1 Wow. I didn't read through much of it. Must've been pretty bad.

2 But it is kind of ironic, isn't  it?

A thread complaining about the yanking of a film due to threats being yanked because of complaints.

At least there were no threats. ;^D

3 It is ironic.

On the other hand, I'm not running this blog so that people can say "Kill every Muslim" six thousand times in a row.

4 Good on ya.

5 And hey - since "Fitna" was pretty damn lame, aesthetically and otherwise, and since a link to it brings the assholes a'runnin' - why link to it at all?

6 On the other hand, I'm not running this blog so that people can say "Kill every Muslim" six thousand times in a row. - That's not what Glenn Greenwald and all the KozKidz are gonna think, Ace.

You're up there w/ the LGF haters now! Ah the sweet smell of burning flesh in the morning.

7 Well, bright side is that it can serve as an object lesson:

There's no need to blow things and people up to be heard. In the West we can be civil.

Not that people who are dead set on  blowing things and people up will hear it, or that their sympathizers will tell them so....

8 Eh, I don't even have it in me to threaten you to put it back up or "else".  Must have been bad I guess. 

9 Damnit, I missed a sweet thread.  DAMN YOU, REAL LIFE!  CURSE YOU, POKER NITE!  DAMN THEE, MARCH MADNESS!!

10 First, I admit I didn't see the entire thread of the original post. But, I would think you would expect some venting when the UN, the EU and major media outlets deemed a lesson in free speech as "hate speech" and the Muslim sensitivities seem to outweigh Western cultural values.

Thinking people who are paying attention see the PC-driven erosion of freedom and are getting upset. Thinking people who are paying attention see the root cause of most of the terrorism in the world. Thinking people who are paying attention are losing their patience.

11 It's crap like that (on a larger range of subjects) that has made places like Freerepublic not worth going to, now. 

12 The movie is also available on my site - so far without hordes of ignorant asshats polluting the comments.

http://nomayo.mu.nu/fitna_downladable_here

13 Good move, there was some ugly hate in there.  Wanting justice brought to murderers is fine, hating a billion mostly-innocent people is not.

14 Sad...Sad that in an atmosphere of free speech, someone would be complained to about the remarks of others.  Who is complaining?  Shut down free speech, that'll fix complaints every time.  Glad I got here before it was shut down. Wasn't that big a deal.  Or I guess it was.

15 Yeah, there was some pretty bad stuff in that thread. Oddly tho, Erg wasn't the worst of it. I don't think he deserved the ban hammer-I think he was playing devil's advocate (poorly). Erg did seem to bring out the worst in some other folks tho.

16 jayhawk, start your own blog.  you can have all the free speech you like.

This is *my* blog, and I set the guidelines for what is fair commentary or not. 

No one's going after "jayhawk" for whatever stupid comments he might post here.  They're coming after *me.*

If you're that fucking dense not to get that, you're too goddamned stupid to be posting here in the first place.

17 XTC, erg was supposed to be banned a year ago, I just didn't know I wasn't actually banning him.

That was just a gimme.

18 Hate speech is in the eye of the beholder.

Apparently, so is free speech.

The delicious irony. Yum.

19 Ace's site, Ace's right.  We're guests in his place.  Shutting the thread down was the equivalent of telling Rev. Wright to leave when he starts talking about whitey and the joooooos.

20 Bitez, I direct your attention to the well-crafted advice I offered jayhawk.

Let me explain something to you, moron:  The name of this site is NOT "Bitez-Moi HQ." 

21

Ace, I'm cool with that. 1. It's your blog. If I don't like it, I can always start my own. 2. He has been worse in the past. I just didn't think that one thread was all that bad. In a thread where people implied that whacking 1/5 of the worlds population would solve our problems, bitching about Christianity wasn't that incendiary.

A lot of folks are going to bitch about the free speech aspect about Ace taking down the threads. Ironically, it was their speech that caused it. I wish Ace had left it, but he's gotta do what he's gotta do. How many other blogs this hi profile still have completely open comments? Let's not fuck that up.

22 BTW, Ace, who was complaining. I'm curious if it was the perpetually outraged, or if there were folks genuinely concerned.

23 For now, the West sees Islam as being different from radical Islamism. But, that may change.  If it does, the West will do whatever is necessary to remove that threat.

That is why innocent, but silent Muslims must speak out.  They really are innocent and they really don't deserve to die.  But, the West of the future may think just the opposite.

24

Missed the fireworks, but still watched Fitna.

Rather than venting & shitting all over Ace's blog, I compressed my fury into a tiny, dense, black knot in my gut which will one day explode in an unpredictable  fusillade of unhinged hatred. So all's good.

25 Who was complaining?  Long time readers, commenters, and tipsters, that's who.

Through the night I kept getting notices about it but I didn't feel like dealing with it because it was my night off.  When I finally went in and said ratchet it down, I was ignored.

People jump on me for "chilling" their free speech.  But when I offer a polite request they  say fuck you to me.

I can say "Fuck you" back.  I have the banhammer.

26 Wow! I must've missed it because it all seemed pretty tame to me when I last checked in.

OK, folks. Listen up.

1^st Rule of Fitna - You do not talk about Fitna.
2^nd Rule of Fitna - You do NOT talk about Fitna.


Ace,

Couldn't you have cropped the comments at the point where it went out of control and then locked the thread? There was responsible and necessary commentary at the beginning. I mean, you've thrown the baby out with the bathwater here, and it just reinforces the idea that those who complain the most/loudest will trump all. (It's especially relevant on this this topic.) At a minimum, it gives the appearance of such considering there's no context of commentary to demarcate "reasonable" and "unreasonable." The appearance of an utter purge strengthens "the enemy."

Yeah, I appreciate your need for sterno and Val-U-Rite, but the ban hammer and bit shredder? Wow.

27

"hating a billion mostly-innocent people"#13

I call bullshit on that.If that were true it would be relatively easy to reign in the terrorists amongst them.No,those people who live amongst the terrorists and say nothing as they murder,rape,etc.,all in the name of allah,are complicit in thier crimes.

Imagine if your next door neighbor was a terrorist.You know that when this man /woman goes to work(terrorism),people are going to die.Yet you do nothing about it.Do you have any responsibility to report these people,or is it perfectly acceptable to ignore what is happening around you?

I read the thread that ace deleted.Personally,I did'nt think it was that over the top,I mean,this is Ace of Spades ,right?We are at war,what is wrong with hating the enemy?That being said,this is his blog and we should respect his wishes.Hopefully,I did'nt cross any boundaries with this post.

28 btw, ace, check your Haloscan thingy: a lonely guy is requesting Muslim-criticism guidelines...

29

When it's Ace's audience that is bitching, that's the market at work. I had access to AoSHQ at my last job, and was glad for it. I wouldn't have wanted to lose that either. That's not spineless caving. That's listening to the customer.

I come here for the morons, not the assholes.

30 Good move, there was some ugly hate in there.

I don't disagree with a thing that ace did or said in the above - and no, there's no "but" coming.

I think more and more people are realizing that thuggery works and not with their consent.And as the very entities given the power to protect them refuse to use to - or use it against them - anger would seem to be a unsurprising reaction. And the longer these entities refuse to do their job, the angrier people will get.

Consider those comments to be a spot check of where we are and where we are heading.

31 The complaints were not "outraged."  They were along the lines of "The thread is getting ugly."

steve says I sound pissy.  I am.  I asked people to RATCHET IT DOWN politely, like a favor.  I was ignored.

This pisses me off.  It was a night off and I had to fucking tend to the blog, which pisses me off in the first place, and then when I make a polite request people say "Fuck you, buddy, I'm writin' whatever the fuck I like."

This is not some goddamned low-profile blog anymore, people.  I got a million unique hits this month alone.  What is written on this blog reflects first on me -- and this blog will follow me around for the REST OF MY LIFE, for good or ill -- as well as on conservatives and Republicans generally.

If you want to vent that way, do it on some small blog that no one reads and that PR companies do not monitor and that presidential candidates do not read.

I am getting tired of having to tell people over and over that a hateful tone is poisonous and unwelcome.

You want to write a tough opinion on an incendiary topic?  Fine -- but mind your tone.  Incendiary topic + angry, ill-considered tone = not fit for publication.

32

You people crying about free speech are idiots. Seriously, start your own blog and you can have whatever kind of crap you want on there.

It's not about free speech, it's about comments that are just plain ugly and unecessary and have nothing to do with the bastards that threaten our way of life.

It's Ace's blog and if he doesn't want that crap on here that should be the end of it.

33

Ace,

Was that Steve_in_hb? I'm going down there today for a baseball tournament. If you like, I can hunt him down and spill beer all over him.

34 Holy crap!  I was gonna ask what-the-hell-all I missed, and while I was tryna think of a funny way to do that, here's this:
Ace #3
"I'm not running this blog so that people can say "Kill every Muslim" six thousand times in a row."
Sounds like I didn't miss anything worth catching. 
But, um, not to be impertinent or anything, but would it be okay to say "Kill every 9/11-Truther" six thousand times in a row?  Please? 

35 actually, I was wrong, it was NOT_steve_in_hb.

36

I missed the thread completely; however, I find it interesting that the ones complaining about their free speech being violated are not regular commenters here.  Most likely they're trolls, who like to be able to point to hate-mongering here.

Let me explain something about free speech to those a bit too dense to get what ace is saying:  Free speech means you have a right to say what you want, but you do not have a right to have it heard in every venue of your choosing.  You can start your own blog and post all the hate-mongering shit you like, but you can't force anyone to read it.

Effectively, people who trot out the free speech canard for a comments section are claiming a right to be heard by ace's readership.  Sorry, not the case.

37

 actually, I was wrong, it was NOT_steve_in_hb.

That's ok, I'm still good to go.

38

Eh.  I hope this comes off as intended, which is in the spirit of wry observation.  This is a quote from a Radio Netherlands article about the kerfuffle:

"Slovenia says the film incites hatred, which in the Netherlands is an offence punishable by law. The Dutch government said the film only aims to hurt people´s feelings."

 

 

39 Who were the main offenders?

40 Didn't see the hate in the comments, unless you're talking about erg's comments and the flames erupting from the gasoline erg threw on the fire.  Old '60 saying 'if you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem.'  If moderate Islam will not become part of the solution, then they are part of the problem.  I must be missing the massive "Not In My Name" protests by moderate Muslims directed at the radical Islamists that would indicate that moderate Muslims are part of the solution.

41 You guys have to understand  - last night was a night off for ace. He was contentedly sitting at home in his lacy nightgown, wig, makeup, and fake nails. Having to take all that stuff off and get out of character in order to fix his blog ruined the one night a month he truly feels like himself.

42

Boy, I glad I didn't make one of my usual stupid statements, saved by late night BB.

How bout them Wildcats!  Davidson, not UK!

Banned erg?  Hell, I thought ace was erg just ginning up some traffic, no one is REALLY that stupid over here, now at Kos, that's another story.

43

I didn't think it was that bad, but I'm a moron.

It was mostly the "Islam is the problem" crowd venting, with the "Radical Islam is a minority" crowd trying to rein them in. 

Fuck it.  A bad day. 

44 A man's blog is his castle & catapulting diseased cow carcasses into Ace's is not free speech.

45

Not having seen what went on, I am sure you are doing the right thing.  However:

"ask yourself if someone reading this at work might be in trouble with Human Resources for reading the site if a coworker happened to read your commnent"

Pretty much puts a damper on this blog, doesn't it?  

 

.

46 steve_in_hb, nah, ace always blogs better when he feels pretty.

47 Well, the film is attacked by some element of the Muslim world, on the grounds it is hate speech ... and engenders strife and hate toward Muslims.  Or perhaps because it breaks their sharia laws.

While the more "hateful" responses here may be more towards the idea of selective censorship, it is still somewhat (wrongly) perceived as vindication that the film really does engender hate ... and really is therefore hate speech.

Since we are already several blocks down the road toward selective censorship by radical Islam, it really is not helpful to advance even that wrong perception. 

Better perhaps, to just show the film and claim that piece of free speech ground, rather than try to claim the right to hateful speech, which is maybe another cause for another day.  It may be a "right", but is not really constructive.

And this is Ace's place ... so listening to him might be nice ... at least occasionally ...


Or something like that.  ... 

48

He was contentedly sitting at home in his lacy nightgown, wig, makeup, and fake nails

I think you're jealous he looks better in your mom's nightgown than you do.

49 The first thing to understand about Free Speech is that it is not a Right of Venue.

50 Are hobo nails fake nails or just a redirected natural resource?

51 I didn't think it was that bad, but I'm a moron.

Me, either. But, I'm a moron, too.

I must be missing the massive "Not In My Name" protests by moderate Muslims directed at the radical Islamists that would indicate that moderate Muslims are part of the solution.

Over the years, I have known quite a few muslims and even some as friends. While I don't believe they would ever commit an act of terrorism, all of them expressed pleasure and approval any time the US was attacked by terrorists, and this goes all the way back to the Marine barracks bombing in Lebannon.

52 blaster WRT: "ask yourself if someone reading this at work might be in trouble with Human Resources for reading the site if a coworker happened to read your commnent"

No doubt. This is not a blog I would visit in front of peers or on company time. "Free speech" doesn't go over too well in every environment.

53 Here's a simple guideline: Before you spout off on a charged issue, ask yourself if someone reading this at work might be in trouble with Human Resources for reading the site if a coworker happened to read your commnent.

This blog sucks.

That's just the way it fucking is.

54 Do you have any responsibility to report these people,or is it perfectly acceptable to ignore what is happening around you?

See Iraq, where many, many people, suddenly having had their fear of repercussions greatly lessened, are doing just that. You know what they are? They're Muslims. If you know you're going to have your family slaughtered before your eyes for talking, you tend to STFU. That doesn't make you a co-conspirator, it makes you a realist. We have delivered some acceptable options, and reasonable Muslims are taking advantage of them. The broad brush helps no one, especially when you're slathering hate around with it.

55 The path of Western disillusionment:

Islam is peace...right? OK, well, there are plenty of Muslims who oppose radical Islamic principles of dhimmitude, taaqiya, jizya, etc.  Right? Well, well, ok, at least plenty of Muslims don't wanna see infidels blown up...right, right?...Right? please....

56

This blog sucks.

That's just the way it fucking is

But yet, here you are.

57

Could someone please explain where everyone is getting their definition of "free speech"? The way I understand it is that we are protected by the 1st Amendment from government censorship. Under that definition, neither Ace's decision to limit the comments on his site, nor terrorist threats against LiveLink (unacceptable because for reasons other than "free speech") would be considered violations of free speech. Even then, there is no absolute right to say whatever you want, e.g fighting words, libel, fraud, etc. What is the basis for the argument that any action (including by a non-government actor) which prevents some people from being heard is an impingement on free speech?

58

He was contentedly sitting at home in his lacy nightgown, wig, makeup, and fake nails

I think you're jealous he looks better in your mom's nightgown than you do. PJMomma.

 

You're just jealous he looks better in the nightgown than you do.

 

I keeeeed.

59 I missed the whole thing but here is my two cents on free speech. Free speech does not = say any damm thing that you want to. ( no yelling fire in a theaters). Free speech also come with responsibility, in short think before you speech/ write. Respect should always be shown to ones host.

60

Slice like a fuckin hammer, Ace.

61

Ace,

I don't blame you for clamping down.  Things clearly got out of hand.

Nobody who belongs here believes that we have the right to say whatever we want with complete anonymity, while leaving somebody else ... you ... to take the blame.  Anyone who *does* believe that, doesn't belong.

You continue to have one of the best blogs going; an equal mix of thoughtful commentary with irreverant wit. Please keep up the excellent work.

-- fret

62 Here's another rule:

The tougher the position you're taking, the softer your tone must be.

I don't want to stop people from taking positions.  But I will demand that if they take positions that are decidedly "tough" they mind their tone in expressing it.

This is similar to all the crap about black people.  You know what?   Black people are responsible for an ABSURDLY DISPROPORTIONATE amount of crime.

That fact is a fact, and it is frequently relevant in discussions ranging from black responsilbility for their own actions, whether the justice system is "biased" just because more blacks are in jail, and the adversarial culture than permeates the black underclass, resulting in a myriad of of (anti-)social dysfunctions.

However, there's a difference between using that datum to make a serious (if tough) point and simply tossing it out there as a reason blacks suck, or just ha-ha-ha-ing when stupid perps turn out to be black.

I mean, can you dig it?  I am speaking another fucking language here/?  I do not think what I am suggesting is either all that restrictive, nor unfair, nor a form of serious censorship.

I am asking -- all I am asking -- is that when people address serious, incendiary issues and take tough (that is, not politically correct) opinions as to those issues, just *MIND YOUR TONE AND WATCH NOT JUST WHAT YOU SAY BUT HOW IT IS LIKELY TO BE TAKEN.*

i have to watch myself on this all the time.  I have, a thousand times, written something about "Muslims" initially only to realize my error and rewrite it as "Islamofascists" a moment later.

I realize you guys do not have editing power.  So you don't get to take stuff back like I can. 

This is a problem, and it puts an unfair burden on you; you have to get it right the first time.

But please, knowing there is no edit button for your posts, DO take that extra thirty seconds to re-read and re-consider a comment which is potentially incendiary to make sure 1) it really is exactly what you want to say and 2) even if it is what you want to say, if it's fit for public expression on what is, believe it or not, a pretty prominent and high profile blog, as far as these stupid things go.

63 A lot of people really get unhinged about this shit. No fault of theirs, honestly, it's heinous.

But they need some perspective and need to see that not everybody that goes against their rage is against them.

Like with "fuck the EU" shit. You gotta realize WTF they're dealing with. Historically, Europe is one of the most xenophobic places on the planet. You still get in fights with waiters if you bring a black guy into restaurants in many areas, fights in bars and the streets. It happened to me several times.

The leaders there talk a good line of shit about tolerance and thats their way to prevent another Great European Freakout. It AIN'T gonna work, either. Europeans always do this shit when they could just honestly deal with it like adults to begin with.

Anyway, everybody freaking out about the EU pussies - I agree, they're pussies. But its going to come to a head sooner or later and maybe you should consider what you're egging on.

64

You're just jealous he looks better in the nightgown than you do.

*sobs

*cries

*screams

NOOOOOOOOOOOO! It's true, it's true. You bastard.

