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Woodward Slams Bush's Errors in Leadership

I don't believe everything this guy says, of course. Not only does he have a bias, but everyone he interviews has an axe to grind. Especially Colin Powell, who earned three of his stars simply by kissing ass and resume-padding.

But -- a lot of this jibes with my own understanding of Bush as a frequently disengaged and often weak and passive leader.

1. Presidents set the tone. Don't be passive or tolerate virulent divisions.

In the fall of 2002, Bush personally witnessed a startling face-off between National Security Adviser Condoleezza Rice and Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld in the White House Situation Room after Rumsfeld had briefed the National Security Council on the Iraq war plan. Rice wanted to hold onto a copy of the Pentagon briefing slides, code-named Polo Step. "You won't be needing that," Rumsfeld said, reaching across the table and snatching the Top Secret packet away from Rice -- in front of the president. "I'll let you two work it out," Bush said, then turned and walked out. Rice had to send an aide to the Pentagon to get a bootlegged copy from the Joint Chiefs of Staff.

Bush should never have put up with Rumsfeld's power play. Instead of a team of rivals, Bush wound up with a team of back-stabbers with long-running, poisonous disagreements about foreign policy fundamentals.

2. The president must insist that everyone speak out loud in front of the others, even -- or especially -- when there are vehement disagreements.

During the same critical period, Vice President Cheney was urging Secretary of State Colin Powell to consider seriously the possibility that Iraq might be connected to the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks. Powell found the case worse than ridiculous and scornfully concluded that Cheney had what Powell termed a "fever." (In private, Powell used to call the Pentagon policy shop run by Undersecretary of Defense Douglas J. Feith, who shared Cheney's burning interest in supposed ties between al-Qaeda and Iraq, a "Gestapo office.")

Powell was right that to conclude that Saddam Hussein and Osama bin Laden did not work together. But Cheney and Powell did not have this crucial debate in front of the president -- even though such a discussion might have undermined one key reason for war. Cheney provided private advice to the president, but he was rarely asked to argue with others and test his case. After the invasion, Cheney had a celebratory dinner with some aides and friends. "Colin always had major reservations about what we were trying to do," Cheney told the group as they toasted Bush and laughed at Powell. This sort of derision undermined the administration's unity of purpose -- and suggests the nasty tone that can emerge when open debate is stifled by long-running feuds and personal hostility.

...

10. The president should embrace transparency. Some version of the behind-the-scenes story of what happened in his White House will always make it out to the public -- and everyone will be better off if that version is as accurate as possible.

On March 8, 2008, Hadley made an extraordinary remark about how difficult it has proven to understand the real way Bush made decisions. "He will talk with great authority and assertiveness," Hadley said. " 'This is what we're going to do.' And he won't mean it. Because he will not have gone through the considered process where he finally is prepared to say, 'I've decided.' And if you write all those things down and historians get them, [they] say, 'Well, he decided on this day to do such and such.' It's not true. It's not history. It's a fact, but it's a misleading fact."


Bush always seemed to me to be determined to be the anti-Clinton. Where Clinton frequently came to the public to ask for support and malign his opponents (that would be you), Bush had the notion that people didn't want to hear so much about politics, and so he would not trouble us with them very often.

He's right-- we don't want to hear about these disputes. But we need to.

This impulse led to a Reign-not-Rule style of governance, as used to be said of the British kings -- reign, showing a firm hand at the top, without using that hand to actually rule. Except in the most pressing cases (such as after 9/11), he followed this sort of above-the-fray style, which led many of us to cry out in exasperation "Why doesn't he defend himself, or attack the Democrats, for once?!!?"

He also seems to have followed this scheme in managing his own advisors and officials. Staying above it, letting things work themselves out.

That's not a good style, I don't think.

One can doubt Woodward all one likes, but one can't ignore the fact he never vetoed anything (until the last couple of years) and never fired anyone important.

Those are marks of someone passively allowing things to "work themselves out" rather than actively getting involved and working them out himself.

Posted by: Ace at 04:25 PM



Comments

1 Hey, its Woodward.  The guy has a tendency to just make shit up.

Posted by: toby928 at January 15, 2009 04:46 PM (PD1tk)

2 I look forward to Obie's leadership style.

Step 1.  Take phone call from Richard Daley. 
Step 2.  Do what Daley says.
Step 3.  Take phone call from Tony Rezko.
Step 4.  Do what Rezko says.

Posted by: joeindc44 at January 15, 2009 04:50 PM (QxSug)

3

Step 1.  Take phone call from Richard Daley. 
Step 2.  Do what Daley says.
Step 3.  Take phone call from Tony Rezko.
Step 4.  Do what Rezko says.

Step 5. If they disagree, call Ayers.
Step 6. Do what Ayers says.

