morning, put on one shoe, then the other, eat his grapefruit half and a cup of coffee, kiss the wife goodbye, and then head off cheerfully to his day at the 'office'.

Similarly,  I put in a 12 hour day at work because when 8 hours rolls around I know that there is more I could be doing. Likewise, how do they determine when the end of the day arrives? When have you performed your duties to a point that constitues a level of fulfillment?

401

Drunken Conservative, that's a great question. Why does any medical student decide to become exclusively an abortionist and then again, specialize in late term abortions.

It has to take a terrible toll on the spirit.

 

402 The funny thing about leftists like Wendy is, they wan't the government to control every ones lives by stepping in to tell us what we can eat, drink smoke,drive etc., save the environment and take preemptive measures on everyones health and extending every ones lives, but they can't figure out how to put a simple condom on, or your use birth control, to prevent taking a life

Maybe we need a representative from the government posted 24 hrs. a day in Wendy's bedroom to make sure she's a responsible adult.

403 399 Pinandpuller
Please be a muslim.

If he is, the record will be sealed, a plea bargain will be made, and we'll never hear another word about it.

404 It has to take a terrible toll on the spirit.

Some people are into death. I doubt that Mengele was tossing and turning at night over his actions.

405

The suspect has been arrested. He/she was driving a blue Ford Taurus.

No way this is going to end well for conservatives.

 

 

_{(I keed)}

406

#404...

Mengele seemed to have taken joy in his methods of...ahem...scientific research.

407 Just a thought, I wonder how many people who think that abortion is ok, have ever SEEN what an aborted fetus looks like?  I also have always wondered if those same people could participate in their own abortions, take a look at the "product of conception"? AKA the fetal parts that are mangled, but still recognizable?  I wonder if THEN they would still stand behind their ideas? So many women and men just don't have a clue, they buy into this crap that it is only a bunch of cells. I have always believed that anyone who is going to have an abortion should take a look first, ultra sound, 4D to be exact. THEN make your decision based on true knowledge. I have to admit that before nursing school I was one of those who was pro-choice. No longer, I have seen too much.

408 The suspect has been arrested. He/she was driving a blue Ford Taurus.



Well we know it wasn't a muslim then. Muslim assassins drive Fiat's.

409 Actually, I think that, just as the Columbine massacre caused the anti-gunners to overreact, sealing their fate, this may very well cause the pro-death side, and their puppet TOTUS, to try to use fascist tactics against a popular pro-life movement, sealing their fate.  Especially with gas prices skyrocketing again.

410

Kelly, there is an extremely high rate of turn over in staff at abortion clinics.

Having to piece together fetal remains, to be sure that none are left in utero, is one of the top reasons many quit. Pay's not that great, either.

411 Tiller is answering to a much higher and tougher authority right now and so is his murderer.  May God have mercy on his soul because he will never get it from me.

412

#408...

It might be a good thing that just 400 comments in, the rancor has died down enough to joke about the Taurus.

I was blowing a bubble when I read the Fiat comment. It's really amazing how far a hunk of gum can fly.

413
Someone just shot a Nazi guard manning the gas chamber at Aushwitz.  I should feel bad about this ?

414

407 Just a thought, I wonder how many people who think that abortion is ok, have ever SEEN what an aborted fetus looks like? 

--Silent Scream (made by Dr. Nathanson) is on the Internet.  I have never seen it, don't fell like I need to, but it's something.

410

Kelly, there is an extremely high rate of turn over in staff at abortion clinics.

--I prefer abortuaries, or abortion mills. Clinics are places where genuine healing takes place.

415 I'll agree with you on nonmenclature, logprof.

416

Well, shit. There goes my spelling.

I was upset and had a few drinks.

This AoSHQ, after all.

417 It might be a good thing that just 400 comments in, the rancor has died down enough to joke about the Taurus.


This would be a great talking point for the govt goons running GM and Chrysler now.
Only lunatic vigilantes drive Fords. 

418 415 I'll agree with you on nonmenclature, logprof.

Posted by: Who Knows at May 31, 2009 03:58 PM (0aQsc)

--I doesn't matter sometimes; I occasionally slip to using "clinics," although sometimes I do use that term as the others reveal my leanings on the issues (which are of course not wisely disseminated in certain company/occupations) --and some might then think I'm a wannabe abortuary bomber!

419 I hope whoever murdered that doctor gets caught...

...still, I'm glad that doctor isn't murdering children any more.

420

#168

 

Wendy:

 

I realize as a public school graduate thinking may be a terrible burden on you and that's why you lead the life you do.  Now far be it for me to interfere with how you use your body but hanging around on the docks in short skirts with everything hanging out is a bit much.

 

Can't you earn your living some other way.  And its too bad you parents, (assuming you knew your pappy) had the time or inclination to spend time on your education.  So much easier to chain you in front of the boob tube or sentence you to day care.

 

It shows.

421

413

 

I'm with you.

422 When will you dumb fucks ever learn that it's my body and I'll decide what I do with it. I won't be dictated to by some home-schooled illiterate from the Southern States.
Extending that logic a bit, I would say you made that decision when you spread your legs.

423

Wendy, you ignorant slut.

I am a hospice nurse, what do you think haunts a woman who has had and abortion in the time before they die. The fact that they got their MS at some liberal college in "herstory" is meaningless. The fact that they took the life of their child is at the forfront of their psych. You have not witnessed pain, until you have seen someone in this kind of pain.

If anyone ever shows the remains of an abortion they are called 'insensitive,' but they clamor for the Abu Graib Prison photos. For everyone of these published they should publish the remains of a late term abortion, front and center, for all to see.

The doctors that perform them, really do not give a shit about the long term effects to a person.

 

 

424 I read over at the KS City Star site that it was a white male. Figures, doesn't it? Exactly what I expected. I am guessing, (though I shouldn't), this is someone who has either had their baby offed by Tiller or a fanatic. I cannot believe how pissy they are over at HA> People are over there tying themselves in knots for fear of saying something non-PC. It has gotten almost as bad as LGF. Someone said they weren't going to be able to squeeze out a tear, and all the trolls and lefties went ape-shit. Uh, this is too far, guys. No one has to feel sorry the man is dead. It is not a requirement to make the lefties think we are enlightened and non-cretinous. It wouldn't work anyway. They believe what they believe. And they don't sensor for our side, that's for damn sure.

425

Murderer killed by a murderer.  The "religion in question" tends to condemn the actions of both.  The only secular legal distinction between the two is that the former was excused by a mystical penumbra that only a few could see and describe to the rest of us.  The other gets the full weight of the law and pressed against him, along with whatever an amoral media can do to tip the balance, with the bonus of whatever collateral damage they can do to us as part of the process, whereas if it were two drug dealers, with a history of 'removing' competitors, it would not even be a discussion in this forum.

  I suggest remembering the following when your finger-wagging liberal acquaintances step in to your face and using this "tragedy" to explain why we're wrong, and we simply cannot be trusted to exercise our Constitutional right to own a firearm.

1.  Serious Christians understand that we are expected to not quietly condone evil in our midst, but at the same time, that we are submit to the law.  That leaves peaceful protest of babykilling and advocacy for changes in the law.  If you can believe in a God that holds you accountable for your actions, then you can also believe that he tends to deal with evil in his own time and manner.

2.  The gun-grabbers need to be reminded yet again that when seconds count, the police are only minutes away.  If the shooter was truly a "terrorist", it seems highly unlikely that he would have stopped with Tiller, and who knows how many others would have died waiting for a police response.  Taking guns away from law abiding citizens doesn't make us safer, it just lets the bad guys know that they're less likely to suffer a negative consequence for being an asshat.

3.  Perspective is important.  When they get really ramped up and start howling about Tiller's family being robbed of his "guidance and companionship", you can acknowledge that it was indeed tragic, just like the hundreds of lives that never came into being, and never had a say in the matter because of his deliberate actions.  Remind them that they would be hypocrites of the highest order to pretend that his life was somehow more valuable than any of theirs, because as a result of his deliberate actions, we'll never know the next great physicist, poet, educator, doctor, or theologian who never got the opportunity to benefit the human race.

What we say and how we act in the coming days will no doubt be very important, and you be certain that the left will be emboldened into every attempt to provoke more violence.  Think carefully, and speak clearly.

426 Has the Kansas Supreme Court eliminated the death penalty?

427

Bleeding Kansas, again.

 

428

http://tinyurl.com/lfjf95

They caught him.  Don't know if this had been posted.

429 Kelly at May 31, 2009 02:43

I don't think adoption is going to cure maternal hydrops syndrome.

430 Am I the only one who questions the timing of this ? More news made to keep the lefty chicago thuggery news dribble banging the drums on how bad the prolifers/the right are  - this will bury every other thing that is way more important - maybe I really am paranoid but I do not put this past those hate filled lefty thugs doing something and pinning it on on a right winger - I am also surprised that   1. the police did not  shoot the suspect dead or  2. self inflicted gunshot suicide of the suspect just like in the clinton years. Cousin Odinga in Iran - NYC big $$$date  - North Korea ....Iran .....cutting help to Israel....ACORN... Black Panthers.....Chrysler.... Bond holders credibility - racist judge..etc.real funny on the timing ????? It is just too weird that all of a sudden tiller the killer is shot to death.in a chruch - after how many years he is been on the radar?

431 Blazer, you wrote: Well thats a clear double standard then, because there are also those on the other side who feel that the 2nd amendment and certain aspects of the 1st are illegitimate also.

The difference is that the first and second amendments are laws legitimately written, whether or not anyone agrees with them. Roe vs Wade was a decision by judges to over rule laws that were legitimately written. That is what makes it illegitimate, not whether or not one thinks it is morally illegitimate.

432 I'm an atheist and I'm delighted he was killed. He deserved to die. I've never understood why objecting to mass infanticide means you must be a Christian fundie. Mass murder's bad right? Did anyone shed any tears at the death of Pol Pot?

It's  not a false analogy. He was a mass murderer, he deserved to die, I'm glad he was killed.

433

SarahW, is maternal hydrops the reason for your comments?

 

 

434

Dittoes Re: post #38.

It is unfortunate that some nutcase decided to exact judgement on Tiller before God's schedule.

Second, the church Tiller attended is scripturally lost in accepting Tiller as a member.  What part of "Thou shall not kill" do they choose not to understand?

Third, expect the media to cast all pro-lifers and conservatives are killers.

I also ditto post #425's perspective. Christians are subject to the lawful government and must obey the law or suffer the consequences of breaking the law.  I expect the perpetrator will be caught, tried, convicted and punished.

 

 

 

435 Oh and I always knew those Lutherans were no good.

(hi michael from Innocent Bystanders)

Dang, I knew that was gonna happen.

Look, let me make this clear -- if any late-term abortionist tries to get a gig as an usher at my church, I'll shoot the guy myself somewhere off church property before he becomes an embarrassment.

Ushers -- you are on notice!

436 Abortion doctor killers 1, abortion doctors 40,000,000 and counting.

437 I can think of nothing better than this to help the left, just when we were starting to put Obama on the run too.  This will help the pro-choice folks, not hurt them.

There is nothing so good than too much of it cannot be a bad thing.  It is axiomatic that extremists act in ways that boomerang.

438 The left is going to scream if a Kansas jury refuses to convict, mistrials, or levies a 30d sentence for the murder and 1-5y for the aggravated assaults (what ever the max is).

If I owned a hotel and bar within 5mi of that courthouse, my prices would have doubled already.

439 expect the media to cast all pro-lifers and conservatives are killers.

That will be a change, how?

440 I'll shoot the guy myself

Wait, I take that back.  Maybe I'll just waterboard that usher by, um, drowning him.  That's the ticket.

441 Also, expect weeks of cater-wauling on MSNBC et al, which of course gives the rookie President a welcome break from having to answer questions about Sotomayor and North Korea and the fact that the US dollar will soon be suitable as toilet paper.

442 The only thing I'm happy about is that I'm not Tiller as he now tries to explain himself to his maker. May God Have Mercy.

443 I'm not crying for this evil mans termination.
His job was to murder innocent life. Although I wouldn't have killed him, I sure as hell would NEVER allow him in my church!

444 Am I the only one who is shocked by the fact that this evil prick attended church?  Good luck to him explaining to God this morning what he did for a living right before he was sent down the elevator to hell.

445 Maybe I'll just waterboard that usher . . .

OK, I take that back too.  Waterboarding would be too good for him.  Got a better idea.  I'll duct tape him to a chair and make him watch maybe 20-30 YouTube videos of Olbermann holding forth.  That way, there would be no marks on the body.

446 "I'm kind of afraid to post this."

I understand your predicament.

My mom told me to say nothing if I had nothing good to say.  So I'm invoking "Mom's Rule" here.

I will ask a question here though ...

People who kill abortionists are trying to stop what they believe is a human holocaust.  They see themselves as the "Good Germans" - who stood up against the Nazis to help the Jews while the rest of Germans played along, playing stupid.

But I wonder - environmental terrorists see themselves in that role also.

So I'm wondering - how many injuries and deaths have whacko environmentalists caused trying to stop whaling - or logging in the Northwest - or the seal fur trade ... etc?

Yet these guys are often seen as heros by the left - when they're only saving trees and the like.  But a guy who shoots an abortionist - he's a Nazi or something.

I won't defend the murderer - just point out that abortion is an extreme activity practiced by our "civilization" - no one should be surprised that extreme activity attracts equally extreme opposition.

447 People on both sides of this issue will agree murdering this guy was wrong. However, I don't think there will be an outpouring of sympathy for this doctor though.  Polls show the MAJORITY of people are against late term abortions, even those calling themselves pro-choice.  Some in the pro-abortion crowd may possibly try to use this incident to their benefit, but doing so will also serve to highlight what this guy was actually doing and how extreme he was.  That could backfire.

448 Honda, You just equated the life of a tree, a whale, and seal with baby and a Jew.  They are not equal. 

Whoever shot Tiller is not Wallenberg and EarthFirst is not the Dutch Resistance.

449

I won't be dictated to by some home-schooled illiterate from the Southern States.

Except those "home-schooled" folks are more likely to be literate when compared to your government educated zombies who voted for a guy who tried to get into the oval office through a window.

450 Rob Crawford over on PW nailed this one:

Regardless of whether this murder was politically motivated or for other reasons, I hope the murderer gets the death penalty.

But I’ll believe the left gives a rat’s ass about politically-motivated violence when they stop treating Mumia as anything but the murdering thug he is.

Oh, and when they treat the Obama administration letting those racist thugs from Philadelphia off the hook for violating the Voting Rights Act with any seriousness.

Oh, and when they admit that animal rights and “eco” terrorists should be tracked down and thrown in prison.

Oh, and when they stop coming to the defense of Islamist terrorists.

Oh, and when they make ’60s-era terrorists and their hangers-on persona non grata.

'Nuff said.

451 I just killed the nazi guard that opened the gas valve at the concentration camp. Oh he was going to open that valve tomorrow also. What is different both doctor and guard were doing what the state said was legal.

452 This is the same mindset of the Westborough Baptist Church who preach that God hates gays and soldiers and people who.  They're not reading their Bible or something. 

453

Surprise, surprise.

CNN just introduced the Tiller story with "groups on both sides of the abortion debate denounce the murder of...".

In fact, they said it twice, and read a quote from a pro-life group to that effect.

CNN must be stopped. They have gotten off message.

Anyone watch MSNBC yet?

454

Abortion also "cures" having an unwanted girl, SarahW. And abortion is now "curing" club feet and cleft palettes in the UK. [BTW, Steyn has also written on this too in the past. I think Dr. Theodore Dalrymple, major conservative critic of the UK's NHS, has as well.]

455 God bless you, Kelly; thanks for all your comments today.

456

In related news:

Billy Bob Thorton's Daughter Might Have Killed a Kid:

http://tinyurl.com/mwm3u7

 

457 http://www.kbmt12.com/

mass shooting in TX?

God grant us peace.

458 @ 453

cnn has lost so much of an audience that fox has gained those leaving numbers of people to the point that even msnbc has better ratings then cnn and guess what...msnbc is still tanking...bad.

459 being the non-religous type, i am supposed to support abortion, right? WRONG! however, i don't usually support the death penalty either, but in the case of this wack job shooting an abortion doc i'd say i'd make an exception. we have a political system, and nuts like this need to get it through their heads. if people are concerned about an issue then hello!, use the political system to further your cause. if that doesn't work, then get busy changing public opinion.

of course the pro abortion advocates, NOW,  and the media will jump all over this story and hold it up as an example of right wing extremism when all it is is an exception. the act of this one person is not representative of the pro life movement. sorry to rant, but this story makes me mad.

460 @447

good points

461 Posted by: pby at May 31, 2009 04:58 PM (vaNxt)

So, the US government and the government of Nazi Germany are the same?

Really or would you like to try that again?

462 Look.  Bother murder and abortion are wrong.  Taking human life in this manor, even to save the lives of others is just plain wrong.  I'm pro-life, but is killing abortion doctors or supporters any better than the killing of unborn children?  Is this really who we want to be as a people or as a nation?

463

Ford Taurus=NASCAR fan.

Found On Road Dead-its practically like the DaVinci Code.

464

32 Can anybody say "Reichstag Fire."

Wonder how many joos would be alive today if the assassination plot against Hitler hadn't failed? 

Just saying, lot's of babies might now see sunlight. Not that killing the asshole was right, any more than him killing the thousands of kids he killed..  God works in funny ways.

May he rot in hell.

Kemp

465 We finally got a majority of Americans thinking abortion is wrong and now this.

466 The fact that this happened doesn't bother me much. Tiller was a murderer. I don't condone it, obviously, but I just can't pretend to be "outraged" over the death of a guy who would hack up an infant for $10. Life in prison for the loon that did it.

