1 Chocked full of fun facts this post of yours is.

2 AoSHQ is really ripping into the Henry Paulson, former CEO of Goldman Sachs, bailout plan! I love it.

3 Holy. Fuck.

4 The Governor of Missouri responds to the above Obama "police state tactics", as Hot Air calls them.

5 Yet if we tared and feathered these assholes, WE'D be the ones who went to jail.

6 Missouri Governor statement link [ corrected ].

7 Michigan comes back to win

8 oops

9 I am going to miss Matt Blunt. Now I have to get over to my own space and try not to, what was it, create a divisive character attack regarding Barack Hussein Obama and distract my fellow Missourians.

10 I just wonder where the electricity will come from. All this nonsense about "fueling" during off-peak hours... Well, they won't be off-peak for long if everyone has a vehicle plugged in.

I think battery technology will evolve to the point that an electric car makes sense, but the Dems have no plan to power them. Wind/solar cannot replace coal/nuke/gas. At least not without a lot of money and time. If this is the Dems plan and it plays out w/o a massive increase in electricity production from reliable and relatively cheap sources, the electricity shortages will make the current gasoline crisis look tame.

11 We are so screwed.

12 Wouldn't this be an outstanding campaign issue? 

"The Democrats in Congress have pushed the issue of energy exploration into the next President's lap.  If you elect Barack Obama, he will join his fellow Democrats in their ongoing effort to obstruct a key growth engine for the American economy."

13 What the heck is a Hydro-electric car?

14 Venezuela is looking for new oil partners - Russia and China, too.

These next few years are gonna be totally fucked up.

Get ready for 8 dollar gas prices.

15 13: Tom
A hydro-electric car is one where you hook it up to your garden hose to recharge it.

16

Oh yeah. 

A massive heat wave, covering a third of the US like we had a few years back, with a/c consumption straining the power grid to the maximum, and at the same time millions of cars are supposed to plug into electrical outlets for their "fuel".

Or how about this?   Ordinary summer heat waves hit major American cities, where millions of fuel-cell powered cars are emitting water vapor into the air,  driving the relative humidity to 95%, and pushing a/c use to the max --- and at the same time the electric cars are sucking up "fuel" at power stations.

Oh yeah.

No problem.

Twenty years ago I was in Calcutta, where the power used to routinely (I mean day in, day out, no matter what the season), shut down randomly across the city, for periods ranging from ten minutes to 12 hours.  You never knew how long.

Welcome to America's energy future.

 

 

 

 

 

17 Once the govt realizes its impossible to distinguish between someone's electric stove and an electric car charging, they'll start downplaying the electric car idea because they'll want to tax auto electricity higher than cooking electricity, but the whole country only has single meters on residences.

18

Sistah Sarah has to lock-and-load on this in the VP debate!

Demand that Uncle Joe deny all of it.  If she makes the whole fucking debate about this shit, they (MSM) are gonna have trouble suppressing it by omission, aren't they?

19

So, if I have it correctly, Nancy "Bug Eyes" Pelosi is in this game to fill her own personel bank account with cold cash?

The rest of America be damned?    And right along with her a bunch of bunch of other "money terrorists" grubbing around in my (and your) pockets?

During a crisis? Get this thing passed as soon as possible?

Otta be a law broke here, somewhere.

If the elected group in charge of things right now dont have your best intrests at heart...

EFFF Em.

20

Folks, this is serious...it's not just the typical-left-low-life-crap the dems usually pull ...this is a coup. 

Once this so-called Rescue bill is passed, the U.S. will become  a Socialist regime and Prince Obama will sit on the throne.

Prince Obama will own our homes, tell us which fuel we may use,  decide where our children go to school, provide us with free, government-run healthcare, tell us which unions/jobs we may apply for...

Oh wait...isn't that Cuba?

My mistake--we will become a COMMUNIST nation under the rule of Prince Obama.

Seriously, folks...what are we going to do about it? What can we do about it?

21 annoyedashell at September 27, 2008 08:09 PM (PSSXS)

Move to a gulf state and push secession

Seriously. If Obama wins. Republicans will probably win big in 2010. Much like 1994. Unfortunately, lots can happen in 2 years.