*eats*

Posted by: Grue in the Attic at January 15, 2009 04:54 PM (k58xs)

4 You're right. As a fiscal conservative, a libertarian, or any other POV but strictly pursuing Islamic badguys, Bush sucked. Did one strength make up for all the failure? Individual call.

Posted by: dr kill at January 15, 2009 04:55 PM (JWAjn)

5 Sorry, Ace. You lost me at Woodward.

I'll trust you can adequately discern your own opinions about Bush's leadership style without the semi-fiction from a bookseller as the opening.

Go with what you know, not with what Woodward "knows."

Posted by: AnonymousDrivel at January 15, 2009 04:57 PM (sI5Ho)

6

The biggest problem I have personally is the fact that yes, Bush was not a very good president, but I think he was bad for the exact opposite reason most of my acquaintances (about 75% Liberals) do. Many of the things I think he did well they hate him for, and many of the things I think he could have done much better they consider "his few good moments", and then there are the things he did that everyone hated.

Frustrating to say the least. "Yes, I agree Mr. Lib, Bush was a pretty bad president. But not for the reasons you think he was."

*eats*

Posted by: Grue in the Attic at January 15, 2009 04:57 PM (k58xs)

7 It pisses me off that people still get away with the Al Qaeda and Saddam were like oil and water routine. From all the research done from the Iraqi Intelligence records after the war (See Stephen Hayes at the Weekly Standard for more on this) we know this is a goddamn lie. They DID have contacts. Were they weekly bowling buddies? No. Did they have contacts? Yes.

That's what frustrated me so much about Bush. The Dems and their media allies would flat out LIE about things, Bush wouldn't defend himself, and the common wisdom became "Bush lied, people died."

I know Presidents have better things to do that to be forced to constantly set the historical record straight, but when they lost these battles, they ended up losing all leadership momentum.
 

Posted by: Dkshideler at January 15, 2009 05:05 PM (kb2q5)

8 Given his past er, inventions, I'm highly skeptical of any off Woodwards "inside information" stories he likes to tell. Let's just say that nobody can confirm or disprove what he claims, and he makes money at it.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at January 15, 2009 05:06 PM (PQY7w)

9 I've always called Bush's behavior the "Phillip II" syndrome.

Phillip II of Spain ruled an empire that was the envy of  all the other monarchs of Europe.  Most of them were doing their very best to weaken Spain and to make it look as bad as possible in order to get others to side against Spain.  It didn't matter that without Phillip, the Turks would have overrun the Mediterranean; the propaganda was relentless.  The English and Dutch (insurgents seeking independence from Spain ) in particular did their best to push it along.

Phillip's response to the propaganda portraying him as a blood thirsty Tyrant?  "To respond to those accusations would be beneath my dignity".  That's why to this day, people still believe that Spanish inquisition was much worse than any of the witch or heretic torturing and burning in France, Italy, Germany or Britain itself.

Posted by: jmchez at January 15, 2009 05:14 PM (wwAl7)

10 He also seems to have followed this scheme in managing his own advisors and officials. Staying above it, letting things work themselves out.

Not sure which is worse, the "hands-off" W management style or FDR's Machiavellian "here's a couple of shivs, you guys work it out, but don't get blood on the drapes" style.

Posted by: IllTemperedCur at January 15, 2009 05:15 PM (InMdt)

11 Why do things like massive tax cuts, great SCOTUS picks (minus the initial hiccup), terrific moves for the pro-life crowd, not a single dead Amercain on our own soil since 9-11, etc., always get completely ignored by people when they judge the Bush presidency at this all-too-early date? And I hate to say it, but I'm asking the question of Ace as much as I am of the moppets in the media.

Yeah, the guy did a lot of crappy, stupid and boneheaded things (the whole border situation is a massive, massive irritation to me), but he sure as hell did a lot of amazing and wonderful things tha vast majority of us should be head-over-heels grateful for and, yet, all people do is bitch bitch bitch about the man...Christ, enough already.

Posted by: ECM at January 15, 2009 05:16 PM (q3V+C)

12 We've all been frustrated by Bush's failure to respond to his critics, but all White House's are filled with these sort of back hallway catfights and I'm with several others here in not exactly believing Woodward to have the best reputation for truth telling.

Posted by: Fred at January 15, 2009 05:18 PM (J5aoU)

13 I hate to say it this way but this passivity is very common among ex-alcoholics. the whole "Let go/Let God" thing.

Calvin Coolidge governed with a theory of avoidance of action because 90% of things work themselves out. But that was a philosophy of governance and not a way to avoid disrupting his personal peace.

The War on Terror is truly his one shining area in a dismal record. But even there, he allowed himself to needlessly delay action in Iraq via UN approval and almost lost the war by dithering on the changes that led to the surge.

