1 I said it last week...gonna say it again...

there damn well better be a plausible, believable, non-lame explanation for Starbuck.

Seriously.

Otherwise, this show lost a HELL of a lot of my respect. I have never seen such an amazing show take such a dive as BSG has this last half-season.

...well, there was Moonlighting.

2 If I gotta get my licks in , can I has the one in red ?

3 I await with trepidation.   This series had such good parts and such god-awful bad ones.

I think there are two many plot threads to tie up in just 2 hours.  My wife says they won't tie them up so they can come out with another movie.

I'd use that DVD for target practice.

4 Oh, and NCIS

5
I'm glad this shit is over.

6 Yeah! It's finally over. Now I just have 5 to 10 years to wait till they redo it. Which means they'll go back to the "roots" and actually make something like Battlestar Galatica. The only sucky part is it will be with actors that don't look old enough to drink yet.

7

If it sucks tonight, I may have to go on a rampage.

I'm at work til 5AM, so I'll be able to guage it's suck factor during the airing, and that'll be the deciding factor about whether I drive home and crawl into bed or find an overpass.

8 Intergalactic lap dances... With your wife along?

Who knew Caprica was so cool?

9 Lee Adams is proof most guys look way better with a conservative haircut.

10 If it sucks tonight, I may have to go on a rampage.

Trust me on this one , when given a choice to rampage , or not ...... always choose rampage .

11 And now some guy gets to screw his teacher...

Is this Fantasy Night in the Galaxy?

12 what is this flash back business?

13 It depresses me to think that mankind will progress to intergalactic spaceships but never invent a better container than a rusty 55 gallon metal drum.
The future is bleak, with matching tattoos.
Oh well, at least there's spandex.

14 Is this beginning a f*cking joke? Seriously, this is the f*cking final episode?

15

Well, I hope they do a creditable job ending it.

16 blowing chunks in an alley?

17 I'm watching it, but after watching "The Last Frakking Special" last night, my hopes dropped.  There was a point in which Ron Moore was saying that he was at home freaking out about the script for the last episode because of the plot, when it hit him, it wasn't about the plot it was about the characters.  And then it came to him how to wrap it up.  So I believe we'll get another 2 hours like the last- lot's a character interplay, and little resolution of the story. At least we'll have the first 2 great season and then some pretty decent episodes here and there afterwards.

18

Looks like the show had some hot babes, so maybe you all aren't TOTAL dweebs for being so devoted.

Still, partial dweebs. But in a good way.

19 On the other hand, Rocks, there WILL be tall Swedish blondes in high heels and things under see-thru short skirts...

20 How about the Obama show? I hear that if this weeks ratings are good he's going to ask for the 9 pm slot for every Tuesday.

21 wow, madam president was a couger before caprica went foom.

22

>How about the Obama show?

The way American politics and culture is headed, I wouldn't be surprised if one day the POTUS has his own weekly ½ hr show.

23 Ok. Blazing Saddles on AMC has the curse words bleeped out anyway so I am going to watch this crap. It had to get better from that horrendous pilot right?

24 Did you know....Kate Vernon (Ellen Tigh) is the daughter of John Vernon who played Dean Wormer in Animal House?

That's all I got.

25 Damn, women really look pretty darn old without makeup, don't they?

26 Too close for nukes or missles? You're shitting me right? What's left throw trash?

27 The guy in the tub has bigger boobs than the gals in the room...

28 ^{25 Damn, women really look pretty darn old without makeup, don't they? Posted by: CoolCzech}

It's a dog years thing.

Hey, as long as they're younger than I. Which ain't hard.

Don't say it.

29 cool eye patch.

30 Damn, Grace Parks is an Asian fox...

31 Is everybody a fucking admiral?

32 @26:Too close for nukes or missles? You're shitting me right? What's left throw trash?

I'll get Quark right on it.

33 Perfect place for a New Star trek trailer.

34 @22:I wouldn't be surprised if one day the POTUS has his own weekly ½ hr show.

A measly half hour? It is to laugh!

35

Damn, women really look pretty darn old without makeup, don't they?

Yup.

36 Did you know....Kate Vernon (Ellen Tigh) is the daughter of John Vernon who played Dean Wormer in Animal House?

Ah, Dean Wormer, RIP.  Fat, drunk, and stupid is no way to go through life, son.

37 It seems the producers, directors, and writers are as shameless as Obamateur.

38 Why is it the BSG 75?Shouldn't it be BS 75?Galactica isn't a ship type.Maybe it is a Battle Star Guided Missile??(ie like a US DDG or CG etc....)

39 IFC needs to do two things:

1. Go back to calling itself Kentucky Fried Chicken, and,
2. Just accept the fact that Original Recipe Fried Chicken is it's sole reason for existing. All their other products suck.

40 Ok. Blazing Saddles on AMC has the curse words bleeped out anyway so I am going to watch this crap.

I actually saw Blazing Saddles once as part of a TV syndication package called...(wait for it)...the African-American Heritage Network.  No lie.

41 @39: I meant, KFC.

42

Damn, women really look pretty darn old without makeup, don't they?

Yup.

What the HELL is Maria Shriver doing?  I'm going to have nightmares

43 The effects guys have no idea why a gun recoils, do they?

44 Hey it's Neo. Is this Matrix revolutions?

45 but they tore out all the launch tubes?

46

Hollowpoint, I can think of a number of possible images that might be at the other end of that link, and have no desire to click on it.

47 The effects guys have no idea why a gun recoils, do they?

If they can't make a whole damn ship move correctly, do you think they would get that right?

48 Cool looking battle sequence.

49 Helmets off! Thank God, my mousse wasn't holding.

50 Damn, don't piss Boomer off!

51 Yeah. Direct to DVD. Your buying guide code for "quality".

52 The black guy was right. Are the skinny ass metal things supposed to be Cylons?
I can see now why they didn't want to use nukes or missiles. Why waste them when they are made out of tin foil?

53 Sam/Neo will save us.

54 wao retro cylons

55

The new president of the colonies is a douchebag sleazy lawyer with no experience whatsoever.

Well, we know the future of the human race now.

56 douchebag sleazy lawyer

redundant.

57 Ok, there was the Red Dress Cylon and a well dressed
Baltar - what the hell was that?

58 I have to admit I love me some Dean Stockwell.

59 pair of eights

60 I'm still betting on a Rimmerworld ending.

61 A big X? thanks Doc.

62 Digging the retro-cylons. Too bad the story arc lately didn't allow for more battles like this.

63 I just down see how they're going to stretch getting Baltar, Six, and Hera into the black hole so they can wormholed into the past into another hour and a half, though.

64

61 I'm still betting on a Rimmerworld ending.

Now that's what I'm talkin' 'bout!  Ultimately, it all comes back to Red Dwarf.

65 I'm still betting on a Rimmerworld ending.

Well, Adama is more reliable than a garden strimmer.

66 Oh, speaking of Red Dwarf endings... "holding pattern," anyone?

(Lister left his son, himself, to be found on a pool table with an orobourus drawn on it.)

67 Man, I didn't know Barbara Hershey was on this show. She's looking lousy, and old.

68 Yeah, that one came to mind, too. I just think they'll be shot far enough in the past that they'll have to rebuild civilization from the raw materials they brought with them instead of waiting to be picked up in a cardboard box at  the bar.

69 Now that's what I'm talkin' 'bout!  Ultimately, it all comes back to Red Dwarf.

Well, there are three new episodes of RED DWARF coming to the UK on April 10th (called "Back to Earth").

70 Dean, don't hide behind the Cylons, they can't even protect themselves.

71 So Red Dwarf comes down to Galactica 1980?

72 lol...look at Baltar with the gun across his arm

73 that bore on Baltar's pistol - .32? .22?

74 Allah Pundit just had a shit after that speech.

75 I like pie, but not stopped CherryPy.

76 Should have let the Marine blow his brains out. Dean is setting them up.

77 So that's IT? Obama... Err, Baltar... says he sees angels, and the Cylons just call it quits and everyone lives happily ever after?

78 So, they have the old style Centurions, but where are those swords they used to carry?

79 Obama... Err, Baltar... says he sees angels, and the Cylons just call it quits and everyone lives happily ever after?

If Baltar is Obama, mankind is doomed.

80 Ah, well. Mankind was doomed anyway.

81

Hollowpoint, I can think of a number of possible images that might be at the other end of that link, and have no desire to click on it.

You know you want to- it's even SFW.  Well, unless you're a big Christina Applegate fan.

82 "But we can still be friends."

83 Uh, no.

84 I hate interrupted downloads.

85 Forever after didn't last very long...

86 Starbuck is an angel?

87 Ya know what I'm having a -really- hard time buying about all this?

Why the hell did Adama and so much of the rest of the fleet think Hera was so important as to go through all this anyway?  It's not like humans can't breed anymore, and I really can't see them all buying into the "if we can't breed with cylons we're screwed" mentality, so........ motive, not buying.

Qwinn

88 Offline....no internet. It's the end of the world.

89 Damage report? Galactica looks like a crushed soda can. Bets their at Earth?

90 DAMN, I called it!

91 You win, CoolCzech.

92 Hey! I know that planet! Earf, right?

93 Yes you did, CoolCzech; nice call.

So what happens when the commercials end?

94 Okay, are they supposed to land that flying shit can?

95 So, the Galactica is the B ark?

96 Starbuck ends up working at an Arby's?

(nice commercial tie-in)

97 Gaylor and fagtrek, great

98 holy fucking shit!

This does NOT belong on Ace of Spades!

It's a fucking sacrilege!

You don't need to watch this ghey shit just to see chicks... so stop it!

99 Will of be Earth today - or Earth at the Beginning, and Adama really IS Adam?

100 73, it is 5.7 mm.

101 Bit of time left. Adama needs a bath. They need to adopt leaves as a monetary system. Begin the defoliation campaign to control inflation. Then someone has to start pulling letters out of a scrabble bag.

102 42

103 Earth at the Beginning it is...

104 Glad I didn't pay to see Knowing when I could get the same ending here for free.

105 and one shit load of technology there Adama.

106 Oh my God this is like liberal heaven. What a piece of crap.

107 Oh, joy. The centurions evolve to become gray aliens? Occasionally dropping in to see what's going on?

Set the controls for the heart of the sun?

108 Starbuck goes with him?

109 "We need a clean slate" "We'll give our enemies the best shit and let them go. trust they won't come back." "We will go back to nature"

110 Good lord. I just realized that we do, in fact, have a crew member who really likes to take a bath. Golgafrinchan B Ark, it is.

111 Goodbye Neo.

112 At least the phones will be sanitized.

113 Yeah.  Technology sucks.  Let's go back and, like, live in the trees, dude.

Sigh.  The Greatest Generation failed us all, by not exterminating the '60's flower children before they could breed.

Qwinn

114 I told you I created this stuff.

115 Going back to nature.  Lifespan of 30 years.  Majority of women die in childbirth.  Majority of people die of illnesses that today are easily dealt with.  Only a liberal would think this shit is utopia.

116 "And there were even some who said the trees were a bad idea and we should have never left the ocean."

117 What's really funny is there are 38,000 people. Why the hell would they mate with a bunch of monkeys?

118 Hmmm sounds like it ended as stupidly as I thought it would when I quit watching in the second season.....

119 How many fucking Stargates are there?

120 ^{100 73, it is 5.7 mm.
Posted by: Putter}
SFX studio blank round?

121 So... the Cylons are the space goat?

122 Would 38,000 people REALLY vote to revert to the Stone Age, with no energy, a life expectancy of 20 of something? Preposterous, I say! That could never happen in real life!

What? Last November?

Ummm... nevermind!

123 There's no way I can compete with CoolCzech.

124 Gee the writers are just SO smart.Imagine it could just have been a military scifi show about humans on the run desperately trying to escape from a merciless enemy(plus hot chicks removing their clothes now and than).Instead we got politics and religion and ripped from the headlines topicality.Way to go writers!!!

125 What idiot would destroy your ship?

126 just blow off all that surplus scrap into the sun?

Cancel my rhumba lessons.

127 If what had happened to Callie had happened to Ellen, I'd have done the same frackin' thing? WTF??? Do the writers even remeber what happened to Ellen?

128 ^{117 What's really funny is there are 38,000 people. Why the hell would they mate with a bunch of monkeys?
Posted by: Rocks at March}
original sin of Lookin' for Strange

129 No one gives up strip clubs.

130 We are going to enslave these stupid visitors and make them do our work.

131 Man, my worst fear is that the series would end on some fucking 60s hippy bullshit.  And that's exactly what happened. 

Fuck Ronald Moore.

132 (laying in the grass)

adama- they look huminoid

tigh- but they don't have any language

adama- well that 3rd one in the line looks like his mumbling something

tigh- can you make it out?

adama- he's saying  "hope and change"

133 OK, there's enough time left for them to blame us for global warming.

134 *SPOILER*

And I can certainly see why Galen would go on a homicidal rage when finding out the fate of his cheating bitch of a wife that despised him for being a cylon and that he never really loved and only settled for.  Or maybe I can't, actually.

Qwinn

135 This thing was written by Obama's bowling team.

136

Hey man, its all cool.  We'll just gather natures bounty, uhh, have to bust our asses daylight to dark scratching in the frakkin mud for food.

 

Adama should have wasted Apollo. Called it a sacrfice. Isaac anyone?

137 It just proves the point here with this final. This show was nothing but a soap opera, there were never going anywhere. So, you get a dumb ass ending like this.
I didn't think it could be worse than the pilot. I was wrong. Perfect bookends.

138 They forgot about me.

139 @132  Thread winner!

140 134 winner!

141 Hey! She didn't burn the binoculars!

142 Oh, and mind you, they robbed us of the one single thing we could've looked forward to.... "The Leader will not reach their new home."  We didn't get to see her die in agony.  We wuz robbed!

143 Where are the community organizers?

144 Set the controls for the heart of the sun?

Ummagumma, Anachronda.

145 Where are the dinos?

146 Well, NEPA Dissident, they do seem to have decided to spend their time grooving in a cave with several species of furry animals...

147 I wonder if Starbuck with take to grinding maze?

148 ...and a pict?

149 Where's Adama going?

150 Ah. Adama is more equal than the others. He got to keep a raptor.

151

Is there an RIAA quota on sappy violin music?

152 Damn. I knew I should have bought the extended battery for this stupid thing...

153 Peace and love man. Woodstock.

154 Well, the end of the show wouldn't have been complete without showing us how Starbuck and Apollo were both skanky sluts even before Zack died.  Awesome.

Qwinn

155 And where the hell is Starbuck going?

156 #143 ""Where are the community organizers?""

they were the ones walking single file out in the distance

157 "Today is the first day of the rest of your life." Sigh. Now they just have to give a war and have nobody show up.

158 last year I had a life, now it's reduced to this BS - and THAT's over

159 Minimum humanly possible? What else is there asshole?
This sucks balls.

160 "I want to explore, I want to steal more lines from other, better shows....I want Kara to poof into thin air...."

161 Ooooh... she really WAS an angel!

162 What a self indulgent crap ending. Illogical, ill conceived and without meaning or purpose, other than to say "peace, love, dope man!"

163 "oops...something's broken..."

Yeah, your trust in your asshole brother and your slutty girlfriend. Don't worry, it'll get worse. Long after you're nuked, she'll be spouting hippie bullshit. Because today is the first day of the rest of your brother's life.

164 "I wanna explore."

You can't explore, Apollo.  You'll be too frackin' busy trying to survive 'cause YOU BURNED ALL YOUR FRACKIN' TECHNOLOGY!

Bloody hell.  This show started out great.  I thought everyone who hated Ron Moore were over reacting.  Well, I was wrong,  Ron Moore is a fucking hack after all.

165 Dear God, I thought this ending sucked an hour ago, and it's actually sucking more with every additional minute.

Qwinn

166 "It's not you, it's me. I have a prophecy to fulfill...."

167 Roslin's boy toy should have told her "you know, if you keep smoking those, you'll get cancer".

168 deys in afica!

169 The irony would be watching a couple of flamingos getting sucked into the engines and Adama pulling off a Hudson landing...

170 You guys need a cigarette?

171 More life than all the 12 colonies put together? See, Earth is special and we're fucking it up.

172 She's dead Adama, you're gonna starve.

173 Am I watching The Batchelor?

174 You spose he's going to bury her in Donner Pass, Rocks?

175 We have a whole ship of f*cking loners...humanity is doomed...

176

You can tell these people live in Southern California.  The real world has winter.  And you have to igure out how to stay warm.

And if you don't have winter, you have desert.  Not the phony desert with all of the water conveniently irrigated there. 

These Limousine Amish wouldn't last a day if you let them have everything except an indoor toilet.

177 This should have been called Battlestar Hoover.

178 Meh. It was doomed anyway.

179

More life than all the 12 colonies put together?

I guess they missed that MASSIVE SAHARA DESERT!

180 I would have ;liked it better if Adama had crashed while kissing her hand.

Pilots should keep their wits. Otherwise they'll have very short careers.

181 I hope the locals stick 'em all with their spears.

182 You know, Amish, if you take all the sand in the Sahara desert and spread it out, you'd have enough to cover all of northern Africa.

183 You spose he's going to bury her in Donner Pass, Rocks?

Hehe, yum yum. But no, they have so embraced death he's gonna go Necro.

184 Oh my god...what a fucking piece of shit ending...the show was awesome untill this final episode.

185 They'll just pull the lever to release the tiger, CT.

186 WTF? Now we are going to get to see if from the Cylon side? Hopefully their first action will be to kill the the writers.

Talk about milking the brand name.

187 Why are they marching? They had raptors to ferry them, for Christ's sake!

These writers should be shot.

188 Have these Galactic loons realized they'll need to eat soon?

Minor point, I know... But maybe something they should have thought of BEFORE they destroyed their technology?

189 If this show were real, their daughter would get gobbled up by a predator.

190 And how would they know how to do any of that shit?
They just destroyed everything and they come from a specialized society.