22 lorien1973, you're assuming the democratic system stays intact for 2 years. I make no such assumption.

23

13 What the heck is a Hydro-electric car?

It's a car that you drive into a lake and it goes through the inflow ducts of the dam and is crushed as it goes into the giant electric turbines.

See, I was very polite and sensitive and didn't mention the name "Kopechne" once!

24 The jack-booted thugs and liars, aided by their propagandists in the MSM, once again force their will on a defense-less and unknowing population.  No wonder they want to take away our guns.

25 Christoph at September 27, 2008 08:25 PM (hawOV)

I won't become like those leftists who thinks Bush will stop free elections during his term.

Republicans need to look at 2010, get a good class of people and run on their principles. Assuming, of course, that the media decides to accurately report things after the election. Which is, of course, in doubt.

26 I am sick of these "environmentalists" going on and on about these electric cars. THEY ARE NOT ENVIRONMENTALLY FRIENDLY!!!  Hell, I can't throw away a cellphone (that weighs several ounces) battery because of what it does to the environment. Can you imagine what is going to happen after about 5 years when one car's batteries (weighing several hundred pounds) have to be replaced. Now multiply that by several million.

Yes, nasty indeed.

My advice. Buy a more fuel efficient car, if that is what you want to do.

Or just buy what the fuck you want. I'm not going to judge you, so don't judge me for wanting this.

27 Living Richard Nixon: "We're all Keynesians now."

Zombie Richard Nixon: "We're all Socialists now."

Pardon me while I puke.

28 McCain should challenge Obama to sign a pledge not to re-enact the presidential moratorium on off-shore drilling.

29

I think that the taxpayers would gladly pay 700 Billion dollars to permanently replace the crooked Democrat schmucks in Congress with animatronic characters from an old "Krazy Kat" cartoon.

Barney Frank would be replaced by "Officer Pup".

 

30 "I won't become like those leftists who thinks Bush will stop free elections during his term."

What you will or won't become might be irrelevant.

31 Pardon me while I puke.

Posted by: Bugler at September 27, 2008 08:30 PM (YCVBL)

How can you have morning sickness? It's only Saturday night!

Wait until Monday morning at 9:30AM EST.

THEN you can puke..

32 22 lorien1973, you're assuming the democratic system stays intact for 2 years. I make no such assumption.

Posted by: Christoph at September 27, 2008 08:25 PM (hawOV)

 

Will it be replaced by a giant Powerball lottery?

Then I'll want the Krugerrand option, since our dollar will be worth about a fiftieth of a Polish zloty!

33 I might just puke all weekend, TJ.

34 I might just puke all weekend, TJ.

Posted by: Bugler at September 27, 2008 08:49 PM (YCVBL)

Actually that is good news since, according to the Old Wives Tale about such things, large amount of puke mean that it's going to be a girl - a good sign for a McCain/Palin victory.

35 #5, skip tarring and feathering. I recommend stockpiling ammunition. There's enough machined pieces of steel I won't be able to find in event of confiscation to get me started.

I always thought that was hilarious anyway. "The Dems will send the Army out to take our guns away!". Dude, if that order is ever given, half the US Army will be running back to their houses first to hide their own shit. I've worked with guys who had collections that made ME nervous.

Christoph, I like you, but there's a fundamental difference between the ancestral DNA of the Canadians and the USA. Your ancestors, including the Tories who fled the thirteen colonies, were those who made a conscious decision to remain part of the British Empire. Our ancestors were the ones who hated distant authority we fought the British until they went home and then killed over half a million of our own ninety years later over another political squabble. If America ever erupts in another fratricidal killfest, remember that as an informal epitaph for the lot of us since I doubt I have enough luck to survive a third war I'd be up to my eyeballs in.

36

I am certainly not up on the laws, rules, etc. of current govt cans, and can nots.

But I think GWB could stop this crazy shit with declaration of "EMERGENCY" 

The Republic is in danger of succumbing to COMMUNIST  PRINCIPLES. PERIOD.

STOP THEM NOW..OR GET READY TO LIVE BY IT!