His passive/rollover political style destroyed the Republican party by destroying the reasons to vote Republican.

President Elect Present's similar passive style will deepen the problems in this country. His "economic plan" is just a grab bag of special interest spending and potential graft. Just the thing a weak clown with no center but who wants his buddies to like him would fashion.

Posted by: rinseandspit at January 15, 2009 05:22 PM (ao5cQ)

14 Woodward is a class A #1 asshole. He knew that Armitage was talking Plame smack way before anyone else and he know that Armitage didn't have the balls and say so and left a whole lot of people with their dicks flapping in the wind.

Rumor has it the only reason Woodward went public is because everyone in the press knew about Armitage and Woodward and Woody's name was on a list of witnesses to be called by the defense and he would have looked like in public the asshole he is.

Posted by: Topsecretk9 at January 15, 2009 05:23 PM (SjbHx)

15 What do you mean three of his stars?  I can't imagine anyone who had such limited command ability and leadership ability being promoted so fast and so far.  Was Powell a brigade commander, a division commander?  He was in fact a political pogue who was promoted for his political connections rather than his military abilities.

Posted by: Thomas Jackson at January 15, 2009 05:23 PM (0Qynq)

16 Fuck Woodward!

Posted by: MCPO Airdale at January 15, 2009 05:24 PM (wba6w)

17
Right said Fred (#12). Also agree with ECM.

Bush had to create new problem-solving templates for many of the issues associated with his presidency. How to deal with Muslim aggression was just one of several. That being the case, mistakes were inevitable. It was a very tough time to be president: external circumstances were very difficult, not least because some were unprecedented. And he is only human after all. On balance, it's too soon to evaluate his presidency in terms of overall success or failure. It may be too soon for a long time to come. I'm inclined to think that he will eventually be judged favorably, but that's just my sense of things. I also believe that going to war in Iraq and Afghanistan was vital to the defense and continuation of our civilization.

Add to the list of things he did right his aid for Africa. Because of the decisions he and he alone made, tens of millions of lives have been saved. Think about that: tens of millions.

As for Woodward: I don't read him because I don't believe him.

Posted by: Johnny Too Bad at January 15, 2009 05:30 PM (8gFKI)

18 15: Good point. Can anyone point to one brilliant victory that can be attributed to Powell?

And is a "doctrine" that says it's good to outnumber the enemy by a lot really all that freaking "brilliant," after all? Hell, I just made my way as high as 1st LT on the Field Artillery, and O could have told you that.

Posted by: CoolCzech at January 15, 2009 05:34 PM (iafWn)

19 I hate to say it this way but this passivity is very common among ex-alcoholics.

You should hate to say it, because you're wrong. I say this a recovering alcoholic myself. Note, in this regard, that there is no such thing as an "ex-alcoholic."

The fact that he was able to deal with his alcoholism makes me respect him all the more. It shows his strength of character, is one of several reasons I voted for him, twice.

Posted by: Johnny Too Bad at January 15, 2009 05:35 PM (8gFKI)

20 Damn - edit "O" to "I."

Posted by: CoolCzech at January 15, 2009 05:35 PM (iafWn)

21 I like your analysis better than Woodward's, Ace. Bush was his own worst enemy. He thought he could play nice and "set a new tone" and the dems and the media would would do the same. Epic fail on his part.

Posted by: ol-dirty-/b/tard at January 15, 2009 05:40 PM (IoUF1)

22 Isn't Woodward the guy that interviewed Cheney's parrot on it's deathbed and learned Dick was planning an invasion of Canada right before 9/11 happened?

Posted by: CoolCzech at January 15, 2009 05:40 PM (iafWn)

23 Woodward, like the rest of his buddies, has perfect 20-20 hindsight.

Posted by: GarandFan at January 15, 2009 05:42 PM (237hA)

24

those who don't leak are always the villains of woodward's stories-explains powell always being a hero.

his style deserves criticism but not based on anecdotes where colin powell is the hero (or rumsfeld the snarling villain). 

 

Posted by: ed at January 15, 2009 05:43 PM (Urhve)

25 @19

I don't want to hit this too hard because to quit alcohol or drugs for an addict is very difficult and requires a lot of effort.

But I have been around alcoholics and recovering alcoholics and almost to a man/woman they ran away from any serious conflict. Not all. Most.

So, Bush's passive style was unfortunately no surprise.


Posted by: rinseandspit at January 15, 2009 05:47 PM (ao5cQ)

26 25: Bush started not one, but TWO wars. I don't think that "running from conflict" really applies to him...

Posted by: CoolCzech at January 15, 2009 05:50 PM (iafWn)

27

Reagan's first admin. was fractious, but it worked ok.  His second was more businesslike but went off the rail a bit.

Woodward doesn't even mention Bush's changing course with the Surge, the most important thing in the second term.  To him, the only good course change was surrender.