*eats 5 chocolate bars for consolation

*sniff

Big jerk.

65 Am I the only one that thought "Fitna" was poorly produced, contained nothing new, and just generally sucked? 

66 I would like to take this opportunity to say "Fuck Whitey!" Because that's how I roll.

67

Your site, your rules.

Do whatever you think you need to do.

68 The only reason all of us are here is because at some level we relate to Ace and to his view of the world--likes, dislikes, sense of humor, etc. The site is, to a great extent, a reflection of a person that we can connect with. 

Otherwise we wouldn't be here.  Ace has to have the freedom to police the comments (and, to a greater extent, the co-bloggers).  Otherwise, this site will eventually cease to reflect Ace, and many of us who came he to listen to the tard-in-chief pontificate will get bored and move on.

69 Incidentally, the few comments here on the substance of the controversy are fine.

Whether Muslims are approving of or silently complicit in the actions of their terrorist correligionists IS and MUST BE a fair topic of debate.

But when the tone veers into "kill them all, let god sort them out" or the like...

Look, pithiness is a virtue but NOT when it comes to subjects like this.  You may think it is pithy and punchy to say "Islam is a cancer on the body human" and, admittedly, that does crystalize the sentiment in a very brief and provocative way, but:  No.  No.  No.

There are some issues you should not strive for pithiness on.  Nor be snarky about.

If anyone wants to write a serious post about the scourge of black criminality, have at it -- it is a completely legitimate topic which does NOT get addressed by the MSM or practically anybody because it is so "divisive" and "politically incorrect."

But if you just want to snark "Gee what a shock, the perps are black, who would have thought," no thanks, save it.  That observation has two disadvantages, 1 that it is potentially offensive and suggests simple anti-black animus and 2 that it is so fucking obvious and not funny that there's no reason t say it.  It advances no argument nor idea.  It is simply grousing and venting.

70 Xander Crews,

In my post (#52), I'm using the term loosely to mean "speech without cost." Sure, I could say, write, visit, note, or explain "controversial" blogs (assuming I'd even burn business resources to visit any blog during employ) to my peers, and one of them could find offense and report it up the chain. That freedom of speech, that is to say the innate support/reinforcement of those views by disclosing to another, is available to me in any venue. The risk? I could get fired or lose a contract/account because of it. So, I can freely speak but that doesn't mean no costs are involved.

I'm not trying to insist upon "free speech" on someone else's dime or reputation at any point.

71

I can't keep track of all the different lines of argument in the comments above, but would like to submit a few questions and observations.

1. Banning stupid comments intended to incite hatred directed against ANYONE makes sense.

2. Is the main controversy surrounding the video, the fact that it is interpreted as anti-muslim, or that in could encourage "pajama muslims" to take action?

3. If I were a hard-core radical muslim watching this, I would think it was another propaganda piece churned out by Al-Jazzera. Just add some arabic subtitles and forward to all Jihadi websites. They probably dig the video.

4. As a white christian, the films intent seems like a ham-fisted attempt to condense Jihadi-inspired atrocities into an overly simplified political statement, which unfortunatily sheds more heat than light. Anyone who hasn't been living in a bomb shelter for the last seven-plus years, is already aware of these things going on, and has made a judgement on whether these acts are either justified or not. So I dont think any minds will be changed by it's production or publication.

5. That being said, the only group that should legitimately be outraged by this production, would be mainstream muslims, who also unfortunately have been FAR too silent/complicit in radical Islams violent past. I would be nice to hear a little more from the mainstream (if it's really out there) in condemning both hate speech AND violence.

6. While I believe everyone should have access to the video, to make thier own judgement about it, I wonder if there is line that could be crossed concerning incendiary/hate speech, (I dont consider the film either) that all media sources/blogs, etc. should refuse to show or promote. Free range speech seems to be forcing us to confront how much speech SHOULD be free.

What a dilemma!

 

72

Ummm, okay.  Miss a lot when I'm chasing a toddler around ... must have been some thread.

 

Let me see if I can boil this down to less than a Beldar-length comment for you, Ace.

 

With freedom comes responsibility.  Read and heed.  Learn it and live it.

 

(And btw, if someone from the other side puts up inflammatory stuff just to make us look bad, are they "racial Mobys" or are they still just plain "Mobys"?)

73
This is just all a cover-up. Malor went crying to Ace about us offering him up as a human sacrifice. No one was going to, or wanted to, blow up Malor. Okay?

74 a lot of people will say "But this is a serious issue that needs to be addressed."

Fine.  Then behave that way and treat it SERIOUSLY, and not as fodder for snark and ill-considered rants.

"Fuck Mohammad and the camel he rode in on," the single line from a comment yesterday is not, um, treating this supposedly serious subject very seriously, is it?

Am I crazy here?  Is there some hidden seriousness to that bon mot that I am somehow unable to perceive?

Is the "War for Western Civilization" going to falter because I stepped in on that one and said "Knock it off, knucklehead"?

Honestly, some people seriously overestimate the actual rhetorical and ideological value of their one-off drive-by vents.

75 Malor had nothing to do with this. 

76 PJ, you know I love you. Dump the hubby and the kids, we'll talk.

77 What are you saying? That blogging/commenting is a waste of time, whose only value is entertainment?  That's CRAZY talk.

78 Banning stupid comments intended to incite hatred directed against ANYONE makes sense.

You have any idea how many comments intended to cite hatred towards dirty filthy scandis, aka, icewops, aka, snowbillies are posted?  Good God man . . . you would have everyone banned.

79

Ace's blog Ace's rules.

Having said that I read the whole post last night and I didn't think it was all that bad. 

80

PJ, you know I love you.

*arm punch

aw shucks.

81

"Can we all just live together?".

What is it about, No,  folks don't understand?

It is a known fact everyone hates UNC basketball, except "those people" so get over it.

ABC, Anybody But Carolina.

82

Oh great, now we've got a tanker in the thread.

What's next, bowing down before the Scandis?

83 Hmmm, will we win by 50 points tonight, or only 10?

84 I asked people to RATCHET IT DOWN politely, like a favor.  I was ignored.

I'll throw in my two cents.  To me, that was dispositive.  I cannot think of the last time that ace asked, politely or not, that comments be toned down.  Ace's site.  Ace's rules.  When he was ignored, hell, told to go screw himself, well, that's that.  I would have shown all y'all the door. 

I know that erg was throwing gasoline on the fire, but the best response would have been to ignore him.  Trust me, there are comments made here that make me see red.  But since I know I'm incapable of responding politely, I don't respond at all.  There's no need to feed the fire.  Besides, responding gives credence to those views. 

Like it or not, those of us on the Right are being held to a higher standard when it comes to discussing the problems of militant Islam.  Sure, it's infuriating but that's just the way it fucking is.  At the very least, we owe it to Ace to respect his requests. 

85 Am I the only one that thought "Fitna" was poorly produced, contained nothing new, and just generally sucked? 

Knemon,

You are not alone. My first comment was that it was nothing more than agitprop that would only rile people up (do I win a prize for being master of the obvious?). It offered no context of how we got here or what to do.

That kind of stuff was fine for WWII type conflicts where it was nothing but smash and kill. Despite what some may wish, that's not the war we are fighting.  It's important to know who we are fighting in this war and what they are capable of but for better or worse, a lot of our actions are going to have to be 'nuanced'. 

86 Obviously, there is a difference between expressing the idea that we need to ship muslims back to where they came from because we cannot afford to become a police state by trying to treat them all like sane humans when only about 25% of them are, and saying "kill them all".

But of course, they say they should kill all of us, and we are supposed to be understanding of their culture, and how they are just mad at us because we chose not to follow the teachings of a 7th century child molesting mass murdering freak.

 Everyone in the west is caving into cowardly behavior. Like some liberal asshat said, no one is afraid of Mormons, so everyone is allowed to bash them, but people are afraid of Muslims, so we need to tread lightly. That is cowardice, period. Everyone is also afraid of the PC police and the feminist twats in the HR departments of the world. We all have a living to make, but let's not simply give in and go down the tubes to Dhimmitude without as much resistance as possible.

That being said, people should remember "plausable deniability". People shouldn't have stuff on their (or anyone elses) hard drives that the FBI may someday be interested in should the day come that we have to take individual action to save our culture.

87

AnonymousDrivel:

Although I can't say that I completely follow your latest post (70), I don't have an issue with your use of the phrase "free speech" at (52). That was pretty funny, actually. My concern (57) is that people are confusing the 1st Amendment ("Congress shall make no law . . . abridging the freedom of speech") with the idea that people have an innate right to say anything at any time. My question is, from what is that second concept derived? It may be a legitimate philosophical concept for all I know.

 

88

Blacks....check

Islam...check

Illegal Immigration...coming soon

Homosexuals...coming soon

 

 

 

89 I see a lot of unserious treatment of serious issues here, and yet the line is drawn at one particular religion and murder of all its practitioners and all its camels.

As many others commenting now, I missed all the rudeness and host-ignoring, and can't really second guess anything except what is revealed here about that thread, and what I imagine to have happened. Even if I wanted to, which I don't

But it seems to me fucking mohammed and the camel he rode in on is as weighty commentary for a moron as I have seen on many other subjects. I suppose the heartfelt nature of the remark discerned from context, and its insubordinate use, was the clincher?

90

Watch the tanker comment Brad.  You have TWO of them here.  We actually prefer the term "CDAT"

Computerized Dumb Ass Tanker.

And my Momma was a Scandi, does that make me bad?

91 Hey pseudo-Con Law experts who bitch about Ace's actions in the context of "free speech."  Read this:

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

Now tell me where the word "Ace" appears.

Get over yourselves--his house his rules.  Much like my dwelling where I have a "NO FRED BARNES" sign in the front yard.

92 Speaking of free speech, how is it that  hosting companies don't have to abide by it, if they are getting their right to host from a govt entity? DARPA started the internet, how can hosting companies get lisence to host on it then censor?

Or do I not at all understand how someone can set up hosting?
Or is is advertisers that threaten you Ace?

93 Um, no Muslims are threatening me.  The FBI isn't coming to get me.

You are a paranoid nutjob. 

94 And my Momma was a Scandi, does that make me bad?

Oh, damn. Too bad this isn't a flame thread. That right there is a hanging curve ball.

95

Oh, damn. Too bad this isn't a flame thread. That right there is a hanging curve ball.

Half-breed, that's all I ever heard
Half-breed, how I learned to hate the word
Half-breed, she's no good they warned
Both sides were against me since the day I was born

Everybody sing!

96 I don't even know what we are talking about, but I'm sure the solution boils down to this: you all fail.

97 How can people here not understand the difference between addressing the problem of Islamic radicalism and plain old outright bigotry? "Plain talk" or "telling it like it is" shouldn't be a smokescreen for your racial or cultural prejudices, and if you can't tell when you're crossing that line, then you're probably every bit the racist asshole that lefty's think we all are.

If you're leaving a comment specifically for the purpose of saying something nasty about a huge group of people, then you're probably wrong. This is kindergarten stuff.

98 Sean Bannion,

Quoting a Cher song? So in addition to being half Scandi, you are old and have teh ghey (not that there's anything wrong with that)?

Okay, seriously...Not. A. Flame. Thread. Must. Exercise. Self. Control.

99 Kill all humans.

100 Henry,
I too, have had my fill of Scandi jokes. Just what is so funny about kakelugns, I'd like to know.

101

What's your point Drew?

I also cut down trees wear high heels suspenders and a bra.

It's not like I wanna be a girly, just like my dear papa.

Isn't the the AoS lifestyle?  Or am I just misreading Chapter 1 in the club handbook?

102 >>>I see a lot of unserious treatment of serious issues here, and yet the line is drawn at one particular religion and murder of all its practitioners and all its camels.

Sarah, um, no, it's not just "one particular religion."  It was also blacks.

Whether you buy this or not, I do:  There is something to be said for not broad-brushing huge groups of people unnecessarily.  Which means, "more than is necessary to make your point."

And in case you didn't notice, the one remaining taboo in our society is about race/ethnicity.

Incidentally, I have repeatedly criticized those who Mormon-bash, too.  Same deal.  Mormons aren't coming to kill me anytime soon but I find that whole thing weird and nasty.  No, I never put up a big post about it or closed a thread, but I repeatedly bashed the (yes) haters.  Mike Huckabee first among them.

If you want to fight against this impulse, have at it, but I don't really disagree that venom directed at a large group of people *without* some serious, argument-advancing thinking behind it is pretty low on the list for speech which must be protected.

I distinguish between serious discussions of tough issues and simple venting. 

Again I note the porn thing:  I don't post porn and I tell people not to post porn links.  No one gets much incensed that their right to free speech is "chilled" by that. 

But on the subjects of blacks and Muslims, when I caution people primarily as to *tone* and not substance, all of a sudden I'm squashing people's rights to freely express themselves.

103

Um... how come no one seems to have noticed... Islam is not yet beheading Christian school children in Indonesia, There are not yet any riots reported in the 'press'. Are the members of the religion of perpetual outrage going to sit this one out?

What am I missing?

104

Sean Bannion, two tankers, one grunt, sound like an unfair fight. I'll wait while you get a couple more...

As my old boss used to say, "It's easy being brave behind two feet of armor." (Armor officer who rose to 3 stars)

And yes, Sean, having a Scandi mom makes you bad. Unless she's hot.

105 mr minority,

You're an idiot and I don't have time for your crap.  You're so filled with hatred that you can't conceive that someone just might not groove on the hate you stew in without having some ulterior reason for claiming otherwise.

106 Sean,

I believe Drew wishes he could turn back time.

Not that there's anything wrong with that.

107

I read the thread start to finish last night and while there was a fair number of morons (no, REAL morons, not AoS morons) in the thread I took them for what they were worth.  People who lack a conscience. 

Having said all that, it's Ace's blog.  His rules.  I don't know where anyone gets off subliminally accusing him of censorship or a lack of commitment to free speech.

OK, I'm back on topic now.

108

I prefer "treadheads" to "tankers". 

 

Unless they're bringing that 120 to bear.  Then I call them whatever they like best.

109 sarah,

A lot of people hate blacks too.  Should I allow one of the gems of this past week, "All N-----s should be hanged," in the interest of free and robust discussion as well?

I repeatedly tell people I don't mind substance, even very politically dicey substance, but I am worried about *tone* and the cumulative effect of a series of almost substance-free "Blacks are dumb" and "all muslims must be killed" vents.

I don't get your point, honestly.  

110 No Sean, you fit right in. Welcome.

111 Dude, when you say your livelihood is being threatened, I think of the two usual suspects : Hosting service threatening to shut you down for violating TOS, advertisers quit advertising, or you are worried that someone is making what the FBI would call a "terroristic threat" or "incitement to violence".

I didn't mention muslims threatening you.

But as far as paranoid goes....GUILTY
Western society is approaching "Brave New World/1984" territory. People are getting 30 years for threating a president, but Sandy Berger gets a slap on the wrist. The FBI can break into your house, tap your pc, and never tell you.

Yeah, I am paranoid.

112 Damn, I missed the entire thing.  Now Ace is all cranky and I'm inappropriately...intrigued. 

113 I think a lot of this would be cleared up if you just show us what your secret whitey signal looks like so we don't keep thinking you gave it to us.

114 .Not. A. Flame. Thread. Must. Exercise. Self. Control.

Well, you could always start a flame thread.  Just, you know, tossing that out there.

115 >>>Dude, when you say your livelihood is being threatened, I think of the two usual suspect

How about longtime readers telling me they're fucking AFRAID to open up the comments lately?

How about the blog getting banned by safe-search type programs at companies as a "hate site"?

How about people just generally turning off to the blog because they don't like associating with hardcore racists?

Etc.

How about me just getting fuck of sick of writing a blog that is beginning to resemble Stormfront?

116

"Sir" works for us Dave.  Right Brad?

117 alexthechick,

Maybe later when things have cooled down a bit.

Also, that's LauraW's shtick. Trust me, that's on hunchback you do not want to cross.

118 Xander Crews,

Yeah, my post was crap. I was mainly trying to differentiate the normal concept of free speech and the "free speech" I can (but won't) enjoy on the job. I was specifically not addressing the classical free speech argument which, as you rightly point out, is the restraint placed on government to reign in my inalienable rights.

As to the philosophical nature, I'll just say that an individual has very wide latitude to say whatever one wants, with a very few caveats, and that one is generally restrained by the social, not really legal, environment one occupies. Of course, that line gets blurred into litigation when employers need act as intermediaries in PC conflict resolution. Outside the workplace, however, the soapbox is always available. Uncle Sam won't be hauling me off to the gulag... unless it's a certain number of days out from an election and I'm attacking a politician. Then, some bets are off.

119

Mr. Nobody,

Maybe you missed Ace's comment "Who was complaining?  Long time readers, commenters, and tipsters, that's who."

That's his livelihood. If he pisses them off, they quit coming here. That costs him money. That's not paranoia, the FBI, hosting matters, TOS. That's just plain business sense. Perhaps it would be better if you drank a tall, warm glass of STFU and relax.

120 "I distinguish between serious discussions of tough issues and simple venting. "

And generally get it right. I'd be shocked if you didn't this time.

I haven't seen you mistake meta-bigotry and plain bigotry any time that I can recall. I think some other's might not draw the line so adeptly.

And I do myself have a predjudice that followers of Islam are unprepared to tolerate a joke at its expense. This seems to stimulate in myself a pleasurable sensation when I see it laughed at.

121 Mr. Hand a.k.a. "VICTIMS IN GENERAL,"

Blacks....check

Islam...check

Illegal Immigration...coming soon

Homosexuals...coming soon

 Add another "victim" to your list:  boo-fucking-hoo white people whose pussies are weeping because they're not allowed to make any fucking comment they like on a blog.

122 Maybe later when things have cooled down a bit.

Well, I'll admit to being Brave Sir Robin about flame threads so I'd say that's a wise choice. 

How about me just getting fuck of sick of writing a blog that is beginning to resemble Stormfront?

I wouldn't say it's nearly like that, but then again, I simply didn't read any of those comment threads.  Ace, I think it's incredibly obvious that you don't share those views, I mean, if you did, then you wouldn't tell people to knock it off.  But I can see why it's wearisome to have to deal with those who cannot abide by the simplest measure of common courtesy. 