191 "That's it? That's all their is?"

Yeah, pretty farking much.

192 Oh my god...what a fucking piece of shit ending...the show was awesome untill this final episode.

No.  No, it really wasn't.  You just thought it was going to be.  But they really were totally fucking making it up as they went along, and this is what you get when that happens.

Qwinn

193 "Less eventful?"

Wait until they have to try and SURVIVE WITHOUT ADVANCED TECHNOLOGY!

What a bunch of gormless twits. And the characters, too ...

194

OMG!  The ending is the same as Little House!

195 Hey little Hera.  You get to struggle endlessly for the rest of your life and die in childbirth because your parents are FUCKING HIPPIES!

196 I kept thinking "George Lucas called, he wants his stormtroopers back", I mean come on, at least design a non-ripped Star Wars version of Cylons.

197 P.S., I hope Adama gets bit in the ass by a viper while he's siting on those rocks.

198 I will miss that red dress on the gorgeous blonde...

199 Mitochondrial eve! Haha! that's the cherry on top of this shit sundae!

200 Epic Suck!

201 @195: exactly. Who needs cylons? We've got liberals.

202 <em>Wait until they have to try and SURVIVE WITHOUT ADVANCED TECHNOLOGY!

What a bunch of gormless twits. And the characters, too ...</em>

Well, to listen to some people these days, we're all going to have to figure that out pretty soon, so why bitch about it?

203 I will miss that red dress on the gorgeous blonde...

the only decent scene in the whole thing. Her riding his ass in the pilot.
The rest? Straight to the heart of the Sun baby!

204 All along the watchtower....good God.

205 ^{198 I will miss that red dress on the gorgeous blonde...}
won't miss it off her

206 Is Carpica a tie in to this?

207 "Frackin' Hippies!"

HA!

208 How did Baltar survive 150,000 years? Sounds like an opening for a sequel.

209 Okay, that last bit with the guy driving over them and "Damn Hippies"?  That is the only thing that made the last two hours worthwhile.

Qwinn

210 Alright, enough with the hive mind. You complaining bitches try coming up with compelling sci-fi week after frakking week. It was a good show and I'm sorry to see it end. But you people are the same ones who were complaining that The Sopranos didn't give you a nice unambiguous ending. Decide what things meant for yourself, stop waiting for them to wrap it up and hand it to you.

211 Now that was awesome.  Not the episode, but the very end with a bunch of rednecks running over Moore and Eick and saying "Frakkin' hippies!"

212 What a god awful ending...way to ruin a great series....

213 ...and still.  What the hell was that Starbuck thing?

214

So...

Starbuck died on irradiated Earth and became an Angel, and has been one this entire season?

Or did I miss something?

215 ^{199 Mitochondrial eve! Haha! that's the cherry on top of this shit sundae! Posted by: Rocks}
Once black, never back...

216

So, how did Six and Baltar show up everywhere?

Nope, didn't tell us.

What's the deal with Starbuck?

Nope, didn't tell us.

Dirk Benedict was right.

217 I'm a Catholic. This is Lent. I skipped a meal today so I could have a third meal today of vodka shots while watching this tripe.

I hope Father Mike will forgive me when I confess that I hunted down and skinned alive the writers of this piece of shit.

218 What will I write about now?  Eve? God? Intelligent Design? Oh My!  Circuits are overloading.

219 I'm still confused...why the hell did Cavil eat a bullet. Honestly...doesn't make sense for someone who wants to live so damn bad.

220 Um, the problem isn't that the ending is ambiguous.  Or rather, that's what I -thought- the problem would be, but the suckness that was this is far far far beyond simply being an ambiguous piece of shit.  No.  This was completely unambiguous in its epic sucakge.

Qwinn

221 Wow...I don't even know what to say after that piece of shit....

222 Great series, loved every episode except one.  Can anyone guess what episode that was?

223 We wrote this ending.  We were looking for a more hopeful world.  There is not a human world, or a cylon world, there is just one world.

224

I feel like ripping my eyes out.  They went through ALL that to ditch the ships and technology, skip 150,000 years to today, and then say "It could happen again.  Oh, and He doesn't like being called God."  Was it a good ending?  Yeah, it ended things nicely, but it was a hippie-ending.  They didn't even take guns to hunt on earth!  What about predators?! 

 

You can FEEL the rush to end it in this.  FEEL the need to preach.  FEEL the want to run naked through the woods yelling "I'm free, I'm free!".  Then I can FEEL the bastard get eaten by a pack of wolves on the hunt.

225 "why the hell did Cavil eat a bullet"

Yeah, what was up with Cavil?  He goes and off's himself?  For what?

These writers aren't fit to suck the sweat off Starbuck's balls.  I mean the real Starbuck.

226 Well I for one am not shocked at this. I knew this show was a steaming pile of leftist bullshit the minute rolling stone gave it a thumbs up. I actually stopped seriously watching it after the occupation of new caprica when they paralled the Iraq war with the evil cylon (USA) occupiers, and the humans working for the occupiers in their cute ski masks (Iraqi guys) and the human suicide bombers (insurgents) blowing up the humans and cylons that the writers seemed to want the viewers to applaud and  say "oh maybe the iraq insurgents are right"

 What you were witnessing there was the bullshit done to our kids in these fucked up universities with this moral equivilence shit. I stopped watching the show after that when i realised it was leftist crap. Compared to babylon 5 and SG-1 which had a clear vision of good verses evil, it's garbage.

227 218 What will I write about now?  Eve? God? Intelligent Design? Oh My!  Circuits are overloading.

Posted by: Charles Johnson at March 20, 2009 10:13 PM (+sBB4)

This series is proof of evolution because no intelligence could have designed it.

228 Where did my WHOLE EARTH CATALOG go?

229

What would have been funny (tragic) was watching little Hera discover the King Cobra while walking along. Wait til the Chief freezes to death off the coast of Scotland or Scandia in a few months. Or Apollo loses his first encounter with the Abo's because he threw away his 9.

 

 

A real ending would have had them being saved by Zap Branigan. He could have taught the female cylons about his erotic disease, sexlexia.

230 Alright, enough with the hive mind. You complaining bitches try coming up with compelling sci-fi week after frakking week.

They never even attempted to do sci-fi. This was pure fucking day time soap opera from end to end, just with better productions values.

231 Good points Berserker.  The leftist culture in schools created this shit.  We can probably look forward to more of the same.

The interesting thing about Babylon 5 (the best Sci-Fi on TV) was that the show creator was an athiest, and yet he showed religious people in a positive light.  The Mimbari were very spiritual.  And the monks that lived on the station in the 2nd and 3rd season were shown as a source of wisdom, not ignorance like in most Sci-Fi today (particularly in the books published these days).

232 Can somebody tell Gabe not to bother?

233

Well, I was upset that I missed the first hour.  Now?  Not so much.  My six year old could have written a better ending.

234 You know as bad as this was it could be worse. You could have caught a matinee of  the film Knowing and then watched this.

235

Berserker above is right.

Look, real life is not usually black and white - but there is a line that the writers of this show crossed in Season 3 that was just... stupid. You can tell a compelling story with real villains and heroes with shades of grey, but this show just went way out on a limb. The stupidity with the Final Five Cylons (sorry, I always thought it was extremely dumb), the crazy Cavil/Final Five retconning bullshit, and now this hippie fest that makes pretty much zero sense. It's all stupid.

Yes, after the New Caprica failure I could understand how the survivors would be wary of setting up on a new planet again - but fuck me, with zero technology, if the original Cylons ever tracked them down they'd be fucked again.

And yes, the Cavil suicide made zero sense given his previous characterization. Then again, most of the characters didn't act "in character" in 4.5 anyways.

Oh well.

236 How did they get the natives stump broke? A "Mutiny on the Bounty" Tahiti world? Without sufficient technology to make them appear magicians, the locals would have the advantage.

237 Some people on this thread are fucking dumb.  Example:

"208 How did Baltar survive 150,000 years? Sounds like an opening for a sequel.

Posted by: Anachronda at March 20, 2009 10:11 PM"

If you can figure out that the Baltar and Six at the end in NY weren't the flesh and blood ones, you don't deserve to have an opinion.

Same goes for the morons who can't figure out Starbuck is an "angel".

238 He doesn't like being called God. He likes to be called Nessuno.

239 Well, I *am* a moron, Nessuno.

240 Sweet Humping Jesus, Whiny bitches off the port thread.

Queequeg, harpoon some of these tearstained fucks and put them out of my misery.

241 If you can figure out that the Baltar and Six at the end in NY weren't the flesh and blood ones, you don't deserve to have an opinion.

Or a crossover....

There can be only one....

242 Can we give up on the angels bullshit?
It's the glowing people from Star Wars. They went to the next level.
The "He's doesn;t like the name God" shit makes it pretty clear religious ideas are wrong here.

243 There goes the SciFi Channel.  Why watch it any longer?

Back to Mad Men and Breaking Bad.

244 It's  SyFy, get it straight.

245

Thank god that's over. The first hour was suprisingly good. The second and last, predictably horrible.

What gets me is this bone-headed idea of Apollo's. You want to break the cycle. You want to start over. WTF?

Moron, if you ditch all your technology you unlearn the lesson. In a few generations it'll be gone, and then eventually society will advance again, and repeat itself. If you don't want to repeat it.. try progressing PAST it. You can't just go all the way back to the beginning because your butthurt about it.

Do you want to break the cycle, or 'start over' and repeat it? It's a circle dude. You can't do both.

Apparently they didn't teach geometry in Caprica.

246 ^{238 He doesn't like being called God.}
Call me Daddy.

247 "He's doesn't like the name God"

Maybe it's the Devil.

248

So what's the deal with being an angel?  Angels don't know they're angels?  Angel's bodies show up on other planets?

One of the rules of sci fi is that you don't heap fantastical premises upon each other.

249

It's  SyFy, get it straight.

Burn in hell.

Seriously  though - no really. Seriously. Never talk again.

Seriously. No I mean it. You lose speaking privledges. Forever. Shhh.

250

I understand the ending.  I morn the loss of the best show to ever find its way to my television, but I understand the ending.   I will see you on the other side!

251 @ 196 "kept thinking "George Lucas called, he wants his stormtroopers back", I mean come on, at least design a non-ripped Star Wars version of Cylons."

Uh, dude, those were the original Cylon design from the original series and the earlier war in this BSG universe.

@ 206 "Is Carpica a tie in to this?"

Are you fricking kidding?

252 I have a great idea.  Let's give up our weapons and tools.  Hamas will love us then.  Peace will break out.

253

I understand the ending.

Oh, I understand the ending. It's not complicated. It's just predictably dumb.

254 God what a crappy ending to what could have been a great show. This series could have been great. Instead we get this!

255 ^{you don't heap fantastical premises upon each other.}

That's  women's work

256 Entropy that was a snark, same for you Nessuno.

257 It's just more damned whining.

258 256 comments for a Sci-Fi space show on a Friday night?

You.. people.... need to ... Get a Life!

259

Entropy that was a snark

Uh, Rocks, that was also snark.

No really though. Shut up forever.

Just kidding!

_{But seriously dude don't ever say that word again. Or else.}

Ah, I'm just pulling your leg.

_{But I'm not I mean it.}

Just joshing you dude.

_{As far as you know.}

260 yeah I think Babylon 5 was thee best Sci-fi in a long ass time as far as what it might really be like in the future. I have been a die hard sci-fi head my whole life, and I even noticed the leftist crap slowly creeping into sci-fi more than normal in the 1990s. I used to watch startrek TNG and go for weeks and not see 1 single fucking photon torpedo. then there was that bullshit about the warp 5 ban because somehow we were tearing apart space time with excessive warp travel, so the enterpirse could not exceed warp 5 without permission from starfleet.

ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING ME??????!!!!!!

this is sci-fi, it has big honking spaceships, phasers, chicks with tank top tities, planets going *FOOM* etcetc, and they turned the enterprise into a fucking floating UN. And what about the series enterprise. Oh we got to have some asshole airsupply sounding song in the fanfar with some asshole singing to an acoustic guitar. Theres no fucking singing in startrek. So along with that asshole opening tune you got a crew of whiners that didn't seem to want to be there in a ship that was just not quite fast enough, with weapons not quite powerful enough, with a captain paying head to his BLATENTLY leftist vulcan masters. So yeah, little by little this shit just creeps in.

Didn't happen with B5, didn;t happen with stargate or stargate atlantis.

261 Ok, so now that I've seen the whole series and sat here ruminating and reading dumb AoS commenters, I feel it's safe to say that the entire season went off the rails when , they showed the final 4, which if I recall was the last episode of season 3.  That works out because season 4 and 4.5 were irredeemably terrible.

According to the special they aired this week, the writers made that decision on who it was ad hoc and because it was "dangerous" and shocking.

You know what else was shocking?  Having Fonzi go to Hawaii, surf in a leather jacket, and jump a shark.

Oh well.  I'll always have the miniseries/pilot.  They can't take that away from me.

262 Really, honestly, the entertainment industry is AMAZING. Liek record-setting.

I mean, is there ANY idea they can't ass-rape to death?

Can we just get a box set of seasons 1 and 2 and pretend the rest was like the 2nd and 3rd Highlander movies?

Or can somebody reboot the series again and not make it LAME?

Or, for the love of God and all that is Holy, come up with an original idea?

No No No No!

263 I could have done better, but given the fucked up corner Ronald Moore and Company wrote themselves into over the last season and a half, he got out of it as elegantly as possible.

I was way too emotionally invested in this show since I saw the miniseries after OIF1 to hate it, no matter what it became. My wife's sitting here crying because Laura Roslin died, and I'm in tears because it's over.

264 So, um, what would have been a better ending?

265 Maybe we should be thanking TV for killing off shows early. Firefly didn't last a season, but had compelling characters and I have fond memories of that show.

Seasons 1 & 2 will be remembered for a while.

266

I feel it's safe to say that the entire season went off the rails when , they showed the final 4, which if I recall was the last episode of season 3.  That works out because season 4 and 4.5 were irredeemably terrible.

According to the special they aired this week, the writers made that decision on who it was ad hoc and because it was "dangerous" and shocking.

You know what else was shocking?  Having Fonzi go to Hawaii, surf in a leather jacket, and jump a shark.

You are correct, sir.

Me, I'm gonna go watch Gankutsuou, Count of Monte Cristo. Bet it winds up being better then BSG.

See, those jap animators have figgured out it actually works out better if you end a show before you run completely out of direction and atomize a dead horse.

Well... at least if you stay away from Drag-On Ball Z, Naruto, Bleach...

267

Maybe we should be thanking TV for killing off shows early. Firefly didn't last a season, but had compelling characters and I have fond memories of that show.

Honestly, yes!

It left before it wore out it's welcome.

As it stands, Firefly is my favorite sci-fi TV show EVER.

And as much as I wish there was more to watch, I do wonder, had Whedon been given 9 seasons to fuck around with, if it wouldn't have wound up being crap.

We'd be on like the 7th crew addition/replacement by now. Mal would be hooked up with River. And Inara would have a spin-off.

Hmm...Inara spin-off... might be worth it.

268 #264, exactly. What would be a good ending for everyone? And not some snarky bullshit ending...

269 well a funnier ending would be those natives walking with the spears walk up to a mountain and seeing obama  with a teleprompter talking to a bunch of grazing animals. Sheep, yeah sheep would be good.

270 So... if we can't think of a good ending, that means this one didn't suck?

271 This is just a perfect example of what sci-fi has become, dealing with the past.
The appeal of sci-fi is that it moves beyond this bullshit. It's the future. But yet most of the so called scifi today is fixing something. Why would those people even care?
It's like the liberals endlessly kvetching about slavery. What is this ending for BG except attempting to elimate mankind's fuckup for having evolved of all things.
I'm surprised the whole crew didn't land on new "Earth", walk up to the hominids, say  "Sorry" and blow their brains out. It's pathetic.

Scifi is about the next horizon, not looking backwards.

272 How about this for a good ending? One side beats the living shit out of the other and goes on to a glorious future. One with even greater new things. Digging a hole in the past and crawling into it? That's not an ending, it's a grave.

273 So, um, what would have been a better ending?

#1. Dark and destructive. Fleet splits, due to attack, inner fighting, whatever. Humanity spreads out among the stars and dies, slowly. Ship by ship on the final episode, we see each one meet it's demise. Starvation, In-Fighting, Accidents, Disease. All but one die off... That one finds a home and is waiting for us.

#2. Even more dark and destructive. Everyone, including Cylons die. Thought that was going to happen when the nukes launched. A few million years from now a humanoid species finds the remains and the entire BSG series is a series of stories from the recovered logs.

#3. Happy ending. Humanity beats the shit out of the Cylons. Somehow the Cylons get sucked into the Black Hole. Galactica screws up the gravitational balance of the rock and causes it to spiral in. All of the main characters get sucked in saving humanity.

#4. ????. Hera gets everyone to stop, tighten their belts and "Hope for Change". Humanity and Cylons reach and immediate truce and airlock her ass. They all share a laugh and beer and agree the look on her face as she hit hard vacuum was PRICELESS. Then they pick up their guns and take options #1, 2, or 3.

274

I still think it would have been a lot more fun if they had found the way to Earth after being found by James T. Kirk. 

Either that one or else they finally meet the "God" who's been pulling all of their strings and it's William Shatner.

275 "So, um, what would have been a better ending?"

Well, as SGT Dan said, they wrote themselves into a corner.  But that's why I'm not as pissed as a lot of other people here.  I expected it to be terrible because they had nowhere to go.

But, to adress just some of the obvious points,

1--Not add new mythology/fantasy elements into the last season, ie don't add angels which doesn't fit with the setup they gave it.  Basically, it seems they didn't plan the series to have angels, but added it in the last season to explain starbuck and Baltar's visions.

