the BART police got new tasers that look, feel and operate just like pistols

Somebody said this was a bad idea, right? I mean, COME ON, PEOPLE.

Whitey's always keeping me down.

And that's not a three-pound metal taser. Murderers (and their fans) like to lie.

San Francisco is Whitey. There is no place, person, or thing that is Whiteyer.

I dunno 'bout that.  I lived for a time in Duluth, Minnesota ... which is about as white as white can be.

I swear I saw a Palestinian flag in the crowd when wathcing live coverage of the riots.  I also remember thinking that some of those getting arrested looked like G8 and WTO anarchists (white punks).  

Add to that a town that will burn itself for losing a football game, and you are left with a sad display of violence instead of a peaceful protest.  

I suspect it was a mistake- but the cop still needs to go to jail for negligent homicide.

Cops need to be held to a higher standard- not a lower one.  Had any average citizen accidentally shot someone because they couldn't tell the difference between a tazer and a firearm, you can bet your ass they'll be in prison. Being a cop should not earn one a free pass.

A tazer doesn't look, feel or weigh the same as a pistol.  The cops who got them 2 months prior were told to wear them on the opposite side of where they keep their gun to avoid such mistakes.  And even then, a tazer isn't a toy to be used at the slightest provocation- there were what, four cops there?  They really couldn't subdue one drunk?

Even if a mistake, it was a grossly negligent one that cost someone their life.

All our cops carry the Taser in a crossdraw rig, and they're bright yellow.  Don't know how you could mistake the two. 

Manslaughter - probably he pleads down to negligent homicide and does a few years.

  Manslaughter?  I'm no lawyer, but isn't there a lesser charge?  Maybe "criminally negligent homicide"?  Or is that just a fancy name for "manslaughter"?

  My uneducated opinion's always been that murder is when you intend to kill someone, manslaughter is when you intend to hurt someone and they die, and criminally negligent homicide is when you're doing something negligent (driving on the wrong side of the road, driving drunk, throwing cinder blocks off an overpass, etc.) and unintentionally kill someone.

  The guy's only a two-year cop, so I would think he could make a valid case that he mistakenly grabbed his glock when he meant to grab the taser.  Unless there's evidence that he reacted in anger to something the victim said or did, which MIGHT be used to try and prove "intent to harm" that would kick it up to manslaughter.  From the way he nonchalantly rose up and pulled out his gun, I believe that either he's colder than Al Gore's heart, or that he grabbed the glock by mistake.

  But, yeah.  The whole image of a San Francisco cop calmly standing up and putting a round into a prone, handcuffed suspect who's NOT fighting like a skinned cat is creepy.

I'm not knowledgable about Tazers, but you would think an easy way to avoid something like this would to make them shoot like a Star Trek phaser instead of a standard pistol.

Maybe sell a pistol shaped Tazer to Suzy Housewife for self protection, but give a properly trained cop a product that is impossible to confuse with a handgun.

****

And on the actual rioting, I've never understood it. People riot because they want to riot. No sympathy. No "underlying causes" needed. "Whiff of grapeshot" and all that suits me just fine.

****

And on the Chronicle. Barbed cock of Satan suits me just fine with them as well. May they, they PI, and NY Times be mere memories a year or two from now. (Or even better, bought out by Murdoch and turned into tabloids.)

I live in the Bay Area and I work in SF. I also take BART to work everyday, right through downtown Oakland. All of us where acutely aware of this the other day when we were going home from work while Fruitvale BART was closed down due to this protest.

There is no excuse for a mob of raging lunatics, and I don't give a crap about "racial justice".

This demo started out relatively peacefully until the Revolutionary Communist Party got involved. RCP runs a bookstore in Berkeley called Revolution Books. About 40 people involved with that bookstore were the instigators of the rioting that began later. The SF Chron has widely quoted people affiliated with the bookstore expressing satisfaction and glee over this destructive temper tantrum.

