More On Iranian Speedboats: A Heartbeat" Away From Being Blown To Hell

Not sure if this snippet was mentioned in Dave's post.

he standoff between three U.S. Navy ships and five Iranian speedboats in the Strait of Hormuz Sunday was one step away from turning violent.
"They were a heartbeat from being blown up," a Pentagon official, speaking of the Iranians, told ABC News.
According to the Navy intelligence report on the incident, the Iranians radioed, "I am coming at you. You will blow up in a couple of minutes."
The Navy ships radioed back, presumably transmitting a warning. All three ships also engaged in "evasive action," and according to senior Pentagon officials, the "prepare-to-fire" order had been given and the gun stations manned.
Pentagon officials today expressed surprise the Navy ships allowed at least one of the Iranian speedboats to get so close -- just 200 yards away -- without firing.

From dri, Iran's swarming tactics explained. A bit obvious, mostly decent reading.

Revolutionary Shiite values such as stoic endurance and devotion to the cause are granted equal, if not superior, status to the traditional military principles of mission accomplishment and the achievement of a military objective. According to this doctrine, the mere act of fighting, exerting maximum effort, and fulfilling one’s religious (and national) duty to the fullest is an end in itself. The result or outcome is of secondary importance. For adherents, martyrdom is a welcome prospect. A readiness to die, however, is not considered a substitute for lethality and effectiveness. On the contrary, the Iranian concept of Alavi/Ashurai warfare relies not just on spiritual commitment, but also on high-tech weaponry and innovative tactics—a combination employed to great effect on the ground in southern Lebanon by Iran’s protege, the Lebanese Shiite Hizballah, in its war with Israel this summer.
The most prominent expression of this doctrine was a series of naval battles with the U.S. Navy in April 1988. These took place during the final phases of the Iran-Iraq War, when hopelessly outclassed Iranian forces battled U.S. naval units in the Persian Gulf. Iran incurred heavy losses in the process. The experience taught Iran that large naval vessels are vulnerable to air and missile attacks, confirmed the efficacy of small boat operations, and spurred interest in missile-armed fast-attack craft. It also allowed Iran to expand the use of swarming tactics that form the foundation of its current approach to asymmetric naval warfare.
Naval Swarming Tactics
Swarming tactics are not new; they have been practiced by land armies for thousands of years. Such tactics require light, mobile forces with substantial striking power, capable of rapidly concentrating to attack an enemy from multiple directions and then rapidly dispersing.
Iranian naval swarming tactics focus on surprising and isolating the enemy’s forces and preventing their reinforcement or resupply, thereby shattering the enemy’s morale and will to fight. Iran has practiced both mass and dispersed swarming tactics. The former employs mass formations of hundreds of lightly armed and agile small boats that set off from different bases, then converge from different directions to attack a target or group of targets. The latter uses a small number of highly agile missile or torpedo attack craft that set off on their own, from geographically dispersed and concealed locations, and then converge to attack a single target or set of targets (such as a tanker convoy). The dispersed swarming tactic is much more difficult to detect and repel because the attacker never operates in mass formations.

...
In wartime, Iranian naval forces would seek to close the Strait of Hormuz and destroy enemy forces bottled up in the Persian Gulf; therefore speed and surprise would be key. Iranian naval forces would seek to identify and attack the enemy’s centers of gravity as quickly as possible and inflict maximum losses before contact with subordinate units were lost as a result of enemy counterattacks. Geography is Iran’s ally. Because of the proximity of major shipping routes to the country’s largely mountainous 2,000-kilometer coastline, Iranian naval elements can sortie from their bases and attack enemy ships with little advance warning. Meanwhile, shore-based antiship missiles can engage targets almost anywhere in the Persian Gulf and the Gulf of Oman.

Posted by: Ace at 05:05 PM

Comments

1 Why is this playing in my brain?:

"Neener neener neener! Yer momma wears army boots! PHHHHHHHHT!"

"BANG"

"Hey - YOU SHOT ME!..."

"Goddamn right. Now fuck off before I do it again."