123 How about longtime readers telling me they're fucking AFRAID to open up the comments lately?

How about longtime readers who are afraid to post because you're all over the map and have no clear idea when you'll drop a ban on them? One minute you're using the HR guidelines for posting and then in the very same posting, you'd make a longshoreman blush. Draw some consistent guidelines and stick to them.

124 >>>And I do myself have a predjudice that followers of Islam are unprepared to tolerate a joke at its expense. This seems to stimulate in myself a pleasurable sensation when I see it laughed at.

Yes, I concede that point:  The very fact that some threaten violence when Islam is "insulted" makes the act of insulting Islam almost a moral imperative.

I get this.  That is why I posted the Fitna link.

*HOWEVER*, let's be cautious of friendly fire, too, okay?  Not every Muslim is against us, though I certainly am not buying the "small number of bad apples" bullshit myself.

It does us little good to insult allies in an uncautious hurry to insult our enemies.

125 Its one of the problems when  you have an open commenting/no registration policy. Sometimes I wish it would be that way, but then the same slack-jawed redneck amazement I feel when looking at the high art of a Spyrograph do its magic would be missing somehow...

126 Additional Blond Agent,

How about you stop pretending you don't know what the guidelines are?

It's not that you don't have a pretty clear sense of what they are -- it's that you disagree with them.

Tough.  I win.

127

ABA, you're kidding me right?  He HAS done that, ad nauseaum.

 

128 Boo-fucking-hoo white people whose pussies are weeping because they're not allowed to make any fucking comment they like on a blog....check

129 Draw some consistent guidelines and stick to them.

"Act like an adult and think before posting" isn't good enough? Why the need for libtard-style rules?

130 Bravo, Ace.  And thank you.

I missed the whole thing and I'm glad I did.  We can use discourse, not hate and anger.

131 Wow, looks like I missed a big dust-up last night.

132 The sex/racism thing is ludicrous.  Yes, sex talk is impolite.  But I clearly allow it.  Except for porn, and except for the three times I had to caution WickedPinto that the blog was R-Rated, not X-rated, and I didn't want to hear his lovingly-detailed sex stories every other day of the week.

You know damn well that sex stuff is generally fine.  You know that racist, or on the edge of racist, or racially insensitive, stuff is not.

You are pretending you're all confused about what is off limits when you know perfectly well what I'm talking about, you just don't like it.

Well, again, whatever.  Every business and media company has an image and a brand identity.  This is mine.  If you don't like it, I don't know what to say except you have long been a welcome and much-enjoyed commenter but if this is all too much restriction for you, there are six million blogs on the net and I'm sure you can find one better suited to your tastes.

133 Ace - point taken about cumulative "tone" of posting, etc.

I just hope no delicacy is extended to islam that would not be extended to one of those herring-smoker-knees.

134

Ace?  You ever feel like you're repeatedly pounding your head against a concrete wall aound here?

 

135

Goog God, it's starting to sound like a Dem primary in here. We need to get past this, because all the time Ace is spending here explaining the obvious for the umpteenth time is time he should be spending finding stupid stuff for us to laugh at. I'm getting pretty tired of the Davis/Cutler post. Get back to work, Ace.

 

Seriously, I would REALLY hate to see Ace take the registration/no comment route. That's why I lost interest in Hot Air. I come here for the commenters every bit as much as the posts, so let's not fuck this up.

136 Ace,
Your blog fills a void left by the PCification of LGF. I really hope you don't quite go down the road that he chose a few months ago.

When your blog ends up filled with comments from people sucking up  or piling on(like Brad above), then you have reached your peak and can go no higher. Obviously you have to draw a line, but I hope you draw it on the side of those who think that the thin-skinned need to grow a set and deal with it, rather than on the side of the thin-skinned who think everyone else is a hate-mongering meanie.

And if it is racist to see that the majority of muslims are either against us or not against those who really are against us, then I'm guilty. We live in a white washed world, where they can find this:
http://www.bloggernews.net/114773
and the FBI says "don't worry".
Where this comes out:
http://www.jihadwatch.org/dhimmiwatch/archives/007166.php
and we somehow are expected to think that only a small minority of muslims are the problem.

Is it "stormfront" to be worried about it, and to think that waiting for gov't action (without pushing)  is the road to suicide?

137

Dave in Texas...how 'bout them Longhorns?

P.S. Can we still make fun of Aggies?

138 Ace seems a little grumpy since he won blogger of the year....

139 One minute you're using the HR guidelines for posting and then in the very same posting, you'd make a longshoreman blush. Draw some consistent guidelines and stick to them.

Additional Blond Agent,

One thought on that...the rules are different for what Ace puts in his entries and what happens in the comments. Ace can push the limits because they are his to push.

It might be tougher for new people to figure they don't need to and shouldn't try to follow where Ace goes but for those of us who have been around here long enough, it's pretty clear where the line is.

Also, when Ace pushes his own lines (and he's crossed them himself on occasion and made note of that) he does it by trying to make a point with humor. I haven't read every word he's written but I think you'd be hard pressed to find a place where he just says something like 'Fuck/Kill (insert your choice of group here)'. That's neither funny nor informative. I am not sure where any commenter thinks they get the green light for that kind of stuff.

As a commenter, I don't think the game is to find the line and toe up to it. If I am angry and pissed, I think of the line and take 2 or 3 steps back. Just to be safe.

It's not PC self-censorship, it's just the decent thing to do.

140 "Your blog fills a void left by the PCification of LGF. I really hope you don't quite go down the road that he chose a few months ago."

Mr. Nobody - I'll play the role of suckup and just say it straight out: Ace isn't going down any road.  The "Kill the Mooslims" shit is coming HERE, and if it's coming as a result of Charles finally imposing discipline at his place, Ace is letting you know: take it somewhere else.

Clear enough?

141 Ace - and I'll just add that "and yet the line is drawn at one particular religion and murder of all its practitioners and all its camels." was actually less a complaint that you cowtow to the wrong sort, than an ironic message that of course it isn't dutch to call for the murder of an entire religion and all its practitioners.

142 Put another way: very few/none of the commenters here subscribe to the "tiny minority" view. But the point is

1) it's not then necessarily a "reverse tiny minority." 50-50, 60-40, hell, 80-20 against us, that's still hundreds of millions of people.

2) This is a general blog with specific reference to The Gathering Storm. Can we just fucking take it AS READ?  What's all the chest-thumping "I hate and fear Mohametans more than you do!" territorial pissing of late?  WE GOT IT.

143 Add another "victim" to your list:  boo-fucking-hoo white people whose pussies are weeping because they're not allowed to make any fucking comment they like on a blog.

Another Victim:  Menstruating Women Silenced by Ace?

*HOWEVER*, let's be cautious of friendly fire, too, okay?

Oh, jeesh. I just recovered from the other time you used "friendly fire" when you were talking about threesomes and here you use it again.

144 Maybe Ace should just publish an AOS Lifestyle Manifesto detailing how its all about hobo-killing and hatin' on the dirty Scandis while chuggling on Val-U-Rite in opposition to Islamofag hatin' and all that asshat shit.

At least then it'd be a fun thread, goddamit.

145

I'm mostly a lurker here but have enjoyed this blog for a few years now. I missed most of "The Threads" later comments due to the fact that wifey decided it was gonna be one of those rare, leather strapped, sex thingy nights. And I am usually of the belief that no speech can offend me.

 

Yet when I show up at a friends house. It is clean shaved and showered. With a bottle of fine wine in hand.

146

For those of you who think along these lines:

But of course, they say they should kill all of us, and we are supposed to be understanding of their culture, and how they are just mad at us because we chose not to follow the teachings of a 7th century child molesting mass murdering freak.

What do you think about the war in Iraq (and Afghanistan)? Is creating a democracy there a waste of time? Is training them to take care of themselves useless since "they" hate us? Those Iraqi troops and police working side-by-side and risking their lives with US troops, is that all a sham? Since "they" secretly despise all Americans and want us all dead? Is that what you really think?

If people here really believe "most" muslims are against us I would expect the comments to be vehemently against the strategy of the war - extablishing democracy, training Iraqis, providing food, money, rebuilding of infrastructure, etc. - I would expect the commenters to be railing against the current strategy and instead proposing genocide - since "they" (most muslims) are our "enemy."

You can't have it both ways.

147

12 - Thanks. I grabbed the film (only an 11MB wmv file size everyone: good job of compression, Steve) ...for later viewing. Maybe. I tried watching it (a couple of times), from Ace's link (I never even looked into the comments, as I'd heard about the film already and thought I'd watch it first) and couldn't get past the cell phone call from the Tower, and the bodies falling like maple leaves. I have to stop it there, just as the second plane impacts and the people go running down the street. I closed it.

Because I get angry - very, very angry - all over again. And yeah ...I've got a ton of Iranian friends (and none that you'd ever call remotely devout ...not even all that observant). And it took me awhile several years back (geez, time flies) to correlate the candy being distributed at the office (in my old job: yes, I quit the best job I ever had, and this was one of the reasons), and some frickin' odious act by terrorist militants somewhere afar off (in Israel, generally: but to us, too) ...and I realize that my "anecdote" is not "evidentiary", but still: my friends are the moderate Muslims ...and I am not sanguine about the future.

Because sooner or later, if those "moderates" in the Dar al-Islam don't clean their own house (and I wish they would, but I don't think they're going to be able to: because the evil AQ'ists are willing to kill anyone and everyone in the way of the Global Caliphate ...AQ has unleashed ancient Evil upon the world, and the result is going to be what it is, and what it always has been ...and based upon what I have seen: at some gut level, or some basic tenet that is imbibed with mother's milk, they don't really want to "clean" their house, and bin Laden's "strong horse" isn't that far off the mark), the West is going to have to go to - full, complete, devastating - war again: and the outcome will be much worse than the combined totals of the Euro-Pacific wars of the 20th century.

Because ...maybe ...phobos, kerdos, and doxa ...wasn't just a masterful short story ...but prophetic?

Becaise the Dar al-harb is going to - will be forced to - make the Dar al-Islam a proposition they won't be able to refuse.

...so is this what you meant by "respectful", Ace, but acceptable? And I'm not asking if Ace agrees with the content, people.

(And do feel free to delete the damn thing if it's not. And. The ability of the commenter and host to delete a post is one thing sorely needed on the dot.nu comment system.)

148

Mr. Nobody,

Reviewing my comments, I can see where you might get the impression that I'm sucking up to Ace. I'm not. I am acting in my own self interest. I told Ace that I didn't think Erg should be banned, and I didn't think the thread should be deleted. I understand, however, why he chose to take those actions. I disagree, but it isn't up to me.

This blog, however, is one of my favorites, and it troubles me that in the last week or so, Ace has had to spend an inordinate amount of time policing the threads to purge comments people who either preach hate (to black/muslims/whoever) or fail to use good judgment and post something that is inflammatory when perhaps they meant no harm. The time Ace spends on this is time Ace is not writing posts, or finding stupid stuff to blog on. This also detracts from the blog as then I don't get to see the resulting comments from some of the folks who bring the funny.

I'm not trying to get in tight with Ace. I'm trying to get him to do his fucking job.

149 "I'm not trying to get in tight with Ace."

I am.

(Ace! Call me!)

150 You ever feel like you're repeatedly pounding your head against a concrete wall aound here?

It's the only way to get that dumb song out of our heads.

Half Breed! I can't get that song out of my head!
Half Breed! A certain scandi may wind up dead!

151

One of the links Mr. Nobody put up had this statement at the top of its comments section:

Note: Comments on articles are unmoderated, and do not necessarily reflect the views of Dhimmi Watch or Robert Spencer. Comments that are off-topic, offensive, slanderous, or otherwise annoying may be summarily deleted. However, the fact that particular comments remain on the site IN NO WAY constitutes an endorsement by Robert Spencer of the views expressed therein.

Any thoughts on a similar disclaimer here?

152 Bummer. There was also some good stuff in that thread.

This is why we make everyone post comments in a forum that requires registration. Its one step removed from the actual blog, so its harder to smear the blogger with comments by readers. Also, since you can't read posts unless your regged, people can't link to an outrageous comment and stain you with that commenter's stink.

Maybe you should think about doing that, making a forum. Powerline does that as well (although we beat them by like 5 years).

153

doc, that's exactly what I want to avoid here. It's also why powerline pretty much dropped off my radar.

I think even if people want to smear Ace, he's been in the threads enough to defend against that. It just pisses me off that he has to.

No problem with the disclaimer, but he's already shown that to be the defacto policy by his actions.

154 Why download? You can watch it live, right this minute, in either Dutch or with English subtitles, on Wikileaks.

155

Guy...only half Scandi.  Is there some kind of Scandi Jim Crow law around here? 

What's it called?  The Olaf Knudssen law?

156 Sean, you still active duty? Still O-4?

157 Freedom of speech is either absolute (barring yelling fire in a crowded theater) or it isn't freedom of speech. Talk about the responsible use of freedom of speech is the first step toward a quick slide down the slippery slope marked censorship.

But hey, if Ace wants to be taken seriously, be relevant, be a playa, that's a whole other ballpark. A ballpark where you can, where in fact you must kiss freedom of speech away.

158 I think everyone should hit Ace's tip jar to compensate him for all the fucking pissiness he had to waste when he could have been writing - or choking a scandi.

Or his chicken.

Do you realize that the energy he's expended ripping some of us a new asshole - and rightfully so - could have been used constructively to kill hobos?

C'mon now, ante up!

159 I can't persuade all of you so at some point I'll just have to note I don't *have* to persuade you.

I can simply begin banning you.  It's that simple.

I am not going to ban people for a single hasty, ill-considered remark.

I am not going to ban people for being a little hot about hot button issues.

I am not going to ban people without warning.

But I have warned and re-warned some people multiple times and either the warning is heeded or commenting privileges will be suspended.

160 Spend money? Now that's just crazy talk!

161

No Brad, Retired June '06 as an O-5.  Once a tanker...always a tanker.

Unfortunately, one can say the same about being Scandi.  :::sniff:::

162

This is a bar/lounge atmosphere.  Ace is the bartender. He says you're outta line, you change the fuckin subject. How hard is that?  Thats not stifiling free speech.  Thats Ace keeping the atomsphere he wants. 

First asswipe that forgets that is outta here.  Only way to play it.   Thanks, Ace, for keeping the place nice.  

163 It's like Uncle says on his blog...Uncle pays the bills.

164 No sweat Sean, got out in 99. Just wondered if we might have crossed paths in the past. Ever spend time with 1-37Ar?

165 I'm just happy that presidential candidates know I'm leading in the moron brackets.

Ban away.

166 Freedom of speech is either absolute (barring yelling fire in a crowded theater) or it isn't freedom of speech. Talk about the responsible use of freedom of speech is the first step toward a quick slide down the slippery slope marked censorship.

riccpic,

Do you seriously not see the difference between have the right to say whatever the hell you want on the street corner or in you own home and demanding someone let you into their home or place of business to say it?

It's hard to imagine so many people in this country have such fundamental misunderstandings about our basic rights.

167

Guy...only half Scandi.  Is there some kind of Scandi Jim Crow law around here?

Half?  In that case, will let you drink out of the water fountain, but only a quick sip.

168 This is one of my top 4 fav sites too. I don't want Ace worrying about losing money or gettting sued or whatever. I do like the edgy dialogue. I will be miserable if it turns into LGF, or if it degenerates into stormfront too.

169 No, Brad you guys were across the pond at the time.  I was with 1-63 AR, 2-34 AR and 1-4 CAV.

170 Take the following as ye may -

At the time I was at that particular thread, I read a few ugly statements but Erg's were uglier. I limited my nastycommentiness to Erg himself and then my DSL connection went down, again (thank you, SBC / AT&T!). Anyway Ace wouldn't have closed a thread just for what I'd got to see.

So I take it that a horde of n00bs and haters came in and lost us the high ground. Well done, dickheads.

I've been on this site awhile but I can't call myself part of the inner circle of commenters here. I do make an effort to be civil unless there is obvious idiocy afoot. I certainly don't want to do anything that hurts Ace or this blog.

Sometimes I post something stupid. It happens. Ace is pretty understanding of moronity. I try to apologise for such a post if I notice first or if someone calls me on it. If my posts are starting to slide into imbecility and/or insanity, then I should probably get banned for mine own good. I'll take that as a warning to check into rehab.

Re, mr nobody, "the PCification of LGF": Clearly LGF had lost patience for you over there. Somehow I've managed to disagree with Charles and other lizards in certain threads and NOT earned a ban. Take ace's warnings for your posts as a pointer to where your life is going. Do you want to be consumed by hate?

171 Or if it becomes bland white meat like powerline

172

Phenry captured it nicely for me.

How about longtime readers who are afraid to post because you're all over the map and have no clear idea when you'll drop a ban on them?

Unclear on the concept.  I have a very clear idea. 

Sean, Sir or anything else you would have me address you with works for me when 60 tons of killin machine are bearing down.  I'll call you Caesar, Paul Anka, whatever.  No sabot round, please.

ricpic, read a book or something on the concept "freedom of speech".  This moron site isn't THE MAN OPPRESSING YOU.  Honestly, dude (dudette?), asking a blog to defend your God-given right to be a jerk is more than a bit whiney.

173

Half?  In that case, will let you drink out of the water fountain, but only a quick sip.

I am perfectly willing to be the House Scandi so you guys can, you know, be PC and all that.  But I want a ration of bourbon once a month to do so.

Oh, and more Kristen Davis pics.  You got any of those?

174 There's a place for bland white meat, there's a place for (some) screedyness. And then there's a place for a site that skewers pomposity and hypocrisy with satire, sarcasm and wit. I think this site fills that final category. And let's us bash Scandi's.

175

Oh.  And go Longhorns.

 

and yes, we may continue to goof on Aggies forever.  There is a disturbing confluence of similarity between Aggies and Snowbillies.  I know for a fact all the Texas A&M dorm cafeterias serve lutefisk.

176 Before you spout off on a charged issue, ask yourself if someone reading this at work might be in trouble with Human Resources for reading the site if a coworker happened to read your comment.

So as long as we're spouting off on non-charged issues, we can put in all the stuff we want that would get a coworker in trouble with HR?  AWESOME!!!1!!!

177 No bourbon, Sean, just Valu-Rite. Why is it we have to explain the most basic concepts over and over again to tankers/scandis?

178 ricpic, let me explain something to you which is obvious to the rest of us: 

You are a fucking racist.  The reason you are so angry that racist speech is forbidden is that that is just about the only speech you wish to engage in.