They all should be investigated by the FBI and charged with felony incitement to riot.

This is the tactic of the Left here. Any excuse to go on a rampage will do, as we have seen dozens and dozens of times with "anti-war" protests. When the war began, SF had more than 10,000 in the streets protesting. Now, the Left, thru the Workers World Party (ANSWER) and the RCP (World Can't Wait) have co-opted the protest movement, thus only a couple hundred show up for their marches now.

This protest at BART may have started as a real, genuine, protest to make BART aware how upset people were. Two things happened that turned that into what we saw on the street: 1. RCP and it's (white) agitators who egged the more violent prone black young men to go on a rampage, and 2. the usual black rabble rousers in Oakland who will use any excuse to act up and vandalize property.

There were over 100 black men murdered in Oakland in 2008. Where were the marches then? Same in 2007, and in 2006.

ANSWER  and "black bloc" are having a pro-Gaza, or rather Hate the Jews protest tomorrow in SF Civic Center. I fully expect there to be yet another rampage in downtown SF.

  And Hollowpoint wins the thread with the observation in #16:  The situation hadn't graduated to one where a taser was even needed when the officer shot the guy.  He was lying face down, with the cuffs on, and the other officer had his knee on or near the victim's neck.  I'm wondering if this guy wasn't lipping off to the officer and the frustrated cop wasn't just going to let him "ride the lightning" for awhile to teach him a lesson about how NOT to react to a police officer.

  Well, I'm sure he learned his lesson.  I'm about....oh, let's say....100% sure that this guy will NEVER get himself into a situation where a police officer will ever have to arrest him ever again.  I'm sure his survivors will take some comfort in that, at least.

XBradTC is dead on.  I've carried both and I believe all cops are required to carry the tazer on their weak side in a thigh holster and their service weapon on their hip on the strong side.

From what I see, it looks like an accidental firing but since there is truly no such thing since you have to be really screwed up to draw with your finger on the trigger, in reality though, when I wore my M9 in a thigh holster (Uncle Mikes, forget the Blackhawks), coming out fast I'm not sure if I would have my finger on the trigger..just being honest. 

Rookie move on the cop's part.  Shitty thing overall.

San Francisco is Whitey. There is no place, person, or thing that is Whiteyer.

I dunno 'bout that.  I lived for a time in Duluth, Minnesota ... which is about as white as white can be.

*cough*Oklahoma*cough*

Anyone who has been following this story and event knows that what happened was a demonstration was held at the station where the event took place. A group of the participants broke away from the demonstrators and traveled down 14^th street towards Broadway (moving uptown) trashing cars and businesses and generally just doing an uncontrolled riot.

It turns out that these rioters were actually a communist group from San Francisco who came over to Oakland to create trouble. That was their intent the entire time. It had nothing to do with the shooting which was just used as an excuse.

Somebody's gotta say it, and I'm a hater, so I guess I'll do it. 

No, he didn't deserve to get killed, but if the little dumbass hadn't been getting his rage on, he wouldn't have been in a position where he ended up getting shot while arrested, and in the cosmic balance, this event is probably a slight net positive. 

Is the safety on a taser the same as on a Glock?  I'm assuming tasers have safeties.  Seems it'd be easy enough to put the safety on the opposite side of a taser to differentiate the two.

Regardless, I do think tasers are overused, primarily because police are hesitant to use physical force against a perp.  It's just too easy to end a career because of a bad camera angle or a video clip out of context. 

He was lying face down, with the cuffs on, and the other officer had his knee on or near the victim's neck. 

 "BART spokesman Jim Allison said the victim was not restrained" - SFChron. 

Clearly you* don't know what you're talking about - the Police have stated that he was not restrained.  Your eyes are decieving you.  Only believe what the Police tell you, nothing more.

Secondly, the BART cop remains free.  Murder, Manslaughter, Criminally Negligent Homocide, doesn't matter - he hasn't been arrested or charged with anything.