Posted by: mojo at January 07, 2008 05:12 PM (g1cNf)

2
Yeah, they are playing with us. But if they cross the line in doing so -- blow them the fk away. Remember the Cole!

Posted by: Chop Suey Palace at January 07, 2008 05:13 PM (ylMt0)

3 This business will get out of control. It will get out of control and we'll be lucky to live through it.

Posted by: Adm. Painter (aka Teh Fred) at January 07, 2008 05:13 PM (hlYel)

4 Pentagon officials today expressed surprise the Navy ships allowed at least one of the Iranian speedboats to get so close -- just 200 yards away -- without firing.

"You have failed me for the last time, Admiral."

Posted by: lmg at January 07, 2008 05:14 PM (slf9T)

Read some of the comments under the story. There's a tool calling himself Eric that is quite a prize. "200 yards isn't threatening." Maybe not with spitballs but even a slingshot can shoot that far.

"Guns don't kill people. George Bush kills people." - Eric

Posted by: Gunslinger at January 07, 2008 05:17 PM (Zi+FQ)

Iran's Foreign Ministry said Monday that a confrontation between Iranian boats and U.S. Navy ships in the Persian Gulf over the weekend was "something normal" and was resolved. It suggested the Iranian boats had not recognized the U.S. vessels.

--Isn't that nice?

Posted by: Jay at January 07, 2008 05:41 PM (BNlV7)

7 I would be willing to bet that if I pointed a rifle at Eric from 200 yards away, he would feel threatened, then call the police, and start a movement to revoke the 2nd amendment.

Posted by: Darth Randall at January 07, 2008 05:46 PM (oLULt)

8 Does Iran know about these wondrous inventions called "Submarines"?

Posted by: Techie at January 07, 2008 05:51 PM (AV8Z6)

9 "Geography is Iran’s ally. Because of the proximity of major shipping routes to the country’s largely mountainous 2,000-kilometer coastline, Iranian naval elements can sortie from their bases and attack enemy ships with little advance warning."

I don't know too much about naval warfare, so maybe somebody else can put me some fuckin' knowledge here: I've seen satellite images of the Strait of Hormuz, and the coast may be mountainous but it ain't exactly the Norwegian fjords we're dealing with there. The strait is 21 miles wide at its narrowest point, and 40-50 miles wide elsewhere, which is a few times bigger than the San Francisco Bay or Lake Tahoe, for instance, but it's still not that huge an area to monitor, and we have pretty damn good air and satellite surveillance capabilities, so how could a naval group not have advance warning of a swarm attack by small Iranian boats?

Posted by: Alex at January 07, 2008 05:52 PM (dSFRJ)

10 I really don't get how the new Iranian naval doctrine is supposed to work. "It will be just like Hezbollah fighting the Israelis! Except instead of heavily fortified positions, human shields, and controlled propaganda opportunities, we'll have...uhm...fish."

Posted by: bgates at January 07, 2008 05:57 PM (z6drm)

11 This had two purposes. One was to probe how close you can get to an American formation. The other was to desensitize Naval officers to being buzzed so that they don't destroy the boat carrying the 40s technology nuke before it can get close enough to be effective.

Posted by: Phelps at January 07, 2008 06:02 PM (ovqhx)

12 You have to have something to swarm with. Once the shooting starts, the destroyers (and they dont call them that for nuttin') not to mention the entire navy in that area is going to destroy anything the Iranians have that can float. The anti-ship missiles are the real threat.

Posted by: Steve #2 at January 07, 2008 06:06 PM (uIMqK)

13 Alex,

I am not a naval officer but that shouldn't stop me from pretending on the internets.

First 21 miles isn't all the big when you have missiles being aimed at you.

Second, how much of that 21 miles is navigatable? Those big Navy ships aren't exactly shallow draft.

Third, that maybe a lot of sea room for a small boat but not for a Carrier Strike Group or an Amphibious Expeditionary Group. Some of those ships don't turn all that fast and it's not a lot of maneuvering room for a group of ships. You can see the Navy order of battle here.

As for small boats sneaking up, everything I've read about the area is that it's lousy with small craft, mostly small dhows. It's easy to imagine some small speed boats playing possum with the slow locals and then cracking on to attack.

Posted by: DrewM. at January 07, 2008 06:10 PM (hlYel)

14 Iran wouldn't waste a nuke on a naval fleet, not knowing that every boomer in the Eastern hemisphere has them in their targeting computers.

