1 Connected in the sense that they used Axelrod's pet voiceover lady? I mean, good on you for smoking out the Winners, but is this something that Goldfarb will bite on or not?

2 Same voice actress, all those Plame advisors, and an Axelrod PR firm doing Axelrod's breed of political bullshitting.

It's not enough to convince many independents (my guess), unless it can be tied more closely to Obama's campaign or Axelrod.  Of course, Rusty did an awesome job with the evidence he had.  What we now need is someone to ask this firm to identify who paid for the ad.  It's against the law for a 527 to not report the work, so surely it can be investigated.  I also want to see Obama deny that his campaign paid for these ads.  I don't think he would lie about it (and he knows whether he did or not).  I think he would quibble if he did pay for it, and go ballistic if he didn't.

3 Those concerned Christians turned out not to be life-long Republicans!

4 Don't mind the nay-sayers. This is some good work, Ace.
I'll start pushing the link tomorrow.

5 It's already been sent to Drudge. We're ready to go.

6 Joe, you said the exact same thing on the Jawa site...

It's a lot more than you are claiming if Axelrod is involved.  Of course Rusty can't prove Axelrod was involved yet.  What's clear is that whoever paid for this is trying very hard to hide their connection.  We know there is a problem, and can put pressure on Obama's campaign to tell us if they had any involvement with this firm.

If they are even paying this firm for anything, that's pretty bad in itself.  And also keep in mind that there are hundreds of astroturfed ads.  This is just the set that are clear to link to a PR firm... it's the first step in uncovering the astroturf campaign.  When it's clear that all the lies about Sarah Palin were paid for by billionares, and not just a bunch of idiots on Kos and Andi Sullivan, a lot of voters will be disgusted.

7 Good work. This'd be front page news if McCain were tied to it.

8 >>>Connected in the sense that they used Axelrod's pet voiceover lady?

A friend in Hollywood put the voice out to people in the voice over industry.  No one could ID her.  She appears to be an exclusive of Axelrod and Obama.

In addition, one of the Winner's names one of Obama's top California fundraisers and advisers as a friend on facebook.

9 I sent it to Hannity, Rush and Levin...trying to do my part...

10 This is terrific work Ace, both you and Rusty co.  Flaming skull, will ya?

11 oh man, marty, can you imagine if someone had an ad on youtube about Obama being a muslim?  And the voiceover matched the work of Mccain's ads?

Can anyone imagine the backlash over that?

12 AP version: Right-wing blogs try to censor free speech from concerned private citizens using You Tube . . .

13

Fuck the fucking fuckers. Per the (damn I hate typing this even ironically [I hate you Ace]) urgent action alert, tomorrow I will post about it on my fourth rate blog.

And to keep up the ratings, one more time....

Fuck the cocksucking, ass felching, twat sniffing, democrat voting, cunt-monkeys responsible for this.

McCain/Palin '08!!

Yes I'm drunk blogging. Fuck you too! 

14 Timt to start bombarding the corporate clients of the Winners. Do they really want to keep paying a PR firm that has deliberately spread LIES?  That usually makes clients VERY unhappy.

15 BTW: Did Rusty try using voice-identification software to compare the voice-over to known Publicis ads?

16 Yeah, I did. I'm kinda working out my thoughts on the fly here. Good on Rusty Ace and the rest for smoking out the Winners, since I haven't said that before.

17 Number 11 has it right, and this is GREAT work by all involved. Gonna catch some beauty sleep - will pick up the gauntlet tomorrow! GOOD JOB.

18 hmm, average voter will probably say "Who is axlerod"

19 As a longtime republican and christianist who...

Damn. who am I kidding. Please don't arrest me.

20

This will be hard to pin down.  Won't be against the law- not actual electioneering, no vote for this person.  Just slander/libel that won't be able to get a judgement on because of the whole "public figure" thing. 

The Winners can certainly claim that they did this completely on their own because they are big Democrats.  Even if a 527/Soros paid them to do it, won't be illegal, and noone will care. 

Except for this - IF the Obama campaign paid for it, or IF the campaign coordinated with the 527 or even the Winners as independent actors, that would be against election laws. 

But that will take someone to ask the question.  Get it on Drudge and maybe there is a chance someone will followup, though their first response will be "The Drudge Report?  Hah"  As if Drudge hasn't gotten a lot of big stories into the media mainstream.

 

 

 

21 JP, it's doubtful. Axelrod is big on the news channels. His name is actually well known.

22 rockmom, you're right of course,

But it will be hard to identify a lot of the corporate clients of this company.  The whole point is to keep the astroturfing a secret.  I recall when the Playstation 3 was released, a lot of professional youtube videos came up mocking it (a lot were hilarious).  A lot of commenters on boards dedicated to video games brought up all kinds of BS about the system.  It was pretty clearly an astroturf campaign, but it was hard to identify what was legit and what wasn't.  I also recall that Halo 3 alien astroturfing (a bunch of UFO sightings... it was pretty cool). 

Does Pepsi do this to Coke?  Does Toyota do this to Chevy?   It's so hard to tell.  The few companies that have been tied to astroturfing are excoriated as soon as it's discovered, but I think it's far more universal that the public realizes. 

Sure as shit though, and company that pays these fuckers is not going to see much of my money.... if I ever find out about it.

Ace brings up a critical point... this voiceover lady is extremely rare.  It's probably a personal friend of Axelrod, and if we an figure out who the hell it is, we will be able to crack this nut open.  Who paid her to do this work?

23 imagine if in the alternate universe of Ron Paul getting the nomination, what the dems would've done to him.  and got away with since much of it would've been true or close enough to true.

24 Good luck and Godspeed. My only fear is that The Deciders will spike this.

Now, in order to avoid having to mention this connection, they may just spike the videos as well.

But, this needs to be flooded to all of the bigwigs. What about FNC?

25

BTW it is screamingly illegal to use front groups or subcontractors to avoid disclosure of campaign expenses.  If Axelrod did not pay Winner, Winner could still be nailed for making and not reporting an in-kind contribution to the Obama campaign, if it can be proven that its people used company equipment and company time to produce and upload the video.  If Ethan Winner has already maxed out on his cash contributions to Obama, then this would constitute an illegal in-kind contribution.

Someone needs to immediately file a complaint with the FEC against the Winners.

26

yeah, yeah, media embargo, etc.

still, nice work by the blue team on this one.

[pat pat on the head for Dr. Shackleford, et al.]

Oh, and why not hit the tip jar, fellas?

27 Check out who Winner and Associates have helped out in the past...

http://www.winnerandassociates.com/banner.htm

Some pretty prominent businesses...

28 Seriously: this seems convoluted, but the right person could boil it down to 15 seconds of exposition.

Don't "give up" on it just because it involves three parties. This is exactly the kind of dishonestly that people are worried about. Let em know what's happening and who is paying for it.

29

Axlerod?  From Guns and Roses?  What a cunt cocksucker.

Interesting stuff.  Now if we can just get a reporter to put them on the spot...

30 Let's keep in mind some of the other astroturf work these Winners have done:

They worked for Valerie Plame... and most of us realize that the general public was deeply misinformed about who leaked her name (not Scooter Libby), and the nature of her husband's work product/lies.

They worked to get the EU constitution ratified... something that takes a lot of power from the people and is democratically unpopular.

Did they also work for Fannie Mae?  Did they work for CAIR?  We'll probably never know.

31 Holy shit, Eeyore, thanks for that link!

32 shill, even if the voiceover lady is a Marxist who "volunteered" her time to help the cause, you basically can't donate professional services for anything that supports or opposes a candidate.  It is an in-kind contribution and must be reported.  I have a modicum of experience with this stuff and have actually worked for a PAC that was fined several thousnad dollars by the FEC for failing to report in-kind contributions.  It's a common error but ther law is very clear.

33 Book 'em Danno!

34 rockmom, your comments on that in-kind contribute stuff are really good thoughts.  You're right... I think this is a great avenue to take and a complaint should be lodged.

35 Joe Marier is here quickly at Ace and the Jawa Report to say: you got nothin'.

Odd, that.

36 We can't talk here.  Those 2 GE Profile machines on the right are listening with bated breath. 

37 average voter will probably say "Who is axlerod"

That might be true, but I knew who he was when he was introduced as a talking head a year + ago and he's been on ALOT.  Plus a bunch of publications have done glowing pieces on him from back in teh hillary-obama days to make him look as smart as the clinton machine.  Speaking of, this is a story that the PUMAS can really effectively use.

Thanks for the skull Ace, this a is fan-freakin-tastic piece.

38

Rockmom I think putting up an "information" video wouldn't count as in kind contribution.  Doesn't mention Obama, it just is a smear of Palin.  Could just be that someone doesn't like her, or maybe they are Bob Barr people.  Without saying "because of this you need to vote for Obama" I think they would be okay.  As long as it wasn't paid for or coordinated with the Obama campaign. 

And even if it was coordinated, they could probably use that electioneering thing as a technicality. 

 

 

 

39

Love seeing the Flame Skull.

Happy!

 

40 Good point rockmom.

41 Goddamit. The AFP is still pushing the "Our troops are on a mission from God" lie. It's like a goddam zombie, or the fucking electric car, it just won't die.
Link here: (via Breitbart)
http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=080921014654.oudqyxrc&show_article=1

42 btw the red font headline manages to pithily get the story across. 

43

jeez, look at that client list!  Big Oil!  Indian tribes!  Con Ed (a/k/a Tom Ayers, father of Bill Ayers and patron of one Barack Hussein Obama)! 

Also Akin Gump is a huge Democratic law and lobbying firm.  Bob Strauss (former DNC chair) was a founder of that firm.

44 All of this will aggressively ignored by the main stream media as it conflicts with their goal of getting Jesus Obama elected.

45 blaster, you could be right, but I think it's arguable enough to lodge a complaint and see who paid for this.  If they lie about it, that's a serious crime itself.  And given that the woman voice talent is NOT a Bob Barr person, but rather an Obama person, I think that helps a bit.

For Mccain to attack Obama, but say absolutely nothing about whether you should vote for him or not, I think is still electioneering.  That's my argument that this ad is indeed electioneering.

46 Here's another link to Winner Madaback  - they help out with election campaigns....

http://www.wmcampaigns.com/homepage.htm

Someone should look into this business...I bet they are also involved...

47

37 average voter will probably say "Who is axlerod"

That might be true, but I knew who he was when he was introduced as a talking head a year + ago and he's been on A OT. 

Good point. However, who knew who Karl Rove was in 2000? If this is pulled off correctly, we can turn Axelrod into a verb.

48

43.......Yep.  But here we are a bunch of like minded folk just wondering WTF?  How the hell do we get our point out!?!  While they have all of hollywood and the press to do it for them. 

Do you ever say to yourself "Fuck it....let them get what they deserve, I'm moving to a country they swore they would when W got eletcted the second time?  I have. 

They are looking better and bettter latley.  Want to buy a bar? 

49 blaster, if you connect the sockpuppets, whose comments make it clear that the video is meant to promote the Obama campaign, to the producers of the video you have a reportable in-kind campaign contribution.  I'm not an election lawyer but I think I could make the case pretty easily given what I know about the law. 

50

That's some serious research.

The only way I see this thing taking off is if it can be dumbed down for the MSM. Their laziness and insanity will prevent them from doing research. It has started on the blogs, maybe it will be picked up by talk radio (hopefully) and perhaps it takes off from there.

51 You guys have nothing. Nothing I tell you.
Please.
What's next: going to tie David Kernell to David Axlerod?

52 Um, no.

53

Your right

 

54 http://www.wmcampaigns.com/homepage.htm

Someone should look into this business...I bet they are also involved...

Good call.

55

We have nothing.  Our leaders are weak.

We are doooooooooomed.

 

No really..

We have nothing. This is it?  This it what ace wanted a lawyer about election shit for?

Damn.  I was so hopeful.

56 And don't forget to send to Rush.... I have.

57 oxrock, the US is the last best hope.  If you cede ground here, you are giving up on humanity.  What's the point of even having a life if it isn't spent doing some good, and at least being an aware and vibrant person?  Fight back!  It is overwhelming that the dems fight dirty and get away with lies.