When someone on the rightwing, who is generally antipathetic to PC cries of racism and etc. tells you you're a racist:  Guess what, dude.  You're a fucking racist.

You can either stop being a racist (doubtful) or at least be polite enough to hide it so the rest of us don't have to wallow in it every fucking day.

I am sick to death of you, your over-the-line comments and then, after a warning, your cutesy let-me-just-barely-stay-within-the-line baiting, and now your pussy-shit whining about how you can't spout off about darkies anymore like you'd like to.

Well, fuck you.  Consider this a provocation in the hopes you will give me a reason right now to fucking ban you.

As a friend of mine said:  "I'd like to be on the anti-amnesty side but sometimes I wade into your comments and Jesus... some people just seem to really hate spics.  And I don't want to be on that side."

Not only is your racism embarrassing to me it's counterproductive to the right generally.

Go fucking whine somewhere else, bitch. 

I've goddamned had it with you.

179 To ask the question, Brad, is to answer it.

180 Maybe its time for closed commenting? I know its not a perfect system, but at least it helps limiting this kind of stuff.

181 Is that clear, ricpic?

Here's my well-considered response to your complaint:

GO

FUCK

YOURSELF

SIDEWAYS

AND

DIE

IN 

A

FIRE.

Fucking stupid cunt.  You think that when you, "ricpic," annoymous racist troll on the internet, steps out of line, that's you, "ricpic," who gets muddied with that?

No, asshole.  It's *me.*  And the only reason your comments are being read at all is because they're on a popular site that *I* maintain.

If you want "Free Speech," START YOUR OWN BLOG AND ENJOY YOUR TEN FUCKING ACCIDENTAL GOOGLE-SEARCH READERS PER DAY.  Or spend four years building up readership.

You have a right to free speech.  You do not have the right to any old stage you happen to want to stand upon.  Get this straight, fucker:  This is my stage when all is said and done.  If I don't like the act, if I don't like the performance, you're off the stage.

You feelin' me, dog?

182 Was I clear with that?  I'm not really sure if I actually expressed myself in a clear enough manner.

183

Again, AR, that's what I'm hoping Ace can avoid. This is one of the few places left for open comments.

Sean,

Don't tell anyone, but I actually had good experiences with the tankers. In GW1, D-1/37 joined my TF (7-6IN) and my platoon sliced to Delta. They treated us better than our own Bn. 1SG made sure we ate first and showed genuine concern for our well being. That (as I'm sure you know) is not generally how attatchments are treated.

One story stands out. While in the attack position, waiting to go, we were hacking at fighting positions and getting about 6inches down. A SEE showed up to dig latrines. He started to take off and the CO and 1SG told him to go back and dig our positions. He said he couldn't, just had orders to dig latrines and get the heck out of there. CO called a tank and told him to shoot the SEE if he tried to leave. That's looking out for your crunchies.

184

The Terrorits have won.

 

 

 

 

 

185 As a friend of mine said:  "I'd like to be on the anti-amnesty side but sometimes I wade into your comments and Jesus... some people just seem to really hate spics.  And I don't want to be on that side."

Uh, I have problems with the above. Though I remember someone recently making a comment that seemed either a bad joke or unacceptably harsh as to  Haitian  immigrants (who were probably here legally), I resent the people who call anyone who strongly opposes amnesty as racist. Obviously, the biggest problem is with illegal aliens from Mexico and Central America but I don't feel demanding that we close the border with Mexico and deporting illegal aliens is racist. But, that slur gets tossed out time and time again. 

186

Ace, using all caps? he fucking means it. 

187 #153 XBradTC

Well, its a solution so he doesn't have to do that. You make some long time commenters you trust who are online 24/7 (as many of us are) moderators if want to police the thing and np.

For the record, we've never deleted anything and never banned anyone. I think one time someone posted some copyrighted pics and the owner was so anal he regged and saw them and made us delete them, but that's about it.

Plus, you can have a lot better conversation about a topic in an actual forum, and the members set the agenda on what they want to talk about. It works well for us, anyway and its a good permanent solution. Plus it makes more of a community and you don't clog up your posts with long comments trails. Friggin' blogs like LGF take a long time to load because they try to cram forum-type bells and whistles onto blog comments. Just better to go ahead and have a forum, imho.

dwf forum

188

Was I clear with that?  I'm not really sure if I actually expressed myself in a clear enough manner.

 

Got a little lost with the "feeling" gerund.

 

189

Ace, I think at this point, and for some reason more so in this political season, it's time for registration. 

In order to stand on principle, you have to have someone as an antagonist who is also standing on principle and acts in good faith.  If there's anything this week demonstrated it is you don't have that.  No rationality means no rational arguments.

Brad, I love crunchies.  The keep the RPGs from getting too close.  (Don't tell anyone I said that)

190 Just fucking ban him already, you passive-aggressive Ewok you.

191 I get to set the rating for this blog.  The rating is R, not X.

R for language and sex-talk, not X for porn links or truly graphic sexual storytelling.

R for un-PC arguments and ideas, but not X for truly inflammatory or outright racist shit.

The rating is R.  That is the fucking rating.  That is the rating that most people are comfortable with (and many are not even comfortable with that -- I am limited in audience due to the R rating). 

An X rating is a killer, and this blog is not going to be X rated just because some malcontents that got booted off LGF for racism think it *should* be.

Learn it, respect it, live it.

I am past *asking* people.  Now I am legitimately INFURIATED.  Fuck you if you think I should bend to your fucking whims. 

The banhammer comes out hard today.  I've goddamned had it.  I don't care if I lose half of my goddamned readers, I have a goddamned right to set the tone of a goddamned blog I have spent four fucking years of my life building up to something that's actually getting notice.

192 DrewM,

A great deal of the freedom in freedom of speech is expressed in anger and/or in humor that offends. In fact it can only be expressed truly effectively in those ways.

For example: would you ban posts in negro dialect or yinglish (yiddidh/english) dialect because those posts might offend some blacks or Jews?

Would you ban posts posted in white hot anger about our moderate Muslim friends who don't lift a finger to protest their more, er...motivated brethren, because in the midst of the perfectly legitimate anger there might be an untoward word?

Pretty soon you have people stifling the truth, their hard learned truth, because it might offend.

Of course I'm not talking about posts that call for hurting anyone physically! But offending someone somewhere? It isn't meaningful freedom of speech unless it does offend someone somewhere.

193 GRC, I think that was the commenter's point - there is a big difference between being anti-amnesty and anti-illegal immigration and being racist.  The problem is, an anti-amnesty post goes up, people start screaming about how they can't stand Hispanics.  Not everyone does, by any means, but non-racist people tend to shy away from that kind of hostility and language, stop commenting, or even stop visiting the site altogether, which shifts the makeup of the site commenters. 

194 Just fucking ban him already, you passive-aggressive Ewok you.

D'ya see what happened there, people? I tell you that he's nice, he's a chill guy, a pussycat. And then you gotta wake the freakin' giant.

195

Brad, I love crunchies.  The keep the RPGs from getting too close.  (Don't tell anyone I said that)

The punchline is usually "They keep the tracks greased".

196
Uh, I have problems with the above. Though I remember someone recently making a comment that seemed either a bad joke or unacceptably harsh as to  Haitian  immigrants (who were probably here legally), I resent the people who call anyone who strongly opposes amnesty as racist. Obviously, the biggest problem is with illegal aliens from Mexico and Central America but I don't feel demanding that we close the border with Mexico and deporting illegal aliens is racist. But, that slur gets tossed out time and time again.

You're missing the point dude. Ace and mine's mutual friend was on the secure borders/anti-amnesty side, but felt hesitant to express himself because some of the commenters here were plainly staking out an anti-amnesty position based on racism, rather than rational public policy, economics, respect for rule of law, etc. He agreed with their policy position, but didn't want to be associated with folks who arrived at it because they are haters.

I completely agree it's possible to be anti-amnesty/secure borders for very good reasons - thats the camp I'm in. And I agree the accusation of racism solely because of this position is tiresome.

197
Why I never like registration: The forums I belong to (lgf) or only lurk at (HA) both have registration. It seems like posters at both blogs have this weird incestutous vibe about them.  Then again, I already suspect that most of your grandfathers are really your fathers, anyway.

198

I picture an ewok slowly transforming into Lou Ferrigno...

199 "would you ban posts in negro dialect or yinglish (yiddidh/english) dialect because those posts might offend some blacks or Jews?"

Just a general question - have you ever actually made a "joke" here that had anyone other than you laughing?

200

I was tryin' to throw you a bone Brad,  Work with me here. 

 

201 Well, apparently I touched Ace where he lives, the desire to be accepted into the big boy club. The truth hurts.

202 ricpic -
Freedom of speech DOESN'T grant you a forum in which to say it.  Ace has set the f'ing rules, why are you pushing it?  You're in his living room, taking a steaming stinky dump on his coffee table and his copies of Playgirl and Cosmo.

I personally hope it doesn't go to registered commenters here.  I prefer the free-for-all aspect of unregistration.   Unfortunately it seems like some people never made it past the maturity of my five-year-old, who knows for the most part when to STFU for his own good - he has the right to say whatever he wants, but he knows there may be consequences, including not getting to hang out with the adults.

203

I got a feeling I'd be banned from ace's place if I were still around.

204 ricpic,

yes, the "Big Boy Club" of non-racist society.  You caught me.

Push it.  Push it.  Please.

205 The fuck is this, Salt-n-Pepa? JUST DO IT. DOOOO IT.

206 Steve:  I'm not missing the point at all. As written the implication is that a reader didn't want to wade through anti "spic" posts. I've never seen more than a couple of  posts directed at latinos that could be labeled racist. I certainly have seen more posts calling people racist who have expressed a legitimate pov.  My god, look at the McCain post. Anyone who expresses hesitation to support McCain is getting pounded.

207 A great deal of the freedom in freedom of speech is expressed in anger and/or in humor that offends. In fact it can only be expressed truly effectively in those ways.

ricpic,

Then go express it while looking in the mirror. There you will find someone who truly cares.

This isn't about you right to say anything you want, just where. It's not slope, slippery or otherwise, just fucking common sense.

Look, I made a mistake by engaging you. I have tried my best to ignore you since you announced you were a racist, I think it's time to go back to that policy.

208

have you ever actually made a "joke" here that had anyone other than you laughing?

oh hell no, not me.  I dream though, I do.

 

 

ricpic, I hope you won't take this wrong or anything, but you're a fucking asshole.

209

Unfortunately it seems like some people never made it past the maturity of my five-year-old...

Spot on, Alice.  Spot on.

210 I'm confused.  Your friend agrees with the anti-amnesty policy but didn't what to be associated with haters here... yet he refers to them as 'spics'?  Am I missing something?

211

Well, apparently I touched Ace where he lives, the desire to be accepted into the big boy club. The truth hurts.

So, to be allowed to join in the little boy club with you he has to put up with rude jerks in his own place? 

 

212 Re #166:

Unfortunately, yes, plenty of Americans think that "freedom of speech" means that one is entitled to use others' property without permission in order to disseminate said speech. You can thank a few decades of socialist indoctrination for that. "Freedom of speech," in the constitutional context, means nothing other than the right to express views free of compulsion from the state. Of course, there are limits where one infringes upon another's rights, such as the "shouting fire in a crowded theater" example. A private entity–such as our esteemed hobo-hunting host–censoring speech distributed via its property is simply exercising its property rights.

213 Maybe I'm being too hasty.  If the hammer gets swung, I'll never get to hear these lovely "Negro dialect jokes."  You know, that's the sort of cutting-ege, "now" humor that made Ace's place popular in the first place.

Aren't we forgetting where we came from, morons?  If ricpic can't let loose with "where am de waddy-melon?", haven't we lost everything worth fighting for?

214 Knemon #140 "The "Kill the Mooslims" shit is coming HERE, and if it's coming as a result of Charles finally imposing discipline at his place,"

D'oh!  Man, that didn't become blazingly obvious until you pointed it out, or I'm retarded, or both, but MAN that clarifies a lot of stuff. 
Hmp.  My nic isn't "Perspicacious Davy Dave" for a reason, I guess.

215 I've seen you post hella racist crap in here, ricpic; and I'd hazard that you're the cause of several of the complaints Ace has received.

Same goes for the anonymous one who went by "notSPECIAL" in the Tupac thread (igcvF), got himself deleted, and who surprise-surprise is also trolling "for free speech" in this thread.

It doesn't take a fucking nuclear-fission psychic technician to do a site:minx.cc on Google.

216

I hate to be a piker, but I'm going to go shopping.

 

For me!

 

 

(which means walk in, buy a blue shirt, walk out.  Beer may come into play)

217

his coffee table and his copies of Playgirl and Cosmo.

 

Spot on, Alice, spot on.

218 wait, what did that fuck post?  NotSpecial?  This douchebag wrote the deleted post?

219 ricpic-

Stop the tedious explanations of free speech. You aren't talking to a bunch of folks that are afraid to express their opinions forcefully. The difference is that you are absolutely predictable in what topics you will address and how  you will express your opinion. Any racially tinged subject is like the fucking Bat Signal to you.

We all know what you are going to say and how you are going to say it. To the point that its a fucking joke, and your handle is shorthand for for stupid racist posters.


tami -

Our friend was using the word spics because he was mimicking the thought process of the some of the people on the anti-amnesty side - the ones that were expressing racism.

guy ritchie -

It's not that he didn't want to wade through the posts. It's that he felt hesitant to express himself publicly because he didn't want to be associated with those who were racists. Like in South Park when some of the characters realized the KKK was on their side of an issue and it made them uncomfortable.

220 Oooh...ok.  nevermind...

221 NotSpecial/Mr. Hand/"VICTIMS,"

Just wanted to let you know I just exercised MY right to free speech by writing Pixy to put your IP into the banned list.

Hey, a man's allowed to write whatever he wants, right?  Well, my need to express myself took the form of adding numbers to a black list.

Hah, hah, hah.  Black list.  GET IT?!!

222 Other than stating that Ace is obviously deeply concerned with his respectability rating I don't know what I've said today that offends the herd of independent minds.

On other days I said offensive things. True things that were offensive. To repeat: the truth ,will offend. That's a given. And the more respectable you aspire to be the more hair trigger your offended trip wire will be.

223

Thank you, Ace.

Where's the Kristen Davis pics?  Get back to work.

224 Wow, DrewM; I'd forgotten about that one. Woo.

Here's another sample of ricpic's wit and wisdom. Thomas Sowell is cursed daily as an Uncle Tom; but that's not enough for Sir Ricpic, the White Knight of AoSHQ. For ricpic, blacks are an alien nation inside this one and can never be trusted by a Real American, no matter how they've lived their lives.

Plenty more where that came from. It's actually harder NOT to find racist comments when poring over the highlights of Ricpic's Minstrel Show.

225 yes, N*****rs must all be hanged, this is a "true thing" that the rest of us are still too cowardly or pussy to confront.

You're among the brave, dude.

God, I wish I could be like you.

226 Filled with hate this ricpic is.  Taken by the Dark Side of the Force he is.

To Degobah send him I will. 

Fix him it will, or fix him it will not.

227

Ricpic, since we don't rise to your exalted standard of discourse and respectability can't you just find some other place to play? 

I hear Justice Scalia is looking for a First Amendment expert as his next clerk.

How can we miss you if you won't fucking leave?

228

 And the more respectable you aspire to be the more hair trigger your offended trip wire will be.

 

That explains it then. You aspire to no degree of repectability.

229 You know Sean, for a half breed Scandi, you're all right.

230 "Respectable?"

I'm wearing SWEATPANTS, for god's sake. I don't even leave the HOUSE all that often.

231 I'm blushing Drew, but you can't tell becaue my exceedingly fair skin is frostbitten.  It always looks that way.

232 Actually Ace I have never ever made any statement calling for physically hurting anyone. And you know it. Why don't you cut the overkill?

233 It's that he felt hesitant to express himself publicly because he didn't want to be associated with those who were racists. Like in South Park when some of the characters realized the KKK was on their side of an issue and it made them uncomfortable.

When you and/or your friend make statements like that you are implying that there are/were a large number of racist posts directed at illegal aliens. I never saw that.

234

It is natural to get furious when you are reminded of the atrocities that have been, and are being, committed by some people in the name of Islam, and the cowardice shown by government officials and others who should be standing up to those people.  And when you are talking among friends who seem to agree with you and share your anger, you will be inclined to burst through the frustration of enforced political correctness and let loose with your nastiest tirade against those who you believe are contributing to the destruction of our society.  All the more if this particular group of friends regularly mocks political correctness and speaks in a coarse and edgy way.  

 
Just the same, folks, this is a FUCKING GREAT BLOG.   It is MY FAVORITE BLOG.  Many nights, it is the ONLY BLOG that I read.  And, oh yeah, it is free.  IT IS A GIFT.  If any of us who share Ace’s political views and appreciate the provocative, intelligent and hilarious style in which he displays them SHIT on that gift, we are less than “morons” – we are fools.  And we don’t deserve this goddamn blog.

- Z

235 re: guy ritchie

Sorry, but I happen to agree with the sentiment that many of the so-called "anti-amnesty" voices here and elsewhere are in fact, racist.

I understand Ace's use of the word "spics"- I do the same thing, in an ironic sense when I make the point that for many of you, "illegal aliens" is a code word for "dirty fucking Mexicans".

I'm not slamming Mexicans, I'm slamming your attitude towards them and translating some weaselwords into their true meaning, without the code.

236 Friggin sockpuppet.  I was "Shep." 

237 ricpic,

no, you didn't make that statement, someone else did.  your "true things" are of a piece with that though.  Basically anyone who's not white is a menace and we are all cowards for not saying what needs to be said and doing what needs to be done to fight this swarthy menace.

238 I must admit, I have waited for this day of confrontation.

I am sick of trying to explain my libertarian philosophy on left-leaning sites and being told in haughty tones that "movement conservatism would not exist if not for racism".

If I ever want to discuss politics with black people over beers or even (it must be a shock to you) have some black friends - maybe even date one - I don't like having to decide whether I ought to hide my status as a conservative, apologise for it, or else waste time in an argument over whether I'm associating with racists. I go to caucuses and in one room, there's a happy bunch of Democrats whooping it up; in the room I'm at, it's full of dour and embittered white men whining about illegal immigrants and Katrina. Over and over again.