_{*you - in a generic sense - not necessarily directed towards poster}

Is the safety on a taser the same as on a Glock?  I'm assuming tasers have safeties.  Seems it'd be easy enough to put the safety on the opposite side of a taser to differentiate the two.

They don't have external safties; they're a double action only pistol, meaning that it takes a relatively long, hard pull on the trigger.  It does have a trigger safety that prevents it from firing unless the trigger is actually pulled.

Accidental.

Is the safety on a taser the same as on a Glock?  I'm assuming tasers have safeties.  Seems it'd be easy enough to put the safety on the opposite side of a taser to differentiate the two.

As Jubal and Hollowpoint stated above, Glocks have no external safeties, save for the trigger safety. Tasers have an external safety, that you flip with your thumb. Doing this powers up the weapon and also activates a targeting laser.

It turns out that these rioters were actually a communist group from San Francisco who came over to Oakland to create trouble. That was their intent the entire time. It had nothing to do with the shooting which was just used as an excuse.

I have often wondered if there is a way to identify the members of this communist group, and make life difficult for them. Call it Moron COINTELRO.

Glocks don't have an external safety. Pull the trigger far enough and it goes boom.

Say what? My Glock 17 (9mm) most certainly does.

Orloff said Wednesday that his investigation will focus primarily on what led to the shooting.

Some homicides are lawful, he noted. In this case, Orloff said, "the part that needs dissecting is what, if anything, can be determined about the mental state of the actor," meaning the officer.

There are many possibilities, he said: His office could find no basis for criminal charges; the office could file involuntary manslaughter charges if Mehserle exercised gross negligence, voluntary manslaughter if Mehserle reasonably believed that he was acting in self-defense or murder if Mehserle acted with malice and forethought.

"Our function is to determine whether or not criminal charges should be filed against the officer," he said. "These things are usually an issue of weeks rather than days."

I looked through and don't see anything else from the DA in the article.  I don't see the contradiction, he's just listing the four possible outcomes.  1. No charges.  2. Grossly negligent involuntary manslaughter.  3. Voluntary manslaughter from mistaken self-defense. 4. Murder, requiring malice aforethought.

I'm sticking with 2 and I bet that's what he'll charge.  1 is out, it's obviously an unlawful killing.  3 is out, no way self defense is reasonable.  4 is out because unless (like Russ mentioned) some evidence comes out that he had it in for this guy or wanted to kill someone at random, you can't get intent.

Oh, you don't mean the trigger safety. My bad.

I have often wondered if there is a way to identify the members of this communist group, and make life difficult for them

The news article this morning from the SF Chronicle (of all people) identified them as belonging to some “front bookstore” over in SF. So they know who they are. Like I said, the rioting had NOTHNG to do with the shooting. This is just another example of the commies and anarchists out there trying to create general unrest.

What should happen is that the bookstore gets raided and everyone of them are arrested and charged with conspiracy to overthrow local government. Basically charge them with treason and attempted violent revolution.

Posted by: Sean O at January 09, 2009 06:32 PM (lUEso)

I'm familiar with Glocks but not with Tasers. If the above descriptions of safeties and carry policies are correct, that makes this an execution. Or, at the very least, one truly dumbass cop who never should've worn the uniform.

And I'm not sorry if I offend any of you LEOs out there. Your ranks contain some of the biggest assholes on planet earth.

BTW -- my grandfather was a Pennsylvania State Policeman.

Wow, that's just fucking repellent.  You know who's probably not saying "Good for the cop"?  The very cop in question.  I'd say there's a not insignificant chance that he commits suicide.

That's equally disgusting. Get a clue.

Yeah, that's a suicide risk.

Really? THAT'S being a pussy! Don't let you're friends choose death. Are you a fucking coward?

Sorry.  This is not murder.  You can see it is certainly an 'oh shit' moment, a 'what the fuck did I just do' thing.  Whatever the Bart cop thought he was going to do, whatever he did, he did not mean to kill anyone.