I read the NYT story about how Mccain lied about Obama's sex ed for K-12... except he didn't.  I read the stories about Trig in the NYT.  Even worse stories show up in the Atlantic and Time... all of them insist Mccain is 'over the top' for telling inconvenient truths, and pardon Obama for lying all the time.  It sucks.  But the left is paying a price for it.  There's a reason CBS is the lowest ranked news... because everyone knows they are full of shit.  There's a reason MSNBC is the lowest ranked... same.  Also, papers are dying.  It's going to be an Army of Davids world, manipulated by the left in the fashion Axelrod likes, sure, but as the populace figures that neat trick out, it will backfire.

Americans have been on a path against the democrats for about 15 years now... it's only a long unpopular war, and a president who has failed to sell it well that have curbed the movement.  I think the media bias and dirty tricks will ultimately harm the democrats badly.  I have faith that America will not buy into this shit.

58

I see humor .... The Winners becomes the losers?

Or is it the whiner? ....

59 Can't they all just say, "Yeah, we just made it ourselves... we've worked with Obama and we like him... we teamed up for this ad"??

60 Let's get 'em boys. The networks are NOT going to cover this so it's up to us to get this out there. Great work to everyone involved. WOW, just really great work!

61 Ace, as a longtime reader, a big fan, and one of the original and most beloved commenters on this blog, I just want to express on behalf of all the other regulars my profound disappointment in the direction you've been taking your posts of late. This partisan (and shockingly vulgar!) tone surprises and saddens me. I wasn't going to say anything when you crudely insulted Sullivan; I know that, for Christians like us, hating on gays is fair game. But now, when you're just attacking innocent people right and left, people who probably just live in David Axelrod's neighborhood and maybe their kids go to school with his kids, and this is supposed to prove something. Is this just your way of avoiding dealing with the hard truths, like about how John McCain wants to cut off social security payments to the elderly? Shameless lies and vicious character assassination are the last things I expected to see on this blog, and are indeed the last things I will see, because I for one will not read this anymore! You've let this longtime, dedicated fan down for the last time, Mr. Spade. For shame.

62 If what rockmom says about in-kind contributions is correct, I find it puzzling that a big-time PR group wouldn't know this was un-kosher, and, if they did know, would signup at youtube using easily deciphered names.

63 Oh, Yeh, that is my first ever website at the link.  Yes.  I own a bar.  Yes it does well.  Yes more so lately, but I'm in redneckville 'cause I'm a redneck.  Yes I have guns, dogs, kids, etc....Yes, I'm a right of center libertarian....But, this does no good to get us all pissed to be....well ya know...blown off by MSM.  Just sayin'

64 Good stuff Ace.  Glad I stayed up.  G'nite all.

65 I've said this before, sorry if you've heard it. Team McCain seems pretty up front and in your face when it rips into Team Obama. E.g. Sarah Palin hit Obambi in the face with his bull crap "community organizer" resume item. And how did he hit back? With a deniable reference to lipstick on a pig.

Mr. Obama fights like a backstabber.

Astroturfing is just a tactic, but it is a lying one, predicated upon the false impression that public support is more than the hired criers of Winner & Associates.

66

Having been a long-time staunch Christian conservative for many years, I've long supported the Republican Party and John McCain.

Lately, however, I've become concerned about the sleazy, dishonest tactics of the McCain campaign, which has resorted to the Karl Rover tactic of accusing Obama of hiring a PR firm to spread Astroturf smears.

This hateful racism, must end!

67 I'm just a longtime lurker, but I totally agree with that Kevin guy.

68 They can try it but if a complaint is filed they have to prove  that it is not a reportable in-kind contribution.  The burden of proof is on the respondent.  Using a professional voice that has been used extensively by Axelrod's firm and the Obama campaign was reeeeeeeally dumb.

69 oh man, rockmom, you are a smart lady.

Those youtube comments indeed were Obama supporting and clear electioneering, and at least several of them were incontrovertibly linked to the video...

This is a campaign contribution, unless Obama paid for it.

To those who think this is 'nothing'... the public reacted fiercely to the attacks on Sarah and her family (note that eswinner attacked Palin's husband in one of his comments, BTW).  They think this was a bunch of cranks on the internet.  What will they do if they find out that Axelrod's personal friend voiced Obama's ads, these ads, and apparently no other ads?  What if they find out that Axelrod and Obama are very closely linked to the people who made these extremely dishonest attacks?  I think they will realize that Obama's smirking and asking his people to lay off Palin was bullshit.

You know, it only takes a few thousand votes in one or two states to win this election.  Obama is on very shaky ground with his honesty.  If he can't deny he is astroturfing, I think he will start to have serious credibility problems if this story gets to the public.

70

Posted by: Kevin at September 22, 2008 01:25 AM (Eu/Um)

 

A joke or one of them astroturfy things?  Kevin is a common "one-word" name.  He did throw in the "Christians like us" comment.

Regarding the article - I read it carefully - it needs tightening up a bit but it is a good start.  Now we need us some moles. 

What I cannot get my head around is why such DIABOLICAL people would use their own names for this stuff?  Ego?  I can assure you that my first name is not Hawaii and my last name is not Laywer (altho I happen to be a Hawaii Lawyer).

71

Shill,

Anothe drink and I'm back onboard!  What can I do?  Here is my real email:

rocky at rockysbardotnet.

Of course you gotta pars it.

72  VIDEO IS GONE!!!

This video has been removed by the user.

73 Thank you for, uh, "getting the truth out."

74 Send this to Bill Clinton. He'll get it out in the media. Axelrod astro-turfed Hillary too! The only way the media picks this up is if Democrats raise a huffy fit and there is a civil war. Send it to Ferraro. And Penn. Concerned Democrats Against Chicago Politics and Astro-turfing Unite. CDACPAU!

75 Comment in peach color was:
This video has been removed by the user.

76 Next step: This needs to be whittled down to a paragraph or two explanation. People have short attention spans and this can't be explained in a reasonable amount of time.

77 Killed one video.  So in the morning no story.  Blah

78 Winners Fake All

79 What I cannot get my head around is why such DIABOLICAL people would use their own names for this stuff?

Arrogance.  You don't think the other side will figure it out, and for your side is good for business to show effectiveness.  They didn't count on Rusty, bane of the jihad.

80
Hope and Change!

81 Why's everthing red?

82 They already pulled the youtube down? I thought it was posted by concerned citizens, why would they be a fraid?

83 DOES IT HAVE TO BE ALL RED ?????

84 Yeah, what Paddy said!!!

85 Op- the whole blog goes red.

86 Heh.  Everything went red!

87 Ummmm... doesn't pulling everything down tend to indicate guilt?

88 Concerned Citizens! They're just concerned, folks! Like those concerned Christians.

89 Eh.....a big whatever, IMO.

Let me be clear: this is indeed a real scoop.  And in a just world, this would be front-fucking-page news tomorrow, Drudge would be sirening it 24/7, the NY Times would be bashfully forced to address (and make excuses for) it in a lead editorial in a couple of days, etc. etc.

But you know what?  This shit is just too friggin' complicated and abstract to break through the media Wall of Obama.  They've already settled on their narrative -- "MCCAIN IS RUNNING DIRTY THIS YEAR ZOMG WHAT HAPPENED 2 TEH DOOD WE LUVVED IN 2000??" -- and this isn't going to shatter that. 

I hope, I pray that I'm wrong.  But seriously: try to sum this scandal up in one brief sentence.  You can't really do that, can you?  Unless you can, you're fucked in a liberal/Democrat media environment where us on the right don't have the horsepower to drive news cycles absent active participation by the MSM.  Rathergate was EASY to boil down into a eyeball-poppin' lede: "DAN RATHER USES FORGED DOCUMENTS IN ATTEMPT TO SMEAR PREZ."  Kerry's amazing adventures in Vietnam were similarly reducible: "KERRY IS A TRAITOROUS LYING JACKASS, FELLOW VETERANS CHARGE."  How are we going to package this shit?  Astroturfing doesn't rock front-pages anywhere.

Sorry to go all Allahpundit on y'all.  The investigative work here is very solid, and I have absolutely no doubt whatsoever that the conclusions Rusty (& Ace) draw are 100% correct.  I just don't think they're going to result in more than a ripple in the water.

90 Apparently this is a Code Red.

91 Here's my comment from Rusty's site; same kudos to Ace and crew: Nice work. If nothing else it'll make 'em work harder looking over their shoulder when they spread future smears. Plus now we can ask all the new trolls, "hey, are you a winner or just a run-of-the-mill douchebag?" capitano | 09.22.08 - 1:38 am | #

92 When Obama ran for the Senate in '04, he faced Jack Ryan - The Chicago Trib and an ABC station pushed for the custody records (which were sealed in CA) to be opened, and they were, which resulted in Ryan pulling out of the Senate race (they revealed issues that Ryan and his ex - actress Jeri Ryan - had during their marriage).  Questions were raised about who really pushed the Trib and the ABC station to open the records...care to guess who use to work for the Trib before helping the One with is campaign...David Axelrod.

My best guess...Axelrod's fingerprints are all over this shit.

93 red tags open

94 UPDATE TO MY EARLIER POST:

Well, the fact that the videos were just taken down...that's some funny suspicious shit right there.  I watched the video myself...it was FOUL in its sickeningly false innuendo re Palin & the AIP.  Hmmm....

95 Proof of wrongdoing:

Ethan S. Winner and his crew have removed most of the traces of their handiwork from Youtube.

96 There is still this:

http://www.youtube.com/user/eswinner

'Offering a fair and unbiased view towards life and politics'

What a joke!

97 This is going to be fun! Do you think anyone in the MSM will cover it?

98

LMAO, if they pulled the videos then they know they are BUSTED.  Who wants to sign the FEC complaint with me tomorrow?

 

99

Jeff,

No, it's not.  Let me be clear:  IT'S A VIRAL VIDEO.  YOUTUBE.  MOST VOTERS BESIDES US ON THE INTERWEBS DONT EVEN KNOW WHAT YOUTUBE IS EXCEPT THEY HAD THEM REMOVED ONCE.

So, no. This is not a game changer worthing of the flaming skull. 

100 I must be indulging in too much of the evil grape - the posts are still black to my eyes.  No red font.

101 This partisan (and shockingly vulgar!) tone surprises and saddens me.

I, too, am fucking shocked by all the profanity around here.

Can this be tied back to Obama?  I would be utterly amazed if that were the case.  But in kind contributions are a huge pain in the ass and using cutouts to try to insulate makes it worse.  Is all of this proof?  No.  But it smells fishy.

Let's give this the most innocent possible spin - these were a group of individuals acting on their own, using their professional skills.  Well, from my vague understanding, that's still an in kind contribution.  For example, I couldn't give free legal advice to a candidate.  I'd have to report it as a contribution.  Same here.  I could be very wrong on that, but that's my understanding of how the rules work.

102 I agree with Jeff B. that the media is unlikely to help much with this. Bias will rear its ugly head.

103 Ace - screencap the login times of these guys who are wiping their accounts.  (in case you aren't - you probably way ahead of that)

104

Well, despite Ace's warning that this would be a "medium level" kind of story, I was hoping it would be something that would shift the narrative, which this does not.

Any moron with a pulse on the rightwing blog-o-sphere already knows about the astroturfing of just about every online means of information distribution.  As this stands right now, this seems to be a wash.  IIRC, the FEC is still short a few members, thanks to our good friends in Congress and, even if they can investigate the complaint, and determine it to be a violation, the findings and penalties will not come down until after the election.

Still, this might nerf this particular method of attack.  Or better yet, the diggers may hit more damaging evidence.

Good work by those involved, even Ace.

105 But seriously: try to sum this scandal up in one brief sentence.




Obama Connected PR Firm Produces, Uploads Lying Anti-Palin Ad on YouTube, Then Pushes it Virally as "Grassroots" Effort; PR Exec Sockpuppets Praise Video for "Getting the Truth Out;" Company Employee Uploads it On Democratic Underground and Urges Readers to Send it Out to Ten People Each

106

LMAO, if they pulled the videos then they know they are BUSTED.  Who wants to sign the FEC complaint with me tomorrow?