I want our room to be fun like their room.

But it won't be fun as long as, day after day, racists and just plain evil trolls keep crawling up from under their bridges to stink up a place like this.

A few times, I might accept as the inadvertent result of drunkenness, cynicism, and personal demons. Hey, intemperate comments happen. But these racists are worse than that: they're cynical against this site. They're constantly tossing bombs in here and making the rest of us scurry around trying to address the damage.

ricpic: I hope you can find it in you to ask yourself, how did I end up like this.

239 219 -
So, what you mean is, ricpic's sin is mostly that he's fucking boring.

240 Posted by: XBradTC at March 29, 2008 02:19 PM (Rr3f1)

Well I wonder if larger blogs can really, legitimately have open comments.. Even beyond the bigot problems, there are or will be spammers and trolls in larger and larger numbers as a site gets more popular.

 Its unfortunate but I very much doubt any popular blog can keep the comments clean without closed comments.

241

Swarthy menace? You mean like half-breed Scandis? Not that there's anything wrong with half-breed Scandis.

242 Don't hold your breath, David.

243 More and more I get the distinct impression that Dr. James T. Watson would be banned from this site. All those inconvenient truths you know.

244 ricpic has a teenager's mentality. Acting like an asshole <> acting like an asshole, it means that he's one of the brave few that are themselves and not kowtowing to the man. By definition anything he does that gets disapproving is TRUE and REAL man.

docweasel -

Fuck off with that bullshit. The vast majority of folks here came by their position on illegal immigration for reasons having nothing to do with racism. This is coming from a white guy who's closest friends are mostly Mexican and was recently asked to join a black fraternity post college social group. The fact that we are confronting a handful of despicable people isn't grounds for your to issue a blanket "Aha I always said your deep down motivations were racist"

245 Here's an inconvenient truth:  You're banned.  Pixy will process it soon enough.

246 Someone earlier mentioned FreeRepublic, and that's a good comparison.  To me, that site got unreadable b/c there is a certain element out there that leaps at the chance to blame everything on Mexicans and Muslims, and it gets old really fast.  And it reflects poorly on our side.  I'm about the least-PC person I know, but I got tired of the unintelligent bashing and stopped reading.

I'd hate to see that creep into AoSHQ.  The non-PC-ness of this blog is its best quality, but it's an intelligent non-PC quality, not shock value crap or knee-jerk blame games.  And if that's me kissing up, whatever, I've enjoyed this site for free for 3+ years and I don't want it going away.

And far be it from a lurker like me to call out another commenter, but when I'm reading comments here I don't want to have to be worried someone might see b/c someone wants to toss around a bunch of racial slurs and it isn't even funny.  That's for you ricpic.

247 "And it reflects poorly on our side. "

The question that nags at me: is it just a minor blemish on "our side," like the remnants of childhood acne around the hairline, or is it a more basic feature, like a busted nose?

248

No, not at all, Fish.  I say hang them.  Because I am a self-loathing Scandi.

Yes, Scandis must all be hanged, this is the "true thing" that the rest of us are still too cowardly or pussy to confront.

Except me, becuase I am counting on the Scots-Irish side of me to save me from the lynching.

So, by all means....continue.

249

AR, as I mentioned , this place is just about it for open comments. And it has only been in the last couple of weeks that Ace has been having problems. Someone mentioned changes at LGF being a possible causal factor. Dunno, gave up on that place years ago. All that hate was burning them up and it was keeping me too warm.

Maybe if we have the night of the long knives here we can get back to some semblance of moronity instead of hatefulness. Someone compared this place once to the local bar where they decompress after work. I like that and would hate to see it become a private club.

 

250 As a going away ricpic, I offer you this quote from Dr. James D. Wilson:

"I can certainly understand why people, reading those words, have reacted in the ways they have," he said.

"To all those who have drawn the inference from my words that Africa, as a continent, is somehow genetically inferior, I can only apologise unreservedly.

"That is not what I meant. More importantly from my point of view, there is no scientific basis for such a belief."

So long asshat.

251 Don't you know that means They got to him TOO, Drew?

Watson - another victim of the Big Boy's Club.

252 Eh, fuck it's James Watson, not Wilson.

253 By the way, if anyone's curious why I'm such a "PC asshole" lately, it's this:

I let this slide for a while.  I hate confronting readers.  Not only do I like my readers (generally) and wish them well, and thank them, and etc., but it's just bad for business to pick fights with your readers.

over the past month I have attempted in the comments -- and some posts -- to gently suggest that some people calm down and ratchet it down.   I have largely avoided calling people out by name, at least until this past week.

I have become increasingly infuriated as my repeated warnings, requests, and pleadings have gone ignored.

Well today was the breaking point.  I don't know how many times some assholes need to be told the same fucking thing, but I don't care to find out.  I'm not interested in doing a scientific experiment to see how many times I have to request that someone stop bringing shame on this site and myself and conservatism generally before they actually do so.

thus, the increasingly angry posts and the calling out of people by name.

Like I said:  I don't care if half of you go.  But I will get some fucking respect paid to my fucking wishes at my own fucking place of business.

254 Goodbye Ace. You were a man till the desire for respectability undid you.

255 "Vote for Obama, he's got the longist schlong." -- Stuff Dr James T. Watson Said, ed. ricpic

256 "You were a man"

My first thought was,
He lied with every breath.

257 Awwww...is ricpic pulling a "you can't fire me, I QUIT!"?

258 Not being a racist prick=a desire for respectability according to ricpic. Um, okay.

And yes, ricpic...I do want fries with that. Make it snappy asshole.

259 Sean...I hope you understand that I am just goofin' on you. Besides, some of my best friends are Scandis. Welcome to AoSHQ and Valu-Rite Central.

260

Real life intrudes, but:

 1. Sean, I'll catch up with you later and we'll swap lies.

2. Ace, just ban away. No warning, if they don't like it, let 'em email you like suplicants.

3.

4. Profit!

 

261 aw, ricpic, I'm not your kind of man?

Are you trying to get on my good side now?

Later days, dude.

262

To me, that site got unreadable b/c there is a certain element out there that leaps at the chance to blame everything on Mexicans and Muslims, and it gets old really fast. 

You're right, and it's why I don't go there anymore either. 

The funny part about the Freepers is they are guilty of the same exact shit they wail on about when it comes to minorities.  They bitch and moan endlessly about how minorities play victim card, then they go and do it.  So much for rough-hewn American individualism.

"Woe was me my construction job was taken by a bunch of illegal immigrants who work for half the wage!"

Who's the victim now? 

Don't like it?  Re-skill yourself into another career.  Don't stand around and whine about it.  Their real problem is too many of those want to sit around and collect $37.50 an hour for a low-skill job with benefits.  Because they won't help themselves when the rules change...they blame it on immigrants.

And I am an enforcement first anti-amnesty type.  But if you don't like the game, change the rules.  All too often the nativist argument runs something like "I shouldn't have to wortk hard.  It's my country."

263 just ban away. No warning, if they don't like it, let 'em email you like suplicants.

Seriously, it would have been great for people to just disappear. You know, like how Bush and Cheney do with liberals.

264 re: 244 steve

Ah, the old "some of my best friends are dirty fucking Mexicans" ploy. I don't know about individuals. Its possible you are not. I'm saying that by and large the "anti-amnesty" Malkinite argument is that Mexicans deserve special attacks and exclusion is that 1. Mexicans commit a lot of crimes (while posting anecdotal news items about illegal immigrant crime 2. Mexicans use a lot of services and cost the community more money than they are worth 3. Mexicans are uneducated and unskilled and unworthy of being Americans 4. go back to Mexico, we don't want your culture here, we don't want your language here, assimilate and "act white" or you dont deserve citizenship.

Maybe not you personally. But taht's the way the argument has been framed. And I call racism. A lot of you say "I love Mexicans my best friend is Mexican I work with Mexicans I love Mexicans, btw, fuck Mexicans, we don't need any more in this country, expel as many as possible and lock the rest out.

The bottom line is, I don't believe the people who make racist arguments against Mexican immigration, then say they aren't Mexicans: face it, live with it, if you try to STEREOTYPE an entire ethnicity by thea few criminals you are a fucking racist, period. You don't like it and you reject it, but you are one anyway, motherfucker.

265 Goodbye Ace. You were a man till the desire for respectability undid you.

Oh my god - the only funny thing ricpic ever said. The put upon tone of a man betrayed by his weak comrades. Comedy.

If it makes you feel better, by your definition Ace was never a man. Because he would have been saying the same shit to you 20 years ago when all he had to lose was a pair of jeans and a ratty spiderman tshirt.

266 doc, I just banned you for general hypocrisy because of your disgusting anti-mormon crap.

And because I'm frankly on a roll here and I just can't stop banning people.

It's too much fucking fun.

Later!

267

You were a man till the desire for respectability undid you.

 

yes, that damnable quest for respectibility.  What this country needs is less emphasis at being respectable.  Because being a real man means having no limits, no standards, and eschewing any 'respectablility'. 

Don't worry, ricpic, I don't consider you respectable at all.  Your manhood is secure.

268 He's gone mad with power!

269

Catch you all later, the wife is demanding I go take pictures of DC cherry blossoms.  Oh God, I miss Boston.

All we had there was dirty water.

270 ricpic,

You do understand that this site is how Ace earns a living, right? Would you find it reasonable to walk into a store a demand that they allow you to urinate all over the merchandise in the name of your constitutional right to express yourself? Because that's what you're doing (did) here.

271 ricpic and docweasle smacked with the Bananator^tm? Best blog day evah!

272 This place was getting too crowded anyway.
Morons have standards you know.
Seriously.

273 docweasel -

See the mocking of the "some of my best friends..." defense against racism only works when the person in question is referring to their Mexican gardener, his Jewish accountant, etc. When, they are referring to non-white employees/servants/etc as "friends".

It doesn't really work when you are talking to someone who's wedding party is non-white, who marries a non-white girl, who's 10 member investment club is mostly non-white, etc...you know, when the person by their actions and choosing of close friends demonstrates that they are not racist haters.

274 Well, thats kind of ridiculous since Im being consistent: Mormons preach racist theology,t hat's my bitch with them. But hey, its your blog do what you want. I've always been a friend to you so I'm kind of surprised. You have a problem with me you could have said so, we've exchanged emails before.

Whatever.

275 It's banned commenters. Soylent Green is made out of banned commenters. They're making our food out of banned commenters.

276 Auctioning off bannings would be a great way to raise some extra money and clean up the blog at the same time.

277 And I am an enforcement first anti-amnesty type.  But if you don't like the game, change the rules.

Don't go! You pushed one of my buttons here.  How does one change the rules, as you put it, to stop the flood of cheap illegal labor into the country thereby driving down wages when the powers that be have made it clear they will never enforce the rules? That is one of the reasons I am so adamant against drivers licenses for illegal aliens because they will drive the wages down for driver/truckers/deliver men.  They can't get hire now because the employers can't insure them with out a license. However, this doesn't explain why the union leaders are so pro illegal immigration in that it hurts their own members.  Again, you say change the rules but we can't even get a presidential candidate that isn't wishy washy about illegal immigration nominated.

278 Wait what's this?  Did Geraldo Weaselio Rivera just get banned?
Race-card dealers AND racists going out the same window on the same day?
I'm liking this!

279 okay doc, I have canceled the ban, but you can play whip-the-mormons on your own site.  I found it offensive myself.

280

"And when you are talking among friends who seem to agree with you"

I think this is part of the problem. You are not among friends, you are talking to  everybody on the internet.  Even if you are screwing around people will take what you say seriously and  keep in mind (I have been terrible about this) that while you are just screwing around other people take it really seriously because it is their job or source of information. What you say spreads everywhere also so if  you are being a troll don't adopt and argue for positions you don't agree with because other people take it seriously.

Ace, I'm sorry if my comments in the first fitna thread came across as offenive or blood thirsty. I don't remember exactly what I said, but they were not meant to be offensive (something like: I wouldn't want to be a muslim in Europe when they drop the multi-culturalism approach and react to the islamists or a muslim who was stuck living in a country taken over by the crazy wing of Islam. People reading this, if you are a muslim, or anybody else for that matter, and you were offended by my comments in the fitna threads I will be happy to clarify them if you want.)

281 Damn! 

282 Auctioning off bannings would be a great way to raise some extra money and clean up the blog at the same time.

HEY!!!

283 I guess that doc creep proved what I was complaining about, that you can't have a legitimate discussion about illegal immigration without some asshole calling you a racist and trying to shut you down. And for your information, you prick, I have never used the phrase dirty mexicans or anything similar ever in my life. However, I have no doubt such phrases regularly rolls off your tongue.

284 okay doc, I have canceled the ban,

Oh, great. He just played you and your fell for it.

285 I guess that doc creep proved what I was complaining about, that you can't have a legitimate discussion about illegal immigration without some asshole calling you a racist and trying to shut you down.

Not with him you can't. If you aren't willing to allow anyone (not just Mexicans) into the US you are a racist according to doc.  It's really amazing to see.

I've done my time in the trenches with him and now that he's not banned (boo!) I look forward to seeing you give it a shot.

286 TESTES 1, 2, THREE?

287

Glad I missed the war. I have always thought of AoSHQ as a big, noisy, co-ed, multi-ethnic frat house. You can bust someone’s chops for any number of reasons but remember that that person also knows where you sleep and with whom.

Years ago I ran one of the earliest pseudo-blogs and had to ban any number of people who simply didn’t understand some basic realities of the internet –like you’re not invisible and every time you visit a web site you leave a trail. (Yes, you can be found!)

 99% of the folks who come here do so because we like the humor and freewheeling style; the 1% who come here to flame or incite a riot will get to meet Ace – and may God have mercy on your worthless souls.

288 If you aren't willing to allow anyone (not just Mexicans) into the US you are a racist according to doc.

Anyone except Mormons, I suppose. I have a friend whose father is black and mother white -- all mormons.  She recently married a man who is also of mixed racial heritage and a mormon. They all attended BYU.

289 doing what needs to be done to fight this swarthy menace.

Posted by: ace at March 29, 2008 03:06 PM (SXBHu)

Does this mean we can't fear brown people anymore?

290 Get a clue Guy!  There ARE no rule-of-law issues!  There ARE no national sovereignty  issues!  There ARE no wage-depression issues!  Racism explains EVERYTHING!  You trying to have a so-called quote-unquote alleged "legitimate discussion" about it ... _{(wait for it)} ... IS RACISM !!! 



Fuck that shit. 
There needs to be a perjorative label for these self-dealing race-card-playing douchebags, and it needs to be shorter and sharper than "self-dealing race-card-playing douchebags." 
Racism itself needs to go the fuck away, and it needs to take this shit with it.

291

I'm beginning to think that a mentioning race is like mentioning Ron Paul.  There's a group of idiots chomping at the bit for the opportunity to spew their crazy talk, and they're furiously searching google for a place to do so that hasn't banned them yet. 

And LGF didn't become P.C.  If banning racists from the use of your property makes you P.C., that must be what I am, since I wouldn't knowingly let a racist tool haul away my garbage.  It's not that I'm a bigot against people with different ideas;  I just don't trust people whose ideology hasn't been processed by their frontal lobes.  I may be something of an idiot who sometimes says stupid shit, but if I wanted to air unreasoned hatred I sure as hell wouldn't do it to strangers on the internet on somebody else's bandwidth dime.

Courage.

 

292 I think "Geraldo" would be a pretty good label for the type of asswipe described above, just like "Moby" is a pretty good label for false-flag-flying troll commenters. 

293 My comments are always intended to reveal the mack-truck ass-gaping contradictions in your "thought," ace.

Praying for muslims, or any human, to be murdered, is not only incendiary, iot's evil.

But, I repeat myself.

294 Guys, in the workplace "we've received complaints" occasionally translates to = "I think you're an asshole and I don't want to work with you"

It's possible that deep down, ace just doesn't like you because you posted "n----rs must be hanged," because he doesn't like people who post "n----rs must be hanged" - not because he's received complaints about it.

295 And erastularius too! 
But mostly I curse my accursed capitalist overlord taskmasters who require me to now leave this place and toil.  I expect y'all will be up to comment #3,293 before I get back. 
Gosh darn it all to heck anyway!

296 Amen, Scott.

276 Andrew- what you are proposing has a name: ostracism. (For the classically impaired - you throw clay potsherds with some asshole's name on 'em into a hat, count the names and then kick out Athens' Least Wanted.)

297 My comments are always intended to reveal the mack-truck ass-gaping contradictions in your "thought," ace.

Ace, apparently the guy who posted as William Jennings Bryan is still pissed at you  for not showing enough tolerance to immigrants and minorities.

(I'm sorry, that still hasn't gotten old for me.)

298 Ow, my ass is gaping!

299 Look here, pustularius: those of us who aren't being banned are well aware that calling for murder is wrong. Your posts were always more about congratulating yourself for refuting Ace's arguments than about doing any actual refuting.

You have nothing to contribute here.

300 O_o....good lord

I haven't commented here in quite a while and now I feel like the parent thats been out of town and come home to a house that has been completely and utterly wrecked and I'm just standing in the doorway saying "What in the hell happened here?!"

Seriously, I noticed the Fitna posts last night and didn't comment because I generally just don't comment a whole bunch, but seeing as Ace actually, for the first time I've ever seen it, pulled something down.....good lord.

Must have been a hell of a night.

301 Oh, Sweet Baby Jesus.

Why can't cool shit attract all this traffic, why does it have to be train-wrecks?

I'm all for the rough-and-tumble, but it's ACE'S BLOG fer cryin' out loud.

And I'm all for the banhammer coming down, especially on people who try to tell Ace how to run it.

302 I vote we blame all of this on Bart.

After that, we post links to war bots and giant boobs.

303 In order to refute ace, all you have to do is read a good newspaper.

The "argument" usually is a self-referential "proof," i.e., "I'm not a muslim, therefore all muslims suck."

And so forth.

304

Damn, I take a night off from AoS and I miss a good hubbub.

Having been reading Ace for several years now, I think I have a pretty good idea where the line is for comments. I think most people do as well, even though Ace's written guidelines are sometimes inconsistent. It is hard to quantify decent behavior and judgement after all.