Posted by: Techie at January 07, 2008 06:24 PM (AV8Z6)

15 Iran has practiced both mass and dispersed swarming tactics. The former employs mass formations of hundreds of lightly armed and agile small boats that set off from different bases, then converge from different directions to attack a target or group of targets. The latter uses a small number of highly agile missile or torpedo attack craft that set off on their own, from geographically dispersed and concealed locations, and then converge to attack a single target or set of targets (such as a tanker convoy).

Sounds like something that might be best handled by an A-10. Low and slow and fully of depleted uranium death.

Hell, with a Zodiac you wouldn't even need depleted uranium. Old fashioned lead would work just as well.

Posted by: DelD at January 07, 2008 06:28 PM (MNyRf)

They might try but "swarming" would be just another outdated tactic that would prove disasterous for the Iranians, just like their futile mass infantry attacks against entrenched Iraqui positions during the Iran/Iraq war.

In the previous Iran/US engagement Cobra gunships with tow missiles were used to counter the small highly manuverable Iranian gunboats. No ship can move faster than a guided missile. That was in the 80s, our current naval and air capabilities are many times more advanced than those days.

They have tipped their hand. How much you want to bet we are now actively monitoring their naval bases. If Iranian gun/missile boats do venture out for a swarming attack they would be destroyed en mass.

Posted by: canuk at January 07, 2008 06:47 PM (vPj5M)

You gotta use the right tool for the right job. Sure, large boats are more vulnerable to anti-ship missiles, those little speed boats can't defend themselves against helicopters. A few bursts from the minigun and that's all she wrote.

Besides which, there's a new laser-guided version of the standard 2.75 in rocket. Virtually every jet and helicopter in the US military can carry those babies. I wouldn't waste a harpoon on a speedboat, but a 2.75 in rocket? Ka-boom.

If the Iranians actually started shooting, there'd be a lot of Iranian-flavored shark food in the water within a few minutes. Not to mention we'd destroy anything they have that floats - warships, fishing boats, intertubes...

Posted by: Eric (not that Eric) at January 07, 2008 07:10 PM (eSqCK)

200 yards?!! WTF?!

Remember the Stark?

http://www.navybook.com/nohigherhonor/pic-stark.shtml

that was from 22 Miles!

Posted by: Terry at January 07, 2008 07:20 PM (Y6vT5)

The Iranians have tested and stock the Chinese made C-701 anti-ship missile. The basic unit weights about 220 pounds and has around a 60 pound armor piercing warhead. It wouldn’t take a very large boat to house and launch something like this. The next time those fools start playing games with speedboats I hope our guys blow them straight to hell.

Posted by: Murph at January 07, 2008 07:26 PM (Dw2sU)

20 5 Rag boats??

UPDATE:

5-inch guns, missiles, airstrikes... overkill and beaucoup bucks to send a bathtub to the bottom...

(Not that there is such a thing as overkill when it comes to crushing your enemies, seeing them driven before you, and hearing the lamentations of their women.)

For this job, all you need is a FEW Jarheads or Squids that know how to hit the broadside of a barn with a .50 and a few hundred HE rounds.

BOOMBOOMBOOMBOOMBOOM!!! gurgle, gurgle.... Sea going raghead, say hello to Davy Jones. And BTW, good luck with the virgins thing, they're all half fish down there.

Posted by: MOMinuteman at January 07, 2008 07:37 PM (vyH0P)

Oh yeah, and if I recall correctly after the Cole incident most of our ships were retrofitted with .50 cals. But that's lettin' 'em get a little close. Did I mention surface-to-air missiles have a surface-to-surface mode, as does Phalanx?

The only way the "swarming" thing would work is if the Iranians were allowed to get too close because of ROE. Eh, like 200 meters. Someone should lose his job over that, by the way.

Posted by: Eric at January 07, 2008 08:02 PM (eSqCK)

Terry,

Yeah, that was 22 miles, but it was air-launched. And they only managed to get missiles off because we weren't expecting an attack from Iraqi jets at that time. If those had been Iranian jets they'd have both been part of a reef before they got to that range.

Posted by: Eric at January 07, 2008 08:05 PM (eSqCK)

23 Something in that discussion of swarm tactics sounds screwy -- they swarm a ship to "cut it off from resupply" -- huh? Even small Navy vessels are pretty much self-sufficient for days at a time. If the swarm is trying to lay siege to a ship that just gives the Navy gunners more time to sink them. And even supply vessels have light armament more than equal to the task of fighting off small boats.