 Count me in RockMom.  Love your stuff on HA.

107 Well, that didn't take long. (videos taken down)

108 The media will never cover this unless Bill and  Hillary get up in arms that Axelrod's astro-turfing stole their nomination. When Bill was getting ripped by Obama folk for being a racist did curious YouTube videos appear?

109 koopy@105 = fail

110 it's going to get more play than some of you think.  People who know people are pushing the story hard to Limbaugh, Ingraham, Hannity, Coulter, Levin, etc.

The story isn't just the videos-- that's just the first big break in it.

111 Jeff B, your hesitance to show glee here is not unwise, but I can sum this up:

Axelrod is behind a lot of the smears against Palin and her family.

You're absolutely right that the media will try to ignore this in their twisted lie that Mccain is lying about sex ed and whatever else he isn't lying about.


Folks, the youtube videos are only half of an astroturf campaign.  Comments on blogs and other sites are the other big part of it.  I'm curious about the Concerned Conservative Schtick the Ace attacked and how similar it sounded to Concerned Americans.  I hope an investigation of these youtube videos, now deleted suspiciously, also looks into other activities.  Did the Winners pay folks/computers to spam boards with 'I'm a conservative Obama supporter' crap?   There isn't a chance in hell we'll find out, but it's interesting to think about.  Imagine if Mccain was spamming liberal boards as PUMAs.

112 Fade to black.  Everythings been back to black for a while.  Why did it go red in the first place though?

113 Sometimes I wonder if someone didn't lay out a sum to Andrew Sullivan to push certain ideas. Which if they seemed too whacko could be blamed on himself.

Sully - suffering from severe cognitive decline, like a fox.

114 Beautiful work. Absolutely.

115 >>>Can this be tied back to Obama?  I would be utterly amazed if that were the case.

Oh?  They just happened to get hold of Obama's and Axelrod's (apparently) exclusive-contract voice-over gal, huh?

Not buying that.

116 But seriously: try to sum this scandal up in one brief sentence.

PR firm linked to Obama's campaign manager apparently responsible for dissemination of knowingly false Palin smears.

117 I wonder how many people thought Charles Johnsons overlapping comparisons of the Bush documents in '04 would get picked up by the media? Not many i imagine. This is exactly the sort of thing the conservative blogosphere should be doing.

118 ESWINNER signed in 18 minutes ago.

119 The story isn't just the videos-- that's just the first big break in it.

Mwah!

120 Wow I cannot believe they took the video down already.  Hee hee this is fun.

121 Ace,

"A friend in Hollywood put the voice out to people in the voice over industry. No one could ID her."

She might not be in Hollywood. She's probably in Chicago.

I found a possible match. Check your email.

122 The sex ed thing really chaps my hide. I heard storms and rants "LIES LIES LIES" and was distressed. Then I read the statute.


And Obama voted yes on it. So that ad was true, and the rants were false.

123 I don't know, as a christian, I am concerned about what digging too deep into grassroots efforts will achieve.

124

I smell Chris Lehane's dirty hands in this too.  Winner is a California outfit and that's where Lehane is.  He has a direct pipeline to the New York Times, which would explain this Palin smear getting immediate Page 1 treatment there without eeven cheking Sarah Palin's atual voter registration records.  The sources in the NYT article come straight from that video.  Lehane doesn't have the astroturfing history, but he does have the history of spreading bullshit to the big news outlets, like the "RATS" ad in 2004. 

Oh yeah, I also have long believed that Lehane was deeply involved with Valerie Plame and Joe Wilson while he worked for the Kerry campaign. There's your connection with the Winners. 

125 Is there any reason that someone can't take the video from you tube and ad copy to it to the effect that " This video has been traced to So and So". It seems to me that the video alleging impropriety would be more popular than the native video.
I don;t know about that stuff But;
You Morons are pretty sharp.

126 #118, heh.

It's getting ahead of things, but I hope that sucker is rewarded with some Jail and then maybe a yacht-bracelet.

127 Here's a little video 'bout it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gFuBwsu2OeU

128 koopy@105 = fail

Try reading the title of this post genius.

129 118 ESWINNER signed in 18 minutes ago.

what a dickhead to have used his fucking initials and name

130

Remember it's not that late on the West Coast.

Hi, fellas!  Change your underwear yet?

131 Naw, but it's Monday morning here. 

132

As a concerned DailyKos moby who specializes in surrepticiously inserting archaic racial codewords and phrases into threads on Rethuglican blogs, I must confess that this looks like a pretty legit scoop, one that could do real damage to some of my astroturfers-in-arms.

 

133 the video is still up on the gocamerica account. well, for now

134 http://www.youtube.com/user/eswinner?

Go there and post comments if you have a youtube account.

I just posted:

So what was your role in the 1984 anti-Percy ad? Axelrod should have hired people who could cover their tracks better. I guess good help is hard to find.

135 Can someone explain to me the logic in pulling the ad? I mean isn't that admitting something unseemly possibly criminal is taking place?

136 Well, that didn't take long. (videos taken down) Someone apparently never told these rookies about the "it's not the crime, it's the coverup" thing.

137 Is the VO artist Canadian?

138

As a concerned bar owner and a pretty well buzzed drunk on something....I'm Damn Disappointed.  This was much ta-do about nuttin. 

That "ad" they put up was transparentantly doctored.  Not the tone which I want this campaign to be run. 

 

139 Just wondering about the accent.

140 http://www.youtube.com/gocamerica

141 The pulled videos, almost instantaneously disappeared with the release of the story, scream "busted." A real grassroots production would have remained.

Good work, ace et al.

Getting everyone to notice might be tricky, as is anything the MSM has absolutely no interest in investigating, but if the dextrosphere can open source the topic and break through to, for example, FOXNews Hume's "Grapevine" segment, then maybe the astroturfing component of Team Obama/Axelrod will be exposed for the real, nasty endeavor that it is.

Is this a message that can be delivered in a few soundbites and supercede the smear campaign that is already underway against McCain/Palin? I dunno, but if I can help, I will. I'll set aside some time to work this issue in my own little realm. If I can produce something constructive, I'll pass it along. Don't expect much because, well, I'm a moron. But a whole herd of morons can usually fire a neuron or two.

142 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yfBS3kPtsog - get it quick, before it gets disappeared

143 Thankyou Barack for clarrifying,.

144

From #116

"PR firm linked to Obama's campaign manager apparently responsible for dissemination of knowingly false Palin smears."

I can work with that tho' I will moron up the wording some.

145

I've seen comments at Politico and the Washington Post from Obamabots who think this stuff is true or at least are still peddling it, so it's important for us to discredit this video and its producers even if we can't prove they were paid by Axelrod to do it.  And hopefully we can make this charge stick to Axelrod anyway, the way the Left has stuck Karl Rove with everything but global warming.

146 I bet Mr. Winner's blackberry is getting a little tired of all the damn calls tonight!

147 Oh?  They just happened to get hold of Obama's and Axelrod's (apparently) exclusive-contract voice-over gal, huh?

That really didn't come out the way I meant it to and I apologize.  I meant that I would be amazed that they were stupid enough to leave evidence (emails, checks, copies of scripts, etc) connecting this directly to Axelrod/Obama out and about.  Though I shouldn't underestimate the capacity for stupidity. 

I don't doubt that Axelrod's behind this.  I simply don't want to get my hopes up that there's a smoking gun out there.

I didn't mean to minimize the work you've done and I'm sorry for creating that perception.

148

I would comment about this, but my shitty Lenovo computer has been fucking up alot lately. I wouldn't recommend their products to anyone. And, yes, I'm working on my own time right now.

149 the way the Left has stuck Karl Rove with everything but global warming

What?  You're breaking my heart!  He's not responsible?  Please tell me at least that it was Cheney's doing so I can rock myself to sleep tonight.

150 Ace --

>>>Can this be tied back to Obama?  I would be utterly amazed if that were the case.

Oh?  They just happened to get hold of Obama's and Axelrod's (apparently) exclusive-contract voice-over gal, huh?

Not buying that.

Yeah, but obviously alexthechick's point isn't "oh noes, is Obama really behind this??"  I think all of us agree that the Obama campaign (specifically Axelrod) is behind this shit.  Her question -- and mine as well -- is whether there will be sufficient evidence to tie this motherfucker to Barack and Axelrod and let 'em sink like a stone.  And the sad fact is, I don't think so...at least on the evidence provided.  And even if solider evidence were to show up later, would it be enough to breach the Wall of Obama?  I doubt it. 

You have to keep in mind, however, that I was one of those guys who thought that Rathergate would never get exposed in the MSM, even though I was white-hot convinced of the outright EVIL of Rather & Mapes et al. in that affair.  So I'm something of a pessimist (an "Allahpundit," as they say) on these issues.

151 Do any of you morons have voice comparison software?

Sunflower over at MyPetJawa has found a professional voice over artist Donna Reed that sound awfully familiar.

http://www.spotcomm.com/

I suppose someone could just call her in the morning as well to get confirmation.

152

First, major congratulations to Ace, Dr, R, Shackelford, and all who worked on this report.

I think that this story is bigger than mid-level, and posted so at LGF (yay me).

I will point out again, here, that this affair, if true (and I think it is), brings in to question the viability of an Obama Presidency. ( B.I.G.)

Specifically, would Candidate Obama, if elected, be given truthful and complete information at all briefings?

How can we, or he, be sure? 

We see the sort of people Obama associates with, has associated with for decades, and the nature of the relationships: mentoring & guidance (Wright), home ownership opportunities (Rezko), business and political opportunities (Ayres).

Now there's a strong link to Axelrod and the Winners (is this a joke name?)

America, we have a problem.

Back to the discussion last night for a moment, I'm betting that, given the profile of the Winners, there's probably several hundred people within 50 miles of their home(s) / boat dock(s) / place(s) of business just waiting to tell all the dirty truths about these people, to anyone who can broadcast them.  It's simply a matter of research, advertising, and anonymity.

This report is truly a gift that will keep on giving.

 

153

And again....Don't get too excited...Them MSM doesn't give a rats ass.  Video on You Tube?  Peee fucking Shaaa.

 

 

154 I love this!

This evening, I finished a paper on how the Internet influences politics...then this story breaks.  What an evening!!!

155 135 Can someone explain to me the logic in pulling the ad? I mean isn't that admitting something unseemly possibly criminal is taking place?

They think since it's gone, there is no story, nothing to see or link to. But I'm thinking someone would have anticipated that. Has the FEC already been contacted? HMM...

156 Unfortunately Sarah Palin cannot sue whomever knowingly and maliciously published false attacks against her. But she would win the lawsuits if she filed. She can prove actual malice and overcome the burdens the SCOTUS has placed on public figures.

I'd love to see those discovery efforts and the Feds aren't so nice if you try to hide evidence (like pulling YouTube videos).

The big question here is how to get into a discovery-type phase in this story after it hits all the blogs and talk radio. I'd love to see that.

157

@ #144:

Jim Treacher (in post #7 already has the NewYork Post headline written:

Winners Fake All

158 You are the man Ace !!!!

159 first, don't congratulate me, I had nothing to do with it. I tried to get lawyers for the story but I wound up taking the weekend off and so i flaked on the one thing I was doing.

Dan Riehl at Riehl world view contributed with a couple of connections made.

But it's all rusty besides that.

I'm just pushing the story, that's all.

160 How about this:

Obama's New Kind Of Campaign:
Obama-Linked Firm Trying To Bury Evidence It Smeared Palin, Broke Election Laws

161 Does the voiceover artist also sound like this?

162 A few points:

These crazy anti-palin videos are watched by all sorts of lefttards in the media. That's what they stay up late at night doing. Thats why this crap keeps coming out of their mouths while reporting--they saw it on youtube and just think it's true.

Tom Brokaw was left leaning in his politics, but he didn't spend his weekends breathlessly reading Kos.

163 This really needs to go to "Best of the Web" author James Taranto.

He is widely read and is often the source of Brit Hume's Grapevine stuff.