467 if people are concerned about an issue then hello!, use the political system to further your cause. if that doesn't work, then get busy changing public opinion.

Roe v. Wade, by removing abortion from the political arena, makes this impossible.

Taking human life in this manor, even to save the lives of others is just plain wrong.

I've got a problem with that.  I think the Nazi analogy is valid.  Were the "good Germans" that fought the Nazis in this manner just plain wrong?

 I'm pro-life, but is killing abortion doctors or supporters any better than the killing of unborn children?

IMHO (and accepting the strikeout), yes, absolutely, obviously.  I'm appalled that anyone would argue differently.  The difference is guilt versus innocence.  That used to matter.  And I scratched out supporters because that's a silly and unwarranted extension of what happened here.

Qwinn

468

Wait a fucking second. They're making a prequel to Alien.

The world is sucking balls today.

469 Really, if someone wanted to merely stop Tiller they could have hacked his hands off.

470 Interesting to see that the shooter has already been tagged as a murderer here.  There has been a homicide, nothing more.  It may be a murder - and it likely was, but that isn't a given.  A crime of passion, manslaughter, is also possible.  And a jury could always find that no crime was committed at all.

471

#468...

God Bless you for trying.

I think it might still be a little early to thread-jack at this time.

472 Again, the number of "pro-lifers" who seek to murder abortionists wouldn't fill a bus, in a nation of hundreds of millions, as evidenced by their statistically inconsequential results.

I refuse to flog myself over these crazies just because the opportunistic Left is going to insist that all pro-lifers are responsible, if not identical.

Perspective, perspective, perspective.

473 <i>. . . they could have hacked his hands off.</i>

That would really make a mess in the narthex.

474

Reminds me of how I felt when I heard Jeffrey Dahmer had just been killed in prison.

475
So, the US government and the government of Nazi Germany are the same?

Really or would you like to try that again?

Posted by: DrewM. at May 31, 2009 05:15 PM (PLGGU)

Newsflash: it's not the US goverment who made hacking fetuses legal. 

476 Let the law be decided state by state.

477 ^{"We finally got a majority of Americans thinking abortion is wrong and now this."}

I'm not seeing why someone who thinks abortion is wrong would stop thinking so because an abortionist was murdered.  This thing goes pretty deep.

Two wrongs doesn't make one of them right again.

478 Regarding Kansas and the death penalty: Kansas does still have the death penalty.  A case was decided back a few years ago that said that juries have to sentence someone to death if the brutality of the crime outweighs the reason for the defendant doing it, or something along those lines.  I think that it's quite likely given that ruling, Tiller's murderer will not be sentenced to death. 

Tiller was well known in Wichita as a doctor who would provide an abortion for anyone with the cash, without much in the way of a reason.  O'Reilly claimed a few years ago that he had evidence that Tiller was doing the majority of his late-term abortions to cure temporary depression.  He played fast and loose with the law on getting a second opinion for late-term abortions too.

SarahW, I'm sure you have some sort of circumstance in your life that has led you to believe that late-term abortion is sometimes necessary, or maybe you have an overabundance of naivete and compassion.  Those sort of circumstances, where it is truly a choice between the life of the mother and the life of the child, are not the circumstances under which George Tiller typically performed abortions.

479 Say, can someone point me to some blog postings about this over at that hate site Hot Air?  I understand one of the blog posters presents himself as a Deity.  The folks aren't going to care for that, no sir.

480

Qwinn

Tiller's murderer will likely get his day in court to prove his guilt or innocence.

 The only day in court 40,000,000+ aborted kids got was in 1973 and they were all condemed to death with no guilt whatsoever.

481

Surprise, Obama "shocked and outraged" over killing.

Seven people were killed in Chicago in the last 24 hours.  On average, ~46 people are murdered in the USA per day.  Tiller was one of many, but of course he's the one who is a martyr for the left.

Grim

482 the nazi state said that that the killing of innocent people in concentration camps was legal and the usa says the killing of innocent children is legal. the result is the same innocent people are killed so the killing of the guard is just as bad as killing of the doctor or not and why not from logic.

483 Posted by: Juicer at May 31, 2009 05:30 PM (geKv3)

So the judiciary of the United States (you know the one laid out in the US Constitution, it's Article III if you have difficulty finding it) is not part of the US government?

Also, you do know that a not unsubstantial number of states allowed abortion for varying reasons prior to Roe. Are those states equivalent to Nazi Germany?

All in all, I don't find your ideas very interesting and do not wish to subscribe to your newsletter.

(FTR- I think Roe and PP v. Casey are among the worst decisions in history of the country. I just don't think they are some how magically removed from the body of laws that the  government of the United States enforces. Hopefully someday....)

484

Michael

Talk about blood on his hands.

485 Posted by: pby at May 31, 2009 05:38 PM (vaNxt)

Ok.

I appreciate your answer. I obviously disagree but at least I see where you are coming from and can judge your comments accordingly.

486

Fa Cube Itches

I guess we can only call Tiller a killer-not a murderer.

487 475 the supreme court is part of the us government and we are hacking babies 3 inches from the end on the birth canal

488 So the judiciary of the United States (you know the one laid out in the US Constitution, it's Article III if you have difficulty finding it) is not part of the US government?

That judiciary is not entitled to make laws.

Tillers death was lawless violence. But Tillers life was also lawless violence. The problem here is lawlessness, and it stems from the lawless government itself.

489 So other than that, how did Tiller like the service?

490 Just what Holder and the administration need to start a push for more gun control.

I am glad that no one else got hurt.

His punishment, listening to all the children he aborted cry for all eternity.

491 Maybe the murderer can join a faculty at a prestigious University in the future? Similar to white, male domestic terrorists from the 60's who killed cops have...

492 That judiciary is not entitled to make laws.
Posted by: flenser at May 31, 2009 05:45 PM (fOufl)

Thanks for stating the incredibly obvious.

That still doesn't some how magically remove the judicial branch from the federal government.

My only interest in this discussion was to challenge someone who made a statement equating the morality of the US government with Nazi Germany.

I think one can oppose the current abortion regime in this country without resorting to that level of idiocy.

493 491 Maybe the murderer can join a faculty at a prestigious University in the future? Similar to white, male domestic terrorists from the 60's who killed cops have.

Then maybe he can have a house party to introduce the next POTUS too. 

We could go on forever with that line, but why waste the time.

494 Gee, it was a white male.  As opposed to the black male who killed four cops in Oakland.  Well, it looks like white males have the upper hand morally.  The only thing better would have been a bunch of lawyers or ATFE agents. 

495 "American Taliban"....?
People are seriously saying that?
Number of people killed by the Taliban: In excess of 16,500
Number of people killed by anti-abortionists:  8
Why, those are perfectly equivalent!

496 I like that. Tiller's killer should get exactly the same treatment as Bill Ayers.

The difference is, no conservative would argue that Tiller's killer should be let free to walk the earth, given a high-paying job teaching children his ideology, and put in the position to advise the President of the United States.

But Amanda Marcotte, Andrew Sullivan, and the others argue that for Bill Ayers.

497 492 in this particular area i think that in the results of the actions of the us govt and the nazis are the same. innocent people being killed by legal state authority.i would love to see a difference

498

455 God bless you, Kelly; thanks for all your comments today.

Thanks, I appreciate your comments too as well as others who read my posting.  Being an OB nurse, you see so much and your ideas change as technology goes forward. As I said, I once was a pro-choice  and then I went to nursing school. After being forced to assist with an abortion, I was horrified by what I saw after spilling the contents after  a suction abortion on the tray. Little legs, toes, arms, lips and a crushed skull. AWFUL. I cried and sobbed and was violently ill. The fetus was in the first trimester, a little human with such potential, it's mother a professional woman, who wanted a career rather than motherhood. I asked myself, why couldn't she just have given just a small part of her life to bring her pregnancy to full term and give up the baby. I don't get it.  I am afraid now, that I might not have a choice in the future to decline to participate in an abortion if the consience law goes forward. If that happens, I will have to find a new career. I would rather starve and work at McDonalds.

499

Notable female Morons are absent from this.

What are you other women wanting to say?

I am a pro-lifer, so much that I was arrested, several times. I still don't agree with killing George Tiller.

 

 

 

 

500 Kelly, my hope is that if Obama and the Donks try to take away the conscience clauses and force people to participate, there will be so many people who refuse and walk away that the government will simply have to cave.

I don't know if that's realistic, and it's infuriating that someone like you would have to turn away from the professions you are trained for and skilled in, but what else is there to do if they try to do that?

501 Re: Tiller attending church - I've no problem with that at all and don't see it as hypocritical *provided* he sought absolution for his sins, yes even if he did it every Sunday and sinned every other day. B/c without the promise of redemption of sin, WTF is church for?

Also, no, I don't see his attendance of church as indicative of the sorry state of Christianity in the USA b/c if hypocrisy is the standard for that then Judas would've nixed it the entirety from the start.

Bleh. Nobody has their head screwed on straight when it comes to religion. Hint: It has nothing to do with appearances.

502

Grim

I wonder whoTiller used to dress as for Halloween? 

503
I think one can oppose the current abortion regime in this country without resorting to that level of idiocy.

The commenter made a valid logical point, even if he did it inartfully. It is not sufficient to say "the government says this is the law" as if that settles the matter. If push came to shove, I don't think you accept that logic yourself.

504

I was in the pro-life movement so early, that Tammy Bruce was showing up without make up.

 

505 So the judiciary of the United States (you know the one laid out in the US Constitution, it's Article III if you have difficulty finding it) is not part of the US government?

Also, you do know that a not unsubstantial number of states allowed abortion for varying reasons prior to Roe. Are those states equivalent to Nazi Germany?

All in all, I don't find your ideas very interesting and do not wish to subscribe to your newsletter.

(FTR- I think Roe and PP v. Casey are among the worst decisions in history of the country. I just don't think they are some how magically removed from the body of laws that the  government of the United States enforces. Hopefully someday....)

Posted by: DrewM. at May 31, 2009 05:38 PM (PLGGU) 

1. A government is the body within an organization that has authority to make and the power to enforce laws, regulations, or rules. (Wiki - yes, i know it's a lame source but i'm a lazy ass)

2. Dissembling is an attribute typical of lawyers. But it doesn't work here.

The argument went like this: Some guy Goodwined a Nazi anology between gas chambers sanctioned by the Nazi regime and late-fetus killing committed by individuals and made lawful by a non-lawmaking body.

In response, you went on to say that in order to make such equation, he has to say US gov is comparable as a whole to the Nazi gov.

In a correction to your demagoguery, I stated that the body which approved the killing of fetuses was not the US gov - which is not, because, you know, GOVERMENT the guy referred to is a limited goverment definition in general , literal and legal use - just as it was in this case.

Nazi goverment came up with the final solution via gas chambers, US goverment did not.

Nazi goverment implemented the final solution via gas chambers, US goverment did not.

So, logically, if you take it as an axiom that a person who commits mass abortion is just the same as a guy who operates the gas chambers - the fact that the Judicial branch made the goverment and the lawmakers unable to arrest an abortion performer doesn't make the goverment equal to the Nazi goverment.

So - bottom line - STFU or admit your argument is flawed. Yes?

506
Sarah, in maternal hydrops syndrome the baby can't be saved. That is a far different thing than choosing to kill it.

And yes, those late term abortions were performed for the mental health of the mother, she wouldn't be able to stand strangling the little thing to death after it was born.

507 Posted by: Juicer at May 31, 2009 06:24 PM (geKv3)

Or alternatively, you could stay the fuck out of other people's conversations.

That said, your statement that "Newsflash: it's not the US goverment (sic) who made hacking fetuses legal." is factually incorrect. Even the person I was talking to disagrees with you.

508 Someone said earlier "Vengeance is mine, saith the Lord"

I'm thinking more like "You reap what you sow"

Aren't we always being told violence begets violence?

509

I've no problem with that at all and don't see it as hypocritical *provided* he sought absolution for his sins, yes even if he did it every Sunday and sinned every other day.

Asking forgiveness for killing babies, while planning to do it again, isn't going to carry much weight with the Lord.  Children are precious to God and anyone who harms them has a special place reserved in the deepest pit.   That said, if the guy was ever really sorry and repented, God would forgive him.  I'm kind of confused over what to think, in this case. Murdering the guy was wrong, but then again if there was a guy gunning children down would you stop him anyway possible? 

Btw, I don't care who they catch - I think this was carried out by the whacked out lefties in order to get the public to move away from being pro-life.

510

the Donks try to take away the conscience clauses and force people to participate, there will be so many people who refuse and walk away

We'll have to start back alley birthing clinics then.

511

#499..

Momma's spoken as has Sarah. Attila Girl seems to post later in the day/night as of late. Other than Attila and Laura, who is missing? I doubt they're withholding as much as just not available for somment at this time on a Sunday afternoon.

512 Of course the US government made abortion legal.  I don't even get the argument that leads to that statement.

If one wants to make the distinction that in Nazi Germany, the government actually ran the concentration camps, whereas here our abattoirs are private entities, well... okay.  Yeah.  That is a material difference.  I'm not sure to what rhetorical end the distinction is being made though.

Qwinn

513 507 Posted by: Juicer at May 31, 2009 06:24 PM (geKv3)

Or alternatively, you could stay the fuck out of other people's conversations.

That said, your statement that "Newsflash: it's not the US goverment (sic) who made hacking fetuses legal." is factually incorrect. Even the person I was talking to disagrees with you.

Posted by: DrewM. at May 31, 2009 06:27 PM (PLGGU)

You sure are a sore loser, ain't you not?

If you could read English, which is your first and not even my second language, you would understand that both your first argument (equation of abortion clinic and gas chambers = equation of US and Nazi goverments) and your second argument (goverment referred to is the broader definition a-la goverment system vs. the executive branch of the goverment as it is referred to by most people most of the time) are completely, totally, and utterly wrong.

I'd invite you to suck your own cock, but alas - the fact you a midget does not compensate for the fact you are a pathetic no-man without a cock. Cause a man can admit his mistakes.

514 bottom line in two places nazi Germany  and the USA innocent people are killed with no access to the legal system by state sanctions.

515 Posted by: Juicer at May 31, 2009 06:38 PM (geKv3)

Since English isn't your first or second language I'll type this slowly...

I...didn't...equate...the US government...and...the Nazi Government.

"pby" did and he/she has stuck with it twice.

I'm disagreeing with him/her and your giving me shit for making a comparisson I am arguing against.

I'm not sure what number language English is for you but you're not as good as it as you think.

516 So now can we expect some right wing nut job shooting up churches and trying to kill cops every couple of months now?

517 and your second argument (goverment referred to is the broader definition a-la goverment system vs. the executive branch of the goverment as it is referred to by most people most of the time

Uh, no, Juicer.  The Supreme Court qualifies in the eyes of virtually everyone as part of the US government by even its most limited definition, it does not require a "broad definition" to consider it so, no one ever thinks of just the executive branch as the government, you are totally wrong on this.

Qwinn

518 In my mind this guy was the modern equivalent of Josef Mengele. I would have toasted the killers of the nazi and celebrated his death. It would be hypocritical of me to react differently now.

519 From the Tiller family's statement, "George dedicated his life to providing women with high-quality heath care..."

Oh, is that what it was? More fucking moral disconnect.

520 Qwinn, i respectfully disagree.

When people hear goverment, the first association which comes to mind is not the of Souter, Alito and Kennedy, but Obama, Geitner and Gates. Can you really claim otherwise?

521 in two places nazi Germany  and the USA innocent people are killed with no access to the legal system by state sanctions

Regardless of the validity of that statement, it is not a useful comparison to make. Comparing anyone or anything to Nazi Germany just causes people to blow you off.

522

I wonder if Tiller got to meet all the children he aborted before being sent to hell?

523 So now can we expect some right wing nut job shooting up churches and trying to kill cops every couple of months now?

Piggy!  Its like old home week for trolls.

524 497 in this particular area i think that in the results of the actions of the us govt and the nazis are the same. innocent people being killed by legal state authority.i would love to see a difference
pby

Here's the argument (I'm not saying I agree with it just why there is a difference)...

There is a great deal of uncertainty among many, if not most, people about when a child (especially one that has not reached viability) is subject to the protections afforded to 'a person'.

That doubt is not present in the victims of the Nazis.

Now, you and many others have no doubt about the rights of the unborn but that doesn't change the fact that a lot of other people of good will do.

525

And I am sure you are still living in your Mom's basement.

Good for you.

526 "That doubt is not present in the victims of the Nazis."

Quite a few Nazis, and even people alive today (such as certain sects of Islamists) deny the humanity of Jews.

I think the pretty obvious answer is:  if there is any real doubt about whether an entity is human, err on the side of caution.

Qwinn

527 510

the Donks try to take away the conscience clauses and force people to participate, there will be so many people who refuse and walk away

We'll have to start back alley birthing clinics then.

 

With today's technology and available birth control, it should not be necessary for abortion to take place at all. There is the "day after pill" to take care of those times when people find themselves in the situation they did not expect. Tell me if I am wrong? I don't think so. Still,  in this country abortions are being done at an alarming rate, why?  If you speak to a large group of women you will find them refusing to take responsibility for their behavior. You might not believe this but I hear the following comment more times than I can tell you. "Well, I can always opt for a termination if I get pregnant". What a shame to use a procedure like this for birth control. We are raising a nation of callous citizens I fear.

528 Every person has an abortion story, and that colors the statements they make.

529 Good for you.

Heh.  Still as witty as ever.

530 Posted by: Qwinn at May 31, 2009 06:58 PM (/y1J0)

Good luck persuading the persuadable by equating them with Nazis and Islamists. That'll do the trick!