I've been reading online forums since the mid-80's, and this has been a problem from the earliest days. There's always that 2 - 3% of people who lack judgement and can't sense sense unspoken social boundaries that end up spoiling the atmosphere. Generally they're unable to change their behavior despite warnings and the only long run solution is to ban them. Tolerating their crap just lets them do more harm before their inevitable banning.

305 Yeah, erg, and I'm sure you came with some examples.

306 Ace, I missed all this nonsense, thank heavens. FWIW - you make me proud to be a moron.

307 Ace,

When you get back can you please clarify exactly why you are banning erg?

I mean, is it because he's an idiotic douchebag?
Or because his posts are a monumental waste of everyone's time?
Or perhaps because he brings out the hatin' in all of us?

I'd just like to know.  And I would like to see everyone else's speculation.

308 Hmm, I was around for erg's first few comments and did reply to him -- once.  Anything more than that is just a waste of time. There's a difference between kicking a troll and playing into his hands.  I'm hoping that my comment wasn't considered as one that was hateful.

It's too bad that this place needs a playground monitor sometimes.  For the most part everyone seems to play nicely.  The rules seem pretty simple, though.  If you act like an idiot -- you'll be treated as such. 

Less idiots equals better blog, as far as I'm concerned.  The tone and tenor of the place isn't going to change -- it's better off  without erg and the few dipshits that help him prove his warped views.

309

Except me, becuase I am counting on the Scots-Irish side of me to save me from the lynching.

Are you kidding?  Have you looked at a map?  Scotland and Ireland were the traditional first stops on the viking rape express.  Scots and Irish are mstly scandi by injection.  A thousand years ago they looked like Sicilians, but now it's all red hair and freckles. 

So you've gotta be something like 80-90% lutefisk lapper.

 

310 Fair enough.

I agree about most of what you're saying here on the thread, but do you really want a 'chilling effect' where people are afraid to post? I mean, the line you're drawing seems pretty bright, but then I didn't think I was posting anything across that line but turns out, in your eyes, I was.

I don' t know its just I thought I knew what you were saying, but apparently I didn't. I assure you that any criticisms I made against a particular sect were because I perceived them to be racist. Perception can be different.

This of course doesn't apply in the case of that other guy. I was kind of surprised to be lumped in with him, my entire reason for posting at all is that I am at odds with what I see as acceptance of racism in conservative discourse. And that was my bitch about the subject you were addressing. I won't bring it up again if you disagree, but that was my intent, to point out racism as I saw it.

You have to grant that people can perceive things in different lights.

311 "Your blog fills a void left by the PCification of LGF. I really hope you don't quite go down the road that he chose a few months ago."

Holy flying fuck you dumb son of a bitch...if this blog EVER EVER EVER EVER becomes even REMOTELY like LGF in its comment sections, then I - a person who has been reading Ace since day one, pretty much - am never coming the fuck back here.

That's really it, isn't it?  That's what you evil poisonous assholes are trying to do, aren't you?  Turn this site - which used to have a commentariat that was smart, stupid, irreverent, funny, yet also restrained - into your own personal LGF hatefest.  You worthless assholes have to be stopped.  Stomped.  Banned.  You will not turn Ace Of Spades into LGF. 

I hate you people - the "kill 'em all" types - nearly as much as I hate the terrorists.  Not equally.  Nearly.  So go to hell, if that's how you feel.

Ace -

100% behind the point you're making here.  People used to understand how to carry themselves around here.  But since you've gotten higher profile, this new generation of mooks...they're dragging in some real trash with them.

312 A thousand years ago they looked like Sicilians, but now it's all red hair and freckles.

How dare you!  The red hair goes goes back to the Celts.  It has nothing to do with those filthy Scandis.

313

re:  300 -- I feel the same way.   I've been reading this blog off and on for what I thought was some free-wheeling articles and lots of quick comments.  Wasn't really dwelling on it and then -- WOW, today. 

And Mr. Ace seems really angry, and I totally support him.  The only question being, why'd you let it go on so long?  And while Mr. Ace is  saying what an influential and important blog this is, yet Mr. Ace was aggravated about being disturbed on his night off.  Hmmmm.  Well, ok. 

Why on earth WOULDN'T you be allowed to ban whoever, whenever, whyever?  Please don't ban me, bec. I'm agreeing with you -- only remarking that you wouldn't have this much anger if you had smacked the bad kids in the first place.  No?? 

 

314

Seriously. I stopped by last night and saw all the nastiness. Wrote about it for my blog, but didn't post it. I sat on it for a while because I was pissed off, and I wanted to make sure I wasn't posting something that would start something... or something like that. This afternoon I decided instead to delink AoSHQ quietly later without the posting what I wrote.

Despite the name "Prudie" I'm not a prude. It takes a whole hell of a lot to make me that angry enough to delink a site I much enjoy just because of a few slacker site admins. This isn't the first time I've read something that turned my stomach... something that was left unchallenged by the site admins.

Now, I'm sure Ace woulda missed all 2 or 3 of the clicks my site throws his way each month. But I can't believe that I was the only one who thought of delinking AoSHQ because of the commenters last night. So yeah. Deleting the thread was a wise move. There are probably more like me, who are also mostly lurkers (rarely commenting), who went through the same thought process I did. So I'm not delinking AoSHQ now that Ace has taken such a firm move with the ban hammer.

We're on the same side here; it does none of us credit when our own words give the other side plenty of amunition to use against us.

315 Dear Ace:

 I read you all the time and support whatever you think you want to do with your blog.

 Someday I hope to be a real moron.

Till then, 'afraid to post'??

Yeah, be effing afraid if you're effing out of line. Seems like a reasonable request to me.

316 Ergastularius has always been too stupid to know what the actual, contextual meaning of his own nom de web really is...he's an intellectual nullity.  To expect him to argue in good faith is like expecting a dog to be able to build a watch.

317 Wow...my earlier comment was some angry shit, wasn't it?  I should definitely dial back on the vulgarity.  It's unseemly.

318

is that I am at odds with what I see as acceptance of racism in conservative discourse

 

ah.  no.  You've accused reasonable positions of border enforcement as racist, using extreme commentary examples.  Which I'm sure is part of the reason why ace feels compelled to police this total bullshit.

Dude, my home state has been 30+ percent Hispanic since my white ass showed up.  Most of my fellow Hispanic Texicans have family roots that preceded San Jacinto, many by two centuries.  Ok?  I get it.

 

Stop raining on us.  Thank you.  Good night.

319

A thousand years ago they looked like Sicilians, but now it's all red hair and freckles.

Actually, 3000 years ago the Greeks were reputably blond haired before Persians invaded.

320

Jeff-

I wouldn't worry about that too much- you made your point. This site has been a personal playground for me for a while now, and I've had some truly wonderful encounters with many regular posters on this blog.

I suppose you're right about vulgarity- I don't know that it is such a big deal here, but the most unhinged posters on other sites are usually the first people to dive into strategic-level f-bomb carpeting. But hey- there's a big difference between what you said and the guaranteed invective that happens every time a certain group of posters show up. You're defending a site we all hold dear- they're doing it because they think they're clever because they can use the letters f, u,c, and k consecutively and make the sound.

Moving on, I quit going to LGF because of the lack of restraint by posters and out of embarrassment over the local denizens. This, on the other hand, is almost a home away from home (particularly when I'm on the road working), and I believe it's worth keeping clean.

Lastly, I regard Ace as certainly an online friend (and have had some very nice experiences with him in person), and this is his place of business that he generously shares with us. Does that make me a suck-up? If standing behind my friends (particularly when I think they're right) is sucking up, then I do so proudly.

So ban away, my friend- at least one more regular poster here stands very firmly in your corner.

tmi3rd

321 Jeff,
You need to get back on your meds. Your post was only justifiable by the little voices in your head.

322

Who's bashing the Mormons? I'd like to point out that they are aggresivley prosyltizing recruiting in Africa. In fact, my understanding is that the largets sector of growth in teh LDS is among blacks.

 

323

Brad-

Docweasel has made it very clear that he disapproves of the Mormon faith in many comments in past threads... I don't think he would disagree with that framing of his views. If I'm incorrect doc, please set me straight.

tmi3rd

324

To make sure I'm not misunderstood (because I'm not sure if #317 was aimed at me or was general snark): Like someone wrote some time ago, this is Ace’s dirty, hobo-corpse-strewn living room. And it wouldn't be nearly as fun without the cursing and the anger and the lame jokes  and the bad epic poetry and the vulgarity and the teetering on X-rated feeling. But there is a line and it was crossed last night (and a few other times). I don't want to change the feel of AoSHQ; I'd just like to see less of the nonsense that went on last night.

325 Ace, don't confuse mr nobody with mr. minority.  They're different posters.

326

I'm not stumping for the Mormons, but by their deeds ye shall know them. Their temple is across the street from my church. Good, polite, devout. Every Mormon I've worked or associated with has impressed me with their devotion to their faith, family, and neighbor. There ethics in business were beyond reproach, and were dedicated to hard work.

Their theology may be nuttier than fruitcake, but I don't care. They treat me with respect-they get respect back.

327 I had the opposite experience... I posted at LGF in 2002 when it was little different than any other blog, strayed away from LGF because of what one wag referred to as "LGF's famous commenters", but then signed up when I realised that it was, mostly, cleaning itself up. Or, rather, when Charles got serious about attacking White Nationalist hangers-on like GoV, restricting registration, and flushing the bad guys from his own system. We see it in this forum, wherein we've recently had people comment that they got booted from LGF for saying "fuck islam".

Also one learns to flip past the haters and to concentrate on those commenters with a brain (e.g., the brave and indispensible "zombie"). Plus it's easier to report a butthead now than it used to be.

So is LGF a politically-correct romper room or is it a hate site? I'm so confused! I guess you can't please everyone

328

Damn, I missed the food fight. Anyway, Ace needs to do what he's doing or the blog will go to shit.

There are many creeds, things, and people I am not enamoured of, but would hesitate to publicly broadcast. Guess why? There are aspects of the same I know and respect.

Toss the Stormfront idiots and the faux-libertarian boneheads who will not listen, but DEMAND to be heard. The blog will be better for it.

329 You need to get back on your meds. Your post was only justifiable by the little voices in your head.

The only medication I use is a bottle of Val-U-Rite.  And was emptied out last night, so I'm sober as a priest right now.  Seriously though...your kind is not welcome here.  FreeRepublic, VDare, maybe the Ludwig von Mises institute - that's probably more your speed. 

Ain't no excuse for the sort of shit that drove me away (years and years ago) from LGF.  And reading this thread has made me realize that it's trash like you, with your po-faced BS excuses for straight-out filth & hatred - that drove me away from the comments section of Ace Of Spades, my home away from home, a site I've been reading for somewhere around 6 years now.

So seriously: if there are any voices in my head they're saying one thing, and that's "you're a bigoted tool making excuses for racist backtalk and shitting all over the stoop of my favorite place."

Once more: you will not turn this place into LGF. 

Over. Our. Dead. Bodies.

330 Jeff B, in my opinion you're not out of line at all.

331 RE 325,

I am not Mr. Minority, I thought Ace called me that just to twist my name. I was not involved in any "kill them and their camels" and "screw the spics" threads.


RE327,
There isn't a damn thing wrong with GoV. LGF got to the point where anyone who felt like it was OK to be on the same side of the fight as Vlaams Belang must be a racist to be damned and banned.

Me, I am not ashamed to be white, Christian nor Capitalist. Nor should anyone. If you fear being called racist more than you fear losing what made the USA great, then you are just a foolish sissy.

332 I dropped a couple of dimes into Ace's tip jar as a way of thanking him for swinging the banhammer.  Might not be a bad idea for others to do the same. 

There's more of "us" than there are of "them" on this blog.  Let's make sure they don't keep sullying this place.

[sermon over]

333

A thousand years ago they looked like Sicilians, but now it's all red hair and freckles.

I, um, made that part up.  Sort of a reverse play on True Romance, which I thought was required viewing around here. 

The part about Scots and Irish being scandified via viking rape, however, I'm sticking to.

334 I've only peeked into Stormfront when they  linked up with Sheehan and  friends. I don't remember many of the comments. I visit a fair number of "revisionist" websites, because in reality they are holocaust deniers, aka, nazis, and I hate their fkn guts. Almost all of them, not all, but almost, are extremely insidious in their antisemitism and pissing on the memory of innocent victims.  It's their subtleness that creeps me out.

335 "LGF got to the point where anyone who felt like it was OK to be on the same side of the fight as Vlaams Belang must be a racist to be damned and banned."

Keep. That shit. ELSEwhere.

"Me, I am not ashamed to be white, Christian nor Capitalist. Nor should anyone. If you fear being called racist more than you fear losing what made the USA great,"

What are you babbling about?

336 LGF got to the point where anyone who felt like it was OK to be on the same side of the fight as Vlaams Belang must be a racist to be damned and banned.

Sounds about right to me - let's bring some of that action over to AoS.  I damn you.  Hopefully Ace will ban you. 

337

I'm white, Christian and capitalist (and conservative) and proud of it. However, that in and of itself does not immunize me from criticism of my comments.

I don't define myself by my whiteness. When I think about it, I recognize that I was lucky to be born white.

While being a Christian is central to who I am, that doesn't mean I get  a free pass on bashing people of other faiths (excepts those fucking Lutherans!). If I want to spread my faith to others, I must convince them of its rightness, both by its theology and my actions as a member of that faith.

As a capitalist, well, I try to let the market work. I also try to make money, but also realize that there is an inherent risk of greed overcoming good judgement.

As said above, if the folks on your side of the argument are telling you that you are an asshole, you are pretty much an asshole.

338 Ace, do whatever you think you need to do to keep the place up and running. It beats the hell out of RightWingNews, where the comment threads have gone to poop. BTW, my compliments on the nightgown, keep it classy.

339 Ace, the thread you deleted an this one are mirrors to your own (online) character and you cant even see it or admit it.

You reap what you sow.

I am a myth! A mythipus!!! owowowowowwa!

340 Posted by: Sisyphus at March 29, 2008 07:13 PM (a98RQ)

cocksucker

341

Wow, sisyphus. Thanks for that wonderful suggestion on how to improve this blog. I'm sure Ace's whole worldview will change.

It's all puppies and unicorns from here on out.

Is it so much to ask that we have fun here and be morons, but not cross the line to stupid?

342 waah, ace is mean to me, ima tell on him

343 Is it so much to ask that we have fun here and be morons, but not cross the line to stupid?

I was unaware Ace ever went around calling anybody n----rs and sp--s on this site, but my guess is that's what angers a guy like Sisyphus here most.  It would be more comfortable for him if he could lump Ace with the people he's banning.  What pisses off our friend and the reason he's throwing a hissy fit right now is specifically because he's being forced to draw a distinction between the two.

When arguing with Paulbots earlier, I'd always encounter a certain level of bitter insanity that could be expected--but there was one level of insanity you'd encounter on a site when they could lump together all the people they were arguing with as neo-cons . . . and then . . . there was that "special" level when I or somebody else would tell them we were a libertarians and they would become absolutely enraged.  Arguing with a stereotype that they had already set up for themselves was one thing, but having to come to grips with the fact that people were attacking them who didn't fit their stereotype made their heads literally explode.

FWIW, we actually have attacked O'Reilly for using the comments section to attack the Huffington Post (not that we feel much sympathy for that site) and if you work in a place where saying "cocksucker" is forbidden-I genuinely pity you.

344 You have an odd idea of what constitutes a "hissy fit" but that seems pretty much in line the SOP around here. Use belittling language to ridicule those you disagree with rather than actually respond to their ideas or positions.

Also, who said ace called anyone "n----rs" or "sp--cs"? Setting up strawmen?

Hate attracts hate. That is all. This is a hateful site run by a very smart but very hateful man (at least that is how he appears online). He shouldn't be surprised is all I'm saying.

345

Saying cocksucker at work isn't forbidden, just not career enhancing.

I think you may be right regarding our freind, but truth be told, Ace has been pretty "edgy" sometimes. He can pull it off tho, and the folks getting banhammered were not snarking in good faith.

 

346

Sisyphus, stick to your myth.

 

Fuck off and die.  Really.  Leave AoS and never come back.

 

Here's the funny part.  Not a goddam person will care. Least of all me, but lotsa readers can make themselves care less, watch!  It's fun.

 

Oh, I forgot.   Fuck you very much.

347 Ace does have a tendency to get all Ahab on people - like that weird feud with Wizbang!, I think it was?, about the "sockpuppet" crap a year or two ago - but he's been pretty clear that racism will not fly.

As for a "hateful site" - it seems pretty average, as political blogs go.  Got a little infested recently - that's the point of this thread.

348 Sisyphus, you came in here with a patronizing stick up your ass.  You got all you should have expected.

I've been able to have civil exchanges with Bob Munck.  I've been able to have at least what I think are civil exchanges with Beloved Weaver.

You don't deserve any.

Calling people who say "n----rs should be hanged" cocksuckers doesn't constitute hate in my book.  If it does to you, sorry.

349 haha AD, I got exactly what I expected... thus the fitting blog handle.

Ace calls anyone and everyone he disagrees with cocksuckers and worse. I'm not certain, but I believe I saw him refer to Barack Obama as such.

And I really could care less how much vitriol you respond with, just confirms the thesis that that's all you people have.

350

I generally try not to get nasty to other commenters, or whip out the FYNQ, but there are some folks here that seem determined to recieve that.

Yeah, Knemon, "hateful site" would not describe this place. I don't want my mom reading it, but I don't want to be on  a site calling for a "final solution" either.

351

"Ace calls anyone and everyone he disagrees with cocksuckers and worse."

Posted by: Sisyphus

Read this site for years, have never seen Ace go after anyone just because they disagreed with him, except in a good-natured way. Maybe you should read the blog sometime, instead of just reading about it at Democratic Underground.

352 I left a big real estate company a couple of months ago. I could read the posts, but the network wouldn't let me read the comments.

353 Sisyphus, please rinse the sand from your big girl panties, and then stfu. You suck as a troll, but, you do not suck at being a douche.

354 I'll conduct your asses into shape.  Lay off the ethnic shite.  If Danny Thomas were alive....

355 thus the fitting blog handle.

That you're damned to hell for eternity?

And I really could care less how much vitriol you respond with, just confirms the thesis that that's all you people have.

It's like Erg, I always get a kick out of people trying to claim the high road while acting like five-year olds.  If you don't care about my opinion or the opinions of people who post here, here's an idea -

Don't post here.  Don't have discussion with people who post here.  Run away to your hideouts and bastions of civility and tolerance like the Huffington Post where, I guess, they only wish for the death of political figures and our troops occasionally these days.