164 Yeah, but obviously alexthechick's point isn't "oh noes, is Obama really behind this??"

Oh thank heavens someone understood, I mean it was clear in my head but the transmission between my mindthoughts and keyboard is sometimes less than optimal. 

165 If I heard Brit Hume reading something of Ace's, I think I may die of sheer and utter glee.

166 If the video is gone, I hope somebody captured the damn thing for posterity.

Unless we're as stupid as David Kernell.

167 and there's the note.  sorry I missed that.  thanks for the video.

168 Is the voice talent Anne Gartlen?

http://www.annegartlan.com/

169

If you listen to the audio for the NY Radio at qwwerty1's spotcomm link in Comment #151, it sounds an awful lot like the ad's voiceover woman. (And I didn't recongnise the voice from any Canadian media or advertising source, SarahW, although I don't listen to radio at all. And even if your query was a joking one.)

170 Bull Shit.  MOVE ON PEOPLE.  We've got winnging candidates.  Intertube videos do not conntect with whom we need to winn over.  People do.  Go Get Em.

171 pianobuff found it first

172 http://www.youtube.com/user/gocamerica: ACCOUNT DELETED!

173

One of the You tube comments at eswinners are going to get good. http://www.youtube.com/user/eswinner

example:

prnd3825 (23 minutes ago) As a lifelong Democrat, and a Christian, I'm concerned that the videos that you posted contained lies. Do you have any comment on this?

174

The big question here is how to get into a discovery-type phase in this story after it hits all the blogs and talk radio. I'd love to see that.

Posted by: Nom de Blog at September 22, 2008 02:09 AM (nOQ1R)

I don't know doodly squat about election law - but I do know how to get to the discovery phase :-)

 

175 No - good job ace. You were part of the team. Free-lancers everywhere will take this info and build upon it.

176

One more time, one more glass of wine.  MOVE ALONG...Nothing to see here.  We've dissected a dead frog here. 

177 I'm not really expecting this to be anything because my ear isn't good enough. And I'm sure VO artists sound a lot alike.

But Deborah Self seems to share traits of the VO artist in question.

Here's a big long list of edge studio female VO artists by characteristics; I picked the Self sample because of the voice description in the table.

Also the voice over is similar to Rachel Robinson, but she's extremely well known.

178 Orock, you keep telling us that we shouldn't be interested in this story... that it's no big deal.  We'll just stipulate that you think this isn't a big deal, ok?  You don't need to say the same thing again.

And I disagree.  This is a medium-big story, especially since it appears a crime has taken place.

If Axelrod is indeed involved, it is a huge story and will rock the election.  You don't think the PUMAs will defend Palin if Obama is linked to the smears on her family?  They will.  And so will many other Americans.

I agree that our focus should be on why Mccain is a better leader than Obama.  You're right on that.  But if we don't push this story, no one will, and it needs to be heard and weighed by the people.

179 I find your lack of faith disturbing.   170 Bull Shit.  MOVE ON PEOPLE.  We've got winnging candidates.  Intertube videos do not conntect with whom we need to winn over.  People do.  Go Get Em.

Posted by: Orock at September 22, 2008 02:19 AM (CgVe3)

180 Hawaii,

Who would have cause to sue in this case? I'd love to get somebody into discovery but I only see Palin as an aggrieved party and she can't file what with being busy right now and all.

The press won't pick up on this until they have to do so. How can we force this information out of those responsible?

181

Good night and god bless.  Next time give me some news.  "Oh My Gosh a Leftist Posted An Intertube Video"

 

Man

 

I'm bored.

182 Deborah Self is in NY, Andy. Does she sound like the radio gal?

183 Ramms, its gone too!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yfBS3kPtsog

Guilty!!!!

184 Next time give me some news.  "Oh My Gosh a Leftist Posted An Intertube Video"

You took "An Obama-connected PR firm is pushing smears against Palin" and made it "A Leftist Posted a Video". Yeah...

185
Who ordered the Code Red?

Was it you?

186 oxrock is a point misser. It's a contribution that seems to have gone unreported in violation of FEC rules. To spread libels, on purpose, and hide who paid for it.

187 You may be aware of what a scumbag the Obama campaign is, but I think a lot of people have yet to learn.  That's part of this story... more people learning what depths Axelrod will sink to.  he's a truly evil person... and he's Obama's top man.  So it's not the largest story of the cycle.  Ace was honest about that.  But it's very interesting.

188

I hope and pray that this leads to stuff that can be proven and the media actually picks up on it.

But doesn't this just CHAP YOUR ASS???

These people are beyond sick. This is absolute proof that they will do ANYTHING to win. Obama's ACTUAL campaign spreading these lies about her. I just can't wrap my mind around it.

We cannot let these people win. We must win fair though.

 

189 So, the gocamerica account has been deleted and copies have been wiped off of YouTube. Yeah, that doesn't say "guilty".

190 We've dissected a dead frog here.

For a dead frog, it sure jumped out of the hot water real quick and deleted videos and accounts.

191 Anne Gartlan and Axelrod & Associates also appear in the same Directory of Grass Roots Lobbying Firms. (not conclusive, but hey....)

192 the above was directed as Oxrock

193 BTW, I am seriously hoping, Ace, that Rusty and y'all sent this off to important members of the McCain-Palin ticket and other places.

This is looking more and more like a goldmine. And the proof that there is malfeasance is in the coverup of the evidence.

Let us get these turkeybags.

194 Why were the videos pulled down? That's strange. I can't image pros ever putting themselves in a position where they would have to panic at a little finger pointing.

But if the story is not substantially true, why would all of the videos (a remarkable coincidence?) be pulled at once.

It's important to get Obama on the record--here is how. He needs to be asked by a reporter: "If this online smear campaign is tied back to David Axelrod, would you allow him to stay on your campaign?"

Make him answer the question before all the facts are in and public. He will presumably answer "no", but this creates the media justification for pursuing the story. It put's Axelrod on probation. And if more details come out it would force the firing, and Drudge level recognition of the scandal.

Right now I am afraid that media complicity can keep it under wraps, no matter how it develops.

Force Obama to put his cards on the table now.

195

Shill,\

We should be.  But, eh, to what...

So, another leftist hires a firm to produce videos espousing their candidate.  NEWS AT ELEVEN!

196 Ann Gartlan works in the  big leagues, and I don't think she's the voice.  She's Lifetime's voice, and the The Early Show's voice, and was The Today Show's voice for many years.

She still could be the one, but this was a disgusting ad, so she really did fuck up her career if it's her... and I think a lot of people would have recognized her 'in the industry' when Rusty inquired.

197 goamerica is dead. Account closed.

-----

This is interesting

http://www.worldfest.org/i


WINNER/WAGNER & ASSOC ALASKA TRAVELOGUE   FVP060 3GOLD     ETHAN WINNER WINNER/WAGNER & ASSOC   LOS ANGELES CA

198 Okay, rockmom makes a good argument.  I concede. 

Now flood the freaking zone.  Hannity?  Get it up on Hot Air.  And Michelle Malkin.  Glenn will at least give this a nod. 

Lucianne.com

I see it made it to FreeRepublic. 

If we can't get it into our media, we sure as heck can't get it in theirs. 

199 Is Oxrock a long time poster that I've somehow missed?  Same with Marier both here and at Rusty's.

The concern trolls are out tonight.

200 This isn't the grassroots campaign I once knew.

201 I thought Deborah Self was a prospect. It's a "typey" voice, though.

Link to Self Mp3

202 Lucianne has already been notified. Same thing with Michelle Malkin.

203 Ok. Ok. But will it be newsworthy?  Nope.  Hey, I love it here. Just a little disappointed in the hype for this one. 

204 Hit the easy,

If they are trolls, then they are doing a bad job.  We're all so aware (maybe paranoid) of sockpuppets that that kind of thing only motivates us.

Joe Marier has commented here a couple of times before, but it was stupid shit like "Nice." (whole comment).

I assume he doesn't want to see this story gain volume, but hey!

205 My concerned conservative husband is asking some questions, and just wants to know how I feel. Will I turn off the computer, and come hither, or possibly rethink his position on some hard subject.

206 199...no, I'm a long time lurker.  I'm a www.rightnation.us poster, although rarely there as well.  I've found my moron place here as I'm not quite right, but not middlen either.  If you don't know what I mean your not from around these parts are ya boy?

207 or will he have to. Dang it's late.

208 Oxrock, are you seriously repeatedly saying this isn't newsworthy?

If a lot of people are interested in it, and clearly they are, then it's fucking newsworthy.  Sheesh.  You sound like you're on a campaign.  Are you cleverly trying to motivate us by reverse psychology?

Apparently the Axelrod Winner confab thinks it's newsworthy enough to cover up, right?  Interesting, that.  There are a lot of other threads here, you know.  It's a big internet, full of stuff you like.  Check out the video linked to my name, for example.

209 I hope that voice over woman has a couple of big beefy bodyguards at her disposal. She's gotta be shakin in her boots right now knowing that the payment checks from this outfit that she deposited in her account are "evidence" and that she is a major connecting link to this scandal.

210 Oxrock is not a regular poster.
Joe Marier isn't either.

(Joe Marier does post at The Atlantic.)

211 Can someone explain to me the logic in pulling the ad?

Same logic that went into putting it up in the first place. None.

212 http://209.197.112.170/Lifetime

This directory belongs to Anne Gartlan, but I'm having a hard time finding any of her work linked to anything political (you can search for different clients by replacing 'Lifetime' with a different word, but it's case sensitive).  If anyone finds anything, post it.

213

If this is true, this is what I have to say.

A rich guy, with a staff is too stupid to find more than one cutout from himself.

The winner shit, is ridiculous.

It doesn't take a lot of effort to find out who I am, but you have to actually TRY.

This winner shit, is just too clear cut, are Dem's THAT fucking retarded?

Maybe it's Hubris.  I don't know, but, I'm not really an anonymous commentor/blogger, I just don't broadcast it.

And MY anonymity is pretty well maintained, cuz noone cares.  Seems that the winners's/losers would have been KINDA anonymous.

214 Damn, Ace. This is just like old times from four years ago. Let's hang the bastards!

215

182 Deborah Self is in NY, Andy. Does she sound like the radio gal?

Doh! After listening to all three audio posts in this thread, I think they all sound like the obviously-same-woman doing the genuine Obama ad and the anti-Palin smear "ad". "Typey" as you say, SarahW.

BTW, there's an LGF link at NewsBusters in an open thread there, so some of the conservative Net is already on it.

216 Shill,
Quit Rick rolling people. It's just, well, rude. Cocksucker. Tee hee hee.

217 Yes, I'm sayin' it's not newsworthy.  Hannity is gonna take the bate an run with it in his annoying way.  Rush will metion it.  But MSN?  Nope.

218 I just asked all eswinners friends to be my friend on facebook.

219 But MSN?  Nope.

You're kidding. Whether or not the channel of Democratic talking points covers it determines it newsworthiness?

220

Nom de Blog

Neither are you of late.  Gotta Link?

221 Shill - Al Gore, Jon Corzine, Leonard Boswell and a number of New York state candidates.

See here

222 Nom, I can't help it.  Sorry.

223 210 Oxrock is not a regular poster.
Joe Marier isn't either.

(Joe Marier does post at The Atlantic.)

Posted by: Nom de Blog at September 22, 2008 02:40 AM (nOQ1R)

Sigh.  Hate to be the one to tell you this: Other than you, Shill, Ace and maybe a dozen others, all the posters here are members in good standing of Obama's Cult of Creepy Toddlers.  And I'm not so sure about Ace.

 

224 Saw this over at Jawa - someone has edited Axelrod's wikipedia entry...trying to clean it up

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=David_Axelrod_%28political_consultant%29&diff=240163857&oldid=239928600

The rats are trying to hide their tracks...WE'VE GOT THEM ON THE RUN!

225 This is ridiculous.  You people are so immature ... and racist.  Really, really racist.

226 Arghhh.  No MSM does not determine newsworthyness.  Damn it man.  They won't cover it because it's K-2.

227 Oxrock,
I've been around for a long time, ass munch. I've pissed off plenty of people here so I'm well known. Take your wet fucking blanket and move the fuck along. There's nothing to see here so shut the fuck up and move the fuck along.