Posted by: Ralph L at January 15, 2009 05:51 PM (r5/L0)

28 Many of you incorrectly define mistake.  A difference of opinion is not a mistake.  Once again the cognitive dissonance in the people who criticize Bush and praise Reagan as the greatest conservative ever still amazes me.  

Posted by: polynikes at January 15, 2009 05:53 PM (m2CN7)

29

How many important people did Clinton fire?

Just askin.

Posted by: Micheal at January 15, 2009 05:53 PM (iggjG)

30 CoolCzech: "And is a 'doctrine' that says it's good to outnumber the enemy by a lot really all that freaking 'brilliant,' after all?"

Yeah. I always laugh when I read about the "Powell Doctrine." An eyeroll invariably follows.

Is there not a military man leading a group greater than zero not wishing for overwhelming numerical/asset superiority in the battlefield? Powell seems to have triumphed over the bar of lowered expectations considering this would be the signature military philosophy attributed to him.

A boot camp grunt could figure out such a "doctrine." Preface it with a general's name and some capitalization and it's, well, inspired.

Posted by: AnonymousDrivel at January 15, 2009 05:54 PM (sI5Ho)

31 I'm highly skeptical because this article is from Bob Woodward; but, if we are to take his books as fact, this article contradicts many passages in his books (I've read them all) in which Bush is too "hands-on". This passage also seems to contradict David Frum and many others' accounts of Bush.

Personally, I would prefer a president that lets his Cabinet & advisers do their jobs than one who micromanages (like FDR, Johnson, etc.). Did Bush fail to achieve a balance between these two? Depends upon who you believe...

Now, if you want to criticize Bush for his failure to effectively communicate his ideas to the public, I'm absolutely with you there; but this, not so much..   


Posted by: '80sBaby at January 15, 2009 05:57 PM (zmiSr)

32
AnonymousDrivel:

Old joke. The secretary of defense is meeting with head of the Joint Chiefs to find out what he needs to go to war. He is opening his mouth to speak when the general says, "I need 350,000 more men than you planning to give me. Next question."

Posted by: Johnny Too Bad at January 15, 2009 05:59 PM (8gFKI)

33 Also as I posted else where, this is as credible as having a radical atheist tell us ten errors in the Pope's leadership.

Posted by: polynikes at January 15, 2009 05:59 PM (m2CN7)

34

How many important people did Clinton fire?

Ron Brown, in a literal sense.

The White House Travel Office.

A bunch had to quit from scandal.

Posted by: Ralph L at January 15, 2009 06:00 PM (r5/L0)

35 How many important people did Clinton fire?

Does Ron Brown count?

Posted by: toby928 at January 15, 2009 06:01 PM (PD1tk)

36 dammit ralph

Posted by: toby928 at January 15, 2009 06:01 PM (PD1tk)

37 RE #11 I absolutely agree with your assessment.

Posted by: '80sBaby at January 15, 2009 06:02 PM (zmiSr)

38 I don't think his style was the problem. Most of his cabinet agencies ran pretty well, all things considered. He's just such a damn decent guy, he doesn't like to make people uncomfortable. Okay, there are problems with this characteristic in leaders, but he also didn't micromanage like LBJ or Clinton, or wallow in eternal passivity like Carter. He was a positive/passive, or as it relates to national defense, positive/active, president. In this respect he wasn't all that different from Reagan.

Furthermore, Woodward is not someone whose opinion I trust and who ALWAYS has a damn axe to grind, sometimes his own and his "reputation." Also, if he's such a damn canary in a coal mine, how come Sir Bob wrote that book lauding Bush a few years back, Bush At War.

Thanks anyway, Ace. But I will wait about 25 years before deciding what I think of Bush II. And I won't be consulting fiction like Woodward's when I do it.

Posted by: Fresh Air at January 15, 2009 06:07 PM (gQlSm)

39

Also as I posted else where, this is as credible as having a radical atheist tell us ten errors in the Pope's leadership.

So a liberal criticizing Bush has no credibility.  And a conservative who praises Reagan, while criticizing Bush has cognitive dissonance... Got it!

Posted by: pirate of the perineum at January 15, 2009 06:09 PM (YLJck)

40 Powell, the guy who knew Armitage was the leaker and let Libby hang.  Honorable man, I'm sure.


Posted by: MarkD at January 15, 2009 06:13 PM (qZFLO)

41 Johnny Too Bad@32,

Heh.

And it's when the general is able to make do without and succeed that one deserves an attribution of doctrine.

Aside: For all the faults assigned to Rumsfeld, he understood what it meant to go to war with the military you have; yet, by voicing that true observation, he was unfairly mocked. (I support, respect, and have defended Rumsfeld, so my bias shows. But he was deserving of a Doctrine.)