OH.. can you imagine the monday morning news?

The left blogs exploding...

MSM DROPS DEAD. (cause that was their plan)..

HEH.

37 Hugh Jass, Nancy "Bug Eyes" Pelosi is in this game to fill her own personel bank account with cold cash?

She's trying to save the world. See?

38

If this is the plan of the dems then i got to laugh.  what the dems forget is that unlike oil electricity can be generated by anyone.   Anyone can go off grid with their own little wind power, solar cells, fuel cells etc.   You can't pump and refine your own gas but if the price is right you can make your own electricity and there are ceap means for low electricity stroage.  Thus the electric companies unlike
"big oil" will not be able to set prices.  and if gas falls after everyone stops using it it would be cheaper to get gas.

 

Stupid democrates they do not understa the market.

39 White House spokesman Tony Fratto said the bill "stands as a reminder of the failure of the Democratic Congress to fund the government in regular order." But, he said, it "puts the United States one step closer to ending our dependence on foreign sources of energy" by lifting the offshore drilling ban and opening up huge reserves of oil shale in the West.


Since the offshore ban expires on its own, this bill does not lift the offshore drilling ban. Bush's White House spokesman Tony Fratto is in league with the Democrat Congressional Majority.

These legislative bundler hustlers all reek to high heaven in the grandest scam ever.

40 If Obama wins. Republicans will probably win big in 2010. Much like 1994. Unfortunately, lots can happen in 2 years.

Yeah, like 2-3 SCOTUS picks. Hello, Madame Justice Hillary.

41

Really folks...what can we do?  Although the internet is invaluable, it's passive in voicing our CONCERNS.

I know protests aren't our thang ...but can we organize AND MAKE SOME DAMN NOISE ABOUT THIS BLATANT CORRUPTION IN CONGRESS!

I'm just throwing some ideas out there...

--the traditional protest...yawn, yawn. Even if it's organized nationwide, conservatives have busy lives. The dems hire their protesters.

--Stop working for ten minutes across the country at the same time of the day.(emergency workers excluded, of course)

--Coordinate phone calls to Congress at the same time of day--clogging up phone lines for for an entire hour? 

  --WE THE PEOPLE sign a petition to eliminate corruption in Congress and that WE want power back to the PEOPLE.

--pins, buttons, T-shirts, baseball caps --advertising our distaste for Congress. (I know, it's weak)

Any more ideas? Calling Congress just isn't enough at this point--they don't seem to care what we think...but they will if a massive revolt is looming.

Your thoughts?

 

 

42 unseen,

you have yet to attempt surpassing the deed restrictions and zoning and unimaginable hurdles that officials will put into place in order to restrict people from being self sufficient. No windmill on your private property. Even in CA solar panels are being outlawed (hurt the critters). Just examples of things to come. Better to fight it now than to assume you'll deal with it later if ever. Once precedence is set, the ruts become rigid.

43 Republicans need to look at 2010, get a good class of people and run on their principles.

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!! "Principles", he says. That's a good one.

Look, Obama's going down in flames. I am certain of it. And the sound of lefty exploding heads on Now. 4th is going to sound sweet. But that's all we're going to get. Congress is going to be a disaster. McCain's not going to have any coattails. It's going to be so bad, the Democrats may even get their filibuster-proof Senate.

In 1994, we elected a bunch of "principled" Republicans who principally stuffed their pockets with money, just like the Democrats. And there's not much of an indication they've learned that that was a bad idea.

I want to puke, too. Who's got the bucket?

44 annoyedashell

yard signs
neighborhood block parties
letters to the editor of your local rag or guest editorial submission
email your legislators

45

You do mean $10/gal, not $10/bbl, correct?

Otherwise, great post!  Shouldn't Pelosi recuse herself from some of this energy debate?

46 Mav Muse..I think I see allright    !

47

maverick muse

trying to stop the market with rules and laws will work about as well as the drug war.  People will buy indoor means of electricity generation,  they will buy generators,  make their own fuel cells.  etc  Electricity generation is not hard it is a simple process.  Many ways to accomplish it for the amount needed for a home.  even if they can not go 100% "off grid" they can produce enough to blunt any massive spike in prices.