Shill,
I think it's funny. But you'll never get me twice. Fucker. Ha!

228 I'd love to get somebody into discovery but I only see Palin as an aggrieved party and she can't file what with being busy right now and all.

Posted by: Nom de Blog at September 22, 2008 02:25 AM (nOQ1R)

 

It's call defamation - which it is, even by the Public Person standards.  Just because she is apublic person does not mean she is devoid of rights.  This would constitute "defamation per se" as it cast aspersions on her profession and seeks to deprive her of a "business opportunity". Mrs. Palin does not have to draft the complaint herself so her busy schedule does not signify.

229 Disclaimer:  I was joking about the K-2.  Someone will take tha seriously in three two one

230 Just time stamping for posterity and uniformity:

06:42 AM 9/22/2008 GMT (01:42 AM EST) - Ace posts "Obama Connected PR Firm Produces, Uploads Lying Anti-Palin Ad on YouTube, Then Pushes it Virally as 'Grassroots' Effort..."

07:14 AM 9/22/2008 GMT (02:14 AM EST) - AD visits "eswimmer's" YouTube page; all 4 anti-Palin smear videos no longer available (removed by user, aka "eswimmer"); notes "eswimmer's last sign-in time to be "45 minutes ago"

06:29 AM 9/22/2008 GMT (01:29 AM EST) - "eswinner's" calculated last sign-in time


So, user "eswimmer" was already signed in just prior to Ace's posting and very soon thereafter had already deleted his anti-Palin videos. They were purged before 07:14 AM GMT.

Now that's a rapid response, particularly this late on a Sunday evening.

231 Why Red Stain, does this mean we're not friends? If we're not friends I just don't know if I could bear it.

It's true that neither of them is a regular commenter. Now what?

232 Saw this over at Jawa - someone has edited Axelrod's wikipedia entry...trying to clean it up

Isn't there a place you can look at the IPs of people editing Wiki info?  That could be interesting.

233 Conserned Christian?  You can call us racists, but don't you DARE!!! call us Longbowmen.

234

Oxrock,
I've been around for a long time, ass munch. I've pissed off plenty of people here so I'm well known. Take your wet fucking blanket and move the fuck along. There's nothing to see here so shut the fuck up and move the fuck along.

Shill,
I think it's funny. But you'll never get me twice. Fucker. Ha!

Wow....I'm ASS MUNCH...YEAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

235 Pianobuff, that's a very strong article.  I thought the voice was similar, and she says she has strong democratic views and refuses to do ads for Republicans. That says a lot.  Thanks for the link.

Someone should ask Anne Gartlan if she made this advertisement and if she was paid for it.  It's libelous and absurd.

236 I see nothing funny about Abu Al-Poopypants's name.  In fact it's quite common in my hometown.

237 Tom Ayers granddaughters' blog...

caution on commenting

238 What are the odds that the pussies at NRO will cover this? 

Maybe Geraghty? 

239

Nom,

I'm sure they are merely Concerned Christian Conservatives worried that this will go nowhere, just like that Dan Rather thing.

 

(You seriously thought I was mocking you? I was mocking them.)

240 Hawaii,
I'm a lawyer too. I know the law, I stayed in a Holiday Inn Express and I've even seen "Absence of Malice".

I just wonder if there is a way to get these scoundrels into a deposition.

241 Red Stain,
Got it. I'm slow. It's 3am. I'm giddy. And I'm drinking. Scotch.

242 Good work on all of this, guys. Especially you, Mr. Al-Poopypants.

243 The funniest thing here; I've been watching cnwinner's (read DAD's)  YouTube account - looks like es(winner) hasn't woken him up yet to give him the good news!! Probably sweatin' bullets.

244 Looks like two editors (Wallmoose and Travishing) have done edits in the last 24 hours...Travishing did the major reedit after Rusty posted his stuff...Wallmoose called him out for the wholesale editing.

245

Keep an Eye out though Nom, you still got your officially assigned Red crossbelt?

 

Good, Make sure they don't call us longbowmen.

246

I've been around for a long time, ass munch. I've pissed off plenty of people here so I'm well known. Take your wet fucking blanket and move the fuck along. There's nothing to see here so shut the fuck up and move the fuck along.

Shill,

That is so Gay.  Not that I have anything against gays.  The best bartender I ever had was gay.  But, just sayin'

"move along". Just that term is gay.

wet fucking blanket....how gay does that get?

I'm just saying that This is it?  Oh god we are fucked!  Yeh, you too gey tard shill

247 WP,
Feh.

248 Shill - for what it's worth, she also appears in a directory along with a listing for Winner & Mandabach.

249 Don't confine the $$ search to PR related companies!

Remember that $800K+ that Camp Obama paid out to an ACORN "subsidiary" in New Orleans? It was originally listed as campaign set-up expenses on the FEC docs, but later had to be "corrected" as having funded GOTV efforts. That's a lot of walkin' around money. If you're looking for folks who would be happy to launder Axelrod money, check out putative non-profits as well as other potentially grateful entities. Considering that KOS got the first copy of Obama's birth cert., he seems to have quite an in with the Obama PR team, himself.

250

I think I know why "Longbow" is such a sore spot here:  It is somebody's safe word. 

251 Dude, OxNutz.

con-TROLL yourself.

252 It's just unbelievably delicious.  Down to the knee-jerk yanking of the videos to confirm (as if there was any doubt) it's orchestration.  This is just awesome work you guys did.

253

 

254

199...no, I'm a long time lurker.  I'm a www.rightnation.us poster, although rarely there as well.  I've found my moron place here as I'm not quite right, but not middlen either.  If you don't know what I mean your not from around these parts are ya boy?

 

Well, I AM from these parts, son, and you are acting awfully suspicious. Almost like you're an astroturfer- a moby. A piss-poor one, at that. In case you can't see it, this is more than just "some leftist video".  It appears you have your heart set on convincing us that all Rusty has is a non-extant smear. Go ahead and keep trying. The exercise will do ya some good.

255

"Feh"

Good, Nom still has his crossbelt.

Everyoje keep an eye out for any insinuation that we are longbowmen, and any mention of agincourt should be treated as treason!

Also, no Heinlein till next monday.

256 My bad, I realize it now.  Marier is the actual Moby, Oxrock is just a sub-literate retard.

257 Gents & lasses:

Do your part and refrain from uttering your opinions on how this will or won't play out. Expressing these thoughts may make you feel better, but they do zilch to move the story along. Instead, make a contribution by suggesting connective tissue here. Some of you folks missed out on the fun and games with Dan R at the Abilene Kinko's, but I assure you the "throbbing memo" was by no means the only research that occurred on that story in the first 24 hours. Seriously, find a helpful link and research it as far as you can. That's how this thing gets legs and runs.

258 Even if the Jawas didn't find any connection to Winner or Publicis in an Obama campaign filing, as rockmom pointed out, that doesn't rule out the use of a cutout in between.  The campaign hires someone else as a consultant who hires Winner a level down and you never see it.  This doesn't have to be an in kind contribution, unfortunately.

259

Dude...Mr.Chumpo....I was in controll.  I still am...

 

Oxrock!  Come on. Do it right.

Look.  This is a non-issue.  Ask MSPMS, ABCCCCC, NBCCCCP, all of them.  It's not gonna matter. 

260 As a concerned liberal abortionist, I've always voted Democratic. These campaign irregularities are making me see the light, however, and I will be voting for Palin-McCain!

261 oxrock, I never said anything to you aside from noting that you think this isn't a big story, and therefore you should stop mentioning it so often and move on.

Why do democrats always resort to calling people 'gay'?  It's like the worst insult they can think of.  and Sandra Bernard thinks being raped by black men (of course it would be black men) would be the worst thing that she could fantasize happening to Sarah Palin, and 1 out of 3 white democrats won't vote for a black man, and Hillary Clinton found more sexism in her party than Palin found in hers.

It's kinda hilarrrrrrious.  I used to be a bartender before I grew up years ago.  I sucked at it because it's a frivilously stupid art to me (though I applaud anyone who is successful in the field).  All those silly drinks for girls and weak men.  If it isn't Beer or straight, why bother?  But I've always been a little dense. 

Now, am I a "gey tard shill"?  Well, I am 66% of that.

262 Funny Astroturfing video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gFuBwsu2OeU

263 oxrock, I never said anything to you aside from noting that you think this isn't a big story, and therefore you should stop mentioning it so often and move on.

Why do democrats always resort to calling people 'gay'?  It's like the worst insult they can think of.  and Sandra Bernard thinks being raped by black men (of course it would be black men) would be the worst thing that she could fantasize happening to Sarah Palin, and 1 out of 3 white democrats won't vote for a black man, and Hillary Clinton found more sexism in her party than Palin found in hers.

It's kinda hilarrrrrrious.  I used to be a bartender before I grew up years ago.  I sucked at it because it's a frivilously stupid art to me (though I applaud anyone who is successful in the field).  All those silly drinks for girls and weak men.  If it isn't Beer or straight, why bother?  But I've always been a little dense. 

Now, am I a "gey tard shill"?  Well, I am 66% of that.

264

still on google video

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7354195621145391349&hl=en

265 I hate to throw a wet blanket on things, but I don't think the FEC is going to be of any help.

IIRC, it can't manage a quorum because Democrats have blocked all of Bush's nominees. Accordingly, it's dead in the water.

266

As a Lifelong Archer, I have learned the errof of my ways, and will no longer used any method of propelling shafts made of ash, with metal tips into targets, or other arrows.

THANKS NOM!

267 Heh we broke the comment thingy.

268 Arbalest: are you suggesting a team of lawyers be sent? Who would do such a thing...

A toast to Rusty and company! I'll be sure to be on time for Rush in the morning and may check out Hannity on FNC in the evening. If there's a chance Sean's eyes will be shooting flames I want to see it live.

Of course the MSN won't say anything but who cares? Not everyone is tuned in there. Just because they won't say anything doesn't mean we shouldn't bother.

269 GACK!  I'm just being a jackass now.   First person to Agree is a crossing guard belt wearing pussy.

270

Well, I AM from these parts, son, and you are acting awfully suspicious. Almost like you're an astroturfer- a moby. A piss-poor one, at that. In case you can't see it, this is more than just "some leftist video".  It appears you have your heart set on convincing us that all Rusty has is a non-extant smear. Go ahead and keep trying. The exercise will do ya some good.

Lets meet.  Rocky at my bar. 3703 Gulf Beach Hwy 32507

 

Come on anyone else?  Oh Tues thru Thurs I work for Uncle Sam Fri thru Mon.

 

FUCK YOU IF YOU CANT BE THERe

271 Zettai Zetta @ 5 "It's already been sent to Drudge. We're ready to go" Boy o boy ra-Ace- you've got the whole bag of Tools pissing their pants about this freakshow of yours. Economy in the toilet; 2 wars; gas prices soaring; no credit available to recapitalize- and you got the Tools linin' up the ol Drudginator- gonna hunt yo-seff a little campaign possum, raght? Ra-Ace, you are well and truly swimming around in your own hubris. Meanwhile the adults in the nation- the folks who do the urban planning, the water & sewer inspections & repairs, work on budgets & human logistics for hospitals & international airports & schools & government administration buildings; the folks who pay the taxes the rich do not, and raise their children not to hate, and to pay attention to what matters, and that other children of different colors and different accents and with different religions aren't the "enemy" you keep drumming up here- the same kind of folks trying to work out the financial clusterfuck that morons like the Water Boy & that beat up McVain- the one who I won't call a has been because he's more of a never was- the one who can't find his way out of doorways without Nurse Palin's help - the one who the 75% of economists who have looked at the McVain Plan and are both sane and not lobbying for the McVain Campaign under Grumpy Gramm say is pretty much the same big stinky confused bag of poop you'd expect from McBlowhard - are responsible for putting together under "cutting the red tape" and your B Luvid "deeee republication/retardation/regulation. Ra-Ace? Tools? It's over. You're done.