2--Don't betray the premise of the show.  By splitting up on earth and abandoning technology, they are effectively giving up on the Colonies/civilization that they had fought so hard to preserve.  Yes, they saved "humanity", but that is gutted because they are basically surrendering humanity, not to the Cylons, but to the new race of people on new earth.

2b--Don't undercut the emotional payoff.  Why the fuck did nearly all the main characters go off into little groups or disappear? If the Colonists were going to influence earth culture, it would at least nice if some of those influences would be had by people we had emotionally invested in for 5 years.  Instead, they go into corners and die, leading the world to be shaped by extras. 

3--Don't have the protagonists make stupid decisions.  Giving up all technology is dumb.  They need warm weather gear; they need weapons.  Were they so dumb that they thought lack of technology would mean peace?

4---What's the necessity of a the Cylon-Human union?  If there was any theme to the final season, it was that humans and cylons were weaker apart and that ending the cycle of violence would be to join together peacefully.  But all we get is a little imbreeding.   (And, logically, it can only be a little or just maybe Hera, since all the other Cylons would grow old and die before Hera could spread her mitochondrial bullshit.)  They don't creat a new world that is unified; everyone just dies off after having taught the natives how to speak and farm.  Yay.

I could go on, but whatever.

276 Either that one or else they finally meet the "God" who's been pulling all of their strings and it's William Shatner

Denny Crane!

277 Robotech battle music and Babylon5 SFX

278 The perfect ending would have been this:

Starbuck, Adama et al land on Earth and get infected with a virus which they have no ability to fight off.

Similarly, they infect the primitive residents of earth with a foreign plague those residents have no ability to fight off.

Everyone ends up dead, and global warming is averted forever!!!

279 Oh, and it's not SyFy, it's Skiffy. 

280 yeah sci-fi is at it's best when it sticks to sci-fi, and not sticking all the frigging social messages in. Stargate went 10 frigging years because it was one episode of asskicking after another. There was an objective and they kept to it, alot of times it was in the background. At first it was ok defeat the system lords, so while that quest was in mind there was constant exploring of planet after planet with different shit happening and the basic quest wasn't always in your face. Star trek voyager was a good example when the quest is pushed to much in your face. Week after week it was waaah we gotta get home, are we there yet, waaaah I wanna go home, oh why aren't we home yet waaaaah waaaaaah. It got to be draining. They could have done alot more exploring on their way home, focused a little less on the crew going waaaaahh, maybe have a few subtle but running background storylines etc etc. All sci-fi really needs is great characters, a storyline NOT resembling everyday life, heavy doses of grade A ass kicking, and killer technology NOT held back by the fucking EPA.

281 You know what else would have made this series better, right from the pilot?
Make the aliens, alien.
What does a Cylon do in interacting with a human that is in any way alien from humans?

282 The battle against the colony was well done Hera saved and I am thinking hey this is going to be alright.  Then bingo they have reverted to nature and are the half cylone girl is the missing link or some such nonesense.  This is going to require painkillers to get over.  

283 272
Digging a hole in the past and crawling into it? That's not an ending, it's a grave.

Brilliant. Now tell that to the commies running the government. The only way they can figure out how to equalize people is to kill them slowly. You gotta have goals!

284 They should have just gone for broke and called her the "midichlorian Eve".

285 Look, let's focus on the important things here - namely Tricia Helfer's tits.

286 I personally have no problems with this ending. I am way too invested in this show to be anything other than horribly sad at its passing. I loved the first half of the episode with the guns and death and explosions and other such what have you. I even shed a little tear when Laura Roslyn died. I also loved the ending with Six and Baltar though the like 20 seconds of robot footage was a little lame i think they should have just left it with Hendrix playing on the radio.

287 "This is going to require painkillers to get over."

Tequila works too.

288

>So, um, what would have been a better ending?

Jerry Elaine George and Kramer are beaten to death by an angry mob.

289 Well I think a cool ending, at least the very end anyway,  would have been them landing the frigging spaceships to at least have SOME kind of technology and shelter, and setting up a single settlement. Have adama give a speech to the masses saying they will build a new civilization and they will eventually send out patrols to explore this new world continent by continent. Basically it would have given a more glorious end to their quest which mostly was finding the fucking earth, and not a retard version of the wilderness family. It would have said "we have arrived", and not this ":well what now, wanna kick some leaves?"

290 Maybe Dirk Benedict should have woken up in bed with Tricia Helfer and they find out the whole thing is just a dream.

291 "Jerry Elaine George and Kramer are beaten to death by an angry mob."

Wasn't Seinfeld cancelled?

292 This felt like reading the unabomber's manifesto while attending a cult meeting.  Ugh...

293 288
>So, um, what would have been a better ending?

Dunno.

But it would probably involve several naked female cylons.

294 This show was certainly hit and miss, inconsistent, but the characterization, plot, acting and writing are above and beyond anything on tv.  I was doubting after the last few episodes, but I thought they pulled it together pretty well tonight.

All you folks who think science fiction should stick to blue rubber suits and bad cgi should take a long waltz out a short airlock; have fun with buffy, stargate and bad Saturday Syfy channel movies.  The very reason this show is so engaging is actual stories, interesting heros AND villians; something so very lacking in the remnants of the 90's era Trek wannabies. 

295 As for the bloke being the one you won't hit---keep in mind, not all of your readers and commentators are male, and the males may not necessarily be straight. Jamie Bamber reminds me of a guy I went to high school with, but Bamber has hair. Mmmmmmmmmmm

296 Kinda surprised nobody mentioned Moore including himself in a cameo at the very end, reading the newspaper. That should tell you everything.

297 Francis,
    I'm glad people like this show. Enjoy it. But the only thing sci-fi about it was they were in space and the future, supposedly. It's bad for sci-fi, it's what killed westerns. Genres aren't just elements you plug in and out to fill the background, they need to be integral to the story. BG could have been set on a fleet of boats with a battle among races and only mininal changes would have been needed.

298 Better ending?
I was hoping Adama would die, and then he would wake up in one of those pools like the skin jobs do.  Then, come to find out, they are all skin jobs.

299

Whatever the case, the ending they gave us was lame.
Whats up with the final five?  Why are the regular sylons afraid of the final five?  Why did that whore disappear?  Why did the one angry sylon off himself in the last minute?  Who is this "god" you speak of?  What is this "god's" plan?  WTF dude, that sucked.

Oh, i got more.  This is some lame crap.

Oh, and the part about Battlestar mirroring real life, I'm OK with that.  Shows that make me think or make me uncomfortable, I'm OK with.  But, this ending sucked ass, and has been done before.  Hitchhikers guide to the galaxy?  same BS, but with sylons.  Bullshit i say.

Don't think I'm done yet

Why do the toasters care about anything?  Why cant the other three of the final five not remember much of the past?  If the fat one knew that he was married to the Iranian lady, why would he then kill her?  who blocked their memories, and why don't they care to get them back? hell, i would wanna know.

this is too much BS to cover here.  See my PhD thesis entitled
Dallas, Battlestar, and Lost: why series finales suck so bad; noone really knows.

300 Followed the final ep with some of the episodes of HBO's ROME on DVD, Ancient guys fucking and killing each other---there's some good times!

301 Ok, this was lame.  Im not wathing tv anymore.

302 Moore's leftist indoctrination and desire to spew pseudo-ideological, hippie O'Bullshit left him with so little imagination that he never came up with the most elegant ending the show could have had.

To wit, the survivors - KEEPing the technology they had at their disposal - concentrated themselves on a huge, deserted island off the coast of Africa so as to protect themselves and future generations, and (if the liberal gods had to be appeased) to keep from upsetting the Earth's delicate ecological 'balance'.

Atlantis, duh.

Perfect setup for a (real) spinoff and makes far more sense than spending 4 years trying to keep from being murdered, only to send your only chance for further survival rocketing into the Sun.

What a fracking tool.

303 yes that spin off idea is good, thats what I was getting at when I said a single settlement and future explorations of the continents. That left the door open to a lot of different choices of spin offs if they wanted. That atlantis thing is a cool idea.

304

no way, it was lame.  Leftist or not, it was still lame!  Please!  Even uber liberal dope smoking Timmothy Leary could write more interesting BS than this steaming pile.  Another one im thinking of that ended like this was Dune.  What the hell!  How many times do advanced civilizations have to find Earth?  According to sci fi land every time I turn a spade of dirt I should dig up a cylon helmet, rocket booster, quantum drive or FTL drive.  Man!  How many times do you have to write the same damn ending before you give up?

Ok, im really done this time.

305 #302, Moore was a semester away from a commission in the Marines, only he fucked up his knee his senior year just like I did. I wouldn't call him a typical lefty douchebag. Did he have a few weird concepts and fuck with our us versus them perceptions? Yeah. But you know what? Even if I would have done it differently, I don't work for a TV production company so my opinion doesn't count for much. It was still the best show on TV and I still cried at the end.

306

A few points in defense of the finale and series in general:

1. I don't really think Moore and Co. are telling us all to chuck our technology out the window, and besides, morals and messages have always been at the heart of good science fiction. Apparently you morons have never read Ray Bradbury or Mary Shelley. Jesus, even the original Star Trek stuck a moral in there for those who weren't totally preoccupied with green boobage.

2. The wole damn show was a cautionary tale about the dangers of technology from the very beginning. Has everyone forgotten Adama's speech at the beginning of the miniseries, or his comments to Roslyn on the results of humanity's quest for a faster computer? It makes perfect sense that in the end the last 30,000 or so humans beings in existence might, after seeing countless billions of their kind destroyed by the fruits of their technological pursuits, decide that it's not worth the bother. Call it skewed perspective or whatever you like, just saying it's the sort of thing that's bound to alter one's outlook.

3. Yeah, so the writers clearly lost their mojo somewhere around season 3, but they were, I think, trying to avoid getting screwed the way Farscape did and were attempting to make the show palatable to a wider audience. Ultimately that choice backfired and left us with useless crap for episodes like "The Woman King" and whatever that piece of shit union-busting episode on the tyllium refinery ship was called. They've struggled ever since to recover from some serious blunders made during the last season and I don't think their efforts are as awful as most of the commenters on this post.

4. The 'Inner Six' and 'Inner Baltar' are angels. Big deal, is there a law that says science fiction and spirituality can't mix? Further, Kara Thrace was not an angel, rather she was more like Gandalf in Lord of the Rings; she was allowed to return to fulfill a divine purpose.

5. The show had quite possibly the best firearms consulting in the history of television. I was always impressed with their choice of small arms.

Alright, now tear me a new one you nattering goddamned nabobs of negativism.

307 Dan, irrespective of anything in his past, Moore wrote the ending of this series like a typical lefty douchebag. And the fact that it was (some of) the best TV has to offer (I used to agree with this) isn't really saying much at all. B5 was far, far better - even with JMS' forced rewrite(s) due to the personnel shakeups. Tonight's episode of Dollhouse was better than this "finale", IMHO.

308 j foster, I think you have valid points.  I'm just saying that this ending is very tired.  I have seen it before, lots of times.  Im tired of seeing it.  As Obama says, its time for change.

309 Yeah, it was kind of disappointing, but Mary McDonnell was smoking hot in her flashbacks tonight.  Damn!

310 Babylon 5 was boring.

BSG was pretty good sometimes, but it was far from great TV.  It was never 'the best show on TV' as the self serving actors insisted over and over and over and over.

Fuck them.  The show ended terribly, I guess.  I didn't even watch the ending because the show was so fucking boring.

I'm not trolling.  Plenty of science fiction shows have conveyed real drama without veering off like this.

311 Stupid stupid sockpuppets...

312 Actually, Kensington, that accidental sockpuppet was pretty funny.

313 Okay.....someone who hated the ending please tell me how YOU would have ended it? I might be dense and dull, but I thought it was pretty dull.

314 I would have gone with a sudden blackout.

315 I would have had Adama fellate Cavil and turn over some of his more extremist crew (like Starbuck and Helo, say) in order to appeal to the moderate viewers.

316 I would have had Adama wake up in bed with Crocket and Tubbs.

317 J Foster,
  Good points.

1-2 Right but here they are tired, old ideas. Tired old ideas are fine, if you at least tell them in a new way. That wasn't done here and I certainly don't believe the writers had it in mind when the show was created. It was just a crutch they fell back on in the end. A whole civilisation chucking technology just seems ridiculous.

3 is totally subjective.

4. I really don't think they are supposed to be what angels are in religious terms but I don't have a problem with the concept. Here it's a tack on.

5. Why do they even still have small arms? Why would Cylons not build themselves to resist the most basic arms? They might as well have used crossbows. They would have gone through that tin. They are an insult to toasters. toasters are made better. Humans progressed to spaceships and laser cannons but they are still plinking around? Why is it here? It's cheap. Cheap is fine if you at least attempt to do something with it.

318 I would have focused it more on Laura Roslin's hillbilly incompetence and referred to all of her supporters as cultists.

319 1.)  I heard some other-wordly music used from some other sci-fi venues (a bit of the ALIEN theme in there ... the Resurrection one I believe)     2.)  OK, I may not have been any more religious about watching than I am about attending Sunday morning Mass, but correct me if I'm wrong ... Galen is a cylon and his wife (Kali?) was human ... and they had a baby ... so he's pretty much another Hara ... so why wasn't he as important as she was? (or did he die and I missed it?)     3.)  And you guys talking "Red Dwarf" ... yeah, I wanna party with yunz guys

320 I would have blamed everything on Bush.

321 Cutting to a shot of modern day archaeologists digging up a piece of gear brought to earth by the BSG crew and scratching their heads would have been cool.

322 I would have tiptoed into Adama's room while he lie sleeping and scream, "Father!  I'm going to kill you!"

323 After reading this I recommend that no one drives on 395 in Connecticut.

324 Okay.....someone who hated the ending please tell me how YOU would have ended it? I might be dense and dull, but I thought it was pretty dull.

Me? Based on what you had to go with. Chuck everything after the battle, which sucked too. Humans come to the realize they made this mess, the Cylons, and they have to make the hard choice to end it. All the Cylons go, all. Including the little hybrid. Humans find and settle on new earth. There is an internal struggle over the last Cylon, Hera.
The humans battle over her and in the end she is killed despite the efforts of  the people who are for letting her live. The humans make a pack not to build advanced AIs.With her death something is awakened which is angered by her destruction. Somehow it is aware of it. Is it God? Another "human" civilization?
The 'angels" know. The new Earthers will eventually find out. Yes, round the circle we go again but at least it's with new players. Some of the Earthers break the pack and build robots to battle the new threat. Who do the robots side with when they reach signifanct numbers?

A new series, with new people.

What do you have? Crappy end and a retread in Crapica.
Why? Because it's about the soap opera. Not about the future, not about progress (good or evil) and not about science, fictional or real. The"story" is really unimportant here, the characters are what matter.

Don't get me wrong, from a business perspective soap opera sells, especially on TV. It's the smart move, but it doesn't make it good.

325 J Foster, some responses, as a semi-"nabob of negativism"

1--I personally have no problem with Sci Fi being a morality tale.  In fact, that's the point of Sci Fi.  So, I agree, the people here who a railing against that are off base, even if the tale is somewhat liberal.  I do think that the "he doesn't like being called God" thing was really gratuitous though.

2--Being anti-tech is ok, but they went more than anti-tech; they went full on Luddite. If the writers had the foresite to set us up for this, for instance having Baltar's cult be anti-tech, it would have made more sense.  But even in the context of their holocaust, going from space travelers to cavemen overnight is too implausable to swallow.  There is a middle ground they should have explored.

3--"their efforts are as awful as most of the commenters on this post" is not a ringing endorsement.  It's obviously a subjective issue, though.  Still, I think the larger issue is that the writers seemed to think only season by season and the character and plot arcs seem totally skewed and disjointed when viewed across the entire series.  The finale did little to resolve this.

4--Again, I think anyone who objects to mixing spirituality with sci fi is off base.  In fact, the first couple of seasons were filled with it, but the writers mostly dropped it later, only to pick it up again in the last couple of episodes.  That is just bad writing.   In the final few episodes, especially the finale, the writers basically used the angels as a deus ex machina to resolve all of their holes and questions quickly.  Deus ex machina is a mark of a bad plot, pure and simple.  As an aside, I disagree that Starbuck wasn't an angel.  For instance, why was she given the FTL coordinates via song as a child if she wasn't already special, or why was she transported to earth and reborne? Your theory might be right, but it's far from clear.

5--The guns were awesome, I agree.  One nitpick though....early on in the series the mentioned that the regular rounds didn't work against the Cylons and they were basically out of the explosive rounds that had effect.  But the quickly forgot that limitation and seemed to have little problem dropping Cylons with small arms later on.  For instance, contrast the effectiveness of their weapons in the finale with the episode where the ship was boarded by a single party from a heavy raider.  Night and day.

326

These bloggers at Ace HQ are all on loan courtesy of the shemales at Wonkette. Pathetic.

327 So the final end of all this, after fighting for their lives for several years across the galaxy, is the colonialists commit mass suicide by wandering off into the wilderness to explore a new and bountiful world until they die alone of exposure and starvation. That is just fracked up stupid.

Hell, better to have them be a simplified dirty hut version of the mythical city of Atlantis on an abandoned island in the Atlantic where they can barely hang on to their technology, but are still later destroyed via some calamity.

328 I knew they would frak up the ending if they ever landed on Earth, unless they did one simple thing. Show Earth out the "front window" of Galactica and roll the credits right then and there.

329 Why did you morons waste all that time watching this crap?

It was perfectly clear that the series was falling backwards into a liberal black hole when traitorboy Helo disobeyed a presidential order, sabotaged his own ship and cost humanity their one shot at annihilating an enemy that had just got done exterminating 99% of all humans.

Adama's reaction when he found out he'd done it?

*Shrug*

"Sure am glad we didn't need to go through with that. It would have been really mean. You're dismissed, Helo."

Anyone who watched a single minute of the show after that episode is congenitally moronic.