Personally, I find going the science route works fairly well. Yes liberals always like to talk about science but they have to ignore it to be pro-abortion. It's kind of funny to see someone claim 'it's just a bunch of cells' be forced to think that through and try and square it with their faith in science.

Or you know, people like pby can continuing thinking people of good will who have have some doubt or lack his or her moral certitude are the moral equivalent of Nazis.

Yeah, that's the ticket!

531 >>there are alot of people in this country who think there are higher laws than those on the books.


Yes, like noted philosopher Fawn Hall. Fuck those idiots, all of them.

532 524 partial birth aborts are viable and i am sure there were some people gassed that were on their last leg (not viable). bottom line viable people are and were killed in both countries with no recourse to the legal system and by state sanction.i wish this was not so

533 Will the left continue to insist we ask "why do they hate us" now that some douchebag terrorist has murdered one of their own? Make no mistake - this guy is a terrorist. But will the Left demand we consider our "domestic policies" to perhaps explain why this nutter did what he did like they always demand we consider our "foreign policies" to explain why some other terrorist douchebag from the ME does what he does?

534 32 Can anybody say "Reichstag Fire."

Posted by: Aaron at May 31, 2009 12:41 PM (gftD1)

 

 DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING

535 there are alot of people in this country who think there are higher laws than those on the books.

Like at least five people on the Supreme Court.

536 Drew,

Your point about whether or not the comparison will persuade anyone is valid.  But that does not address the point of whether the comparison is apt.  If someone does genuinely believe that abortion is murder, well, the Nazis were only responsible for about 30 million dead (and that includes dead via legal warfare).  Abortionists are coming close to doubling that since Roe.

Even if abortion is considered not-as-bad-as-nazis, I think it is without question worse than slavery (and no, this doesn't mean I think slavery was okie dokey, I think it was horrific too, but it didn't result in 40-50 million dead). 

Frankly, from a moral perspective, I think it would serve at least as valid a basis for civil war as slavery did.  We're all just too comfortable these days to imagine going to war on the behalf of others.

Either that, or way way way too convinced of our own hallowed secular enlightenment.  Nothing we do can be as bad as what Nazis or southern slaveowners did, cause, well, -we- believe it.  And we're good people, damnit!  There's your evidence right there!

Qwinn

537 >>I don't think there will be an outpouring of sympathy for this doctor

------------------

What about his family? Wife, kids? I've got plenty of sympathy for them.

538

Talk about complicated grief.

539 The guy Scott Roeder that shot Tiller got some history. He's on the ADL's website listed as a militia member:

Kansas: Scott Roeder is sentenced to sixteen months in state prison for parole violations following a 1996 conviction for having bomb components in his car trunk. Roeder, a sovereign citizen and tax protester, violated his parole by not filing tax returns or providing his social security number to his employer.

Ain't looking good folks.

540 So is this Eric Rudolph take 2?  And of those 8 that have been killed, wasn't Eric responsible for like 4 of them?

Quite a body count for a "terrorist movement".

Can I get a vote for "hyper-motivated freak" instead?

541 How many babies will live since some one murdered a murderer?

542
539

Maybe he wanted to go back as a celebrity?

543

The guy Scott Roeder that shot Tiller got some history. He's on the ADL's website listed as a militia member:

[ . . . ]

Ain't looking good folks.

Posted by: Blazer at May 31, 2009 07:29 PM (+FzLa)

He's an obsessed, fringe nutjob. The MSM will paint him as a mainstream conservative but I doubt many people will buy it.

544

I read about 100 comments before I decided that no one was going to post on what I want to mention.

We live in a society that has devalued human life.  Our society has ok'd killing babies in and out of the womb, old people who no longer have great value, and a whole host of people in between.

This lack of value of life is what caused Tiller's death.  To the extent that he, himself, contributed to this lack of value, in a way, he helped along his own death.  To the extent where we on the right tolerate this lack of value, we also contributed to his death.  When we again value life more than convenience or "punishment," no more babies and no more abortionists will be murdered.

545 He's an obsessed, fringe nutjob. The MSM will paint him as a mainstream conservative but I doubt many people will buy it.


Oh no, they'll buy it, because look who was president when he was convicted of having the bomb parts, a Democrat.

546

So, he's a nut with a history of being a nut.

Doesn't link up to us - he's a nut, not unlike William "Let's Murder 25 Million Americans For Not Being Commies" Ayers.

Now, if that shitheap was, say, trusted to babysit a Senator's kids and served on charities distributing millions to other fucking nutcases with said Senator, then maybe a connection could be made. Like with William Fucking Ayers and the President.

But signs point to him being a less well-connected murderous fuckstick than Ayers. No less a shitstain, though.

547 Qwinn,

Well, that's always going to be something that is in the eye of the individual (at least among those not wedded to a religious view of the matter. I don't want to argue about relativism v. eternal truths because well...why bother? The simple fact is people who don't considered themselves bound to a religious dogma aren't going to be impressed by it as an argument, it's just a fact).

So I would say that people who see the unborn as potential life vs. realized life (and the line, artificial or not is moving back all the time) are never going to see abortion as equal or worse than the Nazis or even slavery.

I would say the Nazi comparison is particularly inapt simply because of the targeted nature of the Nazis. The Nazis wanted to wipe specific types of people off the face of the Earth. You can say abortion wipes out a specific type of person, the unborn, but that's a really broad class.

While the result of an abortion has the same consequence and carries the same moral problems, the reasons women have abortions are varied. Quite honestly, I find some more compelling or worthy of sympathy than others. While it might not be possible to condone the action, in many cases, it's hard not to be moved by the plight of the person making it.

The same simply can not be said for the Nazis. There was no chance of what one could consider a mitigating factor in the machine like effort to kill Jews and other groups.

548 Slightly OT, but since this has been tossed enough at our side over the past few years:

1. It's generally agreed among historians now that the communist who the Nazis accused of setting the Reichstag fire, Marinus van der Lubbe, actually did set the fire.

2. As much as we'd like to hope otherwise, chances are this guy wasn't killed by some other guy who he merely screwed over or set up himself to kill him as a martyr.

3.  We seem to have a lot of mobies/trolls today.  Hi y'all!

549 The guy Scott Roeder that shot Tiller got some history. He's on the ADL's website listed as a militia member:

Kansas: Scott Roeder is sentenced to sixteen months in state prison for parole violations following a 1996 conviction for having bomb components in his car trunk. Roeder, a sovereign citizen and tax protester, violated his parole by not filing tax returns or providing his social security number to his employer.

Ain't looking good folks.

Posted by: Blazer at May 31, 2009 07:29 PM (+FzLa)

Terrific... so not only will they use this as an excuse to grab everyone's guns, they'll start shutting down the Tea Parties too.  And they'll probably give Craig T. Nelson the electric chair... I guess I shouldn't hold out too much hope for a sequel to The Incredibles.

550 Where's Tom?  Has he come back?

I miss Tom.

551 I am pro life.
My government thinks I am a terrorist.

552 448 Honda, You just equated the life of a tree, a whale, and seal with baby and a Jew.  They are not equal. 

Whoever shot Tiller is not Wallenberg and EarthFirst is not the Dutch Resistance.

^^No I didn't.

I said that in the eyes of environmental extremists - they are equal.  My point is that liberals will spit piss and vinegar at a guy who murders an abortion doctor - but hold an environmental extremist who spikes trees in the northwest as some kind of hero.

And I'm bitching here that most Americans don't seem to get the very real difference between a man trying to stop a human holocaust and a man who's trying to kill loggers for chopping down ... trees.

553 Man, my math was way off.  It was at least his 268th trimester.
For the record, it was a cowardly act, and the man, now in custody, certainly needs to be held accountable for his actions.

554 Killing the man doesn't stop late-term abortions.

555 Maybe a lefty whacko can kill Scott Roeder's executioner and the cycle of death will continue.

556 "...no one ever thinks of just the executive branch as the government, you are totally wrong on this."

"When people hear goverment, the first association which comes to mind is not the of Souter, Alito and Kennedy, but Obama, Geitner and Gates. Can you really claim otherwise"

Yes, absolutely.  English isn't your first language: did you study English in a Commonwealth country, or have an English from one or primarily educated in one?  You're using the British/Commonwealth usage of "government," i.e., the party in power, headed by the Prime Minister. 

Having worked in politics both in the US and the UK, I can safely say I've never once heard that usage in American English.  An executive (president/governor/mayor) and his/her political appointees here are usually referred to as the administration, not the government. 

The federal government is the government created by the federal constitution, all three branches of it.

557 Timothy J has something resembling a clue.

Throughout the last three administrations, approximately 300 innocent American citizens have died each year at the hands of militarized police forces throughout America. These are 'mistaken' SWAT take downs. They get the wrong house and kill an innocent American - or else kill the wrong American - just about each and every day, day after day, year after year. A Waco or Ruby Ridge-type event each and every day.

Ho-hum and even yawn.

Yet, you demonize one another over ideology and take offense and expressed self-righteous outrage when others demonize yourselves in return...and then you wonder why the bloodshed continues and grows worse with each year and with each decade. ...if, in the midst of your ennui and narcissistic nihilism, you even think about it at all.

In demonizing one another, you dehumanize each human being on the planet. ...and yet are outraged when others commit genocide and murders which you don't approve.

The plan has taken all of that into account. Yet, the suffering that you are all about to experience over the next eighteen months will be highly instructive. Consider it an unavoidable right of passage.

558

I blame Obama.   If he hadn't been so keen to make Sebelius part of his cabinet, no one would have known squat about Tiller. 

559

We can't blame Obama for this: It happened when he was 47 years old.

560 Terrific... so not only will they use this as an excuse to grab everyone's guns, they'll start shutting down the Tea Parties too.


That's what makes this doubly disgusting to me. This guy belonged to a militia group that was anti-tax called the Soveriegn Citizens, kinda like the Freemen Of Montana.

He just validated the MSM and the left's talking points that every one that will attend the next round of tea party protests is a gun toting right-wing nut job.

He's just taken away a lot of credibility from our movement as if we needed his help.

Thanks Tiller, you fuck.

561

I hear Charles Johnson is quite relieved. The creationism and Velaaaams Belaaaang wells were starting to dry up.

562 Yet, you demonize one another over ideology and take offense and expressed self-righteous outrage when others demonize yourselves in return...and then you wonder why the bloodshed continues and grows worse with each year and with each decade. ...if, in the midst of your ennui and narcissistic nihilism, you even think about it at all.

Sorry, Cigarette Man, as much as this is bandied about, it's just not true.  Bloodshed does not continue and grow worse each decade.  Every study I've seen on this recently has shown the number of deaths through war decreasing (that's not even comparing it to say, the kind of loss of life that existed in the 15th century, Mongol invasions, etc.)--Toss into that the decrease in crime in the U.S. compared to a couple decades ago.  Men fought duels in previous centuries over far lighter language than I and my coworkers exchange every day at work.  Fighting with words is the trait of civilized man and one in which I hope and plan to become an expert.

563 Yet, you demonize one another over ideology and take offense and expressed self-righteous outrage when others demonize yourselves in return...and then you wonder why the bloodshed continues and grows worse with each year and with each decade. ...if, in the midst of your ennui and narcissistic nihilism, you even think about it at all.


What's all this "you" crap?

564
I am anti-abortion and I denounce this murder. Two wrongs don't make a right. You can't defeat Satan by doing evil.

565 "I tremble for my country when I remember that God is just."

Thomas Jefferson said that regarding the enslavement of 7 million Africans in the United States. Abraham Lincoln believed that the horror of the Civil War was punishment for the national sin of slavery.

I wonder, how badly is God going to fuck us up for murdering over 40,000,000 of the most defenseless amongst us?

I imagine He's gonna fuck us up pretty hardcore for it.

566

 

Gloria. In Excelsis. Deo.

 

And good riddance.

 

567 Stuggling for breath here. where da nxt tred?

568 Where the hell is Likely?

569 40 million Americans aborted. 30 million illegals swarming into the land like a medieval plague.

Just a coincidence?

570

CoolCzech: 40 million Americans aborted. 30 million illegals swarming into the land like a medieval plague. Just a coincidence?

Nature abhors a vacuum.

 

571 We have heard from mel gibson now.

572 I blame Obama.   If he hadn't been so keen to make Sebelius part of his cabinet, no one would have known squat about Tiller.

As much as I like finding yet another thing to blame on Obama, this ain't one.  Tiller has been known nationwide for decades, with people flying in from all over the country to have late-term abortions or, in some cases, to have their underage daughters have late-term abortions, knowing full well that Tiller would not report statutory rape and incest cases. 

I remember in 1993, there were abortion protesters completely blocking traffic on the main east-west artery through Wichita, in front of his clinic (before he was shot - it died down somewhat after he was shot).  He's better known than the Westboro Baptist Church crowd in Kansas.  WBC is planning on showing up to the vigil they're planning tonight in Old Town in Wichita, by the way - if the Tiller supporters are as rabid and emotional as I think they are, there's a good chance there could be an altercation.

573

"Thomas Jefferson said that regarding the enslavement of 7 million Africans in the United States. Abraham Lincoln believed that the horror of the Civil War was punishment for the national sin of slavery."

There  were  no 7 million negro slaves in the USA in 1810. More like 10,000. therwereprobably less than 7 million people in the US in 1810..

574 Well, that's always going to be something that is in the eye of the individual (at least among those not wedded to a religious view of the matter. I don't want to argue about relativism v. eternal truths because well...why bother? The simple fact is people who don't considered themselves bound to a religious dogma aren't going to be impressed by it as an argument, it's just a fact).

Um.  Dude.  I'm agnostic.  I don't have a dogmatic bone in my body.  I believe abortion is murder of a human life because it's evidently true as a scientific matter.  As far as I'm concerned, you have to have triple thickness dogmatic quasi-religious glasses on to convince yourself it isn't a human life being snuffed out.

Qwinn

575 As Wichita falls, so falls Wichita Falls.

576 Cool, just saying out loud (Ok, typing quiet in my )  What do think would have been the result, If those 40 million BABIES had gone to term? Would we be looking at a different landscape, with reguard  to events current, and future?  I would, for me, just sayin, think that it would be different. Roe vs sucks. We are Damned.

577 There  were  no 7 million negro slaves in the USA in 1810. More like 10,000. therwereprobably less than 7 million people in the US in 1810..

In fact, the entire US population in 1810 was almost exactly 7 million.  So, apparently, -everyone- in the US was a negro slave!  Amazing.  Who woulda thought.

Qwinn

578

Boluifer

Next you'll tell us it wasn't the Germans that bombed Pearl Harbor.:

Alice H.

I'm intrigued by your comment about a WBC vs. abortionists altercation.

I wonder if Fred ever took one of his daughters to see Dr. Tiller.

579 Well being Phelps was a well known Al Gore supporter, hard for me to figure out why he protests anything concerning abortion, let alone homosexuality.

The guys a class-A whack job.

580 the #tiller twitterfeed says the police ran off the WBCers.

I'd be very surprised if any of Phelps's daughters were unsupervised long enough to get pregnant.  One of his sons has written quite a bit of an expose about their family and childhood.  Although it's quite obvious from it that Phelps is controlling and abusive, there wasn't any indication that he was sexually predatory toward his kids.

581

there wasn't any indication that he was sexually predatory toward his kids.

Is there any indication that he doesn't? It would fit in with the apparent brain washing.

582 "Although I'm ambivalent about abortion, it makes my blood boil a little that this freaking hypocrite could do what he did all day and then step into a house of  worship on the weekend. If he could believe that God would condone that sort of practice, does Christianity really have any meaning anymore?"

Yeah, that, word for word.   Karma's not a bitch, Karma's a virgin - bitches are easy.   Forgive me but I feel nothing except "A monster is dead" and "Damn, they're going to blame all of us for it FOREVER."

583 *Michael checks back in*

Wow.  I feel so lame.

Back in the day, maybe five or six years ago, I could kill a thread at will here at AOSHQ.  That's right, my thread-killer skilz were awesome.

Now, not so much.  My thread-killer-fu has grown weak.  I am a tired, old man.

*Michael shuffles off, disappears into a field of corn*

584 Now, not so much.  My thread-killer-fu has grown weak.  I am a tired, old man.



That wouldn't happen if you were wearing a Three Wolf Moon t-shirt.

585 Alice H: Off topic, but I've got to say you've got some great pictures on your blog.

586 Fool @53..."Yeah Tillman needed to be stopped ..."
 Hey when you are playing sockpuppet from hell do you think you could at least get the guy's name right?

 Here's something to help you remember it for your next foray onto a conservative blog ...
 Tiller Tiller the baby killer.
 There. Does that help?
 For the record I hope he and the douche that shot him get to spend eternity together. Now that would be justice.
 Why am I not surprised he was a Lutheran?

587 I would love to punch the guy who shot Tiller in the face. I'm thinking this is going to be a huge setback for prolifers. I live in South Bend and there were massive, peaceful protests of Obama at Notre Dame - but only the crazies got the attention, and the liberal media lumped all pro-lifers in with the crazies. I've already seen people assert that pro-life "rhetoric" caused this. This is just the excuse the Obama administration needs to shut us up for good.

About the only good that could come out of this is that Tiller is no longer able to murder the defenseless unborn - but believe me, I'd much rather have had that happen  through his conversion and repentance. I did not wish death on the man.

588 So when is Obama going to try and pass an amendment to the First Amendment - the "Tiller Exception"?

589

<i>"American Taliban"....?
People are seriously saying that?
Number of people killed by the Taliban: In excess of 16,500
Number of people killed by anti-abortionists:  8
Why, those are perfectly equivalent!</i>

Here's one you can casually toss back to someone who says something that stupid:

If Christianity supported the murder of abortionists, what makes you think there would be any left alive?  Afterall, aren't we all just bitterly clinging to our Bibles and guns?