272

good job to all involed.  Hopefully if the folks at hotair ever wake up they will push this story also.  I have posted several links from here and other blogs in one of their posts.  At least it is getting out.  5-6 blogs have it front page at the moment  including Lgf, redstate and pattrico among others.

I really don't think we need a smoking gun on this.  It continues the narritive of Obama the chicago politician.  It helps Palin fight the smears and it may just piss off a lot of hillary supporters as they ask themselves was this done to us?    don't get me wrong I would love the smoking gun too but with the connections to the dems of Palins email hack, the connections to the dems of Oreily's hack site  and now this the story is pretty clear.  good work to all involved.

 

273 Shill,
A real man can't drink his liquor on the rocks? The more you know...

WP,
Quit running with that arrow in your hand. You're going to put somebody's eye out.

274 First off, great work viz Rusty.

I think the tagline in 116/141 is good: PR firm linked to Obama's campaign manager apparently responsible for dissemination of knowingly false Palin smears though it'd also be nice if it said something about 'in probable violation of FEC regulations'

Really, anything that forces Axelrod or any of the Winner losers to open their mouths or touch their keyboards in defense of their actions is worthwhile in that it may shake loose more information that they'd prefer not to have on the record.

275 Which, by the way, shouldn't be seen as any criticism of the magnificence of this work, and my appreciation of the rats' scrambling to pull down any evidence of their deeds.

We may yet win in the court of public opinion....but I suspect the FEC is a lost cause.

276 There is a CORK on it Nom.

277

Lets meet.  Rocky at my bar. 3703 Gulf Beach Hwy 32507

 

Come on anyone else?  Oh Tues thru Thurs I work for Uncle Sam Fri thru Mon.

 

FUCK YOU IF YOU CANT BE THERe

 

A swing and a miss.

278 I just don't know what to say.  I find the whole thing just shocking.

Those of you who remember Watergate...

and the end result.

Who would have thought that such a little thing would bring down a president.

279

Ace's story  gets videos yanked and wiki edits in the middle of the night? That's striking a nerve.

More like this.

280 That guy has some really nice "favorites and friends" in his youtube account.

281 You know what's stupid?

Posters accusing other posters of being mobys, that's what's stupid.

Maybe oxrock is a lefty concern troll.  Maybe not -- I'm an open-hearted guy so I'm leaning towards not -- but you know what?  Everybody comes off looking rather douchy accusing folks like that of being plants.

And with that, I'm gonna put on my copy of Peter Gabriel 3 and curl up next to my already-sleeping girlfriend. 

Because, y'know, nothing guarantees a good night's rest as surely as having "Family Snapshot" and "Not One Of Us" blaring through your headphones as you spoon with a sleeping woman at 2:17 in the morning.  That's lullaby fuel, man.

282

I'm only worried that due to the end of the world by financial collapse, the media will feel perfectly entitled to ignore/bury this story.  Perhaps they will give it a 5 sec read over.

I want to be wrong.

The one great take away that this story has for me is how much better organized the Dem's are.  Sadly, I doubt we have time to create mailing list of supporters with specific areas of responsibility to push messages virally to friends, family, coworkers, blogs, school bulletin boards etc.  And that is exactly what they are doing.

That is worrying.  This is to politics like when the jet engine came to fighter aircraft.  McCain is running a faster OODA loop, but he's still flying a piper cub against a modern jet.  It will do little good to be ahead of Obama in the decision loop as long as Obama's craft will out climb, out dive, out run, and out turn McCain's.  In short, Obama is making much more noise and going a lot farther a lot faster.  McCain will only enjoy upward trends when he completely surprises BOTH Obama/'s supporters *and* the media.  The surprise, broadcast by the media will allow McCain to get a momentary turbo boost to temporarily out maneuver Obama.

Maybe, by breaking this story, we can effectively take away some of the performance advantage of Obama's total support package, but if McCain doesn't pick up some speed to turn a point, and burn it in, we'll all suffer in the end.  Especially the end nearest the wallet.

So here is my point summarized.  Obama's total support team (official and unofficial) is providing him with both better performance and armor.  McCain does not appear to have anything that will compete with that,,, unless we become it.  Everyone of us needs to make this story go viral.  We need to do just as the Obamassia suggest and take the gloves off and become insistent that those we send this story to, also send it to everyone they know.  People need to learn they have been getting played, sadly,  they need to learn this by us playing the same exact game.

283

NOme, Shill, That tell it all. I have a real address, a real phone, a real place.  Clck the link. 

Don't call me out.  ACE is the place...  You two WTF....  COme on in...

284

Diderot's dog

 

WTF was that post about?  Saw a lot of dem code words being thrown around but i think you need to work on the order they are presented.

285 Oops - MSM, not MSN. My keyboard's been drinking...

286 Obama's campaign manager's PR firm secretly distributes false Palin smears through professionally-produced "citizen videos"?

-- just trying to get the gist in as few column inches as possible....

287

I like puppies, not that big on cats.

I blame cats for the economic downturn.

288 Jeff B.,

I didn't call him a concern troll. I said if there's nothing to this story then kindly shut the fuck up and let the rest of us dip our balls in it.

Have fun with your gal.

289 Cats are evil incarnate.

290 281: Thanx

291

It's still up at google

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7354195621145391349&hl=en

292 Gee fellas - anyone got time for a hand of "he wasn't born in the US cause his birth certificate kinda isn't exactly perfect like today's are" - or "hoo boy do you think anyone who's NOT secret muslim gonna keep that wierdo NAME he got" - or- "yeah he was 8 but I hear that's exactly the age the Weather Underground starting indoctrinating all the runners for the pushers in their evil plot to flatten Washington" - or how 'bout- "Don't give a damn what all them so-called investigative reporters said they did: Dude was raised in a Islamoterrorist brain washing cycle and as soon as he's elected he be granted ever black lawabout a rocket launcher 20 rockets and a license to blow away whitey & turn all our white wimmens into sex slaves & ho's for his stable". Cuz this game isn't just demented- it's stoooopid.

293

Jim

 

usally the bigger a campaign the more chance you are done in by your friends.  as the message is mixed, confused  etc.  Look how long it took BHO to turn when McCain picked Palin.  Two weeks before BHO found his legs again.  Granted once the turn was made he quickly caught up.  But if McCain can keep making him turn he could end up ahead in the head.  Kind of turn the rabbit and turtle fable on its head.

294 271 must be some sort of robot that missed out on the program for punctuation use.

295 Jeff B, I don't think Oxrock is a moby, though I would note that this is because Oxrock isn't pretending to be a republican.

I think he's just trolling and having fun, and it's not bothering me that much.  And while I am chuckling, you have to admit he's being pretty nutty and his argument that we should move on is very uncompelling.

All I'm saying is that if the astroturfing is still attempting to be effective here, it's going to be very counterproductive. 

296 Lars Larson, Larry Elder, and Rusty Humphries all have been contacted.

This thing is going big. And the FEC may not have quorum, but someone could be appointed if the House/Senate decide to go AWOL soon. *grin*

297 Diderot's Dogdick

Strawman much? 

298 I can't believe you wingnuts are worried about a little federal felony when MCCAIN HAS 13 CARS!!!11!!1!1!!!!!!!!!ELEVENTY ONE

299 Diderot's dog at September 22, 2008 03:23 AM

What the fuck are you talking about? Are you capable of forming a sem-cohesive statement? We have very low standards around here, but we try to make it at least interpretable.

300 People actually pay Axelrod for this kind of half-assed incompetence?

301

Jeff,

I'm not.  I'm a pro Palin/McCain oops did I get that backwards.   Why yes I did.  I wa not ever Pro McCain...However I am Pro McCain / Palin.  How?  Glad you asked....

302 There should be a thread exclusively devoted to DD's greatest hits.

303 I just can't compete with teh genuine crazy from DD.

I give up.

Goodnight, and good luck

304 Heh.... the "CandidateObama" account is me... it was the best Obama account name I could snag.

As for the nutshell... change "campaign manager" to "campaign":

PR FIRM LINKED TO OBAMA CAMPAIGN APPARENTLY RESPONSIBLE FOR COVERT DISSEMINATION OF KNOWINGLY FALSE PALIN SMEARS

305 Becuase she is genius.  But ok.  I'll be Pro-McCain for a couple of years.

306

For those of you asking: No he cannot form complete sentences, nor use grammar or punctuation.

That is just not the way D's mutt rolls, yo.

 

 

307 Commercial Voice Over Idea:

Barack Obama criticized John McCain for not using a computer.But it turns out the Obama campaign knows how to use a computer altogether too well.

The Obama campaign was behind a slew of lies intended to smear Sarah Palin. They made up things about her family. They lied about her children. And they tried to do so in a way that violated the very election laws that John McCain helped craft to root corruption out of politics.

Barack Obama claims he wants change. But I'm afraid he's practicing more of the same Chicago politics that had him associating with known domestic terrorists and radical anti-American preachers.

Is that the sort of change America needs?

308 All that's left is the video and the AUDIO of the video. Who is the voice? Does she really believe these lies? Should she be found and contacted relentlessly until she explains a few things? If she's a pro voice-over worker, should her outright slander of Palin be exposed to past, current and potential customers?

309
PR FIRM LINKED TO OBAMA CAMPAIGN APPARENTLY RESPONSIBLE FOR COVERT DISSEMINATION OF KNOWINGLY FALSE PALIN SMEARS

Has a nice ring to it. Easy to "share".

310 Jeff B., I think I'm with the rest of them, you're kind of a preachy asshole.

311 should read:

slew of internet lies

312 Nom, I usually just drink Iced Tea, so I'm nobody's super-drinker awesome macho-man.  I just never got the point of the frilly drinks.  A martini or a liquor on ice just seems a lot better than a Captain's Punch or a Mudslide or whatever.  Trust me, if you were as clumsy as I am, you'd get sick of making those drinks too.

313 Shit, I looked at Rusty's post, and it confirms what I've been thinking the entire time.  The core of Obama's strategy is preemptive projection. 

Every time they have a weakness, the accuse the other guy of the same sin (presumably to make the telegraphed hit look like a weak tu quoque)

Accusing PALIN of being anti-American?  THat's so rich I'll dip my balls in it twice.

WHat a fucking tool douchebag BO is. 

Let the Wright and Ayers ads FLY.

314 Oxrock, all anyone has asked is, if you believe this is such a non-story, find something else on the whole damn web to read.  You've posted your opinion multiple times, barely bothering to change the wording. 

We get it.  We get it.  We get it already. 

I don't care about your bar, which you've also found a way to bring up multiple times, and I don't care about your politics.  What's so hard to understand?

I've got a 13 year old that doesn't express his disappointment as much as you have.  Listened to any 13 year olds lately? 

315 OK, now off to bed.  Night, guys

316

Ever read the book "The Fourth K?"

In that book, the president, to secure power, and basicaly become a dictator, uses closes associates to do his dirty work.

Kennedy (the fourth K get it?) INSINUATES orders, rather than giving them, and his "people" obey those insinuated orders, as though they were shouted from on high.

Obama INSINUATES action, and CLEARLY that action is okay,k since Obama has YET to denounce, or rein in those who are carrying out his insinuated orders.  They are just motivated activists, I never told them anything.

Obama's ENTIRE campaign is plausible deniability.

317 yep Wicked, you nail the scary factor of an Obama presidency pretty damn well.

He's either very able to lead his campaign into doing all sorts of evils, or he is utterly unable to control it at all.

318 I'm just afraid nothing is going to stick. It's the Allahpundit inside of me definitely. Of course I was wrong about Rathergate's stickiness too, so here's to hoping.

I'm not going to say abandon it, in fact, you guys are damned close to getting someone's attention. Go for it, I'll be hoping something rock solid turns up.

319

Oh, Shill, I know bleeding well Jeff B was looking at me. It doesn't matter, though. It's entirely possible I'm wrong and Oxrock is simply being contrarian. In that case, I'll apologize to the man. But for someone who hasn't posted here before, he sure as hell picked a strange thread to act out on. Challenging me to a 'meet and greet' 2500 or so miles away sure didn't help. Maybe things will be clearer in the morning.