330

So ... now they build the pyramids???

 

See, that explains it.  They used the fighter to lift those heavy blocks of cut stone.

Cripes.

331 So the final end of all this, after fighting for their lives for several years across the galaxy, is the colonialists commit mass suicide by wandering off into the wilderness to explore a new and bountiful world until they die alone of exposure and starvation.

Best critique of the night.

Some people have asked for better endings.  Try this.

Fist half is the same, including the faux double cross scene (that was a good twist), jump to earth.

So they have Hera now.  Let's actually explore why she was built up so much season after season instead of her just being the missing breeding link, shall we?  There can be a lot of answers here, like they can use her DNA to enable the skin jobs to mate, or maybe she is a reincarnation of the skin job that was killed off by Cavel (sp?).  Anything would have been better than what they did.

The idea of them coming to a pre-historic earth is great.  It is actually the most logical conclusion to the premise of the series.  But instead of wandering off into the wilderness, they could have made civilization with selective tech.  They could have called it Atlantis, or the egyptian pyrmids, or really anything.  This would be more satisfying because their culture and civilization that they saved would actually have been of value.  Also, they could have actually incorporated breeding Cylons into this civilization, giving a point to the whole "can't we just get along" theme of the final season. 

As for Starbuck...well, you would have to wind back the entire season to make something coherant out of it.  They didn't advance any knowledge of her situation since being reincarnated and then expected to resolve it in one episode.  They were doomed to fail.

332 Okay was it me or did anyone get the feeling that Hera was playing a bigger picture in the story plot than she was shown. Halfway through the epsiode and even now I still think that Hera had something to due with the oprea house as well as Starbuck. What if Starbuck was just a mental projection that she used from the excisting starbuck to take the colonist to the new Earth. And for the opera house the same stories applies to was it Hera that created a mental projection which she could project to the president because of there link in blood. Was Hera the true mastermind of everthing?

333 327 comments later:
- I thought the end was okay, for, you know, written on the fly and trying to tie up all the loose-end "mysteries" still cluttering up the story arc. Could have been better if it had been in development before season three ended. In an utterly perfect universe. Is all I'm saying.
- A little more religious than I would have guessed, even in a show that mentioned God in like, every episode. Funny that.
- Everyone seems dismayed by the Starbuck explanation, which I don't understand, because the whole Starbuck thing was a train wreck from the moment she reappeared. If you thought the final two hour episode was going to fix a season + worth of "HUH?" you were dreaming.
- Though, when you think about it, it fits right in with the fact that apparently God wasn't some sort of metaphor or touchstone but a literal hidden character within the show with angel minions and everything so: deus ex machina etc.
- I guess the final five hadn't been to Earth after all. Or was that all explained in the couple of episodes in the second half of season four that I missed? I didn't think I'd missed that much.
- goy in comment 307 above mentioned Dollhouse and yes, tonight's episode was very good and I think this might be a show worth doing weekly commentary on, if anybody's interested. Maybe I'll email Gabe.
- Speaking of Joss Whedon, I was a little unimpressed with the way everybody connected with BSG seems to think they invented everything they're doing on the show, like Firefly never existed. Or Buffy for that matter. Joss was the first to do so many things that these people would love to think they deserve credit for.

334 #329

What he said. Helo should have been blown out a fucking airlock. How many thousands of Colonial survivors were condemned to death and slavery by his sanctimonious treason?

335 Land in prehistoric times & flash forward is so ... ElfQuest.

sorry.

336 What's-his-face in the water was confused by having died because of "all the layers."

The only possible explanation is that the ressurection technology hooks into something that was already there for that purpose, and that there is some connection across time between the same character doing the same thing. Otherwise, it's a throwaway line that contradicts everything else.

So I'm thinking... FTL close to the singularity is special, or maybe the coordinates were special to take them back; but then the "angels" at the end rattled off planets consistent with the view of events of every character in the show.

Whoever the consistency guy was needs to be spaced.

337 I fully concur with Berzerker, this show lost all its significance when it chose to focus on "characters" rather than plot.  Although a soap opera can get away with stupid character actions and contradictory motivations, science fiction fans demand more integrity from their entertainment.  I, for one, have problems with plot holes and plot threads left dangling, my memory isn't erased nightly, as apparently the writers of this show presupposed.

Drillanwr, to answer your question and illustrate my point, Yes Calleigh and Tyrol had a child while on new Crapica. Later, when the writers chose to make Tyrol a final 5 cylon, they had to explain why this child was not "special" like Hera. To extricate themselves from this bullshit, they had they good doctor tell Tyrol that the child was not his but rather that of fighter jock, Hotdog.  Yeah, right, like there had ever been the slightest indication of a romantic attraction between the two.  This was a prime example of poor storytelling and no plot arch.

I will miss the ships and technical designs, but all in all, good riddance to bad rubbish. I hold little hope that Caprica, the prequel to this mess will be of any value whatsoever.

338 334 & 329 agreed. I'd forgotten about that, which I think is what the writers wanted. Another serious fuck-up was the episode with the striking ore processors. Up until that point I was willing to buy into the necessity of down time among the military types, with their boxing matches and Joe's bar and endless boozing, because they were the front line, laying their lives on the line for the good of all, blah blah. But then they go and show, for the sake of the plot line of a single episode, that there are other people in the fleet who live in a god forsaken, could-explode-at-any-moment death trap, losing life and limb (literally) on a daily basis, who haven't had a day off in over two years, including the time on New Caprica. But it's insulting to the President to imply that forcing them to continue that way is slavery. And if anyone suggests that again, or if they stop working 18 hour shifts without respite, Adama will put young mothers up against the bulk head to make sure the processing continues. As long as he's not barfing on himself in the latrine with Starbuck and Tigh laughing at him for not being able to hold his best hooch in the fleet. I hated every character after that episode. Fucking bad writing idea jeans.

339 Hey Rocks,
 If you're still around, what I appreciated about the show was the fact that, with certain elements removed, it could be a pretty straightforward character-war movie.  It was always a very human story; the scifi elements accentuated the characters rather than the characters playing around the rubber monster.  The series was episode-by-episode a hit and miss for me, but the arc was phenomenal.

Also, but unrelated: Stargate sucks.  Stargate and SciFi's craptastic Saturday evening movies are why we have SyFy and it's sucking ass, while shows like Terminator and Lost succed on networks while finding syndication on SciFi. 

Love it or hate it, here's my personal wish: that SciFi Network would put serious money behind a quality series like Battlestar, rather than a crap series like Stargate or shitty movies like "Rock Monster" every goddam weekend.  I check SyFy every day, and yet wind up with either rubber monsters or rubber humans (wwe) every time; I'd love to run across another serious sci-fi drama some time.

Whether you loved Battlestar or hated it, it has been one of Sci-Fi's largest successes, I wish they had another show that came even close.

340 francis: Gotta disagree about Stargate, at least the original series. In a lot of ways it opened the door for something like BSG to be made. It had lower budgets and faced the ax at the end of every season (leading to the unfortunate but inevitable "well that's that big bad gone who will we fight if there's a next season?" syndrome). But it still produced a likeable cast with a loyal following, and though the final episode was pointlessly depressing it still ended with fewer plot holes and loose ends than BSG.

341

What. . .no black people on earth? Not even in Africa

And the "eve" from Africa that we're all kin to is really this hybrid cylon asian kid.

 

342 I can't believe anyone out there thinks this show was anything less than unadulterated crap.  I can appreciate that people liked the show based on the overoptimistic hope that they were actually, you know, writing a -story- with a coherent plot, but if you can have watched that ending and not realize that we were all completely snowed in that respect, there's little hope for you remaining.

I mean, seriously.  I guess the fighter that Starbuck came back in was an "angel" too?  Or was that fighter made for her by Angel Acme, Inc.?

If the writers had had one freaking ounce of creativity, the fighter she came back in would've been one of the final five cylons.

Qwinn

343 Couole of points.

@274 He (Wm. Shatner) doesn't liked to be called that. He prefers to be called "The Big Giant Head".

Helo and Athena, your daughter becomes a whore. She is the only one mates successfully, hence mitochondrial Eve. And she had to mate quite a bit with a bunch of different guys to keep the recessive genes from taking over.

344 #342, I suggested the fighter as one of the Final Five, but no one listened to me.

And if God can create the universe and then send a dead fighter pilot back for one more shot at mission accomplishment, He can create a shiny new fighter.

345 Okay.....someone who hated the ending please tell me how YOU would have ended it?

Since the cylon colony was hovering near some kind of quantum singularity event (which was never used in the final episode), have the accidentally fired nukes rip open a tear in space (reacting to the singularity) which sucks in the Colony, as well as Galactica (maybe have the fleet there as well). Hurled an unkown distance, the whole bunch of them crash land on a primitive planet that is able to sustain life. They move forward, building a civilization (without throwing away the technology) and eventually, after hundreds of years, are able to leave the panet to colonize others...

...that planet being Kobal, of course.

And the entire thing being one massive time loop that is unable to break itself.

...

Tonight's finale sucked ass. And there never really was a good explanation for Starbuck. Stupid, stupid, stupid...

346 LOL THERE ARE ANGELS WATCHING US MAYBE EVANGELICALS WILL WATCH CAPRICA LOL

347 And, oh yeah, can someone explain to me again -why- the 13th tribe, which was all cylons, and which left a world that was otherwise all humans, left a bunch of probes behind that carried a disease that killed cylons?

Complete schlock.  Made shit up as they went along, and the utterly incoherent result is what we got.

In terms of what Moore said in the "last frakking special" (thank God), I wasn't watching this show for the -characters-, the characters sucked.  Adama spent half the fucking series blubbering drunk on a floor, Starbuck and Lee Adama were both irredemable skank sluts (and thanks for reinforcing that tonight, so glad we had their utter sluttishness reinforced one more time), the guy above who mentioned that episode about Helo being a treasonous scumbag who should've been executed in mis season 3 and the show was utterly unbearable after that was dead one.... and if I hadn't already loathed Roslin since season 2, the revelation that she was also a complete skank slut tonight would've gotten me there.  Utterly contemptible parodies of human beings, every last one.

Qwinn

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349 Damn right Qwinn! About the only character that had any kind of integrity was Athena. Once she chose a side, she stayed on it. It was also a waste to kill off Dee who never seems to give into all the emo crap that was constantly on display from the rest of the crew.

350 Dysfunctional comes to mind. The whole fucking crew. I spent most of the times even wondering if that entire fucking fleet even deserved to survive.

My biggest question is-
How the fuck did that doctor NOT run out of cigarettes?  Man he must have had 1000 cartons with him.

351 What I was praying for:

Cavil has Hera and is threatening her on the bridge.  Baltar goes into his rousing religious speech, ever so gradually swaying Cavil, making him believe, and 2/3 of the way through in the middle of a phrase BLAM Adama shoots Cavil in the back of the head having casually walked up behind him.    (Or, for bonus points, Roslyn shoots Cavil in the back of the head, thanks Baltar, and says, "I've been listening to you for so long that I know exactly when you're about halfway through and have everyone going.)

When they were doing the big mind-melding thing and transmitting the information back to the Cylons they completely missed a trick by not having Hera sneak up and put her hand in the water.  Her magical human/Cylon information plus the Cylon song plus her special opera house stuff would all get transmitted and downloaded to all the Cylons when they were defenseless, instant resolution of everything.  That would be the whole point of everyone's visions involving bringing Hera to the center of the opera house.  It was even set up beforehand, showing that Hera could do Cylon projection and communication and had the music.

352 The only part of this show that actually made sense to me was the bit where Starbuck vanishes, though I was sorry to see her go cause I think Katee Sackhoff is HAWT.

353 The only part of that show I enjoyed was watching the writers get run over and cursed with "Frakkin' Hippies" as they breathed their last.  That part of it, at least, was absolutely perfect.

Qwinn

354 The only part of the show I liked was where Rosalin shoos away her boy toy so she can start her political career. I know for a fact that decision made the rest of her short life miserable.

355 Utterly predictable.  All the leftie papers are publishing glowing reviews.

I had 4 hyperlinks all ready to go to show what I'd found, including two sites which have comments with everyone talking about how -awesome- that ending was, but then I get bit by the "strings too long" even though I've hyperlinked.  Gods.  Can that please get fixed?  I'm -not- going to tinyurl every freakin' link, we should at least be able to hyperlink urls, that's not going to break the page.

Anyways, yes, it looks like everyone outside of this blog loved the ending.  Expect more utter crap like this in the years to come.

/decline of western civilization

Qwinn

356 Oh, and btw, that Kara Thrace was -some- "harbinger of death", wasn't she?

Except for the part where she didn't actually lead anyone to their death.

/epic fail

Qwinn

357 Hmm, if the skin jobs and humans were possibly breeding, why don't our backs glow red when screwing?

358

Well, the show did stick the premise of "This has happened all before, and will happen again."

What they could have done- Galactica only has one jump left to her.  They know of 2 planets that will support life.  Earth- which is soft and easy but will lead to the repitition of the cycle of humans vs. cylons.  Or New Capirca which is hard but livable and could possibly lead to something else.  Faced with this decision, they chose New Caprica and attempt to break the cycle by facing and overcoming adversity.

Of course then some would grumble "What about all that 'This has happened before' shit. 

359 Yeah - it was worth it. You've held on this long. Go ahead and finish.

ps Qwinn - Kara had the plan for blowing up the resurrection ship. (didn't she? It's been awhile)

360 "Further, Kara Thrace was not an angel, rather she was more like Gandalf in Lord of the Rings; she was allowed to return to fulfill a divine purpose."

Gandalf, being a Maia, WAS the closest thing to an angel in Tolkien's mythology.  Kara was...WTF?!  Lamest series finale EVER.

361 Sneakers

362 357 - yours doesn't?

363

I want to steal more lines from other, better shows....

Tyrol: Did you really say "Give me an incubator or give me death"?

Tory: I only have one regret ... and that's that I have ... boneitis.

364 I was watching Robot Chicken with Ron Moore on there..   asking about who  he picks out to be Cylons..

"Ah, I just throw a dart at the list of characters, 'He's a Cylon,'"

365 Hmmmm.

Utter and total shit.

I'm sorry folks but only some dumbass motherfucker who -has never farmed- is stupid enough to think -farming with hand tools- is a cool idea.

So let me get this straight.  A bunch of people with absolutely no skills outside of a technologically advanced society are going to ...

A. Farm with hand tools?  Without pesticides?  Without nitrogen fertilizer?

B. Give up antibiotics and advanced medical care?

C. Give up toilet paper and wipe their ass with leaves?

D. Build houses with what precisely?  Anybody cut trees for lumber?  Sure cutting trees down isn't that hard.  Cutting trees into -boards- and with hand tools is total shit work.

...

This is pure Hollywood enviro-whacko bullshit idiot theory.  We all give up technology and live in Gaia's ass.

Utter crap.

366 Whether you loved Battlestar or hated it, it has been one of Sci-Fi's largest successes, I wish they had another show that came even close.

Francis,
  Absolutely no argument there. But the chief thing BSG had going for it was it's productions values, that is where it's a breakout show. Not it's writing or acting.
SyFy is pretty much unremitting crap on every level. BSG rose WAY above that, but it that doesn't make it great.

The series was episode-by-episode a hit and miss for me, but the arc was phenomenal.
 
Here I would strongly disagree. There is no consistent arc to BSG. Instead it's the start of one and the end of another and you only get half of each. BSG is 2 halves from different stories with an ending from neither.
The Starbuck character is to epitome of this failing. She is 2 entirely different characters played by the same actress with the same name. Her only consistent meme is that she's a skank who can shoot.

367 A better ending would be if they got to Earth and instead of a primitive world it turned out to be where the <b>real</b> 13th tribe went, and as soon as they pass over the moon, they're met with a few ships from the people there. They all land, the people swap war stories, history and archaeology buffs start drooling, and they all live (mostly) happily ever after, until those centurions return in a few decades and start another war.

368

Entropy: Mal would be hooked up with River.

I got no problem with that.

 

369

Greetings,

I want to thank all of you people who posted comments here on BSG. I found it entertaining and in some caces I learned things I had overlooked, but most of all it was humorous. I'm an older person and I like to see what the younger generation has to say on things. While I may not agree with everything, I know America is in good hands. (The people of this next generation, not the government) Just remember, people can get along, governments cannot so theold men send the young ones off to war, and I am no antiwar type either. I served during Viet Nam and supported Iraq and Afganistan. The next generation will stand as tall as everyone before it, and to follow up a post, perhaps we can find something better than a 55 gallon barrel for storage. We can always ask Obama's teleprompter. One day, when you all take off to fight the Ctlons, remember us because it has all happened before and will happen again!

 

370 All right.... can someone please let me know what the frak happened last night...
1: did the centurions find anders before he drove off to the sun?2: who is baltar and 6? they can't be immortals. 3: let's say kara was an "angel of god"... does "god" operates a viper manufacturing plant? where the hell did her ship come from. don't forget that it wasn't just a viper. it had all the instruments, numbers along with "galactica" written across on it. 4:how could there be 3X karas. (the one that flew the viper to a gas planet, the one found dead on "earth", and the one came back)

371

csquared: Okay.....someone who hated the ending please tell me how YOU would have ended it?

In any manner which didn't involve this oppressive, stulitifying, imagination-crushing, inspiration-killing, hopelessness & desperation & purposelessness born of anti-artistic [anti-human, anti-life] nihilism.

Do you realize that since the original release date of December 8, 2003 - MORE THAN FIVE YEARS AGO!!! - there have been all of two children born in this series: Hera to Athena & Helo, and Nicholas to Cally & "Hot Dog"?

With the myriad smokin' hot chicks in this series - in Gaius Baltar's harem alone, there must must have been 50 or 100 young fertile wombs just begging for the seed - the writers couldn't be bothered to give us just a few more pregnancies and a handful of live births?