48

1.  Write our congresspersons.

2.  Alert the media to the Democrats trying to raid the Treasury.

3. ???

4.  Profit!

49

Great ideas, maverick muse.. but I think we'll need to go BIGGER--requiring tens of thousands if not hundreds of thousands of voices finding a means to protest blatant Congressional corruption ...not to mention the hostile takeover of our Capitalistic system of government.

It would require tremendous coordination and a little imagination...something conservatives are naturally blessed with.

How about it? Any more ideas?

 

 

 

50

hell candles and oil burning lights would make a come back if the price was to spike.  The reason the big oil has a stranglehold is because they can limit supply and have a steady or almost steady demand.  With electricity there are many ways to reduce demand.  From unplugging TV's , turning off or replacing lights, replacing windows, going without AC.  Unlike gas you do not need to spend 10,000-25,000 to reduce your electric use and still keep your standard of living.  People will go to bed earlier, get up with the sun, change their way of heating water,  wash dishes by hand etc.   Electricity while a needed part of life is needed only because it is cheap.  If electricity becomes expansive people will revert to the old ways of life.  And all it takes is flipping a switch not buying a new car, not sacrificing trips etc. 

 

51 Our poor electric grids are already maxed out.
When the wind blows for several days they have to flood parts of Oregon because the dams can't hold the water back too long to prevent the overloading of the grids from the all the wind and hydro energy.
Electric cars might be a cool idea, but we need a hundred nuclear power stations and bunch more wires criss-crossing everyone's backyards before we go there. And how many people (even the ones with magnetic bracelets) want power lines built over under or around their houses?

52 but if the price is right you can make your own electricity

Indeed.  And the price is going to become a whole lot "righter" in the next few years as traditional silicon wafer cells give way to materials that can be produced by the square mile for a pittance. 

NanoSolar's high speed reel to reel process using a flexible substrate is what solar panels will look like in the future. 

Suppose you could manufacture 1000 square feet of panel for say $100?  The efficiency of the cells doesn't even need to be very good for it to become cost effective.   NanoSolar's material uses some relatively exotic and toxic materials, but there's some designs, *cough* *cough*,  in labs out there that use materials that are common as dirt.

53 Oregonmuse

Puke away, but there's a hole in the bucket.

Yes, the Republican majority pissed away their political capital.

Social "compassionate" conservatives bumped fiscal conservatism to the back of the line. If it didn't start before, it was evident when Bush paid off wealthy and insured 9-11 victims with taxpayer consolation money, as if Oklahoma terrorist victims or any future terrorist victims don't matter because they aren't Wall Street. After his dad lost because of the "read my lips, no new taxes" line, GW swore to himself he'd placate voters with pitiful refund "stimulus" checks while organizing the greatest banking swindle ever. Why would he hire Paulson but to put the wheels into motion to secure his retirement along with his dad and Bill Clinton. And the banking swindle is only the tip of the iceberg, as corporations are all in league to thieve from taxpayers huge subsidies and bail-outs. When Bush pushed for illegal alien amnesty and no secure borders but OPEN BORDERS, the cards were on the table and the writing on the wall that wasn't built. When Bush is wrong, it's miserable. Bush was elected by name recognition and Bob Bullock's good reputation. Bush can't bring himself to leave office without proving to the Democrats that he's truly a lovable guy. It would be pathetic except that he's truly sold us to Paulson to sell us all down the river, making it sinister. As if his hands are clean. NOT.

54 Has anyone actually seen the details in the bill or should I say the actually mother fuckin bill that everyone seems to talk about but no one has fucking seen????  I can't find it on the Congress Thomas site (which is supposed to have every f'in bill).  This shit is fucking getting lame.  No wonder they are pushing this hard.

55

I've got a 200 amp service meter hooked up to my home.

No way Alternative methods could replace it.

Period.

Try just drying your clothes with a fan or some such.

Not to mention taking a shower with hot water.

These are fools talking.

56

CDR M

drudge had a story up saying the bill morphed from a 3 pag bill to a 42 pg bill to a 102pg bill in a weeks times.