Feh, I'm going to bed. I have a '67 Chevy PU I have to start wiring for a customer tomorrow.

320 What Jeff B. said. Never ascribe to malice what can be explained by "Oxrock is dumb."

321 The Fourth K Read it.  It's a fascinating book.  All about the cult of personality.  And it's bloody, it's written by Puzo after all.

322 Is there nothing I can believe in anymore

323
Bill H, I would rather have one of those trucks than a 70 Chevelle 454.  I just love those damn things.

 I think it's kinda funny that Oxrock is pushing his bar in a thread about how devious astroturfing is.  Maybe he's a secret genius making fun of us. 

Oxrock, if you were a Navy lifer, I sincerely thank you.  But you have been enjoying too much of your bar's product this evening.

324

I don't think this will add up to be ing jack shit.

No offense to ace or rusty, it's just too convoluted, and too hard to express nationaly.  Too many cut-outs.

325 Diderot's dog, admit it- even you want to dip your balls in it.

326 Wickedpinto,

Did the general American populace ever really digest the full Rathergate story?  Do they know anything about the Xerox whacko?  Mary Mapes?

They just know that Rather ran an Office 97 document as though it was from the Vietnam way.

Similarly, if this (admittedly not earth shaking, but pretty interesting and ugly) story gets out, the narrative can merely be that Axelrod told some fibs about Palin.  They don't need to know the full connection.  The connection can be some vague FEC violation to them.  I don't know if that connection can be made.  If this is just rich people lying about Palin, you're right... folks will get 'Moveon.org smeared General Petraus' level pissed off, but it won't dent Obama much.

At this point, all we have are some compelling questions about this PR firm and if it worked with Obama's campaign on this or other stuff, in addition to the 'in-kind' contribution issue brought up above.  Could be something... could be SOMETHING.

327 There's usually a setup to that joke POTL.  I was a big fan of "The State," and "Louie."  Thing is that the state and louie was actually funny.

328

why would the 'winner' persons use obvious you-tube nic-names?

ego and hubris doesnt explain it cos these ppl arent stupid.

329 Sorry I didn't have any highbrow longbow humor for you.

330

I think they are facts shill, the connections and the following actions are compelling.   But how are you gonna describe that to a national audience?  Only us political dorkes are gonna get it, and thats only after reading a way too long post at rusty's, that is arduous at best in it's method of writing, not really interesting to anyone who isn't a fan of campaign minutiae.

I think this story is real, but it won't add up to shit, unless it's criminal, and the connections are too tenuous, which is prolly why Ace wanted a specialist to confer with about the story.

331 From eswinner's profile:
Offering a fair and unbiased view towards life and politics
 ...
I try to give an unbiased account of all things American.

Hmph!

332 Jim, I was the only one full-on calling Moby on "Oxrock", Nom just pointed out that he had suddenly picked this thread to start commenting.

Long before Jeff B. piped up I commented, "My bad, I realize it now.  Marier is the actual Moby, Oxrock is just a sub-literate retard."  Marier was pretty Moby, by the way, I saw it at Rusty's and Patterico saw it here.

So, yeah, Jeff B.  Still pretty insufferable.

Turns out that Oxrock is Navy, I didn't realize that earlier or I wouldn't have made fun of his condition.

333 Well, Walter, Hubris, insinuates that they think EVERYONE ELSE is stupid.

334 I dunno. This whole Oxrock thing just doesn't smell right to me.

335

Shill:  If it weren't for Beam & Coke and other mixed drinks, there would be no happiness!

 

On a side note, should my google-fu ever progress beyond the fuscia-belt-with- bunnies-and-duckies, it's safe to say my name ranks right up there with Mr. al-Poopypants in "somewhat lacking in credibility".  Ah well....

336 last tidbit, them I'm going to bed...

Axelrod's consulting firm (ASK) is working with the University of Chicago Medical Center - same place that Michelle Obama is employed at...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/09/02/AR2008090202681.html

Wonder how that arrangement came about?

337 WP:  Palin drew a crowd of 60,000 in Florida.  People can understand enough of this to get that the Obama campaign, who put out their little, "Hands off families.", piffle, is directly tied to a video that smears her with lies.

People smearing Palin -bad
Obama - Hands off, good
Obama - smeared via back door, bad

Obama smeared Palin.  That's all that has to come across.  If the lies of a disgruntled librarian from Wasilla can spread the meme that Palin banned books, then these, much clearer, connections can spread the meme that Obama made up  nasty lies about Palin.

Your bff

338 I'm not sure what the point is here. This is all assumptions, and I think we should ignore it. It's not worth it.

339

I'm your BFF?  does that mean if you are in a coma, I can have the plug pulled?

That would be cool!!!  not saying I would, but just having that power,would be COOL!

340 wicked, you can tug on my cord anytime.  IYKWIMAITYD

341 Dude, my husband gets to make that call, but I'm sure he'd let you be the one to actually yank the cord out of the wall.

Then again, I could outlive him, and you'd be next in line.  Like Nancy Pelosi.

342

I have abnormaly long nails, and a very firm grip.

Basicaly you can pick your jewelry, It should be in the "aught" category.

343 Thanks NANCY!!

344 Here's your chance.  Am lapsing into comatose state now.  If I'm not back tomorrow (er, later today), my doctor will be in contact.

Sleep morons!

345 Has anyone emailed the jawa stuff to tons of MSM people?

346 Goodnight, Rebecca!<font color="red">

347

*pulls plug*  *pulls another plug*  *starts cutting breaker lines*

Okay, my phone ain't charging, you dead?

WHAT THE FUCK IS THIS BFF SHIT WORTH ANYWAYS!!!!

348 YouTube account is now completely closed.

Guess no one has ever told Ethan about "backups", huh?

349 Also... would anyone think less of me if I admitted that I usually don't "get" Day by Day?

350

I don't get it, but I'm completely out of the loop now.

I'm a start to finish guy, and the layout doesn't make it easy to fill in the gap I've experienced over the last year.  So, I miss a lot of it.

I spent most of last monday and tuesday catching up with OOTS.

351 Well scissor me timbers.

352 HAH, Lesbos' reference.

353

"I have to say, Mr. Al-Poopypants, that your screenname is not exactly adding the credibility we need here."

I don't know. Watergate was broke by a guy called "Deepthroat"

354 all the posters here are members in good standing of Obama's Cult of Creepy Toddlers

Wednesdays is jelly sandwiches!

355 http://www.pcplusag.com/profiles.php?sub_page=publicisconsultants&bio=Winner_Ethan (linked from TFA):

Presently, Mr. Winner is heading an international team in creating a Europe-wide crisis and communications campaign to promote the European Union.

Oho. Heehee.

Domestically, he is leading efforts to promote gaming and thoroughbred racing in numerous statewide campaigns in order to counter the attendance crisis that is plaguing the industry.

So he's going to spread rumours that the races aren't fixed?

356 Wows.  Nice work, read through all of it.  Looks like all the t's were crossed, and i's dotted.  Now....it remains to be seen if the MSM will notice, (that was tongue in cheek.....), and since they've been so busy lately, what with their BREAKING HARD expose on McCain's cars, or as they like to call it, "real news", I kind of sort of suspect that this story will slip under the radar.  Unless, of course, it's shoved straight up their collective ass.  I'll be checking Drudge throughout the day...that'd be a start.

357 If you could afford 13 cars.... well, you would consider buying 13 cars, right?

Of course we all know this is the same BS as the houses, and more of Mccain's family has 13 cars.

I wonder why no one cared about this stuff when Kerry was running...

358 Would it be wrong of me to suggest the Townhouse list was involved in a little, ah, "in-kind contribution" here?

359

Over at the Time straw poll, McCain is still beating Obama 68- 32, with EVERY state, and including D.C., in his camp.

The past few days ME, Hi, DC, and VT have wavered, but tonight they are McCain.

I have a dream:  I dream that Michelle Obama, realizing on Election Night she's not going to be the black Jackie Kennedy, goes all Godzilla on us and publicly RAGES against "Whitey" for denying her her due, until someone quietly slips a thorazine injection into her arm.

Heh.  Let's hope.

 

 

 

360 I know YouTube is by far the biggest dog, but there are others, and since it was specifically requested that this video be spread, it's not like there's any copyright issues.  Can someone with copies put it up on the alternate video sites?  At least we'll have something to link to when we send the story out.

361 How about "right wing blogs allege david axelrod behind pr campaigns orchestrated palin smears?" and somewhere further down in the article, "although the smears were documented, the alleged connection is only blogger speculation?"

362 So it all pretty much boils down to this:  Liberals have become the same monsters they hysterically convinced themselves that conservatives are, and they use that as justification for their actions.

363 correction: pr companies

364 I think we are not looking in the right direction for where the money came from.

International Edison is listed on the Winner&Associates site.  it is the California based company that was in a huge amount of trouble in 2001 when rolling black outs affected the whole west coast.  IIRC, this is the company that was accused of potentially setting off the crisis on purpose in order to effect the price of energy in California.  ConEd (Consolidated Edison) is the New York based company that was implicated in the June 2006 meltdown in New York. 

I believe these companies are part of a larger energy holding company, a sister company or franchise of the multiple Edison energy corporations that supply a huge percentage of energy around the United States.  Tom Ayers was CEO of Commonwealth Edison which was involved in it's own scandal for "astro-turfing" an alleged "grass roots" movement to effect higher energy rates after the Illinois state assembly proposed a rate freeze in 1997 that was set to expire in 2007.  In 2006, Commonwealth Edison used this "grass roots" effort to scare people into believing that their electricity was going to be gone because Commonwealth Edison could not continue to supply energy to the users at the current rates.  At that time, a a proposal was before the Illinois assembly to extend the rate freeze.  Commonwealth Edison moved to block this proposal from continuing with their efforts.  The extension of the freeze did not occur, but CORE (Consumers Organized for Reliable Energy) was forced to disclose their relationship with Com Ed.

Frank Clark, president of Commonwealth Edison, is a registered lobbyist and registered with the Obama Campaign as a bundler.

In 2000, Unicom, the parent company of Commonwealth Edison, and PECO, Philadelphia Electric Company, merged to form the Exelon Corporation.  The Exelon Corporation is full or majority owner of 19 nuclear reactors and 11 nuclear plants.  The Exelon Corporation has a PAC called ExelonPAC.  ExcelonPAC has donated equally to both Republicans and Democrats.  It will take more time to see where the money is going in and out of these PACs as to whether any money exchanged hands in the above noted event.

However, it seems very interesting that the Obama campaign has been all about moving away from oil and into "alternative" energy.  The Democrat party has been blocking the opening of Alaska's ANWR and the coastal plains for drilling.  They were able to enlist a number of Republicans in the "gang of 10" for a proposed bill that ostensibly did nothing to open drilling, but did, in fact, give huge tax credits for developing alternate energy resources. 

McCain-Palin have been campaigning based on opening drilling.  While McCain will not go so far as to support ANWR, he hasn't totally opposed it.  he has supported opening the coastal plains for drilling and Palin is unrepentent on insisting that drilling should be opened up in ANWR immediately. 

Companies like Exelon have a deep and abiding interest in insuring that drilling does not occur and oil prices remain high.   Exelon's energy resources are largely nuclear, hydro-electric and renewable, though they also have multiple fossil fuel plants.  However, they are known as the leading operator of nuclear energy plants in the United States and most of their other alternate energy seems to center around wind farms.

Tax credits and huge grants from the government to develop these alternative energy resources would be highly welcome.

I have a lot more to read about the inter relations of corporations such as Leihman Brothers, JP Morgan (parent of Morgan-Stanley) and Sachs-Goldman, not only as some of the largest donors to the Obama campaign, but as part of a very large group associated with Commonwealth Edison and appear to be related to the oil bubble speculation through spin off investment groups.

I would also like to suggest, if anyone has the time, that they look over the list of CORE advisers to determine relationship with the Obama campaign or related PACs. 

Have to sleep and earn real money in a few hours.  I'll pass the baton or pass it off until Monday evening. 

365 The narrator's voice on that video sounds a little bit too much like HRC's for my comfort.

Thinking of calling into Bill Bennett's show this morning to push this....