Having said that, he should well pay the consequences for what it is that he is determined to have done.

"11 Can someone give me the timestamp of exactly when the shooting happens. Maybe I'm just blind, but i didn't actully see the shot"

It looks like 1:17 then the officers stand up quickly.

The officer in the back seems to do the shooting.

I don't believe this was anything other than an accident, mostly because of the reaction of the officer at the time, and because of how insanely stupid it would be to simply execute someone under those circumstances. 

However, after reading some posts, I'm having a hard time understanding the nature of this accident.

I initially assumed the officer drew his weapon to threaten the victim, had his finger on the trigger, it had a light pull, and he discharged the weapon unintentionally.  If it's true that the Glock requires a pretty substantial pull, it would make it hard to argue that the discharge wasn't intentional-- even if you are used to it, my limited experience with weapons without external safeties would suggest that you need to make a good commitment to that trigger to get it to do what you want. 

And it would seem that suggesting that he mixed up his taser and pistol would be out of bounds.  A previous poster mentioned that the taser has a safety which has to be released to power up the unit.  This, the size and weight, and the placement of the two holsters would put mixing up weapons almost beyond belief to me. 

I think I'm leaning toward the type of accident in which the officer, perhaps through inexperience and frustration and stress, shut his brain off and did the unthinkable. 

Question to those AoS friends in the force:  Is there any reason for this officer to stand up and draw his weapon at that point?  I would assume that would be the very last thing you would want to do under those circumstances, but I'd like to know what police training would advise. 

Don't sweat it, notropis, their not going to catch it anyway.

I mean, there not going to catch... oh, damn.

The timberland shoes i bought from you are quite well and you are good post at timberland boots.(To make excerpts from the books of mens timberland boots)

I thought that you should be a very fashionable attractive person, then

I suggested that you want  buy rolex watches or buy beautiful omega watch, In here everyone  have one replica watches  in our young

people.Because, the fashion  and  the quality will be equal to the

replica watches  , but the price will not actually  the omega watch .

to be expensive, it is  very cost-effective

Do anything needed to support an idea, a good idea usually brings good results, doing

/>

business is like that.http://www.dunksky.com/.This site has always been on

This article is very interesting. Thank you very much for sharing .

inchirieri auto | fier forjat | balansoar fisher price | inchirieri masini | masini de inchiriat

Do anything needed to support an idea, a good idea usually brings good results, doing

business is like that.http://www.dunksky.com/.This site has always been on

Posted by: nikemax at December 20, 2009 01:09 AM (g3/iU)

Posted by: wholesale jewelry at December 21, 2009 10:01 AM (1dySH)

Posted by: nike air max 360 shoes at December 22, 2009 11:24 AM (xnxK1)

Posted by: nike air max at December 23, 2009 11:19 AM (3i5cr)

Posted by: wholesale jewelry at December 28, 2009 09:07 AM (1dySH)

Posted by: GHD at January 02, 2010 03:08 AM (8u0Dq)

Posted by: nike high dunk at January 02, 2010 03:10 AM (8u0Dq)

Posted by: ugg shoes|timberland uk|ugg boots|87415555.com.cn at January 06, 2010 07:47 AM (qzq48)

Posted by: chi hair irons at January 17, 2010 11:58 AM (9oETl)

Posted by: replica watches at January 30, 2010 09:52 PM (Ddc+V)

Posted by: airmax at January 31, 2010 11:03 AM (3vSvS)

Posted by: replica watches at February 03, 2010 03:08 PM (5grrG)

Posted by: replica watches at February 04, 2010 01:40 AM (YOuVm)

Posted by: may at February 06, 2010 01:05 PM (Eu9Vs)

Posted by: replica watches at February 07, 2010 04:17 AM (TUJDt)

Processing 0.1, elapsed 0.1055 seconds.
14 queries taking 0.0136 seconds, 214 records returned.
Page size 204 kb.
Powered by Minx 0.7 alpha.