57 Hypothetically, a moron works for a company and knows that a big deal is going down the will cause the stock in the company to go up.  The moron goes out and buys a lot of the company's stock, then the next day the deal goes through and the stock price goes through the roof . The moron sells and then goes to jail for  "insider trading".

However, if Nancy Pelosi goes out and buys stock in a wind farm, then she pushes through laws to mandate more wind farms, hasn't she committed a crime at least equal to the moron's crime?

58 Unseen, like your moniker, it is sight unseen!!!  This is Bull Shit!!!  I want to see what our elected officials are fighting over and I'm tired of the fucking unnamed source crap.  McCain needs to show the world what the bill is, what's in it and highlight the libtard earmarks that will ruin the future of this country.

59 Halloween Costume

Nancy Pelosi plastic mask and queen for a day banner reading:

"I didn't know you were Catholic."
OR
"3rd in line to the White House."

Trick or Treat
So whatever happened to that news fabrication headline about Paulson begging Pelosi on bended knee to PLEASE keep it up.

Lord have mercy, don't let it be Obama and Pelosi ruling.

60 Sue, "hasn't she committed a crime at least equal to the moron's crime?"

So much worse than Martha Stewart

61

Kat-Mo posts some interesting connections, but there are a few problems.

"alternate" is a word used by people that don't understand, as with journalists or politicians; it's "alternative" energy.

bunny boy nailed it and was echoed by others, we have serious supply problems.  It's not just the generating facilities that don't exist yet, or can't handle the loads.  It's also the power lines, in particular the big transmission lines.  We just don't build million volt, or half million volt, or even 250,000 volt lines, anymore.  They take forever to permit and get through all of the right-of-way battles.  We can't build them now; where do these people think we're going to be able to build power lines to move solar, wind, geothermal, nuclear, etc.?

And, I believe Pelosi is invested (through her husband), mostly in the natural gas bridge part of Pickens plan.  I suspect she knows only as much as she is told on these subjects, unless she's a fabulous liar (liar? yes, but not very good).  I skimmed somewhere her hubby was/is the CEO or Chairman of an engineering company I onced worked for; if that's true, he knows his stuff on these energy issues.  He knows he'll never get transmission lines built to move the electrical energy, whether it's from natural gas or wind.  This is out there, but other people besides me must know there is a serious problem with transmission lines, so I think he's onto a different solution.  Quickest description, say a million volt line as as big as we can get (mostly), and we can't widen and hang enough wire to make each of those 3 million volts (environmental lawsuits, neighbors), then the only possibility seems to be to trench beneath the existing lines and go underground with superconductors.  Yeah, that would be tough to do and take forever, but I know these people; they don't care if we don't have practical juice for transportation; they're all about grand schemes for the future.

Notice, Pelosi didn't raise hell about her personal jet not being a hybrid, she bitched that it couldn't carry adequate fuel to make San Francisco, non-stop.  She knows electric is not going to replace fuel anytime soon.  Her husband and many others involved know the grid can't handle even modest growth in use.  I'll bet they are going after creating a National Priority to upgrade the grid, so they can build a new type of transmission system.  Yeah, it may sound like a stretch, but that same company was involved in getting FL to pass a Constitutional Amendment, to require the construction of an elevated Magnetic Levitating train system (repealed the next year, once the citizens realized what was hidden in the legislation).  Don't put it past them; they play politics. 

62

McCain wants accountability. I do too. I want a public discussion of the bailout. I want a floor vote on it. I want to see who supports the biggest giveaway in the country's history; I want to know who opposes preventing the second Great Depression. If Pelosi and Reid cannot bring this to a vote before a market crash, it's a failure of their leadership and they should be the ones held accountable.

This is what these guys get paid for. Let's demand a floor vote on this bailout.

63

MartyH,

Yep.

64

Gulf states and secession? Let me count the ways:

1. The black population of the South will oppose it. They trust white Southerners less than they trust white Northerners.

2. It's unpatriotic... and, for most of you, who want bills to ban flag desecration, hypocritical. You're proposing to take a half dozen or so of those stars off the field.