And then they state in the final scene that only Hera's DNA persisted into the future - with the implication being that no further children [certainly no further female children] were born to any of the other the 38,000 survivors?!?

What the hell is it with our elites and their infatuation with policidal nihilism?!?

PS: This series jumped the shark for me many years ago when it was revealed that Doc Cottle was performing abortions. I shouldn't have wasted two hours last night watching this nonsense - I knew years ago how it would end.

And so it did.

372 I had a better fucking ending written in mind then that shit.

1) The original cylons were a version of us, technological advancements to the point of complete, indistiguishable marriage between metal and flesh (i.e. the same direction we are going now, artificial hearts, limbs) which would explain their ability to reproduce and age.

2) Starbuck was brought back because the resurrection machine the 5 built was still hidden near the 1st earth (e.g. the moon).

3) Hera has only minor importance because she is just a less-diluted version of the original human/cylon(cyborg) evolution.

4) The whole dream/plan/god crap was because of varriations in concentrations of memory-enhancing/repair nanobots left over from the original cylon/cybog-humans. 

5) Return to the original earth, recover the resurrection tech, back to the new earth, keep the toasters as worker drones, build a real advanced society of immortals who CAN break the cycle because they fucking lived through it, a civilization that will out-breed and out-live the evil cylons; a civilization that can finally get its shit together and build weapons a little more advanced than what us monkeys managed to come up with over 50 years ago. (I mean, fuck, you got intersteller travel--and the energy source neccasary to pull that off--and your best personal weapon is chemical propelled and your biggest bomb is a nuke? Fuck me, no wonder they are such losers).

--See, that's scifi: Imagine our future with some of the struggles we face today eliminated because of technology and address how we deal with our own, unchanging nature and the new struggles.


Again, what a shitty, shitty, worthless, stupid, pointless ending. Only people who live 50 miles from the nearest meat-packing plant or farm, who've never had to clean dirt and mud from under their nails, who've never gotten up a 5AM to milk and feed animals would ever, could ever concive of the utter and total stupidity of giving up technology and going back to nature--daily food is the hardest fucking thing mankind engages in. But, to these fucking rejects--to who the hardest thing they've ever done is work to get 0 elected--going back to nature sounds easy.

373 I agree that they wrote themselves into a corner. The last two seasons felt too much like they were making stuff up as they went along, epsiode by episode.

374 Hmmmm.

The essential problem with BSG is the same exact problem with Lost:

Nobody sat down and actually wrote out the entire fucking story.

Instead you've got competing sets of writers all sitting around and bouncing stupid-ass ideas off one another.  Look at the whole issue of four of the Final Five meeting each other in a room.  That came to the producer while he was in the -shower-!!  It's idiotic!

As for the ending: it sucked ass.

Seriously.  A line of people -walking- while carrying their limited amount of crap on their shoulders?  A group of people who have lived aboard starships for the past 5 years!?  Who probably haven't walked more than a few hundred yards at a time during those 5 years?

Utter utter crap.

375 .
.
So somewhere out there is that Raptor. . . where's my damn metal detector and shovel?!?!
.
.

376

Put me down with the "ending sucked" crowd. Aside from all the previously mentioned problems, the biggest problem for me was that it was utterly pointless. The entire plot was to save Hera from Cavil. While I support saving children from kidnappers as an end itself, here it was supposed to be a means to some end. But what?

If Hera had the coordinates to Earth, then that might have made sense. Ok, she did, but, Starbuck had them too. Sure, she went on to become “mitochondrial Eve” or whatever, but that was hardly necessary, or even really made much sense. So, out of all the BSG people who just landed and all the early humans already on the planet, all humans evolved from Hera? No one else had any other children that we all could have descended from? Hell, Helo and Athena could have had more children (and they likely would have), and humans could have descended from one of those. Hardly needed Hera to be “Eve”. It seemed like a cheap way of making her "important", and a bit of an uncreative cop-out.

So potentially hundreds of soldiers died to save Hera for what purpose exactly? Other, than to put “the plot” in motion and make Starbuck realize what the notes meant, I guess. Anyway, the hybrid child needed to have more meaning or more purpose for the whole thing to work, in my opinion. After all this, you almost get the sense that if Cavil had been successful in slicing and dicing her, he would have found…nothing.

And, as others have mentioned, they kind of tossed that whole Starbuck is the “harbinger of death” thing out the window, which I may have accepted if they had done it sooner, but even Anders was mentioning this only a few episodes ago. And why did Leoben get all bent out of shape at seeing the dead Starbuck? I always thought that he knew of some prophesy, and that’s why it scared the crap out of him. Otherwise, why would a cylon, who was quite familiar with resurrection, be all that upset about it? Confused perhaps, but not scared.

It seemed to me that the writers wanted to go with some sort of “darker” ending but chickened out. However, it really would not have been that difficult to resolve the “harbinger of death” thing. Just present a situation where Starbuck has to sacrifice herself in some way so that everyone else may live.

Also, one more problem: these people spent years together fighting for their lives, and now they just want to wander off in small groups, or even completely alone? Even at the end, the writers seemed to recognize this as improbable, by having the new president lawyer guy (forget his name) say he expected to see more resistance to the idea. Of course he would, because it’s asinine. It was completely contrived, but then, so was the entire last season.

377

Well, I'm glad it's over.

I didn't hate the ending. I always thought it was very likely that they'd land on our Earth sometime before the Ancient Greeks, because that would be an explanation of the 12 signs of the Zodiak.

For everyone thinking it's crazy they left technology behind, how could they have kept it up? They had some old ships and 38,000 people. Not sure how many cylons made it. Maybe they could have kept some technology going, but things were pretty basic on New Caprica, too.

Oops, need to switch computers...

378 On a brighter note, at least now we know the evolutionary origins of the Mongoloid Right.

(Bloody monkey frackers.)

379 "So, out of all the BSG people who just landed and all the early humans already on the planet, all humans evolved from Hera? No one else had any other children that we all could have descended from?"


Come to think of it, isn't that the glaring bullshit in the whole "Mitochondria Eve" hype when real scientists tried to claim they really DID find the Common Ancestor of Us All?

Anyway,

I had a chance to sleep on it and I STILL think the ending sucked... here they land on a planet of primitive humans, and instead of seeing it as an opportunity to uplift the lives and prospects of fellow people that are living a life that is "nasty, brutish, and short," they decide it would be wonderfully high minded and ecologically sound of them to actually ditch their entire civilization and technology, and freaking JOIN the Primitives! Damning their own kids to a life without modern medicine, steady food supplies, and any rest whatsoever from a constant struggle just to survive until age 30 or so before dying of an easily preventable or curable cause.

And THIS is what Liberals call a neat ending?? Amazing.

Lee Adama, on the other hand, would be nuts to assume that from then on he would be free to just "explore" the world - start "exploring" for lunch, asshole! And hope that sharp pain in your lower tummy ain't your appendix, or you're about to kick the bucket 'cause you just sent the hospital ship straight into the Sun. How's that for "perfect" irony?

380 357 "Hmm, if the skin jobs and humans were possibly breeding, why don't our backs glow red when screwing?"
Posted by: William Teach at March 21, 2009 06:22 AM (7yTel)

Yours doesn't??

381 214
So...

Starbuck died on irradiated Earth and became an Angel, and has been one this entire season?

Or did I miss something?


My theory is that the REAL Starbuck died, and was REPLACED by an Angel - perhaps one that didn't even realize she was a replacement at first.

382 298 Better ending?
I was hoping Adama would die, and then he would wake up in one of those pools like the skin jobs do. Then, come to find out, they are all skin jobs.
Posted by: gointomexico at March 20, 2009 11:35 PM (DB/xz)

That actually WOULD be a good ending; I kind of hoped for the same outcome. It would be thought provoking - the idea that original hatred outlasts even the parties to the original dispute, as the "winners" even forget who they really are but remember the original grievance.

OH well, why have something that amounts to a meditation on the nature of human conflicts that last centuries, when instead you can settle for a cheap Green "message" that makes no sense??

383 For everyone thinking it's crazy they left technology behind, how could they have kept it up? They had some old ships and 38,000 people. Not sure how many cylons made it.

Mama the bigger question is how could they leave it behind at all. Technology is information/knowledge, not just the piles of stuff it produces. They clearly say they will give the monkeys language, well did they intentionally give up writing? Because that's the only way it takes another 150,000 years to get to the end of the show.
Writing alone would chop off 130,000 years or so. Just the knowledge of how to make steel would completely change history. The society at the end would be 100,000 years advanced of that of BG, not a repeat of it. A huge part of our evolution as a species is the result of the inability to effectively pass on our knowledge in a consistent way. It makes sense for us because we had to develop writing, they didn't.

384 @376: What exactly WAS the incredible importance of Hera, worth risking the lives of thousands of humans at a time when precious few were left alive?

Makes no sense whatsoever.

385 @383.

Correct.

If nothing else, these people HAD language, HAD an education, HAD a knowledge of the true nature of the world and the universe, and HAD a grasp of all that was possible to do.

Surely, out of those thousands, there were engineers and technologists and scientists and doctors.

It's just insane to imagine that as soon as they landed in the New World, the Pilgrims would have immediately burned the Mayflower, thrown their weapons into the Sea, and never made any European devices ever again. Yet this episode had the Galactica "Pilgrims" do just that.

Insane, and an insult to the value of Civilization. But when you come right down to it: isn't the final outcome of this last episode the logical outcome of today's PETA and Sierra Club crowd Gaia Worship?

386

Re lack of a story arc:

They had an arc and yet still dicked around trying to come up with new and exciting twist and turns. I watched a few minutes of the special and had to leave the room when they talked about how they decided who the Final Five were. You can't have it both ways. Either you let the characters develop and see where they go, or you know where they are going from the start. Trying to fit both into one show led to a mess of confusion, like the issue of Hera being so important except that she shouldn't have been when they had 38,000 people.

What really is bugging me is that in the beginning the hand of the God-like being is much lighter. A prophecy here, a vision there. By the end, he is handing coordinates to an angel. I guess it's happened before and will happen again because he's making it happen!

387

Mama the bigger question is how could they leave it behind at all. Technology is information/knowledge, not just the piles of stuff it produces. They clearly say they will give the monkeys language, well did they intentionally give up writing?

Anne McCaffery did something similar with Pern. The people who went there intentionally gave up some technology, but had planned to keep some. Disasters and disease wiped out a lot of knowledge and tools quickly.

Don't know how many original Earth primatives were there, but I could make up a story line where the BSG folk got mixed in and killed off quickly enough that they lost technology pretty darn fast.

But they didn't forget about the 12 colonies!!

Okay, I'm not believing myself...

Wanna hear the one about Hera growing up to be a super breeder who had so many offspring that her DNA got quickly mixed in with EVERYONE else on the planet?

388 The first sign that they had no idea where to go with the series was when Starbuck and Apollo started cheating on their respective spouses with each other.

I think the point of no return was when Apollo left the military. The series really wanted to become something else because flying around in Vipers and shooting Cylons had gotten old (which, arguably, it did...)

I saved 'The last frakking special' on my DVR because I wanted to go into the Finale cold. It sounds like it just would have confirmed everything I had thought. That they had this great start and simply didn't know where to go with it.

I think that is the source of most of the disappointment. Those of us who saw how great the series started and kept watching just to find out if this was all going to make sense in the end.

389

So potentially hundreds of soldiers died to save Hera for what purpose exactly?

She was supposed to show that the two sides could live together in peace.

Then they had to once again show how smart they are and throw in the "Eve" line...which makes no sense because they really aren't that clever.

There's a similar situation in real life. Now who is it? I just can't put my finger on it...

390 First, Col Tigh is a guy I can definitely party with.  Holy jeez, and Ellen too!  OMG!

Second, my beloved Racetrack took one for the team and launched the nukes that took out the colony, saving Galactica and the remainders of the assault team.  It's too bad she didn't get to make it out of there.  Poor Racetrack...

The last half hour reminded me of the last half hour of LoTR:RoTK.  Too much fucking time spent on saying goodbye.  I do, however, love that Moore wrapped up the Tori-Tyrol loose end quite nicely.  Does Galen Tyrol have to choke a bitch?  Absolutely!

Fuck Ron Moore with a pickax.  Sideways.

391

I agree that they had to get to earth some time before the greeks and romans and all the rest of our recorded history.  However, a civilized people like that wouldn't abandon all their advanced knowledge to join the savages.  That's a liberal hippy socialist fantasy.  2 days of going hungry and you'd better believe they'd be trying to turn their remaining raptors into roto-tillers and looking for local sources of tylium.

More likely, they'd collect themselves into a small town/farming community like they tried to do on New Caprica.

They should have made it so that they were the founders of the lost city of Atlantis or something...that'd be easier to take.

The final show was better than I thought it'd be...but that's not saying much.  Oh well, I can have my friday nights back now.

392 A friend of mine said it best - "There is no way that most of those characters would have given up distillation technology considering how much alcohol they drank"

Perhaps that is the only technology that survived to modern day?

That would make more sense then the rest of that ending.

393

I see alot of you missing the point with the whole "giving up civilization" thing.  They didn't all take acid and go dance with trees like some of you seem to imply.  By this stage in the story they've come to understand that humanity has repeated the same destructive cycle time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time (gonna keep saying it til it sinks in) after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time.  Alright. 

So rather than build the same thing again knowing they'll just end up screwing themselves down the road they accepted their own flawed nature and decided to give it up.  They opted to mix it up with the natives and the cylons and create something new, in the hopes that they might finally ultimately survive as a race.

I would hope if we're still tangling with terrorists and North Korea in a thousand years we'd give some thought to starting over too.

394 I understand why people are confused about Starbuck and the confusion is entirely the fault of the writers for giving the impression she is one character, she isn't. There are 2 Starbucks and the only thing that relates them is the name and the same actress playing them.

Writers are petty gods for the most part. Having been told their creation was getting cut what do they do? The end for them is not the end of this part of a story, but death. Here we get just that, a literal death to almost everything.

The show itself is 2 entirely different shows pivoting on the death of Starbuck 1. BG1 similar to the old about a struggle to survive and progress ending with Starbuck 1's death on original Earth. Her death being there purposely to show that story is over. BG 1 is an exploration of life which is entriely rejected in BG 2.

BG 2 is about death and killing off this society. Who conviently shows up, Starbuck 2. Starbuck 2 is indeed an Angel, but she's the Angel of Death. Sent with the instructions on how to effect that.

The line of people at the end kinda gives it away in it's homage to The Seventh Seal. The surviors doing little more than dancing to the tune waiting their turn. Indulging their personal whims rather than being concerned with society any longer. Adama as the Knight, having battled against the inevitable patiently waits in his new home for Death to arrive. Tehnology here playing the part of the Black Plague.

Why is 7th Seal brilliant and this a steaming load? 7th Seal examines death and morality from a personal standpoint, contrasting it against society. BG 2 tries to do the same but tries to apply it to an entire society. It doesn't work, there's no contrast, only Death.

395 Steve, I think you're missing the point that most conservatives think that the "cycle of violence" trope is a bunch of bullshit and overused by liberal culture warriors in their stories.

396

The reason BSG sucks is the same reason Ace's blog is starting to suck: too many Perez Hilton types doing the writing. Whatever happened to raising the black flag and ...?

Instead of hard-hitting conservative blogging, you have a sweet lawyer writing a diary about a melodramatic, liberal themed soap opera on SyFy.

397 The close of BSG was such BS for one reason --

The Admiral and the XO were hard charging boozers. Showed that in flash backs on the final episode and throughout the series. Now, some idiot son is going to turn to the old man and say chuck it all, no more technology, no more scotch! 5 secs later there would have been a dead son and dad looking for a glass as the XO hands over another bottle.

398 393. It is the terrorists and North Korean regime who are the cycles of violence. Respect for individual liberty is the way to "start over", out of the cycles of violence from a history of totalitarian governments and serfdom. It is those with extreme dogmas (leftists, religious fundamentalists, fascists, etc.) who want strong power for their organizations, government agencies and religion who perpetuate this cycle of violence as they suppress the liberty and independence of the individual.

I had originally seen the show as: cylons = extreme dogma, colonists = liberty. Then the show's creator decided to switch it around, which was a huge error as there is no getting past the extremely evil actions of the cylons, and there was nothing major to condem the colonists as the cylons' moral equivelents.

Technology is only a tool. Sometimes it is used as a tool used to free, sometimes a tool used to suppress, subjugate or exterminate. Now, if the colonists were an evil military fascist regime, who built technology to subjugate others, then finally realized the error of their ways, the ending might make a little sense. But they appeared to be a democratic freedom loving society who used technology for the betterment of their society. Therefore, the ending is illogical. It is just the self indulgent projection of the show's creator's crap philosophy, and his inacurate feeble jab at the USA.

399 Ok, i for one agree that the ending sucked big time.
Moore did mention the story was about the characters. that was ok. the parts where baltar yelling and hitting his dad and all those flash backs were amazingly done.
but since the verse "all this has happened before and will happen again" thing should have been more clarified.
Hybrid in the rebel cylon base ship could have been damaged by some way. then at the end when they gave the base ship to centurions sam could have been the replacement. this could have gone really smoothly because NO ONE EXCEPT kendra shaw knew the existence of the old man hybrid. that is the only way the cylcle could have repeated. also from that when humans of the new "earth" create their cylons the next razor can happen. when caval had the gun to hera at the cic there were enough marines to take a perfect shot without hurting the girl. there was no need to give resurruction back to caval.

400 ""It is just the self indulgent projection of the show's creator's crap philosophy, and his inacurate feeble jab at the USA.""

 Thats what I was seeing the entire series.

401

The more I think about it, the more I dislike the ending.

Can somebody please explain to me the whole point of the Opera House and Hera story arcs?  Just when it seemed that we were coming to some resolution on those lines, they chucked it all aside in the last ten minutes when the Chief killed that chick and, instead, ended the story with something (the music note Earth coordinates) that could have been used a year ago.  The Opera House and Hera were ultimately irrelevant to saving the BSG people.