366 Look - I cannot wait to pull that (R) ballot in a couple months and see that Illinois jackass pedal his adorable little Schwinn 10 speed circa 1979, or whatever the hell he rides, back to Capitol Hill. But let me get this straight. Dr. Rusty writes the following:

"Our research suggests..."
and
"...most likely started and promulgated rumors about Sarah Palin..."
and
"It is also likely that the PR firm was paid by outside sources..."
and
"In our opinion the Palin smear video appears professionally produced. Especially revealing is the voice over, which has a ring of familiarity to it and which also sounds professional..."
and
"...our reading of FEC regulations suggests..."
and
"We assume that if some group paid for the production of the video, that it would be reported to the FEC. Not doing so, we believe, would constitute a breach of federal campaign law."

This will get you nowhere now. <------------- Key word is "now."

Why?

1.) Obama pulled THIS VERY SHIT on McCain a couple weeks ago with that Ayers ad. Even the FEC was notified, blah, blah, blah, and they don't want to stop there. Team Obama would like to shove this into the lap of the Department of Justice. These people scare the living hell out of me if they get into power, but the public backlash against McCain from all this has been zero. No one cares.

2.) I cannot fathom how anyone thinks this story would ever be picked up by the MSM in the near future, or in any other future. As a former member of the MSM who can't stand the MSM (which is why I'm a former member and not a current one), I wouldn't publish anything on this story now, either. I'm not saying there isn't anything there, and I'm also not saying this supposition should never have been spelled out, commented upon, twitter-dee-fucking-doodled and so forth. But geez - this maybe, kinda, sorta linkage has got to be dumped and replaced with precise violations of the law if you want people to notice. You saw how much water the MSM carried for Obama and his complaint against the Ayers ad. You saw how everyone on planet earth ignored the Palin email story except this blog and other like-minded ones. Those aren't the only two examples of MSM's worship of The Messiah, der duh. But now they'll sink their teeth into this maybekindasorta Axelrod story? What kind of pipe dream is this?

3.) Team Obama loves to manipulate the truth. Haha - yeah, no shit. I own the Adobe Creative Suite 3 Master Collection and could crank out a Winner & Associates-looking photo/website/video from this crappy Office Depot chair that is punishing my ass royally right now as I type this. Believe me, slicky slick isn't always necessarily the domain of no one but pansy ad company pansies.

4.) Maybe Hannity and Rush and Medved and Levin and Prager and Laura and Beck and Hugh and Lars and Boortz and Ted Nuget's Fender Bassman will mention this Axelrod story. Then everyone will know what an manipulating liar Obama is and that he hangs out with unsavory people, because that's never been discussed on talk radio before.

Sorry - this stuff might be Skull Good right now. But it ain't Flaming Skull Good.

367

Bumper sticker version:

"Obama secretly hires PR firm to spread lies. This is illegal since it was not reported to FEC."

 

 

 

 

 

368 Sorry - this stuff might be Skull Good right now. But it ain't Flaming Skull Good.

You sound... Concerned.

369 313 Shit, I looked at Rusty's post, and it confirms what I've been thinking the entire time. The core of Obama's strategy is preemptive projection.

Every time they have a weakness, the accuse the other guy of the same sin (presumably to make the telegraphed hit look like a weak tu quoque)

Accusing PALIN of being anti-American? THat's so rich I'll dip my balls in it twice.

WHat a fucking tool douchebag BO is.

Let the Wright and Ayers ads FLY.

Posted by: it's full of stars at September 22, 2008 03:34 AM (OeLz9)

And.... he waits for McCain to take a position and then takes the same position, only with flashing lights and bells provided by THE Media.

 

What a piece of work this asshole is.

 

Diderot's dog, still haven't seen that shrink yet like Brown Line suggested? September 19, 2008 07:28 AM

370 Good detective work

371 For the record, I'm sorry I acted like Astroturf. I'm not.

I was a genuine conservative skeptic, wondering if they had enough evidence. The only tie I saw was the voiceover. I wanted more, and I wanted to start the "what's next" conversation. I didn't want to piss in the punchbowl, and I'm sorry my actions were interpreted that way.

I'm far more convinced this morning that Axelrod was connected. Wow, what lame, sloppy work, though..

Once again, I apologize if I was rude.

Joe

372

"Good detective work"

I'll 371st that.  Hopefully, ADD - or the constant drumbeat - doesn't affect everyone's ability to pay attention to all of this.  Amazing work! 

373 Thank you, Ace and Rusty, for putting this all together.  

And thank you, John McCain, for not engaging in this kind of nastiness.

374

Sooooo Sleepy....

Sent story (Jawa link) to reasonable lefties.  I do not think they will like being played as fools. 

I forgot to mention this before:  Yay Ace for the story promotion.

Now.  Coffee. 

375 142 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yfBS3kPtsog - get it quick, before it gets disappeared

It be gone !!!


This video has been removed by the user

hahahahahahahaha Guilty Much

376 What's kind of funny about the whole thing is that if they wouldn't have started deleting videos, many skeptics would have stayed,,,well, skeptical.  Now, it's so obvious they have something to hide.  Typical lefties,,always a good show, but not follow through.

377 Ann,

Where I went wrong was assuming that the voice-over lady was a freelancer. If she worked almost exclusively with Axelrod and the Obama campaign, then she may well have been an employee of Axelrod.

In which case, they knew they were busted, and did what they did.

378 Other possibility: the Winners made the video for the Obama campaign on spec, the Obama campaign then rejected it, and they decided to release it on their own.

That would explain why it showed up only after it was out of date.

379 Or rather, "decided" to release it "on their own" (while knowing full well what David Axelrod wanted them to do)

380

Just so everyone is clear about how the FEC works - it does have a staff which investigates all complaints.  The Commission itself has to vote to proceed with a formal finding of a violation.  But it's real easy to produce a claim that "The Obama campaign is now under investigation for violating federal election law by surreptitiously posting false videos on the Internet."  Democrats do this shit all the time late in campaigns - they tried to do it to McCain in the primaries because his campaign allegedly used the promise of federal matching funds to secure a loan and then they declined the matching funds.  The FEC did rule there was no violation on that one.

381 I have to agree with Ann and others that the deletions are powerful confirmation of the crime.

It also confirms what Ace has been saying for the last couple of days: lefties are keeping a close watch on this and other conservative blogs - take care what you write.

382 I've emailed the winners at Winner asking for a PO Box for where I may direct my donations to "A Group of Concerned Americans".

383 Don't forget Break and Liveleak if you want to put this stuff back up.

384 We should all pitch in and get a wallet for Ace that says 'badass motherfucker'.

385 I was just looking at a crowd shot of Mrs. Palin's Florida appearance.

How does one astroturf something like that?

386

OK, I've tried this three times and the dog keeps eating it somehow.

Here is a quick primer on how many FEC violations might be involved here:

First of all, the use of professional voice-over and captioning, plus the obvious use of sockpuppets and their comments about this video benefiting Obama, clearly indicate that this was not a mere amateur YouTuber mongering rumors for the hell of it, which would exempt it from federal election law.  It has all the hallmarks of being produced by a campaign professional, which under the law probably defines it as a campaign advertisement for the Barack Obama campaign.  I don't think this is a close call.

1. If the Obama campaign directly paid for the video, it should have included a disclaimer saying so and it should be reported as a campaign expense to Winner on Obama's next FEC report September 30. 

2. If the Obama campaign paid Winner to do the video but hid the payment through a reported expense payment to another contractor, that is a violation.

3. If Winner produced the video at its own expense, but in any way coordinated its production with the Obama campaign (including providing a reference for the voiceover artist, supplying a suggested narrative, providing video clips, etc.) then it is legally a production of the Obama campaign and must be reported as such, or else it is a violation.  (The law is VERY clear on this and there is voluminous case law on it.)

4. If Winner produced the video at its own expense and used corporate accounts to pay for it, it is an illegal corporate contribution to the Obama campaign.  The only way to make it legal is for the Obama campaign to reimburse Winner and report the expense.

5. If someone employed by Winner paid for the video out of personal funds, it is an in-kind contribution from that person to the Obama campaign and must be reported as such.  Even if the people who did it were not paid, their professional time counts as in-kind contributions and must be reported.  This includes the voice-over artist, even if she volunteered her services.   She must be named in the FEC report.

The Obama campaign must report all contributions for September by October 14.  Since this video went up in September, we probably won't find any trace of it on the August report.  But I would bet there is some bigtime scrambling going on in the Obama campaign right now to figure out how to avoid getting their fingerprints on this and at the same time avoid any FEC violations.  I don't see how they can do it. 

387 Kudos to AoSHQ and TJR.  This is what citizen journalism is all about, not the investigative (read:  fraudulent) journaljism we have come to expect from our Legacy Media elite 'betters'.

388 'I'm told that Axelrod's wiki page is being altered. However, reading it through, it appears to just be a reorganization of material, and doesn't seem to be a "friendly edit." But I'm not sure. Someone familiar with Wikipedia will have to check.' The page history doesn't show a problem. One editor has added a bunch of stuff about ASK; one other editor is concerned that it's a copyright problem.

389 You see, I agree with most morons here. Therefore I don't post. I've sobered up now and when I read what I posted, I now know another reason I don't post. You guys are fucking vicious. Right, Spot On, But damn, I'm bleeding! Oh, that's the Beam coming out my pores.

390 Rockmom, thanks for going over this!

391 Winners : Rusty :: Vampires : Sunlight

392

393

Great work by Rusty, but there are just enuff holes in the story for the MSM to accept without question whatever defense the Obamans put up on this. It might make it on Fox or onto Rush or Mark Levin, but not one MSM outlet or newspaper will go near it except to slam the "reich wing thugs" who are promoting it. Sad, really coz it looks prerry clear to me. But we ARE talking about the MSM.

Now, if somehow a situation like this could be tied to McCain?? Front page news for a fortnight and a dominant theme of the 1st debate. As it stands today though? Not so much.

Again, great work by Rusty. Ryder Cup golf claps for his mad research skillz. But if an Obama astroturfed tree falls in an MSM forest, does it malke a sound? Prolly not.

394

For a soundbite description of this scandal-hopefully-in-the-making, how about:

PR firm with close Democratic Party, Obama ties knowingly astroturfs debunked lies about Palin.

And for a name for the scandal, how about Astroturfgate?

 

395

Bumper sticker: "Obama lied; P.R. firm tried. Google Winner Associates"

396 The absence of a smoking gun is not fatal.  The questions evoked by TJR's report raise their own spectres that will haunt the Obama campaign.

Just so you know, aside from Michelle Malkin, Rheil, and Hotair, I've seen this covered at:

McClatchy Watch                        
YID with LID
Jim Treacher
Memorandum.com
PrestoPundit
sweasel.com
This ain't Hell, but you can see it from here
proteinwisdom
Doug Ross@Journal
JammieWearingFool
Slublog
PowerLine

I'm sure there are more, and I'm looking.  This needs to spread the way eswinner wanted that video to spread.

397 It isn't just the ads, it's the blogs. Type in Sarah Palin, the date, and you won't get what you got a week or two ago. Fact is, Ms. Palin is being "cleansed" from the Internet. You'll see page after page of negative posts. And, the posts aren't even current. Yahoo is more of the same. Here's a "wildly popular" woman, who I've heard described as a combination of the girl next-door, Ms. Right, and “the one that got away,” running for high office and ... we're seeing outdated rants. It’s been reported the Obama campaign is top-heavy with ex-Clinton staffers. Well, the best credential for governing is that the candidate possesses the will of the people. I think Sarah Palin's got it, you’re just not supposed to get it: http://theseedsof9-11.com

398 I know I'm late to this, being a working lady and all :-), and I apologize if anyone has already reported this, but it looks like eswinner has closed down his youtube account.

Although there is currently no concrete proof, at least as far as I'm aware, but I don't put this past Obie.  The man is shamelessly brazen.

399 Whoops.  Too late.  Embarrassingly late.

400

OMG you christo-fascists are trying to squelch free speech

 

/Amanda Marcotte

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