590 Thanks, DBS.

I think that his son would have said so, if there had been sexual abuse.  He's pretty candid.  Here's a link.

591 Why am I not surprised he was a Lutheran?

*Michael pops head out of corn field*

Yer gettin' my dander up, asshole.  Lutherans have actually always been shoulder-to-shoulder with Catholics in the pro-life movement.

Lutherans for Life

Don't get me wrong, we otherwise don't like Catholics, but they are right about this.

592 CNN is saying that this killing will influence Sotomayor's confirmation since only a wise Latina  can prevent crazy loons from shooting abortion doctors.

593 SarahW...stastical evidence shows the vast vast vast majority of abortions are for birth control purposes.  Stastical evidence shows a woman who has chosen to abort her child has or will have multiple abortions.  If the anti-life crowd would ever own up to the reality of abortions and why they happen (money, greed, birth control) we could have an honest discussion that would likely lead to sensible outcomes.  You know, one's people like O pay verbal homage to but never actually pursue.  Outcomes like, abortion being seen as an awful tragedy that should be RARE.   Outcomes that allow for women truly in medical danger to have options that address there extremely difficult circumstances.  Alas, the anti-life crowd needs every abortion possible to occur because it's about politics, not choice.  O tries to tell us every women who chooses to abort a child has wrangled and fought over this difficult decison.  Would that it were true.  Abortions are requested and performed with the cold, non-emotional, detachment of removing a non-cancerous mole.  Your attempts to repaint the reality any other way are either misinformed or disingenous.

Mr Tiller needed to be in church...there's no where else I'd have him be...hoping that something from God's word and grace would change his heart.  Now, a separate thread could certainly be made about his "standing" in a church as an usher and member. 

Those on the left who call conservatives who don't bemoan this killing hypocrites should have the guts and honesty to make a personal evaluation.  Does anyone here think Keith O and his kind would have missed an opportunity to gloat at an assination of W, and point out that while "tragic" W's death at the hand of a pro-peace crusader certainly saved thousands of lives becuase it denied W the opportunity to continue his "legal" but unjust wars? 

Dr Tiller's opportunity to ask God for mercy and grace that we all need has passed.  I pray that he took advantage of it.

594 >>There were no 7 million negro slaves in the USA in 1810. More like 10,000. therwereprobably less than 7 million people in the US in 1810..

I think your numbers are a little off. There over a 100, 000 slaves in South Carolina alone around the time of the Revolution. I've seen estimates that the slave population in the US around 1810 was around 1 million out of a total population of around 12 million.

Given that there were almost 4 million slaves in 1860, seems a little unlikely there were only 10,000 in 1810.

Still, kind of irrelevant. If you consider slavery to be as abhorrent as abortion, and I do, one slave is too many.

595 Screw you, Michael!  I've got hats bigger than you!

Martin Luther was a whiner!

596 I don't think anyone should be freaking out that we are all going to be painted with a broad brush on this.
 Sure, they'll try, but maybe it's time to point out that in this country we are individuals and it's the left that is into hive-thinking.
So, fight back.
Isn't it time that we stopped being afraid to stand up and say what we think?
 What next? Will we be putting smiley faces and "heart ache" next to everything we write? [oh yeah....I said it...]
 One man killed Tiller. Period. One man. Not any of us, not anyone we know or associate with.
 Unlike Obama I might add, who prefers to hang out with [somewhat successful] murderers,very successful domestic terrorists, racists....
 Ayers anyone? You know the guy that wants to open concentration/re-education camps for conservatives and kill those who won't comply...
 I'm just sayin'.....

597 This was in google cache of operation rescue's site. They have since shut it down. This is a big set back.

----

Scott Roeder Says:
May 19th, 2007 at 4:34 pm
Bleass everyone for attending and praying in May to bring justice to Tiller and the closing of his death camp.
Sometime soon, would it be feasible to organize as many people as possible to attend Tillers church (inside, not just outside) to have much more of a presence and possibly ask questions of the Pastor, Deacons, Elders and members while there? Doesn’t seem like it would hurt anything but bring more attention to Tiller.

598 Martin Luther was a whiner!

Look, Joey, I don't really want to start a religious debate here.  Lutherans really do agree with Catholics on the abortion issue.  You should not construe my further remark about Catholics as being pejorative.  It was just an allusion to some well-known facts, e.g.:

1.  Catholics smell bad.
2.  They breed like monkeys.
3.  They don't know how to throw a decent pot-luck supper in the church basement with tuna casserole and lime jello with carrot shavings.

599

Just to be on the safe side, I was in church in Oklahoma when it happened with lots of witnesses to support my alibi.

I'm assuming that somebody is going to blame me and every other pro-lifer for this crime.

600 Lutherans really do agree with Catholics on the abortion issue.

Missouri and Wisconsin Synods do.  ELCA is squishy-NewAge-progressive-feelgood-Episcopalian.  That's why they let Tiller in their congregation.

601 Michael.....put your head back into the cornfield. the Lutherans are as nutty as hell and you know it......heh.
 Lutherans for life huh?
 Really?
 I guess the pastor of that church didn't read the papers, huh? Or was he just hoping that Tiller would see the light? I mean, really, isn't it just a tad hypocritical to be a Lutheran for life and yet welcome a douchbag like Tiller [hey he may be dead but he isn't canonized yet...] into your church so you can set a really great example?
 Yes lutherans and catholics always voting their concience.
Oh, please.

602 They said John Brown was a no-good crazy sonuvabitch too.

603 But you know what really pisses me off here?  Tiller was 67.  What's the average retirement age for surgeons?  Guy had limited baby-killing time left before age--eyesight, fine motor skills, etc--was going to force him into less gruesome work.  But now NARAL et al have a martyr to push public opinion into federal funding, loosening state and federal restrictions...the murder is going to drive the killing of more total babies than killing Tiller saves.

Lousy strategy.

604 They don't know how to throw a decent pot-luck supper in the church basement with tuna casserole and lime jello with carrot shavings.

Doesn't sit well with the beer, Mikey darlin'.

605 ELCA is squishy

True enough, as to some elements, but not all.

I forgot to mention something else about Catholics:  an alarming number of them are brown people!!!

606 "Um.  Dude.  I'm agnostic.  I don't have a dogmatic bone in my body.  I believe abortion is murder of a human life because it's evidently true as a scientific matter.  As far as I'm concerned, you have to have triple thickness dogmatic quasi-religious glasses on to convince yourself it isn't a human life being snuffed out."

Now there's the kind of agnostic or atheist I can be friends with.   Someone with common sense.   I'm ambivalent about the legality of abortion because I'm not sure I can make the argument that the unborn child has a right to occupy the mother's body if she says "No."   It's hard to explain, but there are explanations for this.   However, I know it is a moral evil and it's a hell of an extreme "choice" to make.  So I normally keep quiet.  But elective third trimester abortions, not so much.  

But if you ever want to press the buttons on an abortion debate, you ask a pro-choice advocate if we could snap our fingers and tomorrow have a machine that safely (even safer than abortion, which is not safe) and with no risk to mother or baby REMOVE the unborn fetus to a synthetic womb in which it can reach full term, does the woman still have the RIGHT to kill it instead, they will always, without fail, tell you that yes, she absolutely still has the right to kill it instead.   Because it's her "Dna" or some such nonsensical position that doesn't hold up to scrutiny.   Try the thought experiment with a staunch pro-abortion person sometime and see if I'm not right.    Intelligent conservative pro-choicers not included, obviously.   I've tried that one a dozen times and it's always the same.

607 HeatherRadish...I agree with you, and we need to get out in front of this.
 Why should anyone mourn Tiller's death [which is one person] more than the thousands of children he murdered? Was he more valid as a human than those he killed? No, he was not.
 P-E-R-S-P-E-C-T-I-V-E.
 

And I still say Lutherans suck.....heh heh heh...put that in your pipe and smoke it Michael......

608 Because it's her "Dna" or some such nonsensical position that doesn't hold up to scrutiny.

And yet the contributor of the other 13 alleles has no say in the matter whatsoever, especially if he wants the baby to born.  I've never understood that.

609 I bet LGF will have a field day with this for the next year or so. This will be Johnson's primary evidence that all conservatives are probably domestic terrorists and only his blog doesn't allow such hateful comments.

610 There will be a great wailing and grinding of teeth on all the AM "news" shows tomorrow. THIS is the only real terrorism in the world these days..

611 "IMHO (and accepting the strikeout), yes, absolutely, obviously.  I'm appalled that anyone would argue differently.  The difference is guilt versus innocence.  That used to matter.  And I scratched out supporters because that's a silly and unwarranted extension of what happened here.

Qwinn"

So what was Tiller guilty of? He was guilty of doing something in YOUR OPINION is wrong. Are you the final arbiter of what is right or wrong? Is your OPINION any more right than someone who disagrees with you?

612 christmasghost, I think you misread me.  I didn't say anything about "mourning" Tiller, only that his death is going to result in the killing of more babies than if he had not been murdered.  Which is just stupid, and needless. 

I'm really pissed at the shooter.

613 Posted by: palin steele at May 31, 2009 09:32 PM (VDj74)

Yay, now we're just missing Tom!

614 Annie..."I'm ambivalent about the legality of abortion because I'm not sure I can make the argument that the unborn child has a right to occupy the mother's body if she says "No."
 Okay....here's a thought. What if you invited a guy over for dinner and then halfway through the meal decided that he was icky so you sucked his brains out.Do you really think anyone would side with your "choice"?
 No one has to get pregnant in this day and age. Abortion is used as a birth control method by morons.
So if you don't want anyone "occupying" your body then I suggest that you A. keep your knees together. or B. use contraception.
 It's called responsibility for cripes sake....

615 I will never forget where i was when i heard the news.  I was on the shitter purging last nites tacos and Labatts.  No wait.. I was driving when an important news flash came over the radio.. no wait.. who the hell are we talking about again and why do we care???

616 "And yet the contributor of the other 13 alleles has no say in the matter whatsoever, especially if he wants the baby to born.  I've never understood that."

because he isn't the one who has to carry the baby to term, who has to deal with having a baby in him, to deal with the pain, risks, etc that come with every pregnancy. When he does, then he has the right to have a say. Perhaps, one day, science will allow a man to carry a baby...until that day comes, its all on the women.

617 You know what, I'm sick of sitting here waiting.  We had one of the most unintentionally hilarious trolls ever on this site and you all chased him away.  I'm going to find him.  Wherever he has gone, whatever corner of the internet he has crept to, I'm going to find him. I'm going to find him and.Bring.Him.Back.

618 HeatherRadish...poor choice of wording on my part. I agree completely that this is bad news on many levels. I am suggesting that we get out in front of this and not allow conservatives to be defined by one idiot.

619 Is your OPINION any more right than someone who disagrees with you?

Sorta.  See, this is why the abortion debate goes nowhere with Christians.  Our opinion does not matter, God's opinion does.

"Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, before you were born I set you apart" (Jeremiah 1:5).

"Even before I was born, God had chosen me to be His" (Galatians 1:15).

"For You created my inmost being; You knit me together in my mother’s womb . . . Your eyes saw my unformed body. All the days ordained for me were written in Your book before one of them came to be" (Psalm 139:13, 16). "Your hands shaped me and made me . . . Did You not clothe me with skin and flesh and knit me together with bones and sinews? You gave me life" (Job 10:8–12).

"This is what the Lord says—He who made you, who formed you in the womb" (Isaiah 44:2).

"Did not He who made me in the womb make them? Did not the same One form us both within our mothers?" (Job 31:15).

620 "But if you ever want to press the buttons on an abortion debate, you ask a pro-choice advocate if we could snap our fingers and tomorrow have a machine that safely (even safer than abortion, which is not safe) and with no risk to mother or baby REMOVE the unborn fetus to a synthetic womb in which it can reach full term, does the woman still have the RIGHT to kill it instead, they will always, without fail, tell you that yes, she absolutely still has the right to kill it instead.   Because it's her "Dna" or some such nonsensical position that doesn't hold up to scrutiny.   Try the thought experiment with a staunch pro-abortion person sometime and see if I'm not right.    Intelligent conservative pro-choicers not included, obviously.   I've tried that one a dozen times and it's always the same."

not everyone (ie majority) do not believe that embryo is a living being

621 Tiller was not a murderer. Murder is defined as the unlawful killing of a human.

622 "Perhaps, one day, science will allow a man to carry a baby...until that day comes, its all on the women."

Except not, because if she DOES choose to carry the baby to term, he's responsible for child support until it's 18.

623 This guy was a bit actor of the anti american, anti freedom, anti-human life left.  Comparable to a dickhead guard at Treblinka who turned the valve to release the gas.  Lets not blow this "Tragedy" out of proportion and make him more important than he is.

624 "Yay, now we're just missing Tom!" -AD

what the hell are you babbling about?

625 because he isn't the one who has to carry the baby to term, who has to deal with having a baby in him, to deal with the pain, risks, etc that come with every pregnancy.

Too bad there's nothing she could do like, say, giving up the kid up to another person to obviate all that (what would you call it? padoption...badoption... whatever)  Definitely too bad.  Someone should invent that.

626 palin steele......"Perhaps, one day, science will allow a man to carry a baby...."
 Hey tool...it's already happened haven't you heard? Just like al gore told us about global warming, the lefties told us about a man in Oregon that gave birth last year.
 Sheesh...what planet have you been on dude?

627 what the hell are you babbling about?

Posted by: palin steele at May 31, 2009 09:39 PM (VDj74)

Huh, you were a reader of this site, as you said (not a troll!), but you don't know who Tom was...

I'm shocked.

628
"Except not, because if she DOES choose to carry the baby to term, he's responsible for child support until it's 18."

you have a good point there. but the inconsistency works both ways. While man has no right to tell a woman not to abort, he also has no right to tell a woman to abort.

629

VD hash, aka Hoosier Hoops, aka palin steele

Time to leave.

 

630 621 Tiller was not a murderer. Murder is defined as the unlawful killing of a human.

Posted by: John ryan at May 31, 2009 09:38 PM (behNH)

I agree. None of the Nazis ever committed murder either.

631 palin steele ...."not everyone (ie majority) do not believe that embryo is a living being.."
 Really? Then why have an abortion, because if "it" isn't a living being nothing is going to happen right?
 Let me guess ...public school and you skipped all that stupid biology right?

632 " Hey tool...it's already happened haven't you heard? Just like al gore told us about global warming, the lefties told us about a man in Oregon that gave birth last year.
 Sheesh...what planet have you been on dude?"

um..that was a woman, not a man. tard.

633 Hoosier, put up or shut up.

634 "Too bad there's nothing she could do like, say, giving up the kid up to another person to obviate all that (what would you call it? padoption...badoption... whatever)  Definitely too bad.  Someone should invent that."

yeah, I can just see pro-life women lining up to volunteer their own bodies to save the lives of innocents...oh wait...

635 While man has no right to tell a woman not to abort, he also has no right to tell a woman to abort.

But a woman has a right to tell a baby she must suffer the abortion.

636 "Tiller was not a murderer. Murder is defined as the unlawful killing of a human."

If you really want to play semantic hair-splitting word games, you have no idea who you're dealing with.  Murder at common law was the unlawful AND MALICIOUS killing of ANOTHER human being.  Your definition encompasses manslaughter, tortious non-criminal negligence and, perhaps most ridiculously, suicide.

637

Still not sure if the perp is Christian, but as it turns out today is the feast of Pentecost.

Thought I'd look up the readings, and these verses are in there:

But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control; against such there is no law. (Galatians 5:22-23)

638 "Then why have an abortion, because if "it" isn't a living being nothing is going to happen right?"

so the only time you remove something is if it is living? what kind of weird rationale is that? people remove tumors, warts, etc all the time...none of those are living beings, maybe people should just keep them.

639 yeah, I can just see pro-life women lining up to volunteer their own bodies to save the lives of innocents...oh wait...

Ahem, it's called adoption, dumbass--that's what I was referencing, not surrogate motherhood.

And I do get a kick out of the idea that me willing to help or caring about somebody is the criteria for whether or not they should live.

640 um..that was a woman, not a man. tard.

I know plenty of woman who are tools.  They usually are the ones who wish they were born a man

641

Im shocked to hear he was at church. I figured someone as evil as Tiller surely was an atheist. I fully realize that everyone sins, but how someone could reconcile his lifestyle with Christian faith is beyond comprehension. 

642

Hoosier, your cover is off.

643 "But a woman has a right to tell a baby she must suffer the abortion."

actually, no...no woman can abort a baby. a baby, by definition, is a human being. A fetus is not. but this is not the time nor place for that debate, which also is a fruitless debate. I'd be better off arguing against a devout hindu why eating cows isn't sacrilegious.

644 ..If you really want to play semantic hair-splitting word games, you have no idea who you're dealing with.

If you are expecting a rational response from John ryan, or any answer for that matter, then you have no idea who you are dealing with.

645 Palin steele, whether the embryo is or isn't alive (which is the dumbest question I've ever heard) is entirely irrelevant to the question in the thought experiment.  If it can be REMOVED and disposed of from the mother then what gives her any further rights over it, precisely?

646 no lace wigs today, thank you!

647 So what was Tiller guilty of? He was guilty of doing something in YOUR OPINION is wrong. Are you the final arbiter of what is right or wrong? Is your OPINION any more right than someone who disagrees with you?

Listen, genius.  If someone wanted to deny a fetus is a human life in the first 4 weeks or so, I can (although I disagree) understand their point of view and not consider them a barbaric ignorant scumbag for believing it.