It's like what was said in Murder by Death --

Lionel Twain: You've tricked and fooled your readers for years. You've tortured us all with surprise endings that made no sense. You've introduced characters in the last five pages that were never in the book before. You've withheld clues and information that made it impossible for us to guess who did it. But now, the tables are turned. Millions of angry mystery readers are now getting their revenge. When the world learns I've outsmarted you, they'll be selling your $1.95 books for twelve cents.

402 if any of you fucks start dressing in bsg costumes and arranging conventions im gonna quit this fuckin blog.

403 A more plausible ending would have been Adama gathering everyone and saying: I've been running for four years, my ship is dying, my woman is dying, my liver is dying, my story about Earth turned out to be a crock.  I now know where every last hostile Cylon is located, so everyone is going to make a choice.  Either go back to your quarters and blow your brains out like Dee, or step across this red line and come with me on a one way mission to jump right into their colony and finish this once and for all.

Too close for nukes. . . . Puh-leeeeeze!!!

Also, a few more questions. . .
1)  Where were the classic Raiders during the battle at the colony?  I saw a couple parked when Boomer returned, were they down for maintenance?
2)  Not one of the retro Walking Toasters uttered the phrase "By Your Command"??  Come ON!!
3)  They set the "Red Stripe" (Red Shirts. . .OK I get it) Centurions free in their own base star. . . If the raiders and centurions were basically pets, how do they understand the concept of "Following their own Destiny"?
4)  Do you think the writers took the "Turbo" button out of the Vipers because of the excess greenhouse gas emissions?  I don't remember seeing any Viper pilot in BSG2 ever hitting the Turbo button to get out of trouble. . .

404 I'm sure this discussion is long over, but regarding my earlier "Stargate Sucks" tirade, I wasn't really talking about the original series.  I think I watched the original series, at least some of it, and liked it, low production values and all.  I was refferring to the 99,000 spin offs and sequels that pollute the current Sci Fi channel almost 22/7, with the other two hours being wrestling.  Those shows suck, and IMO should be dumped for something more serious like Battlestar.  Unfortunately, it seems to be trending the other way.

405

I see alot of you missing the point with the whole "giving up civilization" thing. 

Oh, I got it. I just don't buy it. You don't spend five years trying to save yourself and your civilization only to get to your destination and say, "F--- it all. I'm going to build a house with a nice view and wait to die. In fact, let's all do that." I just don't see most of the characters agreeing to that. Tyrol? Sure. Adama? Ok. But not the majority of them.

406 Too close for nukes. . . . Puh-leeeeeze!!!

That was completely stupid. What difference does distance make when you have the ability to jump?
Jump in, dumb the shit, jump out. Survey the damage and do it again if needed.
If that was the tack there were going to take then they should say they were concerned about Hera, not too close. FAIL.

407

I had originally seen the show as: cylons = extreme dogma, colonists = liberty. Then the show's creator decided to switch it around, which was a huge error as there is no getting past the extremely evil actions of the cylons, and there was nothing major to condem the colonists as the cylons' moral equivelents.

I don't have a problem with the fact that this series was about gray, rather than about light and dark, like B5.

At least I didn't have a problem with it at first. Sharon didn't know she was a Cylon. Athena proved herself repeatedly. Admiral Cain killed off civilians.  If some of the Cylons want to join your side, let 'em help. But Caprica Six? First she destroys the planet and then it's cool that's hooked up with Tigh and Baltar? Yeh, she helped out some, but still. I agree, it's just not equivelent.

408 if any of you fucks start dressing in bsg costumes and arranging conventions im gonna quit this fuckin blog.

Not that I ever would but what would be the point here?
Everybody is dead, a failure. What's the point of dressing up as that?
"Hey! My character who I dress up as is cooler than yours!"
"Uhh, not really, In the end they were all equally dead."

The convention would be 1200 Heras. A little tough on the taller guys.

409

This is just so mcuh piling on at this point but the whole "let's restart fresh"ending clearly wasn't thought through by the writers because they immediately had the fleet survivors start talking about farming.  Wasn't the whole point that they were going to join a hunter/gatherer society?  Agriculture is a whole different step up in social evolution from hunter/gatherers.  The mere presence of beings from an advanced society would have altered the native culture in ways too numerous to contemplate.

Lame, stupid and pointless.

410 I agree with a lot of what Qwinn and the rest of you are saying....this seems to be the only place on the internet that people agree the ending flat out sucked. Writers backing themselves into corners, irrational character actions and plots, the overall poor execution....this show went over three seasons with some amazing writing and then it seems like the writers just gave up and said "shit, I don't know to end all these plot lines we've been developing, let's throw in some deus ex machinae and some spiritual nonsense, then close with some snappy modern day 'message' and pictures of...get this...DANCING ROBOTS!".

I wonder who is to blame, because I'm pretty sure they could have EASILY come up with some amazing finishes to the plot lines, or at least satisfactory ones...instead we got complete garbage. One of the best shows on TV ruined thanks to some asshole's "shower epiphany"...thanks, Ron Moore.

Oh, and Caprica looks like a trashy soap opera shit too.

411 Finale = Epic Fail.  Moore was always going on about how the show was criticized by the left and right and that was proof that there was no lefty, hippy agenda.  Let me suggest:  You may be a lefty, eco-whackjob, if you can't come up with ONE coherent reason why the Cylons were wrong to exterminate humanity. (The underlying theme of the Cylons had a plan BS was that there decision to massacre 12 planets was logical and right especially if you were a cylon. And not one human could logically and coherently defend the existence of humanity throughtout the entire series.)  At the end, Apollo accepted the Cylons world view i.e. Cylons were justified in slaughtering humans because of their sin of creating technology.   Other issues, just to name a few:

1) The humans survived so that they could reject humanity and go live alone like trolls.
2) The only "normal" family was Helo and his blow-up doll ; their child, Hera, was the foundation of  all "humanity." Also, the ulitimate military man/ alpha male abandons his son, yet again, to build a house for a dead woman.  Riigght.
3)  The writers really, really hated all things feminine/female.  While Roselyn was the closest thing they had to a strong, non-insane woman, she could always be counted on to be wrong on the big issues.  (Adama was pro-life for practical reasons.  If Roselyn wanted to rebuild humanity, then society couldn't abort babies.  God forbid a woman be pro-life because it is the right thing to do.)
4) Finale, typical nihilistic world view.  The true believers were the cylons and they committed genocide.  The humans didn't really believe in God (Baltar became a god) or were hypocrites.  So really, what is the whole point of God (he doesn't like being called that) and angels coming in to save the day?
5) What was the resurrection nonsense because the cylons had resurrection but it didn't stop them from slaughtering the humans the first time?
6) Did I mention they don't really like women or the feminine perspective?  Cause I don't see how any woman who survived genocide and was dragged across the universe would VOLUNTARILY give up all their stuff to live on a dirt farm.  As Damon Wayons said, "men would live in a cardboard box if they could get women to have sex in it."  You can send your ships into the sun but you will have to pry my iphone and diamonds from my cold, dead fingers!!!

412 Oh, and off the top of my head, some especially retarded things I noted were (there were many, many more that you guys have covered pretty nicely so I won't mention those again):

Tyrol choking out Tory Foster, who he himself implied he never really loved but settled for AND cheated on him, effectively ruining peace between the cylons and humans despite the fact that everyone was apparently cool with Tigh killing Ellen and not to mention the past thousands of years of history they all had, and then afterward everyone is just like "OH HEY ITS COOL MAN" despite effectively ruining everything at stake over one person's death. Then again like with the Helo thing earlier, I guess the protagonists on this show never really get punished for acting like complete tools.

The introduction, and then subsequent lack of explanation, of the Number 7 cylon (Daniel). This was absolutely retarded. If he wasn't going to follow up with this character's significance, or work them into the plot somehow, or show who they were, he shouldn't have even mentioned them. The writers inserted this surely knowing people would be asking "ok, well, who is it?", and I thought it was a nice touch: after seeing the final 5 revealed and thinking that was the end of it, no more unexpected revelations of humans as cylons, maybe one more person in the fleet was one (I know they said the line died, but who knows - one could easily been saved). I thought Gaius would have been it, and then I thought they HEAVILY implied it was Kara's father on the piano (turns out it wasn't. Ron Moore went as far as to say it wasn't, effectively blowing apart a theory without providing any resolution to that storyline). I thought Kara's father as a cylon would have been a great twist...everyone was going ape shit over Hera when all along they had a half human, half cylon in the fleet, leading them to Earth no less. But no, no followup with that at all.

And what they did with Anders character was just...disappointing. He was basically a floating turd for the second half off the season. They trumped up the final 5 only for them to have no real significance whatsoever.

Shit writing at the end. What a shame.

413 I can't help myself with one more. The whole final mission to retrieve Hera. The futility of it all has already been covered, but why was it executed so poorly? They basically walked in, shot some people, got shot at, then walked into Hera and hopped back out. Almost no tension whatsoever. The last big fight against the cylons and who, of importance, died? 2 insignificant extras (in the ship outside the fight no less) and Boomer? REALLY? Not that I'm for needless deaths in shows as a plot device (O NO WILL THEY LIVE OR DIE is the kind of bad writing you see in shows like 24) but to have the last stand with almost no significant character casualties is weak writing because significant people NEED to die for the viewer to believe that there is actual danger to the characters. The mutiny handled that aspect much better than the finale...part of me wishes they just reworked the mutiny as the finale.

414 3) The writers really, really hated all things feminine/female. While Roselyn was the closest thing they had to a strong, non-insane woman, she could always be counted on to be wrong on the big issues. (Adama was pro-life for practical reasons. If Roselyn wanted to rebuild humanity, then society couldn't abort babies. God forbid a woman be pro-life because it is the right thing to do.)

I got, from that "Best Frakkin'" whatever show, that the actress who played PR had quite a bit of say in her character's motivations and development. So, PR acted like a Hollywood liberal because she was played like a Hollywood liberal.

415 By a Hollywood liberal, I meant.

416

 I'm sure this discussion is long over, but regarding my earlier "Stargate Sucks" tirade, I wasn't really talking about the original series.  I think I watched the original series, at least some of it, and liked it, low production values and all.  I was refferring to the 99,000 spin offs and sequels that pollute the current Sci Fi channel almost 22/7

Uhh.. that would be 1 spin-off (Stargate Atlantis), that ran a few seasons - starting only when talk of canceling SG-1 started, and then a season later was cancelled itself.

And now the upcoming (and gay looking) SG-U looking to be spin-off #2.

So, you know, 1, 2, 99,000... Whatever.

How much does a car cost? About 42,000 dollars.

How much does a pack of gum cost? About 42,000 dollars.

417 Hmmmm.

Best ending?

Lee Adama wakes up in the Matrix world ....

418 Hmmm.

Better ending!?

Lee Adama wakes up in the island in Lost ...

419 Hmmm.

Insanely creative ending?

Lee Adama wakes up in the center square of the Hollywood Squares....

420 Ohy my.

Looks like that whole rightwing knucklehead BSG thing didn't work out.

421 all those flash backs were amazingly done

You think? I thought they were pointless time fillers. At best.

Why the frak do we need character development at the end of the fraking series? Oh, Baltar was a jerk. Now I get it...

422 The flashback fillers...I thought they were going somewhere with that, like it would somehow reveal some key piece of information for the present...but no, it did nothing.

423

I'm pretty much in agreement with all of the above, though my reaction isn't as negative: Liked it, didn't love it. "The Plan" will be a treat later in the year, and I have low expectations for "Caprica."

One part from last week I liked was when Lee asked Baltar if he had ever done anything unselfish, and Baltar didn't answer. I could think of two things: (1) Saving Callie on Kobol, and (2) not telling Lee or anyone else about the way Crashdown really died. His redemption was slow but, in the end, complete.

However the rest of the show progressed, Gaius Baltar is one of the best characters I've seen in a long while.

424 Hmmm.

Baltar didn't tell anyone because he'd have been shot for mutiny.

425 @394: that's a pretty literate analysis - I hadn't thought of the Seventh Seal reference, but yes, I can see how it can work.

Trouble is...

Do you honestly think these writers are as literate as your analysis?

426 405
"I see alot of you missing the point with the whole "giving up civilization" thing."

Oh, I got it. I just don't buy it. You don't spend five years trying to save yourself and your civilization only to get to your destination and say, "F--- it all. I'm going to build a house with a nice view and wait to die. In fact, let's all do that." I just don't see most of the characters agreeing to that. Tyrol? Sure. Adama? Ok. But not the majority of them.

Yes, yes, they gave up civilization to "break the cycle." Great. But come to think of it, is a cycle that allows billions of people to thrive most of the time, with intermittent catastrophe in between at regular (very long term) intervals, preferable to a handful of humans scraping for a miserable existence of bare subsistence?

One of the creepy things about the ending was how their society literally disintegrated: the major characters just either went "poof" (Starbuck), or stalked off on their own: Adama, the Chief, Lee Adama... they didn't even want to see each OTHER anymore. What did Adama gain, by going off to build a hut and never see anyone else ever again? How is Chief doing on that cold northern island of his, as a bitter winter closes in? Will Lee get lonely, exploring the umpteenth wild valley by himself? And where is he getting his energy bars and sunblock?

I understand literary symbolism is in play here, or at least a stab at it by the writers. But it seems to me that the survivors of BSG had themselves a pretty horrific existence from then on, one they passed on to their offspring.

427

I just would like to say I agree 100% with what CoolCzech has said.  Im much less angry reading your comments - I know Im not alone in hating this ending.

428 based on the comments in the BSG threads, thank god this waste of celluloid and film is Gone Baby Gone ...

... I'm so glad I moved to Hawai'i after Season 2 and forgot all about watching BSG

429 WTF ?? Not the way it happened, srsly...

430 Hmmm.

@ CoolCzech

"I understand literary symbolism is in play here, or at least a stab at it by the writers. But it seems to me that the survivors of BSG had themselves a pretty horrific existence from then on, one they passed on to their offspring."

This is precisely my point.

I spent my summers working on a neighbor's farm or with my aunt.  Even with modern technology, like -tractors-, farming is hard hard work from before sun up to long after sun down.  If you can't find some work to do on a farm you're either a very small child, very old or a visitor.

We're talking about 150,000 years ago!  This is before domestication of cattle and of cereal crops so you can't just plant wheat.  The wheat that exists at this point is hardly worth planting or harvesting.  Maize is still at the stage where a developed cob has like 3 kernels on it.  And don't tell me that they have seed sufficient to jump start agriculture.  We're talking about people who were reduced to eating algae!

The whole thing is beyond absurd.  Nothing more and nothing less than the progressive liberal fantasy of living with nature.  Ignoring the fact that nature is a bitch who will kill you if you aren't on your toes 24/7/365. 

431

Yes, yes, they gave up civilization to "break the cycle."

I'm sorry but this is fucking idiotic.

Going back to the start of the cycle isn't breaking the cycle. It's repeating it. Just as ... (Duh!) at the end they build little dancing robots again. Who'd think they wouldn't when everyone essentially just ran away?

They wanted a 'new start', to 'start over'. That's exactly what they did. Fuck breaking the cycle they just went back to the beginning again. I would have punched Lee Adama in the balls for that stupid shit.

432 OK, just got done watching it on DVR. Haven't read the comments yet.

This finale made sweet, sweet love to me.

433

Oh, and whoever brought up '3 starbucks' had a point.

That tidbit has bothered me ever since her corpse showed up on Earth.

Wait a minute - she blew up in a cloud or some shit, how does the corpse end up on Earth?

I knew they'd never (suitably) address that.

434 Sheesh.

1) The survivors saw billions of their people, their friends and loved ones, killed by the very machines they created. Then they spent years roaming the galaxy stuck in metal boxes fleeing these machines. Wouldn't that kind of technology-induced trauma turn you off technology for a while?

2) Just because these traumatized survivors choose this course, doesn't necessarily mean the creators are endorsing it as a good idea. Though if they said as much, they're wrong. Unless they mean it in the context of the survivors.

3) Let's assume 50,000 of us are on boats at sea when something happens that wipes out all life on land. We cluster around a Nimitz-class carrier and search for a new home. We find it. How much of what we have will be useful? Do we have farm tractors? CAT-scan machines? Chainsaws? How many doctors do we have? Do we have pharmaceutical researchers they can team up with to synthesize lifesaving drugs? Do they have the formulas? Can they make them without specialized, precision equipment? How many books on Bessemer smelting and iron-mining are on these ships? How about the equipment to do it? You'd better hope your 50,000 survivors include some blacksmiths and living-history-village interpreters, because that's all the tech you're going to manage. You could have 50,000 bricklayers, but if they don't know how to make bricks, they're pretty useless.

4) So the show was full of deus ex machina. So what? Did you notice everybody had Greek mythological names? Greek drama fits.

5) Stargate SG-1? Seriously? Derivative kiddie sci-fi. If that's your idea of good sci-fi, then no, BSG is not for you.

435 Even though this thread is all but dead..I just had to reply to schizuki..explain to me how wondering off alone on an unknown primitive world makes any sense whatsoever?  Why would any population go and destroy their agriculture ship, which would have at least supply the seed sources for their fledgling colony?  Hell, explain to me how these contentious people from many colonies would agree to give up the only comforts from home they have left? I don't buy it.

I know I would rather return to Caprica, or Geminon and take my chances scavenging off the remains of those worlds than trying to live off the land on a planet with untold natural dangers.  As a biologist, I would predict that a good 80% of these poor deluded fools would be dead within 5 years as their supplies ran out, disease and injury took its toll and nature ultimately culled their herd.

I expected that this show would go out with a whimper rather than a bang, pity I was right.  Sorry, schizuki, you will have to justify your love for this ending a little better than that.

436

So the show was full of deus ex machina. So what?