See, when you come over here and do the opposite, though, it kinda puts the lie to your claim.

And now, given you've just proclaimed you don't care about my opinion - for some reason you're still going to spend a while here arguing.

There's a way to prove me wrong here Sisyphus.  There's only way:  get lost.

I'll argue civilly with Bob Munck.  I'll argue civilly with Beloved Weaver.  A guy who comes here and acts like a jackass loses any claim to the moral high-road.

Ace calls anyone and everyone he disagrees with cocksuckers and worse.

On one level you don't like people who use sp-- and n----r (I assume).  On the other level, you're pissed at Ace for calling them cocksucker.

I've only seen Ace refer to Obama as that once -- when Obama acted as an apologist for a guy who spouted anti-Semitic rhetoric, said the CIA invented AIDS to kill black people, and that Franklin Roosevelt knew about Pearl Harbor.

But, back to your reasoning -- Ace is supposed to be the hateful guy . . . while those guys deserve the moral high road?  That same idiotic standard follows its way here -- if you spout racism, ya act like a jackass, I'm not going to treat you any more civilly than Ace does.

I've disagreed with Ace before.  I have yet to get called a cocksucker.  There are a few prevailing theories behind this, but the two main ones are: 1.) I didn't use the word "sp--" or "n----r" 2.) I didn't act like I have a stick up my ass.

You do.

cocksucker.

356 If you have a problem with my posts, just delete them instead of editing them like cowards.

what losers.

357 You are loser cowards.

Me?  A brave anonymous internet troll with such a full and rich life that I spend all my time acting like a 3 year old on a blog where I've been repeatedly banned.

358 Free speech are speeches that most people doesn't like. That's what make a democracy and the USA great.

I will leave it at that.

359

I hope what I posted wasn't a problem.

The people screaming "free speech" don't have any idea what the concept means.

 

It means jack booted thugs from the government aren't going to come busting into your house for calling George Bush a "dick." It doesn't mean you can walk into another man's house and shit on his dining room table.

 

This is Ace's house. He gets to set the rules, because he's the one who lives with the consequences.

 

Psst...Ace...I'll take the 50 bucks in my paypal account...

360 Sissy: The host edited your bilge because it was calling for disrupting Ace's business. As you know VERY well.

361 While you are correct douger, it is one of the fundamental principle of Western Civilization. I dislike liberals but they have the same rights as I do and can speak whatever on their minds. I won't shut them up but will belittle them and point out their hypocrisy.

362

While you are correct douger, it is one of the fundamental principle of Western Civilization. I dislike liberals but they have the same rights as I do and can speak whatever on their minds. I won't shut them up but will belittle them and point out their hypocrisy.

 

True dat. But that's called "discussion." But what happened here last night was reduced to a general frothing at the mouth befitting of, well, muslims.

363 Wow, I must be a powerful person.

David, you deleted a lot more than the short sentence where I wondered what BillO would think of this site given his public excoriation of Arianna Huffington.

The reaction here is pretty telling. I must have hit some nerves. But know one will no what I said because you are liars and cowards.

BTW, I've never been banned from this blog, or any others, but you can go ahead and think that if it makes you feel better. You guys are pretty good at making shit up. Also go ahead and ban me. Not that there is any need. This place is beyond lame.

Go back to your nasty, hateful little circle jerk, I won't eavesdrop anymore - it's a pretty sickening spectacle.

364

I won't eavesdrop anymore

Promises promises.

365

We're still allowed to write hateful things about Michael, aren't we?

366
I'm glad Ace finally addressed this problem. I've been hoping for a long time that he would do so. I'd just about given up on this blog for all the reasons Ace cites. I couldn't tell whether Ace approved of what was going on. Glad to know this wasn't, isn't, the case. Maybe bbeck will return.

367

 But know one will no what I said because you are liars and cowards.

 

 

Apparently I now know that command of the English language is not one of your better skills. You can reach me at my email, noonecaresaboutyouinreallife@doucheburger.com. Go wipe your tears or I'll send my head over to heckle you.

368

Uh, did I miss something? When did David get the keys to the blog? If someone edited Syssypants, I dont' think it was hime.

 

I could be wrong of course.

369

Go back to your nasty, hateful little circle jerk, I won't eavesdrop anymore - it's a pretty sickening spectacle. Syswhateverthefuckmynameis.

Uh, the whole point of this thread was that there was too much hate creepin' in the blog and Ace and a lot of the old timers were getting sick of it.

So our new friend here decides to come in here and stir up shit and then whine about it. As I said, what a wonderful suggestion for improving this place.

You know, Sys, if you had come in and said that your problem with this blog wasn't just the commenters, but that in your opinion Ace goes to far, you might have made some headway. Maybe even make Ace think a little. Now, not so much.

370 #323 tmi3rd

As an unfortunate result of this ban rampage, I don't guess Ace wants any discussion of my views, to defend them or explain them, so I can't really answer.

Suffice to say I'm against racism and bigotry. I don't think its bigotry to speak out against racist organizations. The fact that people disagree about what constitutes a racist organization can cause a banning, apparently.

I don't think I used any extreme or unfair language and I've always been consistent and make a cogent argument, and provide links and context.

 I have personal reasons for being sensitive about the illegal immigration issue and also what I consider bigoted cults and sects. I'm not going to reveal personal info about myself, my relatives or my friends here, but it involves all of them as well.

I'm a little confused by the ban on even discussing it, but its Ace's site so I'm not going to question it or go into it anymore. If you want more on my views (and the views of a couple other writers who share the blog) see our blog. That's about all I can say about it.

371 One that is I find rather ironic about people who want to flick shit at moderate Muslims for not "speaking out" is that they in no way deny just how viscious and murderous the radical variety are.

These people obviously scared the shit out of LiveLeak. How do you think you would feel if you lived amongst them, and they knew where you live and who your family is?

Bunch of internet tough-guys the lot of ya...

372 Ok, I'll take the bait one last time - althought I'm pretty sure I am being baited.

You know, Sys, if you had come in and said that your problem with this blog wasn't just the commenters, but that in your opinion Ace goes to far, you might have made some headway. Maybe even make Ace think a little. Now, not so much.

That's exactly what I did say. And if my post hadn't been deleted/edited, that would be apparent. I made my comments directly to Ace and blamed him fully. I didn't talk about the commenters at all, and actually didn't see the 'fitna' post that had been deleted. I said that ace shouldn't be suprised that he attracts a lot of hateful shit because that's the example he sets. And that his own posts and comments in this very thread don't pass an "HR/coworker test". And you are being dishonest, because you know that's what I was saying.

And here I am engaging again in a sisyphean effort to say something in a place were your words are twisted, edited and deleted. So futile.

So I'm done... I'm going to bed. I've got 18 holes to play tomorrow morning and that's one hell of a lot more important than hanging around this place.

373

Sys,

 

Nope. Not baiting you. I didn't have  a particular heartache with what you said to Ace. My point is you came in on  an emotionallly charged thread where people have been telling Ace what he can and cannot have on his blog. Your first post was pretty hot under the collar and started with condemning our host. How much progress did you think that was going to get you? My honest opinion is that you could have come here and told Ace that you thought he was the true instigator - but you would have had to  take a very different tone to do so.

Have a drink at the 19th hole for me.

374 re: d's crack about our site only getting accidental hits:
www.docweasel.com
Saturday Mar 29, 2008 Summary: Total page hits: 596,942
Total Bytes Sent: 18,274,830,698
Number of Pages summarized: 6120
Number of days spanned: 27

You do the math. That's over 20k page hits a day with about
5k unique visitors a day. That's not Drudge Report numbers
but its not MyLittleVanitySite.com numbers either.

Of course, we've been around since 1997 and have about 10k
pages of content so that helps, but its not a ghost town,
believe me, we have the bandwidth bills to prove it.

If anyone thinks I'm pulling these figures out of my ass,
email me and I'll link you to our servers stat compiler,
which is the ONLY accurate way to count page hits and
uniques,fuck Alexa, fuck Sitemeter or TruthLaidBear.
The server knows how many pages have been accessed and
it doesn't lie.

375 I think Sisyphus just didn't pay attention to his Greek mythology and picked the wrong name.  Narcissus is the sibilant name he was shooting for.

As to the topic of the thread, I'm a long-time reader and only a recent commenter.  I try not to crap on the rugs and don't have any sympathy for those who do.  Seems simple enough for even morons to understand.

376 Can't Dick Cheney fix this?

Hello?

377 Obviously not, or you'd have been gone hours earlier. 
Instead you kept on coming back to proclaim how unimportant it all is to you. 
That and your well-cultivated hatred for us "haters" are the hallmarks of the total phony you are.
And I'm just posting this to cheat you out of having the last word.  I'm small, that way.

(dismissive snort)!

378 Oh now gosh darn it all to heck!  My curt reply was in reply to #375, not #376, but of course my timing hasn't stopped sucking yet.
Bah!

379 oooooOOOOOOOoooo....
"My curt reply was in reply to #375 372, not #376"

pant pant wheeze did I hit it this time?

380

It may or may not be a waste of time, but is Sys has a problem with Ace, well, here's the place to vent it. But as I said, coming in and going hostile right from the git go is probably not gonna make a lot of progress. If you come in and tell Ace (or whoever) your concerns in a reasonable tone, you might just get a reasonable answer.

I think Sys is wrong. Doesn't mean I have to go Duke Nuk'em on him right away. I think Sys went a little ballistic right off the bat, and the heated replies supported his preconceptions.

381 Brad? Charybdis? 
Are you telling me Sys isn't Erg under another hoity-toity classical nom du comment? 
Because he sure gives off the same smarmy trolly vibe.

382 I didn't see him blame Bush for the quagmire in Iraq. I'm a moron, but think there might be hope for Sys to come over from the Dark Side.

383 Nearly four hundred stinkin' comments and we don't know if everyone's wearing shirts yet.

Ace, ISTR the thing that made NR and Buckley back in the day was banninating the Birchers.  Maybe the only way to be listened to is to exclude when it's needed.

384 Posted by: Stoop Davy Dave at March 30, 2008 12:23 AM (bYXzv)

Nah, say what you will about him, there's no way he's Erg.

For him to be Erg, he'd have to make historical analogies way off the mark and then refuse to admit it when called on them.

He also apparently followed through here and actually left the thread - no chance in hell he's Erg.

385 Oh, and, Kemperman - re: Tarheels - I got scared for a while tonight, but, as the fellow raps:

I thought I told you that we won't stop!

386 Dude. You pussy.

Seriously. You write - and encourage - the vilest, pornographic crap all damn day long. You call it a "lifestyle."

But when people watch Fitna and reach the obvious conclusion (10,000+ Islamic terrorist attacks since 9/11 ???) - you lay down the ban hammer.

The real Ace would mock you endlessly, dude. This is a monument to the rankest hypocrisy.

387 Holy fucking shit, y'all. There are more serious issues at work here than I can possibly make an off the cuff joke about before I get back to playing Tetris.

Ace's failure to update the award banners, the confusion of some racists that there's a difference between race war and ideological war, the continuing Scandi threat, the fact a lot of people seem to like pissing in Ace's sandbox now....

Look, if I say I've been to Iraq twice, met a shitload of Muslims, and admit that 75 percent of them are useless and probably anti-American at heart, it's not a racial observation. It's just the way things are and wishing won't change it.


But if we go to registered commenting, how the hell am I supposed to sock-puppet Tom and all the other whiny homo moonbats we get around here?

388 Well, this comment thread is worthy of LGF, in that it's approaching 400 comments. Unlike that site, however, this thread is worth reading to the end.

I've been a daily visitor to AOS for over 4 years, have posted many comments, given Ace some email tips, and I consider myself a full-fledged "moron". What I love about this place is the semi-insane brand of humor that Ace has, the group of regular commenters who usually are very clever, and the fact that sock-puppeting (for comedic purposes only) is not only tolerated, but encouraged.  Many of the LOL's that this site (and this site alone) has given me are absurd comments from absurd sock-puppets. (The post '06 election "Thanks, Nancy!" thread being exhibit A). I'd hate to see that go away because racist newbies are screwing up the works.

 I understand that progress must pro-gress, however. I'd hope that before Ace gives in and goes to rigid ID's and registration, he'd give a few trusted regulars the ability to drop a ban-hammer, or at least a reviewable suspension, on the worst comments, when he's not around. But whichever direction Ace goes, he's the boss.

389

Dear Ace,

re-post what these guys said because a lot of us missed it.  I want to know if you're pussying-out (like I know you are) when the chips are down.

there's a lot on this site that would upset people at work (like naked girls, etc) that you warn us about.  |Why are you all of a suudun worrying about us workers getting in trouble over some text??????

You're gonna fold like the rest in the end just Like Rush Limbaugh did in the late 80's

This site IS a business....I just didn't know it was all the same as the MSM in the end

 

390 "The problem is, an anti-amnesty post goes up, people start screaming about how they can't stand Hispanics."

Not that I remember, no.  IIRC there were a few boneheads, who were quickly shouted down by the moron horde.

"For example: would you ban posts in negro dialect or yinglish (yiddidh/english) dialect because those posts might offend some blacks or Jews?"

Translation:  "BAN ME.  BAN ME NOW."

"Look, I made a mistake by engaging you. I have tried my best to ignore you since you announced you were a racist, I think it's time to go back to that policy."

Holy crap.  Looks like I picked a really bad thread to skip back then...

"I was kind of surprised to be lumped in with him, my entire reason for posting at all is that I am at odds with what I see as acceptance of racism in conservative discourse."

You and your magic cabanaboy collective (and how the fuck do you square that with using "I" anyway?) do two things here:  (1) spray accusations of "racist" wildly into the crowd, (2) make anti-Mormon slurs.  You should have been banned weeks if not months ago.

"Well, this comment thread is worthy of LGF, in that it's approaching 400 comments."

Yeah, that's the real reason people stop reading comments there.  What kind of person has the time to go through thousands and thousands of comments every day?  Answer that and you figure out why I have a first-day commenter registration there that I never, ever use.

Unfortunately, this also suggests that at current traffic growth, moron HQ is getting close to imploding as a comment site from its own popularity.  Ban hammer or no.

391

why isn't FITNA posted at this website?

Ace talks the talk but won't walk the walk.

He's not a soldier

392 Free speech is irrelevant -- read your Constitution. Ace is not Congress, and he is perfectly within his rights to dictate what we may or may not say on his blog.

Wait. Ace. Congress. Now, there's an idea ...

393

>there was some ugly hate in there.

Is there another kind?

394

Shania Twain covered "Half Breed" very early in her career.

Just sayin.

395

Gawd, I sure missed a good old fashioned knock-down-drag-out brouhaha. Damn, I hate when that happens. I don't know what prompted Ace to ban erg or close the thread, but based on the comments here, I can only surmise that he threw a large turd in the punchbowl and spewed his usual rant about anti muslim/jihad/terrorist/Islamofascist extremism as 'racist'.

Just a note to Ace: This site is not known for demur subject matter.  Whenever I see the posts (READ: soft porn) about celebrity bimbos and their various "assets", I immediately skip to the next news item.  As a female, I prefer celebrity male bimbos and their "assets". Just sayin'.

Anyway, just two comments I'd like to respond to:

"I hate you people - the "kill 'em all" types - nearly as much as I hate the terrorists.  Not equally.  Nearly.  So go to hell, if that's how you feel.

Posted by: Jeff B. at March 29, 2008 05:13 PM (bXLu6)"

And:

"Praying for muslims, or any human, to be murdered, is not only incendiary, iot's evil.

But, I repeat myself.

Posted by: ergastularius at March 29, 2008 04:12 PM (MGisz)"

Well Jeff, consign me to hell.  Scuse me, but this former Soldier and Iraq War vet has every right to have a 'kill 'em all' atittude toward Islamic scumbags and their terrorist simp-supporters, who practice a religion which at its very core, is a brutal, violent, theocracy.

The war against the West was declared by Mohammad in the 7th Century, and modern day Ottoman wannabes are carrying out his wishes.

Backing up justified anger with appropriate annihilation is my idea of a real dedicated war against Islamofascist swine, who incidently, aren't as prone to the sensitivities of 'Jeff B.".

ergastularius,

I wish for Bin Laden's slow, painfull, excruciating death.

Call me evil.

396

OK i read pretty deep into this thread before it got repetitive.

Free speech can't be infringed by GOV'T.

AoS is not the GOV'T.

His blog, he can run it as he pleases. You don't like that, start your own.

Not. Rocket. Science.

And if there is going to registration, pls gimme a heads up _ I sleep days and wouldn't want to miss out.

397 This might get me in trouble with a few of you, including the people who run this blog, but for anybody who thinks registration would solve this, I have two words: Hot Air.

I read that site on a regular basis.  The comments section?  Not so much.  It's very difficult to get on that site. Ethnic slurs are, of course, not tolerated.  "Kill all blacks, Muslims, etc." isn't what you'd expect to find or would find when entering the comments.  However, some of the best remedies to an over-the-line commenter are other commenters and the scenario where that best plays out is with open comments.  People will post in response who don't regularly post. People will have more freedom to hit back (they won't worry about losing their posting status).  You'll get at least a couple people who will practically feel an obligation to do it, because that's the only way the problem is going to be solved.

Whether it's a case of Paulbots or whatever, their seems to be a propensity of people there to go near the line, but not over it, never really get fully swatted down, and wind up swamping the place.

----

Trolls:  the definition of a hate site is not any site that makes fun of your side.  Feel free to elaborate for me here, but I really don't get the impression your definition is any more nuanced than that.

398

I don't think registration is the best way to deal with it, and I don't mind policing the threads (I didn't mind last night, did I?)

docweasel, I don't recall a significant number of comments in Anti-anmesty thread but I am sure knowing the readership they would have been shouted down.  I do recall you equating anti-amnesty with racism and bigotry against Hispanics, which is a charge directed at me.  It is unwarranted.  I've lived in a state that has had a 30% Hispanic population all my friggin life, most of whom have family roots that precede Santa Anna, I get that, ok?  It's my home and it's their home too.  Ours even.