But Tiller was specifically all about -late term- abortions.  There is no freaking "opinion" about whether it's a human life.  Any ultrasound will make it obvious.  Hell, the -method- of these abortions (like partial birth, pulling it mostly out feet first, sticking a spike into the back of the head and sucking out the brain until the skull implodes) makes it very clear that this is killing a fully formed human life, not a "clump of cells".  And I've seen the remains.  It isn't a matter of opinion.  And it's not even like moronic global warming "beyond debate" "fact".  It's physically provable.  There is no excuse for thinking late term abortion isn't taking a human life except willful - and utterly barbaric - ignorance.

Qwinn

648 "I figured someone as evil as Tiller surely was an atheist." - Matt

true, religious folk simply can't do something so evil because GOD WILL SMITE THEM!!! Oh those atheist slave owners, those talibans and their atheistic culture, those radical muslims and their secular support...damn atheists, they always are so zealous and violent!

649 Why are our trolls getting so worked up? Tiller was the victim of a manmade disaster. Shit happens.

650 but this is not the time nor place for that debate,

You wanted a debate, buddy, I'll let up when I get bored or have to back to work for tomorrow.

actually, no...no woman can abort a baby. a baby, by definition, is a human being. A fetus is not.

A fetus, once the umbilical cord has been cut, is the exact same thing it was a few minutes earlier in the womb.  That's the baby that gets killed in partial birth abortion.  That's the woman who dies.  That's the woman whose opinion you aren't consulting on this matter.

651 "Palin steele, whether the embryo is or isn't alive (which is the dumbest question I've ever heard) is entirely irrelevant to the question in the thought experiment.  If it can be REMOVED and disposed of from the mother then what gives her any further rights over it, precisely?"

if your organ (say kidney) can save another person's life and can be removed without harming you, is the government allowed to enforce removal of kidneys? What right do you have to prevent the life of another from being saved? You only need one kidney afterall.

652 Oh those atheist slave owners, those talibans and their atheistic culture, those radical muslims and their secular support...damn atheists, they always are so zealous and violent!


Hi there!

653
I'll bet Brian Dennehy is one of those stinkin' Catholics.  At least he's not brown.

654 Hoosier Hoops, time to go home.

655 um..that was a woman, not a man. tard. *palin steele*
 Yes dumbass...I know that.....that was tongue in cheek as the "shemale" was constantly spoken of as the first "man to give birth" by the "media"....

 And now you are comparing a baby to a tumor? Wow, you have some serous mommy issues don't you?
 Well that and that whole comprehension thing...........

656 I'm going to go think long and hard about this tragedy.  I hope i'm not out of TP...

657 Oh those atheist slave owners, those talibans and their atheistic culture, those radical muslims and their secular support...damn atheists, they always are so zealous and violent!


Yo,

658 Hey Hoosier ! Kindly wipe C.J.'s choad off your face before coming over to Ace's place. Kinda' fucks up the decorum over here, know what I mean ?

659 Palin Steele rode the short bus to troll school.

660 If I were to walk into a hospital and demand that my (perfectly healthy) right arm be cut off because "it's my body!" I would be refused be cause it's unethical.

661 Oh those atheist slave owners, those talibans and their atheistic culture, those radical muslims and their secular support...damn atheists, they always are so zealous and violent!


Hey, how's it going?

662 Oh those atheist slave owners, those talibans and their atheistic culture, those radical muslims and their secular support...damn atheists, they always are so zealous and violent!

Don't make me come up there.

663 dammit

664 660 If I were to walk into a hospital and demand that my (perfectly healthy) right arm be cut off because "it's my body!" I would be refused be cause it's unethical.

No you would be committed for a psych eval

665 oh btw, I find this very confusing. pro-lifers believe abortion is murder. yet they are now saying killing a murder is not the right way to solve things. I'm utterly perplexed by this seeming contradiction because I thought killing killers was exactly the right thing to do to save innocents. Maybe, just maybe, that abortion = murder nonsense is held with a lot less conviction than most people let on.

For example, I believe the guys who did 9/11 were murderous monsters. Would I bat a lash if one of the passengers slit his throat...no, i'd be celebrating the hero for stopping a murderer.

So conservatives, get it straight, either you celebrate this 'killer' or you stop equating abortion with murder. You can't have it both ways.

666 Look, people, think about this.

Tiller's murder would not have happened if Dick Cheney had just cock-slapped him a few times.

Just think about that. Is Dick slowing down?

667 So conservatives, get it straight, either you celebrate this 'killer' or you stop equating abortion with murder. You can't have it both ways.

That is about as incoherent an argument as has ever grace this website.  I award you no points.

668

PS 616

Perhaps science will help us solve the problem of women paying their own damn child support.

669 oh btw, I find this very confusing. pro-lifers believe abortion is murder. yet they are now saying killing a murder is not the right way to solve things. I'm utterly perplexed by this seeming contradiction because I thought killing killers was exactly the right thing to do to save innocents. Maybe, just maybe, that abortion = murder nonsense is held with a lot less conviction than most people let on.


Kill OJ and see what happens to you.

Really.  Go ahead.  Think of it as a scientific expirement.

670 "if your organ (say kidney) can save another person's life and can be removed without harming you, is the government allowed to enforce removal of kidneys?"

No.

671 where did my ho Wenday go? bitch better not'va gotten that abortion without me we were supposed to celebrate together!

672 Fucking crazed knuckleheads.

Hall of Fame post, ace. Great pro-assassination stuff.

!!Sarah 2028!!!

673

palin steele.  you are Hoosier Hoops.

 

674 I haven't felt so morally lost since the day Jeff Dahmer got the shank in prison.....

675 "That is about as incoherent an argument as has ever grace this website.  I award you no points."

Let me spell it out for you. Usually in society, a guy who kills a person actively committing murders is not considered a loon, nutjob, etc (terms conservatives have used to actively separate themselves from this 'killer')...usually that guy is a hero. So this guy killed Tiller, who is actively commiting murder if you believe laterterm abortion to be murder, so why do suddenly most of you staunch prolife conservatives not cheer his heroics and instead want to label him an extremist?

676 What the hell was that?

677 That is about as incoherent an argument as has ever grace this website.

Man, you are obviously not reading my stuff.

*Michael shuffles off, disappears into the corn field*

678 Posted by: palin steele at May 31, 2009 10:00 PM (VDj74)

It is interesting that arguments over abortion basically consist of attacking the motives, charity, volunteerism, and consistency of pro-lifers.

...Not so much defending a person stabbing a pair of scissors into a baby's skull and sucking its brains out.

Just avoid that part of it and attack your opponents some more.  I'm sure that will make your case.

679

If the sock doesn't fit, we must acquit.

Palin, answer.

680

Gee, you would think that palin steele, who according to himself, agrees with conservatives on 60% of issues, would statistically be required to at least OCCAISIONALLY post something in agreement with one of the regular commenters here.

Is it too late to abort his dumb ass?  I'm worried about the mental health of his mother.  And that fucking loser that he claims he's sleeping with.

681 The argument wasn't improved by elaboration.

682 Why couldn't this Scott douchebag have come up with a Gran Torino scenario?

683 661 Oh those atheist slave owners, those talibans and their atheistic culture, those radical muslims and their secular support...damn atheists, they always are so zealous and violent!


Hey, how's it going?

Posted by: Pol Pot at May 31, 2009 09:57 PM (bBOfX)


Awesome that you guys are all here! Where's the party?

684 "Kill OJ and see what happens to you." -AD

If OJ has killed indiscriminately, has publicly admitted doing so, and has let the public know he will not stop, then I would gladly be the one to put a bullet between his eyes.

You do realize Tiller didn't retire, he would still be committing abort...murder. So your OJ analogy is ludicrous.

685 Are you or are you not hoosier hoops?

686 Where's the party?

At Lenin's crib.

687 You do realize Tiller didn't retire, he would still be committing abort...murder. So your OJ analogy is ludicrous.

Posted by: palin steele at May 31, 2009 10:08 PM (VDj74)


Fortunately, OJ doesn't have a violent temper that would lead him to threaten other people's lives again.

Oh wait...

(And he's still making his arguments merely by attacking pro-lifers.  Good work, dude.)

688 "Gee, you would think that palin steele, who according to himself, agrees with conservatives on 60% of issues, would statistically be required to at least OCCAISIONALLY post something in agreement with one of the regular commenters here." - empire

we haven't had posts on

- immigration
-death penalty
- torture (which I did post about...I said I respected liz cheneys awesome debating skills but just would wish someone would have the balls to ask libs what is so wrong even if waterboarding WAS torture..i wont bat a lash if we torture terrorist scum)
- welfare

etc

I've always said I disagreed with conservatives on taxes, abortion, gun control

689 palin steele

They are just jealous because you are so damn pretty and they will never be prom queen... Now fix me turkey pot pie bitch

690 682 Why couldn't this Scott douchebag have come up with a Gran Torino scenario?

Posted by: Pinandpuller at May 31, 2009 10:07 PM (07w/N)

--Which reminds me, I just saw that on the flight back home Thursday. Will wait for the ont to expound. . . .

691 686 Where's the party?

At Lenin's crib.

Posted by: Zombie Che at May 31, 2009 10:10 PM (PD1tk)


Great! thanks Zombie Che!

692

<i>If OJ has killed indiscriminately, has publicly admitted doing so, and has let the public know he will not stop, then I would gladly be the one to put a bullet between his eyes.</i>

No, you wouldn't, you dripping pussy.  You're the bitch who couldn't conscience owning a gun to defend the very lives and virtue of your family, and now you want to act like you have the stones to kill someone?

Bullshit.  Full stop, motherfucker.  Take your keyboard warrior bitch ass back to fucking DU, or the Hufftards, or whatever other lefty sewer you crawled out from.

You don't get to pretend you're a man here.

693 Are you Hoosier Hoops?

694 Hey Hoosier! Was Tiller on Irish Rose's self-proclaimed hit list? You would know.

695 @675


Because we're a nation of laws, whether we agree with them or not. If the shoe were on the other foot and abortion were outlawed I have no doubt that left wing extremists would be gunning down pregnant women in grocery store parking lots.

Now go back home to LGF Charles needs his dick sucked and get your fuckin' shinebox.

696 From palin steele's issue list, I'd have to say he lines up on absolutely every possible metric with the term "liberal fascist".  It's actually a pretty consistent worldview.  The bits where he agrees with conservatives, I have no doubt he does for all the wrong reasons.

Qwinn

697 still no one has answered my question of why one would label abortion murder yet fear to celebrate one who commits and would continue to commit such 'murder'...I won't hold my breath

698

Dammit!

Anyways, now working on beer #1.  Hope the ont comes up soon. . . .

699 693 Are you Hoosier Hoops?

Posted by: Who Knows at May 31, 2009 10:13 PM (0aQsc)

YOU WANT THE TRUTH???????

700 Most critics of the Nazis sit back and do little.  Ergo, there criticism doesn't have merit and I'm not going to spend time actually analyzing them, just attacking their critics.

701

Arse.

You answer if you are Hoosier Hoops.

702 we haven't had posts on

- immigration
-death penaltyOh, cool.

So maybe we can agree that you should be deported or shot?

703 palin steele, you've been answered 10,000 times, you silly twit.  Because we are a nation of laws.  I realize that doesn't matter to liberal fascists who believe laws are merely an exercise of power, but the rest of us have our own consistent worldview that feels otherwise.

Qwinn

704 "Because we're a nation of laws, whether we agree with them or not. "

that's prob what the citizens of germany said in WW2..."but they legalized killing jews, and we're just law abiding germans, we have to abide by the law...its the FRIGGIN LAW dammit...my own moral conscience be damned"

705

From now on, palin steele is a troll from LGF.

 

706 still no one has answered my question of why one would label slavery an abomination yet fear to celebrate one who goes around killing pro-slavery supporters...I won't hold my breath

707 "Most critics of the Nazis sit back and do little."

Nazis still reign terror today?...awesome! 

708 @694


Interesting you should mention that rwv. Who the fuck would make a hitlist but an extremist. Oh whats that you say, the person hasn't been banned from LGF for making a hitlist and leaving threats on other blogs ?

Guess that means Charles condones extremism. If someone ends up getting shot he'll be wholly responsible.

709 still no one has answered my question of why one would label abortion murder yet fear to celebrate one who commits and would continue to commit such 'murder'...I won't hold my breath

So if we celebrate both the murder of unborn children and of the man who murders them?  Would that consistency satisfy your stupid fucking question?

Holy shit, you are so fucking dumb it beggars description.

Your question has been asked and answered many times in the above thread.  I'd ask you to read it, you lazy cocksucker, but you've already proven you're too dumb to understand it.

Why do you come here for these repeated beatdowns?  Are you that starved for attention? 

710 700 Most critics of the Nazis sit back and do little.  Ergo, there criticism doesn't have merit and I'm not going to spend time actually analyzing them, just attacking their critics.

Posted by: palin steele ca. 1935 at May 31, 2009 10:16 PM (bBOfX)

Dude, I told you.  Most critics of Nazism sat around doing nothing.  So their criticism didn't have merit.

711 703 palin steele, you've been answered 10,000 times, you silly twit
Posted by: Qwinn

HEY HEY HEY, take that kind of garbage mouth somewhere else!

712 Hey Palin,
Tell Chuckles the Clown we all say Hi! You should check back into LGF. Chuckles probably has bike shorts he needs you to wash out for him. Long evening with Mandy Manners...

713 oh, that was just a typo for twat, my bad

714 Nazis still reign terror today?...awesome!

Posted by: palin steele at May 31, 2009 10:19 PM (VDj74)

My future self is apparently unaware of the "ca." abbreviation. Or what the date afterwards means.  My apologies.  Alzheimers.

715 "So if we celebrate both the murder of unborn children and of the man who murders them?  Would that consistency satisfy your stupid fucking question?

Holy shit, you are so fucking dumb it beggars description.

Your question has been asked and answered many times in the above thread.  I'd ask you to read it, you lazy cocksucker, but you've already proven you're too dumb to understand it.

Why do you come here for these repeated beatdowns?  Are you that starved for attention? "

you dumbass, if you think abortion is murder, and a man kills a well-known abortion doctor...then you should be jumping up and down at the thought of all te lives that the dead doctor won't take.

And repeated beatdowns...puhlease...more like getting gang-raped by a buncha dickless fucks.

716 @611: idiotic argument, palin-steele.

What is the guy that killed Tiller guilty of, except what "in our opinion" is wrong?

717 Obviously this murder is tragic from so many perspectives. To shoot someone in his church, no less -- I'm thinking that gives you extra pitchforks up your ass in hell (at least I hope it does).

609 I bet LGF will have a field day with this for the next year or so. This will be Johnson's primary evidence that all conservatives are probably domestic terrorists and only his blog doesn't allow such hateful comments.
Posted by: ZeroDamage at May 31, 2009 09:30 PM (rv3OB)

Yeah, he's already put up four separate posts about this event, with the expected scouring of the internet for evidence that the shooter was known by right-wing groups (frankly, I found most of the posts pretty mild -- particularly the one from 2007 where the guy suggests some Op Rescue folks attend the church to apply peer pressure on the minister there) and tons of posts from blog comments sections proving how awful the right-wing fringe is... I assume in Carhles Jhonson's mind that's any pro-lifer.

Anyway, I think the best thing to do is to pray for the victim's family, as well as the family of the shooter.

718 I'd ask you to read it, you lazy cocksucker,

THAT brought a tear to my eye. beautiful. just beautiful.

719 you dumbass, if you think abortion is murder, and a man kills a well-known abortion doctor...then you should be jumping up and down at the thought of all te lives that the dead doctor won't take.

See, the cool thing about this is it allows me to attack you guys while avoiding the actual argument.  It's also why I can support Nazism and slavery.

720 (happily munching popcorn and drinking beer)

721 Let me guess Average Joe American's response:

Oh, that's horrible. The killer sounds like a nut.  Late-term abortions? Ewww.  He was a churchgoer? WTF kind of a church condones late-term abortions? Ewww. that is messed up.

Disgust at both parties involved. Call it a wash.

722 Can we talk about how Obama is ineligible for President in like 3 different ways???  I've got a lot of comments on that one.  My heart just isn't in to Tiller.

723 alright, i'm done. i've let my thoughts on the issue be known. I actually respect the man who killed tiller because he truly sacrificed for what he believed in....obviously i think he is a nutjob who should be jailed (but only because i completely disagree with his viewpoint on abortion).

alright, g'night everyone...don't take these matters to heart. we live in a great country where we can disagree and hold different opinions and values.

724

bitch better not'va gotten that abortion without me we were supposed to celebrate together!

And have some dead-baby soup together. Ho.

725 and now i've got a bad case of the munchies, dude. muncheeeeeees. bad. breaking bad. gee, man, i hope wendy's old man ain't no air traffic controler.

726

 Matt 641 (couldn't resist)

Suffer the little children to come unto me...

What could an abortionist misconstrue with that statement?

727 Since you like analogies, let me put it to you this way, you slobbering waterhead halfwit:

If Janeane Garafolo gunned you down as you were walking down the aisle to solemnize your commitment ceremony with your homo life mate, I would urge her prosecution for your murder while simultaneously not giving a fuck* about your bleeding corpse.

I don't approve of murderers or murdering shitbags.

Does that clear things up for you a bit?



*_{most likely this would be expressed by consuming Glenlivet and Tostitos with a Hint of Lime while watching the news coverage.}

728 Tiller was not a murderer. Murder is defined as the unlawful killing of a human.


JR,
Right you are.

I bet Dr. Tiller and Dr. Mengele having a pissing contest in Hell on who legally killed more. But it wasn't illegal now was it?