This all smacks of propaganda. Iran's navy is a bunch of crappy little boats, so they've managed to sucker some Western journalists into repeating their line that it's really a swift elite striking force, not a bunch of crappy little boats.

Posted by: Trimegistus at January 07, 2008 08:08 PM (WQ6n/)

24 'Swarming tactics' aren't anything new in naval history. The idea of using hordes of small, cheap, maneuverable boats against full-size warships has been tried before, notably in the Gunboat War of 1807-1814 (Britain vs. Denmark). The Danes -- good sailors despite being filthy Scandis -- had all those same 'advantages' for their little gunboats that the Iranians claim, but the Royal Navy taught them the hard and bloody way why serious navies use serious warships.

Posted by: BKWillis at January 07, 2008 08:13 PM (tXERw)

25 warships, fishing boats, intertubes...

Let's crash their networks! With a missile!

Posted by: MegaTroopX at January 07, 2008 08:27 PM (AKtp8)

PTs were employed effectively in WWII as "softeners". Cut em and run, give your big guns a better shot.

If you don't have a big gun backing you up, you're just playing chicken with a Spruance-class. And that is a fool's errand.

Posted by: Dave in Texas at January 07, 2008 08:27 PM (FXakj)

27 A swarm of 50 small craft w/ RPGs threaten a destroyer?

No problem.

Put Aegis in automatic mode, grab some popcorn and watch the show.

But don't take too long getting popcorn, the show won't last long.

Posted by: Hugh Jass PhD at January 07, 2008 08:53 PM (RLBRw)

28 Yes, I agree that the air launched missiles are different... I'm just saying... 200 yards? Brett Favre could Throw a bomb half that distance!

Posted by: Terry at January 07, 2008 09:23 PM (sy9fr)

29 If were not going to blow these guys to hell, we ought to at least harass them for a change. I think the answer is: pork mortars. When the hams start raining down and the bacon shrapnel starts flying maybe these dumbasses will pull back out of pig-flingin range.

Posted by: right at January 07, 2008 10:44 PM (EquV1)

30 we're

Posted by: right at January 07, 2008 10:46 PM (EquV1)

Terry,

Chill out.

In the "now it can be told" dep't, let me introduce you to 400HZ power. That's what the Navy uses to run its fire control equipment (like, oh, say the CIWS(look it up under Phalanx)).

The Perry-class frigates (like the Stark) were originally designed for Atlantic Ocean convoy escort, and had a motor/generator set that converted 60Hz to 400Hz. It was salt water cooled and tripped off the line when the surrounding water got much hotter than 90F or so (guess how hot the Persian Gulf gets?). The Stark got backshot because 400 Hz power was off-line at the time she was struck

Needless to say, they were retrofitted with static convertors on the QT while everyone acted like it was the crew's fault so as not to expose a design flaw.

Anyone shooting a missile at a USN vessel today will enjoy the debris show when CIWS obliterates it. (When CIWS was originally introduced it was so fast that it would not destroy a missile, but also some of the bigger pieces before they hit the water.) Anyone attempting to ram a USN vessel will be eating at least a 76 mm gun shell that will absolutely ruin your patrol boat day. Anyone trying to board a USN vessel will find out just how good a shotgun the Remington 870 is in the hands of bored, pissed-off sailors.

Again, I say, relax.

Posted by: Stephen at January 07, 2008 10:58 PM (t6i5I)

32 ...not ONLY destroy a missile... *eep*

Posted by: Stephen at January 07, 2008 11:00 PM (t6i5I)

33 Stephen,

You sound like you might be familiar with the SLQ-32.

oh, and for the record... this Is relaxed.

*heh*

Posted by: Terry at January 07, 2008 11:03 PM (sy9fr)

Making threats on the radio is the same as throwing the first punch. We're obligated to respond.

Posted by: Cincinnatus at January 08, 2008 01:07 PM (tun6e)

35 This time we let them get within 200yds. Iran may think they are sensitizing us. Perhaps instead we are sensitizing them, letting them think we will let them get this close again, causing them to miscalculate. Perhaps next time at 5000yds they get turned into flaming swiss cheese.

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