399 Yeah, IIRC, docweasel insinuated I was a racist over the anti-Illegal Imm. thing too. It's fucking infuriating. Like being wrongly accused of stealing, or some other crime. One can't help but see red, but I calmed myself down instead of rising to his inflammatory bait.
If he knew me he'd never say such a thing about me. I believe his personal history is what's driving his position, to the point where his emotions have fatally impaired his listening skills. He merely brands everyone a hater, and every argument a racist cover, and moves on.

Actually, that's not just my belief. It's transparently obvious to everybody who has ever tried to engage him on it. It is disheartening to see this behavior in someone who has otherwise always been a real pleasure to read, but I guess we all have our hot button issues in one area or another. Don't think he should be banned.

Of course, I don't remember his anti-Mormon stuff, so maybe I just shouldn't speak to that part.

Also, to Jeff B at comment #311:

That's really it, isn't it?  That's what you evil poisonous assholes are trying to do, aren't you?  Turn this site - which used to have a commentariat that was smart, stupid, irreverent, funny, yet also restrained - into your own personal LGF hatefest.  You worthless assholes have to be stopped.  Stomped.  Banned.  You will not turn Ace Of Spades into LGF. 

Is that what's been going on around here? I knew we had some new commenters that I didn't like; knew that the comments sections were not as much fun to be in anymore.

Anyway. Glad Ace posted this, and the support of the readers is really heartwarming. It was high time to get this out in the open.

400 steve,

I'm not a soldier?  Um, no of course I'm not.  Are you?  I never confused spouting off on the internet as soldiering; have you made that mistake, buddy?

I don't know what you think can be accomplished "soldiering" on the internet in a manner that might provide catharsis for yourself but which persuades no one and in fact loses potential allies.

Even if you think this is the right way to talk about charged issues, I hope you're not so deluded as to think it flies with most people at this time.

401 I got too mad yesterday and flew off the handle and I apologize generally for that.

A few points tho:

What pushed me from dismay to anger was being ignored, no matter how many times I suggested people get a handle on their anger and watch not just what they were saying it but how they were saying it.  This was no an unreasonable request and I have made it now too many times.

I hope people will stop taking it as a polite request because it isn't anymore.  If I come into a thread and tell everyone to ratchet it down, it had better be ratcheted down or I'm banning or at least suspending.

It's not like I had a dog in that fight.  I was not a participant in the argument.  I wasn't using my position as site-master to shut down my opponents.  I was getting complaints at the tenor of the thread, and I just came in to say "Guys, let's watch our mouths here." 

Please do not ignore such a warning in the future.  I do not make them lightly.  When I say you're getting out of hand, I mean you're getting out of hand.  I don't name people because I don't want to call specific people out and add a personal dimension to it (you can see the additional anger the personal dimension adds in this thread).  But just because I haven't named you don't assume that you're fine and I mean *other* people.

402 P,

Dude. You pussy.

Seriously. You write - and encourage - the vilest, pornographic crap all damn day long. You call it a "lifestyle."

But when people watch Fitna and reach the obvious conclusion (10,000+ Islamic terrorist attacks since 9/11 ???) - you lay down the ban hammer.

The real Ace would mock you endlessly, dude. This is a monument to the rankest hypocrisy.

So why are you here?  You hate the "vilest, pornographic crap" I post "all damn day long."  So you're here for the rich, savory racism alone?

Well, okay.  It's not a good blog for you.  Change the channel. 

I'm not writing for any particular person (and certainly NOT you, "P").  I am writing for thousands of people and attempting to find the right mix of humor, social stuff, and politics and the right tone that is somewhat acceptable or even attractive to the greatest mass of that audience. 

If my attempts to find that sweet center don't satisfy you, go somewhere else.  What the fuck else can I say? 

403 ugh.  Meant to say a significant number of anti-Hispanic comments above, not just comments

404 my attempts to find that sweet center

But I don't have a bunk.

405 Ace has a different hash mark. Did you come home last night, Ace?

406 nope... hanging out in the country, doing country-type things... playing computer games and watching movies.

407 Brad #382 "I didn't see him blame Bush for the quagmire in Iraq"

Well, okay, there IS that.

AD #384 " For him to be Erg, he'd have to make historical analogies way off the mark and then refuse to admit it when called on them."

Well, okay, there IS that, but maybe he was in a hurry or sump'n.

"He also apparently followed through here and actually left the thread - no chance in hell he's Erg."

Well, okay, there IS that, but maybe the library's closed or sump'n.
Either way, I'm betting "P" turns out to be "Steve" before I read comments #s 385 ~ 406.

408 Hmp.  Never did find out.  But I hope they're both banned.  I'm small that way, too.

409 Dave, lauraw, Brad and whoever else: Please link me to where I accused any of you directly of being racists. In every post on our blog, or every comment I've ever made, I say SOME of the debate is racist and biased against Hispanics, and cheap shot points like posting when an individual commits a crime, or smearing an entire ethnicity as being lazy, uneducated or criminal, or insisting on your own personal standard of "assimilation"= the people IN THIS VERY THREAD who are getting all pissed off at me immediately assumed I meant them when I mentioned no one by name. The only person I mentioned obliquely was the "Malkinite" wing, becasue Malkin's stock in trade is to post negative articles about Hispanics with the intimations that "there they go again" and seeking to tar them all with the same brush.

I can get resentful as you guys and pushback when I get branded as unfairly attacking people I never attacked. Then you get all high and mighty with me about how unreasonable I am when I never did or typed any such thing. I've exchanged quite pleasant emails with both Dave and lauraw (who offered to TipJar me when I was getting monster hits over the Bobby Calvan thing, which I appreciated and thanked her for, but respectfully declined) and I've praised Dave's work privately several times. I would no more insult you two than my own mother. You are taking my points and applying them to yourselves and then getting mad at me.

Now there is a bit of "if the shoe fits" around here. Ace constantly makes snark about "brown people" which is still quite hilarious after the 10000th time, I admit, but refuses to see how insults, slights, and perceptions are personal. He banned me (for about 10 minutes) over what I considered a well-reasoned argument, other than calling the other guy a motherfucker, but hey, it was used in an ironic sense, just like Ace's "brown people", right right?

There's hypocrisy, too tender feewings and over-reaction on all sides here (outside of total m0rAns like erg and Sisyphus, if those are their real names, which I doubt). Some people need to get off their high horse about accusing other people of being on a high horse. Some people are assuming things never said and taking offense at things they are projecting.

Hell, a great number of people accused me of being bigoted and prejudiced for complaining about racist WHAT I SEE as a theology as racist as Rev. Jeremiah Wright's. Now how the hell do you get off on ranking on what I am sure are his very deeply held convictions that blacks are oppressed in this country and expressing it in forceful language, but if I say a criticize Mormons I'm a hater and a bigot? Where the hell do you get off there? You don't see hypocrisy there?

If you don't you're either willfully obtuse and unreasonable or dishonest. There are obviously a HUGE number of people who totally agree with Rev. Wright and think he is getting a high tech lynching. Its all perception and opinion folks. A _LOT_ of people around here are guilty of hypocrisy and double standards, not just a few.

And I accept any apology that might have been directed at me

410 Best 10 minutes in the history of this blog?

When both ricpic and docweasel were banned.

Good times, good times.

411

Sound like we need another round of denounciations, repudiations, and condemnations.

 

412 Deal.  I denounce, repudiate and condemn Brad for having said he's proud to be white.

413 Ouch, I was thinking more along the lines of denouncing Nice Deb for having a "Flirty, sexy whore" sock puppet on another computer.

414 re: steve:
<i>See the mocking of the "some of my best friends..." defense against racism only works when the person in question is referring to their Mexican gardener, his Jewish accountant, etc. When, they are referring to non-white employees/servants/etc as "friends".

It doesn't really work when you are talking to someone who's wedding party is non-white, who marries a non-white girl, who's 10 member investment club is mostly non-white, etc...you know, when the person by their actions and choosing of close friends demonstrates that they are not racist haters.</i>

Yeah, well bullshit. That's a specious argument. Spike Lee mocked that one  brilliantly in "Bamboozled", where Michael Rappaport's boorish character uses the "n word" to Damon Wayans, the inoculates himself against being racist because he has a black wife and "two beautiful little bi-racial children", then proceeds to go off on an offensive, racist rant.

That doesn't fly. Having friends in a particular ethnicity doesn't mean you are pre-emptively vaccinated against any form of racism (sorry Dave, same with growing up in an area 30% Hispanic: hell, if anything, people who DONT grow up near minorities are less likely to be racist because they have the luxury of never having to deal with anyone but their own race).

There are BLACK people who are racists against their own race, same as self-hating Jews or Italians or Inuits, etc., so saying you have a friend, or a wife, or a brother who is a certain race so that means you can't possible be racist or bigoted is just a very invalid and poor argument.

Sell that one somewhere else. Especially if you DO make patently bigoted comments, then try to play it off with the "some of my best friends"- that don't give you a right.

415 Don't you people realize docweasel is the sole arbiter of what is and isn't permitted?

He's got minority friends, family and invest club members for God's sake! And he's seen at least one Spike Lee movie. Haven't you assholes ever heard of 'absolute moral authority'?

So just shut up or risk incurring his wrath.

416

I think part of the problem with anti-illegal-immigration=racism is that there is such a preponderance of one ethnic group that is so visible. Let's face it. Most of illegal immigration comes from south of our border. Naturally, most of those folks tend to be of Latin, Hispanic, Amerindian ethnicity.

Some folks really do dislike that, and may fairly be branded as racist or at least nativist. Some folks don't have a problem so much with the heritage, but that the failure to assimilate is in essence bringing the culture that they are fleeing. I don't think to brand these folks as racist or nativist is fair. Other folks would have the same problem if the huge numbers of illegals were from Latin America, Europe, Africa, Asia, other parts of North America, or Antartica. You can certainly make an argument against illegal immigration without being racist. And yet, by the actions of a few, the many are branded.

417 Well, that's A-1 snark Drew, but that's not what I said. I never claimed to have moral authority. I only claimed that I have a personal stake in the immigrant wars and a personal emotional connection to it. I make my points. You're free to argue.

Snark is becoming a really lame ass way for people who have absolutely nothing to add to the argument to try to appear above all those who are actually trying to debate the issue. Your snarky comment is worthless, but hey, you're cool thought, right? Too cool to actually take part in the debate, just make wise ass observations. That's troll behavior, not debating an unpopular position, as some idiots around here seem to think.

418 Well I have a personal connection, too, docweasel.  My parents are immigrants.  Many of my friends, including the woman I'm dating, are in INS limbo waiting years for a green card.  I have been called a racist for objecting to others cutting in line in front of my friends, and I resent it.

You didn't do that, but your language on the topic is pretty sloppy.  When you say that many of the anti-amnesty people are racist, how do you think it will sound to the anti-amnesty regular posters here who understandably have a thin skin about the constant accusations of racism they hear?  Accusations of racism have become the standard way of arguing this issue, and people are rightly angry about that.

On the flip side, sure, there are some people who oppose amnesty for racist reasons, and there are plenty more people who are not racist but are very tone deaf about how they sound (e.g. that embarrassing "Juan McCain" crap which makes me wince).

(FYI, I'm not even blanket anti-amnesty; my views are a little more complicated than that.)

419 weasel,

How many times have we debated your anti-Mormon bigotry and your idiotic open border ideas?  We've been there and done that. Don't pretend we haven't.

The fact is, you don't debate, you pontificate. You either flat out accuse people of bigotry (which is rich coming from you) or paint with so broad a brush that there's a very good reason people think you are talking about them.

Remember this ditty of yours?

And the people who were against civil rights and in favor of Jim Crow laws were just for state's rights and enforcing the law. But they were on the wrong side of history, and just because its law doesn't make it moral, or right, and it certainly doesn't mean it will stand for all time. In fact, it won't stand for much longer.

Amnesty is coming, more lenient, fair and timely paths to citizenship are coming, and both party's support it.

You can rail at me all you like, but get used to losing. You are on the wrong side of demographics, history and, IMHO, the decent, America thing to do, which is welcome immigrants, who make the country richer.

Every wave of immigration has changed the culture and the face of the country. Just because you don't happen to like Hispanic culture doesn't mean it won't change the country, and for the good.

How can one debate with someone who thinks enforcing border security is the same as supporting Jim Crowe laws?

So, I am done 'debating' with you. Been there, done that. It was a waste of time. I'll stick to snarking at you.

420 Hey, Ace, I'm here mainly for the vile pornographic crap.

421 I'm  pro immigration. Always have been. Having said that, I'm fairly rabid  on the border security side of the illegal immigration argument. As a sovereign nation, we get to pick and choose who gets to be a citizen or resident. My problem with amnesty is that it rewards bad behavior. I'm not saying all those folks from south of the border are evil. They aren't. But they are here illegally. When you break the law, don't be suprised when you get caught and punished. I feel the same no matter where you come from or what your ethnicity. For that matter, I don't care what law we are talking about. Just because you don't like a law doesn't mean you can break it.

422

I am baffled that certain individuals in this thread remain incapable of comprehending the nature of free speech. It involves not being interfered with in the expression of one's ideas. It does not involve a positive duty on Ace's part to provide you a forum in which to voice your views, particularly when they are as vile as some of the ones I'ves stumbled upon in a few of these comment threads.

In fact, in asking his readership to remain civil should they choose to contribute to a discussion on his site, Ace is exercising his right to the ownership and enjoyment of private property. And make no mistake: this website is very much Ace's property.

You've got a fantastic blog here, Ace. I've been a reader for several years. Your continued attempts to keep the level of discourse civilized are admirable. It's an uphill battle, I'm sure. But take heart. Casual observation has led me to conclude that much of your readership is, if not polite, then at the very least well-intentioned.

423 heh, I'll take that as an admission that you don't have a credible answer for my question, and that you are in fact, a hypocrite, since you keep deleting the comment instead of answering it.

424 docweasel,

Don't even fucking think about lying like that. I haven't touched any of your comments.

I am more than happy to let your idiocy speak for itself.

425 Someone keeps deleting my comments asking why condemning Rev. Wright's theology is not bigotry, but condeming Mormonism is, and why finding Obama's theology abhorrent makes him unsuitable for the presidency is not bigotry, but me doing the exact same thing with Romney is.

If you're not doing it, someone else on the blog is. I've posted it 3 times, I see it there, then its gone.

426 docweasel,

Well perhaps you should have a fucking clue before you accuse someone of doing something like that.

Every time I have deleted a comment (which I think is all of 2 or 3 times and all in the last few days) I immediately email Ace with the a copy of it in case he doesn't want it deleted. So far he hasn't has a problem with that. I didn't expect he would in as much as they each had racial slurs and one had a call to violence.

Trust me, your little rantings don't rate that much effort.

427 Well then you have a rogue moderator.

And you still haven't answered the question of why you think you have the right to call ME a bigot, but you have np with people condemning Wright for basically the same thing. And since Romney is long gone from the election and never broke about 20% nationally, and Obama is either tied or leads in national polling, a lot more people had problems with Romney's theology than Wright's.

428 Boss,

if you feel you have to take actions such as you have.  Well it's your blog.  you can take your ball and go home anytime you want.  and that is NOT a slam against you.  If someone is breaking the rules, and not following the guidelines of your blog, you have every right to delete what you want.  bravo sir.

Mark

429 I have no interest in answering your questions. It has nothing to do with the fact I think you are an ass.

I thought you were a religious bigot and an ass long before I ever heard of Obama's pastor. One has nothing to do with the other.

430 Yeah, but do you think those who criticize Wright are bigots? If you don't, I don't give a shit if you think I'm an ass or not: I think you're a hypocrite who bases his morality on political expediency. I don't see you calling anyone who criticizes black liberation theology a bigot, so you're opinion doesn't matter much to me, you're better off sticking to snark than serious debate (not that you've made any that I've seen, you just call me names and make wiseass remarks instead of addressing the question.

431 weasel,

What the fuck does Wright have to do with the shit you said about Romney and anti-amnesty types months before any of us heard of the guy?

I understand you want us to ignore you are a religious bigot and compared pro-border enforcement types to those who supported Jim Crowe laws but I am not going to fall for you ass attempts to perform a Jedi mind trick.

What I may think of Rev. Wright or those who criticize him, has nothing to do with the statements you've been making here for the last few months or so and my contempt for you.

I think we should call this the Obama Defense. When confronted with Wright's statements, Obama suddenly decided we needed a national conversation on race. When you are confronted, again, for your religious bigotry, you decided I need to talk about Wright and those who criticize him.

Nice try*.

(Andy by 'nice try' I really mean, 'lame ass attempt to avoid dealing with your idiocy')

432

I have never altered or deleted one of your comments docweasel.

I have felt painted by your broad brush.

I have felt you impugning motivation upon my positions regarding "amnesty".  If that's a sloppy read of your words, well you can clear it up since you're still commenting.  I myself am an "immigrant" to Texas.  We showed up in 1969.   From Alabama.

 

433 XBradTC:

Thanks for cordial comment you made after I left last night. I made the right decision to leave when I did.

Today, despite some of the most freakish spring weather I've ever seen in Oregon, I shot the best 18 hole round of my 2 years at this infuriating game. It was snowing and hailing as I teed off on the first hole and I only managed a 7 on that par 4, but I went on to shoot 46 on the front and 52 on the back.

I broke 100 for the very first time and beat my previous best by EIGHT STROKES.

Today, I love this game. And that's all that matters. Politics sucks and I'd much rather be scrambling for bogey and a par here and there.

I feel like the guy in the fedex hole-in-one commercial.

I still stand by every thing I said originally, but what I said originally is no longer here and I don't care I'm just telling everyone I broke 100 and 90 is next. Woohoo.

434 Weasel #409 "Dave, lauraw, Brad and whoever else: Please link me to where I accused any of you directly of being racists."

Doc, (you not doing it to me personally) ain't the same as (you not doing it).

435 Doc, go away.  You're a fucking troll and I'm playing again with the idea of banning you just because it would give me pleasure, and I enjoy pleasure.

436

Docweasel....he of the foregone conclusion. The gates are gonna open and all those sympathizes with will be forgiven for their crimes.

In the meantime, his big stick is the racist card if you don't believe people who have commited crimes should be resolved and rewarded.

Who cares what this guy thinks? He is just another guy with an agenda.

I live in Arizona and will keep agitating my legislators to make illegals follow the same rules I have to in regards to false documents and unlawful entry.

Maybe I could get the weasel a lunch with Sheriff Arpaio.

 

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