729 alright, i'm done. i've let my thoughts on the issue be known. I actually respect the man who killed tiller because he truly sacrificed for what he believed in....obviously i think he is a nutjob who should be jailed (but only because i completely disagree with his viewpoint on abortion).

And you thought the 9/11 hijackers were brave because they were actually "hands on?" 

Sorry, didn't mean to slap Bill Maher's cock out of your mouth while you were making a fool of yourself.

730 "Since you like analogies, let me put it to you this way, you slobbering waterhead halfwit:

If Janeane Garafolo gunned you down as you were walking down the aisle to solemnize your commitment ceremony with your homo life mate, I would urge her prosecution for your murder while simultaneously not giving a fuck* about your bleeding corpse.

I don't approve of murderers or murdering shitbags.

Does that clear things up for you a bit?"

So you view me as a shitbag equates to you viewing dr. tiller as a murderer? A shitbag in your eyes is the same as a murderer...wow.

731 and, um, I'm not gay...in the least

732

No denial, even now.

palin steele is Hoosier Hoops.

 

733 And yet the contributor of the other 13 alleles has no say in the matter whatsoever, especially if he wants the baby to born.  I've never understood that."

because he isn't the one who has to carry the baby to term, who has to deal with having a baby in him, to deal with the pain, risks, etc that come with every pregnancy. When he does, then he has the right to have a say. Perhaps, one day, science will allow a man to carry a baby...until that day comes, its all on the women.

As long as a man can choose to have the woman abort or completely and totally abrogate all parental responsibilities (eg, being forced to continue in a potentially deadly job such as firefighting in order to pay child support), then yes.
Until that day comes, it should be a right of the man to chose abortion as well.

734 and, um, I'm not gay...in the least

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAA!!!!!!!


Nice fucking try, boy.  Go ahead and tell us about your girlfriend who is Teh Hawt!11!!1 lying next to you as you post this.

You get NOTHING!

You LOSE!

Good DAY, Sir!

735

Who cares if he is gay.

I don't.

He is a liar.

736 Micheal Moore calls the assassin a "minuteman" right?

Or was that Rall praising Sunni insurgents?

737 How the fuck...?

The stupidity that this combox can attract just baffles my mind.  Humanity may never recover from the idiocy of this thread.

Check this shit out:

1) PRINCIPLE: Killing people is wrong
2) FACT: Pre-born babies are human
3) CONCLUSION: Therefore, killing preborn babies is wrong.

Now here comes a unicorn crapping a skittles rainbow of wisdom right into your brain.  Gird your loins.

1) PRINCIPLE: Killing people is wrong
2) FACT: Tiller was a human
3) CONCLUSION: Therefore, killing Tiller was wrong.


And that, ladies and gents, is how a pro-lifer is both against killing babies and killing Tiller.  If this still doesn't make sense to you, then go back to LGF and insert cock into mouth.

Losing posting privileges at AOS for stupidity is exceptionally difficult.  But not recognizing this... how can a person be such a dipshit and yet manage to type?

And BTW, your welcome for the free education.

738 Alright George you may have me in body count but....

I died in my bed ...BITCH

739 I cannot imagine worse timing.

Kathleen Sebelius, whom Teh One has put in charge of his #1 project, health care, thus making her Obama's right-hand person, is a PERSONAL FRIEND of Tiller. (Not to mention the hundreds of thousands of dollars in contributions she's received from him and his PAC.) She is an extremely hard-hearted, stubborn, dig-her-heels-in type person, as evidenced by her defiance of her bishop's (Sebelius is "Catholic") repeated pleas, exhortations, admonitions to repent of her abortion advocacy. So what this tells me is that since someone has shot down her personal friend, George Tiller, she will most likely double down on persecuting pro-life people. Any chance pro-life people might have had of simply being LEFT ALONE by Obama's Culture of Death health-care juggernaut may now, tragically, have evaporated completely. (Not that there was much chance to begin with, but still...)

One detail I feel obliged to point out. Numerous people in this thread have talked about "hundreds" of babies killed by Tiller. Folks, he's killed hundreds EVERY MONTH. Over the decades of his career, that comes out to tens of thousands of young people killed by this one man's hands.

Several commenters have suggested the possibility that the Left killed him in order to pin it on us, in an effort to shut down the pro-life movement, kill talk radio, and finish off the Second Amendment. I have to admit, it's hard to think of any single action at this time that would more effectively aid the Left in all three of those goals.

Shit.

Gonna be hard to sleep tonight.

740

PS:  true, religious folk simply can't do something so evil because GOD WILL SMITE THEM!!!

You gotta admit-he got smited.  Or smote.  Or smitten if you will.

741 I'll be back.

742

See? I'm back.

743 "if your organ (say kidney) can save another person's life and can be removed without harming you, is the government allowed to enforce removal of kidneys?"

Your kidney is not genetically distinct from you, nor is it capable of surviving on its own and becoming a conscious sentient being.  Another discrete human life is not an organ.

744 And BTW, your welcome for the free education.

Booyah.

745 "How the fuck...?

The stupidity that this combox can attract just baffles my mind.  Humanity may never recover from the idiocy of this thread.

Check this shit out:

1) PRINCIPLE: Killing people is wrong
2) FACT: Pre-born babies are human
3) CONCLUSION: Therefore, killing preborn babies is wrong.

Now here comes a unicorn crapping a skittles rainbow of wisdom right into your brain.  Gird your loins.

1) PRINCIPLE: Killing people is wrong
2) FACT: Tiller was a human
3) CONCLUSION: Therefore, killing Tiller was wrong.


And that, ladies and gents, is how a pro-lifer is both against killing babies and killing Tiller.  If this still doesn't make sense to you, then go back to LGF and insert cock into mouth.

Losing posting privileges at AOS for stupidity is exceptionally difficult.  But not recognizing this... how can a person be such a dipshit and yet manage to type?

And BTW, your welcome for the free education." - Sir Dipshit

ok, i didnt want to post anymore but have to respond to this idiocy

1) Principle: Preventing a murderer from killing innocents is good.
2) Fact: Killing Tiller prevents Tiller from committing further abortions (which to pro-lifers is the worst murder, that of beings who can't defend themselves)
3) Conclusion: Therefore, (follow me here), killing Tiller is good.

746

So let me get this straight, here:  abortion is murder, but murder ISN'T murder?  Is that the 'logic' that some of you are following?


yeah because there is no difference between a mass murderer of innocents who kills for greed and someone who disposes of such a character. the guy is in custody and will spend the rest of his life in jail..that is justice acording to the law. i hope there is a hell so tiller can enjoy the barbed cock of satan.

and don't give me anything about scriptures or any other moral codes...i believe actions have consequences good and bad, sorry if it's not pc but i can't feel any sympathy for tiller or anyone in his family..how this guy could look at his 4 kids or 10 grandchildren is beyond me.

just like people pretend that they are outraged that some piece of shit child rapist gets killed in prison the facade is transparent and can not hide what most consider a warranted response.

wendy i can only wish you get a kidney stone the size of a golf ball you miserable bitch.

747 3) Conclusion: Therefore, (follow me here), killing Tiller is good.

You got some milk on your upper lip there, Killer. 

You're supposed to post as a "concerned Christian conservative" when you post that murdering an abortion doctor is a good thing, dumbass.  Somebody take this defective moby to the motor pool and get it fixed, wouldya?

Technically, can this get the banhammer dropped on palin steele?  It sure would be justified.

748

730 comments on this thread as the world's slowest typist starts his thing.  And I know I won't be the last because I am not Thread Killer Mike.  Now after reading all the back and forth, may I make an observation or two?

Why is it that the Dirty Harry movies are so popular?  Or the Death Wish movies, or more currently, Taken?   And they are predominately popular with the right , not the left, what with their hatred of all things gun related.  It's because an Anti-Hero is doing the right thing , even if it is outside the law.

How many times has the question been asked, "if you could go back in time and kill X (X being Hitler, Stalin, Napolean, Pol Pot, you get the idea), would you do it?  Most people say yes.

Seems to me that we are actually more concerned with the politics of the abortion issue, and whether or not this will be devestating to the pro-life cause, than we are concerned with someone actually offing this guy Tiller.

I, for one, am having a hard time getting upset by the passing of this man.  And I know we all  will be painted with this stain, but getting indignant here isn't going to change that.  The MSM will do what it will do.

749 746

How did Tiller view his grandkids? Escapees?

Did Tiller's kids ever let the grandkids stay over at "grandpa's" unsupervised? Did they count body parts when they came home to make sure ol' dad wasn't up to usual tricks?

750 Whoops, that was me.  I know palin steele is too stupid to read an IP hash.

751 ok, i didnt want to post anymore but...you know me..okay that's a complete lie

1) Principle: Preventing a murderer from killing innocents is good.
2) Fact: Killing OJ Simpson and every other person who has ever committed murder prevents them from committing further murders (which to pro-lifers is the worst murder, that of beings who can't defend themselves--okay I just made that up, but I'm allowed to do that)
3) Conclusion: Therefore, (follow me here), killing every single person who has ever committed murder and homicide is good.
4) Result: I'm allowed to avoid the actual argument and continue to attack you guys.

Yay!

752 1) Principle: Palin Steele is a self-righteous tool.

2) ?

3) Profit!

753 OneEyedJack,

I don't think it's awful to declare that you'll shed no tears for Tiller's death.  I think the whole reason Ace was tentative to post this was his fear that his commenters would hop up and down with glee like a fucking organ grinder's monkey celebrating this guy's killing and saying things like "if you are really against abortion, you should hope for all abortion providers to be killed."

I think he unintentionally did his readers a disservice with that, because so far, the only one who has advocated such a course is palin steele, a self-professed liberal.

That piece of shit should get the banhammer.

754

Not only do women who get abortions have significantly higher rates of depression and suicide, but so do abortionists.  They often come from really, crazily fucked up families (Dr. Nathanson was probably more the rule than the exception).

 

(Hey, since we're questioning the motives/commitment of pro-lifers, why not do so for all parties?)

755 @ logprof

I question the motives of baseball fans.  Fucking powdered douchestockings, the lot of them, with George Will as their pig god.

Too much?

756 Nice...2, count 'em, 2, overinght threads up and neither one allows comments.

757

palin, last chance.

Are you Hoosier Hoops?

758 I question the timing of questioning people's motives.

759

715 palin steele at May 31, 2009 10:22 PM (VDj74)

There is a man in the **** county jail, right now, being held on charges of murder. I am a Christian, and I am direly opposed to murder. Shall I whip up a mob, according to your "logic", to lynch him, to show how trenchantly morally opposed to him that I am? Do you advocate vigilantism?

Perhaps you'd have a better time prowling around, stalking people on your local area's sex-offender list, than taking the ass-beatings you take here at AoS. Just a suggestion.

760 One-eyed Jack - I will shed no tears either.  Neither will I jump up and down in glee.   IMO you're spot on with your comment - and Ace, trust your readers a bit; they seem to be mostly class acts.  

761

PS still no one has answered my question of why one would label abortion murder yet fear to celebrate one who commits and would continue to commit such 'murder'...I won't hold my breath

To me it's like the recent killing performed by the pharmacist.  The guy got another gun and came back to the robber and put 5 more shots in him after he was incapacitated.

Violent murder was the most extreme and counterproductive way of stopping George Tiller from performing abortions-if that was even the goal of the shooter.  It's vigilantyism and we cannot condone it despite perhaps understanding someone's mindset.  The shooter knew the chances he was taking so he should pay the price.

 

Maybe this will change people's minds re conceal carry in church.

762 Had to go over to LGF to see Charles' take on this and sure enough, he's carrying the Left's water and farming over the top comments from Conservative blogs.

I pretty much expected that, what I didn't expect was comments like this one:

"Charles, all I can say is your attitude and class are infectious.

You've influenced my way of thinking more than you will ever know and I owe you and the commenters here a big thanks in helping me see things from a more enlightened perspective and in trying to be more open minded.

and I know that I am not alone."

I hoped the guy was being ironic, but then several others joined in on the circle jerk. Holy crap, how embarrassing.

763 #762

Charles Johnson was jealous of Obama's personality cult, so he decided to get hisself one too.

764 Fred, many of the pregnancies ended are those severely complicated by disease, malformation, or maternal health problems. Many would not survive to term, let alone through infancy or to adulthood. I don't know why people seem to think late term abortions are done mainly to prevent parenthood, instead of mitigate damage from preganancy gone wrong.

Posted by: SarahW at May 31, 2009 01:49 PM (r/1UT)

WRONG! Tiller himself admitted that the vast majority of the abortions he committed did not fit into those categories. He simply believed a woman should have the "choice."

And by the way, are you one of those people who feels threatened by Sarah Palin because she DIDN'T kill her baby who has Down Syndrome? There's a word for that: EUGENICS.

If you people are really so big on "hope," why are you so ready to wring your hands in despair and flat-out give up on children who have special needs?
You should read Karen Santorum's book about their baby who died shortly after birth. You will think twice about saying we should kill before birth any babies who MIGHT not survive long afterward (you never know that for sure, anyway. Why not show some HOPE, and give LIFE the benefit of the doubt?)

765 "However profound our differences as Americans over difficult issues such as abortion they cannot be resolved by heinous acts of violence," Obama said, without the slightest indication that he saw the irony in his statement.

766

Turtle How did Tiller view his grandkids? Escapees?

Did Tiller's kids ever let the grandkids stay over at "grandpa's" unsupervised? Did they count body parts when they came home to make sure ol' dad wasn't up to usual tricks?

My wife does ultrasound, mammo and xray-she never scans family.

That aside I wonder what was in grandpa Tiller's sandbox?

767 Failtroll writes, "
1) Principle: Preventing a murderer from killing innocents is good.
2) Fact: Killing Tiller prevents Tiller from committing further abortions (which to pro-lifers is the worst murder, that of beings who can't defend themselves)
3) Conclusion: Therefore, (follow me here), killing Tiller is good."

I reply:
1) Evil may never be done so that good may come of it
2) Killing people is evil.
3) Killing people may never be done so that good may come of it

Further, you have applied a consequentialist argument here, you have judged the morality of an action by its consequences.  Morality of an action is determined by:
1) Object-- The specific action a person wills to do
2) Intention-- Why the person chooses to move their will towards a specific act
3) Form/Circumstances-- The circumstances (which never dictate the morality of the act itself).

If any one of these is evil, the whole action itself is an evil act.

Let's look at this act:  Scott kills George
1) Object-- The object is evil, since he is taking the life of a man who has not been found guilty of a crime nor in the direct commission of a deadly crime
2) Intention-- We can not know this person's intention to any reasonable degree.
3) Form/Circumstances-- Sunday morning in a Church.

The object, taking the life of another person unjustly, is evil.  Therefore the action is evil.

We are a nation of laws, not men, and no man may violate those laws nor judge other men outside the established legal order.  Might never makes right.


You, sir, have failed epicly.  Now can we get a banhammer on the failtroll?  Seriously, when the AOS community says you've crossed the line and need a banhammer, you need some serious help.

768 Tiller is like the Lernaean Hydra. Cut off one head and two grow in it's place. Only a change in social conscience will stop abortions. Killing Tiller isn't going to bring that about.

769

Palin_steele lies, but if everything palin_steele says is a lie then Who Knows must be telling the truth, but Who Knows cannot be telling the truth because everything palin_steele says is a lie... you lie, you tell the truth, you--Illogical! Illogical! Norman, coordinate.

Bar-ack! Barack Hussein Obama! Where have you been? What have you been up to? Nothing good, I'm sure--well, let me tell you, you lazy, good-for-nothing thing, thing, thing... Norman, coordinate.

770

I have a question for those who say it is a woman's right to "choose."  She can, absolutely against the father's wishes, even if that father is her husband, have an abortion any time she wants to.

So, if the father wants the child aborted, and she says, basically, "No, I am having this child and you are going to support it, even though I am never going to allow you to be a part of his life," why does he have to pay for the child's upbringing. 

It seems as if the pro choice crowd wants it to have their cake and eat it too.  Just seems wrong to me.  NOTE:  I do not believe in abortion, I am just presenting what I see as a classic wrong.

771 actually, no...no woman can abort a baby. a baby, by definition, is a human being. A fetus is not. but this is not the time nor place for that debate, which also is a fruitless debate. I'd be better off arguing against a devout hindu why eating cows isn't sacrilegious.

Posted by: palin steele at May 31, 2009 09:48 PM (VDj74)

And at what point does a fetus become a baby?  Does something magical happen if its head manages to completely pass through the birth canal with its brains unvacuumed, and then suddenly it becomes alive?  If a baby is a human being when it's born, then what was it five minutes before that?

772 Whatever your thoughts and beliefs on abortion, vigilantism, murder, gun control etc., I think we can all agree that Karma is a fucking bitch. No Tea for the Tillerman tonight!

773 You asked for it, you got it!

COCK!

774

I don't know if I qualify as a "moron", but I'll have a go at a response as a woman:

I think the killer of Tiller deserves to be tried and prosecuted in accordance with the law.  My personal feelings concerning the late doctor are of little circumstance; I do question his ethics a bit.

I consider myself pro-choice for pragmatic reasons (probably should be kept legal vis a vis the rare instance of life of the mother, rape, incest, and  people will get or attempt an abortion anyway if they want one badly enough, so might as well keep them in a doctor's office at least).  Nonetheless, late term abortions are usually quite unnecessary given modern technology and fetal screening (the life of the mother arguement has largely become a strawman for the left which many people unfortunately still accept as fact)-- and they disgust me, as does leaving a surviving baby to die, so yes, I would like to see more restrictions put on abortion (counseling the pros and cons to a woman? would that be such a bad thing? just lay out the evidence for an informed choice? no more loopholes for late term?). I believe in birth control -- which to me means acting responsibly when engaging in the right to the sexual act.  I also am quite disgusted with the feminist/leftist bullshit of "my personal body, my right to biological freedom, yada-yada" -- anything to freaking try to weasel out of the hard, cold facts: abortion is the end of a human life.  You're entitled to that choice in my world, but you'd better have the stones to tell the truth of what you're doing and live with it -- no pussy way out, no get out of moral jail free card.  And bytheby -- biological freedom is a fantasy, nobody gets away from their biology, nobody; so wish that arguement would just go away.