Um, I'm not sure you know what this means.

437 "Um, I'm not sure you know what this means."

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Well, let's see... I believe it was an element of Greek theater, a big crane sort of thing that lowered an actor who played a god onto the stage at the end of a play to conveniently tie up loose ends. The phrase means, literally, "god from the machine." In modern times, it's a criticism of an out-of-left-field contrivance that accomplishes the same thing. So, to have "god's plan" wrap up the series, and to have Starbuck be an "angel" ( a quasi-diety), means the show featured deus ex machina in very nearly its literal form.

What part did I get wrong?

438 Why would any population go and destroy their agriculture ship, which would have at least supply the seed sources for their fledgling colony?

---------------------------

I missed the part where they left the seeds on the ship. Seeds are "technology"?

-----------------------------

As a biologist, I would predict that a good 80% of these poor deluded fools would be dead within 5 years as their supplies ran out, disease and injury took its toll and nature ultimately culled their herd.

-------------------------

What is the alternative to their supplies running out? Do they have "replicator" technology that was never mentioned? Whether they embrace or reject technology, their supplies are going to run out. Seems a better course of action would be to make friends with the natives who know how to hunt.

-----------------------------------
Sorry, schizuki, you will have to justify your love for this ending a little better than that.

--------------------------------------------

First you'll have to do a better job debating my points.

You're a biologist. What would you contribute to the reconstruction of a technological society from scratch with the scraps of the ship you were vacationing on?

439 What part did you get wrong? Maybe the suck factor involved with using weak plot devices to magically tie up the plots you've been developing over the course of the show? It's bad writing, that's "so what".

440 What part did you get wrong? Maybe the suck factor involved with using weak plot devices to magically tie up the plots you've been developing over the course of the show? It's bad writing, that's "so what".

-----------------------

The "what part did I get wrong" referred to Jason's contention that I didn't know what "deus ex machina" means. So, what part of the meaning of "deus ex machina" did I get wrong?

441

What part did I get wrong?

Well, first, I’m not sure Starbuck being an “angel” really tied up any loose ends. What about her being a “harbinger of death”? That’s a pretty big loose end that wasn’t tied up.

Anyway, are you defending the use of this technique on the grounds that there has been a long history of crappy writing, and thus the fact that they used it is some sort of glorious adherence to this tradition?

 

442

But since you do apparently know the definition, it's all the more curious that you're defending it.

 

443

Here’s the problem I have with the ending: The writers had Dualla kill herself. Why? Because she lost hope. She thought they found Earth, and it was destroyed. They even mentioned, after finding the destroyed Earth, that suicides were up. But now, the people who didn’t lose hope, didn’t commit suicide, are going to wander off in small groups and essentially commit suicide a bit more slowly? Basically, they’re going to spend the rest of their lives with no purpose, no reason for existence, no goals.

They’re all just going to exist until they die, when they don’t have to? When they could build a civilization? Pass on their knowledge? Write their story? Sorry, still don’t buy it.

The ending rendered the entire series pointless. They spent five years struggling to survive in order to do what? So that a few of them could live a primitive existence for a couple extra years? No, the whole point is to rebuild some semblance of their civilization. If they’re not going to do that, then having the survivors live a few extra years as farmers or hunter-gatherers is not much better than if they had all just died aboard Galactica (especially considering there were already humans on Earth).

I mean, does Adama really not want to ever see his son again? The one that he was estranged from before the series, but grew to love and respect during their time on Galactica? I’m pretty cynical, but damn…

444 The "what part did I get wrong" referred to Jason's contention that I didn't know what "deus ex machina" means. So, what part of the meaning of "deus ex machina" did I get wrong?

My mistake, that was a response to your question "so what?".

445 @438: Seeds are "technology"?
-----
Clearly, you haven't been listening to the Alex Jones "non-hybrid seed" commercials during Coast to Coast AM. He's been hawking a package of seeds that "have not been genetically modified in any way" so you can grow your own little garden when civilization goes all pear-shaped.

I'm not certain what he could be selling. Couldn't be corn or wheat, for reasons mentioned earlier in this thread...

446 I'm not necessarily defending it. I'm just saying that in the context of the show's quasi-Greek mythology, it could be defensible as a deliberately self-conscious sort of "meta" narrative device, if you get my drift.

447 Whoops. Forgot to quote what I was referencing. My 446 is in response to Jason's "But since you do apparently know the definition, it's all the more curious that you're defending it."

448 Well, I do get your drift in that sense, but I'm not sure I believe it was "deliberately self-conscious" on the part of the writers. I suppose I could be wrong, but it seemed a bit overused if it was.

449 @446, that fact it could be defensible doesn't make it any less bad. Sure, we can say that the show borrowed heavily from Greek mythological elements, which include deus ex machinae to some extent, but that doesn't make its inclusion any less awful. It was a horrible plot device then and it's an even more horrible one now, especially in contrast to the solid writing the show was based on up until that point.

450 Starbuck was a divine being. She existed in human form and her mission was to lead the humans and cylons to Earth. Anything that she did or was done to her that was beyond science is explained by the fact that she was a divine being on a divine mission.

Baltar and six are a human and a cylon. There are two angels that are seen by Baltar and six. These angels appear in the form of Baltar and six.

Hera has two roles. One is to be the catalyst for a series of events that lead humans and cylons to our Earth. The other is to be mitochondrial Eve. This means that all people today are part human and part cylon. All human mitochondria are cylon. Human nuclear DNA is both cylon and human.

Yeah, you can see where the writers shifted gears and course through the series. But, the supernatural and soap opera have been a big part of this series right from the start. If all you wanted to see was cool space battles, you picked the wrong show.

451 Yeah, your criticisms are valid. Me, I thought it was overall pretty damn tasty, so I've got no trouble being generous to it. If BSG was a chick, it'd be a totally psycho, unreliable one that I would never marry but would definitely enjoy the periodic awesome blowjobs. If that means rationalizing her erratic behavior, I'm down with that.

Thus ends my sophisticated theatrical criticism.

452

If Starbuck was a divine being, how come she died on the gas giant (we saw her viper explode) then got reincarnated, then went to earth in a new viper and died AGAIN, and then got a NEW new viper and finally made it back?

I mean if she's so divine, why the big screw up with the crash on Earth when no one was around?  After she aleady had crashed the first time?  Still working on the learner's permit with the new bod?  I understand it could take a little while to get up to speed after the reincarney thing, but that's ridiculous.

This divine plan had more holes than carter has liver pills.

453 Oh good, people are still here.

I just watched it and yeah, awful. Aside from the pro-Luddite ending, the show just violated itself in so many ways big and small. And that cheesy jump to modern day with the hokey and self-indulgent cameo by Moore? That's just embarrassing.

Why did Cavil kill himself other than because the bad guy has to pay?

Why did Kara need an angel of her own (her father/the guy playing piano)? If she was the God's means to get them out of it, why did He have to send down supplementary instructions? And she wasn't the harbinger of death after all. Is that when the cycle was broken? Not according to the post-script.

As for the whole 'complex systems' and experimentation? Yeah, Douglas Adams' estate is going to want a royalty check for that. Hell, quantum universe hoping mice made more sense and was more satisfying than this pile of crap.

What was the importance of Hera again? I mean besides being a McGuffin to get everyone to the final battle with Cavil.

Why did Tyril get pissed at Tori when he hated Calli?

And on and on and on....

When this show stuck to being a high-brow space opera it was very good, sometimes even great but any pretense it had to something more (a Peabody Award? Really?) was always overblown.

I'm sure all of this was covered in the precceding 400+ comments but I felt the need to vent.

454 She died once and was restored to life once.

I left out something. Her mission to lead the humans and cylons to Earth was really a dual mission. The first was to lead them through the signal from her crashed viper to the cylon Earth from which the final five originated. The purpose was to show the humans and cylons the grim truth about the cycle of genocide and exodus.

The second half of the mission was to translate the notes of the song into the jump co-ordinates for our Earth.

455

Anything that she did or was done to her that was beyond science is explained by the fact that she was a divine being on a divine mission.

Well, that's convenient. And therein lies the problem.

Hera has two roles. One is to be the catalyst for a series of events that lead humans and cylons to our Earth. The other is to be mitochondrial Eve.

Great. I understand what her role was, but it still didn't work as a plot device. Here's why: it doesn't actually matter whether or not she had any role at all, or that the audience knew what her role was. What matters is that the fleet and Adama had to think she mattered; that she needed to be saved for some reason, even if they were wrong. But I never got the sense that they really believed this. Hell, aboard Galactica, she was treated as just another kid. She draws a picture with a bunch of dots. Well, isn’t that nice? But, if they thought she was that special, there would have been a research team assigned to watch her every move. And she never would have been abducted from Galactica so easily.

456 226 Well I for one am not shocked at this. I knew this show was a steaming pile of leftist bullshit the minute rolling stone gave it a thumbs up. I actually stopped seriously watching it after the occupation of new caprica when they paralled the Iraq war with the evil cylon (USA) occupiers, and the humans working for the occupiers in their cute ski masks (Iraqi guys) and the human suicide bombers (insurgents) blowing up the humans and cylons that the writers seemed to want the viewers to applaud and  say "oh maybe the iraq insurgents are right"

 What you were witnessing there was the bullshit done to our kids in these fucked up universities with this moral equivilence shit. I stopped watching the show after that when i realised it was leftist crap. Compared to babylon 5 and SG-1 which had a clear vision of good verses evil, it's garbage.

Posted by: Berserker at March 20, 2009 10:18 PM (gWHrG)

Excellent analysis. I stopped watching it right around the same time you did. Moral equivilance is wretched nonsense. I would have preferred a "Newhart" ending anyway. Say, Adama waking up and thinking "damn, that was some fucked up dream".

457 Ok Shizuki, I'm back from a quick game of red alert 3. To answer your questions, I saw no massing of equipment stripped from their ships, so yeah, it would seem that they left everything of a technological nature aboard the doomed ships. And yes, seeds are a technology, most all food crops have been developed through careful cultivation and genetic modifications to produce higher yields and to be disease resistant, just to name a few characteristics. I would wish anybody good luck with trying to feed themselves solely on the wild varieties of wheat, corn, or any other staple.

The alternative to their supplies running out would be to land the ships and convert them into factories, research facilities, use the generators to power construction equipment etc. The idea of just throwing away thousands of years worth of knowledge and advancement in favor of what you can carry in a backpack is retarded. 

As for making friends with the natives and learning to hunt from them, why? If you have a fleet worth of ships that more or less allow people to survive in space, they must have the capabilities to fabricate tools, weapons, housing etc. Hell its n ot that hard to make a advanced weapons, Ashe managed it in Evil Dead 3 and Kirk did a superb job in his battle against the Gorn captain.  Without their advanced weapons, the Galactica survivors would likely be killed by the primitives or possibly enslaved.  Primitive man was far stronger than any of these colonists.

As for your point about contributing to a society from the scraps of a vacation liner, the analogy is disengenous. The Galactica and many of the other vessels in the fleet are for all intents and purposes, factories in space. Hell, if they have the ability to mine and process tyrillium ore, they can mine and process other metals needed for a cities infrastructure. The ancient civilizations could work metal with only pots and stones, what could a crew aboard a battlestar be capable of?

The impression I was left with was that the survivors of the fleet just went and threw in the towel on themselves and their society. So in the end, the Cylons won the war of attrition. Their civilization continued while the human one rolled up into a ball and let a bear eat it.

A better idea would have been to return to Kobol and start anew there. It was the original home of mankind and had the added advantage of not having primitives to contend with.  Be that as it may, twas a silly ending to a mediocre show. So say we all.

458 Comments 1 through 456:  Yep.

459 "So the show was full of deus ex machina. So what? Did you notice everybody had Greek mythological names? Greek drama fits."

1) technical nitpick (but it does undercut your argument). "Apollo" was a Roman deity, as were the zodiac names of the colonies...actually, not a lot of Greek myth names in the show at all.

2)Deus Ex Machina in the singular form is weak enough in terms of writing and plot, but BSG had multiple layers of it that simply destroyed its credibility as a show.

460 The first part of the finale, up to the point the fleet's ships appear in Earth orbit, was everything I wanted from it.  Adama's reason for going after Hera was to prevent her from being used  against them, and the knowledge that Cavil would keep hunting them forever.   The rest of the show was a waste. The flashbacks to Caprica did not  add to the story.

Visually it remained spectacular.
\
The ending I would have prefered: The fight leads to the fusion of human and cylon civilizations, as shown earlier in the joint funeral, and when Lee Adama and the cylon centurions march into battle together.

461 My dream ending: The colonials come to Earth, but in the year 2005. Hiding in the asteroid belt they listen to media broadcasts and conclude that this planet is brutally oppressed by the evil dictator Bush. They decide to liberate Earth but all Vipers are destroyed when Bush´s fighters decline to dogfight and employ a secret weapons called a "guided missile" from beyond visual range. The Galactica is quickly conquered by Bush´s marines who make short work of the wimpy colonial marines. Meanwhile Helo and Baltar go on an undercover mission to recruit allies among the most downtrodden and desperate people known as "Palestinians", but they cut their heads off. The surviving crew recognizes their error and become legal citizens of the US. Galactica is repaired and and becomes to "United States Star Ship Enterprise". Bush then identifies the Cylons as a deadly threat and takes the war to them using another fiendish weapons called a "thermonuclear device with a yield of 30 megatons not your silly 50 kilotons". Cylons get wiped out. The Stars and Stripes wave over Kobol and the colonies. The End.

462 Here I am, again, your synopsis queen for this weekend's episode, oh, I mean season finale.

I've got just 5 words for you AJ - (Bruce willis in Armeggedon to Ben Affleck - aka ben afflicted): Thank God Its Finally Over!

5 frakin years.
Do you know how much I've changed in that time?
I went from late 30s to early 40s and now my bones are starting to ache in the morning and I've become my mother!

Why oh why does it take 5 years to do 4 season?
Oh, yeah, that thingy called a writers strike.

So, what do we have for the FINAL EPISODE to END ALL EPISODES?

well, we got the usual RDM stuff that even the UN seemed interested enough in to invite the guy, plus eick (aka ick), and Edward James Olmos (of the LaRaza mentality) to participate in a UN forum with whoooopi (swinging from a chandelier with a tassles on my nippies just for the hell of it) goldberg. The most substaintial moment at the UN debate (I don't know why they called it a debate, it wasn't as if the 3 from BSG were going up against.......Iran) was when EJO had everyone on their feet shouting "SO SAY WE ALL"

ok, now go out and fix the world.

whatever dude.

OK. Really, here goes the review.

Opening segment is good.
Shot their wad in special effects (I mean $$$ so get your mind out of the frakin...never mind) to a GOOD purpose.
Only 3 couples make it: Ellen and Tigh, Helo/Athena/Hera, and Gaius with Caprica.
They land 150,000 years ago on planet earth (this time ours) and name it earth.
Jake the dog was not left on New Caprica, thanks to a write in thread on the forums that said "Find Jake - Sign the Petition You Humps!, and became the President's first dog (who I guess became the one that interbred with wolves to become man's best friend). Romo Lampkin the lawyer with the ghost cat became President.

They decided NOT to build........anything.
Yep, they decided to go native!
No toilet paper, no toothpaste, no nothing.

Sent all the hardward into the sun to burn up so no relics.
Sammy was there in the goo bath to take all the ships into the sun where he  would be waiting for his love - Kara Thrace.

Yes, the Lee (apollo)/Kara (starbuck) shippers were devastated.

Laura dies.
Tori buys it in a very fulfilling way from Gallen and then goes off to  an island in the north where its cool and obviously ireland.
Racetrack manages to blow up the cylon colony after she's dead.
Cavil shoots himself in the CIC
The opera house arc finally gets settled........NICELY
The centurions who fought with the humans all had red painted sashes on their metal bodies. For their courage, they got the baseship and popped away with everyone hoping that the cycle of violence will end now that they've been given their freedom.

Speaking of popping away - yep, you guessed it. Kara Thrace - Gone in 60 Seconds! She was on loan anyways from God, and since she'd finished what she set out to do, He zapped her out of there. No twitching of the nose like Samantha, no purple smoke like Jeannie, just one minute she's talking to Apollo and as he's answering her, he realizes she's not there.

We find out back story about why they were touchy-feely which nicely closed that circuit.

The finale was good.
The plot holes were so big that stimulus money should be given to help patch them up. The effort can be called BSG: Unfinished Business.

The real entertainment came from the scifi.com/forums boards (pejoratively known as Skiffy). Wow. The fur seemed to be flying on the threads that started out: White People. White People. Mitochondrial Eve was from Africa. And you guessed it, the rants about racism and how the black characters were slaughtered, and that it was all whites that ended up being saved, and that white people were the ones that taught black cro-magnum women how to make fire so they could cook tastier food was an INSULT not to be born!

Eventually skiffy took that thread down as it was burning up bandwidth and soon SON OF that thread showed up as: BSG is Racist! That skiffy left up so I would head over to the boards and
get to read those before they get taken down, over time, as skiffy takes out the threads it deems objectionable. This thread was pretty funny when it came to the responses of the original poster.
I especially liked the icon of an animated avitar that had a stick man knocking his head repeatedly against the wall with the posting being: Mansquito goes fishing.

Now that may not seem funny reading about it here, but if you go to scifi.com and see it for yourself, you'll be cracking up.

Anther couple of good threads: "what BSG means to you" and the "Episode: Daybreak Part 2" which had a drinking game for various events (a la Tina Fey's portrayal of Sarah Palin). Now as a Palin fan, one might think I'd be outraged, but I find the lack of humor disturbing and so I support her and this game's rules.

Be prepared to see enough lefty postings you'll want to register and rebut. What a way to spend a Sunday!

Peace out!
(that's for those that watched what happened to the rdm/eick production team credit).
I'll be watching both ways as I stand in the middle of the street.