3. The South would have to start out as a democracy, which is an unstable system of government, for reasons which are playing out nationally now. Democracy in the South would be even more of a joke than it is up North. You have... witnessed... some of our politicians in action... right? Cynthia McKinney? Pretty much everyone in Louisiana up to Bobby "The Exorcist" Jindal?

4. With the possible exceptions of Texas and Florida, most Southern states aren't fiscally solvent. They take more pork off of Washington than they give back in taxes.

5. Theocracy. The South is even more religiously bent-outta-shape than it is racially. Good luck attracting any world-class researchers to this place when the Discovery Institute is accrediting all the schools.

But hey, other than all that, and the fact that the moonbats are loving the comments here which prove their suspicions about us, it's a wonderful idea.

65 I too want a floor vote and it should be carried LIVE on ALL networks (or they can lose their license just like Obama would threaten them!).  No more cover, no more cowering.  Just vote and do your damn job.  Upfront and not afraid of what you really believe in.  Just as you would have union members do once the secret ballot goes away.

66 David Ross, you're obviously a genius. Bite me.

67 Here is a balanced view: fuck the cocksucker ass-wipe Republicans - they are the dipshit big business coddlers asleep at the wheel who allowed the fucking mess we see the last 2 weeks. You call it - unregulated toxic lending bringing down the big financial institutions, Mid-East quagmire killing the sons/daughters of poor people, environmental laws strip-mined, out of control deficit dooming my kids future, stripping basic services for disabled - fuck those shithead bastards! Fuck those butt-fuckers and the mule they rode in on! All those assholes have done for the past 8 years is squat down and take a big steaming dump of shit right on the head of the little guy.

68 We need to impeach these cocksuckers

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_MGT_cSi7Rs

69 CJrun,

IMO, the biggest impact of solar is going to be local.  Some utilities are going in (like NanoSolar's first customers), but as the technology becomes cheap and pervasive, the crap will be sprouting up on roofs all over the place.   ex. I believe Kohls (the retailer) has about a half dozen of their stores fitted with enough solar on the roof to essentially run the HVAC and lighting on those stores on a good day.  I think they did it as a political statement more than anything else because it was done with old/expensive technology, but its not going to remain expensive forever.

The next few years are going to be transformational for the cost effectiveness of solar.

70

Anyone notice how Drudge goes to sleep during the weekend, when all this shit is coming down?

Anyone get the sense that he's over at Barney's house, eating a nice warm slurpy?

Just askin'

 

 

71

I voted in three separate states in 2006, owing to my military status (of course my defense is that I'm from Illinois) in an attempt to stave off in part what we are witnessing now.  The Republicans may be bums, but they're our bums.  Now is not the time for recriminations, but there were enough Republicans who sat on their hands in 2006 in a snit.  Bush retains some of the blame in 2006 for retaining Rumsfeld, a lightning rod if there ever was, a testament to Bush's fatal weakness.  I'd much rather be facing losing a Republican-controlled legislature in 2008 than being virtually powerless now.

Serves as a good lesson for those who'd concede Obama the election in 2008 (like letting the other team score a TD rather than run out the clock) then have Bobby Jindal waiting in the wings in 2012.  Don't forget that despite Carter's incredibly destructive administration, he was neck in neck with the greatest President of our lifetimes until the last week of the campaign.  Obama's will be the most corrupt administration in history as he will face minimal opposition, nominal press scrutiny, legions of advisors all cutting their own deals, a proven inability to weed out bad actors, and the most insane Messianic following I've ever seen. 

Preaching to the masturbators, I know.   

72 Purple, I keep reading that $1/watt is coming within a year or so. Is that true?

73 Any more ideas? Calling Congress just isn't enough at this point--they don't seem to care what we think...but they will if a massive revolt is looming.

Torches, pitchforks, rope, tall trees?  Or maybe TERM LIMITS!

The Pickens plan is more about getting eminent domain to build a water pipeline from west Texas to DFW.  The wind farm is the tasty cheese into which he's hidden the nasty pill.  Once the state seizes the land on his behalf for the high tension towers the pipeline is an easy add-on.