Posted by: AnonymousDrivel at January 15, 2009 06:14 PM (sI5Ho)

42 You can find multiple instances from the 1980s in which famous conservatives complain that Reagan "isn't conservative enough". My, how things have changed... 

Posted by: '80sBaby at January 15, 2009 06:17 PM (zmiSr)

43 Hurray, more Bush bashing.  As if we hadn't had enough already.  Thanks Ace.

Posted by: Sigh at January 15, 2009 06:22 PM (xYclK)

44 Yeah, since Karl Marx was just elected to the presidency, maybe we can wait a couple of weeks before kneecapping the guy.

Posted by: Fresh Air at January 15, 2009 06:29 PM (gQlSm)

45 I'll simply say once more that if this occupant of the White House shows a fraction of the decency, honesty, and integrity Bush displayed, the country will be well served.

Posted by: ironfgrampa at January 15, 2009 06:34 PM (ud5dN)

46 I had no idea Bush had so many fanboys.

Posted by: piate of the perineum at January 15, 2009 06:37 PM (pz0CV)

47

tax cuts, great SCOTUS picks (minus the initial hiccup), terrific moves for the pro-life crowd, not a single dead Amercain on our own soil since 9-11, etc., always get completely ignored by people when they judge the Bush presidency at this all-too-early date? And I hate to say it, but I'm asking the question of Ace as much as I am of the moppets in the media.

All too early date? WTF? Does he have a bunch of time left? Gonna do all sorts of different shit his last few days in office?

Hell we've got almost 8 years retrospective on some of his time in office. Is it too soon to criticize Clinton yet?

What about Obama? Mums the word till 2016 or later?

As for the rest of it - the SCOTUS picks weren't "great", they were decent. Acceptable. Not great.

He refused to take on the jurisprudence issue, dodged it. He TRIED his damn best to stick us with Harriet Miers, if he had his way.

As for "pro life", what has he done? Not a ton. Not that he could do anything anyway... that's (at the moment) a judicial issue.

Posted by: Entropy at January 15, 2009 06:42 PM (cok/k)

48 The thing most important to Woodward is...Woodward.  Nothing worse than an old fading whore trying to tart herself back into relevance.

Posted by: apb at January 15, 2009 06:45 PM (4Ac/Q)

49 How many important people did Clinton fire?

50 state attorneys, as I recall. And the MSM was cool with it. Of course, when Bush did it, the MSM had a cow.

Posted by: OregonMuse at January 15, 2009 06:45 PM (FO+YO)

50 Can anyone point to one brilliant victory that can be attributed to Powell?

Oh, I can, I can!

"Not being Wesley Clark."

After that, though, I'm kinda stumped.

Qwinn

Posted by: Qwinn at January 15, 2009 06:49 PM (/y1J0)

51 I'm still reading John Bolton's book, but at this point I wouldn't automatically take as gospel what Colin Powell or his fans in the bureaucracy have to say on things regarding the Bush administration.

Posted by: Mark at January 15, 2009 06:49 PM (LrnKi)

52

You can find multiple instances from the 1980s in which famous conservatives complain that Reagan "isn't conservative enough". My, how things have changed... 

Yeah sure. Chart that on a graph... maybe in 20 years we'll be pining for the Grand Old days of right-wing nuts and conservative stalwarts like John McCain and Lindsay Graham.

What's your point? We're fucked? Going down the shithole?

Tadashii desu. Nihongo wo narainasai, tomodachi-tachi.

Posted by: Entropy at January 15, 2009 07:03 PM (cok/k)

53

So we're going to replace a "frequently disengaged and often weak and passive leader" with a never-has-been-engaged, weak and passive by design lightworker.  What could possibly go wrong?

Hope.  Or is it Change.  Hard to tell on this one.

Posted by: DocJ at January 15, 2009 07:06 PM (2HZhO)

54

With any luck, by the time the USA truly goes to shit the man with the most guns will rule Mexico.

We can hop the border and start a militia and sieze a town.

I say we call it the Metal Militia. I'll be El Guapo. And our state flag will be the Jolly Roger, and our national anthem 'Flash of the Blades' by Iron Maiden.

We'll drink Val-U-Rite margaritas, kill jobos on sieta, plow the horses, give chocolates to the fields, and ride out of town on the senioritas come their quinceaneras.

Posted by: Entropy at January 15, 2009 07:18 PM (cok/k)

55 Is there not a military man leading a group greater than zero not wishing for overwhelming numerical/asset superiority in the battlefield? Powell seems to have triumphed over the bar of lowered expectations considering this would be the signature military philosophy attributed to him.

That's not really an accurate description of the "Powell doctrine".  A better way to put it is "when you go to war you go with everything you've got, and you go with clear objectives.  If you're not willing to do that, you should think about not going to war."