463 Hell its not that hard to make a advanced weapons, Ashe managed it in Evil Dead 3 and Kirk did a superb job in his battle against the Gorn captain.

--------------------------

OK, now you're just pulling my leg...

464 BSG was doomed the moment the writers tried to make the Cylons into anything more than implacable, homicidal fanatics.  The trouble is that their very first act in the miniseries - a full-on genocidal thermonuclear attack that wiped out 99.999999% of every human being in the universe - is so over-the-top with outrageously murderous fury that it makes the likes of Stalin, Mao, Hitler, and Kubilia Khan look like The Mouseketeers.  When you start out with the blood of several billion people on your hands, it gonna take a fuck of a lot of typewritten casuistry to rehabilitate you...

... which we got, in spades.

465 Oh, and can anyone explain where "Cylons" came from in the first place?  I mean, the whole fucking point of the series is a cautionary tale of mankind's hubris in creating intelligent life and enslaving it, yes? 

OK, so which human being(s) picked up their hammer and tongs and created, say, Colonel Tigh?  What planet was that guy standing on when he did so?

Kids, nothing in this lousy shitpile of fail ever made any sense.  The moment humanoid cylons were introduced, the writers painted themselves into a corner they just weren't up to resolving.

466 When you start out with the blood of several billion people on your hands, it gonna take a fuck of a lot of typewritten casuistry to rehabilitate you...... which we got, in spades.

Except we really didn't.  That's the most irritating part to me.  Did even the rebel cylons apologize for, you know, genocide?  Once?  Ever?  I mean, it's not like an apology would really be enough, but -not even- an apology? 

Think of this:  as far as I can tell, the skinjob cylons were -never- "enslaved", the supposed justification for the genocide.  The only ones we can assume were ever enslaved were centurions.  And guess what?  Up until the rebels rewired some centurion brains, the centurions were completely enslaved by the skinjob cylons.  Okay for them to enslave the centurions, but we deserve genocide without apology for it?  Uh huh.  This is the leftist mindset in spades.  Frakkin' Hippies, ARGH!

The whole thing was just totally retarded from the pilot on.

Qwinn

467 At first, the existence of the skinjob Cylons made sense; the logical assumption being that they were advanced biomechanical Cylons created for intelligence gathering, espionage, and sabotage.  Great.  Perfectly sensible.  Hard for a seven-foot robot to sneak about in Caprica City.  And it even made sense that the skinjobs would be in charge.  After all, in a society of computers, the latest and most advanced machines would naturally rule the roost.

But then they started to blur the lines between human and Cylon.  The formerly implacably hostile Cylons became more humanlike.  Why, soon enough, we learned that human and Cylon could even interbreed - and interfertility used to be a primary component of speciation.  But now we learned that humans and Cylons were about as different as breeds of dogs.  And the unofficial motto of the series became, "Stop trying to make sense out of any of this insane bullshit we're making up."

And the last point is crucial.  I think it's pretty clear that the reason the first two seasons were pretty darn decent and the latter two-ish were just fucking retarded was that the writers had a pretty clear idea of the story they were telling in the first two, and in later seasons they just started making it up as they went along.

Every contrived "revelation" and phony "cliffhanger" whelped another twist in the plot that needed to be explained and - increasingly - the writers simply weren't up to it.  Eventually, they just gave up explaining any of it, and we arrived at a situation where Kara "dies," is magically returned, and ultimately just disappears in a blinding flash of unimagination.  And that's hardly the worst of it; there were dozens of instances just in the finale where it's pretty clear the writers either just forgot the storylines they came up with ... or didn't give a fuck.  When Tigh, for example, explains to Tyrol, "if someone did to Ellen what she did to Cally, I'd kill him, too," the viewer (or presumably, writer) who's been paying attention says, "Uh, Colonel?  You killed Ellen once.  Because she collaborated with the Cylons.  Of which you are one."

The accumulated weight of all this "What the fuck!?!  What the fucking fuck?!!?" contrivance finally resulted in this giant shitpile of nonsense that no one could make heads or tails of. 

I enjoyed the first two seasons very much.  The last two were just garbage.

468

I was going to say pretty much what sansoucy said, but he or she did it much more eloquently than I could have.  Good show, san.

 

The first year, year and a half were pretty good.  Downright interesting.  Plenty of shoot-em-up, an enemy you could absolutely despise, good acting and good directing.

 

I just don't know why writers think they are so much more inteligent than the rest of us lowly hoo-mans.  But they do, and then they turn around and write stroies that are better suited for grade-school civics courses.  Unbelievabe.

 

Somebody needs to tell writers, directors, and the ScFi channel that Science Fiction is not fantasy - It is Science.  And it is Fiction.  It is not horror (I hate horror) and it is not Alice in Wonderland.

469 @450: in fairness to the current version, the original BSG also had a mystical side, complete with angels and an evil Count Eblis.

Maybe the problem with Starbuck as Divine Being is that she was just too damned profain. It's like having Tony Curtiss play an ancient Roman: "You'se guys" said in Brooklyn accent simply doesn't come across as "ancient Roman" as an aristocratic Brit accent. Some tomboy chick that likes to get sloshed and make out with her fiance's brother, or chew on a cigar, likewise doesn't comes across as suitably "divine."

470

 

Most of you missed the point. You continuously miss the point. Battlestar Galactica got it right, at the end. The point. Not the finale, I grant you that, it was problematic, but they got the point.

Head Baltar and Head Six summarize it at the end.

"Commercialism, decadence, technology run amok"

You may call it liberal propaganda if you wish. You may claim that it is a curse and betrayal of the true BSG. You may even call it bad. But it's also quite true.

From a spiritual, intellectual and more ascetic point of view, this is true. Technology is not Truth. Neither is survival. Neither is a televisions series. However, Life is Truth. Living is Truth. Dying is eventually also Truth.

471 Congratulations, Iniovan. Your mindless dribble managed to top that of the BSG finale's.

472 However, Life is Truth. Living is Truth. Dying is eventually also Truth.

Pissing in the Punch Bowl is truth.

So what's your fracking point?

473 Life is Truth. Living is Truth. Dying is eventually also Truth.

A pity this post isn't parody, since the above pseudospiritual batshit could have been found by the Final Five carved in mystic runes in the Temple Of Kornhohl; it's perfectly emblematic of the "sounds good but ultimately nothing but felgercarb" style that characterized seasons three and four.

Perfect pitch.

474

I was dissapointed in the ending but after much reflection and discussion, this is my conclusion:

Starbuck is the Harbinger of Death because she leads them to earth, whereGod intervenes and causes everyone to lose every bit of rationality and common sense.This enables them to make a decision which ensures that all of the Colonists die in short order from malnutrition and disease ... EXCEPT for Hera. Her immune system helps her get through the first couple years.A band of indigenous hunters either decimates Hera's family as they represent a thread to game and forage resources, or adopts her after finding her family dead from hunger and disease.Shortly after puberty, Hera begins pumping out babies with the better immune system.  She dies before age 25.
In this way, Hera becomes Mitochondrial Eve.

475 I second the nomination of Dollhouse for the next commentable TV show. It keeps getting better. Joss Whedon is God.

476 Of all the ending to rip off The hitchhikers Guild the Galaxy?!? Really? Human are the descendants of Humans from other planet mostly worthless middle managers which lets be honest is most of the Fleet.

477 Everyone dies within the year from a case of the DTs after abandoning anything that resembles  a still.

478 Watched the ending last night.  At least they ended the series with no possibility of a sequel (cavemen in space?)  The anti-technology, can't-we-all-get-along, Gaia-friendly ending was inevitable given the leftist biases that leaked out during the last several seasons.  Can't make a leopard change his spots or a left-wing writer understand that knee-jerk liberalism doesn't make good entertainment.

I haven't seen it mentioned in these posts, but the writers "borrowed" heavily from several science fiction sources.  Had the writers stayed true to their sources they could have produced a more satisfying series and ending.

The whole robot-vs-man meme is straight out of Saberhagen's "Beserker" series of novels.  The battlestar crashing into the colony and disgorging it's rescue team is almost a dead-on copy of the Stone Place battle from the novels.  Saberhagen imagined the Beserkers as anti-life, implacable enemies that couldn't be reasoned with and had to be destroyed if life of any kind was to survive.  This is the way BSG began in the earliest episodes, and in my opinion when the writers veered from this theme the show began to run off the rails.

479 this so called ending absolutely sucked @ss. many here who have said it. 3800 and change people volunteer to give up ALL technology and go live like hippies?. hell even hippies want to see a doctor when they get sick.

go live with the natives? give me a f@#$ing break. people of that era would have seen ANY stranger as a threat and competition for available resources. most of the colonists would have been killed in short order.

all those ships that could have been used with earths resources to rebuild some sort of civilisation are sent into the sun.

this could go on and on and on.


ron moore should be shot.

480 the 'swear off technology' is a crock.

how soon till you tire using that rock as a hammer and figure out you can attach a stick to it with a strip or two of rawhide..   and it goes from there..

481 Only a pampered Hollyweird jagoff - who's never spent five minutes thirsty or hungry or cold - could possibly find in living as primitive man something romantic or desirable.  It's as if civilization has to reach a certain critical mass of total ease and leisure before it starts to generate idiots who imagine throwing it out and starting over is The Right Thing.

I think that a useful exercise would have been to drop Ron Moore onto the Serengeti Plain and let him live off the land for a month or so - you know, the carefree life of someone who's divested himself of all the awful baggage and stifling trappings of civilization.

Then, after he'd been converted into a few pounds of lion shit, they could have hired a writer with half a brain.

482 A month? I smell another hollyweird remake of "The Naked Prey"!

Ron Moore wouldn't last a week there, let alone a Month! Jackals would of finished him off by the Second day and the vultures would've cleaned off the rest a few hours later.

BS5 did have many poorly made episodes and the SFx looks very dated, but overall had a complete story that's miles above BSG. The main creator (JMS) of BS5 told everybody that he had a FIVE year planned story and he did it. Moore made some allusions to a "5 year arc" at the start, but must of slammed his head too often into a keg at one of his many binges during the strike and forgot about it. Hell, he crawled out of "Star Trek: the Next Generation" and its other off shoots and stated that he was tired of what he was doing at conventions as well as the extras in the DVDs in the first season of BSG. That alone should of been the true tip-off to his mental state when he made this mess.

BSG had hours of emo-agnst between actors and a few seconds of special effects to remind the viewer that it's taking place in space. The finale did have some of the most amazing CG for any tv show but without connecting it to the people behind the weapons onboard, it was all shallow and took out any tension.

And yeah, I'm with some of the commentators. Where the hell was the Future Weapons in this emo opera?! Fusion yielding warheads? "Eraser" style hand weapons? You know, those magnetic railguns we're testing now? How about a warp weapon they could pop into the cylon ships? Hell, just warping into the center of those ships with a nuke would be enough.

Moore declared that he would never repeat his past works and for the most part he did. -A BIG but is coming- But he couldn't get out of his pathetic efforts of breaking away on the engagments of space battles with ships blasting at each other from a few thousand feet away? BS5 had the most realistic battle during the third season (only to fuck it up near the end of it) where you had two fleets firing at each other from Thousands of MILES away and you got to see it! Most of what happened  I wouldn't doubt would have similarities to battles in our history.

No originality seeped out of every episode as typical of most of those  hollyweird tree hugging suckers. I have no doubt that if I ever watched any day time soap, I'd see a story pop up similar to it.

483

No one has smentioned this, and I want to know what it means:

 

What is the significance of the GUILLOTINE in the scene when Admiral Adama is looking around the empty Galactica one final time?

A guillotine??

484

You know to hear some of you, you'd think the survivors gave up an ongoing Disney cruise to live naked in dung.  Life on those ships sucked.  It sucked more as the series progressed and there were fewer ships and less room.  Remember Dogville on the hangar deck?  Those people were living in a pigpen, fighting over scraps of food, couldn't even guess the bathroom situation.

Now all those people had a chance to live free in the sun and fresh air.  Hard work?  Yes.  Impossible no.  The Amish do fine.  So do societies around the world.  The survivors brought supplies and equipment, and they had knowledge.  They would've lived long and been fine for it.

485 They walked off into a primitive steppe carrying nothing but the clothes on their backs and a single rucksack full of who-knows-what.  Into the sun was sent all the metal refining and agricultural technology and power-generation facilities they had.

I take more stuff with me on an overnight hike in New England, and I'm within easy range of a functioning civilization willing to expend all sorts of resources to rescue me if I get into trouble or take sick.

The point is that there's this hippy-dippy theory out there that living as a primitive is some sort of bucolic wonderland, with little curly-haired girls dancing through fields of lollipops tending their herd of magic unicorns.

The very end of the program, in contrast, contained a perhaps subconscious nugget of pure truth.  The magazine article Six and Baltar are reading about "Mitochondrial Eve" (IE, Hera...) mentions that the bones of a young woman who was the ancestor of humanity had been found in Tanzania.

A young woman.

Translation:  Hera died of the plague when she was 18 years old.  That's the reality of primitive life; it was nasty and brutish and short.

486 Total failure, then killed the hot indian chick too...bastards

487

I have to wonder if the writers didn't lose their way during the writers' strike.

 

The alternative is that there isn't an original thought lurking in their collective empty heads.  Condemning the human race to 149,950 years of short life-spans, starvation, plague and disease is the writers' idea of a good ending?

 

On the survival thing?  Where are the people of Galactica supposed to get thier seeds to plant things with?  Where are their farming implements?  They don't even have a plow.  And if memory serves me correctly, the Bronze Age didn't even happen for another 145,000 years (??).

 

Frankly, I feel duped.  Taken advantage of.  Conned.  The only reason I kept watching it is because I kept expecting it to return to its first-year-quality.

488

264 So, um, what would have been a better ending?

 

Ditch the goofy concept of not building a city. They build their city and keep their technology, while also sending a few groups out to the four corners. They name their city "Atlantis."

The end.

You still get all the wonderful mythological element of explaining the appearance of homo sapiens, but without the liberal and unrealistic claptrap of a stone age utopia. And the viewer knows exactly what happens to them.

 

489 "From a spiritual, intellectual and more ascetic point of view, this is true. Technology is not Truth. Neither is survival. Neither is a televisions series. However, Life is Truth. Living is Truth. Dying is eventually also Truth."

Congratulations on managing to say absolutely nothing.

Truest part of the finale:

Adama throwing up on himself...

...that's basically what the series ended up doing.

490 A few points:

1) In a show where the central conflict was 'The stuff humans made decide to exterminate them in a firey holocaust and chase them across the galaxy to finish the job' to think that they wouldn't consider abandoning technology is a complete cognitive dissonance. 'The stuff we make kills us; let's stop making this stuff!' is logical and rational.

2) It's not a liberal ending. 'Happy ending' does not mean liberal. The idea is not that technology will destroy us; the idea is that we have the capacity for self-destruction, and we have the choice as to whether or not to execute that capacity. It's not about 'peace and love' but about -avoiding mass extinction' through our own hands.

3) The series was -never- truly about man vs. technology. The 'technology' that was the source of the conflict was humanized, given human thoughts and motivations. Cavil wasn't a machine, he was an envious 'human' who -wanted- to be a 'machine'. He was a skinjob who wanted to be a toaster. The show was always about fanaticism, about persuing ancient vendettas. The truth is the show was about the troubles we face today, and has from the beginning. It was -always- a mirror as to our own humanity, and the ending resolved that mirror.

4) Head-Six was -always- talking to Baltar about 'God's plan' from the very beginning. The only shock wasn't that she turned out to -actually be- an instrument of 'God's will', but that Caprica could see her.


Seriously, some of these comments make me wonder if we've been watching the same show this time. It was a -great- ending, and a worthy end. All the grit and grime and blood of the series ended in a redemption, that despite all the flaws of humanity, they survived.

491 WTF no no nooooooo!
1) BULLLLLL No self respecting interstellar race gives up their FTL!!! Oh Boo freakin Hoo we screwed up A.I. three times over the last couple thousand years. GET OVER YOUSELVES! It is completly ILLOGICAL to give up like that. Your talking about A.I. here!! Artifical intelligence! ITS NOT GOING TO BE EASY!!!

2)YOU are assuming there is no future in technology! That if we continue down that road we WILL destroy ourselves. THE FUTURE IS NOT SET IN STONE!! Whos to say technology isnt  the next evolution of nature! The first challenge was to recah the top of the food chain. Next Acheive sentience. Next control your enviroment (that includes learning from Mother Nature!). Next Climb the Kardashev scale UNTIL U ACHIVE FTL! And liberals are just more concerned with the here and now. Thats why im a independent.

3) "The troubles we face today" Lemme guess your one of those who thinks armageddon is right around the corner! WELL SO WHAT! THATS LIFE! ITS ENDS SOMEWHERE FOR EVERYONE! GET OVER IT! I dont know what this series was about anymore! It started out great and ended like Cavil!

4)GODS PLAN WAS BULLLL!

Despite all the flaws of humanity they still managed to put themsleves back about a billion years because they were tired Why didnt Cavil start blasting everyone in the room? Why did they throw away the best viper pilot in the universe? Why did they give up their FTL!?!?!?!? Frack this series it rates bellow the original and its all RONALD D. MOORE's fault! HERES HOPING OBAMA CAN DO BETTER!!!! IM TAKING OFF WITH THE RED STRIPE CENTURIONS!!!!

492

This will probably never get read because I had to wait until the show was up on hulu.

But as far back as the moment the first of the final 5 were revealed, I had typed here on this very blog that "All Along The Watchtower" meant that Bob Dylan is a Cylon, and that maybe we all are Cylons.  At least our female chromosome is, if Hera is Eve.

493 Oh, and yes the parallels with Hitchhikers (Life The Universe and Everything, actually) are pretty obvious.  Mankind didn't evolve from monkeys; the Golgafrinchans just took everything over.  That's why Earth The Computer never would have actually computed the Ultimate Question.

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