Wind and solar electricity costs 4-6 times as much as a comparable capacity nuclear plant.  Coal/natural gas plants are even cheaper.

As it stands now, the US needs to expand electricity production by 30% over the next 20 years.  If every American woke up tomorrow with an electric car add the electric equivalent of the ~18,000,000 barrels of crude we use daily.  Then there's the aging transmission infrastructure.

We are well and truly fucked.  Every penny the government is squandering directly or through subsidies on "alternative" energy should have been invested in proven methods of generation and transmission of electricity.  Nuclear is our best hope for the future long term; short term we've got enough coal to last 100 years.

Didja know Clinton - through executive order - made the largest deposit of clean burning coal in the world into a national monument and off limits?  For campaign cash, no less.  Lippo payoff.

Frankly, nothing Congress does surprises me anymore.

74 The next word I want to hear coming out of McCains mouth is "ANWAR".

75 How the fuck do I click on Ace one time, then 20 minutes later there's a post with like 70,000 replies?

76 Starting along about FDR people began thinking that the president could do whatever the fuck he wanted to "fix" things.  So suddenly this whole mess is Bush's fault. 

The bills that started all of this (CRA-1977) and the revisions to that law in the '90s are what started all of this.  The regulations that started this mess began in Congress.

Everybody here gets this, but unless the Republicans use some of the fucking money that they have to educate the rest of voters the results of this election and future elections will remain the same.  Why can't they buy commercial time to run down the evolution of this mess???   They don't even need to do it all at once.  They could do some kind of Burma Shave campaign that starts next week and runs through the election.  They need to do it when people are watching the boob tube.  There is no other way to get the message across. 

If they don't do something to try to educate voter about this then I just might say fuck 'em and start preparing for either then end or the socialist state that is to come.

77 If by hydro-electric car, you mean hydrogen fuel cell powered, it's never going to happen, regardless of what Botox Pelosi or anyone else thinks:

http://tiny.cc/PuqHK

Hydrogen ain't happenin'.

78 Another scary thing about this oil-embarago the dems are trying to foist on us is the other uses for oil products.  Remember, gas was originally a waste by-product of the cracking process.  We now use petroleum products in medicine, plastics and other manufacturing products, fertilizer, etc.  Even if we went 100% alternate fuel for our travel/energy, we would STILL need lots of oil.   And we's still have gas as a waste product.

79 BTW, for a good dissection of the Pickens Plan, read this:

http://tiny.cc/IEwG4

Pickens is nothing more than a con artist seeking a govt. handout.

80 I contacted my Rep, two Senators, and McCain requesting a floor vote before a market meltdown. Let's see where everyone stands.

81 So, no. 38??

Are you tryin' say we should use alternative energy and give up our gas guzzlers?

http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/080814/military_donations.html

82 I tried to email the RNC at several of the email addresses on their website, but every single f-ing one of them comes back "undeliverable".  WTF????  I guess they only want my money, not my input.

83

purple avenger:  awww crap.  When the sun doesn't shine, you've got nothing.

Solar zealots do not have, nor can they ever have, the energy density to replace oil, gas, hydro via dams, and nuclear. 

Solar's just nibbling around the edges.

A few weeks ago some solar creeps were arguing all our problems would be solved if we were essentially to cover Arizona with panels.

No environmental impact there, nooooooo.

 

Spare me.

 

 

 

84

The draft of the current bill:

http://tinyurl.com/4msemf

The problem I have is with sec. 105d, which just needs to be fucking removed entirely.  Also, section 106b needs to be deleted and 106a just needs to direct the Secretary to use existing federal contracting regulations, which already provide the requested protections.

A lot of the bill has to do with the gov't's authority to restructure mortgages through the Hope for Homeowners program.  The stuff on executive compensation basically states the gov't wants a non binding vote on executive compensation, and no "golden parachutes". Sec. 302 is Tax provisions for executives of companies which the gov't buys assets from; I am not big up on tax law so I couldn't follow some of it.

85 I keep reading that $1/watt is coming within a year or so. Is that true?

IMO, $1/watt will seem expensive in the foreseeable future.  I also think *cough* *cough* there will be materials at some point that pick up outside the visible spectrum that can work OK on a cloudy day or even in the dark.