I believe that the pro-life movement should be allowed their platform -- it is supposed to be a free country after all -- they have a right to their opinions and to voice it freely, and their opinion is not without good merit.  If they can change laws, then more power to them -- the pro abortion movement is in dire need of a heavy counterbalance right now. I'm sure this will be used against them, and the 1st and 2nd Amends., and I'm not too happy about that at all.

Then again, I don't believe it will have the effect the pro abortion (they aren't at all about choice anymore, or most of them aren't -- Sanger would be pleased with them, so would Peter Singer) anyway, it will not have the effect they were hoping for completely -- I think I'm a pretty good example of why it won't.

How's that?

775 @323:
Also, I suspect you have no real understanding of what it means to be a Christian. For starters, it means condemning lawless murder without reservation. Anyone who does otherwise -- who fails to follow Christ's commandment to obey the law of the land by rendering unto Caesar that which is Caesar's and unto God that which is God's-- commits the betrayal of Judas all over again.

Posted by: Jeff B. at May 31, 2009 02:40 PM (5d0hS)

So you're saying Jesus would have advised Germans under the Third Reich to obey all the Nazi laws? You're saying Jesus is less just and less righteous than the people who convened the Nuremberg trials?

Give me a fucking break!

776 "365 The people from Tiller's church are calling him a good man. Are Lutherans non-judgemental to this extreme?"

Well, since I'm a Lutheran... There are Lutherans, and then there are Lutherans. ELCA (Evangellical Lutheran Church of America): Liberal. Tattooed pastors, women pastors, gay pastors, really relativistic BS. LCMS (Lutheran Church, Missouri Synod): That's "me": Center right, no women pastors, no gay pastors, solid Bible-based theology. LCWS (Wisconsin Synod): Super conservative. Some churches don't even allow women to cut their hair (Lot's of Nordic blondes... I've been thinking about joining them. LOL!

No LCMS or LCWS Lutheran Church I'm aware of would have tolerated Tiller in their congregation, therefore I'm virtually certain he must have been ELCA.

Hope this helps.

777 aborting healthy late term babies... either for convenience or organ harvest.
Posted by: V the K at May 31, 2009 02:40 PM (d2fuu)

Representatives of the American Medical Association testified before Congress that partial-birth abortion is "never"--repeat, NEVER--medically necessary. If someone absolutely insists on having a late-term abortion, there are other methods besides partial-birth. The big incentive for partial-birth is that everything except the brain and skull is delivered INTACT, unaltered, and fresh--all of which is needed for organ harvesting. The reason partial-birth abortion has caught on is because there is a booming black market in fetal organs. A group called Life Dynamics, Inc. did a big expose on this a few years ago. They actually managed to obtain copies of organ orders and price lists.

778

@774

You sound like Tammy Bruce.

Your thought is sound.

779 I'm all broken up over that guy's rights.

780 Shit man, I just got here, but I just wanted to say . . .

Jeff B., go fuck yourself you self righteous douche taste.

That is all.

781 #774

Yeah, exactly how is this going to affect opinion on abortion? That poor doctor got killed so I think abortion is moral now?

If they really want America digging into this case, they may not get the result they want.  Yeah, the killer may turn out to be a real nut, but the doctor's a first class creep.

782 You fucktard terrorists. You should all be rounded up, sent to Gitmo and let God sort you out.

783 You fucktard terrorists. You should all be rounded up, sent to Gitmo and let God sort you out.

Posted by: fedup at June 01, 2009 12:46 AM (i5+9T)

I guess it's a good thing Obama is closing it then.

784 Too many of us for Gitmo, fucktard. 

785 Maybe you'll never make it , Annie.

786 782 You fucktard terrorists. You should all be rounded up, sent to Gitmo and let God sort you out.

Posted by: fedup at June 01, 2009 12:46 AM (i5+9T)

--Please mini-troll, your kind is not worth our time.

787

782 fedup at June 01, 2009 12:46 AM (i5+9T)

Was that directed to us, the AoS commenters? Or just to the myriad assassins who have arbortionist doctors in their gunsights?

You know, those assassins are legion. That's why abortionists are killed on an almost daily basis in this country.

True story.

788 Squatch - LOL

789 I'm puzzled by people who think having a late-term abortion could ever benefit a woman's mental health! Do these people really not know what a late-term abortion involves? In the case of saline abortions and of prostaglandin abortions, labor is actually induced and a dead baby delivered. In partial-birth abortions, the cervix has to be dilated, which takes time, and the woman is sent to a nearby hotel to spend the night and come back the next day for the removal of the baby. Do you honestly believe women are not traumatized for life by this shit? It's a fucking nightmare. Anybody who tells you otherwise is the worst kind of liar. And, I might add, the worst kind of sexist as well, since they must think women have absolutely no minds or hearts. Only a cold-blooded MACHINE could make it through such procedures without being emotionally damaged.

There's a new movie out called "22 Weeks," a rendering of the TRUE story of a woman at an abortion clinic who delivered her late-term baby on the toilet in the clinic. When she SAW that little guy struggling for his life, she went crazy. The staff LOCKED HER IN the bathroom, would not let her out, she was pounding the door, pleading with them to call 911 so the baby could be saved. Clinic staff would not let her out (that's a crime called false imprisonment, but I don't know if anyone was ever brought to trial for it). She cried and shrieked and screamed. Her girlfriend who had come with her called 911. The staff TURNED the emergency responders away. Some time later, AFTER the little baby had finally expired, the staff called an ambulance--FOR THE WOMAN. So she could be taken to an emergency psychiatric ward. True story.

790 http://tinyurl.com/nkyqzs  Marcotte's reaction.  She really is vile.

791

George dedicated his life to providing women with high-quality health care despite frequent threats and violence.

What does it profit a man to gain the world but lose his soul?

792 "There's a new movie out called "22 Weeks," a rendering of the TRUE story of a woman at an abortion clinic who delivered her late-term baby on the toilet in the clinic. When she SAW that little guy struggling for his life, she went crazy. The staff LOCKED HER IN the bathroom, would not let her out, she was pounding the door, pleading with them to call 911 so the baby could be saved. Clinic staff would not let her out (that's a crime called false imprisonment, but I don't know if anyone was ever brought to trial for it). She cried and shrieked and screamed. Her girlfriend who had come with her called 911. The staff TURNED the emergency responders away. Some time later, AFTER the little baby had finally expired, the staff called an ambulance--FOR THE WOMAN. So she could be taken to an emergency psychiatric ward. True story."

I just watched the teaser trailer.  WOW.  This is horrific.   I've seldom heard anything so evil in all my life.

793

Oops, accidentally posted this on the ont:

Wesley J. Smith:

"Murder is Wrong: No Excuses in Killing of George Tiller"

http://tinyurl.com/n5ul23

794

Kathy from Kansas:

Well shit, as I tell my friends often, if you are cool with the idea of sucking a healthy baby from her own mother, pretty much anything goes after that.

795 With today's technology and available birth control, it should not be necessary for abortion to take place at all. There is the "day after pill" to take care of those times when people find themselves in the situation they did not expect.

Posted by: Kelly at May 31, 2009 07:00 PM (F4/Sj)

Sorry, Kelly, but the "day after pill" is abortifacient, as are all hormonal forms of birth control to one degree or another. If you read the manufacturer's information on the typical birth control pill, you will find that the Pill operates in at least 3 ways, only two of which are strictly conception-preventing. The Pill supposedly prevents ovulation--but in 2 to 10 percent of monthly cycles, it does NOT. Meaning, of course, that conception CAN take place. If it does, the third mechanism kicks in, which is the way the Pill alters the uterine lining so that the embryo that's been conceived CANNOT IMPLANT--so he or she dies, and then is passed out of the mother's body without her even knowing she was pregnant.

Norplant and Depo-Provera are the same, only more so. And then, IUDs, as you may know are COMPLETELY abortifacient--their one and only mechanism of operation is to prevent implantation of an already-conceived embryo. Spermicides are problematic because they're not all that effective, and pregnancies that DO occur when using spermicides are more likely to suffer birth defects. (You can read that warning right on the side of the box.)

Bottom line: Natural Family Planning (NFP) is the way to go. And to those of you who are behind the times, stuck back in the '50s somewhere, NFP is NOT the old rhythm method! Google NFP with "Creighton" or "Billings" and you can find out more. Also, the Couple to Couple League has many resources both online and in print.

It's a statistical fact that historically, whenever a country has normalized the widespread use of contraception, abortion rates have gone UP, not down!

796 I don't see how there can be a pregnancy considered an actual pregnancy prior to implantation.   Without implanting a fertilized embryo will never, ever have a chance to become a baby/be born, and something like 1/4 to 1/2 (estimates vary) of all fertilized eggs are passed naturally without ever implanting.   So I disagree that preventing implantation is abortifacient.   It's only a pregnancy after it implants.

797

Anniee451 re Marcotte's reaction

I like the posts by the women who say Dr Tiller gave his life for them.  I'm sure all the money he made had nothing to do with his public service.

798 That's just the beginning of all the nauseating bullshit we're going to have to hear about this "hero", too.   I'm gonna go barf now.

799 Response to Anniee in #792

Call me crazy, but if a woman doesn't want a fetus dead..... maybe, just maybe, don't go to a clinic which specializes in late term abortions?

Or maybe I missed some subtlety here.

I assume she still got billed for the baby killing.

As with having unsafe sex, maybe the time to exercise "choice" is before the event.

Yeah, I know, crazy talk!

800 596
Posted by: christmasghost at May 31, 2009 09:12 PM (aUut1)

BRAVO and megadittos!
I, for one, am not about to be shut up, intimidated, mischaracterized, censored or bullied by the lying, hypocritical thugs of the Left!

801 "And at what point does a fetus become a baby?  Does something magical happen if its head manages to completely pass through the birth canal with its brains unvacuumed, and then suddenly it becomes alive?  If a baby is a human being when it's born, then what was it five minutes before that?"

This, right here, is why I think pro-choicers are far more mystical, dogmatic and quasi-religious in their belief system than pro-lifers.  I don't even see how it's close.  The notion that something magical and profound happens during the baby's trip down the birth canal is far more ridiculous than the notion that something magical and profound happens at conception.  Hell, even as an agnostic it's hard not to be awed at what happens at conception. But the idea that something that is dead weight and can be killed on a whim suddenly becomes human by passing through the birth canal - ceasearan sections produces soulless zombies! - is just nuts.

Qwinn

802

Kathy

One of those pregnancy tester companies has come out with a fertility tester as well.

803 602
They said John Brown was a no-good crazy sonuvabitch too.
Posted by: jackfate at May 31, 2009 09:23 PM (HWTrU)

FWIW, did you know that on the second floor of the KANSAS state capitol (talk about irony and poetic resonance), there's a HUGE mural of John Brown by John Steuart Curry that is one of Kansas' prize landmarks. If I'm not mistaken, there was controversy about it back when Curry was painting it (1938-40). It's a dramatic image, to say the least. I have been to the Kansas capitol many times, and am always impressed by the painting. Take a look:

http://tinyurl.com/lyq7lx

804 Doc Holliday, I agree, but there is something profound that happens once a baby is born and a mother sees its struggles and hears it bawling.   Something that she doesn't know is really coming, not like that, until it comes.   You can't possibly justify them locking her in there like that, can you?   Turning away the ambulance?  I mean...that's madness.

I saw a story about some jungle Bush people once, and one young unmarried girl in the tribe went off into the woods to birth her bastard and left it covered in leaves and sticks to forget about.   Well the cries haunted her and drove her batshit for hours, so she finally went back, unburied the baby, and took it home to raise.   I'm just pointing out that sometimes it isn't until after the birth that the girl has any real feelings for the baby.   Even if she does, she's not aware of the whallop she'll take upon the birth.   It's like nothing I can describe, really.   It directly affects your hormones, your lizard brain thingie, all of it.   We don't know what kind of pressures the girl in the movie was under to abort the baby.  Of course it likely wouldn't have lived at 22 weeks either way, but what they did was still beyond the pale.

805

Qwinn

That doesn't matter to the pro-choicers-it's about saving women's lives and that's the only thing Tiller was about according to them.  Not adulation and noteriety and whole wads of cash.

806

in re: libs "declaring war" on pro-lifers....

Right now this is just people blowing off steam.  I would be very surprised if anything comes of it.  AFAIK, there is no conspiracy, there is just one guy who decided that it was more important to kill an adult human than to allow more babies to be killed by said adult human.

That being said, if they do declare "war," what exactly do they mean?  Are they going to start snuffing pro-life protesters? How is that any different? 

Which is worse: a pro-life nutjob murdering an abortion doctor, or a pro-choice nutjob killing an abortion protester? They are both wrong.

807 641
Im shocked to hear he was at church. I figured someone as evil as Tiller surely was an atheist. I fully realize that everyone sins, but how someone could reconcile his lifestyle with Christian faith is beyond comprehension.

Posted by: Matt at May 31, 2009 09:48 PM (b7QOu)

Hey, not only was he active in his "church," he even had a "chaplain" at his "clinic"---who "counseled" and "prayed" with the grieving parents, and even "baptized" the dead babies.

I also remember an interview with Tiller where he said something like, yeah he might go to hell, but even if he were sure he were going to hell, he'd still keep doing what he was doing. Let's hope he was just deliberately being provocative with the interviewer and that he didn't really feel that way.

Also, a dear friend of mine in Wichita has a friend who works at the alternative (pro-life) pregnancy service center next door to Tiller's building, and this friend said a few months ago that she thought Tiller was starting to crack--not spending as many hours at his job, looking unhappy/stressed--she was hopeful that maybe his conscience was finally starting to really bother him. So I guess we can hope that in that last split-second of his life, he recognized the face of Love and responded to His invitation.

808 "I also remember an interview with Tiller where he said something like, yeah he might go to hell, but even if he were sure he were going to hell, he'd still keep doing what he was doing. Let's hope he was just deliberately being provocative with the interviewer and that he didn't really feel that way."

What's the difference if he was serious or not?  He's burning in hell anyway.

809 "Also, a dear friend of mine in Wichita has a friend who works at the alternative (pro-life) pregnancy service center next door to Tiller's building, and this friend said a few months ago that she thought Tiller was starting to crack--not spending as many hours at his job, looking unhappy/stressed--she was hopeful that maybe his conscience was finally starting to really bother him. So I guess we can hope that in that last split-second of his life, he recognized the face of Love and responded to His invitation."

Ok I hadn't seen this.  Well...could be.  Stranger things have happened.  It would make perfect sense that it happened right before his time was truly up, wouldn't it?

One can hope.

810

Kathy

He thought that he was saving women.  That makes him a hero.  I wonder how many women George W saved...

811

810 I wonder how many women George W saved...

I dunno.  Let's go over to Afghanistan and Iraq and ask them.  Also, for every woman he "saved", he killed a different human being. You can't come close to balance out the scale if you kill one person for every person you save.

812 Posted by: Anniee451 at June 01, 2009 01:42 AM (3fUZm)

Annie, forget college and medical school, even HIGH SCHOOL biology textbooks will tell you that a new, distinct, genetically unique human individual's life begins at fertilization. From that point on, you've got a new person, genetically different from both parents. His or her life has begun, and implantation is just one stage in the process.

The fact that nature spontaneously miscarries a lot of pregnancies is completely irrelevant to whether human beings have any business playing God and DELIBERATELY, INTENTIONALLY killing another human being.

813 Yes, we conservatives believe in the rule of law, but is the rule of law EVERYTHING?

Is Tiller as bad as Bin Ladin? I don't know personally, but I don't think it's an outrageous argument to make.

What if it was Mengele, or Yezhov, or Beria, or the Ralph Finnes guy from Schindler's list? If you consider stabbing babies in the head and ripping out their brains to be as bad as gassing a Jew or shooting a Kulak execution style, the death of Tiller should enjoy no special reverence. Again, I don't know if I equate Tiller with those other scoundrels, but if someone else does, I don't think they are in any way insane or morally deficient. Certainly not to be smugly scorned.

So when Bin Ladin's battered corpse is finally on the front page of the NY Post, and everyone cheers and raises a toast, are we going to see all of the same kind of self-righteous moral posturing and sanctimonious condemnation?

814 Your fear in posting this was justified Ace. Look what has happened to your blog, a once reputable and respectable blog. It has turned into a kooky internet frat house. Its too bad really, you could have been a contender. Once again LGF has the high moral ground.

815 You know what?  I didn't kill him & I completely disagree with what he did for a profession.  And I can stand up to any leftist diatribe against people that have a similar religious/moral conviction as me.  Heck, bring it on, you only expose yourself for the self-centered hedonists that you are.  The principles of my faith are greater than I am & will endire despite anything I, or you do.

816 Your fear in posting this was justified Ace. Look what has happened to your blog, a once reputable and respectable blog. It has turned into a kooky internet frat house. Its too bad really, you could have been a contender. Once again LGF has the high moral ground.

Posted by: MrPaulRevere at June 01, 2009 03:41 AM (7amnw)

Why are they so many people who believe they can think for themselves?