Which I think is pretty reasonable as far as it goes.  To be sure you don't always have the political situation you want, and sometimes you go without any idea how things will end because you need to stop something that's happening in the present.  But the idea is a bit more reasonable than the way you describe it.  It's more about double-checking a decision to go to war as opposed to a strategy for fighting one.

I doubt he was the first one to articulate these ideas, but if he was the one to popularize them he probably deserves some credit.

Posted by: Ace's liver at January 15, 2009 07:24 PM (XIXhw)

56

Nah, on second thought this makes a better anthem.

All rise for the national anthem:

http://tinyurl.com/7mtyod

Hank Williams III can be the poet laureate!

Bruce Dickenson will instead be given honorary citizenship and put on the 5,000,000 quatloo bill.

Posted by: Entropy at January 15, 2009 07:24 PM (cok/k)

57

50 state attorneys, as I recall. And the MSM was cool with it. Of course, when Bush did it, the MSM had a cow.

Yeah... but Slick Willy was slick.

Come on man.

The media asked the Bush Administration: "Why did you fire those lawyers?" and the answer was ".........uhh.... hmm."

"I don't know"? You can legitimately fire them for whatever flipping reason you want. You really don't fucking know why you just shitcanned them?

OK then.

The were given a goddamn month to retroactively think up reasons for firing these puds, and when Congress held a hearing a month later they still only had a reason for like half of them.

Posted by: Entropy at January 15, 2009 07:30 PM (cok/k)

58 Colin Powelll...kissing ass, resume padding, and affirmative action...

Posted by: Uncle Jefe at January 15, 2009 07:35 PM (+3fAP)

59 I think if Alberto Gonzales had been sworn into the senate, screamed "APRIL FOOLS", torn off his pants and ran around the room in circles singing 'Girls Just Wanna Have Fun' it would have made him seem more competent.

Posted by: Entropy at January 15, 2009 07:37 PM (cok/k)

60

And another thing about Bush:

The man is either truly guilty of serious cronyism, or incredibly fuckin naive enough to think that seeming like a nice chum for 30 minutes a day makes it impossible for you to be corrupt, malign, incapable or incompetent.

I'm not sure which is worse.

That shit almost flew when he was a supposed 'great judge of character', gazing into Putin's eyes and reading poetry to him.

But everywhere you look anytime something near him gets fucked up, you find some old buddy of his who he refuses to believe anything bad about because he's just got such upstanding character.

Posted by: Entropy at January 15, 2009 07:45 PM (cok/k)

61 Posted by: Fresh Air at January 15, 2009 06:07 PM (gQlSm)

Okay, there are problems with this characteristic in leaders, but he also didn't micromanage like LBJ or Clinton, or wallow in eternal passivity like Carter.


Yup. Woodward may be correct in his analysis, but Reagan was also criticized for the same thing. I think they both did better jobs as president than most in my lifetime.

Posted by: stace at January 15, 2009 07:46 PM (JO0c/)

62 Ace's liver: "To be sure you don't always have the political situation you want, and sometimes you go without any idea how things will end because you need to stop something that's happening in the present."

That's a helluva caveat, don't you think? His Doctrine as expanded dictates that you should really think about going to war if you cannot dictate terms to overwhelm your enemy? Wow. Also, who doesn't think about getting into war and who doesn't think that they have clear objectives when they opt in?

Furthermore, no President is ever guaranteed the option of theater superiority even if he thinks he has gamed it properly. It's a pipe dream dictated by circumstance, an arena and subsequent outcome that cannot be predetermined. You plan and that plan faces reality and gets redesigned on day one's encounter with the enemy.

I don't give Powell credit for a) having this universal, optimal preference or for b) popularizing the obvious.

Posted by: AnonymousDrivel at January 15, 2009 08:01 PM (sI5Ho)

63 Totally absurd - Deeply disappointed with this offering from ACE.
GW Bush was very strong, and perhaps the only one with the GUTS to use force in Afghanistan and Iraq.
The Man faced the unethical slander of the left for 8 years, and it seems even the amazing ACE has fallen for the garbage.
Total nonsense, as the fashion grows...
No One, but someone with great strength after the 2006 Midterms would have continued the fight in the heart of the ARAB WORLD, even increasing the commitment to the battle with the SURGE.
Here is something far more objective and accurate:
"History Will Show That George W Bush Was Right"
By Andrew Roberts
Last Updated: 11:52PM GMT 14 Jan 2009

Posted by: HNAV at January 15, 2009 08:11 PM (3UgGF)

64 the link:
http://tinyurl.com/78lgaa

Posted by: HNAV at January 15, 2009 08:17 PM (3UgGF)

65 A better format to click:
http://tinyurl.com/78lgaa

Posted by: HNAV at January 15, 2009 08:18 PM (3UgGF)

66 Ace agreeing with a smarmy shit like Woodward?  I need to start drinking heavily.  Heavier.  Whatever. 

Posted by: Reiver at January 15, 2009 08:39 PM (oliA4)

67 I doubt he was the first one to articulate these ideas, but if he was the one to popularize them he probably deserves some credit.