Think about what an IR panel would mean -- the roof can BE the collector.

86

"that can work OK on a cloudy day or even in the dark."

Good grief. Does the First Law mean anything to you?

87 Does the First Law mean anything to you?

Sure.   Does a cloud chamber work in the dark though? 

88

Purple avenger: 

UNLESS and UNTIL you've got a working, economical solar model (after thirty-five years of development)  you are simply jizzing all over yourself and asking us to admire the results.

Solar doesn't have some of the "alternative" problems , but it has a couple of big ones: it's not reliable, and it takes some really exotic materials to be efficient --- otherwise we would have economical solar already.

An adjunct to mainstream power sources someday?  Sure.  Maybe someday workable in the southwest?  Sure.  But in most of America you're talking about an unreliable resource, not nearly as economical as existing sources.

Drill, baby, drill!

 

89 if you look around your house you'll count hundreds of products that have oil in them in one way or another... our society is built on oil... from top to bottom... change will only come very slowly by finding work-arounds' for every product, and testing out their benefits and draw backs... like the ethanol debate... if we had switched over en masse to something like that... where would we be now?

the only real reason to drill your own oil is to drive down competition by having a reserve so large your provider has to sell cheap to entice you to buy... I do believe we should have an intact oil production system that can handle the entire consumption needs of the country... which might even be impossible... but to buy theirs and save ours would be well advised... when the world runs out... it would be nice to have some left... and a few guns...

90

Nuke power, upgraded infrastructure.  We need somewhere along the lines of 300 nuke plants online to provide 50% of our electricity; currently we have 104 an they provide 19.8% of our electricity.

Given that most of those plants are older models, We're going to need to contruct roughly 220 plants (to make up for closures) in the next 30 years to go 50% nuclear.  At 4-5 billion a pop, and a contruction time of 5-10 years depending on environmental silliness, so on and so forth...  We need to spend something like 880 Bn to 1.1 Trn to build this stuff.  Of course, if we use all American materials and legal labor, that all gets dumped into our econ.

Nuclear has the carbon footprint of wind during construction and solar when operating.

 

Solar and wind are utterly inefficient in terms of acreage needed and their total output.  Nuclear has the largest capital cost but the lowest operating costs, the most efficient use of space, and a ridiculously small carbon footprint.

We already had a Manhattan Project that already solved this problem.  Why the fuck are we not implementing it?

91 Lots of good ideas here. Personally, I think we should be running cars on LP and CNG right now. There's really only one reason why we don't have that technology, and it's the same reason why all these alternative energy ideas won't work: Our elected officials are fucking criminals.

92 Bugler,

You are so right, not that I am in the habit of defending Google's founders but it is a prime example that when they try to buy up the old tv air waves for universal wifi that all the broadcasting companies are going nuts. They are inventing all this crap about how it will interrupt signals and reception, bull c@#$!

I guess they are thinking as soon as wifi is free all our cable companies are screwed. It's akin to Natural Gas vs Edison and the light bulb.

I can't wrap my mind around why Nuclear power hasn't happened already, liberals all want us to be riding bicycles around everywhere.

www.trunkreport.com

93 Everytime the liberal envromentalists wackos open their mouths you can feel the HOT AIR and thats especialy true when it comes to AL GORE and those doofuses from GREENPEACE

94 and it takes some really exotic materials to be efficient

And you think material science research *cough* *cough* is standing still and won't do something about that eh?  High efficiency doesn't matter if you can manufacture stuff by the square mile for almost nothing.  I'm just saying...

95 I also know there's going to be some rather ordinary and very inexpensive materials that have been around for a long time processed in an "exotic", but inexpensive manner, manner showing some rather unexpected behaviors.

96 The thing is to not get locked in on conventional approaches and thinking.  A fish can't imagine what its like to walk on land or fly, because its known universe is water.  We've been swimming in water for the past 50 years when it comes to semiconductors and how they're manufactured and processed.

97

hydro-electric has more to do with big dams and lots of water, which they're against.  I think you mean hybrid-electric.

Bob Durtschi

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