817 Wow what a moral dissonance. First there's Aces sanctimonious bullshit to the effect that if you don't consider killing a guy who's occupation is crushing babies skulls as repulsive as a geniune murder of innocent being than you're sir worse than Hitler. "Murder enthusiasm" "unamerican" "praise the killers" oh my. If only those who believe that the baby inside woman's body minute ago is the same living thing that was brought out minute after enjoyed the same benefit of the doubt from conservative bloggers that lefties are prominently enjoing wouldn't it be fun.

Then to make matters worse I have to observe a lefty asshole making a most of this dissonance. And let me tell you: they will easily have an upper hand here. If you think fetus is innocent human being why would you denounce somebody who killed him provided a justice is what killer had in mind? You don't denouncing US troops do you. What's that, you say this killing is illegal. Well a killing of a person who raped and murdered a girl as a revenge by her father is illegal as well. Would you consider this morally wrong? And how a sanction by the state can make anything wrong or right to begin with. And so on.

I personally don't give a damn about someone who chooses deliberate murder of innocents as his occupation. However I'm not sure what his killers motive was. He might have been a religious fanatic and would have have murdered any perceived violator of whatever set of rules he consider divine.    

818

Alex D: (817)  A few things:

 

1. We denounce anyone who takes a life outside the bounds of God’s guiding principles found in the Bible. That includes fetuses as well as people who haven’t been convicted of a capital crime under the laws of the land.

 

2. “Well a killing of a person who raped and murdered a girl as a revenge by her father is illegal as well. Would you consider this morally wrong?” Yes, that’s called vigilantism, and it’s wrong.

 

3. Isn’t it great that we live in a country where people have the freedom to believe any kooky thing they want? And yet, if you believe you must kill other people to get to heaven (hello, Muslim extremists!), then you won’t be practicing your religion for very long. At least you may need to change your killing method from a gun to a shiv.

819 Remind me to cry, as I'll be busy with my new chant:

<blockquote><i>Oh Great Obama, I fart in your general direction!</i></blockquote>- <b><i><a href="http://pupista.blogspot.com">pupista (Mullah Medulla Oblongata)</a></i></b>

820 Remind me to cry, as I'll be busy with my new chant:

"Oh Great Obama, I fart in your general direction!"

- pupista
(Mullah Medulla Oblongata)
http://pupista.blogspot.com

821 Once again LGF has the high moral ground.


Of course they do because anyone who can think for themselves is long gone from that blog. Just for good measure Charles has one hand on the banstick and the other on the delete button so all opposing thought and dissenting opinion will get zapped down the memory hole.

It's easy to make your blog look pristine when your standing over it with rubber gloves, cleaning solution and a scrub brush 24/7.

Ace has chosen to give us the freedom to hash out our differences and get out our rants on a public forum and sometimes it isn't always pretty. Maybe if Scott Roeder had chosen to get all of his angst out on a forum such as this, he wouldn't have felt the need to take the law into his own hands.

Unlike a certain ponytailed liberal posing as a conservative blogmaster, Ace believes in freedom of speech and the diversity of opinion.

822

"Just to keep things in perspective, because I'm sure the media and the Left won't:  you can still count the total number of abortionists murdered in America on the fingers of two hands.

I think Tiller makes 8.

Not saying it's okay, but it's hardly a trend."

Just to 'keep perspective' further - number of pro-lifers killed by pro-abortionists - zero. Number of arsons and bombs at pro-life facilities - zero.

823 George dedicated his life to providing women with high-quality health care despite frequent threats and violence.

Um, what about those baby girls who's brains he sucked out?

How did that "high-quality health care" work out for them?

People like Marcotte are simply insane.

824 Number of arsons and bombs at pro-life facilities - zero.



But now if you change that to police stations or military recruiting facilities instead of pro-life facilities, those numbers drastically change. The left has no problem with cop killers like Billy Ayers and his wife Bernardine walking around free as birds, in fact most of em' consider them heroes.

Nice try at equivocation there.

825

I don't consider them heroes - they're killers plain and simple.

But I don't consider this guy a hero either. He killed an old man in a church. And I indict the movement because I hear a lot of 'well, it's a shame, but he's the enemy, so *wink wink* good job buddy.'

826 And no, I don't consider police stations as 'pro-life' facilities - they are law enforcement facilities. Military recruitment facilities aren't pro-life. Your try at eqiuvocation is laughable.

827 Your try at eqiuvocation is laughable.

I think it's very clear most of us deplore Roeder's actions. But forgive me if I'm not down on both knees shedding tears for Tiller either. I do however pray that God will show him the mercy that he denied the unborn.


Not saying you look at leftist extremists as heroes. However a great deal of folks on the left do and applaude their actions. So by your logic we can attribute the actions and misdeeds by a few on the left to the majority of the left as a whole ?

 Equivocation was wrong when I referred to you, I guess the words that better describe you is flaming hypocrite.

828 Just to 'keep perspective' further - number of pro-lifers killed by pro-abortionists - zero. Number of arsons and bombs at pro-life facilities - zero.

Quit beating me.

829

The movement aids and abets these psychos by its characterizations and extremist rhetoric - look at that hypocrite O'Reilly spouting his venom. Just like the extremist imams aid and abet the terrorists with theirs.

830 The movement aids and abets these psychos by its characterizations and extremist rhetoric - look at that hypocrite O'Reilly spouting his venom. Just like the extremist imams aid and abet the terrorists with theirs.



Right, and then you have the extremist communists on the left who applaude the actions of terrorist groups like Hamas and Hezbollah, commenters of websites like Kos and D.U. who openly call for the deaths of Bush and Cheney. Ant-semites on the left who call out for the death of Israel.

Sadly with your selective outrage, you don't seem to see those guys.

831 You assume too much

832

Personally, I think it was cowardly to shoot the guy at church, even though I understand the symbolism.  Better to have shot him at his job, like Paul Hill did in Florida, and the crime for which he was executed.  Shooting the good doctor at the clinic would have made the scene of the crime the scene of the crime, so to speak.  Much more symbolic, IMHO.

 

833 Domestic terrorism

834 So when Bin Ladin's battered corpse is finally on the front page of the NY Post, and everyone cheers and raises a toast, are we going to see all of the same kind of self-righteous moral posturing and sanctimonious condemnation?

OBL killed a bunch of "little Eichman's" who some claim deserved it, whereas Tiller's victims hadn't been alive long enough to have done crimes deserving of anything.

835

I would hardly call carrying out that many late term abortions "caring/saving women's health" -- a late term, or even mid-term, abortion is a very invasive and damaging procedure; there are serious risks to the woman's life and future reproductive health from them.  Any knowledgeable and ethical ob/gyn will tell you so (one of the reasons some ob/gyns will not perform them willy-nilly).  As for the mental health aspect, that is a ludicrous arguement -- due to hormonal changes and physical stress many women experience some rather profound bouts of depression during the later terms of pregnancy.  That's  an, ethical, call for counseling -- abortion is not a viable alternative to Prozac (bear with me, rhetorical swipe not scientific statement).

So that is a laughable attempt at turning Dr. Tiller into a martyr.

However, bring up God is also not the best arguement.  Let's just stick to the rule of law, which is something everyone can agree on -- God is a highly personal, philosophical, and metaphysical thing. 

So, according to the rule of law, the fellow that shot him should be tried and prosecuted.

As for the "domestic terrorist" label -- that would also apply to the other things, like some of the enviromentalist/animal rights folks' actions, or Code Pink, or some of NOW members...be careful oh ye lefties, lest the label you so desire to brand and thus persecute your opponents with be turned against you.

836

I'm a practicing Catholic, and I believe abortion is wrong.  I don't think it rises to the level of murder, and I don't think a medical procedure should so be classified.

Murder is wrong, period.  Remind me...does Kansas have capital punishment?  Because if they do it should be applied.

837 Domestic terrorism

Posted by: JEA at June 01, 2009 07:12 AM (WGbtD

Trying to redefine another term I see.  Changing the definition of marriage not good enough for you?

Terrorism is the indiscriminate killing of people to create terror.  This was anything but indiscriminate.

838

I've seen a lot of deminitions of terrorism, but none required "indiscriminate killing".  Most definitions include violence or threat of violence with intention to intimidate for political means.

So, depending on this guy's motives, it may actually be an act of terrorism. 

839 deminitions = definitions

840 > "In his memory, I've just donated $2,000.00 to PlannedParenthood.org."

Good on ya. Me, I've just donated $1,500,000.00 to those folks who print the duck stamps. I had it lying around and those duck stamps are pretty sweet.

841 614 Annie..."I'm ambivalent about the legality of abortion because I'm not sure I can make the argument that the unborn child has a right to occupy the mother's body if she says "No."
 Okay....here's a thought. What if you invited a guy over for dinner and then halfway through the meal decided that he was icky so you sucked his brains out.Do you really think anyone would side with your "choice"?
 No one has to get pregnant in this day and age. Abortion is used as a birth control method by morons.
So if you don't want anyone "occupying" your body then I suggest that you A. keep your knees together. or B. use contraception.
 It's called responsibility for cripes sake....       Unbelievably well said IMO!  It is true that abortion is used as birth control, of that there is no doubt.  My rotation in nursing school made that alarmingly clear. Contraception is 99% accurate in preventing pregnancy, there is a morning after pill for the rest. There should NEVER be a reason for an abortion today. As many people think we should see the torture at Abu Grab, I believe we should see an abortion also. It would end tomorrow. Enuf said!

842

I have my bike shorts on now.

843 OMG, I am sorry for the lousy formatting on my last posting.  My posting starts at "Unbelivably well said etc.  Don't want to steal your words. Mea Culpa!

844 Inviting a guest over for dinner and then sucking his brains out?

Is that really a BAD thing?

BRAINS! It's what's for dinner!

845

I don't know what I'm talking about, but I like to talk anyway.

I'm kind of like Joe Biden that way, but I make less sense.

846

yinzer at June 01, 2009 08:36 AM (/Mla1)

It is usually agreed upon that terroism involves violence against civilians to created terror and when that violence results in death or injury it is indiscriminate.

847 #837 Polynikes. Dude have you ever actually opened a dictionary? There is no requirement for the killing to be indiscriminate. In fact in normal cases of terrorism it is anything but as the idea is achieve political goals through violence or the threat of violence. I suppose the Iranian "students" who kidnapped the embassy staff weren't engaged in terrorism as they specifically targetted a US embassy. Mouth breathers such as yourself should just sit on the sidelines and lets the adults do the talking.

848 They said John Brown was a no-good crazy sonuvabitch too.

Since the only person John Brown killed was a freed black slave, they are right about that.

849 DrZin said :


"What if it was Mengele, or Yezhov, or Beria, or the Ralph Finnes guy from Schindler's list? If you consider stabbing babies in the head and ripping out their brains to be as bad as gassing a Jew or shooting a Kulak execution style, the death of Tiller should enjoy no special reverence. Again, I don't know if I equate Tiller with those other scoundrels, but if someone else does, I don't think they are in any way insane or morally deficient. Certainly not to be smugly scorned."


Joseph Mengele WAS an abortionist. That's what he did for a living after leaving Nazi Germany.  So the analogy is more appropriate than you may realize.

Let us Shed no tears for Mengele or Tiller.

850

What's with all the holier than thou "everyone is equal, killing is never justified" comments?  I thought I accidentally stepped into a lefty moonbat blog. 

I'm NOT saying Tiller's murder was justified.  But I'm not ashamed to say I won't shed a tear for him.  Just like I don't shed a tear for a career felon who gets gunned down for "unknown" reasons on a street corner.  I won't go out celebrating, but I won't pretend that this is some horrific crime, the likes of which we've never seen, just so I can prove to other people that I'm taking some kind of moral high ground.  Some deaths ARE more tragic than others.  I'll rate this one a "3" on the tragedy scale.  If it didn't happen when he was surrounded by friends, family, and innocent churchgoers, it would be a 2.

I'm pro-choice, always have been, but doctors like Tiller make me question that, or at least wonder if we need a better cut-off point where abortion is no longer legal. 

851

Random words

I write nonsensical sentence fragments

852 ”I don’t regret setting bombs killing abortion doctors,” Bill Ayers Scott Roeder said. ”I feel we didn’t do enough.”

Maybe Obama can get Scott Roeder to edit his next book from prison.

853 There's a very simple solution to all this. People strongly opposed to abortion should be required to register their names on a database and then any time a woman chooses for whatever reason to seek an abortion, one of the registered pro-lifers should be chosen at random to become the legal sole guardian of the child once it is born and to bear all the costs of raising the child and the mother's costs in continuing with the pregnancy.

854 Some NOW chick on tv- drooling at her opportunity to paint all pro lifers as murdering fanatics. You can tell she dosnt give a fuck about the guy killed. Just an opportuinity for political grandstanding. She loves this. As soon as she saw the news she probably got wetter than a lake. She gets off on it. Aha! See! I told you so! All these republican pro lifers are killers!

855 Response to Phil:

Hey, I've got a better idea ! How about the next time a woman who doesn't want children decides to have sex, she take precautions to prevent becoming pregnant, as opposed to killing the baby or forcing someone else to take care of it ?

This solution is MUCH simpler than YOUR idea. Cheaper Too ! 

856 There's a very simple solution to all this. People strongly opposed in favor of  abortion should be required to register their names on a database and then any time a woman chooses for whatever reason to seek an abortion, one of the registered pro-choicers pro lifers should be chosen at random to become the legal sole guardian of the child once it is born and to be aborted.

857

There's a very simple solution to all this. People strongly opposed to abortion should be required to register their names on a database and then any time a woman chooses for whatever reason to seek an abortion, one of the registered pro-lifers should be chosen at random to become the legal sole guardian of the child once it is born and to bear all the costs of raising the child and the mother's costs in continuing with the pregnancy.

You don't have to choose someone at random.  The waiting list to adopt a child is often years long.  There isn't a shortage of willing parents.  In fact, many people who want to adopt already pay the mother's medical costs.

Grim

858

Hey, I've got a better idea ! How about the next time a woman who doesn't want children decides to have sex, she take precautions to prevent becoming pregnant, as opposed to killing the baby or forcing someone else to take care of it ?

This solution is MUCH simpler than YOUR idea. Cheaper Too ! 

 

 

BRILLIANT!  Makes perfect sense to me.

859

836:

 

So if all people I dislike were strapped down to an operating table and the same procedure used on partially born babies were used, a knife inserted into the back of the skull and the brains sucked out, you'd have no objection to this medical procedure, would you?

 

By the way I am a very devoted Hindu but I understand what murder is.

 

860 I hate to say this but I feel nothing for the murdered abortionist.

I feel anger and hatred for the murderer who chose the wrong tactic which will, in the end, work against everything he probably believes in. He is a murdering asshole.

But for the dead abortionist, meh, nothing, even for his grieving family, nothing.

861

The failure rate for birht control is much higher than 1%, Kelly.   See www.contracept.org/risks.php.

 

862

Just to 'keep perspective' further--number of pro-lifers killed by pro-abortionists--zero. Number of arsons and bombs at pro-life facilities--zero.

That would be the violence that NO mainstream religious group that represents the overwhelming majority of Christians and others defends in any way, shape or form but that still get death threats, are assaulted on the protest-prayer lines, and do have their offices and churches vandalized. (Like at Montreal's Notre Dame de Grace cathedral a few years ago.)

As far as arson goes, not reading about it in the MSM isn't the best proof that it hasn't or doesn't happen even though killings haven't happened. But then the pro-deathers don't have to break the law, like they did in the '60s & '70s, or kill anyone because they won.

863

then any time a woman chooses for whatever reason to seek an abortion, one of the registered pro-lifers should be chosen at random to become the legal sole guardian of the child once it is born and to bear all the costs of raising the child and the mother's costs in continuing with the pregnancy.

That option already exists, Phil. It's called "adoption" and "choosing life" but the women don't want to use it, which is why there is a years-long waiting list to adopt a newborn. But maybe you'd like to volutneer to pay for abortions to show that you're willing to do the inverse of your plan to end abortion. (And it's something that you can do right now without needing government intervention to support your pro-abortion views.)

864 "The failure rate for birht control is much higher than 1%, Kelly.   See www.contracept.org/risks.php."

And the failure rate for sexual abstinence is?  As they used to say back in my youth, "if you can't do the time, don't do the crime." If you're not prepared to raise the results of your one-night stand to adulthood, it might be wise to reconsider carrying out your impetuous plan. 

865 #864, trfogey. What if you're a rape victim?

866 #863 andy, I already donate to Planned Parenthood and even get a tax deduction to boot. My problem with this crazy anti-abortion stuff is it's basically butting into other people's lives and it's self defeating. My father is a ex army doctor who amongst other things served in Vietnam. He never did pregnancy terminations in his practice until the early 1990's when there was a wave of clinic bombings and murder of doctors. He was so incensed that anyone would presume to infringe on the legal rights of his patients that he took out full page ads in our town's local papers announcing that from then on his practice would be offering terminations and if anyone didn't like his new policy they should feel free to tell him. He copped a lot of flack, but as he told me, he didn't serve his country in war to stand by whilst extremists attempt to subvert the nation's laws.

867 Abortion was an atrocity before this news happened.

It still is.

868 865 "trfogey. What if you're a rape victim?"

You willing to rewrite abortion law in this country so that abortion is only legal when accompanied by a criminal rape complaint, Phil?  Or is that just a sophistic smokescreen to make yourself feel better about supporting the murder of innocents because their parents couldn't control their animalistic urges long enough to get to the 24 hour pharmacy? 

869 kathy @807....."Hey, not only was he active in his "church," he even had a "chaplain" at his "clinic"---who "counseled" and "prayed" with the grieving parents, and even "baptized" the dead babies."
 Are you serious? Just how sick was this Tiller creep?So first they murder abort the baby non human, and then they pray for "it" and baptize "it"?
How can anyone baptize a "non