Again, even put in those terms... not exactly new. The first war fought by man with the first general had a guy who figured that out. The media just wanted another "x" doctrine to contrast with the Bush doctrine and Powell was the guy they picked.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at January 15, 2009 09:00 PM (PQY7w)

68

They said the same things about Reagan.

Too remote.  Too disengaged.  Too passive.  Delegated too much.

Whatever.  Let me know when the Dems and the media (but I repeat myself) come up with some new criticisms of Republican presidents.

Same old, same old.

Keep this in mind:  We now know that Woodward and Bernstein are famous primarily because a bureaucrat (Felt) with an ax to grind fed them information.

I predict that 6 months or so of President Lightworker will have most everyone here longing for GW Bush.

Posted by: tsj017 at January 15, 2009 09:52 PM (TV9JE)

69

With any luck, by the time the USA truly goes to shit the man with the most guns will rule Mexico.

We can hop the border and start a militia and sieze a town.

I say we call it the Metal Militia. I'll be El Guapo. And our state flag will be the Jolly Roger, and our national anthem 'Flash of the Blades' by Iron Maiden.

We'll drink Val-U-Rite margaritas, kill jobos on sieta, plow the horses, give chocolates to the fields, and ride out of town on the senioritas come their quinceaneras.

I just spit up what I was drinking reading that.

The comment about McCain and Graham possibly being Right-wing stalwarts in the future GOP is also right on.

Posted by: MlR at January 15, 2009 10:08 PM (PLmsY)

70 "This impulse led to a Reign-not-Rule style of governance, as used to be said of the British kings -- reign, showing a firm hand at the top, without using that hand to actually rule."

Exactly. I had a boss like that, and we all ended up tearing each other to shreds without a damn thing being done right. Hey, sounds like Iraq until he replaced Rumsfeld (a patriot, but a mistaken strategist).


Posted by: PJ at January 15, 2009 10:20 PM (fyFnu)

71

Powell was the Republican Obama who never caught the wave. I'm glad
now that his true character is out there.  As ineffectual as Bush was, his
essence was never camouflaged...unlike Clinton's.  Honesty is worthy
of at least a field goal.  We can be happy that the Powell we thought
we knew got NOWHERE near the reins of power. He's Obama-lite...,
like most Repubs.

 

 

Posted by: grzzly bare at January 16, 2009 12:04 AM (vzw1g)

72

Bush was a man lacking the wit or desire  to defeat his enemies. Hell,

during eight years of hunkering down, he barely confronted the crap

raining down upon him. Hard for me to fight for a man who won't

raise a finger to help himself or his party.  Easy pickin's for the

vultures. Ergo......the new dawn.....the age of Obama. Now THIS

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will be clapping.

Posted by: grzzly bare at January 16, 2009 12:21 AM (vzw1g)

73

I might be tempted to agree with your post if Woodward had been anything close to fair with Bush for the last 8 years. Just my opinion, but I can't ever remember that happening, at least not the times I heard him on CNN. 

I don't have to go far to illustrate that either. Just look to point number 2 of Woodward's remarks. When Cheney said "Colin always had major reservations about what we were trying to do," Woodward presents it as destructive backbiting that would hurt "unity of purpose". (A quote by the way that subsequent events have shown to have been nothing if not completely accurate)

However, Woodward has no problem at all with Powell backbiting Feith and using a gratuitous reference to Nazis by saying he was running a "Gestapo office" Apparently, that wasn't spreading disrespect to whomever he said it in front of, nor causing any harm to "unity of purpose". 

Woodward is as transparent as a pane of glass. Why you're having a problem seeing that Ace has me completely baffled. 

Posted by: bob c at January 16, 2009 01:37 AM (/TqkW)

74 "Why doesn't he defend himself, or attack the Democrats, for once?!!?"

It's worse than this.  Why should anyone defend a man, who refuses to defend himself?  This is how support from Bush's supporters drained away.  It wouldn't defend himself.  He wouldn't defend his party.  He wouldn't defend his supporters.  When a politician doesn't defend his supporters, his supporters are going to return the favor.

But it's even worse than this.  Bush attacked his supporters.  This goes back to the "compassionate conservatism" remark from the 2000 campaign.  That implies that conservatism is not compassionate and conservatives are what the liberals say:  "mean-spirited, bigots and racists".  Then we had Bush attacking his supporters during the Harriet Miers fiasco, opponents were sexists and during the Shamnesty fiasco, opponents were racists.  Who, among his supporters, are going to defend this guy?

But it's still even worse than this.  The model for this form of Bush 'leadership' would be the 'military tribunal' issue.  I remember, when Bush first proposed military tribunals to try captured terrorists.  He didn't explain much about them.  The Left immediately jumped up and down and condemned the idea and shouted all kinds of propaganda and lies.   Columnists and bloggers went out and wrote about the history of military tribunals going back to George Washington.  Bush didn't defend his proposal, he didn't do much to push his proposal.and when he finally won the debate, he sat on his hands and there were no tribunals for 2 or 3 years. 

So, even when he won, his passivity created a defeat.  Bush himself came out and said he'd like to close Guantanamo.  Who's going to defend this guy after he cuts the legs off of his supporters and his own arguments?

This is why even most Republicans don't support Bush anymore.  He doesn't support us, so why should we support him.  The Bush Family is the most successful political family that is so incompetent at politics, its amazing.  I hope I'll never see another Bush on my ballot in my lifetime.  They destroy their own.  Naming George H. W. Bush his VP, was Reagan's biggest mistake and the country is still paying for it almost 30 years later.

No more Bush's.

Posted by: Jabba the Tutt at January 16, 2009 06:47 AM (LXIL+)

75 Bush gets these kudos from me:

1) Genuinely caring about people.

2) Steadfast enough to not get caught up in the mockery.

3) The speech after 9/11.

4) Not surrendering in Iraq after the 2006 elections.

5) At least trying to raise the issue of Social Security.

6) Raising the issue of FNMA/Freddie Mac multiple times.


Here's what I can't stomach:

A) Afghanistan was a better place to fight the Iranians than Iraq, IMAO.

B) If Iraq is worth going to war for, then it's worth going to war for all the way. The President put his name on Rumsfeld's policy of trying to run the war as cheaply as possible, which, as happens pretty much every single time in history, made the war longer and more expensive.

C) Rumsfeld's firing of General Eric Shinseki for saying "we don't have enough troops" is really bad management. And Bush signed off on it.

D) Medicare Part D.

E) Shamnesty.

F) "I looked into his soul."

G) I keep reading accounts from soldiers who have either not been allowed to shoot at bad guys or who have gotten ridiculous orders due to the extreme shyness on the part of Pentagon leadership. Military Brass doesn't seem to have much brass, which I take to mean they don't have faith that taking risks will be rewarded. Put another way: why should Petraeus be such a novelty?

H) Medicare Part D.

I) I think early in the war, Americans really wanted a way to support the troops. The White House never provided a way for people to feel like they were part of the effort. There were no "buy bonds" rallies, there was no whistlestop tours of Iraq heroes, there was nothing for people to latch on to and say "here's how I'm helping."

J) As per I), telling people to go shopping as a way to respond to 9/11 turned my stomach.

K) What finally turned the page for me was the White House's response to the subprime meltdown. Which is to say that the Treasury Secretary was trotted out to make a few statements. When the house catches on fire, the job of the father is to calm everyone down and get them out the door and tell them it's going to be okay. Like it or not, part of being a leader is dealing with the emotional responses, and the President didn't do that.

L) To the point above about "curious passivity", I've always been puzzled by the way that on 9/11 the President let himself be shepherded from place to place to an "undisclosed location." I'm going to give him "My Pet Goat" -- what the hell else was he going to do -- but I distinctly remember on that day wondering "why in the world is the President hiding?"

M) Kissing the Saudis.

N) Here's a Dallas Morning News editorial about sitting down with the president, with a copy-paste URL because I have no skillz:

http://www2.ljworld.com/news/2009/jan/16/real-bush-got-lost-presidency/

While I disagree with a lot of the writer's ideas, (Medicare Part D is not one of Bush's 'accomplishments'), the idea that the President let himself get painted into a corner and didn't respond effectively to the stereotyping of him as a moron is a fair criticism of his leadership skills. Very few people know that the President is smart, and that's a bad thing.

Criticize Woodward all you want. His mysterious deathbed scoop of Bob Casey is awfully suspicious. But even blind pigs find acorns, and criticizing the President for not being a national leader seems fair to me.









Posted by: Who is Good Will? at January 16, 2009 08:49 AM (xmV/T)

76

I predict that 6 months or so of President Lightworker will have most everyone here longing for GW Bush.

 

Not if the neverending propaganda machine of the press has anything to do with it. They will report on nothing but sunshine and rainbows for the next 4 years. And of course briefly mention "unwelcome distractions" and "innocent mistakes".

Posted by: TheQuietMan at January 16, 2009 09:11 AM (1Jaio)

77 I wouldn't give a fuck about Powell's opinion even if it agreed with mine.  That loser let the Bush  administration swing over the Plame affair while he knew his guy, Armitage, did the leking.

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